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General Discussion >> Thinking Globally >> ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
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Message started by Yadda on Aug 23rd, 2014 at 8:26pm

Title: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 23rd, 2014 at 8:26pm

ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who holds a sensitive government position in the Netherlands, who has has also worked as a project leader for "Security and Counterterrorism", in the Netherlands!







Yasmina Haifi - worked as a project leader at the National Coordinator for Security and Counterterrorism, in the Netherlands.



Quote:

Dutch Official Calls ISIS "A Zionist Plot"

by Evelyn Markus
August 23, 2014


On Tuesday last week, Yasmina Haifi, an official at the National Coordinator for Security and Counterterrorism in the Netherlands, tweeted: "ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It is a preconceived plan of Zionists who want to deliberately make Islam look bad."

For the past ten years, Ms. Haifi has been a senior staff member at the human resources department of the Ministry of Security and Justice. For the past two years she has also worked as a project leader at two of the Ministry's subsidiaries, the National Coordinator for Security and Counterterrorism and the National Cyber Security Center.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4641/isis-zionist-plot


Those sneaky Zionists!!!!!

And, its working!!

Coz i don't have a high opinion of moslems/ISLAM.        :P





But can you believe it!

This moslem woman, who is spreading this allegation, this libel against Jews, holds a sensitive government position in the Netherlands, as "a senior staff member at the human resources department of the Ministry of Security and Justice. For the past two years she has also worked as a project leader at two of the Ministry's subsidiaries, the National Coordinator for Security and Counterterrorism..." !!!

It is reported that Yasmina Haifi has been 'suspended', from her government position.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Aug 24th, 2014 at 1:07am

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Team Grappler on Aug 24th, 2014 at 4:58am
Well, of course it is - to anyone with a refined sense of conspiracy theory everything in the world is a Zionist plot.  Take a look at OzPolitic on a bad day....

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:29am
See? The Muslims can't even start a caliphate without the Jews setting it up for them.
And they want independence and equal respect???


Colonisation ended way too soon.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 24th, 2014 at 9:45am
It's almost a joke how the Jews get blamed for everything - even the weather.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 24th, 2014 at 10:06am

Soren wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:29am:


See? The Muslims can't even start a caliphate without the Jews setting it up for them.



;D         ;D         ;D   



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 24th, 2014 at 10:23am

ISIS is a Zionist plot!



"ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It is a preconceived plan of Zionists who want to deliberately make Islam look bad."
Yasmina Haifi







AND HERE [below] IS A YT OF ANOTHER ZIONIST, WHO IS IMPERSONATING A MOSLEM, HERE IN AUSTRALIA!!!

THIS ZIONIST IS STIRRING UP ANIMOSITY AGAINST AUSTRALIAN DISBELIEVERS, TELLING LOCAL MOSLEMS THAT THEY ARE ALL JIHADISTS TILL THE DAY THAT THEY DIE - AS GLORIOUS DEFENDERS OF ISLAM.

THOSE SNEAKY ZIONISTS!!!!!!!             :P




Quote:

"This nation [i.e. the moslem nation/community, the ummah] has been and will continue to be a nation of Jihad until Judgement day.

MAKE NO MISTAKE: THE NATION HAS NOT CHANGED ITS THINKING, ITS RELIGION, OR ITS FAITH. [i.e. a moslem, IS, a moslem!!!]

IT HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE A NATION OF JIHAD UNTIL JUDGEMENT DAY."




Australian Islamist Leaders Incite to Jihad to Expel Jews from Palestine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN6B8WBzbpw




as per Koran.....

"O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter?...."
Koran 9.38,39

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Aug 24th, 2014 at 10:39am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 9:45am:
It's almost a joke how the Jews get blamed for everything - even the weather.


many blessings

zionists are not jews

again your confusion is exposed grasshopper

http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/zionism/judaism_isnot_zionism.cfm

JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE NOT THE SAME THING

forgiven

namaste

- : ) =

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 24th, 2014 at 4:09pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 10:23am:
"ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It is a preconceived plan of Zionists who want to deliberately make Islam look bad."



Do they have some kind of PR school or something?


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2014 at 6:44pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 19th, 2014 at 6:33pm:
an attempt to draw sympathy for head hacking Muslim extremists.


Or, exposing blatant lies designed to smear ordinary muslims.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by jmjcare on Aug 24th, 2014 at 5:59pm

Quote:
In the June 18 issue of The Anti-New York Times, we made the following forecast about ISIS, the new super villain that had just popped up out of nowhere:

"And now, just when the Iraqi government seemed to be getting too chummy with Iran, it's back in we go. But first, a pretext was needed; ISIS.

The ISIS "uprising" is a US-Israel engineered plot using provocateurs, mercenaries, "jihadist" fanatics, and NGO's. The Axis of Evil and its various puppets seek to smash any independent Middle Eastern state that refuses to bow down to Greater Israel.

Apart from its relationship with Iran and proximity to Syria, the other reason for blowing up Iraq has to do with planned chaos. The Zionist dream of a Greater Israel, to stretch from Iraq to Egypt, requires fragmented and weak Arab states that can later be ethnically cleaned."
(emphasis added)

In the wake of the fake beheading of a CPR dummy standing in for known CIA asset James Foley (here), as well as other real ISIS atrocities, now comes the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to make the closing argument. From today's article:

“Can they (ISIS) be defeated without addressing that part of the organization that resides in Syria? The answer is no.”

This is all so transparent now. What a brilliant set of strategic maneuvers we have witnessed over the past year or so. Here is a review of the events which have us on the brink of the very same Middle East war that was narrowly averted last year:

1. September 2013: Russia and China block an attack upon Syria (and Iran) by openly flexing their military muscle in the Mediterranean Sea
2. March 2014: US / Israel stages a coup in Ukraine
3. Summer 2014: NATO and puppet Ukraine threaten a military operation against Russia
4. Summer 2014: Japan, Australia, Vietnam, and the Philippines antagonize and divert China


5. Summer 2014: Phony controlled ISIS is unleashed in Iraq and Syria
6. Today: Neo-Cons and other assorted warmongers call upon the USA to "stop ISIS"
7. Soon? With Russia and China diverted, NATO slips into Syria to "save the world" from ISI


tomatobubble.com/id653.html

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:35pm

"zionists are not jews"

AND,

"JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE NOT THE SAME THING"



The people who spread statements like the ones above, are the same people who say;



"ISLAM is peace"

AND,

"[ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

They are people who want to spread disinformation and lies - AND CONFUSION - in the human heart.


Are you for truth ?

Or are you for confusion ?





The existence of Israel today, is a 'litmus test' for the people of the world.

So you must decide.

What do you stand for, and who do you stand beside ?



QUESTION;
Who today, what group of people, most vociferously express their hatred for the Jewish people, and, for the state of Israel ?

ANSWER;
Moslems and ISLAM.

The liars.

And the murderers.

Those who hate what is true, because what is true shames them, and exposes their wickedness.



It is simple.

You must decide.

Do you stand beside moslems and with ISLAM ?




QUESTION;
Who do the majority of the people of the nations of the world today stand with ?

Is it with Israel ?

Or is it in the camp of those who wish to destroy Israel ?

Well, if you are in that camp, then God damn you.


Psalms 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2  The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.




+++

QUESTION;
Are you an 'anti-Zionist' ?



1948

Isaiah 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.


Jeremiah 23:7
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8  But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.





Psalms 129:5
Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.


Psalms 132:13
For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.


Psalms 149:1
Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2  Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3  Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
4  For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.


God, will be the saviour of his people.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.







+++


The international community should be standing with Israel.

Video tour through Israel

Israel ¡Seeing is Believing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLgdb6r0MQ4


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:38pm
Who says she is a muslim? Besides Yadda?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:40pm
I am a Danish Lutheran Zionist.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:38pm:
Who says she is a muslim? Besides Yadda?


Those cunning Joos have done it again.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:38pm:

Who says she is a muslim?


Besides Yadda?




LOL

It is true gandaf,          ....Yasmina Haifi could be a Danish Lutheran.         :P


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 24th, 2014 at 9:23pm
I have seen no evidence she is actually muslim.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 24th, 2014 at 10:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

I have seen no evidence she is actually muslim.



gandaf,

Yasmina Haifi is like yourself.

Yasmina Haifi is a flag in the 'political wind'.

Yasmina Haifi is 'all things to all people', [as a moslem living among non-moslems] she is a 'woman for all seasons'.

The phrase, the affirmation; "ISLAM is peace.", comes to mind.


And as a moslem, she is a servant of her community and of her religion.

She is a moslem, 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

No ?






A relationship [with disbelievers] founded in deceit and lies, which can advance the interests of moslems and ISLAM, is not only permissible, but it is encouraged.

e.g.

Quote:
July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels

...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php







A RESPECTED MOSLEM SCHOLAR URGING MOSLEMS, IN THE UK, TO MAINTAIN A DECEITFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UK NON-MOSLEM COMMUNITY, FOR THE PURPOSE OF MOSLEMS STRENGTHENING A MALICIOUS AND VIOLENT INTENT [on the moslem part, towards those who are not moslems].


Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece







IMAGE...


Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:
How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong


"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/





+++

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR US TO HAVE A HEALTHY, FRIENDLY, AND MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO CONSTANTLY AND INTENTIONALLY LIE TO US;

MOSLEMS.



Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"






Quote:
"A Study in Muslim Doctrine

...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine



Taqiyya
Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”
google


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 24th, 2014 at 11:19pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 8:35pm:
"zionists are not jews"

AND,

"JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE NOT THE SAME THING"



The people who spread statements like the ones above, are the same people who say;



"ISLAM is peace"

AND,

"[ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

They are people who want to spread disinformation and lies - AND CONFUSION - in the human heart.


Are you for truth ?

Or are you for confusion ?





The existence of Israel today, is a 'litmus test' for the people of the world.

So you must decide.

What do you stand for, and who do you stand beside ?



QUESTION;
Who today, what group of people, most vociferously express their hatred for the Jewish people, and, for the state of Israel ?

ANSWER;
Moslems and ISLAM.

The liars.

And the murderers.

Those who hate what is true, because what is true shames them, and exposes their wickedness.



It is simple.

You must decide.

Do you stand beside moslems and with ISLAM ?




QUESTION;
Who do the majority of the people of the nations of the world today stand with ?

Is it with Israel ?

Or is it in the camp of those who wish to destroy Israel ?

Well, if you are in that camp, then God damn you.


Psalms 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2  The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.




+++

QUESTION;
Are you an 'anti-Zionist' ?



1948

Isaiah 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.


Jeremiah 23:7
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8  But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.





Psalms 129:5
Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.


Psalms 132:13
For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.


Psalms 149:1
Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2  Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3  Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
4  For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.


God, will be the saviour of his people.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.







+++


The international community should be standing with Israel.

Video tour through Israel

Israel ¡Seeing is Believing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLgdb6r0MQ4



Yadda,
can you make your posts a little longer please?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 25th, 2014 at 9:22am
Let's assume that all the chips fell the jihadis' way, that they recruited enough volunteers to be able to kidnap and decapitate every single Jew in Palestine. Then what? Muslims would still be, as Pakistan's General Musharraf told a conference, "the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most unenlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race." Who would "the victim of the world" blame next? The evidence of the Sudan, Nigeria and other parts of Africa (and Iraq, Syria) suggests that, when there are no Jews to hand, the Islamofascists happily make do with killing Christians. In Kashmir, it's the Hindus' fault. There's always someone.

http://www.steynonline.com/6533/the-face-of-the-tiger

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 25th, 2014 at 4:35pm

Soren wrote on Aug 25th, 2014 at 9:22am:
Let's assume that all the chips fell the jihadis' way, that they recruited enough volunteers to be able to kidnap and decapitate every single Jew in Palestine. Then what? Muslims would still be, as Pakistan's General Musharraf told a conference, "the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most unenlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race." Who would "the victim of the world" blame next? The evidence of the Sudan, Nigeria and other parts of Africa (and Iraq, Syria) suggests that, when there are no Jews to hand, the Islamofascists happily make do with killing Christians. In Kashmir, it's the Hindus' fault. There's always someone.

http://www.steynonline.com/6533/the-face-of-the-tiger


Not unlike your good self, old chap. When you finished with the communists, it was the Muselman. When you're done with him, you'll get to work on Yellow Peril, or Persians, or Zoroastrians. Anyone will do.

Always, absolutely, never ever.

Jolly world, what.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Aug 26th, 2014 at 5:04am
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=315312

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD8jJrYXBQs

Forensic Experts Conclude - Foley Beheading Video was Staged as War Propaganda

Posted By: Jordon [Send E-Mail]
Date: Monday, 25-Aug-2014 07:33:25


Experts: James Foley Beheading Video Likely Fake

Forensic analysis confirms Infowars investigation that footage was staged as war propaganda.

Confirming Infowars’ analysis on Thursday, British forensic experts have concluded that the ISIS beheading video involving James Foley was in all likelihood staged using “camera trickery and slick post-production techniques.”

An international forensic science company which does work for police forces across Britain found that, “James Foley’s execution may have been staged, with the actual murder taking place off-camera,” reports the Telegraph.

The experts noted that despite Foley’s executioner appearing to draw a knife across the neck area at least six times, no blood is seen. The video itself does not show the actual beheading, merely a still image which purports to show Foley’s decapitated head resting on his body.

“Aymenn al-Tamimi, a fellow at the Middle East Forum think-tank, remarked that ISIS has greatly improved their video production over the last few years,” reports the Inquisitr. “Techniques to fake a beheading would not be difficult for them to manage, and the video doesn’t exactly leave their failures on the hidden: Despite six slashing motion to James’ neck, no blood can be seen in the video; Foley’s reaction seems to be very disconnected with what is actually occurring, the analysts said.”

This point was also covered in our analysis which emphasized how calm and collected Foley appeared to be as he read out his statement, a demeanor completely contradictory to the notion that he was about to be brutally executed.

The experts also concluded that a blip in the footage suggests Foley misread one of his lines from the script and had to re-film the sequence.

The obvious question that arises out of this is why ISIS militants, who have quickly developed a global reputation for their barbarity and carelessness for human life, would not simply have beheaded Foley on camera without the need to stage the event.

The only logical conclusion, whether Foley was later killed or not, is that the video was not produced or released by actual ISIS militants but by western intelligence agencies to be used as a casus belli to expand military expansion in the middle east.

For years we have exhaustively documented how so-called Al-Qaeda, Bin Laden and other terrorist propaganda videos were in fact produced by companies working on behalf of the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency.

It has also emerged that the identity of the individual seen staging the murder, one Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary, is a former rapper from a wealthy family who left London to fight in Syria. Bary fits the profile of an informant for British security services.

The beheading video has been used as a poster child to push for a renewed U.S. military strike on Syria, a prospect that was derailed last year after it emerged that a supposed chemical weapons attack which was blamed on the Assad government had in all likelihood been carried out by western-backed rebels.

U.S. officials have cited the “new context” for confronting ISIS that was spurred by the release of the Foley beheading video, with Washington signaling its intention on Saturday to prepare a new military assault on Syria.

In our analysis, we pointed out several other factors that clearly suggested the James Foley video was not what it purported to be, including the absence of other militants who normally appear in beheading videos, the lack of references to the Koran and no chants of “Allahu Akbar” as the execution is taking place.

Watch our original analysis of the Foley beheading video below. Note the video does not contain any footage of the staged beheading, which wasn’t actually shown in the original footage anyway. Despite this, YouTube partially censored the video by labeling it “offensive” and blocking access to non-You Tube account holders.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Aug 26th, 2014 at 5:30am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3xpXDh4NuE

Assad's Game Changer! Syria 'Ready' to Work with U.S. Against ISIS!

Published on Aug 25, 2014
http://www.undergroundworldnews.com
Syria said on Monday that it is “ready” to work with the United States and other world powers in fighting terrorism, as its ally Russia urged Western and Arab governments to overcome their distaste for President Bashar al-Assad.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/08/25/Syria-ready-to-work-with-world-against-terror.html

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by jmjcare on Aug 28th, 2014 at 12:19am
ISIL: Another fine mess, history repeats itself


Link: english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/21-08-2014/128330-isil_history-0/



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by crazychris on Aug 28th, 2014 at 1:39am

Yadda wrote on Aug 23rd, 2014 at 8:26pm:

ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who holds a sensitive government position in the Netherlands, who has has also worked as a project leader for "Security and Counterterrorism", in the Netherlands!


yep, I agree, the jews brainwashed mohammed 1400 years ago, and told him to create islam, so that the moslems would murder everyone who doesn't bow down to allah, they even murdered each other for 1400 years, and it was all to this end, that one day "isis" would rise up and murder moslems, brilliant bloody plan eh..

"ISIS is a Zionist plot" what a load of crap.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by sherri on Aug 28th, 2014 at 6:31am

it_is_the_light wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 5:04am:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=315312

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD8jJrYXBQs

Forensic Experts Conclude - Foley Beheading Video was Staged as War Propaganda

Posted By: Jordon [Send E-Mail]
Date: Monday, 25-Aug-2014 07:33:25


Experts: James Foley Beheading Video Likely Fake

Forensic analysis confirms Infowars investigation that footage was staged as war propaganda.

Confirming Infowars’ analysis on Thursday, British forensic experts have concluded that the ISIS beheading video involving James Foley was in all likelihood staged using “camera trickery and slick post-production techniques.”

An international forensic science company which does work for police forces across Britain found that, “James Foley’s execution may have been staged, with the actual murder taking place off-camera,” reports the Telegraph.

The experts noted that despite Foley’s executioner appearing to draw a knife across the neck area at least six times, no blood is seen. The video itself does not show the actual beheading, merely a still image which purports to show Foley’s decapitated head resting on his body.

“Aymenn al-Tamimi, a fellow at the Middle East Forum think-tank, remarked that ISIS has greatly improved their video production over the last few years,” reports the Inquisitr. “Techniques to fake a beheading would not be difficult for them to manage, and the video doesn’t exactly leave their failures on the hidden: Despite six slashing motion to James’ neck, no blood can be seen in the video; Foley’s reaction seems to be very disconnected with what is actually occurring, the analysts said.”

This point was also covered in our analysis which emphasized how calm and collected Foley appeared to be as he read out his statement, a demeanor completely contradictory to the notion that he was about to be brutally executed.

The experts also concluded that a blip in the footage suggests Foley misread one of his lines from the script and had to re-film the sequence.
The obvious question that arises out of this is why ISIS militants, who have quickly developed a global reputation for their barbarity and carelessness for human life, would not simply have beheaded Foley on camera without the need to stage the event.

The only logical conclusion, whether Foley was later killed or not, is that the video was not produced or released by actual ISIS militants but by western intelligence agencies to be used as a casus belli to expand military expansion in the middle east.
For years we have exhaustively documented how so-called Al-Qaeda, Bin Laden and other terrorist propaganda videos were in fact produced by companies working on behalf of the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency.

It has also emerged that the identity of the individual seen staging the murder, one Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary, is a former rapper from a wealthy family who left London to fight in Syria. Bary fits the profile of an informant for British security services.

The beheading video has been used as a poster child to push for a renewed U.S. military strike on Syria, a prospect that was derailed last year after it emerged that a supposed chemical weapons attack which was blamed on the Assad government had in all likelihood been carried out by western-backed rebels.

U.S. officials have cited the “new context” for confronting ISIS that was spurred by the release of the Foley beheading video, with Washington signaling its intention on Saturday to prepare a new military assault on Syria.

In our analysis, we pointed out several other factors that clearly suggested the James Foley video was not what it purported to be, including the absence of other militants who normally appear in beheading videos, the lack of references to the Koran and no chants of “Allahu Akbar” as the execution is taking place.

Watch our original analysis of the Foley beheading video below. Note the video does not contain any footage of the staged beheading, which wasn’t actually shown in the original footage anyway. Despite this, YouTube partially censored the video by labeling it “offensive” and blocking access to non-You Tube account holders.


I think you have jumped to the wrong conclusion.
James Foley looked tense to me, very tense, although in control of himself.

But the real question you should ask yourself (and I haven't seen a soul anywhere ask it yet) is this;
Why would James Foley, facing execution, read out an ad for his executioners? Why would he say stuff that goes against his real beliefs?

I don't believe it is because he was taking part in any conspiracy. I believe he is dead and that he knew he was facing death when he read his script.

So the real question is what this ISIS threaten him with, because that is what they have obviously done. So what is worse than death?
perhaps there were other hostages off camera and they faced a gruesome death if he didn't do as told. Perhaps they threatened to get to his family in USA if he didn't.

Or perhaps he had a choice of death. A slow, extended beheading or if he did their bidding, a quick bullet off screen, followed by a head chop, or even just a quicker beheading.

But it's no Zionist plot, that's for sure. The man had a threat hanging over his head and he has been killed. Off screen or on screen, does it matter?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by crazychris on Aug 28th, 2014 at 10:15am

Quote:
I think you have jumped to the wrong conclusion.
James Foley looked tense to me, very tense, although in control of himself.

But the real question you should ask yourself (and I haven't seen a soul anywhere ask it yet) is this;
Why would James Foley, facing execution, read out an ad for his executioners? Why would he say stuff that goes against his real beliefs?

I don't believe it is because he was taking part in any conspiracy. I believe he is dead and that he knew he was facing death when he read his script.

So the real question is what this ISIS threaten him with, because that is what they have obviously done. So what is worse than death?
perhaps there were other hostages off camera and they faced a gruesome death if he didn't do as told. Perhaps they threatened to get to his family in USA if he didn't.

Or perhaps he had a choice of death. A slow, extended beheading or if he did their bidding, a quick bullet off screen, followed by a head chop, or even just a quicker beheading.

But it's no Zionist plot, that's for sure. The man had a threat hanging over his head and he has been killed. Off


good questions sherri, he most definitely would have been threatened with other peoples lives if he didn't do what he was told.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by King FriYAY II on Aug 28th, 2014 at 11:03am

it_is_the_light wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 5:04am:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=315312

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD8jJrYXBQs

Forensic Experts Conclude - Foley Beheading Video was Staged as War Propaganda

Posted By: Jordon [Send E-Mail]
Date: Monday, 25-Aug-2014 07:33:25


Experts: James Foley Beheading Video Likely Fake

Forensic analysis confirms Infowars investigation that footage was staged as war propaganda.

Confirming Infowars’ analysis on Thursday, British forensic experts have concluded that the ISIS beheading video involving James Foley was in all likelihood staged using “camera trickery and slick post-production techniques.”

An international forensic science company which does work for police forces across Britain found that, “James Foley’s execution may have been staged, with the actual murder taking place off-camera,” reports the Telegraph.

The experts noted that despite Foley’s executioner appearing to draw a knife across the neck area at least six times, no blood is seen. The video itself does not show the actual beheading, merely a still image which purports to show Foley’s decapitated head resting on his body.

“Aymenn al-Tamimi, a fellow at the Middle East Forum think-tank, remarked that ISIS has greatly improved their video production over the last few years,” reports the Inquisitr. “Techniques to fake a beheading would not be difficult for them to manage, and the video doesn’t exactly leave their failures on the hidden: Despite six slashing motion to James’ neck, no blood can be seen in the video; Foley’s reaction seems to be very disconnected with what is actually occurring, the analysts said.”

This point was also covered in our analysis which emphasized how calm and collected Foley appeared to be as he read out his statement, a demeanor completely contradictory to the notion that he was about to be brutally executed.

The experts also concluded that a blip in the footage suggests Foley misread one of his lines from the script and had to re-film the sequence.

The obvious question that arises out of this is why ISIS militants, who have quickly developed a global reputation for their barbarity and carelessness for human life, would not simply have beheaded Foley on camera without the need to stage the event.

The only logical conclusion, whether Foley was later killed or not, is that the video was not produced or released by actual ISIS militants but by western intelligence agencies to be used as a casus belli to expand military expansion in the middle east.

For years we have exhaustively documented how so-called Al-Qaeda, Bin Laden and other terrorist propaganda videos were in fact produced by companies working on behalf of the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency.

It has also emerged that the identity of the individual seen staging the murder, one Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary, is a former rapper from a wealthy family who left London to fight in Syria. Bary fits the profile of an informant for British security services.

The beheading video has been used as a poster child to push for a renewed U.S. military strike on Syria, a prospect that was derailed last year after it emerged that a supposed chemical weapons attack which was blamed on the Assad government had in all likelihood been carried out by western-backed rebels.

U.S. officials have cited the “new context” for confronting ISIS that was spurred by the release of the Foley beheading video, with Washington signaling its intention on Saturday to prepare a new military assault on Syria.

In our analysis, we pointed out several other factors that clearly suggested the James Foley video was not what it purported to be, including the absence of other militants who normally appear in beheading videos, the lack of references to the Koran and no chants of “Allahu Akbar” as the execution is taking place.

Watch our original analysis of the Foley beheading video below. Note the video does not contain any footage of the staged beheading, which wasn’t actually shown in the original footage anyway. Despite this, YouTube partially censored the video by labeling it “offensive” and blocking access to non-You Tube account holders.


You believe any crap these armchair morons throw at you.

Are you that dumb or just gullible?

I hope you meet this innocent mans parents and they kick the absolute crap out of you.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Aug 28th, 2014 at 11:20am

King FriYAY II wrote on Aug 28th, 2014 at 11:03am:

I hope you meet this innocent mans parents and they kick the absolute crap out of you.



Ooooooh!          Not nice King FriYAY II.



Count to ten, and take several deep breathes.        ;)

You'll feel much calmer.    


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by King FriYAY II on Aug 28th, 2014 at 11:31am

Yadda wrote on Aug 28th, 2014 at 11:20am:

King FriYAY II wrote on Aug 28th, 2014 at 11:03am:

I hope you meet this innocent mans parents and they kick the absolute crap out of you.



Ooooooh!          Not nice King FriYAY II.



Count to ten, and take several deep breathes.        ;)

You'll feel much calmer.    



Na, I’m sick of the tenuous innuendo crap this thing posts up as facts.

It has no feelings what-so-ever for the people suffering (I guess it assumes these people don’t actually exist and are paid actors or something)

I can only hope karma comes around real quick for this thing.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Freedumb on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:39am
There is a simple, and even logical explanation, that rings true for all facts, conspiracy theories and propaganda/disinformation, and it is this:

There are no "sides" whether it be country, religion, politics or teams. The only "side" exists within the human body, the evil soul that works for his or her own interests. Religion, race, politics, teams and anything else that suggests opposition and division is just an illusion, because all of mankind comes from the same place.

There are good muslims, and bad muslims, and aspects of both good and bad in each one, the same applies for Christians, Jews, white, black, yellow and every other "sub-category" of humankind.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33am
Are there bad ideologies?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:47am

Freedumb wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:39am:
There is a simple, and even logical explanation, that rings true for all facts, conspiracy theories and propaganda/disinformation, and it is this:

There are no "sides" whether it be country, religion, politics or teams. The only "side" exists within the human body, the evil soul that works for his or her own interests. Religion, race, politics, teams and anything else that suggests opposition and division is just an illusion, because all of mankind comes from the same place.

There are good muslims, and bad muslims, and aspects of both good and bad in each one, the same applies for Christians, Jews, white, black, yellow and every other "sub-category" of humankind.

Everything is the same same. It's like anything. Difference is illusion.

Genius.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:09am
I haven't heard ISIS blamed on the Jews, but I have heard conspiracy theories about the CIA that involve ISIS being innocent of the crimes attributed to them - that they're being horribly misrepresented because proper religious Muslims would never do what they're doing. I have heard other Muslims blame the US because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - how do you expect a generation of young men who have been terrorised by war to behave?

Mainstream Muslims are as horrified by what's happening in the Middle East as anyone else. If they deny that Muslims are responsible it is because they know from experience that when one group of extremist Muslims do something awful, the entire population get the blame to various degrees. They are defensive and it's understandable. That is a major problem and one that needs to be addressed urgently. That defensiveness is what makes Muslim youth vulnerable to recruitment.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:12am
what exactly is the problem? Muslims' defensiveness?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:23am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:12am:
what exactly is the problem? Muslims' defensiveness?


I am not going to discuss this with you if you're going to be silly about it.

A problem, not THE problem. 

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:24am
many blessings as truth would have it

alqaeda is now isis ,

the linguistics have been manipulated

however

many lighted beings see through the deceit

and continue to assist the divine feminine

and expose the terrorist shell game and crimes

inflicted upon humanity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27esxkQtfTc

Ron Paul - Israel Created Hamas

Palestine has been under occupation since 1948.

be at peace

namaste

- : ) =

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:24am
Annie, what do you suggest we do about it?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:28am
this islamic state movement

in which you know as isis

is another tentacle of the dark

cashed up yes much equipment to validate

and justify war against terror ... these criminals

funded and carried out 9/11 a satanic strike

against humanity which has now morphed into isis ..

just like corporations get dissolved and a new one

springs up yes tried and true methodology for

the dark one however and alas

the divine and sacred light cometh

so be it

namaste



http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad

by Hassane Zerouky

Global Outlook, No 2, Summer 2002
www.globalresearch.ca   23 March 2004
The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation

Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:32am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:24am:
What do you suggest we do about it?


I don't know. I am surprised by ISIS.

I do think it of the utmost importance that people with a public voice should be very clear to draw a distinction between mainstream Australian Muslims and extremists when discussing terrorism. The Muslim = Terrorism fallacy is as harmful and divisive as it is incorrect.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:35am
Do you mean Muslims with a public voice?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:40am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you mean Muslims with a public voice?



No, not particularly. I mean politicians and the media in general.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:50am
We have about 100 Australians fighting overseas for various Islamic terrorist groups (more apparently than in our own armed forces). Instead of trying to shield the Muslim community from criticism for this, don't you think it is more important to encourage them to take more responsibility for it? What do you think is more harmful, 100 Australians slaughtering and raping their way across the middle east, or Australian Muslims feeling a bit of shame over it?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:55am
But all Muslims by definition want a caliphate, want sharia, support jihad. These are foundation doctrines. Only the lapsed or halfhearted Muslims are not keen on these things - but they can hardly be regarded as speaking for Muslims.

This is why they all, lapsed and devout, jump up and down about Israel but are silent about Muslim on Muslim and especially Muslim on christian violence. Muslims cannot point to an internal line within Islam that separates the meek Muslim from the wild one because there is no such line in Islam. Islam itself is the justification for Isis, the mullahs, boko haram, etc.
It is individual personality, not anything in Islam, that makes the difference between the meek and the bloody Muslims.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:01am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you mean Muslims with a public voice?



No, not particularly. I mean politicians and the media in general.



yet when Abbott calls for a TEAM Australia he is derided for it... >:(

one thing one has to give terrorist organizations.. and that is they all think and act the same...

something us aussies dont do..even when it comes to protecting the country...

as far as I know Australian born males have left this country to go and fight with ISIS...they have had all the benefits that this country has to offer...

yet they prefer to fight with something evil...

yes I call it evil... if someone says JOIN US or have you head on a pole...I call it EVIL..

no I dont TAR every muslim with the same brush.. but I was not happy about the boycott from Muslim leaders at all..

its all about words.. Oh he didnt use the right words.. :D :D

no thats right he used English word right on the nail... not the usual political correct words which pizzzz me off..

but its ok to call us infidels who should be beheaded... >:(

and lets not pretend all muslims love Christians .... because no I do not believe that either..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:02am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you mean Muslims with a public voice?



No, not particularly. I mean politicians and the media in general.

So by analogy, the Church doesn't need to speak out against the abusers in it, it's up to politicians and the media as the vast majority of catholics are not themselves abusers.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:03am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:50am:
We have about 100 Australians fighting overseas for various Islamic terrorist groups (more apparently than in our own armed forces). Instead of trying to shield the Muslim community from criticism for this, don't you think it is more important to encourage them to take more responsibility for it? What do you think is more harmful, 100 Australians slaughtering and raping their way across the middle east, or Australian Muslims feeling a bit of shame over it?


Why should Australian Muslims feel responsible? Accepting responsibility is a personal thing. Did you put on a hair shirt when the Cronulla riots happened? Most people cringed at the image this portrayed to the world about white Australia, but they didn't accept personal responsibility. I'd hazard a guess to say that's how the vast majority of Muslims feel about ISIS.

Nothing good will come of making Muslims grovel to be allowed into the fold. They don't need to accept responsibility and they don't need to be ashamed. In fact, we need to strongly discourage that. The last thing we want to force is a feeling of connection between mainstream Muslims and extremists. They are unrelated and if we want it to stay that way, we should reinforce it at every opportunity.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am:
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.



is there anything on the outrage from the Muslim community in Australia on this one bobby??...

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:02am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you mean Muslims with a public voice?



No, not particularly. I mean politicians and the media in general.

So by analogy, the Church doesn't need to speak out against the abusers in it, it's up to politicians and the media as the vast majority of catholics are not themselves abusers.


No, a more fitting analogy would be that the general Catholic population don't need to feel responsible or ashamed about the abusers.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:06am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am:
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.



is there anything on the outrage from the Muslim community in Australia on this one bobby??...



I think Muslims here are covering their eyes.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:07am
And Soren...speaking out is not the same as feeling responsible or ashamed. It is important for Muslim leaders to speak out in condemnation, but not to appease the wider population. They should do it to reassure and guide the Muslims they lead.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:12am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:03am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:50am:
We have about 100 Australians fighting overseas for various Islamic terrorist groups (more apparently than in our own armed forces). Instead of trying to shield the Muslim community from criticism for this, don't you think it is more important to encourage them to take more responsibility for it? What do you think is more harmful, 100 Australians slaughtering and raping their way across the middle east, or Australian Muslims feeling a bit of shame over it?


Why should Australian Muslims feel responsible? Accepting responsibility is a personal thing. Did you put on a hair shirt when the Cronulla riots happened? Most people cringed at the image this portrayed to the world about white Australia, but they didn't accept personal responsibility. I'd hazard a guess to say that's how the vast majority of Muslims feel about ISIS.


the Cronulla riots were a two sided effort...and I for one do not recall any deaths by beheading...

a riot is not an out and out WAR...a war that seems to be KILLING for the sake of KILLING..





Nothing good will come of making Muslims grovel to be allowed into the fold. They don't need to accept responsibility and they don't need to be ashamed. In fact, we need to strongly discourage that. The last thing we want to force is a feeling of connection between mainstream Muslims and extremists. They are unrelated and if we want it to stay that way, we should reinforce it at every opportunity.



condemning atrocities [like having a child hold up a severed head of a soldier]..

is not my IDEA OF GROVELING

I can only tell you as a CHristian..  if this was a Christian group..trying to control the world with FEAR and HATE.. I would be more than ashamed.. and yes I would feel the guilt..I would ask questions like where is this in the Bible we all are meant to follow..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:13am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:06am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am:
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.



is there anything on the outrage from the Muslim community in Australia on this one bobby??...



I think Muslims here are covering their eyes.



if AA is anything to go by.. as per usual its all our fault we should be more understanding and forgiving..

hummmmmm just like they do.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:15am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:02am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you mean Muslims with a public voice?



No, not particularly. I mean politicians and the media in general.

So by analogy, the Church doesn't need to speak out against the abusers in it, it's up to politicians and the media as the vast majority of catholics are not themselves abusers.


No, a more fitting analogy would be that the general Catholic population don't need to feel responsible or ashamed about the abusers.




but they do.... and that maybe is the difference...

people stood by and did nothing..

they didnt speak up they turned a "blind eye"

just like the good muslims are doing..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:15am
Who is AA?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:18am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
Who is AA?



BOBBY..

anne anthrax the mod...

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:21am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:18am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
Who is AA?



BOBBY..

anne anthrax the mod...


I wouldn't put words in the Mods mouth.

forgiven

namaste

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:22am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:13am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:06am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am:
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.



is there anything on the outrage from the Muslim community in Australia on this one bobby??...



I think Muslims here are covering their eyes.



if AA is anything to go by.. as per usual its all our fault we should be more understanding and forgiving..

hummmmmm just like they do.



If you're going to join the discussion, at least try to comprehend what I'm actually saying. Do you need me to dumb it down?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:23am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:07am:
And Soren...speaking out is not the same as feeling responsible or ashamed. It is important for Muslim leaders to speak out in condemnation, but not to appease the wider population. They should do it to reassure and guide the Muslims they lead.

So why talk about the 'Muslim community' if there is no such thing, only a bunch of unconnected individuals????

Typical identity politics. Either there is a 'Muslim community' that clearly produces enemies of this country - or there isn't, in which case why the hell are we giving them funding??
Please explain.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:27am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:22am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:13am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:06am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am:
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.



is there anything on the outrage from the Muslim community in Australia on this one bobby??...



I think Muslims here are covering their eyes.



if AA is anything to go by.. as per usual its all our fault we should be more understanding and forgiving..

hummmmmm just like they do.



If you're going to join the discussion, at least try to comprehend what I'm actually saying. Do you need me to dumb it down?



CHARMING for a mod....

so you have not a thing to say about the women being abused????


as that is what I was asking bobby about??>..


whats to DUMB DOWN?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:30am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:23am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:07am:
And Soren...speaking out is not the same as feeling responsible or ashamed. It is important for Muslim leaders to speak out in condemnation, but not to appease the wider population. They should do it to reassure and guide the Muslims they lead.

So why talk about the 'Muslim community' if there is no such thing, only a bunch of unconnected individuals????

Typical identity politics. Either there is a 'Muslim community' that clearly produces enemies of this country - or there isn't, in which case why the hell are we giving them funding??
Please explain.


Where did I say there was no such thing as a Muslim community?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:34am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:23am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:07am:
And Soren...speaking out is not the same as feeling responsible or ashamed. It is important for Muslim leaders to speak out in condemnation, but not to appease the wider population. They should do it to reassure and guide the Muslims they lead.

So why talk about the 'Muslim community' if there is no such thing, only a bunch of unconnected individuals????

Typical identity politics. Either there is a 'Muslim community' that clearly produces enemies of this country - or there isn't, in which case why the hell are we giving them funding??
Please explain.



she obviously hasnt heard of Dr Jamel Rifi...who is doing a great job of condemning what is happening.. and trying to change the SILENCE from the muslim community that usually follows terrorist attacks..


HIGH-PROFILE Muslim leader Dr Jamal Rifi says he will happily buy “a one-way ticket” for any Islamic radicals wanting to leave Australia.

Dr Rifi said the Muslim community in Sydney was deeply offended by comments made by Wissam Haddad, the manager of Al-Risalah Islamic Centre in Bankstown, who said he and his followers would “give up their passports” if they could leave without “being incriminated”.

he is doing more for the Muslim community than anyone else I have seen..... so far.

he is saying things that need to be said.. good on him

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:36am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:27am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:22am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:13am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:06am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:05am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:56am:
ISIS selling Yazidi women in Syria

By Raja Razek and Jason Hanna, CNN
August 30, 2014 -- Updated 2221 GMT (0621 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Quote:
CNN) -- Hundreds of Yazidi women abducted by ISIS have either been sold or handed out to members of the Sunni extremist group, according to an organization that monitors the crisis.

In the past few weeks, ISIS has "distributed" to its rank and file about 300 female members of the persecuted religious minority, says the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.

Those women were initially kidnapped in Iraq before being taken to Syria.

In ISIS' eyes, the girls and women are "captives of the spoils of war with the infidels," the Syria monitors said, claiming that some had converted to Islam so ISIS fighters can marry them.

SOHR says it could confirm at least 27 cases in which women were "sold and married" for about $1,000 each to ISIS militants in Aleppo and Raqqa suburbs and Al-Hassakah.



is there anything on the outrage from the Muslim community in Australia on this one bobby??...



I think Muslims here are covering their eyes.



if AA is anything to go by.. as per usual its all our fault we should be more understanding and forgiving..

hummmmmm just like they do.



If you're going to join the discussion, at least try to comprehend what I'm actually saying. Do you need me to dumb it down?



CHARMING for a mod....

so you have not a thing to say about the women being abused????


as that is what I was asking bobby about??>..


whats to DUMB DOWN?



Isis bad. Taking of women also bad. Selling women big bad. OK?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:37am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:34am:
he is doing more for the Muslim community than anyone else I have seen..... so far.



Well connected with the Muslim community, are you?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Shakey on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:40am
It's in the Australian Islamic Communities best interests to get their people under control because if a bomb goes off here the way Australians look at them will never be the same. They'll be on the outer far more than they are now and it will affect them socially and economically. People will not hire a plumber with an Arabic name or go to a Lebanese restaurant and so on.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:45am
If there is a Muslim community then why is it not seen to be doing much about the enemies of this country in its midst? Why is it most vocal about not being a community at all when it is shown to have many violent enemies of this country within it?
Why is it a community only for the benefits and never for the responsibility of being a community???

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:49am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:37am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:34am:
he is doing more for the Muslim community than anyone else I have seen..... so far.



Well connected with the Muslim community, are you?




sorry I bothered you. YOU  are one rude dude... I will comment on this thread... but not to yourself.. and i would appreciate you doing the same for me...I dont suffer rude people gladly.

and dont worry I havent forgotten where you are coming from.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am

Shakey wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:40am:
It's in the Australian Islamic Communities best interests to get their people under control because if a bomb goes off here the way Australians look at them will never be the same. They'll be on the outer far more than they are now and it will affect them socially and economically. People will not hire a plumber with an Arabic name or go to a Lebanese restaurant and so on.



I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:53am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:45am:
If there is a Muslim community then why is it not seen to be doing much about the enemies of this country in its midst? Why is it most vocal about not being a community at all when it is shown to have many violent enemies of this country within it?
Why is it a community only for the benefits and never for the responsibility of being a community???


I am sad that you have to resort to dishonesty instead of presenting a sound argument to support your view. There are many ways in which the Muslim community show responsibility for its members. They support their most needy with financial and housing assistance, for example.

What would you have them do about extremism other than promote moderation? It is the job of the police to monitor criminal activity. 


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Shakey on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:45am:
If there is a Muslim community then why is it not seen to be doing much about the enemies of this country in its midst? Why is it most vocal about not being a community at all when it is shown to have many violent enemies of this country within it?
Why is it a community only for the benefits and never for the responsibility of being a community???
Maybe we are wrong and there is no community at all. If the middle east is anything to go by then maybe it's just a big group of factions who don't like one another. Maybe their isn't any control in their communities. It was a BIG mistake bringing them here.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:55am

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:49am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:37am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:34am:
he is doing more for the Muslim community than anyone else I have seen..... so far.



Well connected with the Muslim community, are you?




sorry I bothered you. YOU  are one rude dude... I will comment on this thread... but not to yourself.. and i would appreciate you doing the same for me...I dont suffer rude people gladly.

and dont worry I havent forgotten where you are coming from.


That would be lovely.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:58am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?



I thought they were following the teachings in God's book?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:58am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?



well I guess BOTH.. how does that do it for you..?

if I could only tell them apart,just joking I think..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:59am
Extremist Muslims have rejected mainstream Islam and the Muslim community.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:12am

Quote:
Why should Australian Muslims feel responsible?


Because that is how you solve problems - by taking responsibility for them. If you leave it to the rest of the Australian society to take responsibility for it, we will, but don't expect it to reflect well on Muslims.


Quote:
Nothing good will come of making Muslims grovel to be allowed into the fold.


How about trying to stamp out Islamic extremism? Doing more to prevent Australian Muslims traveling overseas for jihad?


Quote:
They don't need to accept responsibility and they don't need to be ashamed. In fact, we need to strongly discourage that. The last thing we want to force is a feeling of connection between mainstream Muslims and extremists. They are unrelated and if we want it to stay that way, we should reinforce it at every opportunity.


So if Muslims feel ashamed of terrorists they will become terrorists?


Quote:
No, a more fitting analogy would be that the general Catholic population don't need to feel responsible or ashamed about the abusers.


I bet plenty of catholics do feel genuine shame about what happened, and also feel it is up to the catholic community to stamp it out. I am yet to see a catholic insist it is wrong to deride the church over pedophilia in case they start to feel a connection with the pedophiles.


Quote:
It is important for Muslim leaders to speak out in condemnation


There you go, that is taking responsibility. Not so hard is it? Now if we could just take it one step further to actually doing something about it.


Quote:
Typical identity politics. Either there is a 'Muslim community' that clearly produces enemies of this country - or there isn't, in which case why the hell are we giving them funding??


They are a community when they are a victim of unfair association with terrorists. But they are individuals when they are terrorists.


Quote:
HIGH-PROFILE Muslim leader Dr Jamal Rifi says he will happily buy “a one-way ticket” for any Islamic radicals wanting to leave Australia.


See, even he is funding terrorists.


Quote:
Well connected with the Muslim community, are you?


Odd thing to say for someone who insists it is not up to the Muslim community. Either the people who are well connected with the community take responsibility, or the rest of us step in and take responsibility.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:15am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:59am:
Extremist Muslims have rejected mainstream Islam and the Muslim community.


Nonsense Annie - they are getting a wink and a nod from "mainstream islam", and I can prove it:

- if mainstream leaders declare their condemnation but don't follow to the letter the "correct" condemnation script  - they are practically cheering the terrorists on.

- if mainsteam leaders condemn terrorists "properly", its merely a PR stunt, designed to pull the wool over Australia's eyes, in order to "bide their time" (FD's words) before the caliphate-takeover plan is ready.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:21am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?



I thought they were following the teachings in God's book?



God wrote this book & you have to follow it no matter how barbaric & insane it is.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:22am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:12am:
How about trying to stamp out Islamic extremism? Doing more to prevent Australian Muslims traveling overseas for jihad?


Gee thats meaningful FD - what exactly is your measure?

Whats the "acceptable" number of jihadists going over before we declare its "doing enough"? Is there going to be a point in which we give muslim leaders a pat on the back for the number of people they have prevented going over?


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:24am
well said FD..

.some thrive on victimhood...if you treated us better or didnt expect too much from us.. thing would be ok.. yep thats how I see it..

its all about us accepting them... they dont have to accept us or our ways..

you are right in a way about paying their fares one way to fight the good fight...

but what happens when they stay here.. hating everything within reach.. do they not expand their hatred and turn it inwards.towards our country

.. isnt this maybe what groups like ISIS want..they thrive on people being singled out....

in this case preventing someone who by a technicality hasnt broken any law...

from travelling overseas..

to me thats a catch 22.... it solves nothing and causes the hate to simmer...

this isnt like saving a drug addict from himself..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:15am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:59am:
Extremist Muslims have rejected mainstream Islam and the Muslim community.


Nonsense Annie - they are getting a wink and a nod from "mainstream islam", and I can prove it:

- if mainstream leaders declare their condemnation but don't follow to the letter the "correct" condemnation script  - they are practically cheering the terrorists on.

- if mainsteam leaders condemn terrorists "properly", its merely a PR stunt, designed to pull the wool over Australia's eyes, in order to "bide their time" (FD's words) before the caliphate-takeover plan is ready.


Does FD's dissecting of posts irritate you? I refuse to engage with him when he does it. It removes all context and practically becomes an argument on semantics. You should do the same. FD thrives on engagement about Islam with you in particular because you are the only Muslim here who is a match in intelligent debate since Abu left, so you can set the bar. Give him a time out when he misbehaves.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:35am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:22am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:12am:
How about trying to stamp out Islamic extremism? Doing more to prevent Australian Muslims traveling overseas for jihad?


Gee thats meaningful FD - what exactly is your measure?

Whats the "acceptable" number of jihadists going over before we declare its "doing enough"? Is there going to be a point in which we give muslim leaders a pat on the back for the number of people they have prevented going over?



you sound quite sarcastic...so lets do bugger all is that what you are saying??>.

Muslim leaders seem to have a huge impact on what young muslims learn??..or am I mistaken?..

so for those who care I have never been in a muslim school...but we have seen the book shops that spread the hate word so we know its out there for those that want it..

I think its a sad fact of life if those who believe it is wrong...and that goes for all walks of life..

and they do not speak up...then they are no better than the ones that go about wrecking the world for wreckings sake..

does anyone really know what ISIS want from Syria??.. have they actually spelt it out?

they think killing someone who has nothing to do with their war will stop any outside interference...

how wrong they are.....

but to what end is this all about Gandalf.

is it about killing all Christians??????...

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:41am

Quote:
Gee thats meaningful FD - what exactly is your measure?


100


Quote:
Whats the "acceptable" number of jihadists going over before we declare its "doing enough"?


This isn't an exam Gandalf. But if you insist, the correct answer is zero.


Quote:
Is there going to be a point in which we give muslim leaders a pat on the back for the number of people they have prevented going over?


If 100 is a good outcome, then the problem is far worse than we thought.


Quote:
but what happens when they stay here.. hating everything within reach.. do they not expand their hatred and turn it inwards.towards our country


If they are our citizens, it is our responsibility to deal with them.


Quote:
in this case preventing someone who by a technicality hasnt broken any law...
from travelling overseas..
to me thats a catch 22.... it solves nothing and causes the hate to simmer...


It's better than letting them rape and pillage their way across the middle east. If every country reigned in their Muslims, ISIS would not have as many fighters. We are not going to escape fallout from this just because it is happening in the middle east.


Quote:
Does FD's dissecting of posts irritate you? I refuse to engage with him when he does it.


Yes much better to wave your arms in the air and sign kumbayah.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:53am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:41am:
If they are our citizens, it is our responsibility to deal with them



how would you deal with them?
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:41am:
It's better than letting them rape and pillage their way across the middle east. If every country reigned in their Muslims, ISIS would not have as many fighters. We are not going to escape fallout from this just because it is happening in the middle east.




how do you know when a person is a violent jihadist?

are you suggesting no muslims be allowed to travel overseas???????..

how do you tell a goody from a baddie ??.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:01am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:53am:
I am sad that you have to resort to dishonesty instead of presenting a sound argument to support your view. There are many ways in which the Muslim community show responsibility for its members. They support their most needy with financial and housing assistance, for example.

What would you have them do about extremism other than promote moderation? It is the job of the police to monitor criminal activity. 

This is an entirely dishonest stance which has been adopted by almost all Muslims.

Muslims should stamp out the islamists and the extremists NOT for Abbott's sake but for Islam's sake. Islam is in their hands and for them and you to say that they are not responsible for the way Islam is is dishonest and cowardly.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:07am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:41am:
This isn't an exam Gandalf. But if you insist, the correct answer is zero.


Sometimes a question is just a question FD. But by all means, if you prefer not to clarify what is a completely arbitrary and meaningless measure, then don't bring it up in the first place  :)

So are you saying that unless there are zero of the half million Australian muslims going to an overseas conflict, the Australian muslim community has failed and must be pilloried?

Also, a point of clarification, of those 100 or so over there, not all are known to be fighting with islamists - many are doing humanitarian work with refugees across the borders.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:11am

Quote:
Sometimes a question is just a question FD. But by all means, if you prefer not to clarify what is a completely arbitrary and meaningless measure, then don't bring it up in the first place


The number of Muslims fighting for terrorists overseas is hardly arbitrary and meaningless. And it was you who demanded a measurement, not me.


Quote:
So are you saying that unless there are zero of the half million Australian muslims going to an overseas conflict, the Australian muslim community has failed and must be pilloried?


No. Like I said, this is not an exam. The more Muslims themselves take responsibility for Islamic extremism, the less they will be blamed and pilloried, and the less that the broader non-Muslim community will have to do the job for them.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:13am
Why are Muslims beheading each other? Which side is right, the beheaders or the beheadees? Which side is doing Allah's work? Or can both sides be wrong? Both right?
Personally, I ordered a cheeseburger.
Please explain.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:29am

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:11am:
The number of Muslims fighting for terrorists overseas is hardly arbitrary and meaningless. And it was you who demanded a measurement, not me.


The statement "doing more" by definition demands a measurement. If you never wanted to define what that means, why bring it up?


freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:11am:
Quote:
So are you saying that unless there are zero of the half million Australian muslims going to an overseas conflict, the Australian muslim community has failed and must be pilloried?


No.



I'm confused FD - so zero is not the right answer after all?


freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:11am:
The more Muslims themselves take responsibility for Islamic extremism, the less they will be blamed and pilloried


"The more"? "The less"? - Oh dear, I can feel more exam questions coming on here FD. At what point do you determine that the muslims are doing enough? You already said zero is not the answer, but 100 is too much. So what is it - 99? 1? How do you know the muslims are not doing all they can already? By your non-existent knowledge of what goes on in the Australian muslim community?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:42am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:01am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:53am:
I am sad that you have to resort to dishonesty instead of presenting a sound argument to support your view. There are many ways in which the Muslim community show responsibility for its members. They support their most needy with financial and housing assistance, for example.

What would you have them do about extremism other than promote moderation? It is the job of the police to monitor criminal activity. 

This is an entirely dishonest stance which has been adopted by almost all Muslims.

Muslims should stamp out the islamists and the extremists NOT for Abbott's sake but for Islam's sake. Islam is in their hands and for them and you to say that they are not responsible for the way Islam is is dishonest and cowardly.


Individual Muslims should be held accountable only for how they themselves practice.




Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:45am
Gandy, is your Islam the true one or Sharouf's Islam? Both true?
How can one decide? Ask the politicians and the media? Because one cannot ask Muslims as they are not responsible for Islam. Politicians, the media, the police, non-muslims are responsible for the way Islam is.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:47am
You're a right wing Skando, Soren. Nobody blames you for Mangs or Breivik.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:48am
The vast majority of muslims reject Sharouf's version - thats the only thing that should matter S.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:57am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:48am:
The vast majority of muslims reject Sharouf's version - thats the only thing that should matter S.

Historically his Islam has been dominant, not yours. He acts more like Muhammed than you.
He wants a caliphate like you, he wants sharia like you, he prefers to live an islamic life like you. He is not afraid of his convictions, unlike you. He has taken his convictions to their obvious, logical conclusion.
I think that is the essential difference between the tough eggs and timid majority.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:58am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:13am:
Why are Muslims beheading each other? Which side is right, the beheaders or the beheadees? Which side is doing Allah's work? Or can both sides be wrong? Both right?
Personally, I ordered a cheeseburger.
Please explain.



the very name ISIS ...ISLAMIC STATE OF IRAQ.

cant get away from that....

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/the-islamic-state-and-its-terrorism-from-syria-to-iraq-is-growing/story-fnh81ifq-1227041715939


middle east
LATEST IN MIDDLE EAST

1 DAY AGO AUGUST 30, 2014 12:00AM

ISIS Tactics Online Show High Level of Social Media Skill
THE area now under the control of the Islamic State is so vast it has already begun to mark out and control its proposed caliphate. It runs from the southern border of Turkey to the north-eastern gates of Baghdad.
The United States — and perhaps, soon, Australia and a handful of other airborne allies — are in the invidious position of trying to bomb what is not so much a scrupulously organised force, but an idea, from existence.
The ISIS fighters, according to international observers who are mapping the changing fronts of the war on a daily basis, do not have a grounded physical presence over the entire extensive patch of desert they now dominate.

But for those ordinary citizens who live in these places, they know who is in charge.
As Afghanistan’s Taliban and the subsequent insurgency showed, creating a state of absolute fear assures absolute population loyalty, making the winning of hearts and minds — a most valuable commodity in any war — difficult to buy at any price.
ISIS fighters have full control of the northern Syrian city of Raqqa, the first city to fall to the terror state, and from where Australian terrorist Khaled Sharrouf posted images of his seven-year-old son holding a man’s severed head.


to me its a monster that is growing day by day inch by inch...does anyone think when they over run Iraq Syria that that will be the end of their lust for POWER???

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:07pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:47am:
You're a right wing Skando, Soren. Nobody blames you for Mangs or Breivik.

190,000 Muslims have been killed by other Muslims in Syria in the last two years. Thousands of women have been raped and killed and sold into slavery by Muslims.
And you will equate all that with a single, completely atypical crime by a Norwegian, just because i point to islam as the ideology behind bloody jihad.





Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:07pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?



I thought they were following the teachings in God's book?



God wrote this book & you have to follow it no matter how barbaric & insane it is.



Notice how Gandalf ignored my statement?


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:48am:
The vast majority of muslims reject Sharouf's version - thats the only thing that should matter S.



tell that to the family of the soldier whos head is on a fence..

do you really expect them to believe that..?

what evidence do you have that the VAST MAJORITY condemn him.... ::) ::)

I havent heard of any outcry on twitter or facebook..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?



I thought they were following the teachings in God's book?



God wrote this book & you have to follow it no matter how barbaric & insane it is.



Notice how Gandalf ignored my statement?



I have noticed he only answers a question  with another question....or carefully plays with a word like measure.... well is it Zero or 100..  as if thats the real point...you have to admit bobby./. you can always tell when someone is losing the arguement..

in this case its everyones fault bar the silent muslim...

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:15pm

Quote:
The statement "doing more" by definition demands a measurement. If you never wanted to define what that means, why bring it up?


I thought it was fairly obvious what it meant. It doesn't demand anything. You do.


Quote:
The vast majority of muslims reject Sharouf's version - thats the only thing that should matter S.


The vast majority also reject your version Gandalf. Does that matter? They all have their own slightly different version of head hacking utopia.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:18pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:07pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:47am:
You're a right wing Skando, Soren. Nobody blames you for Mangs or Breivik.

190,000 Muslims have been killed by other Muslims in Syria in the last two years. Thousands of women have been raped and killed and sold into slavery by Muslims.
And you will equate all that with a single, completely atypical crime by a Norwegian, just because i point to islam as the ideology behind bloody jihad.


There was a Swede in there too, you know.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:22pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:47am:
You're a right wing Skando, Soren. Nobody blames you for Mangs or Breivik.

Mangs didn't act in the name of Carl Gustaf. Nor Breivik in the name of Harald. Neither acted in the name of any religion. Islamists act in the name of Allah and for the caliphate.
There is no parallel between Mangs, Breivik and Islamist jihad.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:25pm
head hacking utopia.


Well said FD.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:55pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:15pm:
I thought it was fairly obvious what it meant. It doesn't demand anything. You do.


No actually its not obvious at all FD, and it demands a measurement - by your own definition.

You start with the premise that the muslim community is not doing enough - based not on any knowledge of what the muslim community is actually doing, but only on the claim that 100 muslims are engaging in jihad in the ME. And yet while you use the number of jihadists as the sole criteria for what constitutes "not doing enough" - you refuse to explain what the figure would need to go down to before it *WAS* doing enough.

Unless you can come up with another (more sensible) justification for your claim that the muslim community needs to "do more", then I'm afraid you are stuck with requiring some sort of measurement to explain why 100 jihadists represents "not doing enough".

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:56pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:57am:
He wants a caliphate like you


Why do you keep peddling this crap?

Its about the 5th time you've said it just this week. I've literally no idea where you got this from.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:01pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:56pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:57am:
He wants a caliphate like you


Why do you keep peddling this crap?

Its about the 5th time you've said it just this week. I've literally no idea where you got this from.



You are a devout Muslim. The caliphate is the desired Islamic form of government. As a devout Muslim you cannot be against the idea of the establishment of a caliphate just as you cannot be against jihad and sharia. They are integral parts of your religious ideology.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:55pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:15pm:
I thought it was fairly obvious what it meant. It doesn't demand anything. You do.


No actually its not obvious at all FD, and it demands a measurement - by your own definition.

You start with the premise that the muslim community is not doing enough - based not on any knowledge of what the muslim community is actually doing, but only on the claim that 100 muslims are engaging in jihad in the ME. And yet while you use the number of jihadists as the sole criteria for what constitutes "not doing enough" - you refuse to explain what the figure would need to go down to before it *WAS* doing enough.

Unless you can come up with another (more sensible) justification for your claim that the muslim community needs to "do more", then I'm afraid you are stuck with requiring some sort of measurement to explain why 100 jihadists represents "not doing enough".


No I'm not. They need to do more. They are so far from enough that trying to satisfy you with a definition would trivialise how poorly the Muslim community is doing at this.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:35pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:01pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:56pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:57am:
He wants a caliphate like you


Why do you keep peddling this crap?

Its about the 5th time you've said it just this week. I've literally no idea where you got this from.



You are a devout Muslim. The caliphate is the desired Islamic form of government. As a devout Muslim you cannot be against the idea of the establishment of a caliphate just as you cannot be against jihad and sharia. They are integral parts of your religious ideology.


Exactly. Just don’t tell them that, as a devout Protestant Anglophile, your own favoured form of government is the head-hacking "protectorate" of Oliver Cromwell.

Always, absolutely, never ever, eh?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:37pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:31pm:
No I'm not. They need to do more. They are so far from enough


OK lets dumb it down for you.

"need to do more...", "so far from enough..."  - based on what?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:38pm
BTW Gandalf, how do you know they are doing aid work rather than fighting for ISIS? Is it because they put "helping refugees" on their departure card rather than "slaughtering the infidel"?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:39pm

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:50am:
I havent looked on them the same since the child swinging the severed head....


"them" as in muslims, or mentally ill psychopaths?



I thought they were following the teachings in God's book?



God wrote this book & you have to follow it no matter how barbaric & insane it is.



Notice how Gandalf ignored my statement?



I have noticed he only answers a question  with another question....or carefully plays with a word like measure.... well is it Zero or 100..  as if thats the real point..


Sounds like he’s learnt from the master.

Sometimes a question is just a question, dear.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:39pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:01pm:
As a devout Muslim you cannot be against the idea of the establishment of a caliphate just as you cannot be against jihad and sharia.


I can and I am.

How about you stop dictating what are and what are not my beliefs "as a devout muslim"?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:40pm
I agree. Gandalf is hardly devout.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:44pm
BTW, in which Islamic doctrine does it say muslims must be in favour of the caliphate?

Does Soren realise that the Caliphate came after islamic law was handed down?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 2:11pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:44pm:
BTW, in which Islamic doctrine does it say muslims must be in favour of the caliphate?

Does Soren realise that the Caliphate came after islamic law was handed down?


The old boy’s still wrestling with how he can agree completely with Anders Breivik, but distance himself as much as possible.

It’s a work in progress that’s been going on for at least as long as the old boy’s Birdy Num Num posts. We’ve had exactly this discussion quite a few times, and the old boy carries on as if it’s the first time. The confected outrage, the sanctimonious moralizing, the complete lack of reflection or self awareness.

The trick in acting, you see, is to appear as if the words have just come to you, even though you’ve rehearsed them over and over again.

Always, absolutely, never ever. The "whirlwind of passion" comes and goes, but one thing is certain - the lines never change.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 3:10pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 12:22pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 11:47am:
You're a right wing Skando, Soren. Nobody blames you for Mangs or Breivik.

Mangs didn't act in the name of Carl Gustaf. Nor Breivik in the name of Harald. Neither acted in the name of any religion. Islamists act in the name of Allah and for the caliphate.
There is no parallel between Mangs, Breivik and Islamist jihad.



how about this paring
*
There are no differences between Islam and Nazism they are both totalitarian regimes/religions and hate the Jewish, suppress gay rights to the point where you could be killed for it and women are just baby machines, they also think the are superior to others races. *


and feel the need for TOTAL CONTROL...and like any addict.. always looking for their next fix....

its odd how muslims find the need to go and live in a predominantly  Christian country rather than in  another Muslim country....

maybe the weather ::) ::).

it cant be fear as they keep telling us we have nothing to fear from Islam..

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:01pm
I agree, dear. It’s probably the weather that makes Malaysia and Indonesia the biggest tourist destinations for Australian holiday makers too.

Or the weather that gives these countries sizeable populations of Christians and Buddhists, or makes their politicians come on Lateline and condemn ISIS et al, promise to work with Australia on bi-lateral security and trade agreements, and prioritize these regional partnerships over the military objectives of TOTAL CONTROL favoured by former Western-backed Muslim generals like Suharto.

In fact, it must be the weather that gives this region one of the biggest Muslim populations, with Indonesia the biggest Muslim country in the world. You blame the weather?

We blame Islam, dear.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm
The majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran) and stoning people to death for adultery.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by red baron on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:36pm
What a load of cobblers!

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:43pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:35pm:
Just don’t tell them that, as a devout Protestant Anglophile, your own favoured form of government is the head-hacking "protectorate" of Oliver Cromwell.

Always, absolutely, never ever, eh?



You are an absolute idiot. Is Elizabeth II an heir and successor to Cromwell, you silly PB? Does the constitution of Australia make any reference to Cromwell's England?
Stupidity is the only thing where you are never out of your depth.






Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:49pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
The majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran) and stoning people to death for adultery.



I didnt know that.. only women I take it?..

it is a well know fact only women can commit adultery... ::) ::)..not quite sure how they come to that conclusion.. but it is a FACT

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:51pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
he majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran)


No. It. Is. Not

Seriously, how many times do you have to be told??

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:51pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
he majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran)


No. It. Is. Not

Seriously, how many times do you have to be told??

Which one of these is a lie?

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."   

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66. 


From the Hadith:

The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith.  According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?'  Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.'  Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.'  Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"

Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?"  Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress.  (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes.  He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."  (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:10pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
The majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran) and stoning people to death for adultery.



red baron wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:36pm:
What a load of cobblers!




http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:21pm

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
The majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran) and stoning people to death for adultery.



I didnt know that.. only women I take it?..

it is a well know fact only women can commit adultery... ::) ::)..not quite sure how they come to that conclusion.. but it is a FACT


Islam is very egalitarian in handing out the death penalty. It applies to both men and women.


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:51pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
he majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran)


No. It. Is. Not

Seriously, how many times do you have to be told??


Yes. It. Is. We are even discussing the specific verse on the Islam board.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:26pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:00pm:
Which one of these is a lie?


The bit about it being a license to execute apostates.

Verses 4:88-91 are related to dealing with internal dissidents who are waging open war against the muslim community. The phrase "turn away" translates more correctly to "create emnity", or in the standard Yusuf Ali version, "turn renegade".

Understanding the true meaning is not difficult if you bother to read the following verse:

"...if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."

Perfectly consistent with other Quranic verses instructing muslims to fight only when attacked, and to always make peace when offered it.

What the Quran actually says in relation to apostasy:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."
18:29

upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account.
13:40

There is no compulsion in the religion; right-mindedness has already been evidently (distinct) from misguidance.
2:256

Very clear, no ambiguation at all - yet you won't see Soren ever quoting it.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yasser CrackaFat on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:29pm
Incorrect, I suggest you do some more study if you want to quote the Qur'an in context.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:31pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 1:35pm:
Just don’t tell them that, as a devout Protestant Anglophile, your own favoured form of government is the head-hacking "protectorate" of Oliver Cromwell.

Always, absolutely, never ever, eh?



You are an absolute idiot. Is Elizabeth II an heir and successor to Cromwell, you silly PB? Does the constitution of Australia make any reference to Cromwell's England?
Stupidity is the only thing where you are never out of your depth.


Excellent questions, OB. Does the constitution of ISIS make any reference to Malaysia? Is El Malaki the heir and successor to the Ottoman House of Osman?

Questions, questions.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:32pm
Has anyone heard of the White Helmets? They're incredibly brave Syrian civilians who rescue people. They have a policy of no discrimination over race or religion. Whenever there is a bombing or a massacre, they rush out and assist where they can. It's a very uplifting story.

I hope stories of heroes like these get some air time here - for balance if nothing else.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:35pm

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:10pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
The majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran) and stoning people to death for adultery.



red baron wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:36pm:
What a load of cobblers!




http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/


Don’t post your Pew Survey propaganda here, old boy. FD won’t have it.

Something tells me we’re going to have some fun picking through the results over the next few days though.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Annie Anthrax on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:39pm
Of those who responded in the affirmative for wanting SHariah law, this is the  percentage of people who think it should apply to Muslims or the entire pop.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:51pm
Now now, Annie, this is just the sort of thing FD wants to avoid - a discussion of this apologetic Pew Forum nonsense.

The survey also differentiated between different forms of Sharia law - such as civil and criminal law. Most Muslims surveyed don’t want a bar of the Saudi-style amputations, etc, instead preferring Sharia courts to be for family and property settlement cases.

FD only mentions the Pew forum in relation to Malaysian apostacy. He’d prefer you didn’t mention the rest of the results.

Lets just keep this between the two of us, okay?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Aug 31st, 2014 at 6:34pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:21pm:

cods wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
The majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran) and stoning people to death for adultery.



I didnt know that.. only women I take it?..

it is a well know fact only women can commit adultery... ::) ::)..not quite sure how they come to that conclusion.. but it is a FACT


Islam is very egalitarian in handing out the death penalty. It applies to both men and women.



I have never seen pictures of  a male being stoned to death because of committing adultery






polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:51pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 4:18pm:
he majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy (which is straight from the Koran)


No. It. Is. Not

Seriously, how many times do you have to be told??


Yes. It. Is. We are even discussing the specific verse on the Islam board.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 6:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:26pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:00pm:
Which one of these is a lie?


The bit about it being a license to execute apostates.

Verses 4:88-91 are related to dealing with internal dissidents who are waging open war against the muslim community. The phrase "turn away" translates more correctly to "create emnity", or in the standard Yusuf Ali version, "turn renegade".

Understanding the true meaning is not difficult if you bother to read the following verse:

"...if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."

Perfectly consistent with other Quranic verses instructing muslims to fight only when attacked, and to always make peace when offered it.

What the Quran actually says in relation to apostasy:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."
18:29

upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account.
13:40

There is no compulsion in the religion; right-mindedness has already been evidently (distinct) from misguidance.
2:256

Very clear, no ambiguation at all - yet you won't see Soren ever quoting it.


Crap. 88 and 89 say kill apostates. 90 and 91 say do not pursue them if they escape to a country with which you have a treaty or that could defeat you at war.


Quote:
Something tells me we’re going to have some fun picking through the results over the next few days though.


Karnal, have you forgotten the last time we didcated 100 or so pages to doing just that? About a dozen of them were dedicated to getting Gandalf to grasp the maths.


Quote:
Of those who responded in the affirmative for wanting SHariah law, this is the  percentage of people who think it should apply to Muslims or the entire pop.


Annie, how much sense does it make for the law to execute apostates to apply only to non-Muslims?


Quote:
The survey also differentiated between different forms of Sharia law - such as civil and criminal law. Most Muslims surveyed don’t want a bar of the Saudi-style amputations, etc, instead preferring Sharia courts to be for family and property settlement cases.


Karnal, the survey specifically asked about executing apostates. The majority of Malaysian Muslims support it.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:26pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 6:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:26pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:00pm:
Which one of these is a lie?


The bit about it being a license to execute apostates.

Verses 4:88-91 are related to dealing with internal dissidents who are waging open war against the muslim community. The phrase "turn away" translates more correctly to "create emnity", or in the standard Yusuf Ali version, "turn renegade".

Understanding the true meaning is not difficult if you bother to read the following verse:

"...if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."

Perfectly consistent with other Quranic verses instructing muslims to fight only when attacked, and to always make peace when offered it.

What the Quran actually says in relation to apostasy:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."
18:29

upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account.
13:40

There is no compulsion in the religion; right-mindedness has already been evidently (distinct) from misguidance.
2:256

Very clear, no ambiguation at all - yet you won't see Soren ever quoting it.


Crap. 88 and 89 say kill apostates. 90 and 91 say do not pursue them if they escape to a country with which you have a treaty or that could defeat you at war.


Quote:
Something tells me we’re going to have some fun picking through the results over the next few days though.


Karnal, have you forgotten the last time we didcated 100 or so pages to doing just that? About a dozen of them were dedicated to getting Gandalf to grasp the maths.

[quote]Of those who responded in the affirmative for wanting SHariah law, this is the  percentage of people who think it should apply to Muslims or the entire pop.


Annie, how much sense does it make for the law to execute apostates to apply only to non-Muslims?


Quote:
The survey also differentiated between different forms of Sharia law - such as civil and criminal law. Most Muslims surveyed don’t want a bar of the Saudi-style amputations, etc, instead preferring Sharia courts to be for family and property settlement cases.


Karnal, the survey specifically asked about executing apostates. The majority of Malaysian Muslims support it.[/quote]

What did I tell you, Annie? FD won’t even mention "Pew" by name.

No Pew jokes here, FD. Something tells me we’re going to read a lot more of this research.

You can blame the old boy for that.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:29pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 6:43pm:
Crap. 88 and 89 say kill apostates. 90 and 91 say do not pursue them if they escape to a country with which you have a treaty or that could defeat you at war.


It would help if you had some idea about which verses we are talking about FD (ie not 4:88)

4:89 gives permission to fight the disbelievers who initiate hostilities against the muslims.

4:90 specifices *TWO* exceptions: 1. those who take refuge with a third party with whom you have a treaty with, and 2. those " who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people." - note the words "come to you" - putting to bed your little lie just now that only those who flee are to be spared.

4:91 reemphasises the limitations on 4:89:

if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them.

- note again - withdrawal is not a prerequisite - they merely need to offer peace, or even just restrain themselves - and they are free to live amongst the muslims. Reasonable no?

Proof that disbelievers can be part of islamic society:

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
60:8



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:44pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?


There are a few references to "the traveler", and to include him in a range of charitable deeds.

I believe there is also a couple of ahadith about being generous to the "wayfarer" as a good deed.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:46pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 6:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:26pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:00pm:
Which one of these is a lie?


The bit about it being a license to execute apostates.

Verses 4:88-91 are related to dealing with internal dissidents who are waging open war against the muslim community. The phrase "turn away" translates more correctly to "create emnity", or in the standard Yusuf Ali version, "turn renegade".

Understanding the true meaning is not difficult if you bother to read the following verse:

"...if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."

Perfectly consistent with other Quranic verses instructing muslims to fight only when attacked, and to always make peace when offered it.

What the Quran actually says in relation to apostasy:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."
18:29

upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account.
13:40

There is no compulsion in the religion; right-mindedness has already been evidently (distinct) from misguidance.
2:256

Very clear, no ambiguation at all - yet you won't see Soren ever quoting it.


Crap. 88 and 89 say kill apostates. 90 and 91 say do not pursue them if they escape to a country with which you have a treaty or that could defeat you at war.


Quote:
Something tells me we’re going to have some fun picking through the results over the next few days though.


Karnal, have you forgotten the last time we didcated 100 or so pages to doing just that? About a dozen of them were dedicated to getting Gandalf to grasp the maths.

[quote]Of those who responded in the affirmative for wanting SHariah law, this is the  percentage of people who think it should apply to Muslims or the entire pop.


Annie, how much sense does it make for the law to execute apostates to apply only to non-Muslims?

[quote]The survey also differentiated between different forms of Sharia law - such as civil and criminal law. Most Muslims surveyed don’t want a bar of the Saudi-style amputations, etc, instead preferring Sharia courts to be for family and property settlement cases.


Karnal, the survey specifically asked about executing apostates. The majority of Malaysian Muslims support it.[/quote]

What did I tell you, Annie? FD won’t even mention "Pew" by name.

No Pew jokes here, FD. Something tells me we’re going to read a lot more of this research.

You can blame the old boy for that.
[/quote]

Karnal I have bumped every thread I can find with discussion of the Pew survey in the opening post. Let me know if I missed any. There are also many (including the original) in which it was introduced part way through the thread, like the spineless apologetics thread. Most of the ones I bumped have links in the opening post to the earlier discussion. Read all you want. You no longer need to constantly accuse me of trying to hide this from you.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:54pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:46pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 6:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:26pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:00pm:
Which one of these is a lie?


The bit about it being a license to execute apostates.

Verses 4:88-91 are related to dealing with internal dissidents who are waging open war against the muslim community. The phrase "turn away" translates more correctly to "create emnity", or in the standard Yusuf Ali version, "turn renegade".

Understanding the true meaning is not difficult if you bother to read the following verse:

"...if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."

Perfectly consistent with other Quranic verses instructing muslims to fight only when attacked, and to always make peace when offered it.

What the Quran actually says in relation to apostasy:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."
18:29

upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account.
13:40

There is no compulsion in the religion; right-mindedness has already been evidently (distinct) from misguidance.
2:256

Very clear, no ambiguation at all - yet you won't see Soren ever quoting it.


Crap. 88 and 89 say kill apostates. 90 and 91 say do not pursue them if they escape to a country with which you have a treaty or that could defeat you at war.


Quote:
Something tells me we’re going to have some fun picking through the results over the next few days though.


Karnal, have you forgotten the last time we didcated 100 or so pages to doing just that? About a dozen of them were dedicated to getting Gandalf to grasp the maths.

[quote]Of those who responded in the affirmative for wanting SHariah law, this is the  percentage of people who think it should apply to Muslims or the entire pop.


Annie, how much sense does it make for the law to execute apostates to apply only to non-Muslims?

[quote]The survey also differentiated between different forms of Sharia law - such as civil and criminal law. Most Muslims surveyed don’t want a bar of the Saudi-style amputations, etc, instead preferring Sharia courts to be for family and property settlement cases.


Karnal, the survey specifically asked about executing apostates. The majority of Malaysian Muslims support it.


What did I tell you, Annie? FD won’t even mention "Pew" by name.

No Pew jokes here, FD. Something tells me we’re going to read a lot more of this research.

You can blame the old boy for that.
[/quote]

Karnal I have bumped every thread I can find with discussion of the Pew survey in the opening post. Let me know if I missed any. There are also many (including the original) in which it was introduced part way through the thread, like the spineless apologetics thread. Most of the ones I bumped have links in the opening post to the earlier discussion. Read all you want. You no longer need to constantly accuse me of trying to hide this from you.[/quote]

Now now, FD, don’t you worry about a thing. I think the best course of action is to spend a few days reviewing your reasearch, and coming back and having a little chat when we’re done.

You wouldn’t object to that, would you?


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:14pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?

As long as they are the right kind of musualman. Otherwise beheading is also an option.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:10am

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?

As long as they are the right kind of musualman. Otherwise beheading is also an option.


You’ve been reading Freud on Man’s Soul again, haven’t you.

Who’s a clever boy then?

Sometimes an old boy is just an old boy.




Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Sir Bobby on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:21am

Karnal wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:10am:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?

As long as they are the right kind of musualman. Otherwise beheading is also an option.


You’ve been reading Freud on Man’s Soul again, haven’t you.

Who’s a clever boy then?

Sometimes an old boy is just an old boy.



These Muslims will do whatever their old book tells them - they worry me.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Sep 1st, 2014 at 9:16am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:21am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:10am:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?

As long as they are the right kind of musualman. Otherwise beheading is also an option.


You’ve been reading Freud on Man’s Soul again, haven’t you.

Who’s a clever boy then?

Sometimes an old boy is just an old boy.



These Muslims will do whatever their old book tells them - they worry me.



what you mean bobby is..

WHAT THEIR CURRENT INTERPRETATION OF THE BOOK IS..

or maybe who is spouting THEIR version of the book.... in dark corners of the world..


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 1st, 2014 at 9:50am
[url][/url]
Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 5:32pm:
Has anyone heard of the White Helmets? They're incredibly brave Syrian civilians who rescue people. They have a policy of no discrimination over race or religion. Whenever there is a bombing or a massacre, they rush out and assist where they can. It's a very uplifting story.

I hope stories of heroes like these get some air time here - for balance if nothing else.

https://www.whitehelmets.org/

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 1st, 2014 at 1:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:21am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:10am:

Soren wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Doesn’t the Quran also make the recommendation to treat strangers as friends, and welcome them as guests?

As long as they are the right kind of musualman. Otherwise beheading is also an option.


You’ve been reading Freud on Man’s Soul again, haven’t you.

Who’s a clever boy then?

Sometimes an old boy is just an old boy.



These Muslims will do whatever their old book tells them - they worry me.


Yeah - funny how their old book tells them suicide bombings and random beheadings are haram.

These Muslims are doing whatever they want in spite of their old book - just as Christians in the West banging on about killing them all and letting Gud sort it out are going against their old book.

It's the one thing we all have in common: no one pays any attention to the books.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by it_is_the_light on Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:39pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grH2stopPPw

ISIL completely fabricated enemy by US: Former CIA contractor

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/28/376913/isil-completely-fabricated-enemy-by-us/

ISIL completely fabricated enemy by US: Former CIA contractor



Former CIA contractor Steven Kelley says that the ISIL terrorist group is a completely fabricated enemy created and funded by the United States.

“This is a completely fabricated enemy,” he said in a phone interview with Press TV from Anaheim, California on Thursday.

“The funding is completely from the United States and its allies and for people to think that this enemy is something that needs to be attacked in Syria or Iraq is a farce because obviously this is something that we create it, we control and only now it has become inconvenient for us to attack this group as a legitimate enemy,” Kelley added.

He made the remarks as US President Barack Obama is under pressure to seek congressional approval before expanding Washington’s military air campaign against ISIL targets from Iraq into neighboring Syria.

The Pentagon has already launched at least 100 airstrikes on ISIL positions in northern Iraq since Obama authorized the use of force against the terrorist group earlier this month.

The White House insists it does not need explicit congressional authorization for those operations because they are intended to protect American personnel and interests inside the Arab country.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest said Monday that Obama “will not hesitate to use his authority” to keep Americans safe, but added that the president was “committed to coordinating and consulting with Congress” on a decision to hit ISIL targets in Syria.

“If you want to get to the root of the problem and remove this organization, the first thing they need to do is to remove the funding and take care of entities responsible for the creation of this group,” Kelley said.

“I believe that this ISIS group would probably go away, would be easily defeated by the armies of [Syrian President] Bashar Assad,” he said.

AGB/AGB

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by buzzanddidj on Sep 4th, 2014 at 3:04pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 24th, 2014 at 10:23am:
"ISIS has nothing to do with Islam"
Yasmina Haifi





NO-ONE would seriously dispute THAT bit






Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Sep 4th, 2014 at 6:50pm
You don't see any similarities between ISIS and what Muhammed did?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 4th, 2014 at 8:04pm
better introduce him to the wiki FD.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:07pm
Do you see any similarities Gandalf?

No cheating.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:28pm

freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 6:50pm:
You don't see any similarities between ISIS and what Muhammed did?

The bearded monsters of ISIS do.
Who is going to explain to them that they are wrong? The 'vast majority of peaceful etc' or the infidel kuffr who do not even read classical Arabic.
The 'vast majority' crowd seem cool about Islam and Mohammed's example being appropriated as long as the kuffr pretend it's not being appropriated.
Victimhood=good, responsibility=western colonial construct contrary to sharia.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?
They had no difficulty mobilising and getting really het up over cartoons and YouTube videos. But kill lots of people in the name of Islam on youtube and the 'vast majority of peaceful etc' crowd have nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Datalife on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:52pm

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?
They had no difficulty mobilising and getting really het up over cartoons and YouTube videos. But kill lots of people in the name of Islam on youtube and the 'vast majority of peaceful etc' crowd have nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.


Yes, people notice.  Cartoons equals universal islamic outrage, Muslims are united and the west chastised for incitement and free speech.  Muslims are always victims.

Beheadings and holding heads in general, hardly a peep, Muslims looking down and shuffling feet and the so called leaders boycott a governmental meeting.  People can join dots. 

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 4th, 2014 at 10:58pm

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


Because thats not what street protests are about. People don't organise protests just to make people like you feel better, or to submit to your blackmail. Protests are directed at the host nation's government, to pressure it to take a particular policy direction.

Your demand is no different to demanding rank and file catholics take to the streets against the catholic church being hijacked by pedophiles and the leadership that covers it up.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:12pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 10:58pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


Because thats not what street protests are about. People don't organise protests just to make people like you feel better, or to submit to your blackmail. Protests are directed at the host nation's government, to pressure it to take a particular policy direction.

Your demand is no different to demanding rank and file catholics take to the streets against the catholic church being hijacked by pedophiles and the leadership that covers it up.

Catholics are not boycotting the royal commission.
Muslims are boycotting talks about islamist terrorism.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:14pm

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


You must have missed Syrians in Sydney and Melbourne protesting against the Assad regime, old chap.

Completely understandable. The Australian and the Tele didn’t cover it.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:18pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


You must have missed Syrians in Sydney and Melbourne protesting against the Assad regime, old chap.

Completely understandable. The Australian and the Tele didn’t cover it.

Ah, then it's OK to behead in the name of Islam.
Got it.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:30pm

freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:07pm:
Do you see any similarities Gandalf?

No cheating.



Come on.

Get real.

You're begging a moslem ?

'Don't cheat.' ?



Google;
taqiyya


Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:36pm

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


Soren,

The decent moslems, all around the world, are all silently fuming, that ISIS is bringing ISLAM into disrepute.

Honest!!!!!!          :D              ;D



I've heard that Hilayly is apoplectic about what ISIS is doing to the reputation of HIS religion.          :P



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2014 at 10:37am

Yadda wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:36pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


Soren,

The decent moslems, all around the world, are all silently fuming, that ISIS is bringing ISLAM into disrepute.

Honest!!!!!!          :D              ;D



I've heard that Hilayly is apoplectic about what ISIS is doing to the reputation of HIS religion.          :P


And you've been demanding Hilali do just that for years.

Honest!

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:38am

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 10:37am:
And you've been demanding Hilali do just that for years.

Honest!


Don't you see the rationale for why muslims will always be evil?

- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:51am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 10:37am:
And you've been demanding Hilali do just that for years.

Honest!


Don't you see the rationale for

why muslims will always be evil?


- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving



- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving



No, gandalf.




THIS ----->

Is why all moslems are evil......




A RESPECTED MOSLEM SCHOLAR URGING MOSLEMS, IN THE UK, TO MAINTAIN A DECEITFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UK NON-MOSLEM COMMUNITY, FOR THE PURPOSE OF MOSLEMS STRENGTHENING A MALICIOUS AND VIOLENT INTENT [on the moslem part, towards those who are not moslems].


Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece







IMAGE...


Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:
How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong


"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/








Moslems are evil, because they are moslems,         ....because following ISLAM has corrupted their psyche.

And because moslems are happy, to be those who hate truth, and those who love infidelity.




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"






Quote:
"A Study in Muslim Doctrine

...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:51am

Yadda wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 11:36pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 9:38pm:
Why aren't Muslims on the streets about their religion being supposedly hijacked by Isis?


Soren,

The decent moslems, all around the world, are all silently fuming, that ISIS is bringing ISLAM into disrepute.

Honest!!!!!!          :D              ;D



I've heard that Hilayly is apoplectic about what ISIS is doing to the reputation of HIS religion.          :P



I did wonder about that... after all how can anyone claim they are all being tarred with the same brush... when they dont actually speak up and have a group march about the appalling beheadings that we are witnessing all in the name of ISLAM.

now I get it.. its silent and invisible....thanks for that..I feel much better now

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 12:06pm
Yes, they are "silent" because you lot have your hands over your ears screaming "la la la I'm not listening to you!".

As is always the case, the condemnation is there, you can find it with a 2 second google search. Just as every other islamic atrocity has resulted in the same unequivocal muslim condemnation, and which in turn has resulted in the same ear covering by you lot.

Of course your meme is flexible - it can either be "why aren't the muslims speaking out?", or just as valid - "speaking out is not enough - you have to take to the streets demanding the terrorists blood".

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by King FriYAY II on Sep 5th, 2014 at 12:31pm
Looks like this pack of filth has cut off one head to many.

Even Obama is pissed off now.

The world can’t sit back and watch these barbaric troglodytes create their caliphate.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2014 at 12:36pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:51am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 10:37am:
And you've been demanding Hilali do just that for years.

Honest!


Don't you see the rationale for

why muslims will always be evil?


- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving



- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving



No, gandalf.




THIS ----->

Is why all moslems are evil......


No, Y, THIS is why all Muslims are evil:

Abu.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2014 at 12:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 12:06pm:
Yes, they are "silent" because you lot have your hands over your ears screaming "la la la I'm not listening to you!".

As is always the case, the condemnation is there, you can find it with a 2 second google search. Just as every other islamic atrocity has resulted in the same unequivocal muslim condemnation, and which in turn has resulted in the same ear covering by you lot.

Of course your meme is flexible - it can either be "why aren't the muslims speaking out?", or just as valid - "speaking out is not enough - you have to take to the streets demanding the terrorists blood".


Or taking to the streets demanding the terrorists' blood is not enough - you have to denounce Islam itself.

Or denouncing Islam is not enough - you have to join the old boys.

Mind you, there aren't too many ex-Muselmen in the old boy club. They're very selective about who they let in.

How many ex-Musel Karmic Khristians do you have in your church, Y?

I'm curious.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Sep 5th, 2014 at 4:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 12:06pm:
Yes, they are "silent" because you lot have your hands over your ears screaming "la la la I'm not listening to you!".

As is always the case, the condemnation is there, you can find it with a 2 second google search. Just as every other islamic atrocity has resulted in the same unequivocal muslim condemnation, and which in turn has resulted in the same ear covering by you lot.

Of course your meme is flexible - it can either be "why aren't the muslims speaking out?", or just as valid - "speaking out is not enough - you have to take to the streets demanding the terrorists blood".



we know gandalf... you dont have to explain it every time.


its our fault

is now always has been...

would it serve your purpose if we chopped a few muslims heads off?????...

just asking...

as the fact we ask..

WHERE ARE THE VOICES... WHERE ARE THE PROTESTERS..

Seems a good reason for sneering...

and I can only guess you want more from us.. condemnation isnt enough...


so blood it is then...only not Christian  blood

muslims blood...

that way you can at least stop sneering at our efforts... and claim we are as bad as them..

which I gather is what you would dearly love to see..


there is an evil poison running through certain people of the muslim faith..

and yes I for one see very little from the "faithful" that condemns what is happening right at this moment...

the men  they are decapitating  for the camera... would be going through hell long before, and I would think death would be a blessed relief to them...

and not one protest have we seen from any of the faithful...

all I know is.. if this was Christians... I would hope I would be making one hell of a noise..

not sitting in a forum like this whining about what others said about us.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2014 at 4:30pm

cods wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 4:21pm:
all I know is.. if this was Christians... I would hope I would be making one hell of a noise..

not sitting in a forum like this whining about what others said about us.


That's right, dear. You'd never sit in a forum whining about what others said about us.

Stop the boats, eh?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Sep 5th, 2014 at 5:35pm

Quote:
Because thats not what street protests are about. People don't organise protests just to make people like you feel better, or to submit to your blackmail. Protests are directed at the host nation's government, to pressure it to take a particular policy direction.


Not true. There have been plenty of protest movements targeted directly at the broader public rather than the government. Islamic extremism is screaming out for the same thing.


Quote:
As is always the case, the condemnation is there, you can find it with a 2 second google search. Just as every other islamic atrocity has resulted in the same unequivocal muslim condemnation


Except of course for the hundred or so Australian Muslims who went over there to join in. I challenge you to find as many Australian Muslims working up the 'courage' to speak out publicly against ISIS.


Quote:
Of course your meme is flexible - it can either be "why aren't the muslims speaking out?", or just as valid - "speaking out is not enough - you have to take to the streets demanding the terrorists blood".


Islam is going to look bad either way. This is not some kind of incomprehensible trickery Gandalf. You can't just white wash something like ISIS and the involvement of so many Australians (excluding those you insist are helping in the refugee camps, of course) with a few press releases trying to distance the broader Muslim community from it.


Quote:
Looks like this pack of filth has cut off one head to many.
Even Obama is pissed off now.


I expect that is their intention. They bitched and moaned about US forces on Islamic lands. Now they are desperate to get them back.


Quote:
Or taking to the streets demanding the terrorists' blood is not enough - you have to denounce Islam itself.


Patience Karnal. One hadith at a time.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 6:35pm

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 5:35pm:
Not true. There have been plenty of protest movements targeted directly at the broader public rather than the government.


Such as?

Can you give me an example of a street protest where the protesters are chanting "we agree with you [the Australian public]!!"?



freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 5:35pm:
Islam is going to look bad either way. This is not some kind of incomprehensible trickery Gandalf.


Oh I know FD. You yourself described public statements by muslim leaders condemning violence and extremism as a sinister tactic to "bide their time" to ensure the inevitable islamic takeover was done properly.

Its foolproof - we either ignore what they say and pretend they don't say anything, or we don't ignore it and brand their words as taqiyya.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 6:41pm

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 5:35pm:
Islam is going to look bad either way.


And we'll damn well ensure it stays that way!

None of this spineless nonsense:


freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2007 at 5:56pm:
What we need to do is stop alienating the entire muslim community and work with them towards the goals we have in common. The more we tar them all with the same brush, the more we push weaker individuals towards extremism.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 5th, 2014 at 6:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 6:41pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2007 at 5:56pm:
What we need to do is stop alienating the entire muslim community and work with them towards the goals we have in common. The more we tar them all with the same brush, the more we push weaker individuals towards extremism.




FD, I remember you used to argue with me about this sort of thing.

WHen did the scales fall from your eyes?


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 10:37am:
And you've been demanding Hilali do just that for years.

Honest!


Don't you see the rationale for why muslims will always be evil?

- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving



Gandy,

Muslims are all hot and excitable about books, cartoons and youtube clips. These trivial things bring them out onto the streets, and they go completely apeshit.

When the jews hit back at their provocation, they are also out there, actively shouting.

But get a few thousand head hackers to kill and rape and pillage in the name of Islam and the Muslims are suddenly claiming that it has nothing to do with what they feel, think or do.

So in essence, when Islam is criticised by the kuffar in print, drawing and vids, they go apeshit.
When Islam is 'misrepresented' as a bloodthirsty primitive deathcult, killing and destroying while allahu akhbaring, it's got nuffin' to do wiv Muslims.



The point you need to internalise: Muslims go apeshit over nothing (cartoons, books) yet they are quiet when actual bloody mayhem is committed in their religion's name.

This is not credible, pal, absolutely not credible.i


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:35pm
Soren, if you are talking about the minority populations in the west - the point is they are a minority - it is understandable they only 'take to the streets' in response to minority issues. When they perceive they are under attack by the majority, dominant group in society, they exercise their democratic right to stand up against that perceived threat. Like I said, it makes no sense for this minority to march down the street chanting "Hey! We agree with you [the dominant group] - ISIS sux!!" It serves no purpose other than to appease the demands of the majority culture.

But if you're talking about muslims in muslim-majority nations, perhaps the whole arab spring thing skipped your attention.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:35pm:

....if you're talking about muslims in muslim-majority nations, perhaps the whole arab spring thing skipped your attention.



gandalf,

Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the "arab spring thing" ?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?


Mild mannered - "We will govern for all Egyptians" - Mohammed Morsi -
Ex-President of Egypt

"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg





Or was it Syria perhaps ?

Or was it Iran ?



Which moslem nation gandalf,       .....has emerged as the shining beacon and as the shining example to the world,     ....of ISLAMIC/moslem virtue, after the "arab spring thing" ?


"arab spring thing"

:Di

Yadda said.....

Quote:

Surrounding moslem nations have been assailing Israel - since 1948.

Today, Israel exists, is strong, and is thriving.


.......
.......
In contrast with Israel,          every moslem nation in the region is in disarray and is being rent apart with internal - moslem - conflicts.

Why so ?

Aren't the moslems, the people who are blessed by Allah, their god -
...as a reward to moslems, for their righteousness, FOR BEING MOSLEMS ?





ISRAEL....

Genesis 12:3
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee....

Genesis 27:29
....cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

Numbers 24:9
....Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.







Moslems have been deceived          ...by their own jealousy and self-pride.

And moslems have been cursed, BY GOD - because of their wicked enmity towards their brothers, Israel.



ISLAM is a false religion.

Mohammed is a false [self-serving] prophet.

Moslems are slaves,         to a false and wicked spirit.


Galatians
4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30  Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



The blessing [of God], is with the children of Isaac [and Jacob - ISRAEL].

Genesis 21:10
Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11  And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12  And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.




....Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exodus 4:22







Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:08pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 10:37am:
And you've been demanding Hilali do just that for years.

Honest!


Don't you see the rationale for why muslims will always be evil?

- stay silent - they are apologists
- speak out - they are self serving



Gandy,

Muslims are all hot and excitable about books, cartoons and youtube clips. These trivial things bring them out onto the streets, and they go completely apeshit.

When the jews hit back at their provocation, they are also out there, actively shouting.

But get a few thousand head hackers to kill and rape and pillage in the name of Islam and the Muslims are suddenly claiming that it has nothing to do with what they feel, think or do.

So in essence, when Islam is criticised by the kuffar in print, drawing and vids, they go apeshit.
When Islam is 'misrepresented' as a bloodthirsty primitive deathcult, killing and destroying while allahu akhbaring, it's got nuffin' to do wiv Muslims.



The point you need to internalise: Muslims go apeshit over nothing (cartoons, books) yet they are quiet when actual bloody mayhem is committed in their religion's name.

This is not credible, pal, absolutely not credible.





shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh soren.. he doesnt want to hear that..


what bothers me is I have never given a toss about Islam and or what it means.. if that makes me a racist I dont give a stuff..

however all of a sudden its all we talk about...I have even looked into the extremist and Islam threads here the first time in my life....and now I walk the other way when I see anyone that looks like a muslim...even children.. they scare me...

now whos fault that????...

.dont ask me to cross the road to help one of them....after what I have seen and read they are capable of doing....it makes me sick to my stomach... even the children are not exempt from their hatred of anything that isnt Islam....

we have turned a blind eye to what they are capable of doing for far too long... and all its done is help them spawn more and bigger groups...and more vicious attacks.., usually on defenceless people..





Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:33pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:56pm:
Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?



Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock muslims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:49pm
The Muslims are in charge of the Labian shi thole.
Explain why everything turns to shite when the jihadis are in charge. Isn' t jihad Islamic?
How long do you think you can obfuscate?
I think it's over for your agitprop when only Brain, PB and wally are buying your line.


Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:52pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 6:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 6:41pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2007 at 5:56pm:
What we need to do is stop alienating the entire muslim community and work with them towards the goals we have in common. The more we tar them all with the same brush, the more we push weaker individuals towards extremism.


FD, I remember you used to argue with me about this sort of thing.

WHen did the scales fall from your eyes?


FD changed his mind.

No more questions, thanks.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:58pm

GAndy,
Muslims stand up to oppression in order to impose their owns requirement for submission. They are not standing up for human freedom and dignity. They are standing up to demand submission.
Why would you even think that people do not realise that you are fudging ( if not oovertly trying to pack fudge with PB and Brain etc).

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Yadda on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:21pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

GAndy,
Muslims stand up to oppression in order to impose their owns requirement for submission. They are not standing up for human freedom and dignity.

They are standing up to demand submission.

Why would you even think that people do not realise that you are fudging ( if not oovertly trying to pack fudge with PB and Brain etc).



They are standing up to demand submission.


They are standing up, soley to impose submission ['ISLAM'], upon others.

as per, ISIS, in Syria and Iraq today.







Moslems always denigrate any idea/political system which is un-ISLAMIC as being some form of rule/oppression by non-moslems.

Truth doesn't come into it, when a moslem scrutinises ISLAM and ISLAM's systems of rule - over a society.

But moslems will never acknowledge that oppression is the only way in which ISLAM itself and ISLAM's systems of rule, can rule over others [even fellow moslems].


ISLAM = = oppression and injustice,
.....but a moslem can never bring himself to acknowledge the truth of that circumstance, because to do so, would be to accede to the imperfections within the systems of rule of ISLAM.





Yadda said.....

Quote:

In 'promoting' ISLAM to the whole earth, all REAL moslems understand, that terror is BOTH, the objective, and the method!

i.e.
#1,
ISLAMIC authority [government] is gained legitimately through the use of terror.

#2,
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror.



Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:28pm

Quote:
Such as?


Gay pride. Reclaim the night. What do you think the Sydney mardis gras is? A Greens rally?


Quote:
Oh I know FD. You yourself described public statements by muslim leaders condemning violence and extremism as a sinister tactic to "bide their time" to ensure the inevitable islamic takeover was done properly.


Like the British Imam who responded to 9/11 by saying it was wrong to kill innocents, then told his congregation in Arabic that only Muslims are innocent. Even Abu made laid out this strategy. Apparently it is somehow unIslamic to go on the offensive from a position of weakness. You bide your time until you are in a position of strength. Muhammed himself was all peace and love until he was in a position to start the head hacking.


Quote:
Its foolproof - we either ignore what they say and pretend they don't say anything, or we don't ignore it and brand their words as taqiyya.


Words are merely the beginning Gandalf. If you expect that telling people what they want to to hear is all it takes to make people ignore the link between islam and terrorism you are just naive. You are right that they will be painted as falling short either way, because they are.


Quote:
And we'll damn well ensure it stays that way!


Muslims will make sure it stays that way, because Islam compels them to. ISIS is no grand conspiracy. It is Muslims doing what Muhammed did. It is not 'us' making Islam look bad. It is Muslims. There is a limit to how much victimhood you can claim on behalf of Islam. Islam does not look bad because we are putting a negative spin on ISIS. Islam looks bad because ISIS really are old school Islamic head hackers.


Quote:
FD, I remember you used to argue with me about this sort of thing.
WHen did the scales fall from your eyes?


When I started talking to Muslims about it.


Quote:
Like I said, it makes no sense for this minority to march down the street chanting "Hey! We agree with you [the dominant group] - ISIS sux!!"


Just like it makes no sense for catholics to speak out against pedophile priests? That is what people do Gandalf. If Muslims could do the same thing, it would not take them centuries of misery and slaughter to shake off the lunatics.


Quote:
But if you're talking about muslims in muslim-majority nations, perhaps the whole arab spring thing skipped your attention.


When the Arab spring sprung, Abu predicted it would give birth to something like ISIS. We all thought his goose was cooked and the Muslims were finally joining the civilised world. I think you were even around at the time. Now look who got it right. Without western interference, they would be marching on Baghdad and within a lifetime would probably have the same territory Muhammed obtained.


Quote:
But while its really classy and all of you to mock muslims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.


They stand up against the wrong flavour of oppression.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:33pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

GAndy,
Muslims stand up to oppression in order to impose their owns requirement for submission. They are not standing up for human freedom and dignity. They are standing up to demand submission.
Why would you even think that people do not realise that you are fudging ( if not oovertly trying to pack fudge with PB and Brain etc).


I say, old chap, I do feel that what we do in the privacy of the hydro-therapy pool should be kept between the two of us.

And it’s not oppression either.

It’s a form of love.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by gandalf on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:59pm

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:28pm:
Gay pride. Reclaim the night. What do you think the Sydney mardis gras is? A Greens rally?


ummm you mean a minority who is standing up for their minority rights against hostility and bigotry from the dominant culture? Yes FD, I believe that was my point.


freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:28pm:
Just like it makes no sense for catholics to speak out against pedophile priests? That is what people do Gandalf. If Muslims could do the same thing,


They do do the same thing FD. Catholics don't go marching down the street to show their condemnation for pedophile priests either. Thats what we're talking about remember - marching down the street? As for "speaking out", both muslims and catholics speak out, but why are you even suggesting that is even relevant? You just reaffirmed in this very post my point that speaking out makes no difference to you anyway. Just like when they march against terrorism (which they do constantly), you'll find some reason to mock them. There literally isn't anything they could do is there?


freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 9:28pm:
They stand up against the wrong flavour of oppression.


In Egypt they stood up against both the secular military and the islamists - causing both regimes to fall.

In Syria the bulk of the population has remained steadfast in their support for Assad's fight against the islamist terrorists.

There's the two most important arab spring cases proving you wrong. You might want to rethink your 'argument by catchprhase' technique.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by freediver on Sep 6th, 2014 at 8:09am

Quote:
ummm you mean a minority who is standing up for their minority rights against hostility and bigotry from the dominant culture? Yes FD, I believe that was my point.


Why didn't you just say that? Instead of this:


Quote:
Because thats not what street protests are about. People don't organise protests just to make people like you feel better, or to submit to your blackmail. Protests are directed at the host nation's government, to pressure it to take a particular policy direction.



Quote:
They do do the same thing FD. Catholics don't go marching down the street to show their condemnation for pedophile priests either. Thats what we're talking about remember - marching down the street?


I thought we were talking about ISIS.


Quote:
You just reaffirmed in this very post my point that speaking out makes no difference to you anyway.


I have explained this a few times. The more Muslims speak out, the less they will be criticised for not speaking out. The more they actually reign in extremists, the less they will be criticised for failing to do so. There is no magic number, and you can not expect a few nice words to undo the harm that ISIS is doing. You are not a victim here.


Quote:
There literally isn't anything they could do is there?


There are currently about 100 Australians overseas fighting for various terrorist groups. They could prevent this number growing, and work with Authorities to determine what is going on with the ones who are already over there. Unfortunately not all of them post head hacking photos on facebook. They could also get on board with the global movement to destroy ISIS, rather than using it as yet another opportunity to blame the west for everything.


Quote:
There's the two most important arab spring cases proving you wrong.


You are using Syria to counter my claim about ISIS?

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by cods on Sep 6th, 2014 at 9:03am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:56pm:
Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?



Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock muslims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/06/the-conflict-in-the-middle-east-is-far-bigger-than-isis-and-al-qaeda/


what freedom are you talking about? not the same one we have I presume.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 8th, 2014 at 10:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:56pm:
Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?



Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock musliiims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

I have only seen Muslims stand up for the right to submit to unfreedom.
They are fighting for the caliphate of Submission as we speak.  Muslim freedom means jihad for sharia. There is NO Muslim force for freedom.

Title: Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Post by Soren on Sep 8th, 2014 at 10:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 7:56pm:
Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?



Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock musliiims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

I have only seen Muslims stand up for the right to submit to unfreedom.
They are fighting for the caliphate of Submission as we speak.  Muslim freedom means jihad for sharia. There is NO Muslim force for freedom.

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