Tut tut righties



https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24641068/icac-illegal-donations-call-into-question-nsw-poll-results-corruption-inquiry-hears/

Quote:

In an explosive development, Mr Watson revealed Mr Owen's campaign manager and Newcastle lawyer Hugh Thomson had helped expose the corrupt motivation behind the campaign. ICAC was told Mr Thomson admitted to being involved in an illegal donations scheme, in exchange for protection from prosecution. Mr Watson also told the hearing that the former police minister Mike Gallacher knew about the illegal funding arrangements in Newcastle and in fact suggested some of them. He says the former energy minister Chris Hartcher also knew what was going on. Mr Watson told ICAC that the Government whip, Mr Cornwell, admitted Newcastle Mayor Jeff McCloy arranged a meeting in his car and handed over $10,000 in cash. He said while there was no evidence Mr Cornwell gave any preferences to the Mayor, his actions were unwise but that was due to inexperience.

Bloody hell.  A whistle blowing pfarking lawyer, covering his own arse of course!

Will be interesting if, among possible outcomes, there will be a voided election outcome, and a subsequent by-election.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/two-nsw-liberal-mps-stand-down-from-party-after-icac-hearing?CMP=soc_567

Another 2 Libs bite the dust.

#ICACTHISISLNP

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 3:10pm:

Another 2 Libs bite the dust.

how many's that then?


And why are the righties so quiet?????

Politics in NSW is a hotbed of corruption...so its no surprise that both Abbott and Hockey are big fish in the NSW political pond.

adelcrow wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 3:40pm:

Politics in NSW is a hotbed of corruption...so its no surprise that both Abbott and Hockey are big fish in the NSW political pond.

Why would anyone assume this sort of LNP corruption is quarantined within NSW?  They all talk and it would have been only human that a NSW dude would tell a Qld dude (or vice versa) "Hey, this is how we get around it."

Aussie wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 3:51pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 6th, 2014 at 3:40pm: Politics in NSW is a hotbed of corruption...so its no surprise that both Abbott and Hockey are big fish in the NSW political pond. Why would anyone assume this sort of LNP corruption is quarantined within NSW?  They all talk and it would have been only human that a NSW dude would tell a Qld dude (or vice versa) "Hey, this is how we get around it."

why do you think  Newmans cut the powers of the CMC?  ;)

More greedy politicians feeding from the trough to line their very own pockets, send ICAC nationwide or at the very least encompass all corruption matters in to this grossly expensive witch hunt of an RC and clean house from all the parties. Whilst it's especially sweet it's the LNP only a fool would think it isn't prevalent across the political spectrum.

We as voters should be united in demanding a full transparent investigation in to corruption nationwide and see the guilty bastards are locked up.

Like I've said before we have the most vile politicians in the world. They are all on performance enhancing drugs. They are nothing but putrid filth.

Bump  :)

Bump  :)

Wassup Suppository? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Like I keep saying we are at a low point in our polity with the quality of people in Parliaments Country and Party wide.

May the guilty and Criminal get caught and punished and be out of our lives and pockets forevermore.

Grendel wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 8:03pm:

Wassup Suppository? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Like I keep saying we are at a low point in our polity with the quality of people in Parliaments Country and Party wide. May the guilty and Criminal get caught and punished and be out of our lives and pockets forevermore.

Nice to see we're on the same page Grendel :)

Grendel wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 8:03pm:

Wassup Suppository? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Like I keep saying we are at a low point in our polity with the quality of people in Parliaments Country and Party wide. May the guilty and Criminal get caught and punished and be out of our lives and pockets forevermore.

Why aren't you vocally after Abbott, then?

Here's hoping all the corruption is brought into the open and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Probably a forlorn hope though. Especially with Newman in Queensland neutering that state's corruption body.

ICAC should be given a huge budget with the power to inestigate at all levels of government, right across the country. Leaving the states to legislate their own anti corruption bodies is itself corrupting the system.

Bam wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 8:38pm:

Here's hoping all the corruption is brought into the open and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Probably a forlorn hope though. Especially with Newman in Queensland neutering that state's corruption body.

Leaves out the records of Palmer Uniting Party supporting the LNP criminal activity all it can!

John Smith wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

ICAC should be given a huge budget with the power to inestigate at all levels of government, right across the country. Leaving the states to legislate their own anti corruption bodies is itself corrupting the system.

ICAC is a NSW body. What is really needed is a Federal body with the powers of ICAC.

and another bites the dust

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24665853/icac-nsw-mp-andrew-cornwell-quits-liberal-party-wont-seek-re-election-after-huge-mistake/

where will it end?

Aussie wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 8:17pm:

Grendel wrote on Aug 6th, 2014 at 8:03pm: Wassup Suppository? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Like I keep saying we are at a low point in our polity with the quality of people in Parliaments Country and Party wide. May the guilty and Criminal get caught and punished and be out of our lives and pockets forevermore. Why aren't you vocally after Abbott, then?

Only Progs do that, everyone else thinks Tony is doing swimmingly.

Stench of corruption wafts through Libs

Even Peta's husband appears to be in on the act  :-[ :-[ :-[
https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24665053/stench-of-corruption-wafts-through-libs/

Bam wrote on Aug 7^th, 2014 at 12:35am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 6th, 2014 at 8:46pm: ICAC should be given a huge budget with the power to inestigate at all levels of government, right across the country. Leaving the states to legislate their own anti corruption bodies is itself corrupting the system. ICAC is a NSW body. What is really needed is a Federal body with the powers of ICAC.

You will be pleased to hear that NSW greens are trying to add it to the NSW constitution.

Edit: ICAC #ThisIsLabor
https://twitter.com/TonyAbbottMHR/status/362469775730946048 :'(

Looks like we need to ban all political donations to parties and candidates, and introduce mandatory jail terms of at least 12 months for anyone that flouts the rules.

More liberal corruption revealed

The Liberals biggest talent which comes from many generations of practise  is in covering up their corruption - this would be barely the tip of the iceberg.

The Libs would no see this as a moral failure except in the area of getting caught which is inexcusable, they were all brought up better than that.

ICAC: Former Liberals Tim Owen and Andrew Cornwell resign from Parliament after corruption hearings

Quote:

Two former Government MPs have resigned from the New South Wales Parliament hours after one admitted lying to the state's corruption commission. The resignations of Newcastle MP Tim Owen and Charlestown MP Andrew Cornwell follow their admissions they accepted money from developers, who are not allowed to make political donations under NSW electoral laws. NSW Premier Mike Baird called on both to resign this afternoon after Mr Owen this morning admitted lying to the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), and Mr Cornwell earlier told the ICAC he accepted money from banned donors during the 2011 election campaign. Both men stood aside from the party last week after allegations of wrongdoing were heard by the commission. Mr Owen yesterday told the ICAC that developer Jeff McCloy handed him an envelope full of $100 notes during the 2011 state election campaign. Mr Owen told the commission he later put the envelope back into Mr McCloy's letterbox, but today he said that part of his evidence was false and he actually used the money for his campaign. Mr Baird said resigning from Parliament would be the honourable thing for Mr Owen and Mr Cornwell to do. "Ultimately it is up to them, but what I'm saying upon the evidence that we have seen and the comments that have been made, they should consider their positions as members of Parliament," Mr Baird said. Tim Owen and Jeff McCloy 'met to plan ICAC evidence' Under cross-examination by Ian Faulkner SC, who was representing Mr McCloy at the ICAC, Mr Owen admitted that he kept the $10,000 Mr McCloy gave him and "rolled it towards" his campaign. Mr Owen also said that, in recent months, he had several meetings with Mr McCloy, who is now the Lord Mayor of Newcastle. He said at one of the meetings, two days ago in Mr McCloy's office, the two men agreed they would both falsely tell the inquiry Mr Owen had returned the cash. "I was just concerned that he was going to get into trouble and I was going to get into trouble," he said. "He and I shook hands on that and then I left." Mr McCloy's barrister disputed that evidence and said his client had urged Mr Owen to tell the truth. "He [Mr McCloy] said to you, 'you're rolling the dice Tim, I'm telling you, you have to tell them the truth'," Mr Faulkner said. He put to Mr Owen that he had responded to Mr McCloy by saying: "I can't... my wife will divorce me [because] I've sworn on a stack of bibles that I didn't receive any money." Mr Owen said: "That's not how it happened". Mr Owen said he wanted to come clean after giving the evidence on Monday afternoon. "I wanted to retract that statement and say yesterday that he did actually give me money and that went to my campaign," Mr Owen said. Developers are banned from making political donations under NSW electoral laws.

Ya know, it is one level of corruption to set about to rort the electoral system, but it is taken to an entirely new level when there are bare faced pfphucking lies!  These people are political and personal scum, and I hope they rot in prison.


Quote:

TWO suspended Liberal Party MPs have resigned from NSW parliament following corruption allegations and a confession by one to lying to ICAC. The resignations of Newcastle MP Tim Owen and Charlestown MP Andrew Cornwell were announced to NSW parliament. NSW Premier Mike Baird had earlier called on the two MPs to quit following revelations at the Independent Commission against Corruption of illegal donations paid by property developers. The resignations could trigger by-elections in their Hunter Valley seats. Mr Owen today admitted lying to ICAC about returning $10,000 he received from property developer and Newcastle Mayor Jeff McCloy. Instead he says the money was used for his campaign, in breach of electoral funding laws. Mr Cornwell has also admitted accepting payments from property developers. Mr Owen and Mr Cornwell last week stepped down from the parliamentary LIberal Party following the allegations at ICAC. Both initially said they would quit politics at the next election. Mr Baird it was not up to him to decide the future of the MPs, who were no longer members of the Liberal Party. But the Premier said words could not explain how disappointed and angry he was at the behaviour exposed by ICAC. Mr Owen, under cross examination at ICAC, today admitted evidence he gave yesterday about a meeting with Mr McCloy was false. The penalty for giving false evidence to ICAC is up to five years jail. Questioned by counsel for Mr McCloy, Mr Owen also admitted that he had met with Mr McCloy last Sunday to discuss what he would tell the commission.  That is....conspire to lie! Mr Owen yesterday told ICAC he met Mr McCloy in Hunter Street Newcastle in December 2010 and was given an envelope full of cash. He said he thought about it and decided that he should return the money.

Is this true?

Libs who'd of thought!

Lets hope they and the dodgy Labor ones all end up in gaol

And the asshole property developers as well.

Bam wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:57pm:

Looks like we need to ban all political donations to parties and candidates, and introduce mandatory jail terms of at least 12 months for anyone that flouts the rules.

I'd be in favour of that ... make all election campaigns publicly funded and remove the need for private donations altogether. Anyone caught paying or accepting bribe money gets treated like the criminal they are.

Redmond Neck wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 4:04pm:

Is this true? Libs who'd of thought! Lets hope they and the dodgy Labor ones all end up in gaol And the asshole property developers as well.

It is true alright.  Two LNP Pollies may well not have had too much personal grief about the electoral rorts, but TODAY, they have been caught red-handed not only conspiring to lie to the Commission, but actually lying to the Commision.  Go to Jail you arse-holes!

It's time that all political parties were subjected to a root and branch epuration. Should any of our alleged politicians get tired of the perks of office a career awaits in organised crime.

salad in wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

It's time that all political parties were subjected to a root and branch epuration. Should any of our alleged politicians get tired of the perks of office a career awaits in organised crime.

many of them are well suited for a life in organised crime.

John Smith wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 7:29pm:

salad in wrote on Aug 12th, 2014 at 7:27pm: It's time that all political parties were subjected to a root and branch epuration. Should any of our alleged politicians get tired of the perks of office a career awaits in organised crime. many of them are well suited for a life in organised crime.

French and Italians......huh?

Doesnt seem like this topic interests the Rightards!

;D ;D

Redmond Neck wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 10:23am:

Doesnt seem like this topic interests the Rightards! ;D ;D

they were so keen to start dozens of threads on ICAC when labor was under the screws, now suddenly ICAC doesn't even solicit a response? funny that! ;)

;D ;D ;D ;D

As usual Laughing Boy, the only stench you are sniffing is because your nose is too near your own arse.....

http://s25.postimg.org/ufzayxjb3/image.jpg

George_Orhell wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

As usual Laughing Boy, the only stench you are sniffing is because your nose is too near your own arse..... http://s25.postimg.org/ufzayxjb3/image.jpg

i think your nose is near my arse ohell ... you seem to like sniffing around my posterior

John Smith wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 1:12pm:

George_Orhell wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 1:00pm: As usual Laughing Boy, the only stench you are sniffing is because your nose is too near your own arse..... http://s25.postimg.org/ufzayxjb3/image.jpg i think your nose is near my arse ohell ... you seem to like sniffing around my posterior

Tut tut..........now don't be a dick.......head......Laughing Boy....

George_Orhell wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 1:12pm: George_Orhell wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 1:00pm: As usual Laughing Boy, the only stench you are sniffing is because your nose is too near your own arse..... http://s25.postimg.org/ufzayxjb3/image.jpg i think your nose is near my arse ohell ... you seem to like sniffing around my posterior Tut tut..........now don't be a dick.......head......Laughing Boy....

I'll leave that honour to you ... d1ckhead.

Dnarever wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

More liberal corruption revealed The Liberals biggest talent which comes from many generations of practise  is in covering up their corruption - this would be barely the tip of the iceberg. The Libs would not see this as a moral failure except in the area of getting caught which is inexcusable, they were all brought up better than that.

It is really not that difficult to tell right from wrong in politics.  To tell what you should and can accept and what is simply a bribe.

It again goes to show the paucity of good talent we have in our current polity.

The following is part of a policy brief from ON just before their implosion back in 2001.

Policy Development
Draft Policy – Electoral Reform.

Currently in Australia, the Federal electoral system, is biased in favour of the current 2 major parties.  In case you haven’t heard it the catch-phrase is “two party preferred”.  Our system has an imbalance where; process, funding, donations, preferences, media, etc, is weighted in their favour.

In order to make the system more democratic and more representative of the voting wishes of the Australian people, the following ideas for change to the electoral system are proposed.

1.  Fixed term elections.
2.  Optional preferential voting.
3.  Non-compulsory voting.
4.  Direct democracy (via the introduction of Citizen initiated Referenda).

Fixed term elections.

     The introduction of this measure will ensure that the Parliament runs it’s full term and is not subject to the whims of political opportunists.  No longer will people be left wondering till the last minute when the next election is going to be held.  N.S.W. for example already has fixed term elections.  It is time that federal elections followed this example.

Optional preferential voting.

     The introduction of this measure ensures that a vote goes where the voter originally intended.  No longer will votes end up going to a party or candidate that it was originally intended, NOT to go to.  No longer will parties or individuals doing backroom deals have control of where the votes of electors end up.  From now on only the voter controls where his/her vote will go.  A voter will have a choice to use the preferential system or not.  Votes will be passed on only when the voter intends for this to occur.  Optional preferential voting is already in place in N.S.W.

Non-compulsory voting.

     The question to ask those who oppose this proposition is; “Who won’t vote?”  It should be the democratic right of every individual to withhold their support if there is no party or candidate that they feel represents their concerns.

     Some in the “compulsory voting” camp say that voting isn’t compulsory already.  Strictly speaking this is true.  We have a system in which you only have to have your name crossed off the electoral roll on Election Day.  The question then would be; “Then why not make it official?” 

Why should someone be forced to do something they have no wish to do?  Why fine someone for not being able to make it to a polling booth?  Why fine someone the system has failed to represent or force them to vote for someone whom does not represent their concerns?  In many cases this form of compulsion only advocates “Tribal Voting”, which distorts the electoral process and the outcome.

end pt 1.

pt 2.


Direct democracy (via the introduction of Citizen initiated Referenda).

Direct Democracy or CIR is a system that allows all members of a society to have a direct say in government decision-making. Representative Democracy only allows individuals or parties the right to decide for the rest of us.  How often have we seen governments make decisions we have not been happy with?  How many laws or treaties have they introduced or been signatory to, that we do not agree with?

Past issues that may have been decided by CIR are things such as; UN Treaties, the GST, our involvement in the Iraq war and Afghanistan.  CIR works in other democracies and allows the public a greater say in issues that concern them, issues that in Australia, governments alone decide on at present.

This policy gives the people of Australia, the opportunity to directly address issues of concern which are at present, too often, left unaddressed or are foisted upon us by a government unconcerned about our opinion.  This policy will not hinder our present Westminster system of Representative government.  Rather, it will enhance our system of democracy by ensuring real issues can be debated and addressed by everyone.

One Nation and the Australian Democrats both had CIR as policy.  They believed in not only upholding the right, but the need for all Australians to effectively raise debate on issues of concern and have a mechanism to democratically pursue those issues to produce an outcome in legislative change.

Unlike other parties they believed that with power comes the responsibility to be inclusive not exclusive.  How often have we heard parties say that populism is a bad thing or that there has been a failure of leadership?  Isn’t it about time they understood that sometimes we disagree with them.  That sometimes they get it very wrong and we aren’t lemmings and no amount of badgering or “political leadership” will change our minds.

The proposal could be implemented as follows:

A Sponsoring committee of 10 people individually certified as electors before a justice of the Peace will collect a minimum of 500 signatories validated from the electoral roll by the AEC as electors in support of the proposal.

The Committee will submit these and the proposal to the Office of Parliamentary Counsel* which will assess if the proposal is able to be given legal effect.  The Sponsoring Committee then has 12 months to gather the signatures of at least 3% of electors on the roll from more than 50% of electorates.

If the AEC is then satisfied that the proposal has been supported by the required number of valid electors, the Parliamentary Counsel will then commence the drafting of the appropriate Bill.  The Bill will then be presented to the Parliament, which will have the opportunity to pass the Bill or make recommendations for improvement.

If the Bill is not passed by the Parliament it will be automatically referred for referendum at the same time as the next election.

If the appropriately collected signature equals at least 10% of electors, the proposal must be submitted to a referendum within 3 months. When the proposed law is approved by a majority of electors voting at the referendum and in more than 50% of electorates, the proposal is presented to the Government for Assent.  Following Assent, the Bill becomes Law.


Citizen Initiated Referenda is a relatively simple, inexpensive, and a democratically effective method of ensuring that the laws under which people live are approved by the people themselves.

*PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL ACT 1970 – SECT 3
Functions of the office of parliamentary Counsel
The functions of the Office of Parliamentary Counsel are:
a)      The drafting of proposed laws for introduction into either House of the Parliament;
b)      The drafting of amendments of proposed laws that are being considered by either house of parliament;
c)      Functions incidental to the functions referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b)


Other issues associated with Electoral reform.

     Truth in advertising – after having witnessed yet another election where claim and counter-claim were diametrically opposed it is time that political parties were forced to tell the truth.  It is time that parties and people were penalised by the legal system for statements that amount to; fraud, slander, and libel.  An election campaign should not be an excuse for people to get away with dishonesty or worse.  The Australian people deserve to be presented with the facts and the truth and not be swayed or fooled, by lies and political bias.

     Proof of identity – (Photo id) - should be presented when enrolling and when people are being checked off the electoral roll at all elections.  This will help prevent fraud and misrepresentation.

     Computerisation - a secure electronic system will ensure that results will be available much earlier to the Australian public.  Weeks of waiting for a result will be a thing of the past.

end pt 2.

pt 3.


Media Responsibility - all media (written and electronic) should be legally bound to provide free advertising and equal opportunity to all recognised political parties.  (Within reason). This will then provide a balanced and fair representation to the public and avoid claims of partisanship, political bias and guard against the continuation or creation of a political duopoly.  Smaller parties should be allowed to present their representatives and platforms to the public on an equal basis to the major parties. All media licence agreements should provide for this during election campaign periods.

     Donations – lobby groups and corporations, should be excluded from making donations to political parties or individual candidates.

end...

These were the concerns of ON members in NSW in 2001 and before.

1/Watering Australia, 2/Multiculturalism, 3/Globalisation, 4/Electoral Reform, 5/Health, 6/Banking, 7/Salinity, 8/Infrastructure Development, 9/Tax Reform, 10/Education, 11/Environment, 12/Defence, 13/Genetically Modified Products, 14/Constitutional Preamble.   

As you can see Electoral Reform was in the top 4, regardless of what the media and other parties would have you believe about the party.

I shall read all that Grendel when I am sober!

Dont be nasty back to me but I am more interested in whats on Ebay atm...Mmm not a good move after 6 beers...OMG!

Cheers A  Redneck ( Not the one you think is the good one ...Sorry)

:D

All politics in NSW is corrupt and its no wonder that Abbott and Hockey are chief power brokers within the NSW Liberals.

adelcrow wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

All politics in NSW is corrupt and its no wonder that Abbott and Hockey are chief power brokers within the NSW Liberals.

Do you need to toss in idiotic one liners every day ad nauseum Crowbait?  Your credibility cannot get any lower.  Just cash your ALP/Green cheque and move on.

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

It is really not that difficult to tell right from wrong in politics.  To tell what you should and can accept and what is simply a bribe. It again goes to show the paucity of good talent we have in our current polity.

Basic psychology tells us if those around us are all breaking the rules, most people will as well.

This applies to many, many things.

Kytro wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:48pm:

Grendel wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 6:22pm: It is really not that difficult to tell right from wrong in politics.  To tell what you should and can accept and what is simply a bribe. It again goes to show the paucity of good talent we have in our current polity. Basic psychology tells us if those around us are all breaking the rules, most people will as well. This applies to many, many things.

Not how I was brought up...  nor my generation.

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

pt 3. Media Responsibility - all media (written and electronic) should be legally bound to provide free advertising and equal opportunity to all recognised political parties.  (Within reason). This will then provide a balanced and fair representation to the public and avoid claims of partisanship, political bias and guard against the continuation or creation of a political duopoly.  Smaller parties should be allowed to present their representatives and platforms to the public on an equal basis to the major parties. All media licence agreements should provide for this during election campaign periods.      Donations – lobby groups and corporations, should be excluded from making donations to political parties or individual candidates. end...

Mmmm Read parts1 2 and 3.

All very interesting but I think doing a bit of Ebaying last night was more interesting!

Do agree with the highlighted bit above and CIR need them bioth and a national ICAC

Cheers .....Hic!...Burp!

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

The following is part of a policy brief from ON just before their implosion back in 2001.

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

Quote: Donations – lobby groups and corporations, should be excluded from making donations to political parties or individual candidates.

One Nation are not my favourite political party - I have even put them last at an election - but this idea has merit. I have even stated essentially the same thing in a post recently.

Part of the problem with the way that politics is run in this country is that we tend to think in terms of political parties rather than ideas. As a consequence, we are compelled to vote for package deals rather than individual ideas. It's why governments crap on about "mandates" when there is really no such thing. It is also why the current Government are having difficulties in the Senate.

This is why the following also has merit (edited for brevity):

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Quote: Direct democracy (via the introduction of Citizen initiated Referenda). Direct Democracy or CIR is a system that allows all members of a society to have a direct say in government decision-making. Representative Democracy only allows individuals or parties the right to decide for the rest of us.

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Quote: Citizen Initiated Referenda is a relatively simple, inexpensive, and a democratically effective method of ensuring that the laws under which people live are approved by the people themselves.

This would break up the package deals that dominate political discussion and give greater emphasis to policy rather than personality and politics.

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 10:43pm:

Kytro wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 8:48pm: Grendel wrote on Aug 13th, 2014 at 6:22pm: It is really not that difficult to tell right from wrong in politics.  To tell what you should and can accept and what is simply a bribe. It again goes to show the paucity of good talent we have in our current polity. Basic psychology tells us if those around us are all breaking the rules, most people will as well. This applies to many, many things. Not how I was brought up...  nor my generation.

Evidence exists to the contrary, this is basic human nature stuff. I'm not saying that everyone acts this way, just that people wouldn't otherwise do.

Take a look at things such as the bystander effect and the Milgram experiments for examples of how people's behaviour can change.

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

Fixed term elections.      The introduction of this measure will ensure that the Parliament runs it’s full term and is not subject to the whims of political opportunists.  No longer will people be left wondering till the last minute when the next election is going to be held.  N.S.W. for example already has fixed term elections.  It is time that federal elections followed this example.

Not entirely opposed to this, though it does have some drawbacks such as having to live with a terrible government for a longer period of time.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

Optional preferential voting.      The introduction of this measure ensures that a vote goes where the voter originally intended.  No longer will votes end up going to a party or candidate that it was originally intended, NOT to go to.  No longer will parties or individuals doing backroom deals have control of where the votes of electors end up.  From now on only the voter controls where his/her vote will go.  A voter will have a choice to use the preferential system or not.  Votes will be passed on only when the voter intends for this to occur.  Optional preferential voting is already in place in N.S.W.

Disagree. This just hands mroe power the big parties at the expense of the smaller parties. I agree reform is needed, but not having a preference flow at all means less say, not more. The system should be simplified, and preferences should be specified by the voter parties.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

Non-compulsory voting.      The question to ask those who oppose this proposition is; “Who won’t vote?”  It should be the democratic right of every individual to withhold their support if there is no party or candidate that they feel represents their concerns.

The problem isn't these people at all, but apathy. This gives people who are interested more say, not exactly democratic.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Direct democracy (via the introduction of Citizen initiated Referenda). Direct Democracy or CIR is a system that allows all members of a society to have a direct say in government decision-making. Representative Democracy only allows individuals or parties the right to decide for the rest of us.  How often have we seen governments make decisions we have not been happy with?  How many laws or treaties have they introduced or been signatory to, that we do not agree with?

I'm torn on this. In some cases people might get rid of bad law, but it also allows the mob to make changes when driven by a current event or emotion. Media would have increased influence.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Truth in advertising – after having witnessed yet another election where claim and counter-claim were diametrically opposed it is time that political parties were forced to tell the truth.  It is time that parties and people were penalised by the legal system for statements that amount to; fraud, slander, and libel.  An election campaign should not be an excuse for people to get away with dishonesty or worse.  The Australian people deserve to be presented with the facts and the truth and not be swayed or fooled, by lies and political bias.

Agreed. There should be penalties for misleading people, perhaps the system could be formalised somewhat with a registry of election promises that must cited whenever advertising is used.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Proof of identity – (Photo id) - should be presented when enrolling and when people are being checked off the electoral roll at all elections.  This will help prevent fraud and misrepresentation.

I'm not convinced this a significant enough problem to warrant the exclusion of legitimate voters it could create.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Computerisation - a secure electronic system will ensure that results will be available much earlier to the Australian public.  Weeks of waiting for a result will be a thing of the past.

Agreed, but the system should print the ballot as a backup.


Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Media Responsibility - all media (written and electronic) should be legally bound to provide free advertising and equal opportunity to all recognised political parties.  (Within reason). This will then provide a balanced and fair representation to the public and avoid claims of partisanship, political bias and guard against the continuation or creation of a political duopoly.  Smaller parties should be allowed to present their representatives and platforms to the public on an equal basis to the major parties. All media licence agreements should provide for this during election campaign periods.

Agreed - ish. The funding for election advertising should be public funds only, and larger parties shouldn't get more money just because they have more voters.

Parties should have specific advertising allowed, and debates could even be a series like a league.

The Libs ICAC is gonna be the death of them  ;D

Nine Liberals implicated so far.

MP Garry Edwards stands down as Icac claims ninth Liberal party scalp

Quote:

The New South Wales Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac) has claimed another Liberal party scalp. The member for Swansea, Garry Edwards, has stood aside from the party after being named at a corruption hearing. He becomes the ninth NSW Liberal MP to be sidelined amid revelations at the Icac. “I look forward to an early opportunity to clear my name,” Edwards said in a statement. “In the meantime, I have decided to stand aside from the parliamentary Liberal party. I have informed the premier of my decision and he has accepted it.” Earlier on Thursday the Newcastle property baron Jeff McCloy told the Icac that he gave about $1,500 to Edwards. The now mayor of Newcastle said he handed out so much cash to MPs that he felt like a walking ATM. Tim Owen and Andrew Cornwell quit the NSW parliament this week after corruption watchdog revelations that they were given $10,000 each in the lead-up to the 2011 election. Developers are barred from making political donations in NSW. Giving evidence, McCloy said he handed over cash to Edwards as well. “Apart from Mr Owen and Mr Cornwell, which other politicians did you give cash money to?” counsel assisting, Geoffrey Watson, asked. “The guy from Swansea came to see me, Garry – he rang me – it was [on a] a Saturday. He came round to my home; whatever was in my wallet, 1,500 bucks, raffle tickets or something. I gave him a few bob.” McCloy appeared relaxed in the witness box, quipping: “They all come to see me for money; I feel like a walking ATM some days.” He denied giving money to the former NSW government ministers Michael Gallacher and Chris Hartcher, but said that he had a niggling suspicion he had given to the family of another Hunter politician, the former environment minister Robyn Parker. “Robyn Parker’s interesting because I can’t piece it together,” he said. “I’ve had my staff look at all the local politicians, going through all the cheques … It was only recently when they looked at Robyn and we couldn’t find anything. “I have a nagging thing in the back of my head about some CDs for her husband. Was that so? I am not sure.” Parker was dumped from cabinet in the premier’s April reshuffle. The inquiry continues.

Bam wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 8:49pm:

MP Garry Edwards stands down as Icac claims ninth Liberal party scalp Quote: The New South Wales Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac) has claimed another Liberal party scalp. The member for Swansea, Garry Edwards, has stood aside from the party after being named at a corruption hearing. He becomes the ninth NSW Liberal MP to be sidelined amid revelations at the Icac. “I look forward to an early opportunity to clear my name,” Edwards said in a statement. “In the meantime, I have decided to stand aside from the parliamentary Liberal party. I have informed the premier of my decision and he has accepted it.” Earlier on Thursday the Newcastle property baron Jeff McCloy told the Icac that he gave about $1,500 to Edwards. The now mayor of Newcastle said he handed out so much cash to MPs that he felt like a walking ATM. Tim Owen and Andrew Cornwell quit the NSW parliament this week after corruption watchdog revelations that they were given $10,000 each in the lead-up to the 2011 election. Developers are barred from making political donations in NSW. Giving evidence, McCloy said he handed over cash to Edwards as well. “Apart from Mr Owen and Mr Cornwell, which other politicians did you give cash money to?” counsel assisting, Geoffrey Watson, asked. “The guy from Swansea came to see me, Garry – he rang me – it was [on a] a Saturday. He came round to my home; whatever was in my wallet, 1,500 bucks, raffle tickets or something. I gave him a few bob.” McCloy appeared relaxed in the witness box, quipping: “They all come to see me for money; I feel like a walking ATM some days.” He denied giving money to the former NSW government ministers Michael Gallacher and Chris Hartcher, but said that he had a niggling suspicion he had given to the family of another Hunter politician, the former environment minister Robyn Parker. “Robyn Parker’s interesting because I can’t piece it together,” he said. “I’ve had my staff look at all the local politicians, going through all the cheques … It was only recently when they looked at Robyn and we couldn’t find anything. “I have a nagging thing in the back of my head about some CDs for her husband. Was that so? I am not sure.” Parker was dumped from cabinet in the premier’s April reshuffle. The inquiry continues.

ICAC is like a bowling ball. Falling like tenpins. Just one more for a strike, it's only a spare atm. ;D

NSW corruption scandal moves closer to federal Liberal Party

Quote:

CHRIS UHLMANN, PRESENTER: The Independent Commission Against Corruption is cutting a swathe through conservative ranks in New South Wales. Nine MPs have been tainted by a corruption scandal, with another Liberal exiled to the crossbench today amid more revelations about politicians taking cash from property developers. It comes just days after two of the party's rising stars quit, admitting they each took a bundle of cash from a banned donor. And as Adam Harvey reports, the inquiry's edging ever closer to the federal Liberal Party. ADAM HARVEY, REPORTER: For much of the 20th Century, Newcastle was Steel City, the nation's blue-collar capital. The furnaces at BHP's Newcastle steelworks fired up the national economy. When the BHP plant closed, there was great opportunity for developers with the right connections. JOHN HAYES, NEWCASTLE RESIDENTS GROUP: There is serious money to be made in Newcastle, in a changing city, but what many in the community are concerned about is that development at any cost is not necessarily the best way to go. ADAM HARVEY: Ahead of the 2011 election, the people to know were the NSW Liberals, certain of victory against a tired Labor government, tarnished by corruption and scandal. The Liberals preselected two of its rising stars for the Newcastle region. TIM OWEN, LIBERAL CANDIDATE FOR NEWCASTLE (Liberal Party advertisement): Having been a senior commander in the Australian Defence Force and with no political agenda, I thought it's time to fight a different battle. Hi, I'm Tim Owen. With my proven leadership, I will take the decisive action our city needs. SEAN NICHOLLS, STATE POLITICAL EDITOR, SYDNEY MORNING HERALD: Impeccable credentials for particularly a state political candidate and one which the NSW Liberal Party was absolutely overjoyed to have. ADAM HARVEY: Andrew Cornwell was a successful local vet. SEAN NICHOLLS: Mr Cornwell was drafted into the party as some very much-needed new blood as a cleanskin. ADAM HARVEY: At the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption this week, the Liberal cleanskins admitted taking cash from property developers. Developers have been banned from making political donations in NSW since 2009. GEOFFREY WATSON, ICAC COUNSEL ASSISTING: Now experience teaches that in any field of human endeavour, wherever there is regulation, there will be those who attempt to subvert it. ADAM HARVEY: One of the men with the brown bags full of cash was property developer Jeff McCloy. He's now the Mayor of Newcastle. He gave $10,000 to Cornwell in the front seat of McCloy's Bentley and another $10,000 to Owen. JOHN HAYES: They just had a good, shiny face and nobody knew what was going on in the back room. JOHN WARHURST, SCHOOL OF POLITICS, ANU: It makes you wonder whether this way of doing things is now so common that newcomers fall into the trap of thinking, "Well everyone does it and I'll do it as well," even though it must be contrary to everything they've stood for in their previous lives. ADAM HARVEY: Cornwell and Owen have quit politics, forcing by-elections just months ahead of next year's NSW election. Today, McCloy's told ICAC he gave $1,500 to another Liberal politician from the Newcastle area, Gary Edwards.

(continued)

Quote:

JEFF MCCLOY, PROPERTY DEVELOPER AND MAYOR OF NEWCASTLE (male voiceover): "They all came to see me for money. I feel like a walking ATM sometimes." ADAM HARVEY: Was it your intention to throw Gary Edwards under a bus today? Edwards denies the allegations, but this afternoon, Premier Mike Baird announced that Edwards had stood aside from the parliamentary Liberal Party. MIKE BAIRD, NSW PREMIER: I do accept the member's resignation from the parliamentary Liberal Party, but what he deserves is due process at the ICAC. ADAM HARVEY: It means ICAC has now claimed nine Liberal scalps, including that of Barry O'Farrell, who resigned as Premier after he denied receiving a $3,000 bottle of wine from a lobbyist. SEAN NICHOLLS: The damage that is being wrought by the evidence on the - not only the NSW Government, but also the NSW Liberal Party and potentially the federal Liberals is absolutely enormous. JOHN WARHURST: The culture of politics, personal and institutional, has now fallen to a very low level indeed, and what is remarkable I think is that many of the individuals probably don't see themselves as engaging in particularly corrupt behaviour. ADAM HARVEY: This 2009 letter to all Liberal MPs revealed by ICAC helps explain why so many Liberal politicians ignored the ban on taking cash from developers. LIBERAL PARTY, NSW DIVISION (male voiceover): "This bill is designed to cause maximum damage to our party and our efforts to fund an effective campaign against Labor at the next election." ADAM HARVEY: It's co-signed by the party's then finance director, Arthur Sinodinos. SEAN NICHOLLS: The ban was brought in as one of the state's strongest ever anti-corruption measures. So it's pretty much morally indefensible for a party, either at a state or federal level, to try and circumvent that ban. ADAM HARVEY: Senator Arthur Sinodinos has stepped aside as Assistant Federal Treasurer while ICAC continues its investigations. He'll appear again in the coming weeks as the commission moves closer to the federal Liberal Party. It'll investigate the Canberra-based Free Enterprise Foundation, which took developer donations and moved them on to the NSW Liberal Party. ICAC alleges that that was effectively laundering dirty cash. GEOFFREY WATSON: There is evidence that the use of the Free Enterprise Foundation in this fashion was known at high levels in the Liberal Party. It seems that the federal party was willing to allow itself to be used in that way. ADAM HARVEY: Among those expected to face questions about their knowledge of the Free Enterprise Foundation, the Liberal Party's federal director, Brian Loughnane. The party will argue that it acted legally. In Newcastle, the damage has been done. JOHN HAYES: Why do those blokes take it on and go down the gurgler? I can't explain that. They'll have to explain it, they'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives, but it doesn't do us any good. JOHN WARHURST: Because ultimately, if the political process and the electoral process is crook, then the community at large is unable to put their trust in those who are seeking to govern them and the whole system becomes rotten. CHRIS UHLMANN: Adam Harvey reporting.

Treasurer Joe Hockey's chief electorate fund-raiser John Hart called before ICAC donations inquiry
Blood in the water for the Liberal party...

Yup - next week - the Hounds Of Hell In ICAC are closing in.....  I love watching this.... not that the other side is any better, but I love to see this happen to these pompous and self-righteous, self-interested bastards.

As an old Newcastle boy, HTF did a property developer get to be Lord Mayor?  TF happened to my people up there?  All still dumb from the pollution or something?  He goes around handing out bags of money - and he's still the Lord Mayor! 

WTF?

You NEVER vote scum like that into any office where they can influence any deal that might suit them.

NEVER!  And they should be barred from even standing due to conflicts of interest!

You all getting an idea of how this country runs yet?

(Grappler Holmes and The Hounds of The ICACvilles?)

Dr Watson:-  "Holmes!  I would appreciate it if you could be a little more clear when you are explaining what you are doing!"

Holmes:  "Elementary, my dear Watson.. I'm simply sifting the sands to find the hidden bags casty off from the handing over of the money!"

"Money?  What money?"

"Simple enough Watson!  These tracks in the macadam show clearly that the Lord Mayor's hackney stopped here.. and here.. and here!  and at each stop a paper bag changed hands and the contents disappeared into a long long pocket!  All we need to do is find the bags cast off and we can count the number of bags, arrive at a conclusion, and also see how close those bags are to various addresses!"

Ooooooo...wooooooh!

"God Lord, Holmes!  What  is THAT?"

"That, my dear Watson, is the Hounds of The ICACvilles!  They are notoriously hungry and are seeking a feeding.  Nothing to fear.. they are gentle dogs unless they smell... corrupt money in a pocket... and it is they who we will be using to catch our man.. or men, Watson!"

NSW Premier Mike Baird apologises to Hunter residents over ICAC donations scandal

Quote:

New South Wales Premier Mike Baird says he is deeply sorry for the way the Liberal Party "let the people of Newcastle down", after a corruption commission was told of MPs taking cash from prohibited donors. Newcastle MP Tim Owen and Charlestown MP Andrew Cornwell resigned after admitting they had taken undeclared money from donors, including Newcastle Lord Mayor Jeff McCloy. Mr McCloy told the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) he had also given money to Swansea MP Garry Edwards, prompting Mr Edwards to stand aside from the Party. Developers are banned from making political donations under NSW electoral laws. Mr McCloy told ICAC he was "not a property developer" because he did not lodge development applications. In a letter sent to a local newspaper and linked from his Twitter account, Mr Baird said: "I am deeply sorry for the way the Liberal Party has let down the people of Newcastle. What hurts me most of all is that the actions of a few have tarnished the wonderful achievements of the Liberals and Nationals in the Hunter Valley since 2011." Mr Baird said it was his "solemn promise" to deliver every local project his Government had committed to. "I will visit the region repeatedly – between now and the election, and beyond – to reinforce my regret at the behaviour of some of our former MPs, and to recommit to the transformative projects we are funding," he wrote. "While I lead this state, we will never again let the people of Newcastle down."

So numerous Liberals are implicated in corruption, and Premier Baird thinks an apology is all that is needed?

The rubbish apology is not going to stop the smackdown at the ballot box that the Liberals are going to get at the forthcoming by-elections.

Liberal party will not contest Hunter byelections as 'an act of atonement'

Quote:

The Liberal party will not contest the seats of two MPs who resigned from New South Wales parliament last week after revelations they accepted illegal donations from a property developer. In what the NSW party director, Tony Nutt, described as “an act of atonement”, the party has announced it will not field candidates in the byelections for Charlestown and Newcastle, the seats of former Liberal members Andrew Cornwell and Tim Owen. On Saturday the premier, Mike Baird, apologised to the people of the Hunter Valley in an open letter. ‘‘The revelations have disgusted the honest, law-abiding parliamentarians, elected office bearers, members, donors and supporters of the Liberal party,’’ Nutt said in a public apology to the people of NSW. “The recent revelations ... require more than this apology or remedial action to prevent past problems in the future. Accordingly, as an explicit act of atonement, the Liberal party will not contest the Newcastle and Charlestown byelections. “The Liberal party organisation is now putting its house in order, so that at the next general election it can in good conscience ask the people of NSW to again give us their trust and complete the task they gave us to do.” A date is yet to be set for the byelections and on Sunday morning Baird did not rule out contesting the seats at next year’s state election. The deputy opposition leader, Linda Burney, said the decision was “astounding” and not a real act of atonement. “It would have been a show of ‘we’re going to regain the trust of the people of Newcastle’,” she said. “A notion of some act of atonement, I’m afraid, leaves me fairly cynical.” In his public apology, published in the Newcastle Herald on Saturday, Baird took aim at Labor saying they took the people of the Hunter Valley for granted. “I am deeply sorry for the way the Liberal party has let down the people of Newcastle,” he wrote. “What hurts me most of all is that the actions of a few have tarnished the wonderful achievements of the Liberals and Nationals in the Hunter Valley since 2011.” Baird listed the state-funded projects taking place in the area and said the government remained committed to them all. “I will visit the region repeatedly – between now and the election, and beyond – to reinforce my regret at the behaviour of some of our former MPs, and to recommit to the transformative projects we are funding,” he said. “We will keep delivering the projects the city and its people need and deserve. And above all, while I lead this state, we will never again let the people of Newcastle down.” Owen accepted a $10,000 donation from property developer and now Newcastle mayor Jeff McCloy in the lead-up to the 2011 state election and admitted to lying to Icac about it. Political donations from property developers were banned at the time. Owen originally told the corruption commission he had returned some of the money to McCloy but then admitted it was rolled into his campaign . Cornwell admitted to receiving $10,000 in a brown paper bag from McCloy before the 2011 election and using $10,000 from the sham sale of a Rex Newell painting to a property developer to pay his payroll tax bill. Cornwell has been called to appear at Icac again this week. Icac hearings have led to the resignation of Liberal premier, Barry O’Farrell, and forced six state MPs, including two sitting ministers, to move the crossbenches this year.

Winning margins for Liberals in 2011:
Charleston - 9.9% margin
Newcastle - 2.6% margin

Looks like the Liberals are conceding these elections. They were on the cards to get record byelection swings against them and they clearly don't want to set an unwanted record. Going from a 2PP of 60% to 30% would have been embarrassing.

Better save the baseball bats for next year, eh!

Smart move......no low 'mark' for the pundits to drool over.

I trust the Liberal Leadership at the Top,
not the Liberal Party down the ranks.
Hence why Barry O,
was never to be seen during his term,
let alone - ever again.

It's quite obvious that Australia is best represented
by the Liberal (Leader) at the Federal Level.
The PM serves the USA, the G-G serves the UK
...the UK serves the USA anyway.

The ALP seems stronger amongst its 'lower ranking'
and would be better suited to the State Level and even lower. If they like to 'spend money', then let them spend it at a Domestic level, while the Libs take it from the International Scene.

...obviously, this Setup, suits Australia mostly.
...obviously - this Setup does not 'suit the International Community' which, via the UK - setup Australia for this very reason.

LOOKS LIKE MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY TO ME ;)

The voters of NSW got rid of Labor because of corruption, but Labor's worst didn't
go close to plumbing the depths this lot have reached.

Tearing upthe rail lines in Newcastle, for example, positively REEKS of corruption, and
should be halted immediately as it is opposed by just about everyone, but they were
simply ignored.

Nah, the fact that the N'castle mayor is both a Lib and a developer (and has been
named at ICAC) couldn't have any bearing on the decision.

Could it?

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

How the Romans allegedly dealt with Carthage.
1. Kill all the men.
2. Sell the women and children into slavery.
3. Loot and pillage.
4. Burn the city to the ground.
5. Sow the fields with salt so nothing can grow there again.

Brings to mind a way of ending this developer corruption.
1. Sack all the associated politicians who are tainted by association.
2. Cancel all projects involving these developers.
3. Resume the land without compensation under proceeds of crime legislation.
4. Raze the projects whether completed or not.
5. Pass laws to make sure this sort of corruption can never happen again.

Bam wrote on Aug 17^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:

How the Romans allegedly dealt with Carthage. 1. Kill all the men. 2. Sell the women and children into slavery. 3. Loot and pillage. 4. Burn the city to the ground. 5. Sow the fields with salt so nothing can grow there again. Brings to mind a way of ending this developer corruption. 1. Sack all the associated politicians who are tainted by association. 2. Cancel all projects involving these developers. 3. Resume the land without compensation under proceeds of crime legislation. 4. Raze the projects whether completed or not. 5. Pass laws to make sure this sort of corruption can never happen again.

Harsh, but sort of like these humanitarian efforts of medieval times, wot?

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10580253_10152632113484483_6018149248329646688_n.jpg

it should be another interesting week at ICAC ....'

Apparently they are going to find out just how much the federal liberal party was involved. The claim is that the federal liberal party laundered the donations from developers and forwarded the money to NSW libs in an effort to circumvent NSW bans on donations from developers.

I'd be surprised if Hockey and Petas husband aren't implicated.

Abbott's getting desperate ...

Icac: Tony Abbott says 'problem' was Labor banning developer donations

;D ;D

and another libs joins the collection of corrupt libs  :D :D :D

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/liberal-mp-bart-bassett-joins-crossbench-as-icac-investigates-whether-he-was-influenced-by-nathan-tinkler-company-20140827-108uxb.html

John Smith wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 4:09pm:

and another libs joins the collection of corrupt libs  :D :D :D http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/liberal-mp-bart-bassett-joins-crossbench-as-icac-investigates-whether-he-was-influenced-by-nathan-tinkler-company-20140827-108uxb.html

Time for a cigar Belgian.... Oh no! it's another one of ours!

---

Vic wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 5:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 4:09pm: and another libs joins the collection of corrupt libs  :D :D :D http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/liberal-mp-bart-bassett-joins-crossbench-as-icac-investigates-whether-he-was-influenced-by-nathan-tinkler-company-20140827-108uxb.html Time for a cigar Belgian.... Oh no! it's another one of ours!

is that 10 now?

at the rate they are going, labor won't have to win the next election, the libs will have no one left and labor will get it by default

Bring in a national ICAC

Seems liberal brown paper bag fundraising isn't limited to NSW (not that I ever thought it was).

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24842138/ex-magistrate-peter-maley-offered-information-for-10k-political-donation-to-clp-nt-labor/

It seems that ICAC may actually be the huge waste of money that some have previously suggested.

I say that though for different reasons (I think) to others.

Firstly, it seems that an awful lot of people are not surprised that significant corruption has been occurring. In other words, ICAC actually isn't telling us anything we already did not know. Therefore, it further seems that the only thing that ICAC is effectively doing is exposing the corruption that most already anticipated was already occurring. Consequently, once those stupid enough to get caught in the net are exposed, it will be back to business as usual... Minus a few expendable scalps of course...

It seems to me that if we in fact need ICACs... What we really need is a total change of how we do our politics. Review the constitution, completely redesign the "system".

However, given the entrenched corruptions and entitlement mentality built into our corporate and political models it is hardly likely that all the ICAC investigations under the sun are not going to, in fact, generate the very real changes that this country absolutely needs to be making.

I guess at least it provides some level of entertainments for pundits on forums...

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

once those stupid enough to get caught in the net are exposed, it will be back to business as usual

not so sure about that .. the more dodgy poli's that get busted the more the next guy will think about it the next time he is offered a brown bag full of cash. ICAC is a good thing, it should be nationalised.

What politics needs and what will help ICAC is a few more of these rorters in jail .... I'm still not sure why they can be found to have acted corruptly, but not be charged ...  is it just more 'scratch my back and i'll scratch yours' by the polis ? ... ALL cases of corruption by politicians should be investigated by police and maximum penalties should apply against EVERY poli found to have acted corruptly.

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

once those stupid enough to get caught in the net are exposed, it will be back to business as usual... Minus a few expendable scalps of course...

The problem isn't that ICAC is a waste of money. It's that the penalties for being caught are far too light, and do not act as a sufficient deterrent. As long as the reward outweighs the risk, it remains profitable.

So remove all the profit.

Jail terms for corruption should have a minimum of 12 months - this would automatically disqualify a Federal parliamentarian under section 44 of the Constitution. The penalties should also include a lifetime disqualification from running for public office at any level, a lifetime disqualification from being a director of any company or organisation, and forfeiture of assets under proceeds of crime legislation.

In other words, lock them up, seize their loot, and make sure that they can never be in a position to do it ever again.

Of course, this is wishful thinking - it is unlikely that the lawmakers will change the laws to make themselves more accountable.

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

It seems that ICAC may actually be the huge waste of money that some have previously suggested. I say that though for different reasons (I think) to others. Firstly, it seems that an awful lot of people are not surprised that significant corruption has been occurring. In other words, ICAC actually isn't telling us anything we already did not know. Therefore, it further seems that the only thing that ICAC is effectively doing is exposing the corruption that most already anticipated was already occurring.

WOW ... because we all know corruption exists, ICAC is unnecessary?  We dont need to know who, how much, how offen?

We know there are rapes and murders, so we dont need police?


The most stupid thread I have seen in a long long time.

A few observations, for consideration -
1) The Proceeds of Crime Act 2002
http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/proceeds-of-crime.aspx#the-proceeds-of-crime-act-2002
2) Apply above to Federal, State & Local Councils.
3) Ensure, as far as is possible, that those appointed to this task force & particularly those who will run it, are direct descendants of God??? 
4) Implement OZ-wide legislation to make all elections Publicly funded & all donations to elections illegal, from Business, Unions & individuals!

John Smith wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 3:34pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 6th, 2014 at 3:10pm: Another 2 Libs bite the dust. how many's that then? And why are the righties so quiet?????

Nine Liberal party members have resigned or stood down from the party, NINE where is armpit! She should be outraged, instead she's hiding under her rock quivering in fear.

Crikey at this rate the only party left in NSW will be the Greens  :D

The way to reduce corruption is to reduce corporate influence, but that's somewhat difficult.

It would mean a level of transparency not yet seen and require public servants including politicians to give up a great deal more privacy.

John Smith wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 2:33pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29th, 2014 at 1:53pm: once those stupid enough to get caught in the net are exposed, it will be back to business as usual not so sure about that .. the more dodgy poli's that get busted the more the next guy will think about it the next time he is offered a brown bag full of cash. ICAC is a good thing, it should be nationalised. What politics needs and what will help ICAC is a few more of these rorters in jail .... I'm still not sure why they can be found to have acted corruptly, but not be charged ...  is it just more 'scratch my back and i'll scratch yours' by the polis ? ... ALL cases of corruption by politicians should be investigated by police and maximum penalties should apply against EVERY poli found to have acted corruptly.

I would site the back to back exposure of several "rorters" at the commencement of the current Governments term in office as a clear and blatant example of getting back to business as usual. The corruption is wide spread and on all sides of politics - yes I am sure the supporters of minor parties will be up in arms at this assertion - bummer.

Our current "politics" is rife with corruption - ergo, exposing it further is rather futile, changing the playing field however....

Bam wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 4:26pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29th, 2014 at 1:53pm: once those stupid enough to get caught in the net are exposed, it will be back to business as usual... Minus a few expendable scalps of course... The problem isn't that ICAC is a waste of money. It's that the penalties for being caught are far too light, and do not act as a sufficient deterrent. As long as the reward outweighs the risk, it remains profitable. So remove all the profit. Jail terms for corruption should have a minimum of 12 months - this would automatically disqualify a Federal parliamentarian under section 44 of the Constitution. The penalties should also include a lifetime disqualification from running for public office at any level, a lifetime disqualification from being a director of any company or organisation, and forfeiture of assets under proceeds of crime legislation. In other words, lock them up, seize their loot, and make sure that they can never be in a position to do it ever again. Of course, this is wishful thinking - it is unlikely that the lawmakers will change the laws to make themselves more accountable.

A possible step in the right direction however, as you say...

"Of course, this is wishful thinking - it is unlikely that the lawmakers will change the laws to make themselves more accountable." - Hence the current process is a bit of a waste of time and money... Without the necessary measures in place to actually address the problem, then exposing the problem further (the one everyone knows exists) is pretty futile.

Cliff48 wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 5:08pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29th, 2014 at 1:53pm: It seems that ICAC may actually be the huge waste of money that some have previously suggested. I say that though for different reasons (I think) to others. Firstly, it seems that an awful lot of people are not surprised that significant corruption has been occurring. In other words, ICAC actually isn't telling us anything we already did not know. Therefore, it further seems that the only thing that ICAC is effectively doing is exposing the corruption that most already anticipated was already occurring. WOW ... because we all know corruption exists, ICAC is unnecessary?  We dont need to know who, how much, how offen? We know there are rapes and murders, so we dont need police? The most stupid thread I have seen in a long long time.

Firstly I did not say useless, I said a waste of money... Further, it is a waste of money because NOTHING is in place once the corruption is exposed.

Using your examples of rape and murder for example, upon investigation, once a perpetrator is "exposed", their is a further process in place whereby they face trial and a Gaol sentence. Ironically, it does not really change much, we still have people being raped and murdered... Just an aside observation of course - perhaps that system needs to change too...

However, and quite tellingly, I also did not say do nothing, admittedly I did not elaborate on what the "generate the very real changes that this country absolutely needs to be making." (Yeah I know, you didn't quote that bit of my post... Did you read that far or not understand the meaning of this little gem?). I did not elaborate on that because I gave people credit to have enough intelligence to consider their own options regarding what some of those changes might look like.

So, since I most clearly did not say do NOTHING I would have to, respectfully, contend that the overly dramatic use of the term, "The most stupid thread I have seen in a long long time." is a wee bit harsh, considering it would appear that you either did not read my entire post, or failed to comprehend a fairly basic statement.

Tell me this, do you contend that ICAC as it currently stands will wipe out corruption in politics?

Oh, and when you say "The most stupid thread I have seen in a long long time." do you mean the entire thread
or just my individual post that may after all change some of the context of my post...

Kytro wrote on Aug 30^th, 2014 at 1:15am:

The way to reduce corruption is to reduce corporate influence, but that's somewhat difficult. It would mean a level of transparency not yet seen and require public servants including politicians to give up a great deal more privacy.

A potential step to reduce this (at the very least) would be to minimise the access to power. Citizen initiated Referendum, Direct democracy etc. Put the power in the hands of the people rather than the politicians, public servants and corporate interests.

Make no mistake though, as the current power imbalance and abuse is, no amount of ICACery will stop, minimise or significantly impact on political and corporate corruption.

Further, if we (the people) endeavour to call for significant change, watch the proverbial gloves come off very quickly indeed from those with vested interests in the current status quo (their trough in other words...)

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 30^th, 2014 at 8:44am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 29th, 2014 at 2:33pm: Phemanderac wrote on Aug 29th, 2014 at 1:53pm: once those stupid enough to get caught in the net are exposed, it will be back to business as usual not so sure about that .. the more dodgy poli's that get busted the more the next guy will think about it the next time he is offered a brown bag full of cash. ICAC is a good thing, it should be nationalised. What politics needs and what will help ICAC is a few more of these rorters in jail .... I'm still not sure why they can be found to have acted corruptly, but not be charged ...  is it just more 'scratch my back and i'll scratch yours' by the polis ? ... ALL cases of corruption by politicians should be investigated by police and maximum penalties should apply against EVERY poli found to have acted corruptly. I would site the back to back exposure of several "rorters" at the commencement of the current Governments term in office as a clear and blatant example of getting back to business as usual. The corruption is wide spread and on all sides of politics - yes I am sure the supporters of minor parties will be up in arms at this assertion - bummer. Our current "politics" is rife with corruption - ergo, exposing it further is rather futile, changing the playing field however....

yes but all the corruption you are finding out about now predated the ICAC enquiry ... you've yet to see if the kiddies are behaving now that ICAC has shone a light on the subject.

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 30^th, 2014 at 9:01am:

A potential step to reduce this (at the very least) would be to minimise the access to power. Citizen initiated Referendum, Direct democracy etc. Put the power in the hands of the people rather than the politicians, public servants and corporate interests.

I'm always wary of handing the masses more power. I think recalls are reasonable, but beyond that I'd want very strict controls in place.


Phemanderac wrote on Aug 30^th, 2014 at 9:01am:

Make no mistake though, as the current power imbalance and abuse is, no amount of ICACery will stop, minimise or significantly impact on political and corporate corruption. Further, if we (the people) endeavour to call for significant change, watch the proverbial gloves come off very quickly indeed from those with vested interests in the current status quo (their trough in other words...)

I agree, there needs to be a federal system that operates in an open manner and have access to any details they need in relation to public servants.

I doubt that anything that interferes with the powerful will get any traction though. Even though in the long term it's bad for them as well, they are simply too short-sighted.

Abbott 'absolutely confident' federal Libs won't be dragged into donations scandal (SMH, excerpt)

Quote:

Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he is "absolutely confident" the federal Liberal Party will not be dragged into the donations scandal engulfing the NSW Liberal Party, despite Speaker Bronwyn Bishop being contacted by the Independent Commission Against Corruption. The commission has been examining the activities of the federal Liberal Party-aligned Free Enterprise Foundation, which is alleged to have been used to "launder" illegal donations and channel them back to the NSW branch of the party.

Bam wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:14am:

Abbott 'absolutely confident' federal Libs won't be dragged into donations scandal (SMH, excerpt) Quote: Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he is "absolutely confident" the federal Liberal Party will not be dragged into the donations scandal engulfing the NSW Liberal Party, despite Speaker Bronwyn Bishop being contacted by the Independent Commission Against Corruption. The commission has been examining the activities of the federal Liberal Party-aligned Free Enterprise Foundation, which is alleged to have been used to "launder" illegal donations and channel them back to the NSW branch of the party.

Didn't Tony say the same thing about Ofarrel. How much egg will Tony have on his face when not if, they start uncovering the shifty back handers, be especially beautiful after his RC witch hunt, sinodinus was innocent as well wasn't he, just taking a break is he. This is beautiful

#Icacthisislnp #Icacthisistony

Bam wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:14am:

Abbott 'absolutely confident' federal Libs won't be dragged into donations scandal (SMH, excerpt) Quote: Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he is "absolutely confident" the federal Liberal Party will not be dragged into the donations scandal engulfing the NSW Liberal Party, despite Speaker Bronwyn Bishop being contacted by the Independent Commission Against Corruption. The commission has been examining the activities of the federal Liberal Party-aligned Free Enterprise Foundation, which is alleged to have been used to "launder" illegal donations and channel them back to the NSW branch of the party.

Oh, really, Mr Abbott?

ICAC: Liberal senator Arthur Sinodinos set to front NSW anti-corruption hearing

Quote:

Influential Liberal Party senator Arthur Sinodinos is due to front an anti-corruption hearing in Sydney again today as part of an ongoing investigation into allegations of business donations and political favours. Senator Sinodinos stood aside from his role as the assistant treasurer in March, saying he did not want the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) probe to be a "distraction" for the Federal Government. ICAC was told last week that Senator Sinodinos was present during a Liberal Party meeting that discussed how to deal with a New South Wales ban on political donations from property developers. The party's finance committee considered the idea of funnelling donations through the Canberra-based Free Enterprise Foundation as a way around the ban. Liberal Party fundraiser Paul Nicolaou told the ICAC hearing he put forward the idea but then left it with the committee members. "I advised the [finance] committee of the Free Enterprise Foundation and what it does," he said. "I assumed that the finance committee would have then taken legal advice to ensure that what we would do with the Free Enterprise Foundation was above board." Mr Nicolaou said Senator Sinodinos was at that meeting as well as the then-Liberal Party state director in New South Wales, Mark Neeham. Mr Neeham resigned from the role last year and said he was seeking "new challenges and a new role" after 10 years with the Liberal Party. Senator Sinodinos appeared before ICAC in April to discuss his involvement in a company called Australian Water Holdings (AWH). He was a director of AWH from October 2008 until November 2011, which included a 12-month stint as the company's chairman. ICAC is looking into allegations that between 2004 and 2012, AWH falsely billed Sydney Water for expenses on an infrastructure project and used the money for executive salaries and political donations. The company had links to disgraced former NSW Labor MP Eddie Obeid.

ICAC: Port Stephens MP Craig Baumann admits not declaring electoral donations in 2007

Quote:

Liberal MP Craig Baumann has admitted to the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) that he did not declare electoral donations during his first tilt at state politics in 2007. The Member for Port Stephens is giving evidence at the inquiry, into allegations of business donations and political favours, following claims he facilitated a payment from development firm Buildev to a campaign staffer. Counsel assisting the inquiry Geoffrey Watson SC asked Mr Baumann about whether he received donations from developers Hilton Grugeon and Jeff McCloy, who was also the former Lord Mayor of Newcastle. Today's evidence focused on the subdivision and rezoning of the Wallarong Urban Release Area. Mr Watson put to Mr Baumann that both developers stood to make a lot of money from the rezoning of this land. "Yes," Mr Baumann responded. The Port Stephens MP was also repeatedly asked who paid for his 2007 and 2011 election campaigns. Mr Baumann told ICAC that Hunter Ready Mix Concrete, which was owned by Hilton Grugeon, made the largest donation to his 2007 election campaign. When asked if he declared that money, Mr Baumann replied, "I inadvertently made a dishonest declaration and I apologise". Mr Baumann has also denied he created a sham invoice to disguise money being donated to his 2007 election campaign by Jeff McCloy. Secret donations? 'It does look like that,' says McCloy Mr McCloy then briefly returned to the witness box to explain whether he paid funds into Mr Baumann's 2007 election campaign and if he can remember why it was done. "No I can't remember," he told the inquiry. Mr McCloy said Mr Baumann wanted funds for his election campaign. He told the hearing the reason none of his companies declared the payment was because he did not like putting his name against any political donations and that it was a way of getting around that. When asked whether it looked like he was making secret donations to a powerful politician in the Port Stephens area, Mr McCloy said, "It does look like that." Meanwhile, influential Liberal Party Senator Arthur Sinodinos is due to front ICAC again today as part of an ongoing investigation into allegations of business donations and political favours. Senator Sinodinos stood aside from his role as the assistant treasurer in March, saying he did not want the ICAC probe to be a "distraction" for the Federal Government. ICAC Commissioner Megan Latham said this morning that the watchdog was now looking at whether Mr Baumann and his accountant made false declarations to conceal benefits exchanged with developers Hilton Grugeon and Jeff McCloy. Mr McCloy is also the former mayor of Newcastle. Mr Baumann, Mr Grugeon and Mr McCloy were due to give evidence at the commission today. ICAC was told last week that Senator Sinodinos was present during a Liberal Party meeting that discussed how to deal with a New South Wales ban on political donations from property developers. The party's finance committee considered the idea of funnelling donations through the Canberra-based Free Enterprise Foundation as a way around the ban. Liberal Party fundraiser Paul Nicolaou told the ICAC hearing he put forward the idea but then left it with the committee members. "I advised the [finance] committee of the Free Enterprise Foundation and what it does," he said. "I assumed that the finance committee would have then taken legal advice to ensure that what we would do with the Free Enterprise Foundation was above board." Mr Nicolaou said Senator Sinodinos was at that meeting as well as the then-Liberal Party state director in New South Wales, Mark Neeham. Mr Neeham resigned from the role last year and said he was seeking "new challenges and a new role" after 10 years with the Liberal Party. Senator Sinodinos appeared before ICAC in April to discuss his involvement in a company called Australian Water Holdings (AWH). He was a director of AWH from October 2008 until November 2011, which included a 12-month stint as the company's chairman. ICAC is looking into allegations that between 2004 and 2012, AWH falsely billed Sydney Water for expenses on an infrastructure project and used the money for executive salaries and political donations. The company had links to disgraced former NSW Labor MP Eddie Obeid.

I love it when the truth comes out...... hands in the cookie jar.. just can't help themselves, I'm afraid.

Bam wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 12:47pm:

ICAC: Port Stephens MP Craig Baumann admits not declaring electoral donations in 2007 Quote: Liberal MP Craig Baumann has admitted to the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) that he did not declare electoral donations during his first tilt at state politics in 2007. The Member for Port Stephens is giving evidence at the inquiry, into allegations of business donations and political favours, following claims he facilitated a payment from development firm Buildev to a campaign staffer. Counsel assisting the inquiry Geoffrey Watson SC asked Mr Baumann about whether he received donations from developers Hilton Grugeon and Jeff McCloy, who was also the former Lord Mayor of Newcastle. Today's evidence focused on the subdivision and rezoning of the Wallarong Urban Release Area. Mr Watson put to Mr Baumann that both developers stood to make a lot of money from the rezoning of this land. "Yes," Mr Baumann responded. The Port Stephens MP was also repeatedly asked who paid for his 2007 and 2011 election campaigns. Mr Baumann told ICAC that Hunter Ready Mix Concrete, which was owned by Hilton Grugeon, made the largest donation to his 2007 election campaign. When asked if he declared that money, Mr Baumann replied, "I inadvertently made a dishonest declaration and I apologise". Mr Baumann has also denied he created a sham invoice to disguise money being donated to his 2007 election campaign by Jeff McCloy. Secret donations? 'It does look like that,' says McCloy Mr McCloy then briefly returned to the witness box to explain whether he paid funds into Mr Baumann's 2007 election campaign and if he can remember why it was done. "No I can't remember," he told the inquiry. Mr McCloy said Mr Baumann wanted funds for his election campaign. He told the hearing the reason none of his companies declared the payment was because he did not like putting his name against any political donations and that it was a way of getting around that. When asked whether it looked like he was making secret donations to a powerful politician in the Port Stephens area, Mr McCloy said, "It does look like that." Meanwhile, influential Liberal Party Senator Arthur Sinodinos is due to front ICAC again today as part of an ongoing investigation into allegations of business donations and political favours. Senator Sinodinos stood aside from his role as the assistant treasurer in March, saying he did not want the ICAC probe to be a "distraction" for the Federal Government. ICAC Commissioner Megan Latham said this morning that the watchdog was now looking at whether Mr Baumann and his accountant made false declarations to conceal benefits exchanged with developers Hilton Grugeon and Jeff McCloy. Mr McCloy is also the former mayor of Newcastle. Mr Baumann, Mr Grugeon and Mr McCloy were due to give evidence at the commission today. ICAC was told last week that Senator Sinodinos was present during a Liberal Party meeting that discussed how to deal with a New South Wales ban on political donations from property developers. The party's finance committee considered the idea of funnelling donations through the Canberra-based Free Enterprise Foundation as a way around the ban. Liberal Party fundraiser Paul Nicolaou told the ICAC hearing he put forward the idea but then left it with the committee members. "I advised the [finance] committee of the Free Enterprise Foundation and what it does," he said. "I assumed that the finance committee would have then taken legal advice to ensure that what we would do with the Free Enterprise Foundation was above board." Mr Nicolaou said Senator Sinodinos was at that meeting as well as the then-Liberal Party state director in New South Wales, Mark Neeham. Mr Neeham resigned from the role last year and said he was seeking "new challenges and a new role" after 10 years with the Liberal Party. Senator Sinodinos appeared before ICAC in April to discuss his involvement in a company called Australian Water Holdings (AWH). He was a director of AWH from October 2008 until November 2011, which included a 12-month stint as the company's chairman. ICAC is looking into allegations that between 2004 and 2012, AWH falsely billed Sydney Water for expenses on an infrastructure project and used the money for executive salaries and political donations. The company had links to disgraced former NSW Labor MP Eddie Obeid.

Is that 10 now?    They can have their own bowling lane!

will the libs even run at the next state election? they won't have anyone left will they?

Vic wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

Is that 10 now?    They can have their own bowling lane!

Ten so far ... more to come.

Born To Rort.

Another one bites the dust

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25262620/chris-hartcher-announces-retirement-plans-from-nsw-parliament-amid-icac-corruption-inquiry/

the list so far:

ANDREW STONER (Nationals MP for Oxley)

CHRIS HARTCHER (Liberal MP for Terrigal)

CHRIS SPENCE (Liberal MP for The Entrance)

DARREN WEBBER (Liberal MP for Wyong)

DON PAGE (Nationals MP for Ballina)

GREG SMITH (Liberal MP for Epping)

GEORGE SOURIS (Nationals MP for Upper Hunter)

TIM OWEN (ex-Liberal MP for Newcastle)

ANDREW CORNWELL (ex-Liberal MP for Charlestown)

BARRY O'FARRELL (Liberal MP for Ku-ring-gai)

MIKE GALLACHER (upper house Liberal MP)

BART BASSETT (Liberal MP for Londonderry)

CRAIG BAUMANN (Liberal MP for Port Stephens)



And this is only the ones we know off :-[ :-[

what a sorry state of affairs Australian politics has become

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25266997/nsw-coalition-mps-on-their-way-out/

Foundation 51: Email suggests $200,000 spent on CLP election campaign

A newly-released email from the director of a company under investigation by the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) appears to confirm allegations that the company spent money on an election campaign that was never declared as a political donation

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25277906/foundation-51-email-suggests-200-000-spent-on-clp-election-campaign/

When Labor gets back in Federally, they would have to set up a Royal Commission into this Coalition corruption.

Bam wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 9:03pm:

When Labor gets back in Federally, they would have to set up a Royal Commission into this Coalition corruption.

I still say we need a federal ICAC, with all the powers it needs and the ability to prosecute. Only then will these dodgy deals become the exception rather than the norm

John Smith wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 9:07pm:

Bam wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:03pm: When Labor gets back in Federally, they would have to set up a Royal Commission into this Coalition corruption. I still say we need a federal ICAC, with all the powers it needs and the ability to prosecute. Only then will these dodgy deals become the exception rather than the norm

That's another option, though the use of numerous slush funds by the Liberals is perhaps in need of special scrutiny. Besides, the Liberals have opened Pandora's Box with Royal Commissions into previous governments for political purposes, and they can expect to receive the same treatment in their turn.

Bam wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 9:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:07pm: Bam wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:03pm: When Labor gets back in Federally, they would have to set up a Royal Commission into this Coalition corruption. I still say we need a federal ICAC, with all the powers it needs and the ability to prosecute. Only then will these dodgy deals become the exception rather than the norm That's another option, though the use of numerous slush funds by the Liberals is perhaps in need of special scrutiny. Besides, the Liberals have opened Pandora's Box with Royal Commissions into previous governments for political purposes, and they can expect to receive the same treatment in their turn.

an RC into political donations? Great idea ...





notice none of the righties seem willing to comment on any of the corruption? why is that? they were so concerned about it when Obeid was in the limelight :D :D

can't let this run offg the page, Cods and longy might miss it

John Smith wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 6:56pm:

can't let this run offg the page, Cods and longy might miss it

I'm pretty sure most of the righties have given it a miss long ago. It seems they don't want to know just how many Liberal party MPs (plus a few others from elsewhere within the Coalition) have been implicated in dubious misconduct with donations and slush funds.

Three months until ICAC hands down its findings. It's not going to be good news, no wonder Hartcher is bailing.

John Smith wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 6:56pm:

can't let this run offg the page, Cods and longy might miss it

Unlikely you will hear much from them on corruption matters, very vocal when RC announced, crickets since ICAC came along, imagine what it's going to be like when ICAC in some capacity goes national encompassing federal, don't know about you but boy o boy am i licking my lips in anticipation.

Its time wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2014 at 6:56pm: can't let this run offg the page, Cods and longy might miss it Unlikely you will hear much from them on corruption matters, very vocal when RC announced, crickets since ICAC came along, imagine what it's going to be like when ICAC in some capacity goes national encompassing federal, don't know about you but boy o boy am i licking my lips in anticipation.

I hope they do and I'll vote for the first politician to suggest it, regardless of party. We have to much corruption in politics, on all sides, and it needs to be stamped out

What are they hiding?

A wide-ranging inquiry into political donations promised by the Northern Territory government has been dumped for one narrower in focus, much to the outrage of the opposition.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25324204/nt-political-donation-inquiry-rescinded/

Ian Macdonald to face charges

good to see someone facing the music. They need to set an example of them all to make others think twice before partaking of the 'easy money'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-to-be-prosecuted-over-mine-licence/5905540

I'll say it again, We need a federal ICAC

maybe they can then uncover the real reason the libs were opposed to the mining tax

John Smith wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 10:32am:

Ian Macdonald to face charges good to see someone facing the music. They need to set an example of them all to make others think twice before partaking of the 'easy money' http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-to-be-prosecuted-over-mine-licence/5905540 I'll say it again, We need a federal ICAC maybe they can then uncover the real reason the libs were opposed to the mining tax

And uncover the real reason for other asinine Liberal party policies, such as this selection:
* "Direct Action" pork barrelling
* "Coal first" madness when most other countries are ending reliance on coal-fired power
* Gutting the NBN for a far inferior model
* Exempting fossil fuel subsides from budget cuts
* Exempting the health care rebate from budget cuts despite its growing much faster than inflation
* Cutting the ABC's and SBS's budgets then pretending it's not a cut

Bam wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 10:32am: Ian Macdonald to face charges good to see someone facing the music. They need to set an example of them all to make others think twice before partaking of the 'easy money' http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-to-be-prosecuted-over-mine-licence/5905540 I'll say it again, We need a federal ICAC maybe they can then uncover the real reason the libs were opposed to the mining tax And uncover the real reason for other asinine Liberal party policies, such as this selection: * "Direct Action" pork barrelling * "Coal first" madness when most other countries are ending reliance on coal-fired power * Gutting the NBN for a far inferior model * Exempting fossil fuel subsides from budget cuts * Exempting the health care rebate from budget cuts despite its growing much faster than inflation * Cutting the ABC's and SBS's budgets then pretending it's not a cut

It has to come, too many unanswered questions!

All the rightards were quick to jump onto the bandwagon on the thread with Obeid facing charges, and yet,  not a single comment from the comrades on the right about MacDonald?

Surely corruption is corruption and you're opposed to it, no matter which party they belong too?

How many LNP is it now in NSW?
10/12??

Anyone got an Australia-wide figure.

I'll welcome Labor numbers as well....

;)

John Smith wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:40pm:

All the rightards were quick to jump onto the bandwagon on the thread with Obeid facing charges, and yet,  not a single comment from the comrades on the right about MacDonald? Surely corruption is corruption and you're opposed to it, no matter which party they belong too?

http://acelebrationofwomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ostrich.jpg
I think they're all hiding ...

John Smith wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:40pm:

Surely corruption is corruption and you're opposed to it, no matter which party they belong too?

Sort of, but the corruption that happens with the other team is always worse than that done by your own. If need be, quote some other completely unrelated event and compare it to that. If all else fails, deny that the offender on your team was ever actually a team player at all.

Whoops.....

---

Whoops, again....
Wrong bloke.
Bugger.

;D

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:40pm: Surely corruption is corruption and you're opposed to it, no matter which party they belong too? Sort of, but the corruption that happens with the other team is always worse than that done by your own. If need be, quote some other completely unrelated event and compare it to that. If all else fails, deny that the offender on your team was ever actually a team player at all.

Or the most common strategy of the Liberal fanbois ... ignore it completely.

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:44pm:

How many LNP is it now in NSW? 10/12?? Anyone got an Australia-wide figure. I'll welcome Labor numbers as well.... ;)

I don't think you'll get Australia wide figures .. Newman has made Qld's crime and misconduct committee a toothless tiger with no powers to invesatigate anything, WA had in six months failed to appoint a new leader (so much so that even the honest lib MP's are whinging about it  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-19/liberal-mp-accuses-wa-govt-of-dragging-its-feet-ccc-role/5903920 ) to WA's anti corruption watchdog ....

It seems they've all got something to hide

the power to appoint people or set terms of reference on investigations should not come from politicians,

you may as well as the wolf to guard the sheep :D :D :D