Hundreds of workers at Coca-Cola Amatil's warehouses around the country will cop a pay freeze and new hires will receive pay of 38 per cent less to do the same job under new pay deals that provide a stark warning of the pressure on wages across the economy.

In the latest move in a national strategy to lower wages, beverage giant Coca-Cola Amatil sealed a new pay deal this week with its Victorian warehouse workers that locks in a pay freeze in 2015, followed by pay increase of about $30 in 2016.

The national rate of inflation of 3 per cent a year means these workers' wages will effectively go backwards. But more unusually the agreement also enabled a two-tiered pay system that will see new hires receive about 38 per cent less than their encumbent colleagues doing the same jobs.



A spokeswoman for Coca-Cola Amatil said the deal brought wages closer to market rates.

The Mentone and Moorabin-based workers in Melbourne are part of a wider program of wage crunches across Coca-Cola Amatil's warehouses. Workers hired either directly or by contractors in Queensland and Western Australia have also experienced significant wage cuts of about $5 an hour this year.

Most of the company's warehouse workers are managed by Programme Integrated Workforce, which confirmed it managed the majority of the staff involved, but declined to comment.

The trend of limiting or reversing wage increases goes beyond Coca-Cola Amatil, which reported a 15.6 per cent drop in net profit down to $182.3 million in August, as corporates try to cut costs.

Stephen Smith, director of national workplace relations at the Australian Industry Group told Fairfax Media it was seeing similar agreements nationwide.

"We are seeing very modest wage outcomes across most sectors at present, given the economic circumstances, and wage freezes are certainly not uncommon."

Mr Smith said several recent enterprise agreements included lesser wages and poorer conditions for new staff as many companies sought legitimate and sensible ways to correct generous conditions granted to staff in more prosperous times, fuelled by the mining boom.

According to data released by recruitment site SEEK, wages for mining, construction and engineering jobs have declined slightly this financial year.

But it's not just industries propelled by the mining boom that are capping wage rises.

Unions claim several food manufacturers are working to drop wage increases below inflation including Simplot, which produces such as Birds Eye and Lean Cuisine, and Kelloggs, which Fairfax Media understands it threatening to shift local production to Thailand if workers don't agree to lower increases.

All state governments have implemented wage policies that cap wage increases below inflation

A spokesman for the United Voice union, which represented some of the 90-odd workers at Coke's Victorian warehouses, said it had no idea why workers would accept such an agreement.

"We supported our members throughout the process and advised them to vote against the agreement. The problem is we have about a quarter of the workforce as members, and our members were outvoted," the spokesman said.

ACTU president Ged Kearney said the slowing wages and fiercely contested enterprise bargaining agreements were leading to more insecurity and fewer rights at work.

"Australian workers know all too well there is no wage explosion despite misleading claims by the Abbott government and big business," Ms Kearney said.

Diminishing wages lead to a population less willing to spend what is left of their income after paying rising utility bills and property prices.

This weighs heavily on consumer sentiment and business confidence. Both sagged in August, with consumer sentiment plummeting four percentage points this year, down to a cumulative total of 15 points lower than a year ago.

HSBC chief economist Paul Bloxham told Fairfax Media wage growth was likely to continue to slow and the decline would hit consumer sentiment, house prices and GDP.

"It is a trend, we've seen slowing wage growth for about two years and in some cases, real wages are falling," Mr Bloxham said. "The big risk is this will mean less spending, and lower demand growth will mean lower GDP."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/cocacola-amatil-slashes-wages-with-new-employees-to-work-for-less-20140910-10exj8.html#ixzz3CyPrxsvS

17 years of falling productivity growth has to bite sometime.

I'm surprised there hasn't been marching in the streets over this one.
Coca-Cola fuelled violence at least.
You'd think this would be more of an inducement for Bill Shorten to get up on a truck than worries about Jap submarines sinking our ships 70 years ago.

Coca Cola is a poison anyway. And Coca Cola owners are scum, buying up water springs all over the world with the help of corrupt politicians, stealing the water from the locals and then selling the water hyperinflated back to the locals.

I suggest Coca Cola should be closed down by force, the owners should be jailed and dispossessed, the money should be used to buy land for the landless people where they can live self sufficient.

This sort of thing is going on all over the place.

This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results.

This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc.

Exactly, thus the title of the thread.

You noted this bit:
Stephen Smith, director of national workplace relations at the Australian Industry Group told Fairfax Media it was seeing similar agreements nationwide.

So next election the unions will have to put those signs high up on the power poles: "Stop work choices by stealth"

To have work choices you need work available. Sorry 'bout that.... the end game in IR is either total control over the serfs or nothing at all..

I say buggar off then and let us get things going our way for a change... get in some Mice to run the show instead of Cats....

And new hires will receive 38% less UNTIL they are trained and validated in the work, but at no time does any wage rate go below the mandatory level for the award.

A full rundown on the agreement would go a long way.... generally though such things, once analysed, make it difficult for those pumping a political agenda.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc.

who knows... maybe this is why unemployment is dropping??? 

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:22pm:

Exactly, thus the title of the thread. You noted this bit: Stephen Smith, director of national workplace relations at the Australian Industry Group told Fairfax Media it was seeing similar agreements nationwide. So next election the unions will have to put those signs high up on the power poles: "Stop work choices by stealth"

except the protest marches will be small because too many people are employed instead.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. who knows... maybe this is why unemployment is dropping???

It has been going up till the last result which has gone back to where it was - i.e. back to just a bad result 6.4% or so.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc.

Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure.

You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum.

King FriYAY II wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure. You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum.

you can put wages down when expenses come down ... until then, piss off.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

who knows... maybe this is why unemployment is dropping???

Really?

July 2014

Unemployment rate rises to 6pc despite nearly 16,000 new jobs


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-10/unemployment-jobs-figures-abs-june/5587280

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc.

Load of horseshit. Wages are under pressure because productivity has been allowed to slip for the last 17 years. Sooner or later it catches up. Without productivity growth, wages will not grow and only match inflation. Once productivity dips below zero, real wages will decline.

King FriYAY II wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure. You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum.

More horseshit. Real wages growth has been pretty awful for most of the last decade. Declining with productivity. Funny about that.

One year in and Abbott’s carefully crafted attack on rights at work is on track and only just warming up

07 September, 2014 | Media Release While the cruel and unfair changes to education, health and the pension have dominated Tony Abbott’s first year in office, his Government’s carefully crafted attack on workers rights has been gearing up in the background.

“The Abbott Government has a clear agenda to chip away at workplace laws protecting workers’ rights, wages and conditions by ‘evolution not revolution’,” said ACTU President Ged Kearney.

This includes:

    The Fair Work Amendment Bill that goes further than the Howard Government did in stripping away protections around individual contracts
    A Productivity Commission review of Australia’s entire system of workplace laws with draft terms of reference that may as well have been written by big business
    Plans to set up an appeals body allowing employers to challenge and overrule decisions by the independent umpire, the Fair Work Commission
    Targeting the construction industry with different and harsher laws than any other industry through the Australian Building and Construction Commission and Building Code
    The Bill to amend the Fair Entitlement Guarantee will cut protection of workers’ redundancy payments where their employer is insolvent
    Review of transfer of business protections for state public sector workers where their work is outsourced as well as the rights and protections for outworkers in the textile, clothing and footwear industry
    The Registered Organisations Bill that will hamstring unions in red tape ensuring they can not effectively represent workers or campaign to raise community awareness
    Wasting $54 million on a political witch hunt through the Royal Commission

“The Abbott Government can repeat their mantra of ‘evolution not revolution’ all they like - but no one should be fooled, there is a comprehensive, calculated plan to strip away workers’ rights and wages,” said Ms Kearney.

“Remember, this is the same language the Liberals used to describe their workplace policies last time. All that has really changed is the name.

    “This is evolution, not revolution, and there is still a long way to go."
    Liberal Senator Nick Minchin, speech to HR Nicholls Society, 3 March 2006


“Whatever the Government calls it and however they plan to do it, the end result is still the same – workers will be worse off under Tony Abbott’s anti-worker agenda. Just because they’re not shouting it from the rooftops doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

“The Government has no mandate for these changes. It’s an attack on the rights of millions of Australian workers that goes way beyond what was flagged at the election.

“We’ve seen Tony Abbott target the most vulnerable in our society and attack the living standards of all Australians in his first year in office – there is no doubt he has workers in his sights for the second year.”

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:38pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. who knows... maybe this is why unemployment is dropping???  It has been going up till the last result which has gone back to where it was - i.e. back to just a bad result 6.4% or so.

it was going up under Gillard and rudd and now has peaked and coming back down... under Liberals.  you cant have it both ways.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 5:33pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:41pm: longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:38pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. who knows... maybe this is why unemployment is dropping???  It has been going up till the last result which has gone back to where it was - i.e. back to just a bad result 6.4% or so. it was going up under Gillard and rudd and now has peaked and coming back down... under Liberals.  you cant have it both ways.

When you just type the words that you wish are true you undermine your own credibility.

Rates went up a bit with the GFC as expected and unavoidable but on the whole were remarkable stable till the conservatives took power.

The ABS figures were posted just the other day and they are at odds with your opinion wish.

The reality is that last month we seen the worst unemployment numbers in 15 over years, this month we see a big improvement back to where it was.

This asks a number of questions ?

Was the last sample an aberration or was it the result of a one off, is this result in this same category as well or are we really seeing the start of a recovery. I can say that I don't know but the next few releases should tell us all.

I personally think that we you see two adjacent samples which are both going to the extreme in opposite directions it is almost certain to be unreliable.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 5:33pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:41pm: longweekend58 wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:38pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. who knows... maybe this is why unemployment is dropping???  It has been going up till the last result which has gone back to where it was - i.e. back to just a bad result 6.4% or so. it was going up under Gillard and rudd and now has peaked and coming back down... under Liberals.  you cant have it both ways. When you just type the words that you wish are true you undermine your own credibility. Rates went up a bit with the GFC as expected and unavoidable but on the whole were remarkable stable till the conservatives took power. The ABS figures were posted just the other day and they are at odds with your opinion wish. The reality is that last month we seen the worst unemployment numbers in 15 over years, this month we see a big improvement back to where it was. This asks a number of questions ? Was the last sample an aberration or was it the result of a one off, is this result in this same category as well or are we really seeing the start of a recovery. I can say that I don't know but the next few releases should tell us all. I personally think that we you see two adjacent samples which are both going to the extreme in opposite directions it is almost certain to be unreliable.

I agree we need to get more results to see if last month was an aberration or not.  but does that not erase all the BS you and your lot were going on about rapidly risign unemployment?  if not, it allows me to crow about rapidly DROPPING unemployment.  which is it?

and please don't pretend that unemployment hasn't been trending up for a couple years now.  it didn't start a year ago and as you well know.  and employment stats are always behind the usual economic indicators and takes a long time to change.

Whatever the real rate of unemployment - it will never go away until We, The People, divest ourselves of this Tag Team of two 'sides' of politics here - each intent on some selfish and unthinking and unfeeling agenda that focuses on freebies and handouts to its particular 'chosen ones'.

We've had the 'socialist' side install and amplify affirmative action as a short term equalisation measure and seen affirmative action become THE way of life for those groups chosen for it and our right to earn equally and fairly removed from us to favour them and our society destroyed as a result; we've seen the focus on 'business' and 'industry' by the 'capitalist' side, and all we've seen is the death of industry after industry here.

Until a government of real vision comes along and proceeds to re-introduce some valid infrastructure including training opportunities in CRAFTSMAN work rather than some idea of sitting down all day and operating a computer for many dollars and sets about restoring GENUINE equality - this country will never see the light of day again.

I predicted, during a computer programming course in 1983 - as part of the required 'humanities' segment - that there would be a permanent high level of unemployment into the foreseeable future.

Unless and until some drastic changes are made and we divest ourselves of this Tag Team - nothing will change for the good - only for the bad.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 6:48pm:

Whatever the real rate of unemployment - it will never go away until We, The People, divest ourselves of this Tag Team of two 'sides' of politics here - each intent on some selfish and unthinking and unfeeling agenda that focuses on freebies and handouts to its particular 'chosen ones'. We've had the 'socialist' side install and amplify affirmative action as a short term equalisation measure and seen affirmative action become THE way of life for those groups chosen for it and our right to earn equally and fairly removed from us to favour them and our society destroyed as a result; we've seen the focus on 'business' and 'industry' by the 'capitalist' side, and all we've seen is the death of industry after industry here. Until a government of real vision comes along and proceeds to re-introduce some valid infrastructure including training opportunities in CRAFTSMAN work rather than some idea of sitting down all day and operating a computer for many dollars - this country will never see the light of day again. I predicted, during a computer programming course in 1983 - as part of the required 'humanities' segment - that there would be a permanent high level of unemployment into the foreseeable future. Unless and until some drastic changes are made and we divest ourselves of this Tag Team - nothing will change for the good - only for the bad.

there has ALWAYS been unemployment.  it is scarcely a modern invention.

It is the LEVEL of unemployment that counts and the projections for the future - all dire.

There is no solid infrastructure that provides real jobs instead of MacJobs and short term 'full-time' jobs anywhere on the furthest horizon......

"The Horizon" - the top of the earthworks of a trench in World War I.... and all the ordinary soldier could see most of the time..... in between random death and destruction.....

Now!  Show me that horizon!  The one we can aim for!

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 7:01pm:

It is the LEVEL of unemployment that counts and the projections for the future - all dire. There is no solid infrastructure that provides real jobs instead of MacJobs and short term 'full-time' jobs anywhere on the furthest horizon...... "The Horizon" - the top of the earthworks of a trench in World War I.... and all the ordinary soldier could see most of the time..... in between random death and destruction..... Now!  Show me that horizon!  The one we can aim for!

doom and gloom.  nothing is like the 'old days' right?

thankfully.

History will absolve me - and I do not accept that a few hours a week is a 'job' by any description than that of some self-interested government fool bent on the destruction of my country from within.... both sides... we have both kinds here.. Liberal and Labor.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 7:19pm:

History will absolve me - and I do not accept that a few hours a week is a 'job' by any description than that of some self-interested government fool bent on the destruction of my country from within.... both sides... we have both kinds here.. Liberal and Labor.

the mistake - among many - is that you think these part-time jobs are one-hour/week jobs.  they aren't.  you have NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that 'part-time' means 1hr/week.  and btw this definition of 'employed' has been with us for 20 years and in fact started under labor.  get over it.  35/hrs/week is also part-time.

The point is:-

Even 25 hours a week at $20 - that so many on one side say is too much - is $500 pre-tax... hardly going to give you a home, a future, a retirement package, a car, food on the table, a night out with a prospective shag, and a little comfort and security, is it?  You can spend $400+ a week on rent.... let alone get into the home-ownership slot....

NO part-time job - unless by personal choice - is in any real sense a 'job' at all - it is survival, and what is desperately needed here and now is full employment and full-time jobs at rates which will offer a dedicated worker some hope for a solid future - instead of a gold-lined future for the likes of Tony and Joe.

That means costs have to come down as well, which also means the DEMOLITION of the current housing grab market, the reduction of salaries of fat cats and other strap-hangers, abolition of inflationary taxes such as the GST, solid industry infrastructure that provides many real jobs for the long term instead of propping up holes in the ground, and a foreseeable career and life plan of some sort for the majority.

That should also see a reduction in the level of crime and other social ills... many of which are the direct result of hopelessness.

Then we might begin to see a decent country for all our years of work instead of this robber's paradise we live in now.

crocodile wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:54pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure. You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum. More horseshit. Real wages growth has been pretty awful for most of the last decade. Declining with productivity. Funny about that.

But the declining productivity of whom? Not the workers. Funny how the real underachievers never take a hit.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/03/24/1226604/547823-130325-b-uren.jpg

Setanta wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 4:30pm: King FriYAY II wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:54pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure. You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum. More horseshit. Real wages growth has been pretty awful for most of the last decade. Declining with productivity. Funny about that. But the declining productivity of whom? Not the workers. Funny how the real underachievers never take a hit. http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/03/24/1226604/547823-130325-b-uren.jpg

There are no "whoms" in productivity stats. Growing labour productivity is not a reflection on workers working harder. It has more to do with the uptake of technology. In this regard, both workers and business are adding to the equation.

Add capital and labour together and you end up with multifactor. The decline is obviously in the capital component. The downward slope is what causes wages growth to stall and then fall with respect to inflation. That is what is happening now.

In short, the ratio of capital to labour has been in decline for a long time. Poor government policy from both sides hasn't helped. Too much capital tied up in unproductive asset classes.

crocodile wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 9:30pm:

Setanta wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:59pm: crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 4:30pm: King FriYAY II wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:54pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure. You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum. More horseshit. Real wages growth has been pretty awful for most of the last decade. Declining with productivity. Funny about that. But the declining productivity of whom? Not the workers. Funny how the real underachievers never take a hit. http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/03/24/1226604/547823-130325-b-uren.jpg There are no "whoms" in productivity stats. Growing labour productivity is not a reflection on workers working harder. It has more to do with the uptake of technology. In this regard, both workers and business are adding to the equation. Add capital and labour together and you end up with multifactor. The decline is obviously in the capital component. The downward slope is what causes wages growth to stall and then fall with respect to inflation. That is what is happening now. In short, the ratio of capital to labour has been in decline for a long time. Poor government policy from both sides hasn't helped. Too much capital tied up in unproductive asset classes.

We told that wages should only rise with productivity. Labour productivity is rising, something else is falling behind and it's not labour. The labour has no control over anything more than his job, someone is falling down on the job and it's not those asked told to bear the brunt.

You say it has more to do with the uptake of tech, wouldn't that be classed as capital?

Setanta wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 9:43pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 9:30pm: Setanta wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:59pm: crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 4:30pm: King FriYAY II wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:54pm: Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 3:08pm: This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This is the result of a conservative government. wage levels are being deliberately pushed down and is a secretive government supported push on wage levels. It is related to the failure of workchoices - working within the fair work system to achieve the same type of results. This is not related to the economy or business requirements it is just conservative dogma in action. This lines up with the attack on penalty rates etc. Wages need to come down. They have been going up in most cases because it is either pay up or put up with union pressure. You'd need 1000 cans of CRC to clean the rust of you, fair dinkum. More horseshit. Real wages growth has been pretty awful for most of the last decade. Declining with productivity. Funny about that. But the declining productivity of whom? Not the workers. Funny how the real underachievers never take a hit. http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/03/24/1226604/547823-130325-b-uren.jpg There are no "whoms" in productivity stats. Growing labour productivity is not a reflection on workers working harder. It has more to do with the uptake of technology. In this regard, both workers and business are adding to the equation. Add capital and labour together and you end up with multifactor. The decline is obviously in the capital component. The downward slope is what causes wages growth to stall and then fall with respect to inflation. That is what is happening now. In short, the ratio of capital to labour has been in decline for a long time. Poor government policy from both sides hasn't helped. Too much capital tied up in unproductive asset classes. We told that wages should only rise with productivity. Labour productivity is rising, something else is falling behind and it's not labour. The labour has no control over anything more than his job, someone is falling down on the job and it's not those asked told to bear the brunt. You say it has more to do with the uptake of tech, wouldn't that be classed as capital?

Productivity is not how you describe. Productivity is a measure of output produced per unit of input. In labour terms, the output per unit of human capital can be improved with technology.

As an example, consider the farmer about to plough a field with an ox and moldboard. It may take him a week. Give him a tractor and he can plough 7 fields in a week. This is a labour productivity increase because output per unit of labour has increased 7 times.

Capital productivity is the measure of output achieved per unit of capital. It involves almost everything like buildings ,rent, transport, infrastructure blah blah blah. And including the tractor as a fixed asset.

crocodile wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 10:43pm:

Productivity is not how you describe. Productivity is a measure of output produced per unit of input. In labour terms, the output per unit of human capital can be improved with technology. As an example, consider the farmer about to plough a field with an ox and moldboard. It may take him a week. Give him a tractor and he can plough 7 fields in a week. This is a labour productivity increase because output per unit of labour has increased 7 times. Capital productivity is the measure of output achieved per unit of capital. It involves almost everything like buildings ,rent, transport, infrastructure blah blah blah. And including the tractor as a fixed asset.

Fair enough. How is labours productivity measured to increase pay with their productivity? How do you get a measure of that beyond output per unit of labour?

Setanta wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:43pm: Productivity is not how you describe. Productivity is a measure of output produced per unit of input. In labour terms, the output per unit of human capital can be improved with technology. As an example, consider the farmer about to plough a field with an ox and moldboard. It may take him a week. Give him a tractor and he can plough 7 fields in a week. This is a labour productivity increase because output per unit of labour has increased 7 times. Capital productivity is the measure of output achieved per unit of capital. It involves almost everything like buildings ,rent, transport, infrastructure blah blah blah. And including the tractor as a fixed asset. Fair enough. How is labours productivity measured to increase pay with their productivity? How do you get a measure of that beyond output per unit of labour?

If you can plough 7 fields a week instead of 1 you earn more money.
7 fields per week of labour vs 1

crocodile wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 12:25am:

Setanta wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:52pm: crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:43pm: Productivity is not how you describe. Productivity is a measure of output produced per unit of input. In labour terms, the output per unit of human capital can be improved with technology. As an example, consider the farmer about to plough a field with an ox and moldboard. It may take him a week. Give him a tractor and he can plough 7 fields in a week. This is a labour productivity increase because output per unit of labour has increased 7 times. Capital productivity is the measure of output achieved per unit of capital. It involves almost everything like buildings ,rent, transport, infrastructure blah blah blah. And including the tractor as a fixed asset. Fair enough. How is labours productivity measured to increase pay with their productivity? How do you get a measure of that beyond output per unit of labour? If you can plough 7 fields a week instead of 1 you earn more money. 7 fields per week of labour vs 1

I thought that was tech(capital). How do you differentiate?

Setanta wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 12:31am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 12:25am: Setanta wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:52pm: crocodile wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:43pm: Productivity is not how you describe. Productivity is a measure of output produced per unit of input. In labour terms, the output per unit of human capital can be improved with technology. As an example, consider the farmer about to plough a field with an ox and moldboard. It may take him a week. Give him a tractor and he can plough 7 fields in a week. This is a labour productivity increase because output per unit of labour has increased 7 times. Capital productivity is the measure of output achieved per unit of capital. It involves almost everything like buildings ,rent, transport, infrastructure blah blah blah. And including the tractor as a fixed asset. Fair enough. How is labours productivity measured to increase pay with their productivity? How do you get a measure of that beyond output per unit of labour? If you can plough 7 fields a week instead of 1 you earn more money. 7 fields per week of labour vs 1 I thought that was tech(capital). How do you differentiate?

If the use of a human is required it goes in the labour side of inputs. Whether or not it involves the use of capital is not relevant. The time the labour is used is a quantifiable measurement as is the amount of capital. What matters to productivity is the amount of production relative to the inputs, both labour and capital. Technology allows labour inputs to produce more. Just like the tractor.