Quote:

Women In Solidarity with Hijabs campaign aims to unite Muslim and non-Muslim Australians By Natalie Whiting A new social media campaign encouraging women to take a photo of themselves wearing a head scarf to show support for Muslim women and religious freedom has been launched. Women in Solidarity with Hijabs (WISH) began nine days ago and has already attracted almost 18,000 "likes" on Facebook. It comes amid ongoing debate about banning the burkas and in an environment where reports of racial attacks against Muslim women are being made on a daily basis.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-02/campaign-uniting-muslims-and-australian-women-launched/5786814

'The veil is a tool of oppression used to alienate and control women under the guise of religious freedom'

This Muslim women disagrees with you. Who is in the right.

My own view is:

Cant be worn whilst driving.

Cant be worn in any building. Just like motor bike riders helmets.

dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html

Women in Solidarity with Hijabs



What next ?

Is there going to be a campaign among non-moslem Australian women to have clitoridectomies, in support for moslem women and 'religious freedom' for moslem women ?








Hijabed women       proudly waving an Australian flag
http://cache.newzulu.com.au/en/photos/local/2014-01-25/4925/sydney-s-egyptian-community-stages/all_fullscreen/45087-img_3351.jpg
A crowd of moslems in Sydney, advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt;
What is scandalous, is that moslems should hold up an Australian flag, as though to suggest that Australia and Australians would ever support the political aspirations of ISLAMISTS in Egypt - the Muslim Brotherhood political group.





Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:14pm:

Herbert, I see it as indeed perverse [and potentially, as a criminal intent], ....that moslems, living in Australia, clearly see nothing wrong with using their own children [living in Sydney], to advocate for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt, when we know, that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, intends to make lawful, female genital mutilation, which [if the Muslim Brotherhood ever came to power in Egypt], would be performed upon young Egyptian girls, exactly like the young moslem girls living in Australia, who are advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt! I do wonder if these young moslem girls living in Australia, have any idea, have been informed by their moslem parents, of what it is, that they [those children, on the streets of Sydney, Australia] are advocating for ? i.e. Do these young girls in Sydney, have any idea, of what it is, that they are advocating for, for their own counterparts, living in Egypt ?

and...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1390857768/43#43

Looks to me like the usual hypocrisy of the Right. 
"We believe in freedom". 
"I want to wear a Niquab/Burka!" 
"You can't!  We won't allow you to!"   
"What happened to freedom?"

If they truly believed that the Burka was an instrument of oppression why are they penalising the victims?

Typical rightard thinking!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

sodu wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 1:21pm:

'The veil is a tool of oppression used to alienate and control women under the guise of religious freedom' This Muslim women disagrees with you. Who is in the right. My own view is: Cant be worn whilst driving. Cant be worn in any building. Just like motor bike riders helmets. dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html

what you on about?

Gandalf mentioned the veil, not the face covering, there is a difference.

Niqab is not ordained in islam, them women chooses to wear it. Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date?

hijab /= burqa or niqab

About time you guys read that memo.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 2:26pm:

hijab /= burqa or niqab About time you guys read that memo.

And about time muslim migrants recognised the culture of the host populations

and consulted a freaking atlas

wally1 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 2:25pm:

Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date?

;D

Why not? I like a bit of mystery in my women.

I like to unwrap my presents slowly, and then be surprised at what I get.

Are you offended by a piece of clothing PZ?

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 2:44pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 2:25pm: Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date? ;D Why not? I like a bit of mystery in my women. I like to unwrap my presents slowly, and then be surprised at what I get.

Maybe convert to islam and hit up the muslim matrimonial site that was endorsed by the board.

Yadda wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 1:33pm:

Women in Solidarity with Hijabs What next ? Is there going to be a campaign among non-moslem Australian women to have clitoridectomies, in support for moslem women and 'religious freedom' for moslem women ? [quote author=Yadda link=1390857768/42#42 date=1390968869] Herbert, I see it as indeed perverse [and potentially, as a criminal intent], ....that moslems, living in Australia, clearly see nothing wrong with using their own children [living in Sydney], to advocate for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt, when we know, that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, intends to make lawful, female genital mutilation, which [if the Muslim Brotherhood ever came to power in Egypt], would be performed upon young Egyptian girls, exactly like the young moslem girls living in Australia, who are advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt! I do wonder if these young moslem girls living in Australia, have any idea, have been informed by their moslem parents, of what it is, that they [those children, on the streets of Sydney, Australia] are advocating for ? i.e. [highlight]Do these young girls in Sydney, have any idea, of what it is, that they are advocating for, for their own counterparts, living in Egypt ?

Raven has seen you show support for Israel and Judaism many times on these boards. Why are you ok with them practicing genital mutilation on children but are up in arms when Islam does it? If it is acceptable for one shouldn't it also be acceptable for another?

wally1 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 2:25pm:

Gandalf mentioned the veil, not the face covering, there is a difference. Niqab is not ordained in islam, them women chooses to wear it. Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date?

So which one is ordained in Islam?


Quote:

The profit stayed with Safiya for 3 days on the way to Khaibar where he consummated his marriage with her. Safiya was amongst those who were ordered to use a veil. sunnah.com/bukhari/64/252

Muhammad ordered Safiya's husband to be tortured, they lit a fire on his chest before chopping his head off,muslims say mo was a kind man who married widows.


Quote:

If the profit makes her observe the veil, then she will be his wife, if he does not make her observe the veil then she will be his lady slave. Either way Safiya was fuked. sunnah.com/bukhari/64/253

Muhammad ordered muslim women to wear the veil, non muslims did not observe the veil in those days.

Of course the shiites don't follow Bukhari they have their own ahadith called Al Kafi which the sunni say is unreliable and reject.

If women want to show solidarity with muslim women they can shave their pubes and try female gential mutilation.

http://i.imgur.com/qbT3YKV.jpg

wally1 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 2:25pm:

sodu wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 1:21pm: 'The veil is a tool of oppression used to alienate and control women under the guise of religious freedom' This Muslim women disagrees with you. Who is in the right. My own view is: Cant be worn whilst driving. Cant be worn in any building. Just like motor bike riders helmets. dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html what you on about? Gandalf mentioned the veil, not the face covering, there is a difference. Niqab is not ordained in islam, them women chooses to wear it. Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date?

You're implying that women are only relevant when they're single and available for you to date. Are you trying to reinforce the misogynistic male Muslim stereotype?

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 5:49pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 2:25pm: Gandalf mentioned the veil, not the face covering, there is a difference. Niqab is not ordained in islam, them women chooses to wear it. Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date? So which one is ordained in Islam? Quote: The profit stayed with Safiya for 3 days on the way to Khaibar where he consummated his marriage with her. Safiya was amongst those who were ordered to use a veil. sunnah.com/bukhari/64/252 Muhammad ordered Safiya's husband to be tortured, they lit a fire on his chest before chopping his head off,muslims say mo was a kind man who married widows. [quote]If the profit makes her observe the veil, then she will be his wife, if he does not make her observe the veil then she will be his lady slave. Either way Safiya was fuked. sunnah.com/bukhari/64/253

Muhammad ordered muslim women to wear the veil, non muslims did not observe the veil in those days.

Of course the shiites don't follow Bukhari they have their own ahadith called Al Kafi which the sunni say is unreliable and reject.

If women want to show solidarity with muslim women they can shave their pubes and try female gential mutilation.


[/quote]

Safiya must of been rich if the profit stayed with her.

Raven wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 3:53pm:

Yadda wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 1:33pm: Women in Solidarity with Hijabs What next ? Is there going to be a campaign among non-moslem Australian women to have clitoridectomies, in support for moslem women and 'religious freedom' for moslem women ? [quote author=Yadda link=1390857768/42#42 date=1390968869] Herbert, I see it as indeed perverse [and potentially, as a criminal intent], ....that moslems, living in Australia, clearly see nothing wrong with using their own children [living in Sydney], to advocate for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt, when we know, that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, intends to make lawful, female genital mutilation, which [if the Muslim Brotherhood ever came to power in Egypt], would be performed upon young Egyptian girls, exactly like the young moslem girls living in Australia, who are advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt! I do wonder if these young moslem girls living in Australia, have any idea, have been informed by their moslem parents, of what it is, that they [those children, on the streets of Sydney, Australia] are advocating for ? i.e. [highlight]Do these young girls in Sydney, have any idea, of what it is, that they are advocating for, for their own counterparts, living in Egypt ? Raven has seen you show support for Israel and Judaism many times on these boards. Why are you ok with them practicing genital mutilation on children but are up in arms when Islam does it? If it is acceptable for one shouldn't it also be acceptable for another?

Because i respect Jews who try to honour the ancient covenant that their people joined, with their God.


Because do not respect the covenant that the moslem has joined with his Allah.


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06





Torah law....

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...







Torah law....

Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother

All of the above were quoted by Jesus, from the book(s) of the law, the Torah,
Exodus 20:12-16
Deuteronomy 5:16-20

And including,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
From, Leviticus 19:18

bump post

Yadda, thanks for putting your bigotry on view for everybody, again.   ::)

Yadda wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 7:17pm:

Raven wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 3:53pm: Yadda wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 1:33pm: Women in Solidarity with Hijabs What next ? Is there going to be a campaign among non-moslem Australian women to have clitoridectomies, in support for moslem women and 'religious freedom' for moslem women ? [quote author=Yadda link=1390857768/42#42 date=1390968869] Herbert, I see it as indeed perverse [and potentially, as a criminal intent], ....that moslems, living in Australia, clearly see nothing wrong with using their own children [living in Sydney], to advocate for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt, when we know, that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, intends to make lawful, female genital mutilation, which [if the Muslim Brotherhood ever came to power in Egypt], would be performed upon young Egyptian girls, exactly like the young moslem girls living in Australia, who are advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt! I do wonder if these young moslem girls living in Australia, have any idea, have been informed by their moslem parents, of what it is, that they [those children, on the streets of Sydney, Australia] are advocating for ? i.e. [highlight]Do these young girls in Sydney, have any idea, of what it is, that they are advocating for, for their own counterparts, living in Egypt ? Raven has seen you show support for Israel and Judaism many times on these boards. Why are you ok with them practicing genital mutilation on children but are up in arms when Islam does it? If it is acceptable for one shouldn't it also be acceptable for another? Because i respect Jews who try to honour the ancient covenant that their people joined, with their God. Because do not respect the covenant that the moslem has joined with his Allah. ISLAMIC LAW.... "Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) " fiqhussunnah/fus1_06 Torah law.... Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Exodus 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him... Exodus 23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger... Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself... Leviticus 25:47-49 [these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.] Deuteronomy 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Deuteronomy 10:17-19 For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 24:17 Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge: 18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing. Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger... Torah law.... Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother All of the above were quoted by Jesus, from the book(s) of the law, the Torah, Exodus 20:12-16 Deuteronomy 5:16-20 And including, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. From, Leviticus 19:18

How come the jews murder palestinians and steal arab land if the torah forbids it?

Yadda wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 7:17pm:

Raven wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 3:53pm: Yadda wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 1:33pm: Women in Solidarity with Hijabs What next ? Is there going to be a campaign among non-moslem Australian women to have clitoridectomies, in support for moslem women and 'religious freedom' for moslem women ? [quote author=Yadda link=1390857768/42#42 date=1390968869] Herbert, I see it as indeed perverse [and potentially, as a criminal intent], ....that moslems, living in Australia, clearly see nothing wrong with using their own children [living in Sydney], to advocate for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt, when we know, that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, intends to make lawful, female genital mutilation, which [if the Muslim Brotherhood ever came to power in Egypt], would be performed upon young Egyptian girls, exactly like the young moslem girls living in Australia, who are advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt! I do wonder if these young moslem girls living in Australia, have any idea, have been informed by their moslem parents, of what it is, that they [those children, on the streets of Sydney, Australia] are advocating for ? i.e. Do these young girls in Sydney, have any idea, of what it is, that they are advocating for, for their own counterparts, living in Egypt ? Raven has seen you show support for Israel and Judaism many times on these boards. Why are you ok with them practicing genital mutilation on children but are up in arms when Islam does it? If it is acceptable for one shouldn't it also be acceptable for another? [highlight]Because i respect Jews who try to honour the ancient covenant that their people joined, with their God. Because do not respect the covenant that the moslem has joined with his Allah. ISLAMIC LAW.... "Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) " fiqhussunnah/fus1_06 Torah law.... Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Exodus 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him... Exodus 23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger... Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself... Leviticus 25:47-49 [these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.] Deuteronomy 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Deuteronomy 10:17-19 For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 24:17 Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge: 18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing. Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger... Torah law.... Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother All of the above were quoted by Jesus, from the book(s) of the law, the Torah, Exodus 20:12-16 Deuteronomy 5:16-20 And including, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. From, Leviticus 19:18

So you respect genital mutilation as long as it is only perpetrated against boys?

That is evil. The very evil you say Muslims commit daily.

Your respect for this evil act is noted.

But if we are throwing around texts how do these grab you?

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.   (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you.  When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them.  Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy.  Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters.  They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods.  Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.    (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)

Continued Yadda

   You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you.  Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods.  If you do, they will trap you.  Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?'  But don't be afraid of them!  Just remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt.  Remember the great terrors the LORD your God sent against them.  You saw it all with your own eyes!  And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing power he used when he brought you out of Egypt.  The LORD your God will use this same power against the people you fear.  And then the LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still hiding from you!  "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God.  The LORD your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little.  You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild animals would multiply too quickly for you.  But the LORD your God will hand them over to you.  He will throw them into complete confusion until they are destroyed.  He will put their kings in your power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all. (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge!  Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.  "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".   (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 12:42pm:

Quote: Women In Solidarity with Hijabs campaign aims to unite Muslim and non-Muslim Australians By Natalie Whiting A new social media campaign encouraging women to take a photo of themselves wearing a head scarf to show support for Muslim women and religious freedom has been launched. Women in Solidarity with Hijabs (WISH) began nine days ago and has already attracted almost 18,000 "likes" on Facebook. It comes amid ongoing debate about banning the burkas and in an environment where reports of racial attacks against Muslim women are being made on a daily basis. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-02/campaign-uniting-muslims-and-australian-women-launched/5786814

I feel excluded. Alienated even.


Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 7:00pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 2:25pm: sodu wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 1:21pm: 'The veil is a tool of oppression used to alienate and control women under the guise of religious freedom' This Muslim women disagrees with you. Who is in the right. My own view is: Cant be worn whilst driving. Cant be worn in any building. Just like motor bike riders helmets. dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html what you on about? Gandalf mentioned the veil, not the face covering, there is a difference. Niqab is not ordained in islam, them women chooses to wear it. Most who wear it do it after marriage, so who cares of they wear it, what do we want to do, go pick them up and go for a date? You're implying that women are only relevant when they're single and available for you to date. Are you trying to reinforce the misogynistic male Muslim stereotype?

I'd say it's unavoidable.

Why is it unavoidable?

Reinforcing the misogynistic male Muslim stereotype.

Raven wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 9:40pm:

So you respect genital mutilation as long as it is only perpetrated against boys? That is evil. The very evil you say Muslims commit daily. Your respect for this evil act is noted.

Raven,

I have not been 'mutilated' myself.

I wonder if God will accept me ?


What do you think, Raven ?i



Quote:

But if we are throwing around texts how do these grab you? When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you.  When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them.  Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy.  Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters.  They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods.  Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.    (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)

Yeah.

God is an overly harsh God, isn't he !!!

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

He [God] doesn't want us [his potential children] to have anything to do with murderers and oppressors and criminals.
(Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)

Why is that ????????



Exodus 15:3
The LORD is a man of war...


Deuteronomy 32:41
If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
42  I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
43  Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.


Isaiah 42:13
The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.






Hey Raven,

Do you fear God ?       [....if he exists.           ;)      ]

Are you someone that God hates ???

Would you be worried, if you were ?







Jeremiah 17:14
Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.


Psalms 32:1
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

freediver wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 10:31pm:

Reinforcing the misogynistic male Muslim stereotype.

I asked why it is unavoidable.

My bad. Because he is a misogynistic male Muslim.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 8:03pm:

Yadda, thanks for putting your bigotry on view for everybody, again.   ::)

So someone actually reads it.

More patience than me Gunga Din!

I tried to suggest to him sometimes less is more!

I suspect most readers do as I do and move on to the next post rather than try to wade through that long list of stuff

freediver wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

My bad. Because he is a misogynistic male Muslim.

Oh. Righto then.



Walid, what you said makes you look like a purple headed warrior. If it makes sense for you that women who are not available cover their faces and slide into obscurity, then the flip side of the coin is that women who are available should be shown off like goods at a market. Do you see your mother or sisters in this way?

I wonder if the left would respond differently to this issue if they were Christian women in hijabs/burqas and not a minority ? They'd all be crying sexism.

Animal Mutha wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

I wonder if the left would respond differently to this issue if they were Christian women in hijabs/burqas and not a minority ? They'd all be crying sexism.

Yes. The left are screaming at the oppression of those nuns in habits.

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 9:12am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 8:03pm: Yadda, thanks for putting your bigotry on view for everybody, again.   ::) So someone actually reads it. More patience than me Gunga Din! I tried to suggest to him sometimes less is more! I suspect most readers do as I do and move on to the next post rather than try to wade through that long list of stuff

The key to reading Yadda I've found is that his real message is in the first few lines of his posts.  The rest is just fluff he adds to try and puff the piece up and annoy people.   Skip anything in large or coloured type and the pictures he keeps reposting.  Do that it is possible to actually make some sense out of his posts (as in being able to read them, not that they are actually sensible).   Takes some effort to divine something useful but it can be done.   ;D

As to his bigotry, that is constantly on display.   ;)

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

Animal Mutha wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:30am: I wonder if the left would respond differently to this issue if they were Christian women in hijabs/burqas and not a minority ? They'd all be crying sexism. Yes. The left are screaming at the oppression of those nuns in habits.

Nuns choose to wear those habits and have not been required to since Vatican II.  The Right refuses to recognise that the veil for most Muslim women is a choice as well.   The Right prides itself on it's claim that it supports freedom and allows choice but in reality, it is dictatorial and forces conformity on people by determining that women cannot wear what they choose, whereas the Left does the reverse.   For myself, I believe that if I am going to support the right of women to wear what they want, such as a bikini or a miniskirt, then I must also accept that some women will choose to wear the Hijab/Niquab/Burqa/etc.    It is a question of personal and religious freedom in our society.  You cannot IMHO support it for one group of women and deny it to another.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 2:52pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:12am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 8:03pm: Yadda, thanks for putting your bigotry on view for everybody, again.   ::) So someone actually reads it. More patience than me Gunga Din! I tried to suggest to him sometimes less is more! I suspect most readers do as I do and move on to the next post rather than try to wade through that long list of stuff The key to reading Yadda I've found is that his real message is in the first few lines of his posts.  The rest is just fluff he adds to try and puff the piece up and annoy people.   Skip anything in large or coloured type and the pictures he keeps reposting.  Do that it is possible to actually make some sense out of his posts (as in being able to read them, not that they are actually sensible).   Takes some effort to divine something useful but it can be done.   ;D As to his bigotry, that is constantly on display.   ;)

They key to reading Y is not to answer any of the questions he asks you. You come across a question like, "who is a Moslem?" and you start to wonder. A terrorist? A hater of Freeedom? A moon-god worshipper?

But then Y tells you the answer. "A Moslem is a Moslem". This is useful because you don’t have to think too hard.

Sometimes Y addresses his answers to others. "Who is the Kuffer?"

"You, Mr Moslem, you are the Kuffer".

Y isn’t talking to me, or anyone else really, because there aren’t too many Muslim members of the board. Y is talking to those awful people with signs: "Freeeedom, go to hell"

"Behead all those who insult the prophet!"

You get the impression that Y would give them all a dressing down and put them in their place if they were there to listen, but Y tells us instead. Maybe we can pass the message on if we meet one.

The thing with the Bible quotes is authority. If Y posts a long list of quotes from the Bible, one of them might get read and make someone think a bit. Y rarely relates the quotes to his point - they’re just random passages. Y probably has some search criteria he uses that only Y can make sense of. Still, the Bible is all good, so it doesn’t really matter if the message doesn’t make sense. One day a Moslem might read that quote and convert to Karmic Christianity - Y’s brand of religion.

This would be good, because if they don’t convert, they’ll end up in hell with everybody else. Still, Y realizes quite a few souls are going there, so he’s not too worried.

Gud is great!

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

Animal Mutha wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:30am: I wonder if the left would respond differently to this issue if they were Christian women in hijabs/burqas and not a minority ? They'd all be crying sexism. Yes. The left are screaming at the oppression of those nuns in habits.

Indeed.
Exhibit(ionists) 1- the sisters of perpetual indulgence.

I am looking forward to these fearless progressives making fun of muslim beards and  niqabis at the mardi gras.
But they won’t because they, like everyone else, know that it is way too dangerous.
So they will go after the safe targets, like octogenerian nuns in habits. The Left will cheer them on.

Theo van Gogh was a libertarian progressive but he was disowned by the Left as soon as he came into conflict with sharia Islam. Hirshi Ali was abandoned by the ’progressive’ sisterhood for the same reason.
The Left will side with oppressive sharia-mongers every time when the alternative is peronal libery and freedom of expression.

Yadda wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 10:49pm:

Raven wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 9:40pm: So you respect genital mutilation as long as it is only perpetrated against boys? That is evil. The very evil you say Muslims commit daily. Your respect for this evil act is noted. Raven, I have not been 'mutilated' myself. I wonder if God will accept me ? What do you think, Raven ? You support, respect even, the physical abuse of children. Worry not Yadda there is a very special place reserved for you in the next life. Hey Raven, Do you fear God ?       [....if he exists.           ;)      ] Are you someone that God hates ??? Would you be worried, if you were ?

No

No

No

Peronal libery, eh? Sounds enticing, old boy.

Is there a cure for that, or do we just administer an enema and hope for the best?

Yadda wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 10:49pm:

Yeah. God is an overly harsh God, isn't he !!! The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He [God] doesn't want us [his potential children] to have anything to do with murderers and oppressors and criminals. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT) Why is that ???????? Because he prefers for his own children [potential children] to be to be the murderers and oppressors and criminals. Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war... Deuteronomy 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. 42  I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy. 43  Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people. Isaiah 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

So how is your God any different to the Muslim God? (HINT: The correct answer is no different)

They are both Gods of War, advocating the destruction of those that oppose Them.

Your God is just the same as Allah, they both have a need to sake their bloodlust every now and then.

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 4:32pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:36am: Animal Mutha wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:30am: I wonder if the left would respond differently to this issue if they were Christian women in hijabs/burqas and not a minority ? They'd all be crying sexism. Yes. The left are screaming at the oppression of those nuns in habits. Indeed. Exhibit(ionists) 1- the sisters of perpetual indulgence. I am looking forward to these fearless progressives making fun of muslim beards and  niqabis at the mardi gras. But they won’t because they, like everyone else, know that it is way too dangerous. So they will go after the safe targets, like octogenerian nuns in habits. The Left will cheer them on. Theo van Gogh was a libertarian progressive but he was disowned by the Left as soon as he came into conflict with sharia Islam. Hirshi Ali was abandoned by the ’progressive’ sisterhood for the same reason. The Left will side with oppressive sharia-mongers every time when the alternative is peronal libery and freedom of expression.

The Sisters don't wear habits to protest the sexist oppression of nuns. That was the point of the posters question.

I don't deny that it's dangerous to mock Islam. Or not even mock it - look at Rushdie. I agree that it's wrong. You'll have to look for an argument somewhere else on that one.

Quote:

I don't deny that it's dangerous to mock Islam. Or not even mock it - look at Rushdie. I agree that it's wrong. You'll have to look for an argument somewhere else on that one.

Gandalf won't deny it either. He won't even see the question.

Raven wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 3:27am:

Yadda wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 10:49pm: Yeah. God is an overly harsh God, isn't he !!! The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He [God] doesn't want us [his potential children] to have anything to do with murderers and oppressors and criminals. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT) Why is that ???????? Because he prefers for his own children [potential children] to be to be the murderers and oppressors and criminals. Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war... Deuteronomy 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. 42  I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy. 43  Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people. Isaiah 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. So how is your God any different to the Muslim God? (HINT: The correct answer is no different) They are both Gods of War, advocating the destruction of those that oppose Them. Your God is just the same as Allah, they both have a need to sake their bloodlust every now and then.

Raven,

Your argument is a nonsense.




To realise that, you only need to compare the tenets and laws of Judaism and/or Christianity, compared to the tenets and laws of ISLAM.

e.g.
The teachings of Jesus have - NO - equivalence, in the teachings of Mohammed.


"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




And Torah has - NO - equivalence, in the laws of Allah/ISLAM.

e.g.
The law of ISLAM, declares all mankind who reject ISLAM, to be the servants of SATAN, and therefore WORTHY OF DEATH. [Koran 4.74-76]

In that single 'inerrant' proposition, ISLAM makes moslem violence against infidels 'LAWFUL' [AND, also makes the moslem murder of infidels 'LAWFUL'] !

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


".......And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76




There is - NO - equivalence [in law] in Judaism and Christianity,     ...and ISLAM.

So, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,      ...and the 'Allah',    cannot be the same spirit entity.




It is true, that both Judaism [and Christianity], and ISLAM,    ....declare their 'gods' enmity and wrath against 'wrongdoers'.

But, that is the only 'similarity' of character, between the God of Judaism and Christianity, and the 'Allah' of ISLAM.

And significantly, each entity defines 'wrongdoing' differently.


Deuteronomy 10:12
And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13  To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes....


The commandments and statutes of YAHWEH are embodied, in THE EQUAL TREATMENT [in law] OF EVERY MAN WHO DRAWS BREATH.


Torah law....

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

Yadda wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 9:31am:

The commandments and statutes of YAHWEH are embodied, in THE EQUAL TREATMENT [in law] OF EVERY MAN WHO DRAWS BREATH. Torah law.... Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Exodus 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him... Exodus 23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger... Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself... Leviticus 25:47-49 [these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.] Deuteronomy 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Deuteronomy 10:17-19 For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 24:17 Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge: 18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing. Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

CONSIDER;

In ISLAM,         if a moslem 'stands beside' an infidel,    ...the moslem is accounted as innocent [because he is a moslem]     ....and the infidel is accounted as guilty [because he is NOT a moslem].

And that 'difference' [in status], is why, in a Sharia court, a non-moslem is not permitted to testify against a moslem.

Why so ?

Because to allow a non-moslem to testify against a moslem [in a Sharia court], ....IT WOULD BE AN INJUSTICE TO THE INNOCENT MOSLEM !!!!

REPEATING;
This is because the moslem is already accounted [by ISLAM] to be the innocent party/person [because he is a moslem].

!!!!!


as per Allah's 'inerrant' declaration of 'fact'....

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110




Is there any circumstance in a Sharia court, where a moslem and a non-moslem are accounted equal in law ?

No!

ISLAMIC tradition, scripture, and Sharia law instructs - the moslem - that there is no 'equality' in punishment to be applied to a moslem, and non-moslem!

Why so ?

Because such a circumstance [equality in law] would be an injustice to the moslem!

[....and this is the explanation as to why moslems HATE and DESPISE secular law systems within host non-moslem nations.    i.e. Because Western secular law systems do not - AT THE OUTSET - accredit the moslem as being the innocent party, as Sharia law demands!!!]



e.g.
In ISLAM, if a non-moslem should kill a moslem [even accidentally] it is accounted as a grave and serious crime, COMMITTED BY AN INFIDEL.

Whereas [in ISLAMIC law] if a moslem should kill a non-moslem, it is never accounted as murder [or wrongdoing] in the sight of Allah...


"I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.52.283


"I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.83.50



ISLAMIC law instructs, and 'common sense' dictates,   that there must be no 'equality' in law, to be applied to a moslem, and to a non-moslem!

Because that would be an injustice - to the 'innocent' moslem!!!

freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 7:19am:

Quote: I don't deny that it's dangerous to mock Islam. Or not even mock it - look at Rushdie. I agree that it's wrong. You'll have to look for an argument somewhere else on that one. Gandalf won't deny it either. He won't even see the question.

Gandalf sees the question and agrees with Annie.

FD loves to construct strawmen.

Either that or he really can't understand the difference between saying "you have no evidence that mainstream muslims are threatening our freedoms" and claiming that the non-mainstream muslims pose no threat to our freedoms.

After about ten pages of me asking Gandalf the same, simple question, I got two responses that were close to being direct. This is where we were up to before Gandalf changed the subject yet again:


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 7:11pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 6:46pm: can we finally have a response from you regarding your own views on whether people should have the right to depict and mock Muhammed? Your amnesia on this forum is simply breathtaking FD. For someone who seems to remember every keyboard stroke of Abu, you have remarkable lapses when it comes to discussions that were over 20 pages long. Its a loaded question - yes people should have the right to make cartoons depicting and mocking any historical figure, sacred or otherwise. But there is a fine line between free speech and vilification - and people should not have the right to use such depictions to vilify and entire group. And by the way, mainstream Australians agree with me - even more so, as most Australians support laws to protect against mere offense. I don't go that far. All been discussed before of course.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 7:26pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 5:57pm: Should the recent Muhammed cartoons be banned? No, and no one is saying it should be. You clearly miss the point of what the debate is about.

freediver wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 8:09pm:

Quote: No, and no one is saying it should be. You clearly miss the point of what the debate is about. Wow. We have no come the equivalent of two posts on this issue, hidden among pages and pages of you obfuscating. Getting back to your statement that originally prompted the question: [quote]yes people should have the right to make cartoons depicting and mocking any historical figure, sacred or otherwise. But there is a fine line between free speech and vilification - and people should not have the right to use such depictions to vilify and entire group.

Where do you draw the line? Are the cartoons OK, so long as they are not used in a certain way?[/quote]

No idea what the reference to 20 pages is about. Gandalf has spent most of the discussion pretending my question about the right to mock Muhammed is a question about whether he supports terrorism, or section 18c, or denying the holocaust - basically any question where he can provide an answer that makes him and his fellow Muslims appear mainstream.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 7:10am:

Soren wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 4:32pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:36am: Animal Mutha wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 9:30am: I wonder if the left would respond differently to this issue if they were Christian women in hijabs/burqas and not a minority ? They'd all be crying sexism. Yes. The left are screaming at the oppression of those nuns in habits. Indeed. Exhibit(ionists) 1- the sisters of perpetual indulgence. I am looking forward to these fearless progressives making fun of muslim beards and  niqabis at the mardi gras. But they won’t because they, like everyone else, know that it is way too dangerous. So they will go after the safe targets, like octogenerian nuns in habits. The Left will cheer them on. Theo van Gogh was a libertarian progressive but he was disowned by the Left as soon as he came into conflict with sharia Islam. Hirshi Ali was abandoned by the ’progressive’ sisterhood for the same reason. The Left will side with oppressive sharia-mongers every time when the alternative is peronal libery and freedom of expression. The Sisters don't wear habits to protest the sexist oppression of nuns. That was the point of the posters question. I don't deny that it's dangerous to mock Islam. Or not even mock it - look at Rushdie. I agree that it's wrong. You'll have to look for an argument somewhere else on that one.

The point is this - people are are afraid of Muslims because of Muslim terrorism.
No-one dares to dress in a niqab on a Mardi Gras float.  No one inDenmark was game to publish a book for children with drawing of Mohammed in it - that was the origin of the cartoons - they were astonished about the cowardice to cross Islam before the cartoon riots.


Nobody is afraid of mocking Christians because there is no danger in taking the Mickey Brian. It is safe.

freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 3:55pm:

Gandalf has spent most of the discussion pretending my question about the right to mock Muhammed is a question about whether he supports terrorism, or section 18c, or denying the holocaust - basically any question where he can provide an answer that makes him and his fellow Muslims appear mainstream.

As opposed to FD, who pretends to articulate the sentiments of mainstream Australian muslims without a shred of evidence - apart from confused garble about the OIC (not affiliated in any way with Australia) or what Gandalf allegedly said or attempting to draw some sort of contrast with mainstream Australians using the 18c debate - even though that debate demonstrated that mainstream Aussies are the exact same enemies of freedom that FD pins on muslims, and muslims alone.

He comes up with absolute gems like muslims are "chipping away" at our freedoms "at every opportunity" - an outrageously unsubstantiated and unjustified claim, which when pressed can only come up with a twisted version of islamic doctrine that muslims overwhelmingly *DON'T* share - as his "evidence".

All the while he either ignores are jumps hoops to spinelessly apologise for actual threats to our freedom - like the outlawing of holocaust denial, and the new anti-terrorism laws - which actual non-hypocritical campaigners for civil liberties have denounced.

bump

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 12:42pm:

A new social media campaign encouraging women to take a photo of themselves wearing a head scarf to show support for Muslim women and religious freedom has been launched.

Here's another ignorant leftwing journalist who hasn't done her homework ... (being enthusiastically championed by gandalf as yet another Useful Idiot, despite knowing she hasn't a clue what she's talking about).

The hijab has nothing to do with 'religious freedom' as it's nothing more than a cultural affectation that even their own Islamic scholars concede is a piece of sartorial idiosyncrasy.

If the hijab is a religious imperative, then all Muslim women would be wearing it, instead of only a minority of immigrant Muslim women.

The head of the Cairo university once banned the hijab being worn on campus because it was nothing but a piece of frippery ('showy or unnecessary ornament in architecture, dress, or language') ~ and did nothing but promote division and animosity. 

Nice try, gandalf, but no sheeps' eye-balls in goat's curd this time.

wally1 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 3:03pm:

Maybe convert to islam and hit up the muslim matrimonial site that was endorsed by the board.

Hey! I'm up for anything at this time in my life. My Muslim workmates wanted me to convert, but then I told them it wouldn't be any good because I'm an atheist. They left me alone after that. They knew the Great Satan had claimed me for His own, and I was beyond redemption.   

Yadda wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 9:31am:

Raven wrote on Oct 5th, 2014 at 3:27am: Yadda wrote on Oct 3rd, 2014 at 10:49pm: Yeah. God is an overly harsh God, isn't he !!! The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He [God] doesn't want us [his potential children] to have anything to do with murderers and oppressors and criminals. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT) Why is that ???????? Because he prefers for his own children [potential children] to be to be the murderers and oppressors and criminals. Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war... Deuteronomy 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. 42  I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy. 43  Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people. Isaiah 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. So how is your God any different to the Muslim God? (HINT: The correct answer is no different) They are both Gods of War, advocating the destruction of those that oppose Them. Your God is just the same as Allah, they both have a need to sake their bloodlust every now and then. Raven, Your argument is a nonsense.

Setting aside your scripture fluff piece. All you've shown is that your "God" is nothing more then an abusive parent you see on the news fronting Court

If you don't do what your "God" says he will put you in a pit filled with fire and smoke and torture and abuse and anguish and horror and you will spend eternity in this pit in pain and suffering, choking and crying until the end of time

But he LOVES you!!

It's nothing more then those parents sentenced to jail for locking their child in a closet for 10 years. "I only did it because I loved my child" ::)

Your "God" is a false God. Any "God" that uses fear in order to ensure obedience is a false "God". Any "God" that advocates child genital mutilation is a false "God" 

It is Raven's sincere hope you realise the evil of the child torture you so respect, and speak out against it as much as you do about Muslims.

Raven wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 5:11am:

Setting aside your scripture fluff piece. All you've shown is that your "God" is nothing more then an abusive parent you see on the news fronting Court If you don't do what your "God" says he will put you in a pit filled with fire and smoke and torture and abuse and anguish and horror and you will spend eternity in this pit in pain and suffering, choking and crying until the end of time But he LOVES you!!

Yes, God is love.

And God loves us.

But if we persist in being 'naughty', God is going to kill us.       :D

Why should you be shocked, at such a proposition ?        :)





Raven,

[Though many men deny it....] God is God, and we are not!

God is our creator !

Jeremiah 18:1
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2  Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3  Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5  Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6  O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7  At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8  If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
.....
.....
11  Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.
12  And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.








Quote:

It's nothing more then those parents sentenced to jail for locking their child in a closet for 10 years. "I only did it because I loved my child" ::) Your "God" is a false God. Any "God" that uses fear in order to ensure obedience is a false "God". Any "God" that advocates child genital mutilation is a false "God"  It is Raven's sincere hope you realise the evil of the child torture you so respect, and speak out against it as much as you do about Muslims.

We are all the potential children of God.

And God has put a spirit in us, to understand.

But instead of walking a path of understanding, we choose to spit in Gods face, at to shout;

"Get out of my way [father]! This is my life! I will do, exactly what I want to do here!!!!"


OK.

Do what pleases you.








2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Who is 'the son of perdition' ?

Is it the 'anti-Christ' ????

;D       ;D       ;D      


Who, is the unpenitent person  - 'who exalts himself above all that is called God'?




Ezekiel 12:2
Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.


Jeremiah 5:21
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:


Jeremiah 5:25
Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.
26  For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
27  As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.
28  They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
29  Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
30  A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31  The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?







Cometh the harvest of the earth.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

bump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VoBNmF8qe0

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 10:26am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 5th, 2014 at 6:57pm: bump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VoBNmF8qe0

Soren,

Those two women were demonstrating the fact that many Parisians are tolerant people - no more than that.



QUESTIONS;
#1,
Assuming firstly that those women were moslem, would those women dare to attend their mosque dressed like that ?

#2,
If moslem women attended their mosque [IN PARIS] dressed like that, how would moslem men at the mosque treat them, if they did ??????????

For Facebook users interested in learning about Australian Muslims, there's an excellent community page:

https://www.facebook.com/AustralianMuslimFaces?fref=ts

I'm not sure if you can still access it without a Facebook account, but it's definitely well worth a look.

Increasingly this debate seems to be more about non-Muslims imposing on Muslim women their values and beliefs, rather than the claimed idea that they are actually freeing them from oppression.  All that is happening is the trade of one oppression for another.   The wishes of the Muslim women seemed to be ignored.  So much for the principles of choice and living in a pluralist society!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

For Facebook users interested in learning about Australian Muslims, there's an excellent community page: https://www.facebook.com/AustralianMuslimFaces?fref=ts I'm not sure if you can still access it without a Facebook account, but it's definitely well worth a look.

It sure is.

Quite a few fundamentalists there, but not all.

PS. Needless to say, wearing any kind of 'religious' garb is flagging oneself as a fundamentalist.

The Moderates are the ones who are perfectly happy to assimilate with the Australian mainstream without needing to parade themselves as belonging to an exclusive and insular community that rejects identification with the mainstream.

It hasn't been Muslim women without hijabs who have been abusing our soldiers in uniform.

Ostentatious religiosity and piety through the 'bill-boarding' of oneself as a 'Muslim' through wearing hijabs and the like is a declaration of fundamentalism trumping the fact of living in a secular society.

Own-goal again, Annie.  :)

What was the first thing you did when you wanted to rejoin the 'moderates'?

Threw away your hijab.

|dev|null wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:10pm:

Increasingly this debate seems to be more about non-Muslims imposing on Muslim women their values and beliefs, rather than the claimed idea that they are actually freeing them from oppression.  All that is happening is the trade of one oppression for another.   The wishes of the Muslim women seemed to be ignored.  So much for the principles of choice and living in a pluralist society!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

I am Muslim by birth and I find the burqa confronting. I even wish no women would wear it. Does that make me a bigot?...

..Why is the battle for Muslim women's rights being fought by non-Muslims? The defence of the burqa by Hardy, Paris and others is, more than likely, propelled by their desire not to malign Muslims. What they fail to consider is that criticism of the burqa is not necessarily an attack on Islam.Shortly after Abbott's comments, Ameer Ali, a vice-president of the Regional Islamic Da'wah Council of South-East Asia and the Pacific, advocated for a burqa ban, calling it ''the lingering relic of a patriarchal, misogynistic and tribal culture'' and saying it has no basis in the Koran. 

While many Muslims might disagree with Ali, his comments highlight that even within Islam the burqa is a contentious issue. It is precisely Muslims such as Ali who should be discussing it but Ali faces a backlash from the Muslim community because the burqa has become such an albatross around its neck that Muslims would prefer that no one mention it at all.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/burqa-defenders-paradox-of-injustice-20100812-121bm.html#ixzz3FF37SVo7

This was written in 2010. Nothing has changed here. In Europe, France, Holland and Belgium have banned face covering. 

2009, France."The problem of the burka is not a religious problem, it's a problem of liberty and women's dignity. It's not a religious symbol, but a sign of subservience and debasement. I want to say solemnly, the burka is not welcome in France. In our country, we can't accept women prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity. That's not our idea of freedom."

There was raucous applause from MPs and senators. Sarkozy backed the setting up of a parliamentary commission on the issue of full Islamic veils, calling for all arguments to be heard. "But I tell you, we must not be ashamed of our values. We must not be afraid of defending them," he said.

Earlier in his speech, he warned against stigmatising religion in secular France. "We must not fight the wrong battle. In the republic, the Muslim religion must be respected as much as other religions."

Muslim headscarves and all religious symbols were banned in schools in 2004, and the latest row over religious dress is likely to spark more soul-searching and controversy in France.

So, if we ban Niqab/Burqa Sensei, will that mean we should ban?

http://imageshack.com/a/img743/7953/m3LhFZ.jpg

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/images/thumb/f/f8/Sikh_lady.jpg/300px-Sikh_lady.jpg

http://solidglow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sikh_by_Daniel_echeverri.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Bundesarchiv_Bild_121-0320,_Krakau,_Gef%C3%A4ngnis_Montelupich,_Klosterschwester.jpg

http://www.buddhisma2z.com/images/R/robes.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hhaLE-z9eE8/TgBlAR6NugI/AAAAAAAAAPc/bNCIxZy5xGI/s1600/Russian+priest.jpg

http://www.gocregina.com/assets/Images/Fr.%20Spiridon%20Photo%20JPG%20288x432(content).jpg

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/01/12/1225818/248187-brethren.jpg

http://sos-arsenic.net/images/puja19.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Vmj4CvCACH0/S7G3KHoggYI/AAAAAAAAAjg/__SgTMmPKl0/s1600/article-1221173-00595D0A00000258-788_233x423.jpg

https://img1.etsystatic.com/016/0/6766019/il_340x270.416407023_nhcp.jpg

Are they all "fundamentalists", Sensei?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D :D

http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg

I can see their faces, Stupid 3!!!

wally1 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:55pm:

http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg

Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves??

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:57pm:

I can see their faces, Stupid 3!!!

That wasn't the criteria that Sensei Herbert used in criticising the Niqab/Burqa, silly Islamophobe.   Please do try and keep up with the conversation.    ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:06pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 12:55pm: http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves??

Nothing wrong with a lady with nice booty.

wally1 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 1:06pm: wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 12:55pm: http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves?? Nothing wrong with a lady with nice booty.

I feel sorry for these girls if a certain kind of Muslim catches up with them. They'll be lucky to escape with their lives. Making fun of Islam, and exposing it to ridicule in the way that they have would be fairly intolerable to immigrant Muslims from certain Middle Eastern rural areas.

It was very ignorant of them to do that.

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:06pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 12:55pm: http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves??

Midi? Booty?

We've been wrong all this time. You're really a gay hip hop artist.

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 3:54pm: Soren wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 1:06pm: wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 12:55pm: http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves?? Nothing wrong with a lady with nice booty. I feel sorry for these girls if a certain kind of Muslim catches up with them. They'll be lucky to escape with their lives. Making fun of Islam, and exposing it to ridicule in the way that they have would be fairly intolerable to immigrant Muslims from certain Middle Eastern rural areas. It was very ignorant of them to do that.

It is always one way with such immigrants.They know all their entitlements and rights but noy their obligations towards the countries that took them in.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 1:06pm: wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 12:55pm: http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves?? Midi? Booty? We've been wrong all this time. You're really a gay hip hop artist.

Using wally-appropriate lingo.

Yadda wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Raven wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 5:11am: Setting aside your scripture fluff piece. All you've shown is that your "God" is nothing more then an abusive parent you see on the news fronting Court If you don't do what your "God" says he will put you in a pit filled with fire and smoke and torture and abuse and anguish and horror and you will spend eternity in this pit in pain and suffering, choking and crying until the end of time But he LOVES you!! Yes, God is love. And God loves us. But if we persist in being 'naughty', God is going to kill us.       :D Why should you be shocked, at such a proposition ?        :) Raven isn't shocked it's exactly what he would expect from a false deity who is undeserving of humanity's worship. Raven, [Though many men deny it....] God is God, and we are not! God is our creator ! Scripture filler Quote: It's nothing more then those parents sentenced to jail for locking their child in a closet for 10 years. "I only did it because I loved my child" ::) Your "God" is a false God. Any "God" that uses fear in order to ensure obedience is a false "God". Any "God" that advocates child genital mutilation is a false "God"  It is Raven's sincere hope you realise the evil of the child torture you so respect, and speak out against it as much as you do about Muslims. We are all the potential children of God. And God has put a spirit in us, to understand. But instead of walking a path of understanding, we choose to spit in Gods face, at to shout; "Get out of my way [father]! This is my life! I will do, exactly what I want to do here!!!!" OK. Do what pleases you. It is human nature to want to spit in the face of an abusive "Father" Scripture filler Cometh the harvest of the earth.

Quoting scripture doesn't make you any more of a Christian then standing in a garage makes you a car.

Yadda it appears we are at an impasse

You will never convince Raven that your god isn't a bloodthirsty creature advocating child murder and genital mutilation

And Raven will never convince you that you are a hypocrite.

Go in peace Yadda

Y’s a Karmic Christian, Raven.

We all wish him peace.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 5th, 2014 at 3:55pm: Gandalf has spent most of the discussion pretending my question about the right to mock Muhammed is a question about whether he supports terrorism, or section 18c, or denying the holocaust - basically any question where he can provide an answer that makes him and his fellow Muslims appear mainstream. As opposed to FD, who pretends to articulate the sentiments of mainstream Australian muslims without a shred of evidence - apart from confused garble about the OIC (not affiliated in any way with Australia) or what Gandalf allegedly said or attempting to draw some sort of contrast with mainstream Australians using the 18c debate - even though that debate demonstrated that mainstream Aussies are the exact same enemies of freedom that FD pins on muslims, and muslims alone. He comes up with absolute gems like muslims are "chipping away" at our freedoms "at every opportunity" - an outrageously unsubstantiated and unjustified claim, which when pressed can only come up with a twisted version of islamic doctrine that muslims overwhelmingly *DON'T* share - as his "evidence". All the while he either ignores are jumps hoops to spinelessly apologise for actual threats to our freedom - like the outlawing of holocaust denial, and the new anti-terrorism laws - which actual non-hypocritical campaigners for civil liberties have denounced.

Gandalf, have you found an example of one of our Muslim leaders defending the right to depict and mock Muhammed? What about a non-Mulim speaking out in opposition to this right? You said it would be easy. Better still, have you figured out under what circumstances your personally would permit people this right?

never mind FD - continue merrily missing the point.

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2014 at 10:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 5th, 2014 at 6:55pm: freediver wrote on Oct 5th, 2014 at 3:55pm: Gandalf has spent most of the discussion pretending my question about the right to mock Muhammed is a question about whether he supports terrorism, or section 18c, or denying the holocaust - basically any question where he can provide an answer that makes him and his fellow Muslims appear mainstream. As opposed to FD, who pretends to articulate the sentiments of mainstream Australian muslims without a shred of evidence - apart from confused garble about the OIC (not affiliated in any way with Australia) or what Gandalf allegedly said or attempting to draw some sort of contrast with mainstream Australians using the 18c debate - even though that debate demonstrated that mainstream Aussies are the exact same enemies of freedom that FD pins on muslims, and muslims alone. He comes up with absolute gems like muslims are "chipping away" at our freedoms "at every opportunity" - an outrageously unsubstantiated and unjustified claim, which when pressed can only come up with a twisted version of islamic doctrine that muslims overwhelmingly *DON'T* share - as his "evidence". All the while he either ignores are jumps hoops to spinelessly apologise for actual threats to our freedom - like the outlawing of holocaust denial, and the new anti-terrorism laws - which actual non-hypocritical campaigners for civil liberties have denounced. Gandalf, have you found an example of one of our Muslim leaders defending the right to depict and mock Muhammed? What about a non-Mulim speaking out in opposition to this right? You said it would be easy. Better still, have you figured out under what circumstances your personally would permit people this right?

Are you saying you want an example of a non-Muslim speaking out against mocking Muhammad?

Well I think FD wants a non-muslim who specifically says they should not have the right to mock Muhammad.

Apparently this will prove something. What that is I have no idea.

I mean FD himself knows they are out there - he calls them "spineless apologists" and he rails against them every day. Now he is demanding I prove they exist? Go figure. FD debating innit  :P

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 9^th, 2014 at 10:10am:

Well I think FD wants a non-muslim who specifically says they should not have the right to mock Muhammad. Apparently this will prove something. What that is I have no idea. I mean FD himself knows they are out there - he calls them "spineless apologists" and he rails against them every day. Now he is demanding I prove they exist? Go figure. FD debating innit  :P

Does he mean like when the Archbishop of Canterbury demanded that the recently abolished blasphemy law of the UK should be expanded to cover/protect Islam in response to the Rushdie affair?

Fashion conscious 'Hipster Hijabis' reinvent Muslim dress code at Dubai fashion festival   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

People got just fine for thousands of years without religion.

Dramas started once we decided one god was better then another god

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge45R9qoW_Y

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 1:06pm: wally1 wrote on Oct 6th, 2014 at 12:55pm: http://i.imgur.com/XFdDuXD.jpg Figure hugging midi skirt, tight around the booty???  No gloves?? Midi? Booty? We've been wrong all this time. You're really a gay hip hop artist.

No.  That was always my first guess.