So Obama has abandoned his "no new wars" position.

When the air strikes fail to turn the situation around, what then?

Is this the start of the slippery slope?

Just bombing somewhere isn't exactly a "war".

Otherwise, the US led air campaign against Libyan govt forces a few years ago would have also been a war. It wasn't.

Is it only the great satan delivering food to those stranded and starving in the mountains? 

Not yet...


Quote:

Mr Obama said American warplanes would attack Islamic State "terrorist convoys" if they tried to advance on Erbil. "In recent days these terrorists have continued to move across Iraq and have neared the city of Erbil where American diplomats and civilians serve at our consulate and American military personnel advise Iraqi forces," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-08/obama-authorises-airstrikes-in-iraq/5657202

The Kurdish region in Iraq understandably represents a red line for the US. Presumably ISIS won't be stupid enough to cross that line - and the air strikes will be on hold - for now.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 2:42pm:

Not yet... Quote: Mr Obama said American warplanes would attack Islamic State "terrorist convoys" if they tried to advance on Erbil. "In recent days these terrorists have continued to move across Iraq and have neared the city of Erbil where American diplomats and civilians serve at our consulate and American military personnel advise Iraqi forces," he said. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-08/obama-authorises-airstrikes-in-iraq/5657202 The Kurdish region in Iraq understandably represents a red line for the US. Presumably ISIS won't be stupid enough to cross that line - and the air strikes will be on hold - for now.

Cross the line!!!

Executing 100's of unarmed young men isn't "crossing a line".

Well i'll be......

One thing we know about cowardly muslims is that they’ll stay as close to civilian populations as they can.

Because ISIS have a take no prisoners policy, ground combat is completely out of the question so I think air strikes are a fantastic idea !

I was against the invasion of Iraq because I was told that a power vacuum would lead to this kind of instability and it has.
ISIS are anti life and as such they deserve none, they want to take over the world and turn it into a hardline islamic state, they are a virus if not controlled will spread and infect the rest of the middle east.

The way I see it is that the rest of the world should declare open season on ISIS and use the ISIS held territory as target practice for all their latest weaponry. This would certainly put the heat on them. Remember it was with the aid of US air strikes that the Northern Alliance was able top turn the tide on the Taliban.
With out air support the Iraqi army and Shia militias will have a hell of a time trying to stop their advance.

fractalign wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Because ISIS have a take no prisoners policy, ground combat is completely out of the question so I think air strikes are a fantastic idea ! I was against the invasion of Iraq because I was told that a power vacuum would lead to this kind of instability and it has. ISIS are anti life and as such they deserve none, they want to take over the world and turn it into a hardline islamic state, they are a virus if not controlled will spread and infect the rest of the middle east. The way I see it is that the rest of the world should declare open season on ISIS and use the ISIS held territory as target practice for all their latest weaponry. This would certainly put the heat on them. Remember it was with the aid of US air strikes that the Northern Alliance was able top turn the tide on the Taliban. With out air support the Iraqi army and Shia militias will have a hell of a time trying to stop their advance.

I was against, and marched against, war in Iraq. Our reps did it anyway. We broke it, we need to help fix it, we need to kill off ISIS, and if that meant troops, I think I would agree this time. We owe it to the Iraqis we went in to "save" the first time, to save them from the likes if ISIS. The war against "Al Qaeda" has brought out the real nuts, now is the time to do something. :'(

Setanta wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:43pm:

We broke it, we need to help fix it, we need to kill off ISIS, and if that meant troops, I think I would agree this time.

You don't think we've screwed things up enough already?

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

So Obama has abandoned his "no new wars" position. When the air strikes fail to turn the situation around, what then? Is this the start of the slippery slope?

the world has gone mad...no talking anymore its bombs and more bombs...

Islam is the problem... sorry all those Jew haters out there who think every one is the problem except muslims...

seems to me everywhere you look where there is War there is Islam...

usually with the backing of Russia... who also wants to control the world..

maybe they will divide it up until one decides they want it all.. ... who knows.. all I hope is we  the free world are strong enough to fight it...

although I have my doubts...

for everyone who says lets stand up to these barbarians..

we have  another who says NO.. its none of our business or we should never have gone there in the first place...

if we turn a blind eye it will all go away..

we dont stick together do we?and yes the Russians and the Muslims know that.....and they use that.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:57pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 8:43pm: We broke it, we need to help fix it, we need to kill off ISIS, and if that meant troops, I think I would agree this time. You don't think we've screwed things up enough already?

thats the trouble it isnt US that screwing it up....

we are happy to let them get on with their lives.. the trouble is they dont want too.. they allow the few to ruin everything...the insurgents are paid assassins.. how many religions so you know that encourage their followers to strap bombs to their chests and walk into a group and detonate it...regardless of who they are killing?????

cods wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 9:05pm:

how many religions so you know that encourage their followers to strap bombs to their chests and walk into a group and detonate it...regardless of who they are killing?????

none.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:57pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 8:43pm: We broke it, we need to help fix it, we need to kill off ISIS, and if that meant troops, I think I would agree this time. You don't think we've screwed things up enough already?

I take your point with humility. Yes we have, but, should we let what is happening to continue? I think not. We owe something to the Iraqis for our screw-up, if that means just defending them from ISIS, I'm willing to bet it'll be better than not acting, and not just in Iraq in the long run.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:57pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 8:43pm: We broke it, we need to help fix it, we need to kill off ISIS, and if that meant troops, I think I would agree this time. You don't think we've screwed things up enough already?

Good point. What if we get rid of ISIS, and they are simply replaced by the extremist Muslims?

Good point FD.

Another thing you could say - although its undoubtedly the most heinous of spineless apologetics - is that neither ISIS or Al Qaeda had any presence in Iraq before the US invaded.

In fact the worst terrorist in the region before the invasion was a decrepit old cancer-ridden atheist Palestinian gun-for-hire.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 9:54pm:

Good point FD. Another thing you could say - although its undoubtedly the most heinous of spineless apologetics - is that neither ISIS or Al Qaeda had any presence in Iraq before the US invaded. In fact the worst terrorist in the region before the invasion was a decrepit old cancer-ridden atheist Palestinian gun-for-hire.

Sad, init? No, no sarcasm. I didn't support the birth of this.
What do you propose? We invented Al Qaeda, and it birthed ISIS, and now we have inflicted them upon the Iraqi people. We need some troops that don't run away at the implied threat they will be beheaded or shot or forcibly converted, that's not Iraqis at the moment... They are obviously not ready to defend Iraq. If French are cheese eating surrender monkeys(they're not), Iraqis are hummus eating surrender monkeys. They can't do the job.

It honestly never really occurred to me that the west could be part of the solution to this.

There are actually a lot of further disengagements the US could complete that would arguably help - like stop supporting the corrupt Maliki regime.

If its an external humanitarian force that is needed - let the countries in the region sort it out - legitimised by a UN resolution. Africans have been doing the same for years, and its a hell of a lot messier there.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

So Obama has abandoned his "no new wars" position. When the air strikes fail to turn the situation around, what then? Is this the start of the slippery slope?

WAKE UP AND STAND UP

The Kurds deserve our support.

My first reaction to this was that it is an opportunity for the Iraqis to take ownership of their new democracy.

But I am all for the west helping out with air strikes.

The other middle eastern countries don't want a proper Islamic state any more than the Iraqi government does, but if it comes to a fight between dictators that Muslims like Gandalf whine are western puppets, and Islamic extremists, the extremists may end up winning, or at the very least causing a lot of trouble for a long period of time. The best possible outcome we can hope for is Iraq taking back democracy. The worst is a middle eastern quagmire that tears Muslims between traditional Muhammedism and modern dictators. it would be like Israel vs Palestine on steroids.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 1:43pm: So Obama has abandoned his "no new wars" position. When the air strikes fail to turn the situation around, what then? Is this the start of the slippery slope? WAKE UP AND STAND UP The Kurds deserve our support.

Yes they do.

Setanta wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 10:08pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 9:54pm: Good point FD. Another thing you could say - although its undoubtedly the most heinous of spineless apologetics - is that neither ISIS or Al Qaeda had any presence in Iraq before the US invaded. In fact the worst terrorist in the region before the invasion was a decrepit old cancer-ridden atheist Palestinian gun-for-hire. Sad, init? No, no sarcasm. I didn't support the birth of this. What do you propose? We invented Al Qaeda, and it birthed ISIS, and now we have inflicted them upon the Iraqi people. We need some troops that don't run away at the implied threat they will be beheaded or shot or forcibly converted, that's not Iraqis at the moment... They are obviously not ready to defend Iraq. If French are cheese eating surrender monkeys(they're not), Iraqis are hummus eating surrender monkeys. They can't do the job.

Or the Iraqi army wasn't prepared to die protecting Sunni dominated cities. 

Iraq as a nation is buggered.  Saddam kept it together with terror, America broke it prematurely and the fragments will have to reach some sort of agreement. 

Mix in Syria and maybe in 50 years it will be sorted. 

cods wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 9:05pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 8:57pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 8:43pm: We broke it, we need to help fix it, we need to kill off ISIS, and if that meant troops, I think I would agree this time. You don't think we've screwed things up enough already? thats the trouble it isnt US that screwing it up.... we are happy to let them get on with their lives.. the trouble is they dont want too.. they allow the few to ruin everything...the insurgents are paid assassins.. how many religions so you know that encourage their followers to strap bombs to their chests and walk into a group and detonate it...regardless of who they are killing?????

Interestingly enough the cult of the suicide bomber can be traced back to the Iraq Iran war to a lone individual, a war in which the US supported and armed Iraq against Iran. The idea that suicide bombing is some sort of religious activity is absurd.

Datalife wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 10:33pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 10:08pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 9:54pm: Good point FD. Another thing you could say - although its undoubtedly the most heinous of spineless apologetics - is that neither ISIS or Al Qaeda had any presence in Iraq before the US invaded. In fact the worst terrorist in the region before the invasion was a decrepit old cancer-ridden atheist Palestinian gun-for-hire. Sad, init? No, no sarcasm. I didn't support the birth of this. What do you propose? We invented Al Qaeda, and it birthed ISIS, and now we have inflicted them upon the Iraqi people. We need some troops that don't run away at the implied threat they will be beheaded or shot or forcibly converted, that's not Iraqis at the moment... They are obviously not ready to defend Iraq. If French are cheese eating surrender monkeys(they're not), Iraqis are hummus eating surrender monkeys. They can't do the job. Or the Iraqi army wasn't prepared to die protecting Sunni dominated cities.  Iraq as a nation is buggered.  Saddam kept it together with terror, America broke it prematurely and the fragments will have to reach some sort of agreement.  Mix in Syria and maybe in 50 years it will be sorted.

No OR about it. The army is not a national army, they are not competent, they run and won't defend their country or people. If religious differences are the reason, it just makes it all the more despicable. What ISIS is doing deserves no support or recognition.

Go Obama - give them some justice.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 11:52pm:

Go Obama - give them some justice.

Now there is no chance a single American boot will set foot here.
America has achieved energy independence.
They have friends in Saudi Arabia who like to buy their military trinkets.
They have friends in Israel who own half of Wall Street.
But Muslim on Muslim killing sprees in Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, and I will guarantee soon in Yemen and Algeria and Afghanistan.
This is the dream scenario.
This is how Campbell Newman would feel if told the helps angels and the banditos were shooting it out in a car park
This is the garbage men taking out the garbage,
This is vengeance for 9/11
This is time for popcorn and watching the American plans come to fruition
The Arab spring was awfully smacking brief
The Muslims have no one to blame but themselves
Given so much advantage by those trillions of oil dollars and still a sweaty, over emotional, woman hating, angry donkey riding rabble
Much hand wringing can be expected but I will give odds that there will never be ground troops from the west that know how to fight
Maybe those guys in the white tanks with the blue helmets want to go in
If the Isis can wipe out the UN as well, the dream scenario is complete

aquascoot wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:15am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 8th, 2014 at 11:52pm: Go Obama - give them some justice. Now there is no chance a single American boot will set foot here. America has achieved energy independence. They have friends in Saudi Arabia who like to buy their military trinkets. They have friends in Israel who own half of Wall Street. But Muslim on Muslim killing sprees in Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, and I will guarantee soon in Yemen and Algeria and Afghanistan. This is the dream scenario. This is how Campbell Newman would feel if told the helps angels and the banditos were shooting it out in a car park This is the garbage men taking out the garbage, This is vengeance for 9/11 This is time for popcorn and watching the American plans come to fruition The Arab spring was awfully smacking brief The Muslims have no one to blame but themselves Given so much advantage by those trillions of oil dollars and still a sweaty, over emotional, woman hating, angry donkey riding rabble Much hand wringing can be expected but I will give odds that there will never be ground troops from the west that know how to fight Maybe those guys in the white tanks with the blue helmets want to go in If the Isis can wipe out the UN as well, the dream scenario is complete

but:

ISIS now beheading christian children:

nothing graphic in video only talking:


http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/08/06/idesk-iraq-christians-persecuted-mark-arabo-intv.cnn.html

The Iraqis were probably better off under Saddam.

How many Iraqis have died since the US led invasion of Iraq which was due apparently to Saddam having WMDs?

Amazing how this all comes back to US arming questionable groups once again. Some idiot earlier mentioned Russian support for radical Islam,  what a stupendous comment. Putin tries to fight it to his best ability,  even today during hostile relationship with USA, Putin is still keeping the Russian corridor open to transport US assets into Afghan.

USA on the other hand has been arming the hell out of radical Islamic groups for a long long time. Taliban and Al Quida for instance. But ISIS is their worst creation so far. ISIS was happily taking US supplied arms in Syria from FSA. Now look what they've done.

Thanks Obama. US buggers the Middle East yet again.

It's occasionally worthwhile trawling through the rubbish on here, one sometimes unearths a gem:

...let the countries in the region sort it out - legitimised by a UN resolution. Africans have been doing the same for years, and its a hell of a lot messier there

Massive air power couldn't win the Vietnam war, it couldn't win the Afghan war or clear up the Iraq mess, it couldn't even defeat the Nazis on its own.

What makes anybody think a few air strikes will deter an organisation like ISIS?

It won the Afghan war in about 3 minutes. It is not intended to beat ISIS by itself, merely to help out those already fighting ISIS.

Would you prefer we abandon Iraq's new democracy to the Islamists? Maybe send in ground troops again?

No, I just want people to realise that air strikes won't deter ISIS.
They might help the Kurds marginally, but nothing will save the Iraqis unless Iran gives substantial support.

It's not the Kurds that are going to stop ISIS, but the rest of Iraq, mostly Shites. They aren't going to 'deter' them, they are going to kill them. Air strikes will come in very handy for this.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

Massive air power couldn't win the Vietnam war, it couldn't win the Afghan war or clear up the Iraq mess, it couldn't even defeat the Nazis on its own. What makes anybody think a few air strikes will deter an organisation like ISIS?

have you seen what the yanks are using today bogy??.. they are nothing like what they used in Viet or Afghan...get real..

you may have noticed America is now fighting American weapons...weird isnt it?? maybe its time the yanks stopped giving weapons to certain groups as this could make them targets for the terrorists... they want the weapons more than the people..

500 lb laser guided bombs??

are they silent as well??.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 10:53am:

Would you prefer we abandon Iraq's new democracy to the Islamists? Maybe send in ground troops again?

The airstrikes are not aimed at protecting the so called democracy. Its to protect Erbil against feared attack - the kurds being the US's best ally in the region.

If its about protecting democracy, the US would do better to pressure Baghdad to institute a better and more inclusive democracy for all of Iraq. Then the sunnis might stop opening their doors to ISIS, and might actually have some incentive to fight against them.

Subjecting the sunnis to yet more aerial bombardment would likely just alienate them from Baghdad even more.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

It's not the Kurds that are going to stop ISIS, but the rest of Iraq, mostly Shites. They aren't going to 'deter' them, they are going to kill them. Air strikes will come in very handy for this.

I hope they kill every last one of them.

ISIS is a cancer on the whole world.

Quote:

If its about protecting democracy, the US would do better to pressure Baghdad to institute a better and more inclusive democracy for all of Iraq.

What do you think they have been doing?


Quote:

Then the sunnis might stop opening their doors to ISIS, and might actually have some incentive to fight against them.

The Sunnis are a minority. While they continue with the typical Islamic practice of seeing absolutely everything through the lens of religious conflict, they will remain a minority. There are very few places in the world where for a democracy to even function they need to institutionalise executive appointments on religious lines. There is a limit to how much you can accommodate a minority that demands they rule the place. The society they are creating to replace the democracy should give you a fairly good hint of how successful that can be. The Sunnis open their door to ISIS because they are ideologically opposed to democracy and want to replace it with a proper head hacking Islamic state. That's why so many Australian Muslims are over there fighting with them - not because of lack of inclusiveness in the Iraqi democracy.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:28pm:

The Sunnis open their door to ISIS because they are ideologically opposed to democracy and want to replace it with a proper head hacking Islamic state.

Contemptible ignorant crap.

Not even worth responding to.

anyone that sides with a terrorist group is not interested in democracy...

terrorist are about oppression, its about control..do as I say or off with your head..

I dont call that democracy..
to lead by fear is wrong wrong wrong.. and anyone living in a country like Australia should be ashamed of even thinking ISIS is about democracy even on the smallest level..

cods wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:39pm:

anyone that sides with a terrorist group is not interested in democracy...

Like all those times the west sided with terrorists?

What does that make us cods?

Just a question- anybody know if ISIS will be good for the people of the middle east? Will it be a positive experience if they do come to power?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:42pm:

cods wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:39pm: anyone that sides with a terrorist group is not interested in democracy... Like all those times the west sided with terrorists? What does that make us cods?

when was that???...

I thought we fought the Taliban..or are they the good guys now?..

we have seen where we are called terrorists... because we go in with our faces covered and chop heads off...... on orders from the supreme commander...all in the name of god..

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:28pm: The Sunnis open their door to ISIS because they are ideologically opposed to democracy and want to replace it with a proper head hacking Islamic state. Contemptible ignorant crap. Not even worth responding to.

Yet that is exactly what you did. Abu was a fan of ISIS. At the time I think he described pre-invasion Afghanistan as the last real Islamic state. ISIS would be his wet dream. People don't do this sort of thing because they are frustrated at being a minority group in a democracy. They do it because they genuinely want to establish a proper head hacking Islamic state.

Shakey wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:44pm:

Just a question- anybody know if ISIS will be good for the people of the middle east? Will it be a positive experience if they do come to power?

you would have to ask them... did you see 4 corners last Monday....they clearly said they do not want ISIS they do not want to join.. the Islamic State in Syria... if they dont join they cut their heads off in public...

they live in terrible  fear.. do you think that promotes wellbeing?..

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:35pm: freediver wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:28pm: The Sunnis open their door to ISIS because they are ideologically opposed to democracy and want to replace it with a proper head hacking Islamic state. Contemptible ignorant crap. Not even worth responding to. Yet that is exactly what you did. Abu was a fan of ISIS. At the time I think he described pre-invasion Afghanistan as the last real Islamic state. ISIS would be his wet dream. People don't do this sort of thing because they are frustrated at being a minority group in a democracy. They do it because they genuinely want to establish a proper head hacking Islamic state.

everything they do is violent... and cruel.. how can that be democracy???...

cods wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Shakey wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:44pm: Just a question- anybody know if ISIS will be good for the people of the middle east? Will it be a positive experience if they do come to power? I watched it too cods. That poor bugger getting his throat cut in front of that chanting mob was shocking. ISIS offers nothing. you would have to ask them... did you see 4 corners last Monday....they clearly said they do not want ISIS they do not want to join.. the Islamic State in Syria... if they dont join they cut their heads off in public... they live in terrible  fear.. do you think that promotes wellbeing?..

cods wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Shakey wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:44pm: Just a question- anybody know if ISIS will be good for the people of the middle east? Will it be a positive experience if they do come to power? I watched it too cods. That poor bugger getting his throat cut in front of that chanting mob was shocking. ISIS offers nothing. Where are the street protests. Oh no I forgot, there's no jews involved. you would have to ask them... did you see 4 corners last Monday....they clearly said they do not want ISIS they do not want to join.. the Islamic State in Syria... if they dont join they cut their heads off in public... they live in terrible  fear.. do you think that promotes wellbeing?..

cods wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

when was that???...

Shall I rattle off a list of all the Latin American terrorists that the US supported against democratic governments - starting with the Contras?

And not just terrorists - but anti-democrats in general - such as apartheid South Africa and Suharto.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Abu was a fan of ISIS.

Oh really? I'd just love to see that quote FD - given that the group didn't exist until after Abu stopped posting here.


freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

People don't do this sort of thing because they are frustrated at being a minority group in a democracy. They do it because they genuinely want to establish a proper head hacking Islamic state.

Rubbish. They fought against Al Qaeda, they will fight against ISIS if given the right incentive. What is so unique about the Iraqi sunnis that makes them want a "proper head hacking Islamic state" that neither the shiites or the kurds (also sunnis) don't want? The only thing unique about the arab sunnis in Iraq is that they have lost the most by the increasing authoritarianism of the Maliki regime.

Quote:

Oh really? I'd just love to see that quote FD - given that the group didn't exist until after Abu stopped posting here.

He wanted Islamic states everywhere. ISIS is pretty much what he described as an ideal Islamic state.


Quote:

Rubbish. They fought against Al Qaeda, they will fight against ISIS if given the right incentive.

Right. The people supporting ISIS want a proper head hacking Islamic state. The people fighting against them either don't want it, or want a different flavour of proper head hacking Islamic state.


Quote:

What is so unique about the Iraqi sunnis that makes them want a "proper head hacking Islamic state"

Not unique. They are popular in Syria as well, and like I already said, they would be Abu's wet dream. There are a lot of Australians over there fighting for them, so there is obviously some kind of broad appeal there.


Quote:

that neither the shiites or the kurds (also sunnis) don't want?

Are you saying that Shites and Kurds are Sunnis?

FD,

Quote:

Right. The people supporting ISIS want a proper head hacking Islamic state. The people fighting against them either don't want it, or want a different flavour of proper head hacking Islamic state.

Yes - just as in the head hacking video that Gandalf deleted.

Gandalf appears to be arguing that these people merely want a "more inclusive" democracy where minorities get to run the show, and it is the 'failure' of Iraqi democracy to appease them that made them turn to head hacking. Perhaps that is how Muslims traditionally vote.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 6:01pm:

He wanted Islamic states everywhere. ISIS is pretty much what he described as an ideal Islamic state.

Ok good - so you were speaking out of your arse about what Abu said - again. Just wanted to confirm.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 6:01pm:

Are you saying that ... Kurds are Sunnis?

;D ;D

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 6:44pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 6:01pm: He wanted Islamic states everywhere. ISIS is pretty much what he described as an ideal Islamic state. Ok good - so you were speaking out of your arse about what Abu said - again. Just wanted to confirm.

I am surprised that Abu is not over there already -

he wanted an Islamic state in Australia with full Sharia law.

It's odd that this article doesn't consider the option of US airstrikes cooperating with the existing Iraqi army.

Iraq militants changing tactics, complicating US airstrike mission

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/12/iraq-militants-changing-tactics-complicating-us-airstrike-mission/

Islamic militant forces in northern Iraq appear to be shifting tactics in the face of the newly launched U.S. airstrike campaign, Defense officials say, posing a new challenge to the Obama administration as it seeks to at least slow the terrorists’ advances.

According to officials, until now the Islamic State (IS) was behaving like a well-organized army, moving with strategic intent and pursuing military objectives. Now, officials are seeing at least a partial shift to classic insurgency tactics, as militants begin to blend in among the population, making targeting more difficult.

“One of the things that we have seen with the [IS] forces is that where they have been in the open, they are now starting to dissipate and to hide amongst the people,” Lt. Gen. William Mayville Jr., director for operations with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said. “The targeting in this is going to become more difficult.”

The comments, on one hand, demonstrate how effective airstrikes can be. One of the reasons the militants marched so quickly across Iraq is that the Iraqi Air Force didn't really exist.

On the other hand, in order for the airstrikes to be effective at this stage, U.S. ground forces would be needed to permanently push the group formerly known as ISIS back -- something that has been ruled out by Obama administration officials.

Mayville, as well as President Obama, described the operation Monday as limited in scope.

Mayville, while saying the strikes have “slowed” the group’s “operational tempo and temporarily disrupted their advances towards the province of Irbil,” also appeared to voice skepticism about how much impact they could have.

“The strikes are unlikely to affect [IS’] overall capabilities or its operations in other areas of Iraq and Syria,” he said. Mayville described the impact as “very temporary,” and predicted the forces would “look for other things to do, to pick up and move elsewhere.”

He added, ominously, “So I in no way want to suggest that we have effectively contained or that we are somehow breaking the momentum of the threat.”

Defense sources told Fox News there is tension between the Pentagon and White House and State Department because, once again, the military is being asked to fix a problem after diplomacy failed – yet they are being given a very limited mission.

"There will be no reintroduction of American combat forces into Iraq,” Secretary of State John Kerry said.

On Tuesday, Kerry was also asked about a photo of an Australian boy in Syria that is getting widespread attention – it shows the 7-year-old, brought to Syria by his father to fight, holding the severed head of a Syrian soldier.  The photo elicited a strong response from the secretary of State.

“One of the most disturbing, stomach-turning, grotesque photographs ever displayed -- of a 7-year-old child holding a severed head up with pride and with the support and encouragement of a parent,” Kerry said.

Obama hinted Monday, with regard to Iraq, that there could be more military cooperation if the government follows through on the president’s decision to bypass incumbent Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and name a new prime minister-designate.

Obama called this a "promising step forward," and hinted that if they "build off today's progress," U.S. efforts to join Iraqi forces in fighting IS will be "advanced.”

Yet a political settlement may only go so far in stopping the Islamic State’s advances, as the Sunni organization is not openly seeking a power-sharing agreement with the Shias and Kurds.

On Tuesday, Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., renewed their call for the Obama administration to plot a new approach.

“We should continue to do all we can to support Iraq's political process, but the Administration cannot afford to wait until a political solution is reached in Baghdad before addressing the global threat posed by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS),” they said in a statement, calling for U.S. airstrikes against militant positions in Iraq and next-door Syria.

“Contrary to the administration's rhetoric, commencing actions such as these now can strengthen political leaders in Baghdad who seek to form an inclusive government that can unify their country and better resist ISIS,” they said. “A comprehensive strategy to counter ISIS must be devised and we must begin to implement it now, for the threat posed by ISIS only grows with each passing day, as do the risks of our delay.”

Jennifer Griffin currently serves as a national security correspondent for FOX News Channel . She joined FNC in October 1999 as a Jerusalem-based correspondent.

cods wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:51pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:35pm: freediver wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 4:28pm: The Sunnis open their door to ISIS because they are ideologically opposed to democracy and want to replace it with a proper head hacking Islamic state. Contemptible ignorant crap. Not even worth responding to. Yet that is exactly what you did. Abu was a fan of ISIS. At the time I think he described pre-invasion Afghanistan as the last real Islamic state. ISIS would be his wet dream. People don't do this sort of thing because they are frustrated at being a minority group in a democracy. They do it because they genuinely want to establish a proper head hacking Islamic state. everything they do is violent... and cruel.. how can that be democracy???...

Here’s one for you, FD.

Is that the comment gandalf et al are using to insist I am claiming Abu was here after ISIS burst onto the scene?

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Is that the comment gandalf et al are using to insist I am claiming Abu was here after ISIS burst onto the scene?

No, that’s a question about Iraqi demokracy. Would you like to enlighten poor Cods on the wonderful future of Iraq, post-Freeedom?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI13ezvilyc

Exposed! Dutch Justice Ministry Employee Says ISIS A 'Zionist' Creation!

Published on Aug 14, 2014
http://www.undergroundworldnews.com
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (JTA) — A senior employee of the Dutch Justice Ministry said the jihadist group ISIS was created by Zionists seeking to give Islam a bad reputation.

Yasmina Haifi, a project leader at the ministry’s National Cyber Security Center, made the assertion Wednesday on Twitter, the De Telegraaf daily reported.

“ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It’s part of a plan by Zionists who are deliberately trying to blacken Islam’s name,” wrote Haifi, who described herself on the social network LinkedIn as an activist for the Dutch Labor Party, or PvdA.

Haifi later removed her original message, explaining, “I realize the political sensitivity in connection with my work. That was not my intention.”

http://www.jta.org/2014/08/13/news-opinion/world/dutch-justice-ministry-employee-isis-a-zioist-conspiracy#ixzz3AOhp8bqh

Dutch Justice Ministry employee: ISIS a Zionist conspiracy
August 13, 2014 6:31am


THE HAGUE, Netherlands (JTA) — A senior employee of the Dutch Justice Ministry said the jihadist group ISIS was created by Zionists seeking to give Islam a bad reputation.
Yasmina Haifi, a project leader at the ministry’s National Cyber Security Center, made the assertion Wednesday on Twitter, the De Telegraaf daily reported.
“ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It’s part of a plan by Zionists who are deliberately trying to blacken Islam’s name,” wrote Haifi, who described herself on the social network LinkedIn as an activist for the Dutch Labor Party, or PvdA.
Haifi later removed her original message, explaining, “I realize the political sensitivity in connection with my work. That was not my intention.”
Two right-wing lawmakers, Joram van Klaveren and Louis Bontes of the VNL faction, asked the ministry how one with such views reached a prominent position in the ministry and if Haifi’s employment constituted a security risk.
A series of rallies supporting ISIS, which is considered a terrorist organization in many Western countries, were held in the Hague in July and earlier this month. Some demonstrators called for violence. The demonstrations on July 2 and 24 featured calls to kill Jews.
When anti-ISIS demonstrators tried to march through the heavily Muslim neighborhood of Schilderswijk on Aug. 10 to express their disapproval, a crowd of approximately 200 men barricaded the main street and staged an illegal counterdemonstration in support of ISIS.
Some of the protesters hurled stones at police who tried to remove the obstacles. Six people were arrested.

Maybe Abu and Falah and Malik were Jewish stooges too.

Karnal wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 12:13am:

freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2014 at 8:54pm: Is that the comment gandalf et al are using to insist I am claiming Abu was here after ISIS burst onto the scene? No, that’s a question about Iraqi demokracy. Would you like to enlighten poor Cods on the wonderful future of Iraq, post-Freeedom?

oh there goes dear sweet kamel... the class clown who thinks he is so amusing... naughty corner kamel...you are wasting the teachers time again...

we bright sparks know what we are talking about... you are the sad one who falls through the cracks...never mind...one or two do take notice of you...,