Quote:

Murdered in name of family honour Chris McGreal in Ramallah reports on a rise in killings of Palestinian women Faten Habash's father wept as he assured his daughter there would be no more beatings, no more threats to her life and that she was free to marry the man she loved, even if he was a Muslim. All he asked was that Faten return home. Hassan Habash even gave his word to an emissary from a Bedouin tribe traditionally brought in to mediate in matters of family honour, a commitment regarded as sacrosanct in Palestinian society. But the next weekend, as Faten watched a Boy Scouts parade from the balcony of her Ramallah home, the 22-year-old Christian Palestinian was dragged into the living room and bludgeoned to death with an iron bar. Her father was arrested for the murder. "He gave me his word she would not be harmed," said Ibrahim Abu Dahouq, the Bedouin mediator. "He was crying and begging her to come home. They were even telling me that for their daughter to leave their house as a bride would be an honour for them. We never believed that love would lead to death in this ugly way." Two days later, another ritual of killing unfolded a few miles away in Jerusalem. Maher Shakirat summoned three of his sisters to discuss a family uproar after one of them, Rudaina, was thrown out by her husband for an alleged affair. Maher listened to Rudaina's denials, and her sisters' pleas that they were not covering up the affair. Then he forced the three women to drink bleach before strangling Rudaina, who was eight months pregnant. The other sisters tried to flee but Maher caught and strangled Amani, 20. The third, Leila, escaped but was badly injured by the bleach. Maher, a bus driver in his 30s, is in hiding but his parents were arrested for allegedly ordering the murders and his wife was detained as an accomplice. As he was taken into custody, Rudaina's father, Amin, was asked why his daughters were killed. "Because they dishonoured the family," he said. "A married woman who goes with another man isn't good." The murders of Faten Habash and the Shakirat sisters last month were the latest in a series of brutal "honour killings" that have shaken the Palestinian community over recent weeks. The deaths have prompted demands for a change to laws inherited from the days of Jordanian rule that deem all women to be "minors" under the authority of male relatives and that provide a maximum of six months in prison for killings in defence of "family honour." But those calls have met with resistance in parliament where religious Palestinian MPs argue that reform will lead to a collapse in the moral fabric of society. According to the Palestinian women's affairs ministry, 20 girls and women were murdered in honour killings last year and about 50 committed suicide - often under coercion - for "shaming" the family through sex outside marriage, refusing an arranged marriage or seeking a divorce. Another 15 women survived attempts to kill them. The ministry says that dozens of other killings are covered up each year. "We had one woman of 26 who was certified as dying of old age," said Maha Abu Dayyeh Shamas, director of the Women's Centre for Legal Aid and Counselling. "Putting 'falling into well' on the death certificate is very common. We find that the women were strangled and then dumped in the well." Faten Habash's murder was unusual because she came from the Christian minority in the Palestinian territories. Her desire to marry a young Muslim, Samer Hamis, so infuriated her family that the couple decided to elope to Jordan. Faten's father enlisted the family priest to stop his daughter on the grounds that, even though she was 22, all women are legally regarded as minors under the authority of their male relatives. The Palestinian authorities returned Faten to her home where she was beaten and her pelvis broken as she was either thrown from a window or jumped trying to escape. She spent six weeks in hospital. She sought protection under an ancient Bedouin formula for resolving disputes, known as Tanebeh. Abu Dahouq, a lawyer for the Dawakuk tribe, negotiated with the Habash family. Mr Dahouq said: "Faten believed she had received a guarantee of security." Two days later she was murdered. "This family had no honour, no manners, no ethics," he said. "And the girl was as honourable as could be. All she wanted to do was marry this man she loved. I think the people in her church also have responsibility for this killing. They told this family that their daughter brought shame, so that makes them part of the crime." The family priest, Father Ibrahim Hijazin, declined to talk about Faten's killing other than to say he called the Palestinian authorities to prevent her from reaching Jordan. But he says other families would have reacted as hers did. "There is no interfaith marriage among Arabs. Catholics here are Christian by faith and Muslim by culture, and in this community it is forbidden for Christians to marry Muslims. It's not good. It's a tribal mentality. I don't accept it, but it is the culture," he said. After Faten's murder, several hundred Palestinian women held a vigil in Ramallah to demand an end to honour killings...

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/23/israel]

I thought only Muslims engaged in so-called "honour killings"?  Have I been misled?

More Christian, so-called "Honour Killings":


Quote:

Christian “honour” killings are on the rise and it’s the men who are to blame yet again. Posted on 28 September 2012      by harebell More killings by insecure, violent, deranged, religious men. First a family slain by a father who couldn’t take it that someone he did not vote for might remain president. If he was worried then why didn’t he just top himself? That would have been too easy and not played to his vanity; he decided that the future was too gloomy for his boys and wife too so it would be up to the paterfamilias to take action. Then in Canada another christian idiot decides that his imaginary friend has informed him his girlfriend is pregnant and is planning an abortion; so he beats her to death and stabs bible pages to her chest. Oh and he then blames his imaginary friend for letting him do it…. He must have forgotten the nuanced and sophisticated argumentation that excuses god from actually doing stuff. Religious expression allows folk to make excuses for any action because it, by necessity precludes any requirement for the practitioner to remain in reality. That’s why it is inherently dangerous.

[http://harebell.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/christian-honour-killings-are-on-the-rise-and-its-the-men-who-are-to-blame-yet-again/]

So, where is the outrage from the apologists for Christianity?  You know, the ones who tell us only Muslims commit so-called "honour killings"?

Funny how they are silent, isn't it?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

They’re not Muslim honour killings.

Moderator, kindly move this thread to the Spirituality forum, please.

ANy religion is no excuse for murder

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 3:29pm:

ANy religion is no excuse for murder

So, where is the outrage against Christian so-called "honour" killings, SC?

Written off in one short sentence?

Appears stupendously absent, now doesn't it?   :o :o :o

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:29pm: ANy religion is no excuse for murder So, where is the outrage against Christian so-called "honour" killings, SC? Written off in one short sentence? Appears stupendously absent, now doesn't it?   :o :o :o

Don't be ridiculous. When Sprint says religion is no excuse for honour killings, he means that there is no justification for honour killings in the Bible. Everybody knows that.

When the Muslims do it, however, they're obeying the words of their evil paedophile prophet. Read the Koran, it's all there.

Ask Sprint for the appropriate verses.

He appears to be an apologist for Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings.

So, where are the other Christian apologists?  Hiding?  Doesn't that constitute apologism in and of itself?   ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

He appears to be an apologist for Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings. So, where are the other Christian apologists?  Hiding?  Doesn't that constitute apologism in and of itself?   ;D ;D ;D

What total rubbish. Why should they be diverted from exposing the honour killings of Muslims?

Are you calling for censorship?

Please explain.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 4:36pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 4:15pm: He appears to be an apologist for Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings. So, where are the other Christian apologists?  Hiding?  Doesn't that constitute apologism in and of itself?   ;D ;D ;D What total rubbish. Why should they be diverted from exposing the honour killings of Muslims? Are you calling for censorship? Please explain.

Do the crime, get the equal time!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Do the crime, get the equal time!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why on earth would anyone believe that? These are Muslims we're talking about here.

You can tell the apologists, as soon as attention is drawn to atrocities committed in the name of their religion their immediate action is to draw attention elsewhere, anywhere. 

For a good example and lessons in how to, check out Karnals a work.  It is monotonous and there is mountains of it, but it demonstrates dedication to distraction.

Watch and learn little apologist,  it is everything you aspire to be. 

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:16pm:

You can tell the apologists, as soon as attention is drawn to atrocities committed in the name of their religion their immediate action is to draw attention elsewhere, anywhere.  For a good example and lessons in how to, check out Karnals a work.  It is monotonous and there is mountains of it, but it demonstrates dedication to distraction. Watch and learn little apologist,  it is everything you aspire to be.

Its amusing watching you DL.  Everytime you feel pressed on one thing you sneak off and try and flank a person with an attack on a completely different topic.

This topic is about Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings.  You've often asked that separate, comparable threads be created about the antics of Christians and here is one and you're criticising it!  Weird and amusing.  You're given what you wanted and you still criticise it.

So, do you condemn Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings, DL or will we put you down as another apologist?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

So, do you condemn Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings, DL or will we put you down as another apologist?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I am an equal opportunity hater, I condemn all acts of buggerbuggery committed in the name of sky pixies.  You won't see distractions, diversions, red herrings or fingers pointing the other way from me.


Quote:

You've often asked that separate, comparable threads be created about the antics of Christians and here is one and you're criticising it!

I have?  You should be able to find and post a few examples then.  And I am not criticising the thread, I applaud it, at last no excuse for yourself and Karnal to run interference in the ones dedicated atrocities in the name of the religion of peace.

You can post all your acts of  buggerbuggery in the name of jebus  here.   Or will the apologist continue to run interference for Big Mo?  I am betting they will, long term habits of apology, flexible outrage and moral relativism are hard to break.

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:16pm:

You can tell the apologists, as soon as attention is drawn to atrocities committed in the name of their religion their immediate action is to draw attention elsewhere, anywhere.  For a good example and lessons in how to, check out Karnals a work.  It is monotonous and there is mountains of it, but it demonstrates dedication to distraction. Watch and learn little apologist,  it is everything you aspire to be.

Excuse me, I happen to be an equal-opportunity apologist. I'm trying to steer a ridiculous thread on Christian honour killings back to Islam - just as any decent, Freeedom-loving member of this board would.

If you didn't come here and derail things with your pointless talk of apologism, I'd be making a lot more progress. 

Sadly, it's thanks to people like you this country's in the mess it's in.

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:16pm: You can tell the apologists, as soon as attention is drawn to atrocities committed in the name of their religion their immediate action is to draw attention elsewhere, anywhere.  For a good example and lessons in how to, check out Karnals a work.  It is monotonous and there is mountains of it, but it demonstrates dedication to distraction. Watch and learn little apologist,  it is everything you aspire to be.  Its amusing watching you DL.  Everytime you feel pressed on one thing you sneak off and try and flank a person with an attack on a completely different topic.

Exactly. If DL wants to discuss apologism, he's free to do so in the apologism thread.

Mind you, all he wants to talk about in the apologism thread is Islam.

Typical.


Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

You won't see distractions, diversions, red herrings or fingers pointing the other way from me.

Will you confess your lie now, or do you want us to chase you around for 5 pages?

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

And I am not criticising the thread, I applaud it, at last no excuse for yourself and Karnal to run interference in the ones dedicated atrocities in the name of the religion of peace.

Much better. Try to stay on course.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Will you confess your lie now, or do you want us to chase you around for 5 pages?

Fill your boots, I got time and got a ways to go before I catch up with your massive post count.

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:54pm: Will you confess your lie now, or do you want us to chase you around for 5 pages? Fill your boots, I got time and got a ways to go before I catch up with your massive post count.

Yes, you'd like to distract me, wouldn't you? Well, I won't have it.

The Koran is full of passages about how to torture and kill women who aren't subservient enough - you won't get any argument from the Muslims on that. They're proud of it.

If a Christian in Palestine does this, where do you think they're getting their instructions?

Not from Leviticus, that's for sure.

They're getting it from Mo, and I won't be distracted from getting the truth out there. 

How long do you think it's going to be until they try to do it here?

Google: Muslims coming over here to kill our women.

+++

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:22pm: So, do you condemn Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings, DL or will we put you down as another apologist?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I am an equal opportunity hater, I condemn all acts of buggerbuggery committed in the name of sky pixies.  You won't see distractions, diversions, red herrings or fingers pointing the other way from me. Quote: You've often asked that separate, comparable threads be created about the antics of Christians and here is one and you're criticising it!  I have?  You should be able to find and post a few examples then.

Don’t you pay any attention to these people, DL. They’re ridiculous.


Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 7:03pm:

Did you ever start a Christian thread to get your questions answered or you were happy to continue to run interference and deflections in the Muslim one? People ain't silly you know.

I agree. We’re smart.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 10:33pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:40pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:22pm: So, do you condemn Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings, DL or will we put you down as another apologist?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I am an equal opportunity hater, I condemn all acts of buggerbuggery committed in the name of sky pixies.  You won't see distractions, diversions, red herrings or fingers pointing the other way from me. Quote: You've often asked that separate, comparable threads be created about the antics of Christians and here is one and you're criticising it!  I have?  You should be able to find and post a few examples then.  Don’t you pay any attention to these people, DL. They’re ridiculous. Datalife wrote on Jun 16th, 2014 at 7:03pm: Did you ever start a Christian thread to get your questions answered or you were happy to continue to run interference and deflections in the Muslim one? People ain't silly you know. I agree. We’re smart.

Key word was often. 

But I am happy that you are happy to post criticisms of acts of buggerbuggery in the name of jebus to the jebus thread and in turn I promise not to distract with comments in the jebus threads distracting and diverting to acts of bugger buggery by the religion of peace.

Can you do it?

My guess is no.  I don't give a poo about sky pixies belongum (you have no idea how long it took spell check to accept that) jebus or big Mo and happy to comment on atrocities by both.

You however seem focused on distracting attention from one. 

No worries, seems to be the thing that card carrying luvvies are required to do, defend the religion of peace at all costs to integrity or reason.

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:29pm: ANy religion is no excuse for murder So, where is the outrage against Christian so-called "honour" killings, SC? Written off in one short sentence? Appears stupendously absent, now doesn't it?   :o :o :o

It's a crime.
Should be treated a such.
If there is a continued similar behaviour, it should be queried.

No excuse can be "I killed someone, and here it says why I can."

Religion and law are different

Reply #19 - I didn’t understand a word of that. Why have we not seen a single criticism of Moslems here by the likes of you?

We get it. You’re a towel-wearer. Just don’t post any more of your Arabic mumbo-jumbo here. If you want to speak your monkey talk, go and open a thread somewhere else on Christian killings.

This is a thread about your people - murderers and criminals, the lot.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:36pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:29pm: ANy religion is no excuse for murder So, where is the outrage against Christian so-called "honour" killings, SC? Written off in one short sentence? Appears stupendously absent, now doesn't it?   :o :o :o If there is a continued similar behaviour, it should be queried.

Finally some common sense for a change.

I agree. If they kill any more of their women, send a couple of cops out to ask a few questions.

If they’re Muslims, throw the book at them.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:09pm:

Reply #19 - I didn’t understand a word of that. Why have we not seen a single criticism of Moslems here by the likes of you? We get it. You’re a towel-wearer. Just don’t post any more of your Arabic mumbo-jumbo here. If you want to speak your monkey talk, go and open a thread somewhere else on Christian killings. This is a thread about your people - murderers and criminals, the lot.

I can understand why Sprintcyclist posting in a thread dedicated to acts of buggerbuggery committed in the name of jebus that such acts should be treated as crime and no excuses allowed would confuse you so much. 

Beyond your ken. 

But I look forward to reading you excusing or distracting from acts of bugger buggery committed in the name of the religion of peace.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

No excuse can be "I killed someone, and here it says why I can." Religion and law are different

Right. If I hear of one more Moslem pulling out his Koran, pleading religion and getting off scott-free, I’m.going to go spare.

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 11:09pm: Reply #19 - I didn’t understand a word of that. Why have we not seen a single criticism of Moslems here by the likes of you? We get it. You’re a towel-wearer. Just don’t post any more of your Arabic mumbo-jumbo here. If you want to speak your monkey talk, go and open a thread somewhere else on Christian killings. This is a thread about your people - murderers and criminals, the lot. I can understand why Sprintcyclist posting in a thread dedicated to acts of buggerbuggery committed in the name of jebus that such acts should be treated as crime and no excuses allowed would confuse you so much.  Beyond your ken.  But I look forward to reading you excusing or distracting from acts of bugger buggery committed in the name of the religion of peace.

Speakie English or peace off back to Arabia with your religion of p!ss.

This thread’s about you Camel urine enthusiasts.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:21pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 11:03pm: No excuse can be "I killed someone, and here it says why I can." Religion and law are different Right. If I hear of one more Moslem pulling out his Koran, pleading religion and getting off scott-free, I’m.going to go spare.

Which country are you talking about?

Stop trying to divert.

If you must know, Sprint’s referring to New Zealand.

Thankfully, religion and law are separate there.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:31pm:

Stop trying to divert. If you must know, Sprint’s referring to New Zealand. Thankfully, they’re banned there.

LOL, stepped back real quick from that minefield eh?  Not wanting to go there are yah.   8-)

I understand.   ;D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:36pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:29pm: ANy religion is no excuse for murder So, where is the outrage against Christian so-called "honour" killings, SC? Written off in one short sentence? Appears stupendously absent, now doesn't it?   :o :o :o It's a crime. Should be treated a such.

Only in apologist countries like Oz. You Kiwis have got the right idea.

Ban them.

It’s not crime. It’s war.

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:14pm:

More Christian, so-called "Honour Killings": Quote: Christian “honour” killings are on the rise and it’s the men who are to blame yet again. Posted on 28 September 2012      by harebell More killings by insecure, violent, deranged, religious men. First a family slain by a father who couldn’t take it that someone he did not vote for might remain president. If he was worried then why didn’t he just top himself? That would have been too easy and not played to his vanity; he decided that the future was too gloomy for his boys and wife too so it would be up to the paterfamilias to take action. Then in Canada another christian idiot decides that his imaginary friend has informed him his girlfriend is pregnant and is planning an abortion; so he beats her to death and stabs bible pages to her chest. Oh and he then blames his imaginary friend for letting him do it…. He must have forgotten the nuanced and sophisticated argumentation that excuses god from actually doing stuff. Religious expression allows folk to make excuses for any action because it, by necessity precludes any requirement for the practitioner to remain in reality. That’s why it is inherently dangerous. [http://harebell.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/christian-honour-killings-are-on-the-rise-and-its-the-men-who-are-to-blame-yet-again/] So, where is the outrage from the apologists for Christianity?  You know, the ones who tell us only Muslims commit so-called "honour killings"? Funny how they are silent, isn't it?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

That's because Christians don't do honor killings. Say it till your black and blue in the face, it won't change the fact. If someone called themselves a Christian and did then they would negate the ability to call themselves a Christian. Do try and understand the Christian doctrine before blurting out nonsense.

Islam on the other hand ....  ;D

Now that stands to reason. If a Christian kills his women, it turns him into a Muslim.

Not that a Christian would do that sort of thing in the first place, just saying.

Good point, Matty.

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

That's because Christians don't do honor killings. Say it till your black and blue in the face, it won't change the fact. If someone called themselves a Christian and did then they would negate the ability to call themselves a Christian. Do try and understand the Christian doctrine before blurting out nonsense.

My, how convenient.

Problem is, the perpetrators believe they are Christians.  They've been raised as Christians and they continue to believe they are Christians after the fact.  So, who are I to disbelieve them?  Who are you to judge them?  Who set you up as the supreme arbiter of who is or isn't a Christian?  What is your authority to do so?  Who gave it to you?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Datalife wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:22pm: So, do you condemn Christianity's so-called "Honour" Killings, DL or will we put you down as another apologist?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I am an equal opportunity hater, I condemn all acts of buggerbuggery committed in the name of sky pixies.  You won't see distractions, diversions, red herrings or fingers pointing the other way from me.

Yet you didn't do it until I prodded you DL.  Interesting that.  You're like the rest, very ready to condemn Muslims for any imagined slight yet remain silent when it's Christians.  I wonder why?


Quote:

[quote]You've often asked that separate, comparable threads be created about the antics of Christians and here is one and you're criticising it!

I have?  You should be able to find and post a few examples then. 
[/quote]

[http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1402649610/92#92]

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 7:03pm:

Did you ever start a Christian thread to get your questions answered or you were happy to continue to run interference and deflections in the Muslim one? People ain't silly you know.

Proof enough?  Going to admit you're wrong?   ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

And I am not criticising the thread, I applaud it, at last no excuse for yourself and Karnal to run interference in the ones dedicated atrocities in the name of the religion of peace.

I never "run interference", I point out that what Muslims are being condemned for occurs in other religions as well.  Why do you have a problem with that?  Do you believe there should be no comparison of Islam with say, Christianity?   ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

You can post all your acts of  buggerbuggery in the name of jebus  here.   Or will the apologist continue to run interference for Big Mo?  I am betting they will, long term habits of apology, flexible outrage and moral relativism are hard to break.

Big Mo can stand on his own two feet.  It's the Muslims who have committed no crime other than guilt by association, sharing a religious name with the committers of crime whom I'm concerned with, DL.  You just want to hate everybody for everything it seems, right?   :D :D :D :D

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 4:55pm: Do the crime, get the equal time!   ;D ;D ;D ;D Why on earth would anyone believe that? These are Muslims we're talking about here.

Oh, yeah, sorry, I suppose I should get "on message", then?  Go with the groupthink? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:36pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:29pm: ANy religion is no excuse for murder So, where is the outrage against Christian so-called "honour" killings, SC? Written off in one short sentence? Appears stupendously absent, now doesn't it?   :o :o :o It's a crime. Should be treated a such. If there is a continued similar behaviour, it should be queried.

Sure you aren't trying to be an apologist for what seems to be continued similar behaviour by all those Christians out there?  You wrote it off in one short sentence, effectively a shrug of the shoulders, SC.  That is very much apologism I think!  Tsk, tsk!   ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

No excuse can be "I killed someone, and here it says why I can." Religion and law are different

Yet here we have Christians doing exactly that, justifying their killing through scripture.  Stop being an apologist for it, SC!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

O :oM :oF :oG

Crazies in the ME killing each other!!!

I think this is more about the region than the religion.

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

O :oM :oF :oG Crazies in the ME killing each other!!! I think this is more about the region than the religion.

I am sure Karnal will be along soon to disabuse you of that notion...   ;D ;D ;D ;D

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

O :oM :oF :oG Crazies in the ME killing each other!!! I think this is more about the region than the religion.

WHAT? Have you gone out of your MIND? These are MOSLEMS we’re talking about here, not "Middle Easterners". This is spineless apologism of the most twisted, drug-addled, and even criminal imagination. When FD says he wants to detain and exile all who stand against Freeedom, this is just the sort of thing he’s talking about.

Moslems yes, but these people are even worse than them. At least we know exactly what the Moslems think. Types like this are just traitors.

I’d hang the lot, but that’s just me. Once, FD would have stepped in to protect their Freeedom, but as a defender of people’s civil liberties, FD has always been remarkably tolerant and forgiving.

Not anymore. Now we’re at war, FD agrees. These people deserve nothing more than a rope.

See, told you so...   ;D ;D ;D ;D

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

I think this is more about the region than the religion.

heresy.

Karnal wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 11:36am:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 10:54am: O :oM :oF :oG Crazies in the ME killing each other!!! I think this is more about the region than the religion. WHAT? Have you gone out of your MIND? These are MOSLEMS we’re talking about here, not "Middle Easterners". This is spineless apologism of the most twisted, drug-addled, and even criminal imagination. When FD says he wants to detain and exile all who stand against Freeedom, this is just the sort of thing he’s talking about. Moslems yes, but these people are even worse than them. At least we know exactly what the Moslems think. Types like this are just traitors. I’d hang the lot, but that’s just me. Once, FD would have stepped in to protect their Freeedom, but as a defender of people’s civil liberties, FD has always been remarkably tolerant and forgiving. Not anymore. Now we’re at war, FD agrees. These people deserve nothing more than a rope.

I thought it was about Christians in Palestine.

It's about Christians anywhere, undertaking so-called "Honour" Killings.  The second example quoted links to stories from Canada and the US.

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 12:51pm:

It's about Christians anywhere, undertaking so-called "Honour" Killings.  The second example quoted links to stories from Canada and the US.

The sooner people join together to mock ALL these religions and their made up garbage the better.

Anyone that thinks what they are doing has any "honour" attached should be shot with a ball of their own sh!t.

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 11:36am: King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 10:54am: O :oM :oF :oG Crazies in the ME killing each other!!! I think this is more about the region than the religion. WHAT? Have you gone out of your MIND? These are MOSLEMS we’re talking about here, not "Middle Easterners". This is spineless apologism of the most twisted, drug-addled, and even criminal imagination. When FD says he wants to detain and exile all who stand against Freeedom, this is just the sort of thing he’s talking about. Moslems yes, but these people are even worse than them. At least we know exactly what the Moslems think. Types like this are just traitors. I’d hang the lot, but that’s just me. Once, FD would have stepped in to protect their Freeedom, but as a defender of people’s civil liberties, FD has always been remarkably tolerant and forgiving. Not anymore. Now we’re at war, FD agrees. These people deserve nothing more than a rope. I thought it was about Christians in Palestine.

This is a thread about militant Islam and its threat to global security. You can take your cowardly apologist diversion tactics to your pathetic refugee support group. We won't cop your spineless Moslem apeasement here, you know.

If you want to distract the debate with insipid red herrings about Palestinian Christians, you're free to start a discussion in a new thread. Otherwise, grow some balls.

Friyay clearly hates freeedom

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 12:51pm: It's about Christians anywhere, undertaking so-called "Honour" Killings.  The second example quoted links to stories from Canada and the US. The sooner people join together to mock ALL these religions and their made up garbage the better.

The only people on this thread making up garbage are Moslem sympathisers like you.

You'll all be dealt with in the fullness of time.

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 12:51pm: It's about Christians anywhere, undertaking so-called "Honour" Killings.  The second example quoted links to stories from Canada and the US. The sooner people join together to mock ALL these religions and their made up garbage the better.

Another equal opportunity hater who seems to be silent when it comes to Christian crimes.  I detect a smidgeon of hypocrisy there...   ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

Anyone that thinks what they are doing has any "honour" attached should be shot with a ball of their own sh!t.

Really?  Yet you seem to be with holding your outrage where Christians are concerned...   ;D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 2:01pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 1:05pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 12:51pm: It's about Christians anywhere, undertaking so-called "Honour" Killings.  The second example quoted links to stories from Canada and the US. The sooner people join together to mock ALL these religions and their made up garbage the better. Another equal opportunity hater who seems to be silent when it comes to Christian crimes.  I detect a smidgeon of hypocrisy there...   ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote: Anyone that thinks what they are doing has any "honour" attached should be shot with a ball of their own sh!t. Really?  Yet you seem to be with holding your outrage where Christians are concerned...   ;D ;D ;D ;D

LOL i've never bought up any muslum or christian crimes!

Murder is murder.

Yes?

All dispicable acts no matter what stupid make believe crap you follow.

;)

So, where is your outrage against these Christians?

Oh, thats right it is only reserved for Muslims!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 2:23pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 2:01pm: King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 1:05pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 12:51pm: It's about Christians anywhere, undertaking so-called "Honour" Killings.  The second example quoted links to stories from Canada and the US. The sooner people join together to mock ALL these religions and their made up garbage the better. Another equal opportunity hater who seems to be silent when it comes to Christian crimes.  I detect a smidgeon of hypocrisy there...   ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote: Anyone that thinks what they are doing has any "honour" attached should be shot with a ball of their own sh!t. Really?  Yet you seem to be with holding your outrage where Christians are concerned...   ;D ;D ;D ;D LOL i've never bought up any muslum or christian crimes! Murder is murder. Yes?

Spineless, limp-wristed crap. At least the Moslems are honest about their duplicity.

You people will make excuses for Islam until you're blue in the face.

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

So, where is your outrage against these Christians? Oh, thats right it is only reserved for Muslims!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bloody oath.

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

So, where is your outrage against these Christians? Oh, thats right it is only reserved for Muslims!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Are you talking to yourself?

Ok i'm outraged that these christians murdered someone.

There, you ok now Tooley? ::)

That said murder is murder, Muslim Xtian athiest...

Shouldn't we be outraged about all murders?

Karnal wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 1:55pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 12:31pm: Karnal wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 11:36am: King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 10:54am: O :oM :oF :oG Crazies in the ME killing each other!!! I think this is more about the region than the religion. WHAT? Have you gone out of your MIND? These are MOSLEMS we’re talking about here, not "Middle Easterners". This is spineless apologism of the most twisted, drug-addled, and even criminal imagination. When FD says he wants to detain and exile all who stand against Freeedom, this is just the sort of thing he’s talking about. Moslems yes, but these people are even worse than them. At least we know exactly what the Moslems think. Types like this are just traitors. I’d hang the lot, but that’s just me. Once, FD would have stepped in to protect their Freeedom, but as a defender of people’s civil liberties, FD has always been remarkably tolerant and forgiving. Not anymore. Now we’re at war, FD agrees. These people deserve nothing more than a rope. I thought it was about Christians in Palestine. This is a thread about militant Islam and its threat to global security. You can take your cowardly apologist diversion tactics to your pathetic refugee support group. We won't cop your spineless Moslem apeasement here, you know. If you want to distract the debate with insipid red herrings about Palestinian Christians, you're free to start a discussion in a new thread. Otherwise, grow some balls.

YESSIREE SIR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXjSXEYBkyk

People of all persuasions (religious, pagan, agnostic, atheist) commit murder.

What the muslim apologists are trying to do is hide the truth about the teachings of Christ, verses the teachings of muhammad.

So what did each of them have to say regarding revenge / honour killings of women?


From the New Testament and the Word of Christ:
John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
John 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
John 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
John 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion.

Then we have from the qur'an and the teachings of muhammad:
qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

muhammad and the quran say to kill them

moses wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

People of all persuasions (religious, pagan, agnostic, atheist) commit murder. What the muslim apologists are trying to do is hide the truth about the teachings of Christ, verses the teachings of muhammad. So what did each of them have to say regarding revenge / honour killings of women? From the New Testament and the Word of Christ: John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, John 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. John 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion. Then we have from the qur'an and the teachings of muhammad: qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.” muhammad and the quran say to kill them

Yeah? Two can play the apology game.


Quote:

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Quote:

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Quote:

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

Quote:

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

You people are mugs. I blame Islam.

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 3:31pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 2:38pm: So, where is your outrage against these Christians? Oh, thats right it is only reserved for Muslims!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Are you talking to yourself? Ok i'm outraged that these christians murdered someone.

Liar.

Karnal wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 5:15pm:

moses wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 5:03pm: People of all persuasions (religious, pagan, agnostic, atheist) commit murder. What the muslim apologists are trying to do is hide the truth about the teachings of Christ, verses the teachings of muhammad. So what did each of them have to say regarding revenge / honour killings of women? From the New Testament and the Word of Christ: John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, John 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. John 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion. Then we have from the qur'an and the teachings of muhammad: qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.” muhammad and the quran say to kill them Yeah? Two can play the apology game. Quote: A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) [quote] If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Quote:

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

Quote:

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

You people are mugs. I blame Islam. [/quote]

A pretend muslim quoting the old covenant as christianity.   ;D ;D ;D

Doesn't even know what he is quoting  ;D

I blame Islam too.

I don’t care if you blame Islam or not. You’re still a prat for playing diversion tactics in a thread on Islamic-decreed honour killings.

As a Christian, you’d probably try to forgive these people.

Angry little man ain't ya  ;D

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 7:17pm:

Angry little man ain't ya  ;D

Yeah. Angry with Bible-bashing softcock apologists like you.

We had a good country once. Multicultural powder puffs from your side gave it away to the towel-heads long ago.

If you’re not angry, you’re responsible.

Oh petal are you still upset, take a deep breath.  ;D

@ Karnal



Quote:

[quote] moses wrote: People of all persuasions (religious, pagan, agnostic, atheist) commit murder. What the muslim apologists are trying to do is hide the truth about the teachings of Christ, verses the teachings of muhammad. So what did each of them have to say regarding revenge / honour killings of women? From the New Testament and the Word of Christ: John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, John 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. John 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion. Then we have from the qur'an and the teachings of muhammad: qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.” muhammad and the quran say to kill them

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Yeah? Two can play the apology game. A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB) Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

[/quote]

Is honesty simply not part of the muslim apologist's tool kit Karnal?

Why are you dishonestly quoting the Old Testament?

My statement was a comparison of the teachings of Jesus versus the teachings of muhammad, why are you trying to dodge the issue by referring to O.T.?

Since you are so dishonest, once again for your benefit:

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

So I'll state again:

Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion.

muhammad and the quran say to kill them

Pretend muslims aren't that smart, just like real ones who are embarrassed with the made up quaran and its teachings. They have no idea how to understand their own teachings let alone anyone elses.

Tell us why you’re called Moses, Moses. Where did that name come from?

And stop filling up pages with bullsh!t Bible quotes no one’s gonna read.

give him a break K, moses is taking a well earned break from cracking hilarious jokes about Muhammad.

How spineless. Anyone who makes light of a murdering paedophile should be banned, IMO.

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 3:31pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 2:38pm: So, where is your outrage against these Christians? Oh, thats right it is only reserved for Muslims!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Are you talking to yourself? Ok i'm outraged that these christians murdered someone. There, you ok now Tooley? ::) That said murder is murder, Muslim Xtian athiest... Shouldn't we be outraged about all murders?

Yes.  So, you're not outraged by murders?   Doesn't that contradict your earlier declaration?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 7:07pm:

A pretend muslim quoting the old covenant as christianity.   ;D ;D ;D Doesn't even know what he is quoting  ;D I blame Islam too.

The Old Testament is still a part of fundamental Christian teachings.  It forms more than half of the Christian holy book, the Bible.   It is the teachings most often quoted by fundementalist Christians when justifying their atrocities.  They claim they are Christians.  They claim they are following their religious beliefs.  Who are we to deny their beliefs in their religion?  Who set you up as the arbiter of all matters Christianity and religion?  Who gave you the authority to deny your fellow Christians?   Well?  Well?

Stop being an apologist for Christian crimes!!!!  Stop making excuses for them!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

At least Christians have a New Testament and the teachings of Christ, as an integral part of their doctrine.

Now to use the apologist excuse: **They claim they are Christians.  They claim they are following their religious beliefs.  Who are we to deny their beliefs in their religion? **

The real question is do muslim apologists believe that muslims who commit murder, rape and torture, who practice honour killings, who oppress and denigrate non muslims, are genuine muslims?

They believe they are muslims, they follow the commands of allah, they follow the teachings of muhammad, they follow to the letter the verses in the qur'an and hadi'th, which command them to commit atrocities in the name of islam.

So I take it that muslim apologists  accept wholeheartedly these degenerate people as true and genuine muslims, after all there is no grey area,  they have not stepped one inch outside of the doctrinal guidelines ordained for them by allah, muhammad. islam, qur'an

moses wrote on Jun 19^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

At least Christians have a New Testament and the teachings of Christ, as an integral part of their doctrine.

So what?  It's invariably ignored by those that commit atrocities so whats the point in having it? 


Quote:

Now to use the apologist excuse: **They claim they are Christians.  They claim they are following their religious beliefs.  Who are we to deny their beliefs in their religion?

No excuse.  You are the apologist who says, "Hey, these people aren't really Christians!"  Religious belief is not binary, it can't be switched off or on.  It's amorphous, like a fog, it covers everything a believer does.  The Old Testament is a fundamental part of Christianity and you can't just disown it when it suits you.  It is a part of your holy book, it is an extremely important part of your holy book and despite what you claim, the New Testament makes no sense without the Old in front of it!   ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

The real question is do muslim apologists believe that muslims who commit murder, rape and torture, who practice honour killings, who oppress and denigrate non muslims, are genuine muslims?

Immaterial.  We are discussing CHRISTIANS who commit so-called "Honour" Killings.  They justify it often with religious teachings.   Do they believe they are being real Christians when they commit these crimes?  Yes, they do so no matter how much you deny them, they are still Christians!   

Christian apologists though, instead of owning up to the inspirations for their fellow Christian criminals try and disown them at the first chance!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

So you won't answer the question?

Hot Breath wrote:

Quote:

Immaterial.  We are discussing CHRISTIANS who commit so-called "Honour" Killings.  They justify it often with religious teachings.   Do they believe they are being real Christians when they commit these crimes?  Yes, they do so no matter how much you deny them, they are still Christians!    Christian apologists though, instead of owning up to the inspirations for their fellow Christian criminals try and disown them at the first chance!

Factual evidence shows that these killers are indeed rejected for their actions .

As I see it the Word of Christ would be the final adjudicator on the validity of their claims to Christianity.

So what does Christian doctrine say?

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Christian doctrine rejects workers of iniquity, seems pretty clear to me.

Unless you can show that you have greater authority than the Word of Christ in doctrinal matters, I'll go with the literal evidence of the N.T.

Oh by the way do you accept the muslim murderer, rapist, torturer as the true muslim?

He believes he is, the commands of allah, teachings of muhammad, verses in qur'an and islamic doctrine all say he is the true muslim.

What do you say?

So why do they have priests at executions?

moses wrote on Jun 19^th, 2014 at 5:06pm:

So you won't answer the question?

I did.  What you don't like the answer?  How unfortunate for you!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

moses wrote on Jun 19^th, 2014 at 5:55pm:

Hot Breath wrote: Quote: Immaterial.  We are discussing CHRISTIANS who commit so-called "Honour" Killings.  They justify it often with religious teachings.   Do they believe they are being real Christians when they commit these crimes?  Yes, they do so no matter how much you deny them, they are still Christians!    Christian apologists though, instead of owning up to the inspirations for their fellow Christian criminals try and disown them at the first chance! Factual evidence shows that these killers are indeed rejected for their actions .

Thank you for demonstrating my point for me.  Must be nice being so unforgiving when you're a Christian, knowing you'll be jettisoned by the religion which inspired you to your acts of cruelty.   :D :D :D :D

Why does the church recruit in places like jails?

There are always two sides to any story.

One side is based on truth substantiated by verifiable facts.

The other side is based on deceit and lies.

In the case of who or what is a Christian, the two sides of the claim have to be taken into account E.G.:

Are there any confirmable facts, which establish the criteria for being a Christian?

An undisputed fact would be the standards set by Christ in His teachings:

Mat 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So an unchallenged fact is that Christ certainly set a criteria for being a Christian.

What man does or thinks is beside the point. Christ set the rules they are supreme in Christian doctrine.

Now go to the other side of the dispute, where muslim apologists try to equate Christianity with their fraudulent statements.

The deceitful muslim apologist is using what is known as:

A priori knowledge of Christianity 


From the dictionary priori means:

Adjective: a priori
Involving deductive reasoning from a general principle to a necessary effect; not supported by fact

Adverb: a priori
Derived by logic, without observed fact


So there it is, not a single fact to support a muslim apologist's statement, simply fabricated lies / the logic of deceit to suit themselves, to obtain the necessary effect.

moses wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

There are always two sides to any story.

Unless of course its a Muslim telling it, right Moses?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Why does the church recruit in places like jails?

I believe that Christian doctrine says a repenting sinner can be forgiven.

However you and the other apologists are not talking about repenting sinners are you?

You are trying to lie and say that someone who has willfully committed an atrocious sin in direct contravention of the Word of Christ, is a Christian simply because he says he is.

Truth and fact on one side.

Lies and deceit on the other (the one the muslim apologist takes) Karnal

Hot Breath wrote:
Quote:

Unless of course its a Muslim telling it, right Moses?

There's two sides to every story.

There are verifiable facts, the truth on one side.

There is the excuse, the lies and deception on the other.

I haven't seen any verifiable facts or truth from muslim apologists so far

moses wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:29pm:

Hot Breath wrote: Quote: Unless of course its a Muslim telling it, right Moses? There's two sides to every story. There are verifiable facts, the truth on one side. There is the excuse, the lies and deception on the other. I haven't seen any verifiable facts or truth from muslim apologists so far

You contradict yourself, Moses but you always have.  As HB suggested, you don't believe in there being two sides to this story.  You believe only your own delusions.   ::) ::)

moses wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

There are always two sides to any story. One side is based on truth substantiated by verifiable facts. The other side is based on deceit and lies. In the case of who or what is a Christian, the two sides of the claim have to be taken into account E.G.: Are there any confirmable facts, which establish the criteria for being a Christian? An undisputed fact would be the standards set by Christ in His teachings: Mat 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mar 7:7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. So an unchallenged fact is that Christ certainly set a criteria for being a Christian. What man does or thinks is beside the point. Christ set the rules they are supreme in Christian doctrine. Now go to the other side of the dispute, where muslim apologists try to equate Christianity with their fraudulent statements. The deceitful muslim apologist is using what is known as: A priori knowledge of Christianity  From the dictionary priori means: Adjective: a priori Involving deductive reasoning from a general principle to a necessary effect; not supported by fact Adverb: a priori Derived by logic, without observed fact So there it is, not a single fact to support a muslim apologist's statement, simply fabricated lies / the logic of deceit to suit themselves, to obtain the necessary effect.

Not only that their book Qur'an states that they are allowed to do that and in fact encourages it.