The first Australian suicide bomber in Iraq reportedly killed three people in the heart of Baghdad on Thursday, raising the involvement of local jihadists in the spiralling violence to a chilling new level.

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) announced on an affiliated Twitter feed overnight that a man called Abu Bakr al-Australi had detonated an explosives vest near a Shiite mosque in a market near the middle of the Iraqi capital. More than 90 people were also injured in the blast.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/first-australian-suicide-bomber-in-iraq-reportedly-kills-three-people-in-baghdad-20140718-3c4oe.html#ixzz37mCMcTec



  We are off and running  :(

Quote:

And meanwhile Labour and the Greens in parliament  are seeking to block about security measures targeting potential terrorists as they see it as being an invasion of privacy. The invasion of my privacy at the moment is seeing people on the streets here who are campaigning for Islamic fundamentalist change to our free and democratic society. Unless migrants can prove they are accepting of Australia's open, modern democratic culture keep them out. I am sick of those that believe in a multi cultural society which at the same time is eroding the wonderful free society we already have. Unless immigrants can prove they are open to modern change and accepting of Australian culture keep them out. I don't want to live in some tribalised slum, and that's where Australia is heading given the myopic policies of the immigration department who accept anyone with any values.]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/australian-suicide-bomber-kills-five-people-at-baghdad-mosque/story-e6frg6n6-1229693346829

deport any Islamic from Aussie

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 9:54pm:

Quote: And meanwhile Labour and the Greens in parliament  are seeking to block about security measures targeting potential terrorists as they see it as being an invasion of privacy. The invasion of my privacy at the moment is seeing people on the streets here who are campaigning for Islamic fundamentalist change to our free and democratic society. Unless migrants can prove they are accepting of Australia's open, modern democratic culture keep them out. I am sick of those that believe in a multi cultural society which at the same time is eroding the wonderful free society we already have. Unless immigrants can prove they are open to modern change and accepting of Australian culture keep them out. I don't want to live in some tribalised slum, and that's where Australia is heading given the myopic policies of the immigration department who accept anyone with any values.] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/australian-suicide-bomber-kills-five-people-at-baghdad-mosque/story-e6frg6n6-1229693346829 deport any Islamic from Aussie

And how can you deport Australian citizens born in Australia from their home country, Sprint?

Such levels of intolerance are amazing even for you.   

As for The Australian, we know what Rupert thinks about others being free to think things differently to him.  Erosion of civil liberties is a far greater danger to our society because of fear and panic about a tiny minority of different people in our midst, is something we should all be fearful of while proposing to destroy their citizenship is dangerous thought we should resist always.

To misquote Pastor Niemoller:


Quote:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Socialist.     Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Trade Unionist.     Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Jew.     Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out-     Because I was not a Muslim.     Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

You are a sick, intolerant person who expresses bigotry towards Muslims.

As John Stuart Mill suggested, "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."  I refuse to look on, Sprint and I will resist you and your ilk as much as I am able to.

I think in your case Brian, it should be


    First they came for the Pedophiles, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Pedophile.

    Then they came for the Murderous thugs, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Murderous thug.

    Then they came for the Rapists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Rapist.

    Then they came for the White ants, and I di..........

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:40am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 9:54pm: Quote: And meanwhile Labour and the Greens in parliament  are seeking to block about security measures targeting potential terrorists as they see it as being an invasion of privacy. The invasion of my privacy at the moment is seeing people on the streets here who are campaigning for Islamic fundamentalist change to our free and democratic society. Unless migrants can prove they are accepting of Australia's open, modern democratic culture keep them out. I am sick of those that believe in a multi cultural society which at the same time is eroding the wonderful free society we already have. Unless immigrants can prove they are open to modern change and accepting of Australian culture keep them out. I don't want to live in some tribalised slum, and that's where Australia is heading given the myopic policies of the immigration department who accept anyone with any values.] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/australian-suicide-bomber-kills-five-people-at-baghdad-mosque/story-e6frg6n6-1229693346829 deport any Islamic from Aussie And how can you deport Australian citizens born in Australia from their home country, Sprint? Such levels of intolerance are amazing even for you.    As for The Australian, we know what Rupert thinks about others being free to think things differently to him.  Erosion of civil liberties is a far greater danger to our society because of fear and panic about a tiny minority of different people in our midst, is something we should all be fearful of while proposing to destroy their citizenship is dangerous thought we should resist always. To misquote Pastor Niemoller: [quote]     First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Socialist.     Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Trade Unionist.     Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Jew.     Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out-     Because I was not a Muslim.     Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

You are a sick, intolerant person who expresses bigotry towards Muslims.

As John Stuart Mill suggested, "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."  I refuse to look on, Sprint and I will resist you and your ilk as much as I am able to.[/quote]

Then they came for the Shites, but I did not speak out, for it is politically incorrect to criticise Muslims for strapping on explosive vests and walking into Mosques.

Damn, they came for the white ants and Poo couldn't finish his first ever post off.

Should we be reading something into that?

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:40pm:

Then they came for the Shites, but I did not speak out, for it is politically incorrect to criticise Muslims for strapping on explosive vests and walking into Mosques.

Thats nice FD - and yet I didn't see Brian make one mention of not wanting to criticise suicide bombers who blow up worshippers at mosques.

What he did criticise though was the call for all "islamics" [sic] to be deported from Australia.

What do you think about the actual statement that Brian was talking about? Was it something that you would join Brian in condemning? Or do you prefer spinelessly apologising for it by building strawmen to attack Brian?

brumbie wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

The first Australian suicide bomber in Iraq reportedly killed three people in the heart of Baghdad on Thursday, raising the involvement of local jihadists in the spiralling violence to a chilling new level. The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) announced on an affiliated Twitter feed overnight that a man called Abu Bakr al-Australi had detonated an explosives vest near a Shiite mosque in a market near the middle of the Iraqi capital. More than 90 people were also injured in the blast. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/first-australian-suicide-bomber-in-iraq-reportedly-kills-three-people-in-baghdad-20140718-3c4oe.html#ixzz37mCMcTec

From your link-

Quote:

Sydney muslim Mohammad Elomar welcomed the news on his twitter account- 'may Allah accept him"

Muslims believe you will go to heaven for being suicidal and homicidal, of course the rewards from Allah are up to 72 houris with an everlasting erection to service them along with rivers of wine, think of the Islamic afterlife as a whorehouse combined with a tavern.

While muslims believe they will be rewarded for terrorist acts they will keep happening.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

Muslims believe you will go to heaven for being suicidal and homicida

Lets not generalise Baron - there's at least one muslim who doesn't fit your caricature.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 19th, 2014 at 1:00pm: Muslims believe you will go to heaven for being suicidal and homicida Lets not generalise Baron - there's at least one muslim who doesn't fit your caricature.

What only one out of a billion muslims ;D

there have been many muslim terrorists before him who claimed from Australia.

charge the mosques here for the expenses we incur coming from them

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:40pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2014 at 12:40am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 9:54pm: Quote: And meanwhile Labour and the Greens in parliament  are seeking to block about security measures targeting potential terrorists as they see it as being an invasion of privacy. The invasion of my privacy at the moment is seeing people on the streets here who are campaigning for Islamic fundamentalist change to our free and democratic society. Unless migrants can prove they are accepting of Australia's open, modern democratic culture keep them out. I am sick of those that believe in a multi cultural society which at the same time is eroding the wonderful free society we already have. Unless immigrants can prove they are open to modern change and accepting of Australian culture keep them out. I don't want to live in some tribalised slum, and that's where Australia is heading given the myopic policies of the immigration department who accept anyone with any values.] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/australian-suicide-bomber-kills-five-people-at-baghdad-mosque/story-e6frg6n6-1229693346829 deport any Islamic from Aussie And how can you deport Australian citizens born in Australia from their home country, Sprint? Such levels of intolerance are amazing even for you.    As for The Australian, we know what Rupert thinks about others being free to think things differently to him.  Erosion of civil liberties is a far greater danger to our society because of fear and panic about a tiny minority of different people in our midst, is something we should all be fearful of while proposing to destroy their citizenship is dangerous thought we should resist always. To misquote Pastor Niemoller: [quote]     First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Socialist.     Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Trade Unionist.     Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—     Because I was not a Jew.     Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out-     Because I was not a Muslim.     Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. You are a sick, intolerant person who expresses bigotry towards Muslims. As John Stuart Mill suggested, "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."  I refuse to look on, Sprint and I will resist you and your ilk as much as I am able to.

Then they came for the Shites, but I did not speak out, for it is politically incorrect to criticise Muslims for strapping on explosive vests and walking into Mosques.[/quote]

Is it, FD?  Perhaps you'd care to demonstrate where I have ever suggested such a thing or is your new game thatching?

So, perhaps you'd care to speak to the point.  Is it OK for Australian citizens to have their citizenships revoked, en masse, even if they were born within the borders of Australia (or it's territories) and committed no crime other than it seems sharing the name of their religion with some exremists overseas?

What's next?  You'd support the idea that the children of Muslims should be removed and raised as Christians to satisfy your views that ALL Muslims are guilty of being well, Muslims?   Afterall, the Australian Government did it to our indigenous Australians, now didn't they when they attempted Genocide against them.   Would you have supported that as well?  After all, the Indigenes weren't Christians, either.   ::) ::)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

there have been many muslim terrorists before him who claimed from Australia. charge the mosques here for the expenses we incur coming from them

What expenses?

Why haven't you answered my question, Sprint?  Unable to?

Here it is again, in case you missed it the first time:


Quote:

how can you deport Australian citizens born in Australia from their home country, Sprint?

Please answer it.   ::)

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:53pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2014 at 12:40pm: Then they came for the Shites, but I did not speak out, for it is politically incorrect to criticise Muslims for strapping on explosive vests and walking into Mosques. Thats nice FD - and yet I didn't see Brian make one mention of not wanting to criticise suicide bombers who blow up worshippers at mosques. What he did criticise though was the call for all "islamics" [sic] to be deported from Australia. What do you think about the actual statement that Brian was talking about? Was it something that you would join Brian in condemning? Or do you prefer spinelessly apologising for it by building strawmen to attack Brian?

Don't worry, Gandalf, it's just FD up to his usual tricks, being an apologist for Sprint's appalling views on Muslims because he seems to share them.   ::)

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:53pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2014 at 12:40pm: Then they came for the Shites, but I did not speak out, for it is politically incorrect to criticise Muslims for strapping on explosive vests and walking into Mosques. Thats nice FD - and yet I didn't see Brian make one mention of not wanting to criticise suicide bombers who blow up worshippers at mosques. What he did criticise though was the call for all "islamics" [sic] to be deported from Australia. What do you think about the actual statement that Brian was talking about? Was it something that you would join Brian in condemning? Or do you prefer spinelessly apologising for it by building strawmen to attack Brian?

I think we should refuse citizenship to people who are ideologically opposed to our core values. This would involve the deportation of non-citizens who are already here. Some might even be Muslims. I would draw the line at people who are citizens. Deportation loses it's meaning in that context.

You seem to have missed the point of the poem Brian quoted about "not speaking out".

Quote:

Thats nice FD - and yet I didn't see Brian make one mention of not wanting to criticise suicide bombers who blow up worshippers at mosques.

This is how Brian feels about criticising Muslims:


freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 6:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15th, 2013 at 5:39pm: Quote: Is this the Islam you are so keen to defend with your "fair deal" nonsense, what about those who no longer believe in that bullshit barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit do they deserve a fair deal like article 18 of the Universal declaration of human rights? [quote]7 nations where atheism is punishable by death. All 7 establish Islam as the state religion. Pakistan,Saudi Arabia,Iran,Afghanistan,Sudan,Mauritania and the Maldives www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/10/the-seven-countries-where-the-state-can-execute-you-for-being-atheist/ I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV.  I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments.   It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.  I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

[/quote]

Brian Ross:


Quote:

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV.  I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments.   It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.  I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

Needless to say, this is the very definition of moral cowardice.

Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Or say nothing, in case they 'offend'.

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2014 at 8:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19th, 2014 at 12:53pm: freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2014 at 12:40pm: Then they came for the Shites, but I did not speak out, for it is politically incorrect to criticise Muslims for strapping on explosive vests and walking into Mosques. Thats nice FD - and yet I didn't see Brian make one mention of not wanting to criticise suicide bombers who blow up worshippers at mosques. What he did criticise though was the call for all "islamics" [sic] to be deported from Australia. What do you think about the actual statement that Brian was talking about? Was it something that you would join Brian in condemning? Or do you prefer spinelessly apologising for it by building strawmen to attack Brian? I think we should refuse citizenship to people who are ideologically opposed to our core values. This would involve the deportation of non-citizens who are already here. Some might even be Muslims. I would draw the line at people who are citizens. Deportation loses it's meaning in that context.

So you disagree with Sprint, then, FD?


Quote:

You seem to have missed the point of the poem Brian quoted about "not speaking out".

Oh, but I am speaking out.  I am speaking out against fascism of the type proposed by Sprint and his ilk, FD.   Would you prefer I stood by and did nothing?

I can speak out against Sprint's and even your intolerance, FD.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:40am:

You are a sick, intolerant person who expresses bigotry towards

So are you Brian, do you realise why?


Brian Ross wrote on Jul 20^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

I am speaking out against fascism of the type proposed by Sprint and his ilk

Fascism? You have lost the plot Brian.


Brian Ross wrote on Jul 20^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

I can speak out against Sprint's and even your intolerance,

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The next term Brian will use is Racist to stifle and shut down the topic.

You don't debate, so why should you care Matty?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Quote:

Oh, but I am speaking out.  I am speaking out against fascism of the type proposed by Sprint and his ilk, FD.   Would you prefer I stood by and did nothing?

I would prefer you weren't so hypocritical about it.

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 6:50pm:

I would prefer you weren't so hypocritical about it.

A bit like railing against one type of fascism, but not speaking out against people who call for fascism to be imposed in this country by deporting/punishing citizens on the basis of religion?

Wasnt the suppossed first suicide bomber from qld few months ago, so how can the original article claim that abu bakr al australi was the first suicide bomber?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 7:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21st, 2014 at 6:50pm: I would prefer you weren't so hypocritical about it. A bit like railing against one type of fascism, but not speaking out against people who call for fascism to be imposed in this country by deporting/punishing citizens on the basis of religion?

You still haven't figured it out yet have you Gandalf? I'm pretty sure you have previously revealed your own personal distaste for Brian's spineless apologetics. You must have forgotten.

In any case, he did not merely fail to criticise one type of fascism. He provided a skin crawling justification for why his is both incapable and unentitled to.

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 8:50pm:

In any case, he did not merely fail to criticise one type of fascism. He provided a skin crawling justification for why his is both incapable and unentitled to.

This latest campaign was in response to Brian posting the Niemöller quote - which I just found interesting because not speaking out against those who (if you like) "came for the muslims" is exactly what you are doing.

wally1 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Wasnt the suppossed first suicide bomber from qld few months ago, so how can the original article claim that abu bakr al australi was the first suicide bomber?

The link in the op states he was the first to blow himself up in Iraq, the link also mentions the other who blew himself up in Syria.

Muslims kids..they blow up pretty fast.. :)

Walid and Gandalf- Do you think these suicidal homicidal devout muslims will be rewarded by allah with houris and rivers of wine in paradise or will they burn in the hellfire for all eternity?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 9:42pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21st, 2014 at 8:50pm: In any case, he did not merely fail to criticise one type of fascism. He provided a skin crawling justification for why his is both incapable and unentitled to. This latest campaign was in response to Brian posting the Niemöller quote - which I just found interesting because not speaking out against those who (if you like) "came for the muslims" is exactly what you are doing.

I have spoken out in defence of Muslims before. Interesting that you bring up that quote. Don't you think it is hypocritical and hollow, given his previous explanations for why he is incapable and has no right to speak out in other contexts? The irony of Brian using that particular quote was not lost on others either. We are not ignoring it. We are responding to Brian's galling hypocrisy - which you are still apparently blind to.

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Don't you think it is hypocritical and hollow, given his previous explanations for why he is incapable and has no right to speak out in other contexts?

Those "other contexts" were specifically the laws and practices of other countries. Here we have people openly calling for persecution of people based on their religious beliefs - right here in our own country. I actually think this constitutes a fairly serious threat that has far more relevance to us all - as Australians. So no, I don't really think its hypocritical for Brian to be more concerned about what happens in the society in which we live in - than to foreign communities living on the other side of the world that he has nothing to do with.


freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 10:10pm:

We are responding to Brian's galling hypocrisy - which you are still apparently blind to.

99% of posters here come here to demonize muslims and islam. While Brian has made it clear he has little sympathy for islam, he probably feels that space is well and trully covered - so much so that some counter views are needed to level things up a bit - if ever so slightly. So instead of refuting the vitriolic crap that sprint and yadda spew (which I am certain you yourself recognise as crap), you run after Brian all day - not because what he says is anywhere near as reprehensible as what most others here say - but because you simply can't bring yourself to address what you must know are the lies and dishonesty of the anti-muslim crowd. Hence this latest attack on Brian is entirely hypocritical on your part.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 9:59pm:

wally1 wrote on Jul 21st, 2014 at 8:25pm: Wasnt the suppossed first suicide bomber from qld few months ago, so how can the original article claim that abu bakr al australi was the first suicide bomber? The link in the op states he was the first to blow himself up in Iraq, the link also mentions the other who blew himself up in Syria. Muslims kids..they blow up pretty fast.. :) Walid and Gandalf- Do you think these suicidal homicidal devout muslims will be rewarded by allah with houris and rivers of wine in paradise or will they burn in the hellfire for all eternity?

I dont know, i dont control who enters hell or heaven.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 9:59pm:

wally1 wrote on Jul 21st, 2014 at 8:25pm: Wasnt the suppossed first suicide bomber from qld few months ago, so how can the original article claim that abu bakr al australi was the first suicide bomber? The link in the op states he was the first to blow himself up in Iraq, the link also mentions the other who blew himself up in Syria. Muslims kids..they blow up pretty fast.. :) Walid and Gandalf- Do you think these suicidal homicidal devout muslims will be rewarded by allah with houris and rivers of wine in paradise or will they burn in the hellfire for all eternity?

The first suicide bomber supposedly blew himself up in syria but there is no solid proof.

If anything i reckon the aussies are faking there deaths in iraq cause they no there not coming back aus and are just stalling the aussie authorities.

fact - all the suicide bombers in this thread are muslims.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2014 at 10:17am:

fact - all the suicide bombers in this thread are muslims.

Quote:

Bigotry is the state of mind of someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person's ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry]  ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

The tamil tigers where the world professors when it came to suicide bombings,  even before the muslims copied it.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 21^st, 2014 at 9:59pm:

Walid and Gandalf- Do you think these suicidal homicidal devout muslims will be rewarded by allah with houris and rivers of wine in paradise or will they burn in the hellfire for all eternity?

Why are gandalf and Walid ignoring this question?

because they don't like the accusatory tone of the question?

Quote:

A second Australian man has reportedly become a suicide bomber, according to convicted terrorist Khaled Sharrouf

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/26/second-australian-reportedly-becomes-suicide-bomber


and another one.

I am accusing islam of producing these terrorists

Quote:

The claim, posted on Twitter by Sharrouf and first reported by The Australian, follows news that an 18-year-old Melbourne man Adam Dahman was behind an attack which killed five people in Baghdad this month. The tweet, posted yesterday on a timeline dotted with grisly images of executed Syrian soldiers, stated that “Mashallah two Australians do martyrdom operations in a week killings 100dreds may Allah accept them in the highest jan”. No further details on the Australian in questions have been released. Earlier this week, the federal government confirmed that a suicide bomber, described as a “knight” and martyr named as Abu Bakral Australi by terror group ISIL, was from Melbourne. The government said the man was 17 when he left Australia for the region last year. Attorney-General George Brandis described the development as “disturbing”. “The participation by Australians in the conflict in Iraq and Syria poses a significant domestic security threat to Australia when those involved return home and seek to pursue violence here,” Senator Brandis said.

yep, looks like a muslim to me

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2014 at 3:47pm:

because they don't like the accusatory tone of the question?

So you are avoiding the question because allah will reward these suicidal-homicidal muslims?

How can Islamic terror be stopped when Allah rewards muslims for being suicidal-homicidal?

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 1:29pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 3:47pm: because they don't like the accusatory tone of the question? So you are avoiding the question because allah will reward these suicidal-homicidal muslims? How can Islamic terror be stopped when Allah rewards muslims for being suicidal-homicidal?

Does it?  How can a mythical being reward anything?

Suicide attacks are a recurrent feature of many conflicts. Whereas warfare heroism and martyrdom are allowed in certain circumstances in times of war, a suicide bomber might be committing at least five crimes according to Islamic law, namely killing civilians, mutilating their bodies, violating the trust of enemy soldiers and civilians, committing suicide and destroying civilian objects or properties. The author examines such attacks from an Islamic jus in bello perspective.

Perhaps it's a matter of interpretation?  The Islamist loonies believe they will be rewarded, yet reputable Islamic Scholars seem to be saying otherwise.  Why should you and the rest of us accept the interpretation of the Islamist loonies over that of the reputable scholars?  You peddle only one side of the debate because it suits your purpose to portray the Islamist viewpoint as being that of mainstream Islam when in reality it isn't!   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

What exactly are the Islamic rule on mutilating bodies? How does that work with stoning people to death, beheading etc? Does Islam forbid the use of explosives?

from the same source

Some extracts from the first page


The leading figure among the Lebanese Shiite community, Sayyid
Muhammad Hussayn Fadlallah, gave them his endorsement. He stated, "Sometimes you may find some situations where you have to take risks. When reality requires a shock, delivered with violence, so you can call upon all those things buried within, and expand all the horizons around you – as, for example, in the self-martyrdom operations, which some called suicide operations".

We view this as religiously lawful warfare against the world’s imperialist and domineering powers.

For Fadlallah there is no difference between setting out for battle knowing you will die after killing ten of the enemy, and setting out to the field to kill ten and knowing you will die while killing them.

Without suicide bombers/martyrdom operations, ‘‘we wouldn’t have been able to win’’,

I've yet to see one muslim or their apologist prove beyond doubt that fundamentalist suicide bombers are not devoutly following the qur'an, allah, Muhammad and islam

wally1 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2014 at 1:06pm:

The tamil tigers where the world professors when it came to suicide bombings,  even before the muslims copied it.

And the Muslims proved themselves excellent pupils and are doing it long after the prof has stopped.

And they are doing it to each other. What genius!!

The positive thing is that at least this suicide bomber won't be slipping back through some Australian airport somewhere. He put his money where his mouth is and did a one way trip. The same can't be said for that coward jihadist who  just arrived back from the Philippines.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 9:54pm:

... deport any Islamic from Aussie

Our government has allowed scores of these 'Australian' Muslims back into the country from Syria and Iraq.

ASIO is 'keeping an eye on them'.

It's just amazing, isn't it? The Italians, Japs and Germans were interned here in camps during WWII to make sure they weren't up to mischief, but here we have Muslims who we know have been assisting terrorists in the Middle East ~ now swanning around our suburbs as 'blooded' jihadists who hate everything we stand for.

Abbott has made a lot of changes since his short time in office, but I'm still waiting for him to turn his attention to what every other politician has ignored as "the elephant in the room" ~ and "political dynamite" ... ie. our growing Muslim population with its percentage of anti-Western psychos.

moses wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 7:37pm:

from the same source Some extracts from the first page The leading figure among the Lebanese Shiite community, Sayyid Muhammad Hussayn Fadlallah, gave them his endorsement. He stated, "Sometimes you may find some situations where you have to take risks. When reality requires a shock, delivered with violence, so you can call upon all those things buried within, and expand all the horizons around you – as, for example, in the self-martyrdom operations, which some called suicide operations". We view this as religiously lawful warfare against the world’s imperialist and domineering powers. For Fadlallah there is no difference between setting out for battle knowing you will die after killing ten of the enemy, and setting out to the field to kill ten and knowing you will die while killing them. Without suicide bombers/martyrdom operations, ‘‘we wouldn’t have been able to win’’, I've yet to see one muslim or their apologist prove beyond doubt that fundamentalist suicide bombers are not devoutly following the qur'an, allah, Muhammad and islam

I would like to thank Hot Breath for bringing yet another Muslim pro-suicide bombing article to our attention. Got any more HB?

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

I would like to thank Hot Breath for bringing yet another Muslim pro-suicide bombing article to our attention.

It is not. He is quoting a Lebanese shiite leader who endorses it - under the sub-title "Rulings of some Muslim scholars regarding suicide attacks"

The article sums up by stating...


Quote:

A suicide mission is therefore contrary to the norms of Islamic jus in bello and has no place in Islamic legal thought. Such an act cannot be a norm of battlefield behaviour in Islam, for the established rules of Islamic jus in bello cannot be replaced by acts that are prohibited in war. The opinions of the ulama who endorse suicide attacks are their personal opinions; they are not binding on others. Their opinions have repeatedly tarnished the image of Islam and have given it a negative reputation. If they are accepted, then we shall have to revise the original treatises of our great doctors of Islamic law.

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

moses wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 7:37pm: from the same source Some extracts from the first page The leading figure among the Lebanese Shiite community, Sayyid Muhammad Hussayn Fadlallah, gave them his endorsement. He stated, "Sometimes you may find some situations where you have to take risks. When reality requires a shock, delivered with violence, so you can call upon all those things buried within, and expand all the horizons around you – as, for example, in the self-martyrdom operations, which some called suicide operations". We view this as religiously lawful warfare against the world’s imperialist and domineering powers. For Fadlallah there is no difference between setting out for battle knowing you will die after killing ten of the enemy, and setting out to the field to kill ten and knowing you will die while killing them. Without suicide bombers/martyrdom operations, ‘‘we wouldn’t have been able to win’’, I've yet to see one muslim or their apologist prove beyond doubt that fundamentalist suicide bombers are not devoutly following the qur'an, allah, Muhammad and islam I would like to thank Hot Breath for bringing yet another Muslim pro-suicide bombing article to our attention. Got any more HB?

I would like to thank FD for showing his endorsement for Moses' cherry picking of that article.  He uses the pro argument which the author actually argues against.   Tsk, tsk.  I don't expect any better from Moses but you just keep on disappointing me, FD.  ::)

It's just another suicide bomber.

Blown out of all proportion.

8-)

Fundamentalist suicide muslims are convinced that they are obeying the tenets of islam, the commands of allah, the teachings of muhammad, the verses in the qur'an.

They would not commit suicide and deliberately condemn themselves to allah's hellfires, these muslims are absolutely certain they are next in line for a room full of big breasted hour'is and little boys with eyes like pearls.

They are morally / passively supported by all muslims & their bootlicking apologists, who totally refuse to denigrate and ridicule those tenets of islam, commands of allah, teachings of muhammad, verses in the qur'an, which they are devoutly following, in order to become the highest grade of muslim according to the cult's (islam) doctrine.

islam, the worlds largest cult of killers.

moses wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 4:40am:

They are morally / passively supported by all muslims & their bootlicking apologist

Speak for yourself.

Quote:

The article sums up by stating... Quote: A suicide mission is therefore contrary to the norms of Islamic jus in bello

Ah, now it all makes sense.


Quote:

I would like to thank FD for showing his endorsement for Moses' cherry picking of that article.  He uses the pro argument which the author actually argues against.

Is the author a Muslim?

I am still waiting for an explanation of how suicide bombing violates Islam's rules on mutilating bodies. You seem to have slithered away from that particular argument rather quickly.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 10:07am:

moses wrote on Jul 29th, 2014 at 4:40am: They are morally / passively supported by all muslims & their bootlicking apologist Speak for yourself.

I think he was speaking for you there Gandalf. And Brian of course. You seem to have taken an ideological lurch lately towards both Brian and Abu, if that is possible.

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

Quote: [quote]I would like to thank FD for showing his endorsement for Moses' cherry picking of that article.  He uses the pro argument which the author actually argues against. Is the author a Muslim?

Is it important?


Quote:

I am still waiting for an explanation of how suicide bombing violates Islam's rules on mutilating bodies. You seem to have slithered away from that particular argument rather quickly.

I don't think you asked it of me, FD.   ::)

It's just another nail in the coffin Brian. The bit about mutilating bodies is what really triggers my bullshit detector.

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 9:18pm:

It's just another nail in the coffin Brian. The bit about mutilating bodies is what really triggers my bullshit detector.

So, the "you" was not me, personally?

So why address it to me?   ::)

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

Is the author a Muslim?

Either that or a spineless apologist. But of course as you have made it clear to us, the important thing here is not to critique the author's arguments by actually reading them - and working out whether it is a "pro suicide bombing article" or the exact opposite - the really important thing here is to smear him as a muslim and/or a spineless apologist.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

I am still waiting for an explanation of how suicide bombing violates Islam's rules on mutilating bodies.

Would you like a graphic?

A simple explanation will do Gandalf. What is the rule on mutilating bodies?

Brian, for future reference, when I use the word 'you' I don't necessarily mean you. Clear?

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

A simple explanation will do Gandalf. What is the rule on mutilating bodies? Brian, for future reference, when I use the word 'you' I don't necessarily mean you. Clear?

Don't you?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 1:29pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 3:47pm: because they don't like the accusatory tone of the question? So you are avoiding the question because allah will reward these suicidal-homicidal muslims? How can Islamic terror be stopped when Allah rewards muslims for being suicidal-homicidal? Does it?  How can a mythical being reward anything? You peddle only one side of the debate because it suits your purpose to portray the Islamist viewpoint as being that of mainstream Islam when in reality it isn't!

Tell your muslim friends allah is a mythical being and watch their reaction.. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

The 600 page Qadri fatwa was supposed to outlaw suicide attacks,why did Qadri need 600 pages for that? :D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Of course apologists like you ignore reality.

islamfuture.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/the-islamic-ruling-on-the-permissibility-of-self-sacrificial-operations-suicide-or-martyrdom

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ruling+on+martyrdom+operations

Suicide is haram,if you call it a martyrdom operation it becomes halal.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 11:42am:

Tell your muslim friends allah is a mythical being and watch their reaction.. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

I have and look, I'm still here.  Why? Because not all Muslims are extremists.  Something you seem unable to accept.


Quote:

The 600 page Qadri fatwa was supposed to outlaw suicide attacks,why did Qadri need 600 pages for that? :D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

'cause he wanted to make sure there was no wriggle room for the fanatics?   It's essentially a theocratic document, he set out to prove to the small point that he was right and the lunatics were wrong.   


Quote:

Of course apologists like you ignore reality.

Really?  You seem to live in something different to what the rest of us call reality!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

What is the rule on mutilating bodies?

Its forbidden.

Do you still need a "simple explanation" of the mutilating nature of suicide attacks?

qur'an 5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against allah and his messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

I suppose the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides is not mutilation, according to muslims and their fawning, bootlicking, spineless apologists? 

moses wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

qur'an 5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against allah and his messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; I suppose the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides is not mutilation, according to muslims and their fawning, bootlicking, spineless apologists?

Quote:

Last execution of a [Christian] heretic The last case of an execution by the Catholic Church was that of the schoolmaster Cayetano Ripoll, accused of deism by the waning Spanish Inquisition and hanged to death 26 July 1826 in Valencia after a two-year trial.[14] Eight years later in 1834, Spain, the last remaining government to still be providing the Catholic Church with the right to pronounce and effect capital punishment, formally withdrew that right from the Church. The era of such absolute Church authority had lasted some 1,449 years, from 385 AD through to 1834 of the 19th century. The number of people executed as heretics as sentenced by various church authorities is not known; however it most certainly numbers into the several thousands. Coincidentally, the first heretic executed had been a Spaniard Priscillian, the most notorious organization known for the persecution of heretics had been based in Spain, the Spanish Inquisition, and the last heretic executed had been a Spaniard Cayetano Ripoll. Thus, the era of the execution of heretics by the Catholic Church (or by any other major Christian denomination) had finally come to an end.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy_in_Christianity]

An interesting article on Heresy in Christianity in the 20th century too long to quote.  A very large number of trials and accusations occurred...   :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Quote:

Eight years later in 1834, Spain, the last remaining government to still be providing the Catholic Church with the right to pronounce and effect capital punishment, formally withdrew that right from the Church.

O.K. so the last government to strip the catholic church of the right to effect capital punishment was Spain in 1834 or 180 years ago.

Meanwhile today 2014 muslims have the doctrinal right to mutilate their fellow man.

If you as spineless apologist and your muslim masters, refuse to denigrate and ridicule the tenets of islam which give muslims the right to mutilate their fellow man today 2014, then I take it you support these human rights atrocities committed by muslims in the name of allah .

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2014 at 8:28am: What is the rule on mutilating bodies? Its forbidden. Do you still need a "simple explanation" of the mutilating nature of suicide attacks?

Yes please. Either that or continue tapdancing for us.

Does this mean Islam outlaws the use of explosives? Guns? Swords? How do you kill someone without mutilating their body?

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 7:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30th, 2014 at 2:05pm: freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2014 at 8:28am: What is the rule on mutilating bodies? Its forbidden. Do you still need a "simple explanation" of the mutilating nature of suicide attacks? Yes please. Either that or continue tapdancing for us. Does this mean Islam outlaws the use of explosives? Guns? Swords? How do you kill someone without mutilating their body?

Traditionally by poison or strangulation...with a silk scarf if you are lucky.

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 7:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30th, 2014 at 2:05pm: freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2014 at 8:28am: What is the rule on mutilating bodies? Its forbidden. Do you still need a "simple explanation" of the mutilating nature of suicide attacks? Yes please. Either that or continue tapdancing for us.

Sometimes a question is just a question, you see.

Lol freediver bought his blowfly back to the islam threads.