CLIVE Palmer has become the wrecking ball of Australian politics, carving a further $10 billion hole out of the federal Budget this week with a series of stunts that senior Coalition­ members now claim are based on one motive only — to destroy the Abbott government. 
 
Yesterday the erratic mining baron and member for Fairfax spectacularly reneged on a second promise to support the repeal of the carbon tax, with three of his PUP senators voting with the Greens and Labor to defeat the bill.

The 11th-hour backflip has sparked a new fiscal crisis for the government, which now faces the possible blockage of an estimated $55 billion in Budget measures.

It is also the second rejection by the senate of a bill to abolish the tax, providing yet another trigger for Prime Minister Tony Abbott to call a double-dissolution election.

But with the carbon tax set to dominate parliament again next week — the last before the winter break — there are fears that crucial national security legislation due to be introduced next week may be delayed until later in the year.

Last night the controversial figure then created more headlines when he stormed out of an interview for ABC’s 7.30 when the questions moved from his party’s actions towards the carbon tax repeal to his legal battle with a Chinese business partner.

Palmer justified his party’s decision to vote against the repeal of the carbon tax by accusing the government of failing to circulate his amendments to impose penalties on companies that failed to pass on cost savings to consumers, which the government had agreed to at 9.30am.

Coalition sources, however, now fear Mr Palmer is deliberately attempting to scuttle the bills after it was revealed his amendments were unconstitutional, as they were drafted as a tax instead of a penalty and would not have been able to be introduced into the senate anyway.

While the government was careful not to antagonise Mr Palmer, ministers concede privately they’re at a loss as to how to deal with him.

The government will reintroduce the bills to the lower house next Monday, with Mr Palmer’s amendments for 250 per cent fines for companies who fail to pass on savings.

It will attempt to gag debate to ensure the bills are able to reach the senate again by Monday afternoon, where a guillotine will be used to bring on an immediate vote. Government sources conceded that if it failed for a third time to get the repeal bill passed, the promise to axe the tax could be doomed.

“If it doesn’t pass Monday, then it will be a sign that Palmer is not interested and he is just playing politics,” a senior source said.

This week, Mr Palmer has exacted demands that would punch a further $10 billion hole in the Budget — including threats to block government bills to abolish income tax cuts, low-income compensation measures and abolition of the school kids bonus.

Ricky Muir, the Motoring Enthusiast senator from Victoria, is also demanding the government retain the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, punching a further $1.5 billion hole in the budget savings.

The government claims the total Budget measures under threat from a coalition of Labor, Greens and PUP senators threatening to block various bills has reached $55 billion — more than the deficit it was left with by the former Labor government.

Environment minister Greg Hunt warned the carbon tax needed to be repealed sooner rather than later to achieve savings for consumers, with business and power companies in limbo. “At the moment, every day is an $11 million cost in power bills to families and businesses but it is also important that the markets are given the certainty and we are hopeful, and we believe that it is necessary, that these bills should be passed by the end of next week,” he said.

PUP senators Glenn Lazarus, Jacqui Lambie and Dio Wang voted with Labor and the Greens to defeat the repeal bills yesterday. The Greens welcomed the vote.

The Business Council of Australia said the delays were causing uncertainty, releasing data showing the carbon tax was responsible for 20 per cent of the electricity bill of a large business and 6 per cent for a typical home.

BCA president Catherine Livingstone said: “Repealing the carbon tax must be the first step in reducing Australia’s electricity prices and developing a coherent and integrated energy and climate change policy that maintains our competitiveness and energy advantages while helping Australia to contribute to global emissions reductions. Failure by the parliament to repeal the carbon tax by next week will create significant uncertainty for businesses.’’

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/clive-palmers-crazy-crusade-leaves-budget-in-tatters-with-further-10-billion-hole-created/story-fni0cx12-1229684936860

the libs can't help it ... everything they touch turns to sh1t

if I was abbott I would leave the mining tax in place...

make changes to it so that it actually pays..

unlike the way that the incompetent Labor/Green coalition left it..  ::)

No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :)

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:56am:

No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :)

gillard didn't ever claim she had a mandate to intoduce it  :D :D :D

In the lead-up to the September 2013 election, three parties promised to repeal the carbon tax: the Coalition, Labor and PUP. Two of the three are now reneging  on that promise. Two of the three cannot be trusted. Two of the three deserve to be punished by voters at the next election. The Coalition has a massive mandate to repeal the carbon tax - that is a fact that is simply beyond debate. Unless Labor wants to remain in Opposition indefinitely and PUP wants to be a one-term wonder, they need to get behind the government on this repeal bill.

Clive is a fat oaf, dumb, self serving piece of jello and his PUP senators are the most shockingly retarded ,unfit for office, personality disordered numpties.

Now the fact that Abbott, Hockey, Corman ,Abetz etc would be played for absolute fools by this bunch of low lifes, shows just how inept they are.

Shame, rightards, Shame.

Call a DD , put a small business person in every electorate, run with Morrison at the helm and tell the Australian people to get their act together and stop voting in this unrepresentative swill.

PUP, motoring enthusiasts, what a banana republic.

Better to go down with a loss then preside over this circus

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:18am:

Clive is a fat oaf, dumb, self serving piece of jello and his PUP senators are the most shockingly retarded ,unfit for office, personality disordered numpties. Now the fact that Abbott, Hockey, Corman ,Abetz etc would be played for absolute fools by this bunch of low lifes, shows just how inept they are. Shame, rightards, Shame. Call a DD , put a small business person in every electorate, run with Morrison at the helm and tell the Australian people to get their act together and stop voting in this unrepresentative swill. PUP, motoring enthusiasts, what a banana republic. Better to go down with a loss then preside over this circus

BANANA REPUBLIC IS DEAD RIGHT..


and the left are smirking in the shadows they do know if they get back in he will turn his other face towards them... he has several..he hates labor more than the libs.. but he is careful with his words and is soooo petty and vindictive he doesnt care what he does to this country...

YOU ARE A LIAR CLIVE UP THERE WITH GILLARD...

A MASSIVE LIAR...

once again it was only a few short months ago he said he would vote out the carbon tax...oh boy..

do we ever deserve what we get... well some of us.

Oh, we're talking stunts now are we?

How about the government truncating debate yesterday to force an early vote, meaning the amendment could not be considered as it had not been placed two hours from the vote?

How about the government trying to pull a fast one on Palmer by drawing up the amendment and making it completely toothless in contradiction to what had previously been negotiated?

It is through the Liberals own utter incompetence yesterday that we still have a carbon tax. 

Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele.

The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later.

Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.

To be fair, the title should read, the cost of Palmer's spotlighting liberal incompetence and squirminess...

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.

;) ;)
Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups.
Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look.
Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel.

politics is all about winning.

The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax,
Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes.

Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak.

The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:56am:

No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :)

I deny it. Mandates are nonsense.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax, Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes. Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak. The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess.

there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election  it wont include the senate..

where  he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands...

has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt]  never stays around for any tough questions..

anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods..

Kytro wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 8:56am: No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :) I deny it. Mandates are nonsense.

it depends how loud they beat the drum BEFORE the election..and lets face it Abbott said he would repeal from day one.. all the way through...no ifs or buts... everyone knew he meant it and everyone knew he would be held to account....after the gillard LIE...

so yes I would say he had a mandate..

and its out peculiar way for voting that has created this mess....and we now have a group of wannabees in  POWER....

that we truly didnt really elect...

the system did..

cods wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:48am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax, Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes. Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak. The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess. there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election  it wont include the senate.. where  he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands... has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt]  never stays around for any tough questions.. anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods..

cods... he tired to do an interview yesterday after he wrecked the Australian parliament, but he couldn't take the heat and walked out..

cods wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:48am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax, Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes. Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak. The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess. there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election  it wont include the senate.. where  he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands... has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt]  never stays around for any tough questions.. anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods..

He's not got the right temperament for politics.
A shrewd opponent would make mincemeat of him.
Tony's simply a bit of a retard when it comes to this sort of machievellian stuff.
John Howard, Peter Costello....they would have played clive, not let clive play them.
Goes to "fitness to rule"
If you let an oaf like clive and a motoring enthusiast (lol) and people like SHY and Milne get the better of you , it speaks volumes that you aren't fit to rule.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:04am:

In the lead-up to the September 2013 election, three parties promised to repeal the carbon tax: the Coalition, Labor and PUP. Two of the three are now reneging  on that promise. Two of the three cannot be trusted. Two of the three deserve to be punished by voters at the next election. The Coalition has a massive mandate to repeal the carbon tax - that is a fact that is simply beyond debate. Unless Labor wants to remain in Opposition indefinitely and PUP wants to be a one-term wonder, they need to get behind the government on this repeal bill.

The ALP said they would replace it with a full ETS, since the Abbott government isn't doing that they have no need to back the legislation. PUP as far a I am aware is backing the repeal, just not allowing the government to package whatever they wish with it.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning.

Er, government is all about governing, dear. Stability and predictability in government was another of those Abbott promises that are now by the wayside - Mr Abbott even promised not to do any deals with minor parties.

But tell me this - what would have been the point of getting rid of the carbon tax if the savings were not passed onto consumers? If yesterday's bill had gone through, the last 4 years of carbon tax moans would have been for nought. The Libs would have removed the tax.

But consumers would be paying exactly the same for CO2 products.

Politics might be about winning, but it's about winning things for Australian voters.

The cost of Palmers' demands are not budgeted as they not be budgetary items. Clive's Party with Senators Corporate bound under law to obey Clive until 1st December 2016.

Either the Liberal-National Government concedes to Clive's private demands of self protection and pass legislation so, or he will destroy the electoral value of both Liberal and National Parties.

To ensure such occur Palmer Senators signed contract legally binding them to obey Clive (see constitution) till the 1st December 2016 or appear in Court on breech of contract.

Palmer isnt reneging to repeal it, he is ensuring consumers are protected when it is by putting legislative penalties in place for companies who dont do the right thing.

Abbott should have already had such clauses in place if he was any sort of man.

cods wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:52am:

Kytro wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:45am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 8:56am: No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :) I deny it. Mandates are nonsense. it depends how loud they beat the drum BEFORE the election..and lets face it Abbott said he would repeal from day one.. all the way through...no ifs or buts... everyone knew he meant it and everyone knew he would be held to account....after the gillard LIE... so yes I would say he had a mandate.. and its out peculiar way for voting that has created this mess....and we now have a group of wannabees in  POWER.... that we truly didnt really elect... the system did..

Makes no difference. Either you have the power or you do not. Other elected parties have as much of a "mandate" to pursue their polices as anyone else.

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:01am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. Er, government is all about governing, dear. Stability and predictability in government was another of those Abbott promises that are now by the wayside - Mr Abbott even promised not to do any deals with minor parties. But tell me this - what would have been the point of getting rid of the carbon tax if the savings were not passed onto consumers? If yesterday's bill had gone through, the last 4 years of carbon tax moans would have been for nought. The Libs would have removed the tax. But consumers would be paying exactly the same for CO2 products. Politics might be about winning, but it's about winning things for Australian voters.

How can you tell how much prices should drop. some businesses would have absorbed the costs, some wouldn't, it would require an army of public servants to work out who should reduce what and by how much.
Its why governments should stick to their core business

Border security
Employing a few cleaners at the war memorial
And funding  a competitive private sector to run health, education, transport, science.

A good government, like a good child , should be seen but not heard.

Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed.

Just hand it all over to the private sector. It appears the public sector are incapable of doing anything but going round in circles.

ROTFLMAO@ the conga line, tissues girls?
;D ;D ;D

---

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:14am:

Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 10:01am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. Er, government is all about governing, dear. Stability and predictability in government was another of those Abbott promises that are now by the wayside - Mr Abbott even promised not to do any deals with minor parties. But tell me this - what would have been the point of getting rid of the carbon tax if the savings were not passed onto consumers? If yesterday's bill had gone through, the last 4 years of carbon tax moans would have been for nought. The Libs would have removed the tax. But consumers would be paying exactly the same for CO2 products. Politics might be about winning, but it's about winning things for Australian voters. How can you tell how much prices should drop. some businesses would have absorbed the costs, some wouldn't, it would require an army of public servants to work out who should reduce what and by how much. Its why governments should stick to their core business

So why have you been complaining for the last 4 years about the cost of the carbon tax?

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:22am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 10:14am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 10:01am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. Er, government is all about governing, dear. Stability and predictability in government was another of those Abbott promises that are now by the wayside - Mr Abbott even promised not to do any deals with minor parties. But tell me this - what would have been the point of getting rid of the carbon tax if the savings were not passed onto consumers? If yesterday's bill had gone through, the last 4 years of carbon tax moans would have been for nought. The Libs would have removed the tax. But consumers would be paying exactly the same for CO2 products. Politics might be about winning, but it's about winning things for Australian voters. How can you tell how much prices should drop. some businesses would have absorbed the costs, some wouldn't, it would require an army of public servants to work out who should reduce what and by how much. Its why governments should stick to their core business So why have you been complaining for the last 4 years about the cost of the carbon tax?

Blah, not me karmal, the cost doesn't worry me at all. its the complexity and uncertainty that affects business.
And threatening big penalties fi you don't drop prices ...  What the hell does that even mean for how a business runs. Is the government going to set the price of Qantas fares?  how insane

cods wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:52am:

Kytro wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:45am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 8:56am: No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :) I deny it. Mandates are nonsense. it depends how loud they beat the drum BEFORE the election..and lets face it Abbott said he would repeal from day one.. all the way through...no ifs or buts... everyone knew he meant it and everyone knew he would be held to account....after the gillard LIE... so yes I would say he had a mandate.. and its out peculiar way for voting that has created this mess....and we now have a group of wannabees in  POWER.... that we truly didnt really elect... the system did..

He also said from day 1
* No negotiation with minor parties
* If it wasn't repealed he'd call an election


Well Well Well, look at this thread, a big whinge because Clive wouldn't do as Tony wanted.

*so negotiating with minors
* no election called

See above
I look forward to you calling Abbott a liar.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:58am:

cods wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:52am: Kytro wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:45am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 8:56am: No one can deny that Abbott has a mandate to scrap the carbon tax, just like Gillard never had a mandate to introduce it. :) I deny it. Mandates are nonsense. it depends how loud they beat the drum BEFORE the election..and lets face it Abbott said he would repeal from day one.. all the way through...no ifs or buts... everyone knew he meant it and everyone knew he would be held to account....after the gillard LIE... so yes I would say he had a mandate.. and its out peculiar way for voting that has created this mess....and we now have a group of wannabees in  POWER.... that we truly didnt really elect... the system did.. He also said from day 1 * No negotiation with minor parties * If it wasn't repealed he'd call an election Well Well Well, look at this thread, a big whinge because Clive wouldn't do as Tony wanted. *so negotiating with minors * no election called See above I look forward to you calling Abbott a liar.

Lyings not a concern. i'd call him a fool not to call a DD if palmer continues with this. Otherwise, each day he looks weaker and weaker.
And weakness is death in politics.
Ask Gillard.

aquascoot:

Quote:

Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed.

He claimed thousands in expenses for a couple of hours 'charity' ride .....   what would a ride around Australia cost us in expenses?

Cliff48 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:28pm:

aquascoot: Quote: Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed. He claimed thousands in expenses for a couple of hours 'charity' ride .....   what would a ride around Australia cost us in expenses?

Actually, whilst Canberra remains part of Australia he is not in a position to say it is closed, given Australia is apparently "open for business..."

I see a lot of posts in this thread, however, none of them actually have articulated exactly what the supposed "cost" is.

Ironically, now there is at least one poster who apparently cannot articulate what the exact cost of the carbon tax is, yet we apparently need to get rid of it because of the cost....

Here is the problem.

Mr Abbott campaigned hard on the savings that would be shared by ALL Australians with his repeal of the Carbon tax. Given the Carbon tax was not actually responsible for the majority of price gouging that went on, this was in effect a blatant lie.

Mr Palmer has merely played Mr Abbott about his own (Abbott's) lies. In effect, the Government cannot give a guarantee that business will pass on savings to the public from repealing the Carbon Tax. As such, however, if the Government acknowledges that it cannot give said pledge, the Government therefore acknowledges the lie in its own campaigning for office.

As such, this "COST" that is spoken of is yet another myth from ideological apologists and has no merit or validity.

The real cost to us is having a Government elected on a series of calculated lies....

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

if I was abbott I would leave the mining tax in place... make changes to it so that it actually pays.. unlike the way that the incompetent Labor/Green coalition left it..  ::)

I never thought we'd agree on something. WOW

**crunches popcorn - enjoys the stoush.. pours fresh beer**

I love it when the Merde strikes the fan in politics.  Both sides of this circus have been handing it out to us out here for long enough now and I love to see them squirm.

Get rid of both parties....

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

I see a lot of posts in this thread, however, none of them actually have articulated exactly what the supposed "cost" is. Ironically, now there is at least one poster who apparently cannot articulate what the exact cost of the carbon tax is, yet we apparently need to get rid of it because of the cost.... Here is the problem. Mr Abbott campaigned hard on the savings that would be shared by ALL Australians with his repeal of the Carbon tax. Given the Carbon tax was not actually responsible for the majority of price gouging that went on, this was in effect a blatant lie. Mr Palmer has merely played Mr Abbott about his own (Abbott's) lies. In effect, the Government cannot give a guarantee that business will pass on savings to the public from repealing the Carbon Tax. As such, however, if the Government acknowledges that it cannot give said pledge, the Government therefore acknowledges the lie in its own campaigning for office. As such, this "COST" that is spoken of is yet another myth from ideological apologists and has no merit or validity. The real cost to us is having a Government elected on a series of calculated lies....

the biggest lie is that Australians will be better off because of the repeal of the tax. The only reason people MAY be better off is because the compensation stays. take that away and everyone is in the same position, showing that Tony is removing a working reform for no reason.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:37pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 12:28pm: aquascoot: Quote: Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed. He claimed thousands in expenses for a couple of hours 'charity' ride .....   what would a ride around Australia cost us in expenses? Actually, whilst Canberra remains part of Australia he is not in a position to say it is closed, given Australia is apparently "open for business..."

No business going on down there.
Business people should copyright the word "business" and make sure it applies to "the useful application of capital to maintain productivity in an economy".
Canberra is nothing but a handbrake on business.
The carbon tax debacle is but one example.

Years of tooing and fro'ing.
Great skyscrapers full of public servants.
Business uncertainty.
No way to plan for the future.
An anchor on investment
Manufacturing uncertainty.
A bonus for crooks to drive up prices
An administrative nightmare.
1000's of hours of circular arguments, philibustering, guillitoining.
And at the end of the day, has probably not reduced the temperature by one one thousandth of a degree.
If you want to see an argument for why we need to cut Canberra out of every loop we can, look no further than this issue

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

I see a lot of posts in this thread, however, none of them actually have articulated exactly what the supposed "cost" is. Ironically, now there is at least one poster who apparently cannot articulate what the exact cost of the carbon tax is, yet we apparently need to get rid of it because of the cost.... Here is the problem. Mr Abbott campaigned hard on the savings that would be shared by ALL Australians with his repeal of the Carbon tax. Given the Carbon tax was not actually responsible for the majority of price gouging that went on, this was in effect a blatant lie. Mr Palmer has merely played Mr Abbott about his own (Abbott's) lies. In effect, the Government cannot give a guarantee that business will pass on savings to the public from repealing the Carbon Tax. As such, however, if the Government acknowledges that it cannot give said pledge, the Government therefore acknowledges the lie in its own campaigning for office. As such, this "COST" that is spoken of is yet another myth from ideological apologists and has no merit or validity. The real cost to us is having a Government elected on a series of calculated lies....

As before - I've posted previously links on reasons for rising power costs - easy to find.

The blame is fairly and squarely on the ideology of 'privatisation' with all of the traps for the end user - Joe/Jo Bloggs - in costs of hydra-headed 'management' teams, 'ceos' and 'board members'.

A constant in all of this is the grab by these 'ceos' and such for the mega dollars for running the show, when most of them, as someone said about the Mafia in the US, couldn't run a corner store.

It is this multitude of new 'ceos', 'board members' and 'management teams' that are the cause of the cost rises.  In effect - the over-focus on 'business' is the direct creator of our current economic malaise of struggling workers, rising wages, rising costs, and inadequate revenue to government due to sidelining many potential income and other taxpayers through lack of finances.

Like ToJo - the only solution these 'ceos' etc have to diminishing real returns is to constantly raise prices (ToJo loses revenue - raises taxes on the poor - same same) - thus making the whole situation worse for all.

Plain Dumb if you ask me, and the sooner governments accept that 'privatisation' is a failed policy, the better off we'll all be.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:51pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 12:37pm: Cliff48 wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 12:28pm: aquascoot: Quote: Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed. He claimed thousands in expenses for a couple of hours 'charity' ride .....   what would a ride around Australia cost us in expenses? Actually, whilst Canberra remains part of Australia he is not in a position to say it is closed, given Australia is apparently "open for business..." No business going on down there. Business people should copyright the word "business" and make sure it applies to "the useful application of capital to maintain productivity in an economy". Canberra is nothing but a handbrake on business. The carbon tax debacle is but one example. Years of tooing and fro'ing. Great skyscrapers full of public servants. Business uncertainty. No way to plan for the future. An anchor on investment Manufacturing uncertainty. A bonus for crooks to drive up prices An administrative nightmare. 1000's of hours of circular arguments, philibustering, guillitoining. And at the end of the day, has probably not reduced the temperature by one one thousandth of a degree. If you want to see an argument for why we need to cut Canberra out of every loop we can, look no further than this issue

Yes, but it is still a part of Australia...

By the way, when business does actually start to resolve some issues and put something back to the wider public, well, then that will be self evident and, therefore, there will be no need for further propaganda....

However, in the meantime, we (Australia) actually do need some brakes applied, because some in business have actually demonstrated the exact opposite of all of the above. Other businesses seem to either excuse this, ignore it or justify it and, usually, point the finger at some public owned operation, as if that justifies their behaviour.

I am not opposed to business running their business, I am opposed to them doing whatever they want without any regulatory support for the broader community.

No argument has ever been presented that supports private sector providing public services that is consistent with the realities demonstrated in privatisation. In fact, privatised companies are demonstrably not more efficient, nor do they keep consumer costs down, nor are they any fairer or better to deal with than when the business was owned by the public sector.

Business owners appear to fail to grasp the idea that the country is not a business and, consequently, should not be run like one.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:57am:

cods wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:48am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax, Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes. Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak. The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess. there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election  it wont include the senate.. where  he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands... has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt]  never stays around for any tough questions.. anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods.. He's not got the right temperament for politics. A shrewd opponent would make mincemeat of him. Tony's simply a bit of a retard when it comes to this sort of machievellian stuff. John Howard, Peter Costello....they would have played clive, not let clive play them. Goes to "fitness to rule" If you let an oaf like clive and a motoring enthusiast (lol) and people like SHY and Milne get the better of you , it speaks volumes that you aren't fit to rule.

Howard was also having to deal with senate issues but NO ONE has had to deal with a wrecking ball like the fat fool. Not since One Nation in the QLD parliament has a govt had to deal with oafs and fools in positions of power.

Abbott is a shrewd operator. Not up to the level of Howard and Costello but certainly far, far above the last two PMs who were quite duds in political strategy.

The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt. 

This is a new situation and one demanding new answers.  Palmer actually IS a fool and far clever people than he on both sides of politics are aiming to have him removed.

Tony has a (rather dubious) mandate to remove the carbon tax.

He certainly didnt run on a ticket of removing all the climate authorities, or increasing taxes (carbon tax offsets), and all the other stuff he's bundling with the carbon tax removal policy.

Palmer is saying, you can remove carbon tax, if thats all you do.

Whats the problem ?

If Abbott must increase taxes, he should have mentioned that before last eleciton.

Quote:

The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.

Hardly unique at all.  Prior to September, 2013, that's is exactly what Abbott was doing.  He wanted to destroy the ALP's Government at any cost.  I give you a simple example.  Peter Slipper, who is irrelevant now, but was made the centre of attention of a carefully crafted ploy set up by senior LNP people.  James Ashby ~ who?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:06pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:57am: cods wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:48am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:38am: Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2014 at 9:30am: Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele. The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge. ;) ;) Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups. Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look. Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel. politics is all about winning. The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax, Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes. Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak. The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess. there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election  it wont include the senate.. where  he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands... has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt]  never stays around for any tough questions.. anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods.. He's not got the right temperament for politics. A shrewd opponent would make mincemeat of him. Tony's simply a bit of a retard when it comes to this sort of machievellian stuff. John Howard, Peter Costello....they would have played clive, not let clive play them. Goes to "fitness to rule" If you let an oaf like clive and a motoring enthusiast (lol) and people like SHY and Milne get the better of you , it speaks volumes that you aren't fit to rule. Howard was also having to deal with senate issues but NO ONE has had to deal with a wrecking ball like the fat fool. Not since One Nation in the QLD parliament has a govt had to deal with oafs and fools in positions of power. Abbott is a shrewd operator. Not up to the level of Howard and Costello but certainly far, far above the last two PMs who were quite duds in political strategy. The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.  This is a new situation and one demanding new answers.  Palmer actually IS a fool and far clever people than he on both sides of politics are aiming to have him removed.

Personally I hope Abbott gets wind of what's happening over at the AEC . Palmer United Party cant be salvaged from their unlawful application to be registered political party. The three shall's of the Australian Electoral ACT 1918 not happen. 1. Palmer United Party shall have an identified Secretary.  2. The identified Secretary shall present the application. 3. Should 1 and 2 not occur the AEC shall not register the application. No if no buts no maybes.
At the moment the AEC is tying itself in knots to fob of the facts and evidence of the AEC Extracts. Not that I can blame them given the costs they now face.

Aussie wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:40pm:

Quote: The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.  Hardly unique at all.  Prior to September, 2013, that's is exactly what Abbott was doing.  He wanted to destroy the ALP's Government at any cost.  I give you a simple example.  Peter Slipper, who is irrelevant now, but was made the centre of attention of a carefully crafted ploy set up by senior LNP people.  James Ashby ~ who?

hilarious.....so slipper basically stopped govt did he????

yeah right.. PUP have gone back on their word.. the word they promised prior to the election they would vote out the carbon tax.

now we see petty I WANTS  and I wont vote unless its specific to MY WANTS...sorry matey we know you relish this and want it but you will rue the day..

this is not what the senate is for and you know it..give a megalomaniac the power and what do you get.???.

well its what you want a country paralysed.by an idiot..so good luck with that....

so you carry i voted for PUP sticker on your cab bumper bar?????I bet your not game too.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:06pm:

NO ONE has had to deal with a wrecking ball like the fat fool.

as if Abbott was any better when he was in opposition  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Interesting times. As one might have been heard to say - "tu quoque, Brute! (L.), and thou too, Brutus"; and moreover, "the measure of a man is what he does with power" (Pittacus).
:D