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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> General Board >> R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642 Message started by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am

Title: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:11am

Baden-Clay could not get over the scratch marks. I have never seen a shaving cut like that, ever.

I believe that and Allison's blood on the rear seat of Allison's car were the telling evidence that put the wrecking ball through that smart arsed Gerard Baden-Clay's lies.

Yes R.I.P. Allison, may he never get parole.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:18am

Real Estate agents ::)

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by George_Orhell on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:19am

Yes, may she rest in peace now. Very sad for her children though.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:49am

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

no I didnt.. but whats wrong with what I said???...

you prefer nasty dont you? even on a thread like this...

what are you going to say next! her mum and dad are making a fortune out of their daughters murder.. >:(

come on I am expecting it.. they are from Qld after all... >:( >:( >:( >:(

and dont all Qlders get sick to death of hearing families whine about a murder in their family...

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
and then make money out of interviews???

nasty nasty nasty,

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:54am

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:11am:

he wasnt a bit convincing I thought.

unless you are a qlder. >:(..some do not believe the person found guilty is guilty

its more the parents of the victim that are guilty of a crime..

and of course no one can comment on a persons loveliness unless they knew them personally...

by order of a PUP groupie...

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by bogarde73 on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:57am

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a retrial.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Kytro on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:30am

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:11am:

I wouldn't have convicted for murder on that. There is no way at all to reasonably prove intent. I might have gone for manslaughter, maybe, but it's still a stretch from an evidential point of view. People believe things far too easily in my opinion.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by philperth2010 on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:35am

The unusual thing is that Baden Clay seams to have had a beard in most photos I have seen of him.....People with beards do not shave they trim....He also had scratches on his chest that where never explained.....I think the jury made the correct decision.....My condolences to all the family involved who will never be the same again!!!

:( :( :(

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:35am

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

This whole public outpouring of grief - over total strangers - is a relatively new phenomena

I first detected it in the murder of Jill Meagher - in Brunswick, Victoria

... and more recently on the murder of Chinese national Renee Lau, in King's Domain, Melbourne

As best I can see - so far - this public grief only admits women victims

I'd be curious to see what a psychiatrist would make of the whole thing ?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:36am

bogarde73 wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:57am:

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a retrial.

why is that.? I must admit havent followed this one as closely I just thought claiming he scratched himself shaving...was bizarre two scratches what sort of razor was he using.?..I think he could have drugged her..because of the children...he sounded like his whole world was caving in on him... and he couldnt cope..maybe he thought her insurance would get him out of trouble..

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:39am

Kytro wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:30am:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:11am:

and the body found 3 weeks later in a creek??

manslaughter....hummmm

not forgetting all the lies in between.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:43am

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:35am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

I dont see a thing wrong with it... its nice to see nice people for a change we "nice people" are sick of the violence sick of it being the answer to problems...

sick of people who want the control and want everything their way.and when it doesnt happen they kill.. JUST LIKE THAT...and then go on with their daily tasks like shaving as if its a normal day..

its just great to see people care have feelings...I think its very nice..

the outpouring for Ian Thorpe has also showed the caring side of aussies..

all power to them I say.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Kytro on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:21pm

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:39am:

Kytro wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:30am:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:11am:

and the body found 3 weeks later in a creek??

manslaughter....hummmm

not forgetting all the lies in between.

Lies don't prove intent to kill, they could have got into a physical fight, he hit her too hard, then decided to hide the body. That does not make it murder per se.

If it were a civil decision, which goes on the balance of probabilities, yes, but beyond a reasonable doubt, nope.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Sprintcyclist on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:36pm

It's very sad.

I believe the justice system got it right.

He has a deep lack of integrity and honesty, was in serious financial strife. Has one suspicious injury mark and another unexplained one, was up at a strange time on that night.

She had debris from their yard on her person and her blood was in their car.

Cheating on his wife does not make him a murderer.
Murderers would be ok with cheating though.

it'ld be a tough decision to make, if those facts are beyond reasonable doubt.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by John Smith on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:38pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

Real Estate agents ::)

fair go there Greg ... nothing to do with his occupation ...

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by John Smith on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:40pm

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:49am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

you are a bitter old fool aren't you? He asked you a simple question, quite possily out of concern ... but you just can't help yourself.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:07pm

I always thought the husband was suss from the very beginning. Him saying something like, she went out for a walk in the dark, on her own, without a mobile phone.

Whether he meant to kill her, I don't know, I suspect manslaughter more-so than murder.

If he had premeditated murder, there would not have been blood in her car, and perhaps he would have had a better alibi at the time of her disappearance etc.

So I believe an argument broke out, he did have a few mistresses during the course of his marriage to her, and she knew, but still stayed with him (perhaps for the sake of her children, as from what I hear from those that knew her, she was very dedicated to her children)....and yet, his latest mistress told him he needed to tell his wife about them, and that he wanted to leave her, so that his wife could move on, and that he would still have access to seeing his children etc.

So perhaps, a fight of some sort happened, and he found out his wife would not accept it, (as from what I hear others say of her, she was a very determined person) perhaps like was mentioned, he just went into a blind rage and hit her too hard?
Acted in the heat of the moment to get rid of her?

Not very premeditated, but still, he dumped her in a creek, and then went on to lie lie lie.

Would have been better to call the cops the instant he knew he had made her deceased after some fighting, so it would have been manslaughter, and not such a big story for all the tabloids to make special viewing about.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:10pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:38pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

Real Estate agents ::)

fair go there Greg ... nothing to do with his occupation ...

Yes, I was being facetious.

Queenslanders ::)

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by John Smith on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:11pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:38pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

Real Estate agents ::)

fair go there Greg ... nothing to do with his occupation ...

Yes, I was being facetious.

Queenslanders ::)

truth be known it was because of lawyers ...

he couldn't just leave her because the lawyers would take everything ... ;D ;D

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:13pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:38pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

Real Estate agents ::)

fair go there Greg ... nothing to do with his occupation ...

Yes, I was being facetious.

Queenslanders ::)

truth be known it was because of lawyers ...

he couldn't just leave her because the lawyers would take everything ... ;D ;D

But from what is reported, there was nothing to take, he was in financial debt.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:50pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:40pm:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:49am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

you are a bitter old fool aren't you? He asked you a simple question, quite possily out of concern ... but you just can't help yourself.

I was wondering whether anyone would comment on that, but, cods has to see shadows where there are none.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:53pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

There are far too many unanswered questions for me to feel comfortable about this conviction. I reckon there is plenty of room for reasonable doubt. Happy to go into detail, but I doubt that will help much.

I'll bet if a death penalty followed a guilty finding by the Jury, they would have acquitted.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:26pm

bogarde73 wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:57am:

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a retrial.

... and I believe there SHOULD be - even if just to confirm the findings of the FIRST one

The case had erupted into a too big emotive media circus to have any chance of finding an untainted jury that could deliver anything BUT a guilty verdict "beyond reasonable doubt"

The prosecution have admitted their case was based purely on "circumstantial evidence"
Generally - in our justice system - "circumstantial evidence" is ONLY used as a back up to MATERIAL EVIDENCE

And the blood on her car seat ?

Remember this was the SAME evidence that convicted Lindy Chamberlain
It was only found YEARS LATER that police forensics had seriously screwed up - and it wasn't blood at ALL - but automotive over-spray

At the end of the day the BIGGEST piece of MATERIAL EVIDENCE was this "love-rat's" affair

So I would say YES - a retrial IS WARRANTED - but by a JUDGE, not a JURY, to remove divide in the community

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:35pm

Kyrtro, I commented on 2 vital pieces of evidence. In a trial where it is circumstantial evidence that convicts, it is the sum total of all the evidence.

Like branch after branch laid down to complete a picture.

There was enough branches there to start a forest fire.

He is as guilty as hell. The Jury have found him guilty and guilty he is.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:37pm

buzzand didj, just to get something straight, are you claiming it wasn't Allison's blood on the seat?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:42pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:37pm:

buzzand didj, just to get something straight, are you claiming it wasn't Allison's blood on the seat?

I'm saying it wasn't Azaria Chaimberlain's blood - after forensics had "proved" that it WAS

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:42pm

Aussie I'm sure you could make a case of reasonable doubt for Adolph Hitler that really he was just a misguided house painter, fortunately, the Jury have seen the truth for what it is.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:44pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:37pm:

buzzand didj, just to get something straight, are you claiming it wasn't Allison's blood on the seat?

And where was the corresponding laceration or blood producing injury to the deceased? Answer ~ there was zero evidence of any. It is not uncommon for people to bleed in the ordinary course, even in cars.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:45pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

[quote author=bogarde73 link=1405464642/7#7 date=1405472240]

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a retrial.

... and I believe there SHOULD be - even if just to confirm the findings of the FIRST one

The case had erupted into a too big emotive media circus to have any chance of finding an untainted jury that could deliver anything BUT a guilty verdict "beyond reasonable doubt"

REALLY WE HEARD ALMOST NOTHING DOWN HERE IN CAN BRA...WEVE HAD MORE NEWS COVERAGE ON OSCARS TRIAL.

ALMOST NOTHING IN THE NEWSPAPERS

The prosecution have admitted their case was based purely on "circumstantial evidence"
Generally - in our justice system - "circumstantial evidence" is ONLY used as a back up to MATERIAL EVIDENCE

MMMMM SO THE SCRATCHES ON HIS FACE WERE CIRCUMSTANTIAL...OK... I STILL HAVENT SEEN A DOUBLE BLADED SHAVING SCRATCH BEFORE.

And the blood on her car seat ?

Remember this was the SAME evidence that convicted Lindy Chamberlain
It was only found YEARS LATER that police forensics had seriously screwed up - and it wasn't blood at ALL - but automotive over-spray

YOU DO KNOW THAT FORENSICS HAVE MOVED ON EVEN FURTHER SINCE LINDY WAS IN COURT...IN FACT THE BLOOD IN THE CAR WAS ALLISONS BLOOD..

At the end of the day the BIGGEST piece of MATERIAL EVIDENCE was this "love-rat's" affair

So I would say YES - a retrial IS WARRANTED - but by a JUDGE, not a JURY, to remove divide in the community

YOU CONVENIENTLY FORGET ABOUT THE HUGE DEBT HE WAS IN AND HOW HE TRIED TO BORROW THOUSANDS AND WAS KNOCKED BACK..

[b]HE ADMITS HIMSELF HE WAS DESPERATE...

Former prestige real estate agent Gerard Baden-Clay requested a $300,000 loan from Queensland state MP Bruce Flegg in the months before his wife disappeared, a court has heard.

Sue Health, a close friend of Dr Flegg, told the Supreme Court in Brisbane on Thursday she phoned Mr Baden-Clay in March 2012 at the request of the Moggill MP.

Ms Heath said Mr Baden-Clay sounded “distressed” as he asked for a sizeable loan.

Advertisement
“Gerard said he was having financial trouble and he wanted to know if Bruce could lend him some money,” she said.

“He was distressed, you just could just tell in his voice. He was normally very confident and he was genuinely quite distressed. I felt really quite sad for him.

Gerard Baden-Clay.
Gerard Baden-Clay.
“He said if he didn't get it [the money] … he would go broke or bankrupt.

“I just felt really sad, because they seemed so successful.”

Ms Heath said she would pass on Mr Baden-Clay’s request to Dr Flegg, although she warned him she did not think the politician “had that kind of money”.

“I remember thinking it was very serious and if we could help, we should,” Ms Heath said.

She said Mr Baden-Clay responded well, noting he had “impeccable manners”.

Earlier, the court heard from forensic medical officer Dr Leslie Griffiths, who examined Mr Baden-Clay at the Royal Brisbane and Women’s Hospital on April 22, 2012.

Dr Griffiths said he was asked to document the injuries on Mr Baden-Clay’s face, upper chest and right armpit.

He said the injuries on Mr Baden-Clay's face appeared to be "abrasions" rather than "cuts".

"What I have described to the court is an abrasion, not a cut," Dr Griffiths said, referring to a photograph of the injuries.

"They could be caused by a human scratch ... by fingernail scratches.

"They resemble scratch marks."

Mr Baden-Clay said he cut himself shaving on the morning he reported his wife missing, after police questioned the marks on his face.

Dr Griffiths said it was "highly improbable" that a "modern razor" would cause an abrasion of the type Mr Baden-Clay presented with.

Referencing his own experience shaving Dr Griffiths said: "I've never seen an injury like that in my own experience personally.”

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:47pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:42pm:

Aussie I'm sure you could make a case of reasonable doubt for Adolph Hitler that really he was just a misguided house painter, fortunately, the Jury have seen the truth for what it is.

Juries have no special truth divining powers. Their decisions are human and could be mistakenly made.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm

No, no, no, buzzanddidj, what you are trying to do is draw a line of association between the Chamberlain matter and the Baden-Clay matter.

There is no link whatsoever either by inference, association or fact.

Baden-Clay has been justly convicted - end of story.

You see no matter much you bang on, he has just been given a Life Sentence, so all of this is just admin.

Cods - your comments about Allison Baden-Clay were correct, she was a lovely person. Anyone who had been following the trial closely would have seen that very early in the piece.

I listened to the victim impact statements closely, it demonstrated how much love there was for her in her family.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:51pm

Quote:

Dr Griffiths said it was "highly improbable" that a "modern razor" would cause an abrasion of the type Mr Baden-Clay presented with.

He did say something similar, but note that he did not say that the cuts could not happen as described by Baden-Clay.

That is the vital point. He could not exclude what Baden-Clay claimed as possible.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:53pm

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

YOU DO KNOW THAT FORENSICS HAVE MOVED ON EVEN FURTHER SINCE LINDY WAS IN COURT...IN FACT THE BLOOD IN THE CAR WAS ALLISONS BLOOD..

It is believed to be her blood, according to current testing methods.

In 30 years time, forensic science will be even more advanced.

Don't be fooled into thinking that we have already achieved the very best in terms of accuracy.

Having said that, I thought he was guilty from day one.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:57pm

Aussie, you are correct, Juries make mistakes but in the absence of a fairer system, I would say they got it stunningly right in this matter.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Kytro on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 3:56pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

My impression is he killed her, but I'm less certain that it was on purpose, and there is still some doubt.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:01pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Was very sad to hear her dad saying that he failed her as a father to protect her, and will haunt him for the rest of his life. I wish he wouldn't blame himself for that, after all, who's to know? It appears there were no warning signs of the son-in-law being violent or threatening.
My guess is that when people do something during a heated argument, some say, they 'blacked out' and don't remember picking up a knife and stabbing their partner etc.
How can any father or mother, protect their adult child from anything like that?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:07pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:53pm:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

YOU DO KNOW THAT FORENSICS HAVE MOVED ON EVEN FURTHER SINCE LINDY WAS IN COURT...IN FACT THE BLOOD IN THE CAR WAS ALLISONS BLOOD..

And that is exactly where we are at now since the Chamberlain case, decades later with forensic science better than we have ever had it, so far...and yes, probably will be even better in the future, that's a given.

Allison's car was only 6 weeks old (bought from new), and if say, one of the kids had a bloody knee or nose bleed, am sure Allison would have cleaned it up, as mothers do, or anyone that owns a new car would.
But they matched that blood to be hers.

One thing that I don't get is, why do they buy a brand new car when they had financial problems?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by John Smith on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:10pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

One thing that I don't get is, why do they buy a brand new car when they had financial problems?

keeping up with the Jones'

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:14pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:01pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

They can't and that very fact puts the correct spotlight on the bizarre, self absorbed almost narcissist comment from her Father.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:15pm

Ever seen a woman's finger nail scrapes on a man's face. I have a number of times in my Police days. Funny thing is Aussie, they look remarkably like the scrapes on Baden-Clay's face, funny about that huh?

Thing is if it looks like fingernail scrapes, chances are......

Still trying to figure out a razor that would make marks like that, perhaps he shaved with a brickie's trowel.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:24pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Who knows, but where is the forensic evidence of HIS skin tissue under her fingernails? Answer ~ there was NONE, and you would expect there to be. That there was none tells you what, Mr Baron?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:27pm

In his summing up, after the return of the Jury, The Judge pointed out the 'damning evidence' of the fingernail scrapes.

I think that's plenty for me.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:30pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:27pm:

In his summing up, after the return of the Jury, The Judge pointed out the 'damning evidence' of the fingernail scrapes.

I think that's plenty for me.

I very much doubt he used the word 'damning,' but if he did, he was overstating the matter, and that may well be a ground of appeal. I'm sure he referred to the marks on his face, but he would not likely have expressed a personal opinion on weight to be given to it.

Edit: Oh, you are referring to what he said after the verdict. That is entirely different because at that time, he must converse in terms of the bloke having done the deed.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:37pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:24pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Who knows, but where is the forensic evidence of HIS skin tissue under her fingernails? Answer ~ there was NONE, and you would expect there to be. That there was none tells you what, Mr Baron?

I wondered about that also, that she would have had some tissue under her fingernails, but...as she was dumped in the water, wouldn't that have cleared away that sort of loose evidence? They didn't find her body until about 10 days later.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:39pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:24pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Who knows, but where is the forensic evidence of HIS skin tissue under her fingernails? Answer ~ there was NONE, and you would expect there to be. That there was none tells you what, Mr Baron?

Was she dumped in the water? She was found above the high water mark on the banks of some creek.

And further, while I was not in Court listening to every word, I read or heard nothing which explains the absence of that evidence. NB ~ I said evidence which explains why there was no skin tissue of his found under the nails.

There was evidence that some tissue was found under a nail (I think a left hand nail,) but it was not identified as his tissue.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:47pm

In summary ~ so far:

1. Her blood found in the car. No evidence of a corresponding laceration or other body disfigurement which could link that to the state of her body at the time of her demise. Further, no evidence of any struggle anywhere which might have suggested she was injured causing a blood flow.

2. Marks on his face. No-one says that they are without doubt in fact fingernail scrathches, and no skin tissue of his found under her nails, bit someones (no his) was found under her nail.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:47pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:14pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:01pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

They can't and that very fact puts the correct spotlight on the bizarre, self absorbed almost narcissist comment from her Father.

Sounds more like he would be regretful he wasn't more cluey about what was going on to tell his daughter to leave the bloke.....but as most of us know, many don't want to interfere with our adult kids once they get into relationships and have children....thinking they would sort out their problems somehow. I think any dad would have felt the same way as Allison's dad, we all tend to put some blame on ourselves when things can go wrong....narcissist?...more like the old fashioned head of the household bread winner type of thinking.
He reared his daugther up only to have her taken in the prime of her life, before she could even finish rearing her own children.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:50pm

You know what the system tells me about all this Aussie?

I seem to recall one of your earlier posts, where you went to great lengths to cover the role of the Jury in glory.

Well this Jury did its job and that bastard who murdered his wife, has at least 15 years to think it over.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Annie Anthrax on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:54pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:14pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:01pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

They can't and that very fact puts the correct spotlight on the bizarre, self absorbed almost narcissist comment from her Father.

What an awful thing to say, Aussie. It isn't bizarre or self-absorbed for a father (particularly of that generation) to feel guilt at giving permission for a man to marry his daughter who would then not only betray her, but kill her. And that's what he said - that Baden-Clay approached him for permission and he gave it. The guilt may be unwarranted, but it's understandable.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:55pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

I very much doubt that. I've seen them come out with the most inexplicable outcomes. I have also seen them influenced outrageously by the Trial Judge, but there is no evidence of that in the cold Transcript. Judges are adept (if they have chosen to in any particular case) at getting their personal view across by tone of voice, phrasing, and all of body language.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:59pm

Quote:

The guilt may be unwarranted, but it's understandable.

It is unwarranted and it is also inexplicable except in context of bizarre self absorption. He would have been better served to say nothing or, do what her brother did, and passionately abuse the living shite out of Clay.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:04pm

Yes my mistake Aussie, she was found under a bridge by the creek bank, here I was thinking she would have been in the water at some stage.

I found this timeline of the event.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-15/baden-clay-murder-trial-timeline/5585176

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:09pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:59pm:

Quote:

The guilt may be unwarranted, but it's understandable.

Without knowing much of the father's character, I would say, that the quiet type of person isn't one to do as his (more of the modern day) son did, to be more openly abusive, whereas his generation are more likely to be quietly introverted and saying something more critical of themselves instead. Grief has different ways of bringing emotions and attitudes out.
Self blame.....or blame...is one of the stages.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Phemanderac on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:15pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 11:35am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Justice for a lovely lady...you can rest in peace now.may your children find peace in your loving memory.

Did you know her personally, cods?

Not sure that a psychiatrist would make much of it, however, I did hear a sociologist speaking of a similar idea a few years back.

She was talking about the road side memorials for people killed in traffic related accidents.

From the sociological stand point she said that this action seems to be more of a sign that we as a society have stopped learning how to grieve appropriately (that is a heavily condensed essence of what she said sentence). She didn't say it was good or bad, but just a sign that more appropriate forms of demonstrating grief were not being taught, adhered to or simply were being left behind. She also highlighted (at the time) a spate of "attacks" on a couple of cemeteries as symptomatic of this as well.

I certainly don't know what the answer is though.

Of course, the thing I always try to bare in mind with the celebrity deaths (yeah, they might not have been a celebrity until after their death, but once the media have their claws in.... You know the rest) is that there may have been a few hundred others dying similarly that same day whom we just never hear about, ergo they get none of our public grief...

This murder is sad, but, so too are a myriad of other murders, suicides, death by accident and/or natural causes.

Sadness is a part of life and without it, would we truly experience the opposite - happiness?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:17pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:59pm:

Quote:

The guilt may be unwarranted, but it's understandable.

I am his generation. The last thing you would have heard from me (or mates of mine my age) would have been silly blubbery rubbish about a mistake in allowing my daughter (as if I would have been able to stop her) to marry some bloke who, years later, was convicted of murdering her. I'd just murder him, and you'd be reading about my Trial, and conviction. You would not be hearing reports of me saying anything.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:56pm

I can't vouch for this being genuine, but it is suggested this is a photo of the aforesaid blood.

Does not look like much to me. As I've said, I'll bet there is evidence of the blood of many in Cabs.....means SFA.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:11pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:17pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:59pm:

Quote:

The guilt may be unwarranted, but it's understandable.

I can say you do sound like my hubby, that he wouldn't say much either, he would 'just do' something, and I have often heard him say that he would gladly go to jail then.

But her dad didn't do anything like that, he wanted justice and left it up to the courts and evidence, and police, and witnesses and jury, and maybe, if the s-i-l had gotten off, with no closure of how their daughter died, just maybe then, the father may have done something eh?

Here's a thought about the case.....how come Allison's husband didn't come up with this story...that they had a fight, that he wanted to leave her for his lover/mistress, she reacted with clawing at his face and then took off in the night upset and didn't return.

Now that would have been better than all the lies he came up with.....

Them marks on his face, don't look like shaving cuts to me either, and the hubby says he never had cuts with his shavers to look like that...and he does have them often, putting tissues on the cuts, looking like Norman Gunstan! ;D

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:20pm

I've dealt with the marks on his face. My point will not get any stronger by repeating it.

Quote:

Here's a thought about the case.....how come Allison's husband didn't come up with this story...that they had a fight, that he wanted to leave her for his lover/mistress, she reacted with clawing at his face and then took off in the night upset and didn't return.

Good point. Why............because it did not happen, according to him. He had zero to do with her death, he said.

If I was innocent of an act, I'd hardly make up some story that, even though in fact I didn't do it, I did and here is my exculpation. I'd just say, nah, not me, like he did.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:33pm

HONESTLY! This trial went on for 8 weeks. He murdered his wife in April 2012. Now that he has been found GUILTY everyone is coming out of the woodwork with an OPINION.

Gerard Baden Clay has been convicted as a murderer of his wife, Allison. He has LIFE with 15 years non parole. He can NOT appeal his sentence as that is the minimum, according to Queensland Law.

However, he can still appeal the fact that the Jury found him GUILTY. I would think that since the QUEENSLAND TAXPAYERS will pay for it (he is broke and using Legal Aid)

The man is a JERK.

Shaving cuts........... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:43pm

Seems to me Aussie that you're a cynical jaded ex Lawyer who cares nothing for the evil Gerard Baden-Clay visited on his family. It wasn't only his wife who was a victim.

You have set yourself up as THE EXPERT but you're not Aussie. You are really starting to creep me out with your cold blooded observations and I am as cynical as they come.

Seems to me you're making an under handed pass at the Trial Judge without having the guts to come out and say it.

If you are going to say it then bloody well say it, sick of your wordy lawyer manoevures alluding to things but not coming straight out with it.

Your observations about Allison Baden-Clay are about as lifeless as a shark's eyes just as they roll over.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by aquascoot on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:51pm

I actually have a house in the city in the suburb next to Brookfield.
My missus got several messages from Mr. Bayden Clay a few years ago. she tells me he was contacting every woman he could find in Brookfield, Kenmore, Pullenvale and anstead. he seemed quite insatiable.

3 questions.

if she hadn't have managed toscratch him, would he have gotten off?

surely his dna should have been found under her fingernails or does dna go off in 10 days?

is the mistress who is going on 60 minutes being paid for her interview?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:00pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:51pm:

IF your wife actually KNOWS something ... anything ... she really should front up and tell all. Otherwise, IF they ever find out ........ BIG PROBLEMS. ;)

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:11pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:43pm:

Seems to me Aussie that you're a cynical jaded ex Lawyer who cares nothing for the evil Gerard Baden-Clay visited on his family. It wasn't only his wife who was a victim.

I may well be just that. However, your personal view of my persona hardly addresses the reality of the facts I have presented. Emotion has no place in that environment.

Quote:

You have set yourself up as THE EXPERT but you're not Aussie. You are really starting to creep me out with your cold blooded observations and I am as cynical as they come.

That's taking it over the top. I'm no expert (and I have ceratinly not 'set my self up' as one,) but I have had the necessary years of experience to make relevant observations. Whether I creep you or anyone else out is completely irrelevant. A Court Room (like an operating theatre) is the very place where cold blooded observations have to be made.

Quote:

Seems to me you're making an under handed pass at the Trial Judge without having the guts to come out and say it.

Dunno where you get that from. I have been addressing the state of the evidence so that I can explain why I say there is room for reasonable doubt.

Quote:

If you are going to say it then bloody well say it, sick of your wordy lawyer manoevures alluding to things but not coming straight out with it.

I think I've made it quite clear that I reckon there is ample room for reasonable doubt, and I have addressed each point (concerning the evidence) you have raised. It is telling that you have not been able to discredit those points I have made.

Quote:

Your observations about Allison Baden-Clay are about as lifeless as a shark's eyes just as they roll over.

I have not made even one observation about Allison Baden-Clay. I have addressed the evidence. All you have done is make the usual cry to emotion which has no place in this discussion about the Trail, the evidence and the outcome.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:12pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

No, no, no, buzzanddidj, what you are trying to do is draw a line of association between the Chamberlain matter and the Baden-Clay matter.

There is no link whatsoever either by inference, association or fact.

Pardon my PRESUMPTION

- but I would have thought the test results of small flecks of a substance, in a CAR,declared by forensics to be the blood of a SPECIFIC PERSON - was a DEFINATE "link" in circumstance ?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Alinta on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:13pm

just saying.........wish it had been a Judge only trial so we could read how the evidence was weighed up to reach a decision.....

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:38pm

Alinta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:13pm:

just saying.........wish it had been a Judge only trial so we could read how the evidence was weighed up to reach a decision.....

Justice John Byrne summed up, very appropriately and IF you have only just arrived here to bitch about stuff of which you have no clue, I'd suggest Google Judge Byrne Summation.

Aussie WAS just a solicitor. Wills, DUI and that sort of thing. He is not a Barrister and tends to only know some Queensland Law ..... anyone with half a brain knows more about various STATE LAWs than aussie does .....

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Alinta on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:11pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

Alinta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:13pm:

just saying.........wish it had been a Judge only trial so we could read how the evidence was weighed up to reach a decision.....

bitching???? no clue???? no idea why you'd think that.......

Of course I've read Judge Byrne's sentencing summation...but that was not the point of my post.

I was referring to a Judge only trial where he/she determines guilt or otherwise and must provide the "Reasons for Judgement" statement. It is very detailed and enables understanding of how the judge reached verdict..........unlike this case where the jury reached its verdict but does not supply reasons.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:16pm

Alinta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:11pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

Alinta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:13pm:

just saying.........wish it had been a Judge only trial so we could read how the evidence was weighed up to reach a decision.....

I think the reference was to his address prior to the Jury retiring. I'm nor sure where you get a reliable copy of that these days. Maybe you do, Alinta?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by aquascoot on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:18pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:00pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:51pm:

IF your wife actually KNOWS something ... anything ... she really should front up and tell all. Otherwise, IF they ever find out ........ BIG PROBLEMS. ;)

He was on every internet dating site ever invented.
When the cops came to interview him he gave them his business card and talked real estate to them.
A total narcisist

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:27pm

Quote:

surely his dna should have been found under her fingernails or does dna go off in 10 days?

Yeas, it should have been, if those were her scratch marks on his cheek. There was skin tissue under a nail of hers.......but it was not his.

That they could establish it was not his proves that DNA does not go off in ten days. I believe it never goes off.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Alinta on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:36pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:16pm:

Alinta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:11pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

Alinta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:13pm:

just saying.........wish it had been a Judge only trial so we could read how the evidence was weighed up to reach a decision.....

I think the reference was to his address prior to the Jury retiring. I'm nor sure where you get a reliable copy of that these days. Maybe you do, Alinta?

I read that one a few days ago Aussie...........think I googled something like "Judge Byrne directions to jury"............the site quoted by Neferti contains the same info....

Still not the point on which I made my original comment..........

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:48pm

Quote:

Still not the point on which I made my original comment..........

Yeas.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:25am

aquascoot wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 7:00pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 6:51pm:

IF your wife actually KNOWS something ... anything ... she really should front up and tell all. Otherwise, IF they ever find out ........ BIG PROBLEMS. ;)

He was on every internet dating site ever invented.
When the cops came to interview him he gave them his business card and talked real estate to them.
A total narcisist

for all we know..his wife may have found out more than we have been told.. [two mistresses]

his comments he was only f. her because of the business sounds more than typical of what this person was REALLY like....

he did try to claim he was a boy scout after all.. ::) ::)

the man was living in the shadows sex with anyone massive debt...about to lose his business.....which kept him in high prestige in the town...a lot going on.plus the women who was demanding he divorce his wife..knocked back from getting a large loan..seems like a lot of cowards it was all his wifes fault. >:(

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:34am

I've been trying to find where I read that skin tissue (not his) was found under one of her nails, and I haven't turned it up again yet. However, on that search, I also now read suggestions that her nails (except four) were missing.

Confusing.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:50pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

I read it all.
And the body was in thick mud, with a lot of insect larvae and beetles on her, with a decomposition of a lot of soft tissue loss.
Palm and fingerprints of the left hand are intact, and most of the skin of the right hand is absent. All fingernails of the right hand are detached and on the left hand nails, fingers 1 and 5 are detached, while 2-4 are loosely attached.

So getting back to my main thought re: any dna or skin tissue relating to her husbands face, with the mud and insects and decomposition, all that is lost, isn't it?

Drowning is not ruled out, as the appearance of lungs is not typical of drowning, the report says, however, post-mortem changes significantly limit interpretation.
Then further down, drowning has to be considered a possible cause of death over a natural cause of death.
And then, mentions strangulation/smothering.

She could have still been alive when her body was pushed over the embankment, and either the tide washed her further along under the bridge, or she clawed her way there, as the report mentions it could have been the rising water that put her in that akward spot, or she crawled her way there, or some other person put her there.
There were no fractures to show she jumped off the bridge.

So much for finding his skin tissues under her nails from scratching his face.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:04pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:50pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

All the nails were sent for DNA testing. I am hoping that the Member who produced the unredacted (not all of it was allowed in to evidence) Post Mortem Report will also produce that DNA Report which must form the basis for what I read somewhere about skin tissue found under a nail, not being his.

This is the relevant part of the PM Report:

All the ..... nails from both hands including those attached to the fingers were submitted for DNA testing as required.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:17pm

Aussie quote:-

All the nails were sent for DNA testing. I am hoping that the Member who produced the unredacted (not all of it was allowed in to evidence) Post Mortem Report will also produce that DNA Report which must form the basis for what I read somewhere about skin tissue found under a nail, not being his.

Link please

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:19pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

It is part of the Post Mortem Report linked by Neferti above.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Alinta on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:09pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:50pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

This is the best I can find re the DNA fingernail analysis...........

"The complete DNA profile obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," forensic scientist Amanda Reeves said.
Ms Reeves said that when she examined swabs from the dead woman's fingernails she found Allison's DNA and very low levels of possible DNA from a second contributor.
"However these were below the recordable threshold of the laboratory," she said.
"I didn't believe that they were suitable for comparison."

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:18pm

Interesting that Gerard Baden-Murderer's legal team have lodged an appeal today. Nothing to say that it will be granted, they will need to find some big ticket items to convince the Justice system that an appeal is warranted. I'm betting they will get an 'F' for fail in their application.

Also more evidence has come out of Baden-Clay's bizzare domestic behaviour.

A criminal law expert believes Gerard Baden-Clay (pic) is sure to appeal his conviction for murder.
AAP A criminal law expert believes Gerard Baden-Clay (pic) is sure to appeal his conviction for murder.

Convicted killer Gerard Baden-Clay has formally lodged an appeal against his murder conviction.

On Tuesday the 43-year-old was found guilty of murdering his wife Allison in 2012.

Baden-Clay, a former real estate agent, pleaded not guilty to the charges but was found guilty and given an automatic life sentence with a non-parole period of 15 years.

Baden-Clay's lawyers confirmed to 7News on Thursday afternoon they had lodged the appeal.

According to documents filed with the Queensland Court of Appeal Baden-Clay's legal team will be appealing the conviction on four grounds.

It's argued that the guilty verdict of murder was “unreasonable”, and that there was a miscarriage of justice over the relevance of Allison's blood being in a car.

Documents also stated that jurors needed to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that Baden-Clay placed his Allison's body at Kholo Creek “in order to use such a finding as post-offence conduct going to guilt”, News Limited reports.

The final argument relates to the marks on Baden-Clay's face.

The evidence Gerard Baden-Clay didn't want heard

Gerard Baden-Clay attempted to stop medical experts from testifying the marks on his face were consistent with fingernail scratches.

In a pre-trial hearing, the defence argued the jury could make their own minds up about the marks on the face of the convicted murderer, however the bid was rejected.

A pathologist was barred from saying a possible chest haemorrhage on victim and wife Allison Baden-Clay's body could have been from an assault.

Allison's family yesterday revealed her husband was controlling and abusive for years before he murdered her.

Those close to the murdered mother-of-three have come forward to detail years of emotional abuse she suffered at the hands of her husband, to whom she was married for 14 years.

Information previously suppressed because of court proceedings has been released, revealing Allison showed her mother bruising 12 months before she was killed.

"He used to have baby monitors on the house in reverse so he could hear everything that was happening within the house," Allison's cousin Jodie Dann told Sunday Night.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:34pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.

Aussie,

Much evidence was kept from the Jury under GBC's instructions. The JURY didn't hear everything ... including part of the Forensic Pathologist (Dr Nathan Milne) report that Allison may have died from a subdural haemorrhage plus the DNA report about the matter under the fingernails.

The MSN reported that it was "from another person" (not Allison) so one can ASSUME it was GBC's DNA but it was NOT stated as such.

Anything else you would like me to help you with, Aussie? Cup of tea? Beer" Back scratch?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:52pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:34pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.

If that DNA under her nail was his.....it would have been red hot admissible evidence, and the Jury would have taken less than an hour to convict, and I would have no doubt at all of his guilt.

So, who is the mystery person whose skin tissue got under her nail?

(I have reservations about this matter, because if it was as simple as I have been stating it, the Defence would have been all over it.)

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:58pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

Although I can see merit in the blood and mud issues, this would have been traversed by Defence at the Trial. I doubt an Appeal will succeed as the 'Guilty' verdict was open on the evidence. I have seen Appeal Court Judges make comments like "While I may have come to a different conclusion, I am not persuaded that the Jury, having been properly instructed and in due execution of their duty could not have decided as they did."

That also does not mean I have had what I reckon are my reasonable doubts dispelled.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:06pm

REGARDLESS of what you think AFTER THE EVENT, Aussie. GBC is incarcerated for the next 15 years, at least. That is where he belongs.

However, Allison's 3 little girls and her parents and siblings have to live with this. Have some compassion for the victims.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:18pm

GBC has appealed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-17/gerard-baden-clay-launches-appeal-against-murder-conviction/5604432

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:21pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:06pm:

REGARDLESS of what you think AFTER THE EVENT, Aussie. GBC is incarcerated for the next 15 years, at least. That is where he belongs.

If he did the deed, you are correct.

Quote:

However, Allison's 3 little girls and her parents and siblings have to live with this. Have some compassion for the victims.

Yes they do. But, he may at this stage also be a victim, so let's see some compassion in that direction. I'm not going to be partisan about it so I'll hand none out anywhere except to the kids who have lost a Mother and stand to lose a Father.

Ya see.....this is where the schmedia need a kick in the gonads again. They go to town after the conviction, and encourage the 'victors' to triumph the outcome because at Stage One, it went their way, ignoring the obvious existence of Stage Two and even Stage Three. I'm not saying the Lindy Chamberlain case is directly on point, but it is when it boils down to the stupid public cheer leading and demonising, so publicly embraced post conviction. At all times, she was innocent............a victim.

'Dignified silence,' as adopted by the currently defeated and vanquished, and by his Family would have been far better.

Just what did her Family think they were achieving with their grotesque celebrations? Vindication? Nah. What?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Sir Bobby on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:44pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:11am:

Parole?

Hang em and hang em high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJqIbHT1-lM

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:47pm

......and heretofore, you were doing so well with restraint, Sir Bobby.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Sir Bobby on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:54pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

......and heretofore, you were doing so well with restraint, Sir Bobby.

Sorry - I couldn't help it -

I just can't stand murderers.

The justice system is too weak to hang anyone
& where would you find a hangman?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:22pm

I think I'm being restrained too, that is of course Aussie, if you don't mind me referring to him as Gerard Baden-Murderer. :)

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm

It's not as though she's the only women that has ever died. And it's the children that are the big losers, as they've lost both their parents.

And I'm wondering, when the Jodi Arias trial resumes, is it going to get it's own thread? Or is it that only only when a man commits a crime against a women (or children) that this happens. All of the 'X' dominated 'fear-males' here getting all emotional?

Keep this in mind, Allison Baden-Clay's life was taken by an individual, it wasn't the action of a husband, not the action of a man or even a psychopath, as these three types of people are too common in the community in relation to the rarity of the crime to be able to be held accountable.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:30pm

Well gee GA...if you use all those exemptions of yours, it must have been the Ghost of Christmas Past who committed the crime.

You have a very unusual perception of the world, very unusual.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:39pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:21pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:06pm:

REGARDLESS of what you think AFTER THE EVENT, Aussie. GBC is incarcerated for the next 15 years, at least. That is where he belongs.

If he did the deed, you are correct.

Quote:

However, Allison's 3 little girls and her parents and siblings have to live with this. Have some compassion for the victims.

THE MEDIA ITS THEIR JOB..

IT ISNT YOURS OR MINE.,..

GET IT?..

when are you going to have a go at the Dickie family???...I bet you have found one of them making money out of this...

the person charged with the murder is given so much protection so much isnt allowed to be mentioned in court so the jury and the people do not know half of the story its all about PROTECTING HIM...

and when the media tell it as it really is....you claim they should wait another 3.4.5.years

before the whole story can be told.. just to protect the murderer...who has now been found guilty.. and in many cases where there is a second trial he is found guilty again....

all at our expense... fair enough I dont believe in arguing about his rights..

but so help me.. when someone cracks on like you do about two or three processes to go through and the charged should be given every protection it makes me sick.

no one is public cheer leading.. like you did when you cruelly accused the Morcombs of making a living out of their sons murder.,..

that was as disgusting a statement as I have ever read.. and it wasnt in the media.. it was on a public forum...

you really have a hide to rubbish others and claim there is a cheer leading from the stupid public.. I think its you thats stupid and disgusting...

your statements beat any thing I have read in any media... thats for sure. >:( >:( >:(

if you want to make out baden clay is a martyr

start your own thread dont denigrate this one which is about a lost soul...

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:41pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:52pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:34pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.

You tell me. I thought the Defence was there to get the accused off, no matter what. Counsel seems to have been taken in by GBC's arrogance and the fact that his GGG as Lord Baden Powell. Besides, the Government (via us taxpayers) is paying for this so why not Appeal and earn some extra thousands, huh?

I believe that Justice John Byrne explained everything to the Jury as he should have, without prejudice. GBC is just being a sook and showing everyone what a narcissist and pathological liar that he is. I hope he gets an extra 20 years, non parole, after this stunt.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Sir Bobby on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:46pm

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

Shouldn't every murderer be held accountable?

Some people on this forum must be drunk.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:55pm

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

If him being a husband had anything in itself to do with the crime, we'd expect many thousands of wives to be murdered daily, dummy.

And exactly, you don't know who Jodi Arias is because she is a women. You know who Oscar Pistorius & Baden-Clay is because they're a males and that gets the real TV coverage, guaranteed, as they're bearers of the 'Y' chromosome.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Neferti on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:04pm

OFF TOPIC!

Jodi Arias murdered her boyfriend, Travis Alexander in Arizona, USA, in 2008. She says it was self defence. Not only did she stab him numerous times and slit his throat, she also shot him in the head. He must have been difficult to run away from! She is GUILTY as charged but pretty to look at. ::)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Travis_Alexander

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Alinta on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:05pm

"And I'm wondering, when the Jodi Arias trial resumes, is it going to get it's own thread? "

You could start one????????

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:21pm

GA perhaps its time you had a quiet little talk with someone who can help you. I'm sure you know what you are talking about it's just that no one else here apparently has the slightest handle on what you are saying. Get well soon.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:26pm

Alinta wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:05pm:

"And I'm wondering, when the Jodi Arias trial resumes, is it going to get it's own thread? "

You could start one????????

Jodie Arias could be a topic because she is facing a death penalty wrongly, I believe. Whereas there is no real politics to the Pistorius & Baden-Clay trials. So don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against women or females, and if anything I believe that JA should be set free in a few years, as her's was a crime of passion, something in effect spontaneous as far as the crime itself occurred.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:32pm

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:26pm:

Alinta wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:05pm:

"And I'm wondering, when the Jodi Arias trial resumes, is it going to get it's own thread? "

You could start one????????

Well.....go start the Thread. Leave this one for the Topic!

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:35pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:21pm:

I'm more than happy to talk with a fellow patriot, but there sure in hell isn't any of them here other than myself it looks like. And if you can't understand anything I'm saying it's because you are still looking at the world through the eyes of a cop. Which would be fine if all of society was made up of police (and bad guys), but doesn't work when it's not. Someone has to be on side with the 'bad' of society too.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:39pm

So......what you're saying GA is that you're a Bad Boy right?

What in the name of the wide world of sports you are doing on this post and what you are saying is a wonder to me..a veritable wonder.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:42pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:32pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:26pm:

Alinta wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:05pm:

"And I'm wondering, when the Jodi Arias trial resumes, is it going to get it's own thread? "

You could start one????????

Well.....go start the Thread. Leave this one for the Topic!

I don't have what it takes to start a thread about something like this, all I have are my simple understandings of what happened, for what they are worth. And it should be someone like yourself that should take it on, as a life does depend on the outcome of this trial.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:44pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:39pm:

So......what you're saying GA is that you're a Bad Boy right?

What in the name of the wide world of sports you are doing on this post and what you are saying is a wonder to me..a veritable wonder.

There are only cops and bad boys in this world? The 'us and them' thing we'd expect from a cop.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:46pm

Are you talking about Gerard Baden-Clay's life, his life depends on this trial?

Well my friend his future has already been mapped out for him, it involves him doing a minimum of 15 years in Prison for the murder of his wife Allison, does that clear the fog a little for you?

Oh just caught you 'us' and 'them' thing, that's not bad GA...US and Them. Good starting point. The US can be the decent people in society, who love their families, go to work, pay their taxes, love their Country and the Them can be bad seeds like Gerard Baden-Clay who lie cheat and in the end murder their wives.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:54pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:46pm:

Jodi Arias, who has been found guilty of murder, is facing a possible death sentence when she goes into the penalty phase of her trial. I'd mentioned her here because I'm arguing that no-one (here) is interested in her trial because she is a woman convicted of murdering a man, something that doesn't stir up the emotions as it does if it happens the other way round.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by brumbie on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:56pm

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:46pm:

Jodi Arias, who has been found guilty of murder, is facing a possible death sentence when she goes into the penalty phase of her trial. I'd mentioned her here because I'm arguing that no-one is interested in her trial because she is a woman convicted of murdering a man, something that doesn't stir up the emotions as it does when it's the other way round.

I hear you!

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:30pm

Aussie is on the money GA, if you are concerned about Arias person then start up a separate post.

I wouldn't have the first clue who she is.

Go on...dip your toes in the pond, start a separate post and tell us all about her...just not here.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lord Herbert on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:44pm

bogarde73 wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 10:57am:

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a retrial.

Our soft-cock socialist justice system has special built-in Escape Clauses designed to help the guilty and the convicted have second, third and fourth chances at avoiding justice.

It's the same system that sees a lot of boat-people released into the community as a result of pure persistence in repeatedly taking up court time, with its increasing costs to the taxpayer.

Baden should fire his lawyers and get one of those sob-sister pro bono socialist lawyers who spend so much time hanging around detention centres.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Sir Bobby on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:46pm

Lord Herbert

Quote:

Our soft-cock socialist justice system

Only the rope can save our society.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lord Herbert on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:49pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

......and heretofore, you were doing so well with restraint, Sir Bobby.

Sorry - I couldn't help it -

I just can't stand murderers.

The justice system is too weak to hang anyone
& where would you find a hangman?

Are you kidding?

150 Muslim terrorists have just returned back from Syria and parts of Iraq. They'll not only do a hanging for you, they also specialise in throat-cutting, hand-chopping, AK-49 executions, etc etc.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:52pm

GA I have started your Jodi Arias post for you, I hope that all conversation relating to that American case can now take part on the post relating to it.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:52pm

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

What does this case from the USA have to do with the Oz case we are discussing in this thread?
I would say there are that many cases in the USA, wouldn't have a clue about this Jodi Arias, but by reading on wiki link that was provided by Neferti, sounds like this Jodi was a schitzo, stalking the poor bloke, hacking into his facebook, slashing his tyers, stealing a gun from her grandparents home, taking photos of their sex before she killed him and in his own place! (from photos recovered whilst she tried to destroy the digi cam in the washing machine).
This case speaks for itself.

We don't have the death penalty in Oz, so don't know why this case has to come up in comparison with the Baden-Clay situation.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lord Herbert on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:00pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:04pm:

She is GUILTY as charged but pretty to look at. ::)

Wow. I didn't know you're gay. 'Pretty' is definitely not what I'd call her, but whatever floats your boat, sweet-cheeks. ;D

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:41am

Sophia wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

Quote:

The Jodi Arias trial was put forward as an example only of an event we here in Aussieland aren't all that interested in. And why we don't want to know about her is because we don't get pleasure seeing a woman being punished. This over emotional side of ours is deciding the direction of society, and therefore deserves to be a political topic, I believe.

So, what it has to do with the Baden Clay thread is to do with the politics involved. I mean you know who Oscar Pistorius is, but don't know who Jodi Arias is. The reason being that she is a woman. That to me relates to the politics of the situation. The 'lefts' perspective's increasing domination of media issues.

[quote]"sounds like this Jodi was a schitzo, stalking the poor bloke, hacking into his facebook, slashing his tyers, stealing a gun from her grandparents home, taking photos of their sex before she killed him and in his own place! (from photos recovered whilst she tried to destroy the digi cam in the washing machine).
This case speaks for itself."

This is an example of why we should never let the public have any say in deciding these things, and is also why long legal trials are sometimes needed if justice is to be carried out. I mean, despite JA claiming self defense and using a knife and a gun that she'd brought with her, it can easily be argued that the crime itself was 'not' premeditated. But if her defense fails to do a good job of defending her (now that she has already been found guilty), she may get the death penalty.

Quote:

We don't have the death penalty in Oz, so don't know why this case has to come up in comparison with the Baden-Clay situation.

The death penalty in the US has been issue here before, I believe? And SA doesn't have the death penalty either.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:03am

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

I dont care to be called a dummy thank you...

and if you care to look at some stats you will find that most people who are murdered are by someone they are related too...

its got not a thing to do with male female... whether it makes the media.. Pistorious is famous like OJ they just happen to me MALE..

if a famous female killed her husband/partner she too would be headlines..In countries like America and South Africa they are telecast...

what do you think makes them headlines.????

ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MALES>>

history has it recorded sadly men do out number females when it comes to murder....

more husbands kill wives than wives kill husbands...

is that somehow the MEDIAS FAULT?

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:06am

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

his is an example of why we should never let the public have any say in deciding these things, and is also why long legal trials are needed if justice is to be carried out. I mean, despite JA claiming self defense and using a knife and a gun that she'd brought with her, it can easily be argued that the crime itself was 'not' premeditated. But if her defense fails to do a good job of defending her (now that she has already been found guilty), she may get the death penalty

I have news for you sunshine..
'
THE PUBLIC DOESNT HAVE A SAY IN THE OUTCOME OF ANY TRIAL....

this is a public forum but its still only for its members...I doubt very much any jury would be studying public forums..

get your facts right..people on here are voicing opinions just like neighbours do...they are not influencing anything....and as we see after many trials all sorts of things come out about the murderer...things that BY LAW are not in the media before the case is dealt with.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:40am

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:03am:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

GA wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

what the hell are you talking about???...

he wasnt married to her??? REALLY!

and who is Jodi Arias...

I dont care to be called a dummy thank you...

Then don't make it look like 'I' don't know what I'm on about. The 'husband' factor was only incidental to the crime itself, which my understanding had to do with money and infidelity.

Quote:

and if you care to look at some stats you will find that most people who are murdered are by someone they are related too...

A statistic police consider first. But not something we should worry about, having relatives might make the chance of being harmed more likely, statistically only. It's not the 'relative' that is the factor itself, but is that person's circumstances & personality that's responsible for the crime, is what I'm saying. Whereas the inference that can easily be had is 'husbands and relatives' need be feared, from what you are implying.

Quote:

its got not a thing to do with male female... whether it makes the media.. Pistorious is famous like OJ they just happen to be MALE..

if a famous female killed her husband/partner she too would be headlines..In countries like America and South Africa they are telecast...

what do you think makes them headlines.????

Baden-Clay wasn't famous. And 'Oscar Pistorius' gets 6 million + hits on Google, Jodi Arias 3+ million hits.

Quote:

ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MALES>>

[quote]history has it recorded sadly men do out number females when it comes to murder....

more husbands kill wives than wives kill husbands...

is that somehow the MEDIAS FAULT?

[/quote]

It is not the 'husband' that is the factor, it's the individual that's responsible. And statistics like that can generally be ignored, and that's because a man (leaving hormonal influences out of the argument) is generally 'bigger', and therefore more capable of killing his partner, than she killing him. We can't rely on statistics if we are going to avoid being mislead, is the point.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:44am

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:06am:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

Penalties being handed out are increasingly reflecting the public wishes rather than what is appropriate. You get your facts straight, 'sunshine'.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by red baron on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm

Of course Australians are going to be more interested in Australian homicides rather than those occurring overseas. Occasionally a sensational case overseas captures our attention.

If we were to talk about all the homicides overseas, as well as home grown, this site would run out of space.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 1:03pm

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:44am:

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:06am:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

Penalties being handed out are increasingly reflecting the public wishes rather than what is appropriate. You get your facts straight, 'sunshine'.

REALLY.........not that I have seen... but you sound like you have inside info...so can you perhaps show me where this has taken place..

LAWS get changed by pressure......BUT THAT DOESNT ALWAYS MEAN IT APPLIES TO THE COURTS...

how many people spend LIFE in jail???...

I dont know about you.. but LIFE means to me they come out in a coffin..

as far as I know we do not have too many that will do that.....

Baden Clay will be lucky to serve 15 years should his appeal be dismissed....

we have a sick justice system... we even have judges telling us in the future we will be accepting incest... ::) ::)..because we now accept gays......makes sense to some.

its judges that abuse the system and they dont give a sh!t about the public and what it wants.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 1:08pm

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

silly sausage can make his own thread.. who cares...this thread was about saying goodbye to Allison whos life was cut short..

I read a lot of books on murderers mostly American and you are right.. there wouldnt be enough room on any forum to mention them all...horrific numbers..and the latest where the male shot his own children in the back of their heads...is something I cannot come to grips with there is nothing that can excuse that..there is no punishment that will change that or make anything better...

the sickness out there is growing worse..

and the gun brigade sit back and polish their nails...

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 2:36pm

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

We are talking about the vilification of men (and males generally), not crime itself. And all of this chivalrous stuff we are seeing here from crap factories like Cods, is really just that a load of crap. If AB-C had murdered her husband, instead of him murdering her, it would have been less of a story (and she would probably get less than ten years jail when she was convicted). Now, I'm not complaining about the disparities involved, only pointing to an anti-male trend, which although being part of a natural tendency, is still a dangerous direction to be taking.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Aussie on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 4:18pm

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

I think your basic premise is right. If a man kills a woman, the tears are jerked. It does not happen when a woman kills a man.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Lady Lols on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 9:45pm

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 1:03pm:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:44am:

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:06am:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

Penalties being handed out are increasingly reflecting the public wishes rather than what is appropriate. You get your facts straight, 'sunshine'.

There are members of the general public that do make the decisions in a court after all the evidence is presented, when they are called in to do 'jury duty'....randomly selected people, yes, from the general public, from all walks of life and backgrounds.

As for any of my comments on some random murder in another country, from the only evidence I am allowed to read that is open to the public, is all I, or anyone else, can comment on, capice GA?

Re: America and all their murders.....and Australia, are like poles apart. Is the general whole of America interested in what happens in Oz? (let along know where we are on the world map?)....
Their population is over 317 million, with an average of 2000 cops being killed in the line of duty per annum.
Our population is in Oz is about 23 million, with an average of 2 cops being killed in the line of duty per annum.

I would say America have more than enough worries without having to worry about other countries as such.

This is why each country have their own laws, but not always the same as each other, heck, even in the US of A, different states have different laws, one state will have the death penalty, whilst another won't.

I consider Australia as a big country town, where anything that happens in any State, we seem more rocked by the news, and tuned in, and it just makes us think of it more.
In Amercia, they have so much of it happening, it's just 'another day, another murder'. Their cup runneth over.

As for men seemingly being vilified more, I don't know about that, Lindy Chamberlain for instance, was very vilified.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 8:10am

Aussie wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

I think your basic premise is right. If a man kills a woman, the tears are jerked. It does not happen when a woman kills a man.

crap.... this is a public forum.. go make your own threads on WOMEN THAT KILL MEN>..

no one is stopping you...

for gods sake..

what a bunch of whiners...MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD>>>

SHED YOUR TEARS

I am not crying at all its a very public murder a lot of people searched for weeks to find her...same with Daniel....you become involved somehow...what the hells wrong with that.???

dont come on a thread thats about a womens murder by a man....if thats the way you feel.. GO AWAY.

talk about childish...

may I suggest you read up about Katherine Knight...she is up there with Australia worst murderers...probably the worlds worst.

and yes she did kill her husband.....maybe you could start a crying thread ...about her.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by cods on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 8:18am

Sophia wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 9:45pm:

again these people are especially chosen..from a large group.

and they do not make the decision on guilt...

they take the law and use the evidence to fit the letter of the law that is already set down...

they do not make the LAWS. as has been suggested...

if the jury gets it wrong.. or the judge.. then it goes back to court...in some cases more than once.

we have a strange system but it is fair by some standards....and of course can always be better...

the male of the species seems to me to be the most violent one.....maybe I am wrong. :(

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:18am

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 1:03pm:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:44am:

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 11:06am:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

Penalties being handed out are increasingly reflecting the public wishes rather than what is appropriate. You get your facts straight, 'sunshine'.

And: We're not talking about 'laws being changed', it's the sentences handed out that are changing. Judges are giving into an overemotional public instead of applying their expertise. Attention seeking zealots like Derryn Hinch are in effect deciding how justice is dispensed, when it's people like him that should be getting the longer jail time.

Quote:

how many people spend LIFE in jail???...

I dont know about you.. but LIFE means to me they come out in a coffin..

as far as I know we do not have too many that will do that.....

Baden Clay will be lucky to serve 15 years should his appeal be dismissed....

I never followed the trial, but if some scratches on his face were all that got him convicted, then he deserves a retrial.

Quote:

we have a sick justice system... we even have judges telling us in the future we will be accepting incest... ::) ::)..because we now accept gays......makes sense to some.

It should make sense (as logic) to anyone who accepts homosexuality as a norm. Besides, that judge appeared to be pointing to an anomaly, in that we accept one type of 'variation' but reject (for now) another. When both should be non-acceptable, at least as public behavior.

Quote:

its judges that abuse the system and they dont give a sh!t about the public and what it wants.

Gotcha! You are saying it's the 'stone-throwers', not the experts, that should be deciding the
penalties.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am

Aussie wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

I think your basic premise is right. If a man kills a woman, the tears are jerked. It does not happen when a woman kills a man.

It's a natural response. But the problem is if emotions start dictating to us the direction society is taking, then we do have a problem. I mean consider the logic: We need to show more concern for women and children because they are the primary components needed for our propagation, which is the reason why of course it's women and children into the life-boats first (nothing to do with chivalry aspect by itself). But now that the situation is that the world is suffering from an oversupply of people, children (in the clinical sense) have become a liability. But of course, we are not going to go against our natural instincts and not want to protect them, but do have to consider looking at the situation from the other end, that is if the newly emerging now present a potential problem, then those that are dying, the more knowledgeable elderly, also creates a problem. We have a double whammy situation.

The real point to all of what I'm saying above is that we have to put in place a political party that represents the thinking (minority) of the public, if we are going to avoid directions being set by a non-thinking majority.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by Phemanderac on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:09am

GA wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

I think your basic premise is right. If a man kills a woman, the tears are jerked. It does not happen when a woman kills a man.

You make some good points GA, however, I would respectfully suggest that your premise above is slightly flawed...

We protect Women and Children ostensibly because we (overall) see them as weaker and less able to protect themselves. Now I am not commenting on whether or not that is the right way to see women and children, however, as far as propagation of our species go, well technology aside, Men and Women would seem to be of equal import regarding propagation of our species, whereas children are the result of said propagation.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:28am

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

silly sausage can make his own thread.. who cares...this thread was about saying goodbye to Allison whos life was cut short..

A tear-jerking tribute to someone that none of us know personally. And what about all of the other mothers (ignoring fathers of course) that have died in that time, where do we recognize them here, stupid.

Quote:

I read a lot of books on murderers mostly American and you are right.. there wouldnt be enough room on any forum to mention them all...horrific numbers..and the latest where the male shot his own children in the back of their heads...is something I cannot come to grips with there is nothing that can excuse that..there is no punishment that will change that or make anything better...

the sickness out there is growing worse..

and the gun brigade sit back and polish their nails...

And when have I suggested that 'murder' should be a topic in itself in a political forum. The Jodi Arias trial (which at least has a political aspect in that it involves a death penalty) was used as an example only of something that gets worldwide coverage but is ignored by the over-emotionalism in place here.

And if guns are a problem, then men are an even greater problem. As, for example, there are more guns than there are males in the USA.

(Making any such suggestion look as stupid as clearly it is).

For example, there would have been maybe hundreds of thousands AR-15 rifles (the weapon Martin Bryan used) manufactured in the USA, but despite that number, they would have been used in only (most probably less) than hundreds of murders, in other words, numerically speaking, there is no correlation, stupid.

Title: Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Post by GA on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:43am

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:09am:

GA wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

GA wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

I think your basic premise is right. If a man kills a woman, the tears are jerked. It does not happen when a woman kills a man.

A female lion is hardly weak (as it is them that do most of the hunting), but it's still the job of the male lions to protect the pride. A lioness will protect it's offspring because they are essential to the ongoing survival of the pride. And men could be completely dispensed with at this point in time, whereas the same can't be said for females.

Correction: I didn't ignore 'technology', but that aside, a women can produce a little over one child a year, whereas a man could produce 365 with little problem.