Im an agnostic which you probaly know that means i dont follow or believe in any mainstream religion but i dont rule out the possibllity of an inteligient design either, that most religions have defined there beliefs in one on, rather that the universe was created from some cosmic accident.


I was once a christian, but left the church, became an atheist for a while , but have been thinking agnostically ever since.


But I often read about the story of jesus christ whose name is the most widely known in human history and what really happened 2,000 years ago in the holy land, through the new testament people we have been sold the idea of Jesus christ as a supernatural deity, a god who became human who dropped in here from heaven to earth to spread moral philosphy about sin, mercy and forgiveness and that there is a god in heaven who happens to give a s**t about the human beings that he supposely have created.

I think Ive placed this thread in the wrong board, I should have been put into atheism, sprinty I think this one needs to go to the atheism board.

Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:14pm:

Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real.

Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire.

stryder wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:18pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire.

The prime sources of the life of jesus is in the four canonised gospels, outside of that is the works of josephus who may have lived around his time, the dead sea scrolls, the koran and the roman historian tacitus who made a passing reference on him.

Ive read two books about the possibilities of who Jesus really was. where it leans on the theory which i mostly believe i which he was just a human being.

Check out if you can

Jesus the man by barbara thiering

The secret life of jesus by robert macklin

stryder wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:18pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire.

I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification.

This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:54pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:18pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire. I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification. This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction.

You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion.

Jesus was born as a human child, and he grew up to be a human man.

The human man Jesus was 'imbued' with the pure spirit of God.     ....whereas [i believe] we have and are 'gifted' with a small portion of the spirit of God.    Think of our situ as that of the servants, in the parable of the talents.  Matthew 25:14-30

And Jesus the man experienced what it means to be human, and to suffer temptation and loss.

Jesus was killed by men [by 'normal' mankind].

And on the third day, the spirit of God redeemed Jesus the entity, back to life, and redeemed 'him', back into the full presence of 'God'.





Q.
What will be our fate ?

A.
Q.
What are you doing, with the gifts that God has given entrusted to you ?


Matthew 25:29
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30  And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.




Jesus is real.

Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence.

Some were even born as moslems.

stryder wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:54pm: stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:18pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire. I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification. This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction. You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion.

A very good possibility that he was a real human, but not supernatural.
One theory I read somewhere was that Jesus was from the family of King David, and was actually trying, by peaceful methods, to reclaim the throne of Israel.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 11:55pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:54pm: stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:18pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire. I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification. This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction. You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion. A very good possibility that he was a real human, but not supernatural. One theory I read somewhere was that Jesus was from the family of King David, and was actually trying, by peaceful methods, to reclaim the throne of Israel.

There is even one story that jesus was concieved through a rape of mary by a roman soldier name panthera. it suggest that a roman soldier was his father and not joseph the carpenter.

stryder wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

Im an agnostic which you probaly know that means i dont follow or believe in any mainstream religion but i dont rule out the possibllity of an inteligient design either, that most religions have defined there beliefs in one on, rather that the universe was created from some cosmic accident. I was once a christian, but left the church, became an atheist for a while , but have been thinking agnostically ever since. But I often read about the story of jesus christ whose name is the most widely known in human history and what really happened 2,000 years ago in the holy land, through the new testament people we have been sold the idea of Jesus christ as a supernatural deity, a god who became human who dropped in here from heaven to earth to spread moral philosphy about sin, mercy and forgiveness and that there is a god in heaven who happens to give a s**t about the human beings that he supposely have created.

this thread my be useful for you

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1396315783/220

To be honest, I think Life of Brian was probably the closest in reality. There were plenty of prophets at the time who claimed to be Son of God. One just happened to be a little better at the mythology

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:54pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:18pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire. I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification. This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction.

Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in 4AD under Constantine. It then influenced almost the entire world view of people in Europe from this point. Europe split in two: the Holy Roman Empire and Eastern Orthodox. Pretty much all literature written from this era until the Enlightenment period refers to Christianity at some point.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:54pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:18pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire. I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification. This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction.

Quote:

..................they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification......

hahahhah, great terminology.

I know, I know, I'm meant to be offended .......... its funny though  :-)

Jesus probably existed, but most of what was attributed to him mythical. The facts in the source material don't line up with history correctly, and the claims made seem incredible but have no mention outside religious texts.

Might have been a guy around at some time, but the Jesus of the bible is almost certainly fictional.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 10:42am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:54pm: stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:18pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 10:14pm: Neither. Jesus is just a mythological story that Americans have reignited 500 years ago and claimed to be real. Oh the story of jesus and its aftermath and fallout has been this way for more than just 500 years, christianity has played a big role in the shaping of europe after the fall of the roman empire. I would say that Christianity was something that played a minimalist role in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. Very few people knew about Christianity, and it was possibly 600 years ago that there were numbers enough for Christianity to be noteworthy. Just that when the Reformation came about, the Christian fundamentalists got on their boats and headed to modern day United States so that they can continue their socially inept ways towards modern day cultural dorkification. This doesn't diminish the reasoning that the story of "Jeebuz and his shite beez majuk stuff" is pure fiction. Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in 4AD under Constantine. It then influenced almost the entire world view of people in Europe from this point. Europe split in two: the Holy Roman Empire and Eastern Orthodox. Pretty much all literature written from this era until the Enlightenment period refers to Christianity at some point.

Closer to 340AD. Constantie himself didn't convert to Christianity until about 312 AD.

Augustus was emperor in 4AD

Cheers for those corrections. I meant to say 4th century.

Hundreds of prophecies about Jesus appear in the Old Testament.
Much of the Old testament has been carbon tested and proven to be as old as claimed.

So many prophecies were made well before Jesus was born.

Needless to say, Jesus was an itinerant moraliser who acquired most of his material from the writings of the Greek philosophers and the Roman ethicists such as Aesop of Aesop's Fables.

It was a time of rich intellectual output from the various Classical schools in that eastern part of the Mediterranean.

Unfortunately the cave-dwelling mystics of that time were not content with recording Christ as having been a mere mortal who advocated that people should live by the Golden Rule of Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

They deified him so his words would carry more authority and not fade with the passage of time.

I doubt that Jesus even existed.

It's just a collection of fairy tales from ancient Egyptian stories
superimposed on another time.

Proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsG3MxUd1jg

stryder wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion.

I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture.

I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers.

actually, the bible is made up of many many stories ... every tale, or story passed down throughout history, and cultures, that could be used to reinforce the idea of a god, was adopted by the bible to do just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm: You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion. I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture. I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers.

Ah, well, keep reading it.

.

Yadda wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 11:48pm:

Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence.

Many people alive today do a lot of drugs.

The dead sea scrolls is claimed to be the very paper or something which survived from all the way back the to the time period of the new testament times,  and that in all of it, it descibes the essenes a sub branch of ancient judaism in its times which is described to be mostly similiar in the doctrine and message of which jesus himself preached, but its members observed a pretty harsh monastic life with strict rules about including outsiders, Australian theologian barbara theiring back in 1988 had a theory that jesus was a member of the essene sect itself.

rabbitoh08 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 11:26pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:48pm: Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence. Many people alive today do a lot of drugs.

Jesus changes lots of lives, for the good.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

Hundreds of prophecies about Jesus appear in the Old Testament. Much of the Old testament has been carbon tested and proven to be as old as claimed. So many prophecies were made well before Jesus was born.

They are rather vague and open to interpretation. Since the new testament was written later it could have be easily written to fulfill the prophecies. Not exactly convincing evidence.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm: You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion. I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture. I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers.

St Augustine refers to Christ in his writings in the 4th and 5th centuries.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 11:16am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:50pm: stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm: You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion. I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture. I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers. St Augustine refers to Christ in his writings in the 4th and 5th centuries.

Yeah, thinking Christianity is only a few hundred years old, and invented by the Americans is a very interesting idea..

Quote:

.......... About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, 3[58].....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Flavius wrote as an historian.
ie , A non-religious book.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 9:32am:

rabbitoh08 wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 11:26pm: Yadda wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:48pm: Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence. Many people alive today do a lot of drugs. Jesus changes lots of lives, for the good.

So do drugs, you've just gotta find the right one  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

Quote: .......... About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, 3[58]..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus Flavius wrote as an historian. ie , A non-religious book.

Yes, however:


Quote:

Scholarly opinion on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities, a passage that states that Jesus the Messiah was a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate, usually called the Testimonium Flavianum, varies. The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian interpolation or forgery by fourth-century apologist Eusebius or by others

If Jesus had really done the sort of things claimed, there would likely be more than a passing mention in other texts.

Son of God

Jesus is someone I know. We met some years ago.
He made a profound change in my life.

There are many people who say the same thing of Jesus.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

John 8:34-36

Quote:

The Essenes were a Jewish mystical sect somewhat resembling the Pharisees. They lived lives of ritual purity and separation. They originated about 100 B.C., and disappeared from history after the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The Essenes are not directly mentioned in Scripture, although some believe they may be referred to in Matthew 19:11, 12 and in Colossians 2:8, 18, and 23. Interest in the Essenes was renewed with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were likely recorded and stored by the Essenes. It has been popular among some scholars to claim that John the Baptist was an Essene. There are some similarities between John and the Essenes: 1. John was in the desert (Luke 1:80). The Essenes were in the desert. 2. Both John and the Essenes used Isaiah 40:3 to describe themselves as the voice in the wilderness. 3. The baptism (or washing) practiced by John and the Essenes required a change of heart. At the same time, there are significant differences between John the Baptist and the Essenes: 1. The Essenes hid themselves away from society in the wilderness. John was a very public figure. 2. John had a much stricter diet (Luke 7:33) than did the Essenes. 3. John preached Jesus as the Messiah. The Essenes did not recognize Jesus as Messiah, but they thought that the Teacher of Righteousness would himself be an Essene. 4. There was a strong organization among the Essenes that was missing among John the Baptist’s disciples. So, was John the Baptist an Essene? While it is possible, it cannot be explicitly proven  historically.

Jesus the Man: New Interpretations from the Dead Sea Scrolls is a book written by the Australian biblical scholar and theologian Barbara Thiering. It was first published by Doubleday in 1992 with the title, Jesus & The Riddle of The Dead Sea Scrolls: Unlocking The Secrets of His Life Story.

Using a technique that the author calls "pesher", she purports to have uncovered evidence in the Gospels themselves that effectively contradicts the story they narrate of Jesus's and his mission. She calls this story the "surface meaning" of the Gospels, which is "for 'babes'", in contrast to the hidden meaning. Using this method, Thiering believes she has discovered, among other things, that Jesus was a member of the Essene community, that he survived the crucifixion, and that he later married twice.

The book was a bestseller, and has been several times reprinted. Its argument has been widely rejected by the scholarly community

The central thesis of the book is that "Jesus was the leader of a radical faction of Essene priests. He was not of virgin birth. He did not die on the Cross. He married Mary Magdalene, fathered a family, and later divorced. He died sometime after AD 64".[2] From the New Testament gospels and Dead Sea Scrolls, Thiering constructs a new history of early Christianity which she contends was hidden in pesher coding. Thiering finds that the biography of Jesus hidden in the New Testament shows him to have been born in Qumran, an Essene community beside the Dead Sea, in March, 7 BC. Robert E. Van Voorst summarizes Thiering's account of the life of Jesus as follows:


He was born out of wedlock to a woman of Qumran's royal-priestly line, befriended outcasts, and performed no miracles. He was crucified with Simon Magus and Judas Iscariot at Qumran, but survived by snake venom that rendered him unconscious. Jesus then married twice, to Mary Magdalene and Lydia of Philippi, fathering three children. After wandering the Mediterranean, he died in obscurity in Rome.[3]

Jesus's distinctive ideas arose from the Essenes. In March, 17 AD, he was initiated at the age of 23, and took a political stance in favor of his spiritual "father", Annas the high priest, "who taught peace with Rome and the promotion of Gentiles".[4] He was rebaptized by John the Baptist in March, 29 AD. Thiering says that John is identical to the Essene Teacher of Righteousness, praised in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Jesus soon split from John, becoming one of the leaders of a party "called the Twelve Apostles",[5] some of whom (including Judas Iscariot and Simon Magus) were zealots and others (including Jesus), pacifists. Because of his opposition to John, Jesus is referred to the Dead Sea Scrolls as the Wicked Priest. Thiering examines each of the miracles in the New Testament and finds in them nothing miraculous, but rather events marking turning points in the history of "the Fig Tree", as the movement was called.

Thiering sees Jesus as a prominent member of the Essene movement. His prominence derived from his descent from the Davidic kingship, as well as the efforts of his great grandfather, said to have been Hillel the Great, and his grandfather, Heli, to establish schools of religious instruction for Jews of the Diaspora. Unlike Simon Magus, the second most important figure in the New Testament according to Thiering, Jesus was a pacifist. He opposed the zealots, calling for a reform and renewal of religion. This would lead to a Jewish empire which would overrule the Roman Empire by its appeal to reason and morality.

Wikipedia, jesus the man, barbara thiering.

Good compelling read it was, but her conclusions are a little far off though.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 9:43pm:

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:34-36

Very nice.

rabbitoh08 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 11:26pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:48pm: Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence. Many people alive today do a lot of drugs.

If  'doing a lot of drugs' = 1

Being in the presence of Jesus = 1 x 100




p.s.
Good luck with the drugs!

:D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 9:43pm:

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:34-36

Absolutely!

Post #41,

Sounds very scholarly, and plausible.

NOT!

:D

;D

Yadda wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 10:15pm:

Post #41, Sounds very scholarly, and plausible. NOT! :D ;D

Its just only a theory that was formed by this aussie theologian back in 1988, its been widely dismissed by theologians and scholars worldwide and has been ever since, barbara thiering pesher technique and method is known to have flaws to begin with.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:16am: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:50pm: stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm: You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion. I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture. I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers. St Augustine refers to Christ in his writings in the 4th and 5th centuries. Yeah, thinking Christianity is only a few hundred years old, and invented by the Americans is a very interesting idea..

No, I was saying that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and was reignited by American pioneers who fled the enlightenment period. You can always rewrite history and books to suit your own agenda.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

No, I was saying that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and was reignited by American pioneers who fled the enlightenment period. You can always rewrite history and books to suit your own agenda.

You can always post your opinion online too and try and rewrite history to suit yourself as well.
It goes both ways.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 12:15pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:16am: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:50pm: stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm: You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion. I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture. I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers. St Augustine refers to Christ in his writings in the 4th and 5th centuries. Yeah, thinking Christianity is only a few hundred years old, and invented by the Americans is a very interesting idea.. No, I was saying that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and was reignited by American pioneers who fled the enlightenment period. You can always rewrite history and books to suit your own agenda.

Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ??????????

I was wondering how that little nugget was produced myself.

stryder wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 11:01pm:

Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ??????????

Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense!

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 11:37am:

stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense!

What about the crusades from europe in the 11th and 12 centuries that wanted to capture jerusalem and the holy land for christian europe, how does that fit in to your theory of yours, ??????

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 11:37am:

stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make....sense !

The fact is 2,000 years ago was a different time and era compared to today, there wasnt twitter or mass media technology to report on what was going on in the roman or biblical world of then.

stryder wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 11:37am: stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense! What about the crusades from europe in the 11th and 12 centuries that wanted to capture jerusalem and the holy land for christian europe, how does that fit in to your theory of yours, ??????

I thought it was about imperialistic expansion. Christians can be about implicating themselves into history, by claiming credit for things that they didn't involve themselves.

stryder wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 11:37am: stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make....sense ! The fact is 2,000 years ago was a different time and era compared to today, there wasnt twitter or mass media technology to report on what was going on in the roman or biblical world of then.

Obstinate Christians believe that Jesus had the ability to replicate food (bread and fish) of small portion samples so that 5000 people were able to be fed sufficiently. Had all these miracles been witnessed by any number of people, it is obvious that the Romans would have seized on such an opportunity to strengthen their army, and feed them with such a person. Any nation on earth would be falling over themselves for the chance to use such a person. But since the bible basically goes on about Jesus getting his arse kicked, and then executed, and THEN seeing that people basically forget about him, we can assume that the story is just a story, and such a miracle worker didn't exist.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 11:37am:

stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense!

LOL just another persons theory.  ::)

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 10:55pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:45pm: No, I was saying that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and was reignited by American pioneers who fled the enlightenment period. You can always rewrite history and books to suit your own agenda. You can always post your opinion online too and try and rewrite history to suit yourself as well. It goes both ways.

Your opinion concedes that I probably have a reasonable point. Why wouldn't the likelihood that a region of society that is more than 90% illiterate would also have its recorded history dictated retroactively by more modern religious scholars?

2000 years ago, historians wouldn't have had any problem embellishing the functionality of society, as well as claiming that God came to them in dreams, and that the ooga-booga demon caused earthquakes, whilst magic was what caused the earth to be the centre of the universe, blah, blah, blah...

Historians over the next 2000+ years wouldn't have had any real number of competitors to challenge them on what went on at the time. My opponents have also conceded that there wasn't any twitter, facebook, internet, up to date news which would have allowed an educated (amongst largely uneducated) society to follow up and challenge the validity of such claims. Therefore, to be able to verify the possibility of such acts, the historian is up against it to prove something that no one will challenge. But that puts him in the advantage.

So, you can imagine that my premise that "those making the assertion need to prove their point" is a valid argument. If you want to go and prove something from a time when now the dust of the involved people's bones have blown away in the wind, you really are grasping at fresh air in trying to convince a modern day agnostic that far-fetched scenarios are plausible.

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 3:21pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 11:37am: stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense! LOL just another persons theory.  ::)

Sounds more credible than your far-fetched theory. *laughing out loud*

stryder wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 11:37am: stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make....sense ! The fact is 2,000 years ago was a different time and era compared to today, there wasnt twitter or mass media technology to report on what was going on in the roman or biblical world of then.

few people were literate.
People did not travel much or far.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 8:26pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:55pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:45pm: No, I was saying that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and was reignited by American pioneers who fled the enlightenment period. You can always rewrite history and books to suit your own agenda. You can always post your opinion online too and try and rewrite history to suit yourself as well. It goes both ways. Your opinion concedes that I probably have a reasonable point. Why wouldn't the likelihood that a region of society that is more than 90% illiterate would also have its recorded history dictated retroactively by more modern religious scholars? 2000 years ago, historians wouldn't have had any problem embellishing the functionality of society, as well as claiming that God came to them in dreams, and that the ooga-booga demon caused earthquakes, whilst magic was what caused the earth to be the centre of the universe, blah, blah, blah... Historians over the next 2000+ years wouldn't have had any real number of competitors to challenge them on what went on at the time. My opponents have also conceded that there wasn't any twitter, facebook, internet, up to date news which would have allowed an educated (amongst largely uneducated) society to follow up and challenge the validity of such claims. Therefore, to be able to verify the possibility of such acts, the historian is up against it to prove something that no one will challenge. But that puts him in the advantage. So, you can imagine that my premise that "those making the assertion need to prove their point" is a valid argument. If you want to go and prove something from a time when now the dust of the involved people's bones have blown away in the wind, you really are grasping at fresh air in trying to convince a modern day agnostic that far-fetched scenarios are plausible.

I can imagine you are all cut up about something your post makes no sense at all except being some rant over information you perceive is correct for some strange reason.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 8:28pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 3:21pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 11:37am: stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense! LOL just another persons theory.  ::) Sounds more credible than your far-fetched theory. *laughing out loud*

If you say so Einstein.  :D :D

;D

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 11:37am:

stryder wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:01pm: Chrisitianity is stated to be around 2,000 years old on every record, but according to you its around 600 years old, and started in the american colonies ?????????? Once again... I stated that Christianity is assumed to be about 600 or 700 years old, and was revived in the American colonies, when pilgrims fled Europe in pursuit of continuing their fanaticism for their religion. I didn't say that it was invented in America. There isn't anything out there that proves that the religion was widespread 1700 years ago. Nor does the fact that people seemed unexcited by the prospect of someone, for example, "magically" being able to feed thousands of people through limited resources. Yet, then still be able to go about their day without such a life altering experience witnessed, and not made public enough that authority figures would try and make sense and use of such a strategically significant resource. It... doesn't.... make.... sense!

Quote:

.....The Rise and Rescue of the Jesus Sect (50 BC to 250 AD) – Discusses Roman Judeo cultural world, Council of Jerusalem, Essenes, John the Baptist, textual evidence of Jesus, rise of the Church, Paul, Valentinius, Marcion, Tertullian, Origen, coming predominance of Roman Church and the Papacy From Martrys to Inquisitors (250 AD to 450 AD) – Diocletian's persecution, Constantine's conversion, first official Church, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine. Mitred Lords and Crowned Ikons (450 AD to 1054 AD) – Dark Age Christianity, monasticism, Christian relics, rise of Papacy, Carolingian age, Eastern Orthodox Church. The Total Society and its Enemies (1054 AD to 1500 AD) – Height of Papacy, Middle Age theology, total Christian society, paying for Penance, corruption of Church, Crusades, millenarian revolts. The Third Force (1500 AD to 1648 AD) – Reformation and Counter reformation, with an emphasis on Erasmus. Faith, Reason and Unreason (1648 AD to 1870 AD) – Christianity's conflict with the Enlightenment, beginning of retreat of total Christian Society, Pascal, Voltaire, Protestantism, French Revolution, rerise of Papacy. Almost Chosen Peoples (1500 AD to 1910 AD) – Christian missionaries, conversion of Latin America, East Asian Christianity, Francis Xavier, Alessandro Valignano, persecution of Japanese Christianity, American Christianity, 19th century missionary work, African Christianity. The Nadir of Triumphalism (1870 AD to 1975 AD) – Modern Papacy, Modernity, Christianity and World War II, Nazism, decline of the Church in the West, rise of Pelagianism, Second Vatican Council. .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_Christianity

but, don't let that stop your narrow mindedness.

sprintcyclist, you do realise that textbooks and articles can be based on faulty evidence. I would like to see the publisher of these books and find out where they get their information. Because I believe that the writings can be subjectively told to the reader, rather than objectively. So, you could understand that, even considering your concessions, few people were literate and few travelled very far. That's what undid my enthusiasm for religion over 22 years ago. Illiterate, untravelled witnesses to an alleged miracle worker, will not help the credibility of a religion's survival. Especially for one that lives nearly 2000 years after their supposed death.

But then again, perhaps I haven't thoroughly explored the question well enough. Perhaps we could also say that Jesus really was a real person, but he lived 5000 years ago. And the bible stories were collaborated into one book and disseminated officially 1700 years ago. There could be any number of possibilities, and I think it wrong of you people to dismiss my views simply on the basis that I'm one of the growing 35% of non-believers in religion in Australia.

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 12:03am:

I can imagine you are all cut up about something your post makes no sense at all except being some rant over information you perceive is correct for some strange reason.

Why would I be "all cut up about something" whilst posting to a topic that I seem to have more experience in understanding. As a historian, I have been trained to know that what you read in books simply doesn't encapsulate the experience that someone had gone through to inspire some piece of text, no matter how well written the author has explicitly stated.

But for someone like yourself to claim that my posts are nonsensical rants, it's very hypocritical to claim the high ground. When it seems that you want to defend the credibility of a book that seems to discredit even God as fallible, oblivious, and acting all disillusioned to the events depicted in the first few pages of the Old Testament. Or is that part of the book the part you don't bother?

Let me guess... You are the part of society that thinks that suicidal bombers blow themselves up because "they hate our freedom"?

There are many other aspects of jesus' life where ignorance is the rule rather than the exceptions for christians and non christians alike--his relationships with judas, john the baptist, and the beloved disciple, his ungovernable temper, his fondness for wine, his decidedly unheroic appearance; hostile relations with his family which is referenced in the four gospels and the probable circumstances of his birth, it must said that in these areas the evidence which will be presented here---much of which will contradicts the accepted view---falls short of conclusive proof. All that can be said with certainty is that the conclusions drawn are more probable than the glossy mythology which has been purveyed for the last two millennia, But the essentail point is that in each case ignorance of the facts has been positively encouraged.
Robert macklin, the secret life of jesus, introduction

(con)
The reasons for this are twofold. The first--and morally the more respectable--is the belief of the established church that jesus was and is a deity, a equal participant in the three in one Godhead which they term the trinity, once that is accepted---and in the early christian centuries the dispute over its acceptance split the church and was resolved only by fierce politicking and much bloodshed---the human circumstances of jesus' existence became almost irrelevant, The study of them becomes suspiciously heretical, He is simply the christ, the only begotten son of god who appeared briefly on earth to assure a suffering humanity of gods continueing interest and to offer the way--the formula--for a blissful afterlife.

(con)
The other, less commendable reason is the church's deep concern to present jesus in the most attractive light possible, to universalise him so that his appeal is as powerful to a peruvian street child as it is to a millionaire american president, To this end they have highlighted some elements with a fierce intensity---Suffer the little children'--love your enemies'--ÿou brood of vipers'...I have come to set a man against his father.....--to the shadows of obstruction and obscurity.
They have in effect "packaged"his personality. They have removed his rantings, they have washed him; they have modelled him by Michelangelo and costumed him by Giotto; they have demotivated and dehumanised him; they have removed him from his time and place; they have moulded him to their will. For their own continueing glorication they have played with the truth and turned their plaything into a virtue.
Robert macklin, the secret life of jesus.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY

Did anyone watch the above video?

The most logical explanation is that Jesus was just a man.
When in doubt go the most logical and least complicated.

But Monty Python certainly showed how the truth can be misconstrued.

I found the scene when one group had taken to tieing sandals to poles a great example. (after Bwian had lost a sandal when running from the Romans)

miketrees wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:05pm:

The most logical explanation is that Jesus was just a man. When in doubt go the most logical and least complicated. But Monty Python certainly showed how the truth can be misconstrued. I found the scene when one group had taken to tieing sandals to poles a great example. (after Bwian had lost a sandal when running from the Romans)

Many atheists believe he never existed at all that he was an invention by some jewish playright.

Well so long after the fact it hardly matters, but I think he probably existed.
Jesus is credited with some great teachings, so as long as we can learn from that his existence hardly matters.

Not the crap thats lurking in the Old Testament tho, thats just nasty stuff

miketrees wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:18pm:

Well so long after the fact it hardly matters, but I think he probably existed. Jesus is credited with some great teachings, so as long as we can learn from that his existence hardly matters. Not the crap thats lurking in the Old Testament tho, thats just nasty stuff

Well the case for whether he existed is more plausible i think, given the impact of the story of his life and the teachings that he left behind which became one of the cornerstones of the rise of western civilisation, its ripples still last to this day, makes it hard to believe that the impact through history coming from this one person was born from someones imagination.

miketrees wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:18pm:

Well so long after the fact it hardly matters, but I think he probably existed. Jesus is credited with some great teachings, so as long as we can learn from that his existence hardly matters.

Yeah.

The teachings,     ....were well, great,    ....well, 'some' of them.

But the teachers' existence, is insignificant and his existence 'hardly matters' ?

;D


miketrees,

I know that you don't have the time to waste on such an undertaking, but persons like yourself really should, try to make some time to at least read the Gospels.

And if you do read the Gospels you may notice that the teacher, Jesus, who's 'existence hardly mattered', was constantly frequently referring to, and quoting from, the O.T. "the law and the prophets".

Q.
Why so ?

A.
Coz Jesus was a Torah observant Jewish man.

[The Torah, is the Jewish law, that was given to Moses, by God.    Reputedly.     Allegedly.   :)    You know, that sky-faerie bloke. ]


Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.






Quote:

Not the crap thats lurking in the Old Testament tho, thats just nasty stuff

Yeah.

We can listen to that teacher, Jesus, that dude in that New Testament thingy, who had 'some great teachings'.

But not that 'nasty' O.T. stuff.         :D

What did Jesus say about that 'nasty' O.T. stuff ?



Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus taught that righteousness - keeping the law - was still important.

AND, loving God - was important too - by honouring God, by trying to keep his laws.

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.






"Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother."
Matthew 19:16-19

All of those commandments, above, were quoted by Jesus, directly from the book(s) of the law, the Torah,
Exodus 20:12-16
Deuteronomy 5:16-20





New covenant, old laws.




Never old.

IMAGE....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg





If you are a Christian, and if you believe that those Old Testament laws [God's laws of righteousness] are unimportant [for you as a Christian], you are very, very, mistaken.

Read your Bible!

Jesus fondness of wine and a big meal, The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children King james bible

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds." new international version


Jesus' hostililty towards parents, 46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


(con) Wedding at cana

Jesus' mother (unnamed in John's Gospel) told Jesus, "They have no wine," and Jesus replied, "O Woman, what have I to do with you? My hour has not yet come."

What I find interesting in reading the new testament, the gospels is the fact that the authors omitted nearly 30 years of jesus' life, only the gospels of matthew and luke thought to include the birth of jesus and one short story of his childhood, while the gospels of mark and john didnt care about including it, but next to that we know nothing of jesus' upbringing, his teenage years or even what happened to him in his 20s ??? why is that, given the rapture over this man ????

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 10:38am:

To be honest, I think Life of Brian was probably the closest in reality. There were plenty of prophets at the time who claimed to be Son of God. One just happened to be a little better at the mythology

Im going to have to check out that film one day, ive heard of it for decades, but never got around to seeing it.  :)

I wish I could see The Life Of Brian again for the first time.

stryder wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

Im an agnostic which you probaly know that means i dont follow or believe in any mainstream religion but i dont rule out the possibllity of an inteligient design either, that most religions have defined there beliefs in one on, rather that the universe was created from some cosmic accident. I was once a christian, but left the church, became an atheist for a while , but have been thinking agnostically ever since. But I often read about the story of jesus christ whose name is the most widely known in human history and what really happened 2,000 years ago in the holy land, through the new testament people we have been sold the idea of Jesus christ as a supernatural deity, a god who became human who dropped in here from heaven to earth to spread moral philosphy about sin, mercy and forgiveness and that there is a god in heaven who happens to give a s**t about the human beings that he supposely have created.

What? You'd rather believe in Mohammed???
How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind

Antony Flew: There were two factors in particular that were decisive. One was my growing empathy with the insight of Einstein and other noted scientists that there had to be an Intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical Universe. The second was my own insight that the integrated complexity of life itself—which is far more complex than the physical Universe—can only be explained in terms of an Intelligent Source. I believe that the origin of life and reproduction simply cannot be explained from a biological standpoint despite numerous efforts to do so. With every passing year, the more that was discovered about the richness and inherent intelligence of life, the less it seemed likely that a chemical soup could magically generate the genetic code. The difference between life and non-life, it became apparent to me, was ontological and not chemical. The best confirmation of this radical gulf is Richard Dawkins' comical effort to argue in The God Delusion that the origin of life can be attributed to a "lucky chance." If that's the best argument you have, then the game is over. No, I did not hear a Voice. It was the evidence itself that led me to this conclusion.

I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract?

No wonder Star Wars is so popular, that the Jedi religion is even practiced in real world.

For the word of God is alive and active.
Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Hebrews 4:12

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:14am:

I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract? No wonder Star Wars is so popular, that the Jedi religion is even practiced in real world.

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:14am:

I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract?

That's the whole point. If it wasn't so abstract we'd have a convenient set of rules and regulations that no one would follow.

Modernity has given up on poetry and inspiration. We've become literal, pedantic and fundamentalist.

Spirituality does not always work like this. While a lot of spiritual work is hard graft, much of it is done through dreams.

To advance in self-awareness, you need the phenomenological as much, if not more than, the neumenological.

The Bible is not a passive text.

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 10:14am: I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract? No wonder Star Wars is so popular, that the Jedi religion is even practiced in real world. Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

Try call me unimaginative in front of people that know me. They like having a good laugh.

Karnal wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:45pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 10:14am: I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract? That's the whole point. If it wasn't so abstract we'd have a convenient set of rules and regulations that no one would follow. Modernity has given up on poetry and inspiration. We've become literal, pedantic and fundamentalist. Spirituality does not always work like this. While a lot of spiritual work is hard graft, much of it is done through dreams. To advance in self-awareness, you need the phenomenological as much, if not more than, the neumenological. The Bible is not a passive text.

Just so.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 3:15pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 12:06pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 10:14am: I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract? No wonder Star Wars is so popular, that the Jedi religion is even practiced in real world. Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative. Try call me unimaginative in front of people that know me. They like having a good laugh.

Throwing a book that has been the basis of your own civilisation across the room is the sign of a petulant, unimaginative, emotionally spoiled man with little learning and unjustifiably large opinions of himself.


Tantrum is the word.

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2014 at 9:50pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 14th, 2014 at 3:15pm: Soren wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 12:06pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 10:14am: I threw the bible across the room the other day. The amount of absolute crap and the psyche of uncertainty of the characters makes for a bad read. How does one be able to hold such high esteem for something so abstract? No wonder Star Wars is so popular, that the Jedi religion is even practiced in real world. Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative. Try call me unimaginative in front of people that know me. They like having a good laugh. Throwing a book that has been the basis of your own civilisation across the room is the sign of a petulant, unimaginative, emotionally spoiled man with little learning and unjustifiably large opinions of himself. Tantrum is the word.

;D ;D ;D

Quote:

Discovered and kept secret in the year 2000, the book contains the Gospel of Barnabas – a disciple of Christ – which shows that Jesus was not crucified, nor was he the son of God, but a Prophet.  The book also calls Apostle Paul “The Impostor”.  The book also claims that Jesus ascended to heaven alive, and that Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place.

Read more at http://higherperspective.com/2014/05/1500-year-old-bible-claims-jesus-christ-crucified-vatican-awe.html#Cj7bWBU7tSqbqDkx.99


Got this from the jesus not crucified thread running in the Islam forum,


This looks like a new one it seems that some old ancient looking book that they discovered will suggest another theory among many of who jesus really was.

We are all sons of God - whether we realize that or not.

stryder wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 10:00pm:

What I find interesting in reading the new testament, the gospels is the fact that the authors omitted nearly 30 years of jesus' life, only the gospels of matthew and luke thought to include the birth of jesus and one short story of his childhood, while the gospels of mark and john didnt care about including it, but next to that we know nothing of jesus' upbringing, his teenage years or even what happened to him in his 20s ??? why is that, given the rapture over this man ????

Raven thinks the passage of time would have been a factor. The earliest gospel, Mark, was written some 40 odd years after his crucifixion. So it would be unlikely they would have found anyone who grew up with him.

Interestingly a group in Kashmir claim that 2000 years ago a boy travelled there from Judea with his family and learnt Buddhism off the monks, then returned home after a number of years. Could the Nazarene's preaching's of love thy enemy and turn the other cheek be inspired by Buddhist teachings?

Raven wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 10:00pm: What I find interesting in reading the new testament, the gospels is the fact that the authors omitted nearly 30 years of jesus' life, only the gospels of matthew and luke thought to include the birth of jesus and one short story of his childhood, while the gospels of mark and john didnt care about including it, but next to that we know nothing of jesus' upbringing, his teenage years or even what happened to him in his 20s ??? why is that, given the rapture over this man ???? Raven thinks the passage of time would have been a factor. The earliest gospel, Mark, was written some 40 odd years after his crucifixion. So it would be unlikely they would have found anyone who grew up with him. Interestingly a group in Kashmir claim that 2000 years ago a boy travelled there from Judea with his family and learnt Buddhism off the monks, then returned home after a number of years. Could the Nazarene's preaching's of love thy enemy and turn the other cheek be inspired by Buddhist teachings?

It all fits.

Jesus was prolly a Buddhist.            :P



Matthew 22:35
Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.


....but it was only one of Jesus parables.
Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.






Jesus was a Jewish man, and a Torah [law] teacher.


"Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother."
Matthew 19:16-19


The above [Matthew 19:16-19] were quoted by Jesus, directly from the book(s) of the law, the Torah,
Exodus 20:12-16
Deuteronomy 5:16-20

And including,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
From, Leviticus 19:18

He was just a man, and that's what worries me about his Second Coming ...

'Night of the Living Dead' .... great movie.  8-)

Its surprising that none of the writings of the Nazarene have been found. He was a very educated man and would have recorded his own ministry. After the crucifixion surely his followers would have kept his writings safe. What could have happened to them?

Raven wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

Its surprising that none of the writings of the Nazarene have been found. He was a very educated man and would have recorded his own ministry. After the crucifixion surely his followers would have kept his writings safe. What could have happened to them?

Not even a painting of him - nothing.

That's because it was all made up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsG3MxUd1jg

Yep, I've had this argument over and over as well. You'll find that he never existed as a real person and was just (not merely, but very very importantly) a vehicle to convey the message of astrology (as it was termed).
Jesus was the centre of attention being the sun and stories were created to bring forth knowledge to the masses.

Why the stories? Because that's the way that knowledge was primarily transferred in all ancient societies.
As is always, the story was bastardised by the power hungry.
Modern religion is not to be respected in the least.

Jesus never existed as an actual person. Believe me on that one OK?

..or even better, look it up for yourself.

Whatever.             ::)

Whatever is not a rational reply.

Get it through your thick head numb nuts. Jesus (in your depiction) never existed.

Do you hear me right and are you going to provide some sort of proof?

Like the dickbrain who started this thread and provided only two false options. What, are we voting for a frikin' republic on Howard's watch or something?

You nice people really need to come up with something more rational.

Whatever.             ::)


I have not lived your life.

I have not walked your path.

..and not a thought to think?  ;D

About other people Yadda. Do you ever think that they might exist bigger, better and more worthy than you?
Or do you never think that way?

Amadd wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 1:32am:

About other people Yadda. Do you ever think that they might exist bigger, better and more worthy than you?

Amadd,

There is barely a day that goes by, that i am not reminded by my betters, of how foolish and flawed and weak and puny i am.

By sensible people.

People like yourself.

Normal people.




Amadd,

It is normal people [the wisdom of the 'majority', the mob] who have brought us [mankind] to where we are today.

And how is that going for us ?

We’re not your betters, Y. We’re just as foolish as you are.

Gud is great!

Yadda wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 7:37am:

Amadd wrote on Aug 14th, 2014 at 1:32am: About other people Yadda. Do you ever think that they might exist bigger, better and more worthy than you? Amadd, There is barely a day that goes by, that i am not reminded by my betters, of how foolish and flawed and weak and puny i am. By sensible people. People like yourself. Normal people. Amadd, It is normal people [the wisdom of the 'majority', the mob] who have brought us [mankind] to where we are today. And how is that going for us ?

Yes Yadda, we are all weak and puny in the grand scheme of things, but the human race as a whole is a pretty formidable force as a whole on this planet, despite the problems we face.

A little more truth wouldn't go astray.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:36pm:

Raven wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 1:41pm: Its surprising that none of the writings of the Nazarene have been found. He was a very educated man and would have recorded his own ministry. After the crucifixion surely his followers would have kept his writings safe. What could have happened to them? Not even a painting of him - nothing. That's because it was all made up.

The son of god bit, was certainly made up. As for the lack of paintings, he was, according to the the stories, just a carpenter.  He wouldn't have had the money or fame to have a painting done of himself (and because he wasn't any one special, there'd be no reason for an artist to do a freebie)

Bobby's video is worth a watch.

For me the salient point in that is that religions, all religions, borrow stuff - hence the commonality of myths and legends. Each individual sect then makes the changes to fit their context.

As to the Jesus question, well, I don't think any of us can say definitively if a bloke named Jesus did or did not exist. The stories attributed to him though are somewhat typical of myths/legends attributed to Gods and Demi Gods throughout history, as demonstrated in the liked video that Bobby has provided.

I know that I have read somewhere this attribution to people and thus elevating them to either God or at least Demi God status occurred at the very beginning of forming religion. Further, this was because the Shaman (elders, wise men, priest or whatever you like) of the day realised as clan tribes came together to form larger communities they would need a "higher authority" then men in order to develop laws for all to live by. I have also read this came about from already existing shared stories of heroes etc - the heroes were elevated and they were the moral bench mark for others to aspire to. I might not make much sense with how I am articulating this, but, it made sense to me when I researching this stuff.

To my mind, man made Gods in the image that best suited his particular context at the given time said Gods sprang into existence. I realise that may be offensive to religious people and would like to say that offense is not my intention here whether they chose to believe me or not.

Maybe, as suggested in the video linked here, his persona represents the Sun as a God, rather than the Son of a God.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:42pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsG3MxUd1jg

Well, I'd have to say...none of these 'deities' (or very few) were actually born December 25th....

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

Bobby's video is worth a watch. For me the salient point in that is that religions, all religions, borrow stuff - hence the commonality of myths and legends. Each individual sect then makes the changes to fit their context. As to the Jesus question, well, I don't think any of us can say definitively if a bloke named Jesus did or did not exist. The stories attributed to him though are somewhat typical of myths/legends attributed to Gods and Demi Gods throughout history, as demonstrated in the liked video that Bobby has provided. I know that I have read somewhere this attribution to people and thus elevating them to either God or at least Demi God status occurred at the very beginning of forming religion. Further, this was because the Shaman (elders, wise men, priest or whatever you like) of the day realised as clan tribes came together to form larger communities they would need a "higher authority" then men in order to develop laws for all to live by. I have also read this came about from already existing shared stories of heroes etc - the heroes were elevated and they were the moral bench mark for others to aspire to. I might not make much sense with how I am articulating this, but, it made sense to me when I researching this stuff. To my mind, man made Gods in the image that best suited his particular context at the given time said Gods sprang into existence. I realise that may be offensive to religious people and would like to say that offense is not my intention here whether they chose to believe me or not. Maybe, as suggested in the video linked here, his persona represents the Sun as a God, rather than the Son of a God.

Yup, Sure we can...YES he did..whether he was the 'Son of God' is the question..My bet is 'NO, he wasn't'

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

Bobby's video is worth a watch. For me the salient point in that is that religions, all religions, borrow stuff - hence the commonality of myths and legends. Each individual sect then makes the changes to fit their context. As to the Jesus question, well, I don't think any of us can say definitively if a bloke named Jesus did or did not exist. The stories attributed to him though are somewhat typical of myths/legends attributed to Gods and Demi Gods throughout history, as demonstrated in the liked video that Bobby has provided. I know that I have read somewhere this attribution to people and thus elevating them to either God or at least Demi God status occurred at the very beginning of forming religion. Further, this was because the Shaman (elders, wise men, priest or whatever you like) of the day realised as clan tribes came together to form larger communities they would need a "higher authority" then men in order to develop laws for all to live by. I have also read this came about from already existing shared stories of heroes etc - the heroes were elevated and they were the moral bench mark for others to aspire to. I might not make much sense with how I am articulating this, but, it made sense to me when I researching this stuff. To my mind, man made Gods in the image that best suited his particular context at the given time said Gods sprang into existence. I realise that may be offensive to religious people and would like to say that offense is not my intention here whether they chose to believe me or not. Maybe, as suggested in the video linked here, his persona represents the Sun as a God, rather than the Son of a God.

Thanks Phem,
That video is amazing.

"Zeitgeist, the movie" has been around for about 7yrs now. Since then, there have been revisions to the original and two others which revolve primarily around his ideologies. 

The creator, Peter Joseph Merola, has often been the subject of intense criticism for part 1 of the first of his movies/docos/ideologies/conspiracy theories (mostly by the religious) for his belief in the origins of religions.
They often point out minor faults (if they are in fact faults) and try to disregard the entire theme as total hogwash...therefore proving that the commonly adhered to story of Jesus is the real one.

Merola's depiction comes primarily from the work of D.M. Murdoch, who goes by the pen name of Acharya S.  You can see her website here where you can have open discussion about any of the information in Part 1 of Zeitgeist and find plenty more fascinating information.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/

Personally, after first watching the "Part 1" on religions, I was a little relieved to think that religions were actually once based on something tangible.
To me, it makes perfect sense that in a period without literature, people would transfer knowledge through stories and myths, making them easier to remember. Therefore expanding the efficiencies of farming and societies.
It certainly makes a whole lot more sense than some bozo walking on water, performing miracles...etc.

Only master Light is qualified to answer these questions..

namaste

Jesus was a REAL man,
and he was 'terribly' crucified 'innocently' to his death.
Just as the German killing of the Jews 'en mass' was terrible.

But as Jesus said unto 'his' Jewish People
when they used a Roman middle-man to crucify him to his death.
"Wait till my little brother Hitler gets yas!"

Jesus, alas - was innocent.
But both Jesus & Hitler were both 'un-orthodox' in their relation to Judaism.
Will a man who becomes a great warrior by his own accord,
be accepted by 'The System' compared to a man 'trained by the System' to be a great warrior also.
There can be only one.

As Religion (Middle-East)  'oppressed' Europe, was 'plagerised' (copied) by Asia and kept Africa in the 'dark' (continent).
Jesus - was the sacrifice of the human/individual masculinity of Europe.

This is why - soon!
You will see the Moslems do to the French
what the Germans did to the Jews.
..and why other 'circumstances' will arise towards
a Jewish Leader 'uniting' with his Moslem People.
;)

K.I.S.S
:)

Raven wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

Its surprising that none of the writings of the Nazarene have been found. He was a very educated man and would have recorded his own ministry. After the crucifixion surely his followers would have kept his writings safe. What could have happened to them?

That's Nazarean.

Amadd wrote on Aug 16^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

"Zeitgeist, the movie" has been around for about 7yrs now. Since then, there have been revisions to the original and two others which revolve primarily around his ideologies.  The creator, Peter Joseph Merola, has often been the subject of intense criticism for part 1 of the first of his movies/docos/ideologies/conspiracy theories (mostly by the religious) for his belief in the origins of religions. They often point out minor faults (if they are in fact faults) and try to disregard the entire theme as total hogwash...therefore proving that the commonly adhered to story of Jesus is the real one. Merola's depiction comes primarily from the work of D.M. Murdoch, who goes by the pen name of Acharya S.  You can see her website here where you can have open discussion about any of the information in Part 1 of Zeitgeist and find plenty more fascinating information. http://www.truthbeknown.com/ Personally, after first watching the "Part 1" on religions, I was a little relieved to think that religions were actually once based on something tangible. To me, it makes perfect sense that in a period without literature, people would transfer knowledge through stories and myths, making them easier to remember. Therefore expanding the efficiencies of farming and societies. It certainly makes a whole lot more sense than some bozo walking on water, performing miracles...etc.

And it's STILL crap. And always will be.

Its pretty sad to see so many Jews/Moslems dying when
'everyone' knows that Israel/Islam will 'unite' eventually.

...I guess the 'process' has to be lived through and experienced, even if it is 'known'.
To eat from the Tree of Knowledge,
and eating from the Tree of Life
are two different things entirely.

What do you 'die' for? :-?

Jasin wrote on Aug 16^th, 2014 at 7:40pm:

Its pretty sad to see so many Jews/Moslems dying when 'everyone' knows that Israel/Islam will 'unite' eventually.

What makes you believe that ?




http://www.beholdthebeast.com/index.htm

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_the_opposite.htm    -     Islam is the perfect opposite of Christianity

Kinetic energy Yadda.
A Rubber band pulled one way...

What the Germans did to the Jews,
the Moslems will do to the French
and both Moslem and Jew will be forced to unite
in the face of Italy.

All this rhetoric and still no consensus.Jesus The Christ (proper way to say it) existed. The Bible is real no matter how many times it is thrown across a room or is spat on or burned or?

Atheist, Agnostic, I believe these are terms made up by people who DIDN'T get out of Religion what they thought would happen so, they decided to attack the Bible, God and of course, Jesus The Christ so they would appear superior.
Charles Darwin did it, so, why not others huh?

It's a sad state of affairs and of course, the muslims are laughing at everyone who isn't a muslim. How can non muslims ever hope to defeat the moon god and his adherents if they are so divided. Chat on. 8-)