There are some on this board who argue incessantly that the terrorists and their sponsors around the world are true islamic experts and scholars, and understand more than anyone the true message of islam. Moreover they are the model of islamic piety. Prominent islamic commentator Mehdi Hasan puts this ridiculous myth to bed.


Quote:

Can you guess which books the wannabe jihadists Yusuf Sarwar and Mohammed Ahmed ordered online from Amazon before they set out from Birmingham to fight in Syria last May? A copy of Milestones by the Egyptian Islamist Sayyid Qutb? No. How about Messages to the World: the Statements of Osama Bin Laden? Guess again. Wait, The Anarchist Cookbook, right? Wrong. Sarwar and Ahmed, both of whom pleaded guilty to terrorism offences last month, purchased Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies. You could not ask for better evidence to bolster the argument that the 1,400-year-old Islamic faith has little to do with the modern jihadist movement.

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Quote:

In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5's behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, "far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could . . . be regarded as religious novices." The analysts concluded that "a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation", the newspaper said.

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Quote:

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, described as "the principal architect" of the 11 September attacks by the 9/11 Commission, once flew a helicopter past a girlfriend's office building with a banner saying "I love you". His nephew Ramzi Yousef, sentenced to life in prison for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, also had a girlfriend and, like his uncle, was often spotted in Manila's red-light district. The FBI agent who hunted Yousef said that he "hid behind a cloak of Islam". Eyewitness accounts suggest the 9/11 hijackers were visiting bars and strip clubs in Florida and Las Vegas in the run-up to the attacks. The Spanish neighbours of Hamid Ahmidan, convicted for his role in the Madrid train bombings of 2004, remember him "zooming by on a motorcycle with his long-haired girlfriend, a Spanish woman with a taste for revealing outfits", according to press reports.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/jihadist-radicalisation-islam-for-dummies_b_5697160.html

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

There are some on this board who argue incessantly that the terrorists and their sponsors around the world are true islamic experts and scholars, and understand more than anyone the true message of islam. Quote: Eyewitness accounts suggest the 9/11 hijackers were visiting bars and strip clubs in Florida and Las Vegas in the run-up to the attacks. The Spanish neighbours of Hamid Ahmidan, convicted for his role in the Madrid train bombings of 2004, remember him "zooming by on a motorcycle with his long-haired girlfriend, a Spanish woman with a taste for revealing outfits", according to press reports. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/jihadist-radicalisation-islam-for-dummies_b_5697160.html

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel if you think Mehdi Hasan enhances the image of Islam.
What does Mehdi Hasan say about non muslims?
hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2012/08/am-i-an-animal-a-cow-or-just-another-victim-of-bbc-bias.html

Yes the 9/11 mass murderers did visit brothels before unleashing their destruction upon innocent non muslims, perhaps they went there to try and visualise what was waiting for them in the Islamic afterlife.

The Islamic afterlife is a bit like a brothel combined with a pub, unlimited clean pussy and rivers of wine with no cost to the true believers.

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel if you think Mehdi Hasan enhances the image of Islam. What does Mehdi Hasan say about non muslims?

Its you who is scraping the bottom of the barrel if you think that has any relevance to this topic.

By the way what do atheists like Richard Dawkins and Hitchens himself say about muslims? Do they describe them as "mentally deficient" and all sorts of other similarly derogatory language?

Here's what Hitchens didn't quote from the same speech:


Quote:

The Middle East, despite all its oil wealth…is an intellectually stagnant area of the world, where one in three Arabs, 65 million human beings, Muslims, are functionally illiterate, of which two thirds are women. 10 million children in the Middle East have never stepped foot inside a classroom, inside a school. That is the modern Muslim legacy. The Middle East…is now intellectually closed off to the outside world. … Closed off to the world – and let s not hear any of this nonsense about foreign literature, or foreign books, or foreign languages, being alien to Islam. It is the only way to learn, to open your minds to non-Muslims, to open your minds to other cultures, to learn foreign languages. … It is no surprise then that when you look at the Muslim world you see that we 1.2 billion Muslims have just 10 Nobel prizes to our name….and our Jewish brethren who we spend so much time fighting and arguing with, 12 million Jews in the world, they have 150 Nobel prizes to their name….We are not under-armed, we are under-educated. We have lost our ability to think, to acquire knowledge, to advance intellectually, and then we wonder why our community is in such decay, why globally wherever you find Muslims we have such problems. It’s not a secret, it’s not a conspiracy, its clear to anyone who looks at the numbers.

Now Baron, you will be the first person cheering on this sort of sentiment: the muslim world at this point is "intellectually barren", closed minded, in decay - making it clear to anyone why there are such problems. Mehdi is blaming and criticising muslims themselves far more than non-muslims. So best be a bit careful about who you are going to smear.

The fact is, islam is stagnant and intellectually barren because of these ignorant cowboy jihadists - who tokenistically take a crash course in "islam for dummies" entirely as an afterthought - and are demonstrably not driven to do behave the way they do by their religion.

Its almost as stupid as saying those UK sex groomers are directly motivated by islamic doctrine - and yes I know you and others would seriously argue that.

It's pretty clear that suicide bombing is against the teachings of Islam. I doubt that when Muhammed talked about dying for Allah he was advising people to hijack a plane and fly it into a building full of civilians. I doubt he was advising people to kill themselves at all. Suicide is against the teachings of Islam, as is killing civilians.

But those suicide bombers were motivated by something. Aside from lone assassins like Lee Harvey Oswald, few people are prepared to do away with their own life by making such a huge statement as killing a president or killing masses of civilians.

Oswald was an atheist, but what motivates people to do such things?

Forget taking out a jetload of passengers and 3000 people in the World Trade Centre. What could possibly motivate someone to commit suicide in such a way?

yearning for glory by those raked by feelings of inadequacy?

I recall Muhammad Atta was a university drop-out who was going through a relationship breakup.

Not really much different to all the marginalised and destitutes who found pride and meaning by joining Hitler's SA.

here you go...

[quote]criminal justice professor Adam Lankford has found evidence that Atta was clinically suicidal, and that his struggles with social isolation, depression, guilt, shame, hopelessness, and rage were extraordinarily similar to the struggles of those who commit conventional suicide and murder-suicide. By this view, Atta’s political and religious beliefs affected the method of his suicide and his choice of target, but they were not the underlying causes of his behavior.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta#Motivation

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 1:55pm:

yearning for glory by those raked by feelings of inadequacy? I recall Muhammad Atta was a university drop-out who was going through a relationship breakup. Not really much different to all the marginalised and destitutes who found pride and meaning by joining Hitler's SA.

Or our very own New Guard.

Or 'Team Australia'.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24th, 2014 at 12:18pm: You are scraping the bottom of the barrel if you think Mehdi Hasan enhances the image of Islam. What does Mehdi Hasan say about non muslims? Its you who is scraping the bottom of the barrel if you think that has any relevance to this topic. By the way what do atheists like Richard Dawkins and Hitchens himself say about muslims? Do they describe them as "mentally deficient" and all sorts of other similarly derogatory language? Here's what Hitchens didn't quote from the same speech: Quote: The Middle East, despite all its oil wealth…is an intellectually stagnant area of the world, where one in three Arabs, 65 million human beings, Muslims, are functionally illiterate, of which two thirds are women. 10 million children in the Middle East have never stepped foot inside a classroom, inside a school. That is the modern Muslim legacy. The Middle East…is now intellectually closed off to the outside world. … Closed off to the world – and let s not hear any of this nonsense about foreign literature, or foreign books, or foreign languages, being alien to Islam. It is the only way to learn, to open your minds to non-Muslims, to open your minds to other cultures, to learn foreign languages. … It is no surprise then that when you look at the Muslim world you see that we 1.2 billion Muslims have just 10 Nobel prizes to our name….and our Jewish brethren who we spend so much time fighting and arguing with, 12 million Jews in the world, they have 150 Nobel prizes to their name….We are not under-armed, we are under-educated. We have lost our ability to think, to acquire knowledge, to advance intellectually, and then we wonder why our community is in such decay, why globally wherever you find Muslims we have such problems. It’s not a secret, it’s not a conspiracy, its clear to anyone who looks at the numbers. Now Baron, you will be the first person cheering on this sort of sentiment: the muslim world at this point is "intellectually barren", closed minded, in decay - making it clear to anyone why there are such problems. Mehdi is blaming and criticising muslims themselves far more than non-muslims. So best be a bit careful about who you are going to smear. The fact is, islam is stagnant and intellectually barren because of these ignorant cowboy jihadists - who tokenistically take a crash course in "islam for dummies" entirely as an afterthought - and are demonstrably not driven to do behave the way they do by their religion. Its almost as stupid as saying those UK sex groomers are directly motivated by islamic doctrine - and yes I know you and others would seriously argue that.

Is there anything that is not true from Hitchens?

Islam is stagnant and devoid of intellectual content thanks to 2 Islamic scholars,al Ghazali put faith before reason and declared Ibn Sina to be an apostate and atheist.
Muhammad Wahhab returned Islam to its roots.
If you want to blame anyone for Islams problems look at Ghazali and Wahhab.

The council of ex muslims has video of Mehdi Hasan calling non muslims animals.
A thread on your hero here-
www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=20853.0

Karnal wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 1:38pm:

It's pretty clear that suicide bombing is against the teachings of Islam. I doubt that when Muhammed talked about dying for Allah he was advising people to hijack a plane and fly it into a building full of civilians. I doubt he was advising people to kill themselves at all. Suicide is against the teachings of Islam, as is killing civilians. But those suicide bombers were motivated by something. Forget taking out a jetload of passengers and 3000 people in the World Trade Centre. What could possibly motivate someone to commit suicide in such a way?

Suicide is haram yet if you call it a martyrdom operation it becomes halal and you win 72 houris with an everlasting erection to service them along with rivers of wine in that heavenly brothel muslims call paradise.

Islam is what motivates these homicidal suicidal muslims, if you talk to mental health experts they will say suicidal and homicidal people are the absolute worst case for mental health, Islam gives muslims serious mental health issues when they take it seriously.

Here is a ruling on whether a Chechen achieved Martyrdom, please read it karnal and gandalf, if you don't like it i can provide more-
www.religioscope.com/pdf/martyrdom.pdf

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

here you go... [quote]criminal justice professor Adam Lankford has found evidence that Atta was clinically suicidal, and that his struggles with social isolation, depression, guilt, shame, hopelessness, and rage were extraordinarily similar to the struggles of those who commit conventional suicide and murder-suicide. By this view, Atta’s political and religious beliefs affected the method of his suicide and his choice of target, but they were not the underlying causes of his behavior.[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta#Motivation

When did this Professor Wankford interview Mr Atta?

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Is there anything that is not true from Hitchens?

umm it wasn't Hitchens who said that - it was Mehdi Hassan - you know the guy you just tried to smear?


Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

The council of ex muslims has video of Mehdi Hasan calling non muslims animals.

no schit sherlock - did I say he didn't say it?

It was in a speech that is mostly about criticising muslims for the stagnation I quoted above.

Shall I pull out a video of Hitchens and/or Dawkins calling muslims mentally deficient etc?

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

When did this Professor Wankford interview Mr Atta?

Brilliant Baron - did you make this post especially so that you could pull out that hillarious title "Professor Wankford"?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

There are some on this board who argue incessantly that the terrorists and their sponsors around the world are true islamic experts and scholars, and understand more than anyone the true message of islam. Moreover they are the model of islamic piety. Prominent islamic commentator Mehdi Hasan puts this ridiculous myth to bed.

Precisely gandalf and I recommend to anyone who thinks otherwise to watch this film:

  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1341167/?ref_=nv_sr_1

muslims are laughing with us NOT at us... :o

Gandalf - the king of Saudi Arabia must know his Koran properly -
yet he approves of hundreds of beheadings.

You lose the argument.

What the hell's that got to do with anything Bobby?

Is the King of Saudi Arabia kidnapping western civilians and beheading them - for being western?

The King of Saudi Arabia is bombing ISIS as we speak - in case you didn't notice.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 8:28pm:

What the hell's that got to do with anything Bobby? Is the King of Saudi Arabia kidnapping western civilians and beheading them - for being western? The King of Saudi Arabia is bombing ISIS as we speak - in case you didn't notice.

So you approve of all those beheadings in Saudi Arabia?

Why do Muslims have a head collecting fetish?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 8:28pm:

The King of Saudi Arabia is bombing ISIS as we speak - in case you didn't notice.

Have you ever played Chess gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

here you go... [quote]criminal justice professor Adam Lankford has found evidence that Atta was clinically suicidal, and that his struggles with social isolation, depression, guilt, shame, hopelessness, and rage were extraordinarily similar to the struggles of those who commit conventional suicide and murder-suicide. By this view, Atta’s political and religious beliefs affected the method of his suicide and his choice of target, but they were not the underlying causes of his behavior.[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta#Motivation

Just think, G - to kill yourself for a cause. Not put your life at risk or start a fight,, or walk into the line of fire - but to pull the pin yourself.

Don’t people who plan and research such an act look into their own teachings? Suicide in most religions means hell.

Not to mention mass murder.

Karnal wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 9:39pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24th, 2014 at 1:58pm: here you go... [quote]criminal justice professor Adam Lankford has found evidence that Atta was clinically suicidal, and that his struggles with social isolation, depression, guilt, shame, hopelessness, and rage were extraordinarily similar to the struggles of those who commit conventional suicide and murder-suicide. By this view, Atta’s political and religious beliefs affected the method of his suicide and his choice of target, but they were not the underlying causes of his behavior.[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta#Motivation Just think, G - to kill yourself for a cause. Not put your life at risk or start a fight,, or walk into the line of fire - but to pull the pin yourself. Don’t people who plan and research such an act look into their own teachings? Suicide in most religions means hell. Not to mention mass murder.

If Islamic terror is unislamic why did the Qadri Fatwa that was supposed to outlaw it take 600 pages to get the point across?

Is Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri a Pakistani sufi muslim, do the sunni/salafi take any notice of what the sufi say?

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2014 at 9:49pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 24th, 2014 at 9:39pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 24th, 2014 at 1:58pm: here you go... [quote]criminal justice professor Adam Lankford has found evidence that Atta was clinically suicidal, and that his struggles with social isolation, depression, guilt, shame, hopelessness, and rage were extraordinarily similar to the struggles of those who commit conventional suicide and murder-suicide. By this view, Atta’s political and religious beliefs affected the method of his suicide and his choice of target, but they were not the underlying causes of his behavior.[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta#Motivation Just think, G - to kill yourself for a cause. Not put your life at risk or start a fight,, or walk into the line of fire - but to pull the pin yourself. Don’t people who plan and research such an act look into their own teachings? Suicide in most religions means hell. Not to mention mass murder. If Islamic terror is unislamic why did the Qadri Fatwa that was supposed to outlaw it take 600 pages to get the point across? Is Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri a Pakistani sufi muslim, do the sunni/salafi take any notice of what the sufi say?

I’m not sure - I can’t understand all those words. Sunni/Salafi sufi..

Suicide and mass murder make sense to me. Muslim terror doesn’t mean anything at all.

Have I missed something, Baron?

Amazing Baron's still banging away at that 600 page fatwa non-point.