The president of People With Disability Australia, Craig Wallace, says the changes will not help disabled people into the workforce because there are no guaranteed jobs.

Mr Wallace says disabled people will instead be forced onto the New Start allowance, which will reduce their standard of living.

"Reassessing people without guaranteed jobs for them to go to will mean that people are going onto the New Start allowance, which is around $160 less a week," he said.

Wow! That's a real shocker. Those now paying rent or a mortgage will soon be living on the streets as part of the homeless and destitute, gathered around the soup kitchens in the seedy part of every city and town.

It's all part of the plan to Americanise Australian society so that we have as big an impoverished under-class as they do, percentage-wise, with all the criminality and drug-culture that this gives rise to.

'One-Term Tony' is looking increasingly like he'll end up as little more than a brief footnote in the history books.

Even Backdoor Bob would have more chance of being re-elected than Tony at the moment.

link

A penny pinching mean spirited policy from the conservatives. I reckon many previous conservatives voters will not make the same mistake twice.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

Wow! That's a real shocker. Those now paying rent or a mortgage will soon be living on the streets as part of the homeless and destitute, gathered around the soup kitchens in the seedy part of every city and town. It's all part of the plan to Americanise Australian society so that we have as big an impoverished under-class as they do, percentage-wise, with all the criminality and drug-culture that this gives rise to.

Society in chaos, that's the way they planned it. Destitute and homeless people, a beaten down population is easy to control.

BOTR!!!

Back in the 50's in the UK virtually every person who was disabled both physically or mentally went off to work in Sheltered Workshops.

They were collected at home and 'bussed' there, and collected after work.

No one thought twice about it.

Every city and town had its Sheltered Workshops. Instead of being isolated at home and thinking themselves to be social pariahs, they had the respect of everyone for 'doing their bit' to support themselves, and they themselves enjoyed a social life and a healthy self-esteem that they would otherwise never have had.

The whole thing worked because of the 'ubiquitous' Sheltered Workshops.

So ... where are Abbott's Sheltered Workshops? (Apart from the one in Canberra ... )

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:39am:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:32am: Wow! That's a real shocker. Those now paying rent or a mortgage will soon be living on the streets as part of the homeless and destitute, gathered around the soup kitchens in the seedy part of every city and town. It's all part of the plan to Americanise Australian society so that we have as big an impoverished under-class as they do, percentage-wise, with all the criminality and drug-culture that this gives rise to. Society in chaos, that's the way they planned it. Destitute and homeless people, a beaten down population is easy to control. BOTR!!!

Don't be stupid. Mass unrest is not easy to control; hence why there is unrest to begin with. Massive unemployment is a recipe for disaster.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:57am:

Back in the 50's in the UK virtually every person who was disabled both physically or mentally went off to work in Sheltered Workshops. They were collected at home and 'bussed' there, and collected after work. No one thought twice about it. Every city and town had its Sheltered Workshops. Instead of being isolated at home and thinking themselves to be social pariahs, they had the respect of everyone for 'doing their bit' to support themselves, and they themselves enjoyed a social life and a healthy self-esteem that they would otherwise never have had. The whole thing worked because of the 'ubiquitous' Sheltered Workshops.

They still do in my regional area, but very few opportunities, only the recycling depot as far as I know, there must be a waiting list a mile long, there used to be heaps of places that allowed them to do some productive work. See how Greed Inc has railroaded all those great schemes, we're going backwards in many ways.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

They still do in my regional area, but very few opportunities, only the recycling depot as far as I know, there must be a waiting list a mile long, there used to be heaps of places that allowed them to do some productive work. See how Greed Inc has railroaded all those great schemes, we're going backwards in many ways.

I suspect the sheltered workshops began to disappear when everything started being Made in China.

The sheltered workshops did mostly packing jobs, like putting so many clothes pegs into little cellophane bags which someone would then seal with a heat-sealer press.

Lots of jobs like that where the workers would sit at long tables, with music in the background, and be organised by supervisors.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:57am: Back in the 50's in the UK virtually every person who was disabled both physically or mentally went off to work in Sheltered Workshops. They were collected at home and 'bussed' there, and collected after work. No one thought twice about it. Every city and town had its Sheltered Workshops. Instead of being isolated at home and thinking themselves to be social pariahs, they had the respect of everyone for 'doing their bit' to support themselves, and they themselves enjoyed a social life and a healthy self-esteem that they would otherwise never have had. The whole thing worked because of the 'ubiquitous' Sheltered Workshops. They still do in my regional area, but very few opportunities, only the recycling depot as far as I know, there must be a waiting list a mile long, there used to be heaps of places that allowed them to do some productive work. See how Greed Inc has railroaded all those great schemes, we're going backwards in many ways.

What about fruit picking ? - you don't need a degree to do that.

I have heard of crops rotting on the vine due to lack of workers.

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:09am:

What about fruit picking ? - you don't need a degree to do that. I have heard of crops rotting on the vine due to lack of workers.

We're talking about the mentally and physically disabled here.

The mentally disabled would eat themselves sick, while the physically disabled would fall off the 'A'-ladders used to pick the orchard fruits.

8-)

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:12am:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 10:09am: What about fruit picking ? - you don't need a degree to do that. I have heard of crops rotting on the vine due to lack of workers. We're talking about the mentally and physically disabled here. The mentally disabled would eat themselves sick, while the physically disabled would fall off the 'A'-ladders used to pick the orchard fruits. 8-)

You have made wild assumptions.

this is forgiven

according to the divine plan

namaste

Yep - based on the backyard wisdom that there are all these 'bludgers' out there copping Disability for nothing.

Do you reckon any of the same name-callers would say that about our Veteran community and those in it on pensions?

They wouldn't have the guts.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Yep - based on the backyard wisdom that there are all these 'bludgers' out there copping Disability for nothing. Do you reckon any of the same name-callers would say that about our Veteran community and those in it on pensions? They wouldn't have the guts.

At a very conservative guess I'd say at least 10% on DSP are fraudsters. Maybe more.

And why? Because they broadened the scope to include 'back-ache', 'depression', etc. ~ both conditions that are highly exploitable if you can find a doctor to sign you off on it.

There are over 8,000 ethnic-Australians living 'back home' overseas who are in receipt of the DSP ... and if more than half of them are not on a rort ~ I'll eat my hat.

Bullshit 'compo' rorts and DSP fraud have been a cottage industry ever since the factories and building sites filled up with 'New Australians' from the mid-50's.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 12:04pm: Yep - based on the backyard wisdom that there are all these 'bludgers' out there copping Disability for nothing. Do you reckon any of the same name-callers would say that about our Veteran community and those in it on pensions? They wouldn't have the guts. At a very conservative guess I'd say at least 10% on DSP are fraudsters. Maybe more. And why? Because they broadened the scope to include 'back-ache', 'depression', etc. ~ both conditions that are highly exploitable if you can find a doctor to sign you off on it. There are over 8,000 ethnic-Australians living 'back home' overseas who are in receipt of the DSP ... and if more than half of them are not on a rort ~ I'll eat my hat. Bullshit 'compo' rorts and DSP fraud have been a cottage industry ever since the factories and building sites filled up with 'New Australians' from the mid-50's.

Your racism is forgiven.

namaste

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:57am: Back in the 50's in the UK virtually every person who was disabled both physically or mentally went off to work in Sheltered Workshops. They were collected at home and 'bussed' there, and collected after work. No one thought twice about it. Every city and town had its Sheltered Workshops. Instead of being isolated at home and thinking themselves to be social pariahs, they had the respect of everyone for 'doing their bit' to support themselves, and they themselves enjoyed a social life and a healthy self-esteem that they would otherwise never have had. The whole thing worked because of the 'ubiquitous' Sheltered Workshops. They still do in my regional area, but very few opportunities, only the recycling depot as far as I know, there must be a waiting list a mile long, there used to be heaps of places that allowed them to do some productive work. See how Greed Inc has railroaded all those great schemes, we're going backwards in many ways.

Same in my neck of the woods.

And apparently they aren't paid very much for the work, either.

As I understand it, the retesting of DSP claimants is going to be limited to those under 35. This is all still speculation of course.

If you've got a weak stomach like Bobby, shut your ears now.
It is well known that there is a plague of false DSP claims among the middle eastern community, BUT many if not most of these will be in the age group above 35. So how is this going to help?

Oh, and how do they make false claims? They have got doctors in their pocket, either through family ties, bribes or threats.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 12:04pm: Yep - based on the backyard wisdom that there are all these 'bludgers' out there copping Disability for nothing. Do you reckon any of the same name-callers would say that about our Veteran community and those in it on pensions? They wouldn't have the guts. At a very conservative guess I'd say at least 10% on DSP are fraudsters. Maybe more. And why? Because they broadened the scope to include 'back-ache', 'depression', etc. ~ both conditions that are highly exploitable if you can find a doctor to sign you off on it. There are over 8,000 ethnic-Australians living 'back home' overseas who are in receipt of the DSP ... and if more than half of them are not on a rort ~ I'll eat my hat. Bullshit 'compo' rorts and DSP fraud have been a cottage industry ever since the factories and building sites filled up with 'New Australians' from the mid-50's.

I'd say more like 2 or 3%. If that.

And no, it's not as simple as turning up with a certificate from a 'friendly' doctor, and hasn't been for a long time.

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be.

But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated
and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for
them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

Your racism is forgiven. namaste

Thank you, Bobby. I'll be able to sleep tonight.  8-)

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:09am:

What about fruit picking ? - you don't need a degree to do that.

Nobody should be picking on fruits. Homophobia is a thing of the past.

Kat wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be. But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these  professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

bogarde73 wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:16pm:

As I understand it, the retesting of DSP claimants is going to be limited to those under 35. This is all still speculation of course. If you've got a weak stomach like Bobby, shut your ears now. It is well known that there is a plague of false DSP claims among the middle eastern community, BUT many if not most of these will be in the age group above 35. So how is this going to help?

Very good point.


bogarde73 wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:16pm:

Oh, and how do they make false claims? They have got doctors in their pocket, either through family ties, bribes or threats.

... Or simply because the doctors don't want themselves and their families to be ostracised from their community for being 'unhelpful'.

The magic figure '35' makes no sense unless it's not to jeopardise the ethnic vote among the aging DSP rorters, here and overseas.

It makes no sense that at 36 ... 46 ... 56 ... 64 ... DSP claimants who are judged able to work ~ don't have to. I was 65 when they finally said I didn't have to work any more.

Extraordinary contradictions and devious shenanigans going on here.

Not hard to understand, minimise the outrage by limiting it to young people then when the system is firmly in place remove the age barrier. Good strategy.

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 3:19pm: I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be. But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution. simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these  professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

Only the day before yesterday I walked down my main street and saw all the Usual Suspect DSP rorters partying as usual in the local cafes. I've seen the same score of faces for years.

I call them The Untouchables. I don't think one of them is an ethnic. I would quite literally pay them $20 to hear their story ~ how in God's name they've managed to avoid work for all these years.

My guess is ...

1) 'Depression'
2) 'Bi-Polar Disorder'
3) 'Alcoholic' (although I've never seen any of them drunk).
4) 'Prone to self-harm'.
5) 'Chronic back pain'
 

The only people who should be on disability pensions are those confined to wheelchairs. if Abbott keeps this up I  might be forced to vote for him next election.

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 3:19pm: I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be. But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution. simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these  professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

Ian - I have a disability parking sticker..... I used to cover miles on foot by day and night.... now the requirement is the ability to cover a certain number of metres without developing pain etc....

I develop pain and shortness of breath after about twenty metres at fast walk.... and that could be chest pain or pain from any number of injuries.... pain is a constant only moderated by my personal guts... I LOOK good when I leap from the car, but I'm a bloke - I will not show pain unless it is near death....

Again - like getting that pension at all, it is NOT as simple as some make it sound and many with serious arthritic problems have good days and bad days, same as spinal injuries of which I have three...

Far easier for the tabloid media to cherry pick the one good day out of four or five and say "this person is on disability!"

Oh - and I'm on aged pension in a month, and I've already made it clear to my support team that, despite my disabilities (fifteen), I would prefer to work full-time for two-three years more.... IF I can get it.

After that I have ongoing plans... but never you mind - it's MY business venture....

ALSO (Sprache Zarathustra?) - I heard on the wahless that the idea was to look at the YOUNGER recipients of DSP for re-training etc... MIGHT be a chance for some in that, and I'm certain that many would be happy to accept a full-time job if they could get one.

One of our Colonel C'Link lasses has terrible spinal injuries from a horse accident - she works full-time and more power to her.

             I'm on the dis'p too, have been for 10years, and I too won't let it show if I can avoid it, not from pride really, I just get sick of all the false sympathy, when you know damn well they're not interested at all.
            I cant walk 10ft before my hip and knee(broken in a m/c accident 35yrs ago) begin to scream at me, I need a cane in winter. I do not have a parking ticket because I know how many more there are out there who need those spots more than me, that IS a matter of pride I suppose.            
        My spine was fractured in four places and,well basically I smashed my entire right side and a fair bit of the left, but I've worked ever since my recovery rather than go on the P', I worked at the Sallies once I was on it and had it suspended, it wasn't physical work but I felt guilty getting it while I could still work.
              Now I can't, it's that simple, but if you saw me you might wonder why I'm on it, pain isn't readily visible you know,  and I refuse to give in to it as much as I can.
      My point is that just because YOU can't see any obvious disability it doesn't mean there isn't one.
      Considering the hoops most have to jump through to get on it I doubt there's that many fakers, a simple Doc's certificate is only enough to put in an application, there's a lot more to it after that.
       Calling out FAKER and claiming there's a lot is the same, roughly, as calling the unemployed all bludgers, entirely unsupportable in reality.

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 3:19pm: I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be. But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution. simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these  professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

And there's the thing... they appear to be perfectly able-bodied.

But appearances can be, and often are, deceptive. Yes, it's fairly obvious if one has limbs missing or is in
a cast.

But there are more invisible disabilities than visible ones. Can you 'see' cancer? Or MS? A tumour? PTSD?
A bad heart or liver? Osteoporosis? Can you 'see' mental illnesses such as depression, schizophrenia, bi-
polarism?  Minor brain damage or nerve damage due to an accident?

Of course not! But are these people less disabled (or not disabled at all) simply because you can't 'see'
the disability?

Again, of course not.

I myself have a partial disability (not bad enough to justify the DSP, and no, I've never tried to claim it) in
that I have serious issues with my knees due to old sporting injuries compounded by a motorcycle accident
when I was in my 20s. It's pretty easy to spot IF you know me well, but you couldn't tell just by watching
me get out of a car. And yes, it does have an effect on what type of work I can do (tiling floors kills me).

To claim that someone is pulling a rort simply because they don't appear disabled is a bit silly,
really. It's like the popular but erroneous view, held by one or two here, that if you are on the dole it means
you have never worked or looked for work, and will never work or look for work.  Or that all single mums
have five kids to five guys and only do it for the SP benefit and the baby bonus. Doesn't matter that the facts
don't bear the claims out. Of course these people exist, but their numbers are miniscule in comparison to
genuine recips. They are by no means representative of every DSP recip, dole recip or single-mum.

Your response to my post, taken together with some of the other comments I see here, only appear to
reinforce what I said above concerning the de-sensitisation of Joe Public to measures savaging DSP/dole
recips/single mums by tarring them all with the 'unworthy' tag, and that it is working, and working well.
People seem to be all too willing to believe that most are bludging or rorting, and that none are deserving
at all.

And God help anyone who tries to convince them otherwise, they'll just be tossed into the stereotype mix
as well, regardless.

austranger wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

I'm on the dis'p too, have been for 10years, and I too won't let it show if I can avoid it, not from pride really, I just get sick of all the false sympathy, when you know damn well they're not interested at all.             I cant walk 10ft before my hip and knee(broken in a m/c accident 35yrs ago) begin to scream at me, I need a cane in winter. I do not have a parking ticket because I know how many more there are out there who need those spots more than me, that IS a matter of pride I suppose.                     My spine was fractured in four places and,well basically I smashed my entire right side and a fair bit of the left, but I've worked ever since my recovery rather than go on the P', I worked at the Sallies once I was on it and had it suspended, it wasn't physical work but I felt guilty getting it while I could still work.               Now I can't, it's that simple, but if you saw me you might wonder why I'm on it, pain isn't readily visible you know,  and I refuse to give in to it as much as I can.       My point is that just because YOU can't see any obvious disability it doesn't mean there isn't one.       Considering the hoops most have to jump through to get on it I doubt there's that many fakers, a simple Doc's certificate is only enough to put in an application, there's a lot more to it after that.        Calling out FAKER and claiming there's a lot is the same, roughly, as calling the unemployed all bludgers, entirely unsupportable in reality.

Mate, you have my deepest sympathy on that one, as I'm in exactly the same boat (or is that bike) myself.

The sawbones told me then (1983) that I could expect a bit of 'curry' from it as I grew older, and he sure wasn't whistling 'Dixie'.

Re your final sentence, please refer to my preceding post. :-)

If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. Lots of people have constant pain. we would all be on disability if that was the only criteria. whinging self entitled wankers. Only have to look at this thread to see the whole problem in this country.

   Mine was in 1978, and they told me:

  :You'll never work again (I'd smashed my hand as well as all the rest)
  :Even if you can learn to walk properly (dubious) you'll be in a wheelchair by 40
:You'll be lucky to live far beyond 50 due the internal damage you've done.

    I've beaten every single one of those predictions, in Spades!  ;)
          i AM going downhill now, but that's all the more reason to fight and have fun, enjoy my grandson and the achievements of my kids, and the sole reason for my Sig" below, I used that back in the day to resist depression, and it sorta worked too, lol.  ;)

     Some days it was hard to find a smile, so I achieved a Black-Belt, 7th Dan in bad jokes and puns, which coincidentally led years later to the kids favourite saying.."Dad, you're an idiot"!  ;D

Good post, El Gatto.

The fraudsters and the non-fraudsters ~ all will be revealed when the Abbott government sorts out the wheat from the chaff.

It's going to get ugly.

We may see parts of the city burning in the night as mobs of DSP rorters leave their wheelchairs and their motorised scooters and their Pit-Bull Terrier Seeing-Eye dogs to go rampaging through the streets at a fast trot.



   

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:32pm:

If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit.

I can't agree with that, Ian.

I don't own a car, but occasionally, when I'm out and about I get a pain in my right hip that just about disables me from doing any more shopping. I can imagine some people needing to park close to the supermarket doors to make their walking as short as possible.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:47pm:

Good post, El Gatto. The fraudsters and the non-fraudsters ~ all will be revealed when the Abbott government sorts out the wheat from the chaff. It's going to get ugly. We may see parts of the city burning in the night as mobs of DSP rorters leave their wheelchairs and their motorised scooters and their Pit-Bull Terrier Seeing-Eye dogs to go rampaging through the streets at a fast trot.

As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid?




Quote:

When the Nazis came for the communists,         I remained silent;         I was not a communist.         When they locked up the social democrats,         I remained silent;         I was not a social democrat.         When they came for the trade unionists,         I did not speak out;         I was not a trade unionist.         When they came for the Jews,         I remained silent;         I wasn’t a Jew.         When they came for me,         there was no one left to speak out.

http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

ian wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:32pm: If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. I can't agree with that, Ian. I don't own a car, but occasionally, when I'm out and about I get a pain in my right hip that just about disables me from doing any more shopping. I can imagine some people needing to park close to the supermarket doors to make their walking as short as possible.

maybe we need to reserve some spaces for people in wheelchairs then.  I still maintain that an enormous amount of people are rorting the system, my GP has told me as much but she is forced to go along with it because these people are so good at working the system. And just having pain is not a good enough reason for a permit, lots of people live with constant pain from old injuries and just get on  with their life without expecting special concessions.

we have more people on a disability pension than on the welfare pension..

say what????

it just goes to show how many bludgers are ripping off the system and its about time someone took these bludgers to task...

>:(

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:52pm: ian wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:32pm: If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. I can't agree with that, Ian. I don't own a car, but occasionally, when I'm out and about I get a pain in my right hip that just about disables me from doing any more shopping. I can imagine some people needing to park close to the supermarket doors to make their walking as short as possible. maybe we need to reserve some spaces for people in wheelchairs then.  I still maintain that an enormous amount of people are rorting the system, my GP has told me as much but she is forced to go along with it because these people are so good at working the system. And just having pain is not a good enough reason for a permit, lots of people live with constant pain from old injuries and just get on  with their life without expecting special concessions.

You've been brainwashed by Govt. propaganda.

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:32pm:

If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. Lots of people have constant pain. we would all be on disability if that was the only criteria. whinging self entitled wankers. Only have to look at this thread to see the whole problem in this country.

      Sheer ignorance, and possibly a touch of arrogance too.
    There's pain, and there's disabling pain, a whole nuther thing indeed.
   Despite your attitude I truly hope you never learn the difference, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even those of your ilk.
     Try and imagine it, your brain is trying to climb out of your head, your muscles are simultaneously cramping to the extreme and failing, your vision blurs, you feel like your about to mess your pants on the spot, sometimes it feels like a pack of rabid Rottweilers are trying to tear your leg(s) off, occasionally you faint or collapse?
       That happens to me regularly, it's no fun to say the least. I won't shake hands with anyone, my bones break too often doing that, I can't run, I have to step slowly up or down stairs, even standing up from a chair can be difficult on a bad day, and getting in or out of the car is always difficult.
       Can you picture how your statement makes me feel?  >:(

      I paid one H of a lot of taxes across my career as a Chef, and during my time with the Sallies too, so......self-entitled?
       To quote a slightly famous movie, "Huh,I blow my nose in your general direction"
      

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:55pm:

As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid?

Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car.

It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete.

That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly.

I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion.

It's gone on for long enough.   

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:12pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.

But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP?

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP?

Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif]

Kat wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:24pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif]

Dear Gatto,
You seem to have a hatred for people you've never met.

you are forgiven

with very much love

and so it is

according to the divine plan

namaste

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP?

That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP.

The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer.

Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose.

The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities.

Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:41pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:33pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose. The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

I bet you that Abort won't touch negative gearing and allow 5 billion a year in uncollected tax to be retained by greedy house hoarding parasites :(

austranger wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Mine was in 1978, and they told me:   :You'll never work again (I'd smashed my hand as well as all the rest)   :Even if you can learn to walk properly (dubious) you'll be in a wheelchair by 40 :You'll be lucky to live far beyond 50 due the internal damage you've done.     I've beaten every single one of those predictions, in Spades!  ;)           i AM going downhill now, but that's all the more reason to fight and have fun, enjoy my grandson and the achievements of my kids, and the sole reason for my Sig" below, I used that back in the day to resist depression, and it sorta worked too, lol.  ;)      Some days it was hard to find a smile, so I achieved a Black-Belt, 7th Dan in bad jokes and puns, which coincidentally led years later to the kids favourite saying.."Dad, you're an idiot"!  ;D

Salaam, brothers in chairs - I beat the prediction I'd be in a wheelchair - flexed, stretched and straightened out my back injury that had me walking on the outside of my left foot and unable to lie on my back in bed or sit in a car seats straight....

Not this little black duck!  Nowadays and for some years I've been building a house and up on the rafters etc like some 22 year old... but I do it at my pace and I can have weeks when my energy is so low I can hardly do anything.... or I can be out of action for two months with back..... I keep my hand-crafted walking stick handy...... and have a pair of crutches in the cupboard just in case...

austranger wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:08pm:

ian wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:32pm: If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. Lots of people have constant pain. we would all be on disability if that was the only criteria. whinging self entitled wankers. Only have to look at this thread to see the whole problem in this country.       Sheer ignorance, and possibly a touch of arrogance too.     There's pain, and there's disabling pain, a whole nuther thing indeed.    Despite your attitude I truly hope you never learn the difference, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even those of your ilk.      Try and imagine it, your brain is trying to climb out of your head, your muscles are simultaneously cramping to the extreme and failing, your vision blurs, you feel like your about to mess your pants on the spot, sometimes it feels like a pack of rabid Rottweilers are trying to tear your leg(s) off, occasionally you faint or collapse?        That happens to me regularly, it's no fun to say the least. I won't shake hands with anyone, my bones break too often doing that, I can't run, I have to step slowly up or down stairs, even standing up from a chair can be difficult on a bad day, and getting in or out of the car is always difficult.p        Can you picture how your statement makes me feel?  >:(       I paid one H of a lot of taxes across my career as a Chef, and during my time with the Sallies too, so......self-entitled?        To quote a slightly famous movie, "Huh,I blow my nose in your general direction"

I saw your photo, might pay to lose a few kilos champ.  Btw, I once spent 6 weeks in ICUs, so no stranger to pain. Still got the trach scar, plus a few other things I manage to cope with. Despite all this I still lead an extremely physical life. In fact I believe mental attitude is everything. I hardly ever talk about my previous injuries, in fact this is the first time I have in years, I don't believe in trying to elicit sympathy. Besides, no one would believe me looking at me.

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:41pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:33pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose.

The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities.

Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:41pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:33pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose. The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

That's incorrect. They went for their political opposition first. Then the Jews.

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 10:41pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:41pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:33pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose. The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. That's incorrect. They went for their political opposition first. Then the Jews.

See - they went for the retarded politicians first!  All good....

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:24pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif] Dear Gatto, You seem to have a hatred for people you've never met. you are forgiven with very much love and so it is according to the divine plan namaste

Hatred? Where?

No hate in my post.

A healthy touch of cynicism, yes. But no hatred.

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 10:41pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:41pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:33pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose. The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. That's incorrect. They went for their political opposition first. Then the Jews.

You are an ignorant person but you're forgiven:


http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/


Quote:

Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

Kat wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 12:05am:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:28pm: Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:24pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif] Dear Gatto, You seem to have a hatred for people you've never met. you are forgiven with very much love and so it is according to the divine plan namaste Hatred? Where? No hate in my post. A healthy touch of cynicism, yes. But no hatred.

you wrote:

Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net



forgiven

namaste

Isn't it amazing how history repeats?

A far right wing government always goes after & persecutes the
disabled & it's most vulnerable people first.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 12:20am:

Kat wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 12:05am: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:28pm: Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:24pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif] Dear Gatto, You seem to have a hatred for people you've never met. you are forgiven with very much love and so it is according to the divine plan namaste Hatred? Where? No hate in my post. A healthy touch of cynicism, yes. But no hatred. you wrote: [highlight]Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net [/highlight] forgiven namaste

And?

Don't you 'get' sarcasm?

Or are you suggesting that I actually feel that way?

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:22pm:

austranger wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:08pm: ian wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:32pm: If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. Lots of people have constant pain. we would all be on disability if that was the only criteria. whinging self entitled wankers. Only have to look at this thread to see the whole problem in this country.       Sheer ignorance, and possibly a touch of arrogance too.     There's pain, and there's disabling pain, a whole nuther thing indeed.    Despite your attitude I truly hope you never learn the difference, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even those of your ilk.      Try and imagine it, your brain is trying to climb out of your head, your muscles are simultaneously cramping to the extreme and failing, your vision blurs, you feel like your about to mess your pants on the spot, sometimes it feels like a pack of rabid Rottweilers are trying to tear your leg(s) off, occasionally you faint or collapse?        That happens to me regularly, it's no fun to say the least. I won't shake hands with anyone, my bones break too often doing that, I can't run, I have to step slowly up or down stairs, even standing up from a chair can be difficult on a bad day, and getting in or out of the car is always difficult.p        Can you picture how your statement makes me feel?  >:(       I paid one H of a lot of taxes across my career as a Chef, and during my time with the Sallies too, so......self-entitled?        To quote a slightly famous movie, "Huh,I blow my nose in your general direction"        I saw your photo, might pay to lose a few kilos champ.  Btw, I once spent 6 weeks in ICUs, so no stranger to pain. Still got the trach scar, plus a few other things I manage to cope with. Despite all this I still lead an extremely physical life. In fact I believe mental attitude is everything. I hardly ever talk about my previous injuries, in fact this is the first time I have in years, I don't believe in trying to elicit sympathy. Besides, no one would believe me looking at me.

Ahh. Im guessing you are a religious nut since you are trying to judge someone by their photo. If you read what he said your attempted smear had nothing to do with the topic. Reported.

SOB

many blessings

all continues to be exposed yes

keep voting for slavery if that would please you

all have freewill

so be it

namaste


ॐ
/

Grappler and Austranger, you are both an inspiration. Sounds like you've both had your share of setbacks, but you've beaten the odds and can live happy and fulfilled lives despite your disabilities, good on ya's!

(shame about old sad sack ian who loves to twist the knife in the backs of our battlers)

Abbott would have the same response, if you can crawl to work (that's some non existent work place by the way), you're not disabled.

it_is_the_light wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 5:59am:

many blessings all continues to be exposed yes keep voting for slavery if that would please you all have freewill so be it namaste ॐ /

Very true master Light,


http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/


Quote:

Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

Kat wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 1:20am:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 12:20am: Kat wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 12:05am: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:28pm: Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:24pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif] Dear Gatto, You seem to have a hatred for people you've never met. you are forgiven with very much love and so it is according to the divine plan namaste Hatred? Where? No hate in my post. A healthy touch of cynicism, yes. But no hatred. you wrote: [highlight]Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net [/highlight] forgiven namaste And? Don't you 'get' sarcasm? Or are you suggesting that I actually feel that way?

I didn't know it was sarcasm & neither did anyone else.

Not at all.

Disability Support Pensioners to be included in the community.

How ludicrous that 400,000 people under the age of 45 are "pensioners"
Even more ludicrous that 1/2 are on it for a bad back or depression.

backs are helped by exercise and light duties....this is an undeniable fact.
depression is helped by social interaction and integration.
this is an undeniable fact.

It is pathetic that these people are just put on benefits because it is a little difficult to place them and motivate them.

If a 10 yo was "depressed" and didn't want to go to school, would the solution be to allow him to stay home (avoidance) and become more socially isolated....Hell No.

We need to open a big can of "whoop ass" under the depressed and the back pain brigade and the public servants who are there to "help" them and get them moving again.

They can certainly go to nursing homes and help feed elderly people, they can help old grandma clean her house . they can help at the rspca washing dogs, they can help public servants clean out their desks.
they need to wake up every morning and say
"how can I help my community, how can I give something back? how can I thank those who are toiling on my behalf...they can be put on a roster to wash dishes and clean bathrooms for local taxpayers....win/win

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 6:33am:

Grappler and Austranger, you are both an inspiration. Sounds like you've both had your share of setbacks, but you've beaten the odds and can live happy and fulfilled lives despite your disabilities, good on ya's! (shame about old sad sack ian who loves to twist the knife in the backs of our battlers) Abbott would have the same response, if you can crawl to work (that's some non existent work place by the way), you're not disabled.

Inspiration my arse, a couple of self entitled whingers.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 12:18am:

Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

The sterilisation law was actually a good thing, some countries actually practised it until the 1970's. Besides which Hitler had already gone for the Jews well before 1933.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Kat wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 1:20am: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 12:20am: Kat wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 12:05am: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:28pm: Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:24pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:12pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm: As you aren't on DSP you don't have to be afraid? Last year we saw news footage of a Muslim youth on a rampage through the streets of Sydney, smashing the windshield of a police car. It transpired that he was on a Disability Support Pension. As fit as an Olympic athlete. That sort of bullshit amongst the Muslim community, and the rest, should be put a stop to very promptly. I myself witnessed a Yugoslav on a DSP rort for 'bad back' proceed to have 11 children while paying off a McMansion. It's gone on for long enough.    But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net.  [smiley=angry.gif] [smiley=angry.gif] Dear Gatto, You seem to have a hatred for people you've never met. you are forgiven with very much love and so it is according to the divine plan namaste Hatred? Where? No hate in my post. A healthy touch of cynicism, yes. But no hatred. you wrote: [highlight]Better that 10,000 genuine cases lose-out, than one rorter slip through the net [/highlight] forgiven namaste And? Don't you 'get' sarcasm? Or are you suggesting that I actually feel that way? I didn't know it was sarcasm & neither did anyone else.

Fair enough.

It's hard to indicate sarcasm without masses of emoticons, which I try to avoid where possible.

No, I don't agree the majority should lose-out because of the actions of a few.  I want to see
the few nailed, and the majority left alone.

All good.

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 6:33am: Grappler and Austranger, you are both an inspiration. Sounds like you've both had your share of setbacks, but you've beaten the odds and can live happy and fulfilled lives despite your disabilities, good on ya's! (shame about old sad sack ian who loves to twist the knife in the backs of our battlers) Abbott would have the same response, if you can crawl to work (that's some non existent work place by the way), you're not disabled. Inspiration my arse, a couple of self entitled whingers.

Well, no.

Being, myself, in a similar position to Austranger, I cannot agree.

Those like us seldom whinge, and the only 'entitlement' we demand is that of a
modicum of respect for carrying on regardless and NOT whinging or taking what
we're not entitled-to or deserving-of.

True Blue... wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 9:04pm:

we have more people on a disability pension than on the welfare pension.. say what???? it just goes to show how many bludgers are ripping off the system and its about time someone took these bludgers to task... >:(

If moral inhibition is not built into a child from an early age, and by example from the parents, that child will grow up as a pragmatist with no conscience, and who will believe it's only fools who don't take advantage of dishonest opportunities.

aquascoot wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 7:40am:

Not at all. Disability Support Pensioners to be included in the community. How ludicrous that 400,000 people under the age of 45 are "pensioners" Even more ludicrous that 1/2 are on it for a bad back or depression.

Great post, aqua.

Maintain the rage.

However, there is the problem of where to place these people in the workforce.

Your list of 'can-do's' is notionally correct, but unless the government makes laws to force employers to take on a percentage of the disabled ~ it's never going to happen.

In menial jobs the main criteria is ... speed. They simply want you to power-through whatever it is you're doing, at maximum speed.

That's making beds and tidying up rooms in a hotel, or a courier van service, or making sandwiches for the lunchtime crowds, or doing work on a factory production-line.

The second job I ever had I was fired from because I took care to do a good job, rather than zip through with shoddy work. They want quantity at the end of the day ~ not good craftsmanship.

People with disabilities aren't going to push themselves hard enough to satisfy a boss.

I worked as a Casual at one place where the boss would turn up the speed-dial of the production-line if he thought we weren't stressed out enough. More widgets: more profit. 

There are over 8,000 ethnic-Australians living 'back home' overseas who are in receipt of the DSP ... and if more than half of them are not on a rort ~ I'll eat my hat.

Bullshit 'compo' rorts and DSP fraud have been a cottage industry ever since the factories and building sites filled up with 'New Australians' from the mid-50's.




[/quote]

Actually I don't know what the fuss is about people on DSP living overseas is. You are aware that they do not get the full pension but $200 less per fortnight and they do not get concessions on anything nor do they get cheap pharmaceuticals.

Also you can't just leave the country on a DSP if you want! You have to be re accessed for eligibility to keep the DSP and have to have a job capacity assessment too.

It's not all roses and chocolates as most people seem to think it is and it is very hard to get permission granted to move overseas form the Government.

Many people who do apply on the DSP to leave Australia actually get knocked back and lose the pension and end up on newstart.

R.A

Rear Admiral wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 4:59pm:

There are over 8,000 ethnic-Australians living 'back home' overseas who are in receipt of the DSP ... and if more than half of them are not on a rort ~ I'll eat my hat. Bullshit 'compo' rorts and DSP fraud have been a cottage industry ever since the factories and building sites filled up with 'New Australians' from the mid-50's. Actually I don't know what the fuss is about people on DSP living overseas is. You are aware that they do not get the full pension but $200 less per fortnight and they do not get concessions on anything nor do they get cheap pharmaceuticals. Also you can't just leave the country on a DSP if you want! You have to be re accessed for eligibility to keep the DSP and have to have a job capacity assessment too. It's not all roses and chocolates as most people seem to think it is and it is very hard to get permission granted to move overseas form the Government. Many people who do apply on the DSP to leave Australia actually get knocked back and lose the pension and end up on newstart. R.A

One would imagine that those on DSP would also be using the health system more than non disabled people. They must be saving this country a fair bit by not using bulk billing and NHS. We should encourage both DSP and aged pensioners to expatriate. It's a win/win situation, they get to live where they are happy and Australia makes savings along the way.

Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:41pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:33pm: Bobby. wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 9:15pm: But what if a a person who was a genuine case lost the DSP? That would be a miscarriage of justice, and we can only hope he or she will have recourse to legal procedures to regain the DSP. The ones most at risk of losing the DSP are those suffering from mental conditions that are not obvious to the casual observer. Even psychiatrists are inept at detecting certain psychological problems that are difficult to diagnose. The first people that the Nazis picked on were those who were retarded or with disabilities. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

::)

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 6:33am: Grappler and Austranger, you are both an inspiration. Sounds like you've both had your share of setbacks, but you've beaten the odds and can live happy and fulfilled lives despite your disabilities, good on ya's! (shame about old sad sack ian who loves to twist the knife in the backs of our battlers) Abbott would have the same response, if you can crawl to work (that's some non existent work place by the way), you're not disabled. Inspiration my arse, a couple of self entitled whingers.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Yeah - but unlike you - I've EARNED the right!

http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/


Quote:

Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

On the Current Affairs tonight they were celebrating the birth of a baby with two faces. Smiles and congratulations. A 'heart-warming' story.

This is how far the Leftwing 'progressives' have taken us down the road to utter lunacy.

The baby was born a monster, but rather than euthanase it for being a grotesquely deficient imitation of a healthy baby, they're going to let it live to be a freak of nature for which it will pay heavily and painfully in the years to come

Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified

Liberals: attacking the poor the unemployed the disables and the minorities since 1944.

"And Loving it"

Lord Herbert wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 8:08pm:

On the Current Affairs tonight they were celebrating the birth of a baby with two faces. Smiles and congratulations. A 'heart-warming' story. This is how far the Leftwing 'progressives' have taken us down the road to utter lunacy. The baby was born a monster, but rather than euthanase it for being a grotesquely deficient imitation of a healthy baby, they're going to let it live to be a freak of nature for which it will pay heavily and painfully in the years to come

      You can't hang that on the left-wing, it's the PC "sensitivity" we're all stuck with today, both wings are victims, and occasional opportunistic proponents, of it. :-X

austranger wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 8:56pm:

You can't hang that on the left-wing, it's the PC "sensitivity" we're all stuck with today, both wings are victims, and occasional opportunistic proponents, of it. :-X

I accept your ... Oh, hang on, that was another post.  8-)

Leftwing. All this modern crawling to minorities, and celebrating 'difference', and pandering to counter-intuitive nonsense is entirely the product of New Age thinking.

I think you owe me an apology for doubting me in the first place.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 5:45pm:

http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg



History always repeats.

the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities,
regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society.

Kat wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 8:16am:

[ Being, myself, in a similar position to Austranger, I cannot agree. Those like us seldom whinge, and the only 'entitlement' we demand is that of a modicum of respect for carrying on regardless and NOT whinging or taking what we're not entitled-to or deserving-of.

For people who seldom whinge; these 2 are doing a remarkable job of detailing their entire list of lifetime injuries and disabilites  and also every single tiny pain they have ever experienced in just about every thread. No one is going to give you any respect for your in injuries, neither should you expect it, get on with your life and stop looking for sympathy and entitlement. You are entitled to exactly nothing in this life.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

[ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Yeah - but unlike you - I've EARNED the right!

ah but you dont know that do you? For all you know I may very well have experienced more hardship and suffering than you, the difference is I just get on with it and expect nothing. No one earns the right to entitlement. You think  my attitude comes from lack of hardship or suffering? Quite the opposite.

Quote:

No one earns the right to entitlement

I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes
therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself.

Same as if I developed a disability.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 10:30pm:

Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability.

incorrect, social security is a safety net, not an entitlement. You are entitled to nothing.

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 10:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:30pm: Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability. incorrect, social security is a safety net, not an entitlement. You are entitled to nothing.

Wrong.

If you fit the criteria and are eligible, an entitlement is precisely what it is.

You're welcome to believe otherwise, but that won't make you any more correct.

Kat wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 10:48pm:

ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:38pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:30pm: Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability. incorrect, social security is a safety net, not an entitlement. You are entitled to nothing. Wrong. If you fit the criteria and are eligible, an entitlement is precisely what it is. You're welcome to believe otherwise, but that won't make you any more correct.

I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy.

Kat wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 10:48pm:

ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:38pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:30pm: Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability. incorrect, social security is a safety net, not an entitlement. You are entitled to nothing. Wrong. If you fit the criteria and are eligible, an entitlement is precisely what it is. You're welcome to believe otherwise, but that won't make you any more correct.

Its not my belief, its fact. No one pays into any social security fund or plan, it is a safety net, not an entitlement. fact.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:01pm:

I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy.

Really? Show which part of government legislation states that.

        I've been having a bad day today, so I've been sitting here reading through various threads to distract myself.
      This one in particular has enlightened me, although others have confirmed it.
      This "Ian" likes to play "Devils Advocate", in a nasty, amateurish (perchance childish?) manner, he takes contrary points, he regularly casts insults and slurs left, right, and centre.
        Why is this allowed to continue? I thought personal abuse was unacceptable here?
        Either which, from this point on I'm going to totally ignore any post he makes, and I suggest others do the same, he makes NO serious contribution to any discussion he enters and merely seeks to provoke a reaction, let's starve him of the attention he so obviously seeks?
      Perhaps needs?
    
      When children behave like this the best answer is to ignore them till they give up and start to behave reasonably, perhaps that approach will work with this one too?
       So, it begins now, in every and any thread, and I invite everyone else to join me. 8-)

---

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:01pm: I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy. Really? Show which part of government legislation states that.

I can't - it's the theory behind it in my eyes.

You'd have to read Hansard.

Austranger, I would suggest that those who cannot accept criticism display the childish behaviour. You attempt to portray yourself to be a wise individual but the opposite is the case, you display the charm of an embittered ego challenged old man with all the characteristics of a schoolyard bully who encourages others to exclude anyone who doesnt pander to their ego or conform to their views. Try growing up, theres still time. Im also not responsible for your lack of intellectual capacity, you have had plenty of years to learn how to acquire knowledge, the fact you still dont know how reflects on you, not me.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:13pm:

ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:08pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:01pm: I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy. Really? Show which part of government legislation states that. I can't - it's the theory behind it in my eyes. You'd have to read Hansard.

That is not the theory behind paying taxes.

poor old Austranger, hes probably hunched over his PC with his bottom lip quivering. Heres the man who was telling us how tough he was by facing up to cage fighters and the scum of society in real life , fighting off bandits and knife wielding assassins (and winning). I  must be a scary internet dude because hes now scared of me. Lol, big Lol.

Yeah - well.. it seems a lot of genuine disability pensioners - which are about 99.9%, look like copping it to satisfy the redneck fringe with their jumped-up ideas of their own importance.

Chasing a few cheap votes from fools you wouldn't listen to in a pub rabbiting on about 'them bludgers', etc....

Let 'em eat cake I say.  Had me a neighbour like that.. true hero of the yob class .. hated dole bludgers and so forth proclaiming far and wide how they 'ripped off' the system...

He was fond of doing cash-in-hand jobs..... no tax and pulling the dole .. his missus ended up leaving him and he lost a hell of a lot - had to go on a pension when his health broke down.

Shoulda slipped himself the hemlock...  oh .. I forgot.. HE worked for that pension... nobody else did!!

:D       :D      :D      :D      :D      ;D      ;D      ;D      ;D      :D      :D      :D      :D

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:30pm:

poor old Austranger, hes probably hunched over his PC with his bottom lip quivering. Heres the man who was telling us how tough he was by facing up to cage fighters and the scum of society in real life , fighting off bandits and knife wielding assassins (and winning). I  must be a scary internet dude because hes now scared of me. Lol, big Lol.

You keep believing your own publicity... Every time you look in the mirror wondering why you're so lonely.

I bet you don't have haemorrhoids either.... You're a perfect a#!*.

Gnads wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 12:02am:

ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:30pm: poor old Austranger, hes probably hunched over his PC with his bottom lip quivering. Heres the man who was telling us how tough he was by facing up to cage fighters and the scum of society in real life , fighting off bandits and knife wielding assassins (and winning). I  must be a scary internet dude because hes now scared of me. Lol, big Lol. You keep believing your own publicity... Every time you look in the mirror wondering why you're so lonely. I bet you don't have haemorrhoids either.... You're a perfect a#!*.

Awww, another poster who cant handle criticism.  Poor liddle boy.

I have never been on any govt pension or allowance myself but know of 2 in my extended family who are on the disability pension and both are very genuine.
Both had to jump through quite a few hoops to qualify.
The first (a brother in law) was in a car accident where he sustained brain damage as well as physical injuries which mean he can't talk or walk properly.
The second, my brother, only went on this pension a few weeks ago because he has terminal lung/brain/liver cancer. Unless you know someone who has cancer or who has undergone radiation/chemo, you may not realise how frail they are, walking and talking are difficult, and with brain tumours, they affect things such as balance and co-ordination. My brother has trouble even with a knife and fork these days and 5 minutes on his feet exhausts him,
There is no way he could work.

So there are a lot of genuine cases out there, but I would have no objection to the govt tightening up the qualifications so that only people with serious ailments were on it. And there would be no harm in people having to face regular re-assessment, if their condition is one that can improve.

sherri wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

So there are a lot of genuine cases out there, but I would have no objection to the govt tightening up the qualifications so that only people with serious ailments were on it. And there would be no harm in people having to face regular re-assessment, if their condition is one that can improve.

Correct, genuine cases have little to fear about being reassessed. makes me wonder why some are screaming so loud.

ian wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 12:13am:

sherri wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 12:10am: So there are a lot of genuine cases out there, but I would have no objection to the govt tightening up the qualifications so that only people with serious ailments were on it. And there would be no harm in people having to face regular re-assessment, if their condition is one that can improve. Correct, genuine cases have little to fear about being reassessed. makes me wonder why some are screaming so loud.

Ha ha - was talking with the C'Link lass the other day about whether to stay on Disability or go on Aged etc.. she said a good reason to go on Aged was that The Guv (touch/tug forelock) was changing the way of determining disability payments and Aged was easier.... and had no reviews.

Been there, done that, and the reviews are worth nothing.... if you are a genuine case.

So this cuts both ways - this is the usual scare campaign to terrorise people who have little to live on; and it is overblown - as usual - to achieve that scare level.  It's called 'terrorism' - read up on the way that runs by intimidating a large number by attacking a small number.

Also I read somewhere that the idea was to try to re-train etc younger people on disability... not such a bad idea IF they are not persecuted as well when there are no jobs.

Now - about linking any politician rises to the same level of calculation as pensions and wages again..... retrospective  to say 1984?   Easy figures to do.....take five minutes to work out and no time at all to send them all an overpayment notice - recoup through tax system or asset grab using the sheriff.

To quote a Vanstone - if they are unable to pay their overpaid salary/perks debt, they'll just have to sell their homes!

Now ask me again why an idiot who said that about pensioners and Centrelink should be paid out of my taxes to sit on her fat asset on a worthless 'commission of audit' that achieved not one good thing....

There is definitely something in the water in Queensland, Western Australia, South Australia, and probably everywhere else here in Oz - you only need to look at the clown show that people keep electing to fat office and what those people do and say when in and out of office.... and some people love them!!!

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:13pm: ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:08pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:01pm: I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy. Really? Show which part of government legislation states that. I can't - it's the theory behind it in my eyes. You'd have to read Hansard. That is not the theory behind paying taxes.

Not really - you know that you have paid taxes all your life so that old people are
protected from poverty - that makes you feel good about paying those taxes &
you also expect to be looked after when you're old.

The same for those who have developed disabilities.

That is why people feel entitled.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 7:18am:

it_is_the_light wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 5:59am: many blessings all continues to be exposed yes keep voting for slavery if that would please you all have freewill so be it namaste ॐ / Very true master Light, http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

Notice how our friend master Light is always on the money?


http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 9:55pm:

For people who seldom whinge; these 2 are doing a remarkable job of detailing their entire list of lifetime injuries and disabilites and also every single tiny pain they have ever experienced in just about every thread.

;D ;D ;D

Come on, Ian - be fair!

They've only ever informed us of their various infirmities in context with the topics in question, and to let us know they have first-hand experience of the system and what it entails, and I haven't detected the slightest hint of them wanting to solicit us for sympathy.

I think you owe them an apology.

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:07pm:

Kat wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:48pm: ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:38pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:30pm: Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability. incorrect, social security is a safety net, not an entitlement. You are entitled to nothing. Wrong. If you fit the criteria and are eligible, an entitlement is precisely what it is. You're welcome to believe otherwise, but that won't make you any more correct. Its not my belief, its fact. No one pays into any social security fund or plan, it is a safety net, not an entitlement. fact.

It's nothing of the kind.

If you are eligible for (in other words, entitled to) something, it's an entitlement.

No matter how much you wish it otherwise.

Hi Bobby,

That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame?

Lord Herbert wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 7:46am:

ian wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 9:55pm: For people who seldom whinge; these 2 are doing a remarkable job of detailing their entire list of lifetime injuries and disabilites and also every single tiny pain they have ever experienced in just about every thread. ;D ;D ;D Come on, Ian - be fair! They've only ever informed us of their various infirmities in context with the topics in question, and to let us know they have first-hand experience of the system and what it entails, and I haven't detected the slightest hint of them wanting to solicit us for sympathy. I think you owe them an apology.

I'm sure he does.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 7:55am:

Hi Bobby, That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame?

I believe it's Mr Himmler.

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 10:30pm:

Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability.

Correct.

What goes around, comes around.

Then, it was our duty to finance the needs of the Welfare Benefits Teat Sucklings ~ and now that we ourselves have gown old and infirm and have become sucklings of these very same taxation-funded tits, it's our turn to be carried aloft in comfort by the litter-bearers of the tax-paying employed.  :)

Bobby. wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 7:56am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:55am: Hi Bobby, That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame? I believe it's Mr Himmler.

A rose, by any other name...

Lord Herbert wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 7:56am:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 10:30pm: Quote: No one earns the right to entitlement I have paid for others to get the pension through my taxes therefore I feel entitled to get a pension myself. Same as if I developed a disability. Correct. What goes around, comes around. Then, it was our duty to finance the needs of the Welfare Benefits Teat Sucklings ~ and now that we ourselves have gown old and infirm and have become sucklings of these very same taxation-funded tits, it's our turn to be carried aloft in comfort by the litter-bearers of the tax-paying employed.  :)

Yes - no wonder we all feel so entitled.

And there would be no harm in people having to face regular re-assessment, if their condition is one that can improve.


If their condition was one that could improve, they would have been put on sickness benefits in the first place.

Kat wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 7:59am:

Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:56am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:55am: Hi Bobby, That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame? I believe it's Mr Himmler. A rose, by any other name...

A mass murderer who started out by persecuting disabled people:


http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:01pm:

I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy.

That was always part of the deal with being a tax-payer. It gave you certain expectations for the future should you become old, unemployed, or incapacitated.

It's worth noting that it was Bob Hawke who sneakily discontinued worker's medical levies being itemised on payslips as separate from the tax. This way it opened up a whole new stream of financial contributions from Australia's workers for his government to play silly-buggers with.

Journalist: "Mr Hawke ~ Is your government now accessing the compulsory medical levy from Australia's 8 million workers for general use not to do with bulk-billing and free hospital treatment?"

Bob Hawke: "What medical levy? I think you need to check your facts, dear".

So, Bobby ... our tax contributions towards our future need to draw upon government welfare was always a part of our tax-burden, but not itemised separately.

Ian is on a rampage this morning. Probably indigestion driving his temper. Don't take him too literally this morning. He'll lighten up by tomorrow. If it's not indigestion, then it's probably sun-spot activity.

austranger wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 11:10pm:

I've been having a bad day today, so I've been sitting here reading through various threads to distract myself.       This one in particular has enlightened me, although others have confirmed it.       This "Ian" likes to play "Devils Advocate", in a nasty, amateurish (perchance childish?) manner, he takes contrary points, he regularly casts insults and slurs left, right, and centre.         Why is this allowed to continue? I thought personal abuse was unacceptable here?         Either which, from this point on I'm going to totally ignore any post he makes, and I suggest others do the same, he makes NO serious contribution to any discussion he enters and merely seeks to provoke a reaction, let's starve him of the attention he so obviously seeks?       Perhaps needs?            When children behave like this the best answer is to ignore them till they give up and start to behave reasonably, perhaps that approach will work with this one too?        So, it begins now, in every and any thread, and I invite everyone else to join me. 8-)

;D ;D ;D

Sorry aust ~ but love him or hate him ~ Ian is a good contributor. Intelligent and articulate ~ and not seeking popularity. He's a catalyst for stirring up the emotions, and yes, occasionally he should be strapped to a chair on a swinging arm at the Dunking Pond, or suspended over a tall building by his heels.

But he brings stimulation to this board, and that makes it a lot more interesting than if we all agreed with each other.

I think it might not be out of order if you should offer him an apology for your above comments.  8-)

Lord Herbert wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 8:06am:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:01pm: I always thought of my taxes as a kind of insurance policy. That was always part of the deal with being a tax-payer. It gave you certain expectations for the future should you become old, unemployed, or incapacitated. It's worth noting that it was Bob Hawke who sneakily discontinued worker's medical levies being itemised on payslips as separate from the tax. This way it opened up a whole new stream of financial contributions from Australia's workers for his government to play silly-buggers with. Journalist: "Mr Hawke ~ Is your government now accessing the compulsory medical levy from Australia's 8 million workers for general use not to do with bulk-billing and free hospital treatment?" Bob Hawke: "What medical levy? I think you need to check your facts, dear". So, Bobby ... our tax contributions towards our future need to draw upon government welfare was always a part of our tax-burden, but not itemised separately. Ian is on a rampage this morning. Probably indigestion driving his temper. Don't take him too literally this morning. He'll lighten up by tomorrow. If it's not indigestion, then it's probably sun-spot activity.

Ah, yes - the old 'consolidated revenue' trick eh?  Anyone could see THAT one coming!

Bro Hawke has a lot to answer for.... and that from one who was a rusted-on Labor supporter in the past and a Union delegate.


Power to the people..... not just the privatised electricity sellers...

Lord Herbert wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 8:23am:

austranger wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 11:10pm:         I've been having a bad day today, so I've been sitting here reading through various threads to distract myself.       This one in particular has enlightened me, although others have confirmed it.       This "Ian" likes to play "Devils Advocate", in a nasty, amateurish (perchance childish?) manner, he takes contrary points, he regularly casts insults and slurs left, right, and centre.         Why is this allowed to continue? I thought personal abuse was unacceptable here?         Either which, from this point on I'm going to totally ignore any post he makes, and I suggest others do the same, he makes NO serious contribution to any discussion he enters and merely seeks to provoke a reaction, let's starve him of the attention he so obviously seeks?       Perhaps needs?            When children behave like this the best answer is to ignore them till they give up and start to behave reasonably, perhaps that approach will work with this one too?        So, it begins now, in every and any thread, and I invite everyone else to join me. 8-) ;D ;D ;D Sorry aust ~ but love him or hate him ~ Ian is a good contributor. Intelligent and articulate ~ and not seeking popularity. He's a catalyst for stirring up the emotions, and yes, occasionally he should be strapped to a chair on a swinging arm at the Dunking Pond, or suspended over a tall building from his heels. But he brings stimulation to this board, and that makes it a lot more interesting than if we all agreed with each other. I think it might not be out of order if you should offer him an apology for your above comments.  8-)

      If his offensive, and at times abusive, commentary is seen as acceptable here, fair enough, I'll bow to majority opinion, or the monitors, as the case may be, but then it would seem highly unfair to ask me to apologise for being far less offensive, or whatever, than he regularly is.  :-X
   Good for the goose etc?
        No matter, I shall continue to ignore his juvenile and provocative posts in the hope that eventually he will mature enough for decent company.  8-)

austranger wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

If his offensive, and at times abusive, commentary is seen as acceptable here, fair enough, I'll bow to majority opinion, or the monitors, as the case may be, but then it would seem highly unfair to ask me to apologise for being far less offensive, or whatever, than he regularly is.  :-X    Good for the goose etc?         No matter, I shall continue to ignore his juvenile and provocative posts in the hope that eventually he will mature enough for decent company.  8-)

I feel sure he's preparing his fulsome apology to you, even as we speak ...  8-)

Hi I am just new to this forum and have not had a chance to read all of the posts yet but I just wondered if anyone has ever encountered this before. My DSP was cancelled last year after attending the SSAT and AAT.

A document from two doctors at Centrelink Health Professionals Advisory Unit supporting my eligibility for DSP was not in the Centrelink Review officers list of evidence and had previously been disregarded by a psychologist Job Capacity Assessor assessing my physical injuries.

Centrelink failed to supply this document to the SSAT until after their decision even though it had been requested under Freedom of Information weeks prior to the hearing and a request for an extension of time for the hearing to receive this was denied.

The SSAT included this document in their decision even though it is date stamped as arriving at their office via fax two days after the decision had been made and written into their report as being part of the decision.

I would recommend all those appealing DSP cancellations get a copy of their Job Capacity Assessment and read through it carefully you might be surprised as I was with what you find.

The Ombudsman showed no interest in my complaint.

Welcome to the board, Justice.

Don't give up. Even become a pest to them if you have to. The oil goes to the squeaky wheel.

Just keep plugging away at them. Wear them down. They will relent eventually.

Contact your local federal MP for an interview. Don't overload him or her with too much to say. Keep to what's strictly relevant. Through their powers of 'Ministerial Discretion' they can make 'telephone calls' .. the sort that can soften up your local Centrelink staff.

Best of luck.

         I too suggest you be that squeaky wheel, whenever I've dealt with any large organisation, public or private, that has always worked for me.
         I've had none of your experiences, I didn't even know such things or people existed, honestly.
      My own case was/is simple, my disabilities are there in plain sight in any x-ray or cursory physical examination, it took me all of ONE day to be granted the DSP when it was made clear to me that I should do so by Centrelink.
     Even back when I asked to be taken OFF it because I had been offered a job and was taking it they insisted on only suspending it for the duration, and once I left that job they re-instated it immediately without a squeak.
     Go figure!     :-?

Bobby. wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 8:01am:

Kat wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:59am: Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:56am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:55am: Hi Bobby, That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame? I believe it's Mr Himmler. A rose, by any other name... A mass murderer who started out by persecuting disabled people: http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

great pic bobby.
looks like the new over-seers for the "green army"

Justice for Disabled wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Hi I am just new to this forum and have not had a chance to read all of the posts yet but I just wondered if anyone has ever encountered this before. My DSP was cancelled last year after attending the SSAT and AAT. A document from two doctors at Centrelink Health Professionals Advisory Unit supporting my eligibility for DSP was not in the Centrelink Review officers list of evidence and had previously been disregarded by a psychologist Job Capacity Assessor assessing my physical injuries. Centrelink failed to supply this document to the SSAT until after their decision even though it had been requested under Freedom of Information weeks prior to the hearing and a request for an extension of time for the hearing to receive this was denied. The SSAT included this document in their decision even though it is date stamped as arriving at their office via fax two days after the decision had been made and written into their report as being part of the decision. I would recommend all those appealing DSP cancellations get a copy of their Job Capacity Assessment and read through it carefully you might be surprised as I was with what you find. The Ombudsman showed no interest in my complaint.

Could you decipher your acronyms please?

aquascoot wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 5:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 8:01am: Kat wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:59am: Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:56am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:55am: Hi Bobby, That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame? I believe it's Mr Himmler. A rose, by any other name... A mass murderer who started out by persecuting disabled people: http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg great pic bobby. looks like the new over-seers for the "green army"

Very true,

Arbeit macht frei

Bobby. wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 5:29pm: Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 8:01am: Kat wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:59am: Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:56am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 7:55am: Hi Bobby, That Nazi pic..............is that Scott Morrison on the far left of frame? I believe it's Mr Himmler. A rose, by any other name... A mass murderer who started out by persecuting disabled people: http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg great pic bobby. looks like the new over-seers for the "green army" Very true, Arbeit macht frei

       ;DYeah, and look how good that worked for them! ;D

It worked well - but I'm still working out the budget.

http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 8:00am:

And there would be no harm in people having to face regular re-assessment, if their condition is one that can improve. If their condition was one that could improve, they would have been put on sickness benefits in the first place.

I can't swear about what would happen today, but this was not true in the past for my brother in law. He was the one with brain damage and physical disabilities after a car accident.
He had to go for a medical reassessment every year for a few years, till eventually he was assessed as permanently disabled.
I think that was entirely okay as doctors felt he probably would not be able to work. but it can be hard to completely predict how people will improve with head injuries.

I am still trying to figure out how people with disabilities will fare under the new budget.

They have slugged pensioners.

            I watched the bit about DSP, and for the life of me I couldn't follow it either.
      The fact that so much obfuscation was used inclines me to suspect the worst though, they're trying to avoid headlines about slugging the defenseless I suppose ::)
        Like much else with this Government we'll just have to wait and see what they actually do, they've repeatedly shown already that we can't take anything they say at face value, even when we can understand them.  :(
      

austranger wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 1:00am:

I watched the bit about DSP, and for the life of me I couldn't follow it either.       The fact that so much obfuscation was used inclines me to suspect the worst though, they're trying to avoid headlines about slugging the defenseless I suppose ::)         Like much else with this Government we'll just have to wait and see what they actually do, they've repeatedly shown already that we can't take anything they say at face value, even when we can understand them.  :(

Yes - the plight of people with disabilities is not clear from Hockey's budget.

Bobby. wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

I am still trying to figure out how people with disabilities will fare under the new budget. They have slugged pensioners.

The mantra is: "We don't want to know what's wrong with you ... we want to know what's right with you".

If you're in an Iron Lung ... the Work Nazis will figure out some way you can be useful to the State. 

I can't help smiling though.

In my little neck of the woods there's an extraordinary number of young people I know by sight who for years have been partying on a taxpayer life-style of no work, and congregating daily at the local cafes.

This flock of noisy bludgers may soon disappear from the main-strip after well-over a decade of them infesting the place as methadone 'clients' and ex-cons.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 8:14am:

I can't help smiling though. In my little neck of the woods there's an extraordinary number of young people I know by sight who for years have been partying on a taxpayer life-style of no work, and congregating daily at the local cafes. This flock of noisy bludgers may soon disappear from the main-strip after well-over a decade of them infesting the place as methadone 'clients' and ex-cons.

I don't drive as far as I used to lately - too much road rage, so I opt to use public transport if I'm going some distance. I'm shocked to see all the young people who use a pension card for their daily travel. Any parent who supports their child, unless they're physically disabled or mentally retarded, going on a disability pension is not acting in their best interests.

It basically writes them off as contributing members to society. They are denying their children a chance to gain confidence by being amongst people who don't feel sorry for them.

mantra wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 8:35am:

It basically rights them off as contributing members to society. They are denying their children a chance to gain confidence by being amongst people who don't feel sorry for them.

Welcome back, Lady Mantra.  :)

I believe Sheltered Workhouses might be making a return in a big way. There are some around, but not nearly enough to cater for the mentally and physically 'challenged'.

                  In a way I do have a slight sympathy for the young ones, we did it to them in the first place by not teaching them the work-ethic we all grew up with, nor insisting that education was on the same track too.
          However, that being said, it was a choice we as parents all had to make, and I chose to do my best to instil that ethic in my own Fiddlers Three.
          While I was on the Sole-Parent pension I rarely got much actual money from it, I held a part-time job (15hrs pw), started and grew a gardening round and did fancy cakes on commission on the side, I ended up doing about 5-10 per month of those with a minimum charge of $100, up to over $1000 for a wedding cake (depending on just how fancy or large they wanted it, lol)
       I have followed the same approach while on the DSP, I have been on it for just over ten years, and was pushed onto it by Centrelink to begin with, but have only actually been paid money for less than ONE year in all that time, I worked for as long as I could drag my sorry old a*se out that door.
     And YES, every single hour and dollar was reported, and taxed, I've found that if you play a straight bat with life and Gov' Depts you have a much easier road to follow, plus I was setting an example for the kids, they'll learn from what YOU do better than what you say, it's just the way it is.
      As I said though, my sympathy is limited, those youngsters can make a conscious decision to get a job, where that is possible,  and if they choose not to then they deserve whatever they don't get.
       Mine are all full-time workers with multiple qualifications and study part-time still, and have held second jobs whenever they felt the need or had the time, they have even felt guilty doing that because they might be denying someone else a job. I just told them they deserved whatever they got, they worked at getting that job in a competitive market so shut up and get on with it, silly!  ;)
        Also, yes, I do like to brag, I worked hard for that right! :)

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

mantra wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:35am: It basically rights them off as contributing members to society. They are denying their children a chance to gain confidence by being amongst people who don't feel sorry for them. Welcome back, Lady Mantra.  :)

Thank you Lord Herbert. I wasn't suspended or banned, but not through lack of trying by my enemies. 


austranger wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 9:05am:

s I said though, my sympathy is limited, those youngsters can make a conscious decision to get a job, where that is possible,  and if they choose not to then they deserve whatever they don't get.

Not necessarily. The jobs aren't there for a start. There are too many desperate experienced people to compete with for the few jobs which are available. However they at least have something to sustain themselves with on Newstart or whatever it's called these days. The DSP makes a basically capable person incapable long term. It is not a solution to unemployment, because long term it can cripple a healthy person - or for those who want to exploit it, makes it easy for them to rort the system by taking on cash jobs.

mantra wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 9:33am:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:53am: mantra wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:35am: It basically rights them off as contributing members to society. They are denying their children a chance to gain confidence by being amongst people who don't feel sorry for them. Welcome back, Lady Mantra.  :) Thank you Lord Herbert. I wasn't suspended or banned, but not through lack of trying by my enemies.  austranger wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 9:05am: s I said though, my sympathy is limited, those youngsters can make a conscious decision to get a job, where that is possible,  and if they choose not to then they deserve whatever they don't get. Not necessarily. The jobs aren't there for a start. There are too many desperate experienced people to compete with for the few jobs which are available. However they at least have something to sustain themselves with on Newstart or whatever it's called these days. The DSP makes a basically capable person incapable long term. It is not a solution to unemployment, because long term it can cripple a healthy person - or for those who want to exploit it, makes it easy for them to rort the system by taking on cash jobs.

    I actually agree with you by and large, that's why I included the rider:-"where that is possible".

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

ian wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 4:51pm: Kat wrote on May 11th, 2014 at 3:19pm: I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be. But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution. simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these  professionals, time to put an end to this madness, Only the day before yesterday I walked down my main street and saw all the Usual Suspect DSP rorters partying as usual in the local cafes. I've seen the same score of faces for years. I call them The Untouchables. I don't think one of them is an ethnic. I would quite literally pay them $20 to hear their story ~ how in God's name they've managed to avoid work for all these years. My guess is ... 1) 'Depression' 2) 'Bi-Polar Disorder' 3) 'Alcoholic' (although I've never seen any of them drunk). 4) 'Prone to self-harm'. 5) 'Chronic back pain'

So you know these "Untouchables" personally, do you?

Know their names? Know for sure they are on the DSP?

Or are you just guessing? Like you are guessing about their conditions?

If guesses were horses......well, you know the rest......

Quote:

Only the day before yesterday I walked down my main street and saw all the Usual Suspect DSP rorters partying as usual in the local cafes. I've seen the same score of faces for years.

lmao you are so full of sh1t

JC Denton wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

Quote: Only the day before yesterday I walked down my main street and saw all the Usual Suspect DSP rorters partying as usual in the local cafes. I've seen the same score of faces for years. lmao you are so full of sh1t

Welcome back, bestie. You've been missed.

Peter Freedman wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 10:37am:

If guesses were horses......well, you know the rest......

It's "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride".

I saw the usual crop of bludgers again today in the main street. I don't mind the genuine cases, but among this lot there's a majority of smart-arse young punks who haven't worked for years.

And what made me laugh today? I was in Coles and a noisy bunch of them came from outside to the cigarettes counter. The rest of us counting our pennies ... but here they were, living extravagantly on all sorts of DSP etc rorts.

I'm guessing that within 12 months they'll all be off the streets and working for their upkeep.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:14pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 10:37am: If guesses were horses......well, you know the rest...... It's "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride". I saw the usual crop of bludgers again today in the main street. I don't mind the genuine cases, but among this lot there's a majority of smart-arse young punks who haven't worked for years. And what made me laugh today? I was in Coles and a noisy bunch of them came from outside to the cigarettes counter. The rest of us counting our pennies ... but here they were, living extravagantly on all sorts of DSP etc rorts. I'm guessing that within 12 months they'll all be off the streets and working for their upkeep.

yes, I go to the local shopping centre and see the usual suspects, I work shift work so know that many others also do of course but its easy to pick out the bludgers.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 8:14am:

Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 8:37pm: I am still trying to figure out how people with disabilities will fare under the new budget. They have slugged pensioners. The mantra is: "We don't want to know what's wrong with you ... we want to know what's right with you". If you're in an Iron Lung ... the Work Nazis will figure out some way you can be useful to the State.  I can't help smiling though. In my little neck of the woods there's an extraordinary number of young people I know by sight who for years have been partying on a taxpayer life-style of no work, and congregating daily at the local cafes. This flock of noisy bludgers may soon disappear from the main-strip after well-over a decade of them infesting the place as methadone 'clients' and ex-cons.

They couldn't support the lifestyle you describe on welfare. It's impossible and we all know that

So, if your account is accurate, they're obtaining money elsewhere

In which case, they're not typically disabled, are they?

Whereas out there, there are people who are genuinely disabled, unable to work and reliant on welfare.  They don't sit around drinking latte in sidewalk cafes, nor do they have money or inclination for drugs or drink at taxpayer expense.  Instead, they live poor lives in every sense of the word

and it does them a grave injustice to portray them as welfare millionaires, drug addicts, etc. in the hope of alienating them from taxpayers' sympathy

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:27pm:

yes, I go to the local shopping centre and see the usual suspects, I work shift work so know that many others also do of course but its easy to pick out the bludgers.

Most of my working life was shift-work ... and I mean 'work'. No 'weekends', no 'Xmas' ...

The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

' ... The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc.

Yes, absolutely correct. Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum.

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:47pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:45pm: ' ... The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc. Yes, absolutely correct. Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum.

Sounds to me as if you're touting for some support

PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:54pm:

ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:47pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:45pm: ' ... The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc. Yes, absolutely correct. Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum. Sounds to me as if you're touting for some support

either that or he's hoping for some man loving .....  ;D ;D ;D

PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:14am: Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 8:37pm: I am still trying to figure out how people with disabilities will fare under the new budget. They have slugged pensioners. The mantra is: "We don't want to know what's wrong with you ... we want to know what's right with you". If you're in an Iron Lung ... the Work Nazis will figure out some way you can be useful to the State.  I can't help smiling though. In my little neck of the woods there's an extraordinary number of young people I know by sight who for years have been partying on a taxpayer life-style of no work, and congregating daily at the local cafes. This flock of noisy bludgers may soon disappear from the main-strip after well-over a decade of them infesting the place as methadone 'clients' and ex-cons. They couldn't support the lifestyle you describe on welfare. It's impossible and we all know that.

Smoking cigarettes, and having a cup of coffee every half hour would be easy for them to cover on the DSP with rental assistance and 'supplementary' benefits.


PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

So, if your account is accurate, they're obtaining money elsewhere In which case, they're not typically disabled, are they?

I know two of the drug dealers by sight, but I'd be surprised if it was something other than marijuana they're selling. That's why they're left alone by the local cops.

A casual I once worked with also took Monday off every second week to sell 'Mary Jane' around the local pubs.


PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

Whereas out there, there are people who are genuinely disabled, unable to work and reliant on welfare.  They don't sit around drinking latte in sidewalk cafes, nor do they have money or inclination for drugs or drink at taxpayer expense.  Instead, they live poor lives in every sense of the word.

There's no possible reason for them not to sit in the sun having a cappuccino or two at pavement cafes from North Sydney to the Far Western suburbs.


PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

and it does them a grave injustice to portray them as welfare millionaires, drug addicts, etc. in the hope of alienating them from taxpayers' sympathy

I've been careful to describe this lot as 'The Untouchables' who turn up to the local cafes every day of the year while the aging unemployed are beaten over the head to get back to work or do Work for the Dole as I did at age 64.

Is it really necessary for me to spell it out that: Most people on the DSP are genuine cases who are not rorting the system.

I didn't think it was necessary for me to state this as the obvious.

PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:54pm:

ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:47pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:45pm: ' ... The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc. Yes, absolutely correct. Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum. Sounds to me as if you're touting for some support

I don't need support. Sorry to disappoint you. I like Herbert, he makes some posts I don't agree with and on occasion I personally insult him but he displays what I would call street savvy which can only come from life experience in the real world, unlike most on this forum who are ridiculously naive and gullible.

John Smith wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

PZ547 wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:54pm: ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:47pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:45pm: ' ... The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc. Yes, absolutely correct. Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum. Sounds to me as if you're touting for some support either that or he's hoping for some man loving .....  ;D ;D ;D

I get all I want from your boyfriend.

PZ547 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:14am: Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2014 at 8:37pm: I am still trying to figure out how people with disabilities will fare under the new budget. They have slugged pensioners. The mantra is: "We don't want to know what's wrong with you ... we want to know what's right with you". If you're in an Iron Lung ... the Work Nazis will figure out some way you can be useful to the State.  I can't help smiling though. In my little neck of the woods there's an extraordinary number of young people I know by sight who for years have been partying on a taxpayer life-style of no work, and congregating daily at the local cafes. This flock of noisy bludgers may soon disappear from the main-strip after well-over a decade of them infesting the place as methadone 'clients' and ex-cons. They couldn't support the lifestyle you describe on welfare. It's impossible and we all know that So, if your account is accurate, they're obtaining money elsewhere In which case, they're not typically disabled, are they? Whereas out there, there are people who are genuinely disabled, unable to work and reliant on welfare.  They don't sit around drinking latte in sidewalk cafes, nor do they have money or inclination for drugs or drink at taxpayer expense.  Instead, they live poor lives in every sense of the word and it does them a grave injustice to portray them as welfare millionaires, drug addicts, etc. in the hope of alienating them from taxpayers' sympathy

Which is entirely the object of the exercise.

And I see several here who've fallen for it.

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:47pm:

Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum.

Aw shucks ... http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/cool_man_zpsd296c987.gif

I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 4:39pm:

John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:55pm: PZ547 wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:54pm: ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:47pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 2:45pm: ' ... The bludgers have a certain 'look' about them that's easy to spot. They are a genuine stereotype. These are the ones who spent their late teens, 20's, and to mid-30's in and out of jail for drug-dealing, burglary, receiving goods, alcohol-fuelled domestic violence, etc, etc. Yes, absolutely correct. Im starting to think you may be a lot smarter than most on this forum. Sounds to me as if you're touting for some support either that or he's hoping for some man loving .....  ;D ;D ;D I get all I want from your boyfriend.

yes, he told you you love a good rodgering....

Neferti wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 5:15pm:

I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D

was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti .....

John Smith wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

Neferti wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 5:15pm: I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti .....

;D Get a grip.

Oh and it is tendencies. Your spelling is atrocious. Are you a tradie? ;)

Neferti wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 6:47pm:

John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 6:29pm: Neferti wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 5:15pm: I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti ..... ;D Get a grip. Oh and it is tendencies. Your spelling is atrocious. Are you a tradie? ;)

oh a spelling nazi  :D :D :D... whats the matter? was it difficult for you to work out what it was supposed to be?......

John Smith wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

Neferti wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 5:15pm: I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti .....

Homos dont wear dresses john, you would be referring to transvestites. You of all people should know this.

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 8:11pm:

John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 6:29pm: Neferti wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 5:15pm: I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti ..... Homos dont wear dresses john, you would be referring to transvestites. You of all people should know this.

you're the expert Ian .... we can't all be like you

Bobby. wrote on May 12^th, 2014 at 5:45pm:

http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities. http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg

The Nazis may have had their eugenics plans but very soon you are going to see similar restrictions as written in that article.

Eugenics hasn't just disappeared its still around and even more so than you realise.

Today its called Bioethics!

The time will come where certain people will not be allowed to have children. But when the Elite manage to get their way and are in full dictatorial control no one will be having children.

What they intend to do is 'grow' human beings. Im not joking, the Elite are a serious bunch of despots with a serious amount of power and wealth; well over a third of the worlds wealth actually, and they have big plans and you and everyone else are simply living through those plans. We're just passing through. We are born, we become producer/consumers, we retire and become consumers only, which the Elite absolutely hate, and then we die.

John Smith wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:11pm: John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 6:29pm: Neferti wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 5:15pm: I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti ..... Homos dont wear dresses john, you would be referring to transvestites. You of all people should know this. you're the expert Ian .... we can't all be like you

of course you can't john, otherwise you would know what you are talking about.

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:33pm:

John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 9:59pm: ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 8:11pm: John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 6:29pm: Neferti wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 5:15pm: I think I am beginning to like Ian.  ;D was it his comment about his homo tendancies? You've always liked a man in a dress haven't you Neferti ..... Homos dont wear dresses john, you would be referring to transvestites. You of all people should know this. you're the expert Ian .... we can't all be like you of course you can't john, otherwise you would know what you are talking about.

I'm never claimed to be an expert on homo's & tranies Ian ... I'm merely a casual observer. If you tell me i'm wrong, I believe you

Taipan wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 5:45pm: http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities. http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg The Nazis may have had their eugenics plans but very soon you are going to see similar restrictions as written in that article. Eugenics hasn't just disappeared its still around and even more so than you realise. Today its called Bioethics! The time will come where certain people will not be allowed to have children. But when the Elite manage to get their way and are in full dictatorial control no one will be having children. What they intend to do is 'grow' human beings. Im not joking, the Elite are a serious bunch of despots with a serious amount of power and wealth; well over a third of the worlds wealth actually, and they have big plans and you and everyone else are simply living through those plans. We're just passing through. We are born, we become producer/consumers, we retire and become consumers only, which the Elite absolutely hate, and then we die.

I see great dangers for Australia when we persecute people with disabilities.

Who's next to be targeted?

Taipan wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 5:45pm: http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities. http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg The Nazis may have had their eugenics plans but very soon you are going to see similar restrictions as written in that article. Eugenics hasn't just disappeared its still around and even more so than you realise. Today its called Bioethics! The time will come where certain people will not be allowed to have children. But when the Elite manage to get their way and are in full dictatorial control no one will be having children.

many blessings ,

yet not on this planet ...

any whom disagree will be telling their

collective story (and the parrots whom repeat

as much ) walking

happy trails now

namaste

- : ) =



ॐ
/

Why didn't Abbott reduce public servants wages by 10% ? -
they don't make any money - they only cost money.
Possible saving $10 billion.

Why didn't he stop negative gearing?
Possible saving  $5 billion.


Instead he attacks the most vulnerable people who have nothing.

John Smith wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:37pm:

I'm never claimed to be an expert on homo's & tranies Ian ... I'm merely a casual observer. If you tell me i'm wrong, I believe you

thats not what your boyfriend says.

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:58pm:

John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 11:37pm: I'm never claimed to be an expert on homo's & tranies Ian ... I'm merely a casual observer. If you tell me i'm wrong, I believe you thats not what your boyfriend says.

Stop writing about homos - it's not a homosexual forum.

Bobby. wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 12:01am:

ian wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 11:58pm: John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 11:37pm: I'm never claimed to be an expert on homo's & tranies Ian ... I'm merely a casual observer. If you tell me i'm wrong, I believe you thats not what your boyfriend says. Stop writing about homos - it's not a homosexual forum.

John  keeps bringing it up. I think he enjoys talking about it, probably gets a little tingle down his spine when he does, probably even spikes his sex life up with his missus. Who are we to discourage someones fantasies?

it_is_the_light wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:58pm:

Taipan wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 11:29pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 5:45pm: http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities. http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg The Nazis may have had their eugenics plans but very soon you are going to see similar restrictions as written in that article. Eugenics hasn't just disappeared its still around and even more so than you realise. Today its called Bioethics! The time will come where certain people will not be allowed to have children. But when the Elite manage to get their way and are in full dictatorial control no one will be having children. many blessings , yet not on this planet ... any whom disagree will be telling their collective story (and the parrots whom repeat as much ) walking happy trails now namaste - : ) = ॐ /

Eugenics is here already.

Bobby. wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 12:07am:

[ Eugenics is here already.

Lets not hope it ever becomes retrospective, you and half the others on this forum would be fcked.

Bobby. wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:50pm:

Taipan wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 11:29pm: Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 5:45pm: http://www.fold3.com/page/286019384_nazi_propaganda_against_the_disabled/stories/#30221/ Quote: Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” July 14, 1933 On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities. http://skepticism-images.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/jreviews/Hitler-Himmler-SS-1938.jpg The Nazis may have had their eugenics plans but very soon you are going to see similar restrictions as written in that article. Eugenics hasn't just disappeared its still around and even more so than you realise. Today its called Bioethics! The time will come where certain people will not be allowed to have children. But when the Elite manage to get their way and are in full dictatorial control no one will be having children. What they intend to do is 'grow' human beings. Im not joking, the Elite are a serious bunch of despots with a serious amount of power and wealth; well over a third of the worlds wealth actually, and they have big plans and you and everyone else are simply living through those plans. We're just passing through. We are born, we become producer/consumers, we retire and become consumers only, which the Elite absolutely hate, and then we die. I see great dangers for Australia when we persecute people with disabilities. Who's next to be targeted?

Food, Water, Farming, Sovereignty, Gender Roles, Culture, Education, Individualism,  just about every aspect of our lives is already being targeted. It happens so slowly that most people don't question it. They just adapt to the changes and go along with it. Look at the recent 'free trade' negotiations with Japan, no one has said anything against it and yet 'free trade' is just a ploy that will allow multinational corporations to manipulate trade deals and such that we the people are not going to benefit from any of it. Not just anyone will be able to jump on the 'free trade' bandwagon I can guarantee you that.

And look at farming, look at how many rules and regulations farmers have to adhere to, its ridiculous. Its the sort of thing that drives them out of the farming and agriculture business and that's exactly what its meant to do.
The Elite have said they wont leave the farming up to the farmers. It will be taken over by corporations.

You really have to listen to Alan Watt to get the full picture. No one else on the net knows the things he knows.

ian wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 12:13am:

Bobby. wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 12:07am: [ Eugenics is here already. Lets not hope it ever becomes retrospective, you and half the others on this forum would be fcked.

forgiven

namaste

Taipan wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 12:18am:

. Look at the recent 'free trade' negotiations with Japan, no one has said anything against it and yet 'free trade' is just a ploy that will allow multinational corporations to manipulate trade deals and such that we the people are not going to benefit from any of it. Not just anyone will be able to jump on the 'free trade' bandwagon I can guarantee you that.



You really have to listen to Alan Watt to get the full picture. No one else on the net knows the things he knows.
[/quote]

I tried raising that point here, to little comment.

  http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1398919036/0#0 

ian wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 11:58pm:

John Smith wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 11:37pm: I'm never claimed to be an expert on homo's & tranies Ian ... I'm merely a casual observer. If you tell me i'm wrong, I believe you thats not what your boyfriend says.

you're the expert