Defence Force personnel must give up leave in return for below inflation wage offer

Date
    October 10, 2014


Australian Defence Force personnel have been offered a wage increase of 1.5 per cent a year.

The federal government is asking Australia's soldiers, sailors and air force personnel to accept wage deal of less than half the rate of inflation and to give up some of their workplace entitlements, just days after committing the nation's armed forces to war in Iraq.      :(

The nation's 57,000 men and women in uniform will have to give up some of their Christmas and recreational leave in order to get the pay rise of just 1.5 per cent a year over the next three years.

The Chief of the Defence Force Mark Binskin told the military on Friday morning that he expected discontent in the ranks over the offer but said it was "as good an outcome as I can negotiate in the current climate".

Air Chief Marshal Binskin said the army, navy and air force will be expected to make other "productivity gains" in order to qualify for the below cost-living wage deal.


ACM Binskin told his troops by email on Friday morning that 1.5 per cent per year was a "fair and reasonable" pay rise in the present environment of wage restraint in the Commonwealth public sector.

"While there is no doubt that the ADF provides a unique service to the nation, we must operate within the government's wage framework when considering any remuneration package," ACM Binskin wrote.

"Our salary increases are neither automatic nor are they an entitlement and we too need to demonstrate that increases to our salaries are premised on improvements in productivity and efficiency.

ACM Binskin said that he was asking his men and women to give up some of their leave entitlements as an offset against the pay rise.      :(

"One of the things we will offer up is one of the approved leave days over the Christmas period. Another is the removal of extra recreational leave  provisions," he wrote.

"I know that leave is important to all ADF members and I have not taken this decision lightly.

"However, I believe that with the other leave provisions that are available, including short leave from duty, and the inequitable way that ERL has been applied across the ADF workforce in the past, these offsets are reasonable."

Military personnel are banned from union membership but early reaction from Professionals Australia which represents many members in the Defence establishment, described the offer as "outrageous".

"For the Government to put forward a pay and conditions offer for the ADF that is below inflation and strips members of leave entitlements, and other conditions, is outrageous," union official Dave Smith said.      :(

"At a time when members are being deployed their families will have less capacity to pay the bills and they will have less time to spend with their families.

"ADF members don't get a real say in this outcome and have limited representation."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/defence-force-personnel-must-give-up-leave-in-return-for-below-inflation-wage-offer-20141010-1143ia.html#ixzz3Fi7BxpNs

Members of Parliament receive automatic pay increase annually, yet those who give their lives so Politicians can collect their pay packets, can go suck!

Really makes one proud that the LNP is in power to see our deserved get less and less!

Let's see our pollies settle for 1.5% and give up a raft of their 'workplace entitlements'....

>:(

Disgraceful - they want 'productivity' increases?

More body count?  What?

This reminds me of the horror stories coming out of Gulf War II - families on food stamps.

"Yer daddy jumps out of an airplane at midnight over hostile territory for less than entry level in a bank clerk job."

Subsidised housing, rent assistance, free medical, dental, subsidised childcare, fully funded tertiary qualifications, etc, etc. Don't think our military personnel are hard done by.  If you want hard done by, look at what the Americans pay their military personnel - the lowest ranked sailors earn less than our kids earn per hour at McDonalds (around $6 an hour). Also, don't forget that when serving abroad, they get an active service allowance and if in a war zone, they get danger pay on top of their normal salary and that danger pay is 100% tax-free. My brother, who was a Private (lowest rank) in the Army in Iraq during the second Gulf War for six months earned nearly $30,000 in tax-free danger pay. They actually have it quite good.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 11:27am:

Subsidised housing, rent assistance, free medical, dental, subsidised childcare, fully funded tertiary qualifications, etc, etc. Don't think our military personnel are hard done by.  If you want hard done by, look at what the Americans pay their military personnel - the lowest ranked sailors earn less than our kids earn per hour at McDonalds (around $6 an hour). Also, don't forget that when serving abroad, they get an active service allowance and if in a war zone, they get danger pay on top of their normal salary and that danger pay is 100% tax-free. My brother, who was a Private (lowest rank) in the Army in Iraq during the second Gulf War for six months earned nearly $30,000 in tax-free danger pay. They actually have it quite good.

Really hard done by, their intestines are spread across the ground in sacrifice, so you can stick you four inches up somebodies wife, hip hip hoorah for you!~

being in the ADF is one of the safest jobs around. Statistically, the  mining industry is far more dangerous. the benefits and pay are far too generous for the average grunt  in my opinion. these guys do 20 years of sitting behind a desk or cooking potatos and get to retire on a pension for life.

DaS Energy wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 1:28pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 11:27am: Subsidised housing, rent assistance, free medical, dental, subsidised childcare, fully funded tertiary qualifications, etc, etc. Don't think our military personnel are hard done by.  If you want hard done by, look at what the Americans pay their military personnel - the lowest ranked sailors earn less than our kids earn per hour at McDonalds (around $6 an hour). Also, don't forget that when serving abroad, they get an active service allowance and if in a war zone, they get danger pay on top of their normal salary and that danger pay is 100% tax-free. My brother, who was a Private (lowest rank) in the Army in Iraq during the second Gulf War for six months earned nearly $30,000 in tax-free danger pay. They actually have it quite good. Really hard done by, their intestines are spread across the ground in sacrifice, so you can stick you four inches up somebodies wife, hip hip hoorah for you!~

If you think they do what they do for the money, you've got rocks in your head.

ian wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

being in the ADF is one of the safest jobs around. Statistically, the  mining industry is far more dangerous. the benefits and pay are far too generous for the average grunt  in my opinion. these guys do 20 years of sitting behind a desk or cooking potatos and get to retire on a pension for life.

No pensions for life anymore. 

ian wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

being in the ADF is one of the safest jobs around. Statistically, the  mining industry is far more dangerous. the benefits and pay are far too generous for the average grunt  in my opinion. these guys do 20 years of sitting behind a desk or cooking potatos and get to retire on a pension for life.

You're wrong there. In the last 20-odd years, more SAS soldiers have died in training exercises than in battle, such is the level of difficulty and realism their training necessarily involves. Your comments show you clearly have absolutely no freaking idea what goes on in the military.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:15pm:

ian wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:06pm: being in the ADF is one of the safest jobs around. Statistically, the  mining industry is far more dangerous. the benefits and pay are far too generous for the average grunt  in my opinion. these guys do 20 years of sitting behind a desk or cooking potatos and get to retire on a pension for life. You're wrong there. In the last 20-odd years, more SAS soldiers have died in training exercises than in battle, such is the level of difficulty and realism their training necessarily involves. Your comments show you clearly have absolutely no freaking idea what goes on in the military.

Of course, the SAS is dangerous but thats not what I posted. if you take the ADF as a whole it is one of the safest jobs around. You people have SAS on the brains, the ADf is comprised of around 80,000 personnel, the vast majority of these people are not SAS and perform roles supporting those who actually may go into battle. like I said one of the cushiest and safest jobs around, no dispute.

Datalife wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:15pm:

ian wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:06pm: being in the ADF is one of the safest jobs around. Statistically, the  mining industry is far more dangerous. the benefits and pay are far too generous for the average grunt  in my opinion. these guys do 20 years of sitting behind a desk or cooking potatos and get to retire on a pension for life. No pensions for life anymore.

really? i happen to work with a few who did their 20 years and are getting thier pensions.

ian wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:23pm:

Datalife wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:15pm: ian wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:06pm: being in the ADF is one of the safest jobs around. Statistically, the  mining industry is far more dangerous. the benefits and pay are far too generous for the average grunt  in my opinion. these guys do 20 years of sitting behind a desk or cooking potatos and get to retire on a pension for life. No pensions for life anymore.  really? i happen to work with a few who did their 20 years and are getting thier pensions.

I am one of them, the DFRDB super system, that was changed to a system that gives you a bigger payout but no lifetime pension.  Those who were in at the time were given the option to opt in or stay under the old system.

Yes Datalife, that is similar to the Australian Public Service who have now moved to an Accumulation Fund (in their case 15.4% super guarantee)  which accumulates to a lump sum but no guaranteed indexed pension like the old schemes.

still a nice handshake after 20 years. my point is that many who actually do put their life on the line for the public every day in non ADF  jobs get nothing.

wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

Defence Force personnel must give up leave in return for below inflation wage offer Date     October 10, 2014 Australian Defence Force personnel have been offered a wage increase of 1.5 per cent a year. The federal government is asking Australia's soldiers, sailors and air force personnel to accept wage deal of less than half the rate of inflation and to give up some of their workplace entitlements, just days after committing the nation's armed forces to war in Iraq.      :( The nation's 57,000 men and women in uniform will have to give up some of their Christmas and recreational leave in order to get the pay rise of just 1.5 per cent a year over the next three years. The Chief of the Defence Force Mark Binskin told the military on Friday morning that he expected discontent in the ranks over the offer but said it was "as good an outcome as I can negotiate in the current climate". Air Chief Marshal Binskin said the army, navy and air force will be expected to make other "productivity gains" in order to qualify for the below cost-living wage deal. ACM Binskin told his troops by email on Friday morning that 1.5 per cent per year was a "fair and reasonable" pay rise in the present environment of wage restraint in the Commonwealth public sector. "While there is no doubt that the ADF provides a unique service to the nation, we must operate within the government's wage framework when considering any remuneration package," ACM Binskin wrote. "Our salary increases are neither automatic nor are they an entitlement and we too need to demonstrate that increases to our salaries are premised on improvements in productivity and efficiency. ACM Binskin said that he was asking his men and women to give up some of their leave entitlements as an offset against the pay rise.      :( "One of the things we will offer up is one of the approved leave days over the Christmas period. Another is the removal of extra recreational leave  provisions," he wrote. "I know that leave is important to all ADF members and I have not taken this decision lightly. "However, I believe that with the other leave provisions that are available, including short leave from duty, and the inequitable way that ERL has been applied across the ADF workforce in the past, these offsets are reasonable." Military personnel are banned from union membership but early reaction from Professionals Australia which represents many members in the Defence establishment, described the offer as "outrageous". "For the Government to put forward a pay and conditions offer for the ADF that is below inflation and strips members of leave entitlements, and other conditions, is outrageous," union official Dave Smith said.      :( "At a time when members are being deployed their families will have less capacity to pay the bills and they will have less time to spend with their families. "ADF members don't get a real say in this outcome and have limited representation." Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/defence-force-personnel-must-give-up-leave-in-return-for-below-inflation-wage-offer-20141010-1143ia.html#ixzz3Fi7BxpNs

I suggest the soldiers do about 8% less work to make up for it.

from what Ive seen Booby that would be quite difficult.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 11:27am:

Subsidised housing, rent assistance, free medical, dental, subsidised childcare, fully funded tertiary qualifications, etc, etc. Don't think our military personnel are hard done by.  If you want hard done by, look at what the Americans pay their military personnel - the lowest ranked sailors earn less than our kids earn per hour at McDonalds (around $6 an hour). Also, don't forget that when serving abroad, they get an active service allowance and if in a war zone, they get danger pay on top of their normal salary and that danger pay is 100% tax-free. My brother, who was a Private (lowest rank) in the Army in Iraq during the second Gulf War for six months earned nearly $30,000 in tax-free danger pay. They actually have it quite good.

If you think they have it so good, why don't you sign up?

Bam wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 5:28pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 11:27am: Subsidised housing, rent assistance, free medical, dental, subsidised childcare, fully funded tertiary qualifications, etc, etc. Don't think our military personnel are hard done by.  If you want hard done by, look at what the Americans pay their military personnel - the lowest ranked sailors earn less than our kids earn per hour at McDonalds (around $6 an hour). Also, don't forget that when serving abroad, they get an active service allowance and if in a war zone, they get danger pay on top of their normal salary and that danger pay is 100% tax-free. My brother, who was a Private (lowest rank) in the Army in Iraq during the second Gulf War for six months earned nearly $30,000 in tax-free danger pay. They actually have it quite good. If you think they have it so good, why don't you sign up?

I'd love to but it isn't possible with hearing in only one ear, unfortunately. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to be a RAAF pilot.

Double Up.





 

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Bam wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 5:28pm: [quote author=ArmchairPolitician link=1412913259/4#4 date=1412990821]Subsidised housing, rent assistance, free medical, dental, subsidised childcare, fully funded tertiary qualifications, etc, etc. Don't think our military personnel are hard done by.  If you want hard done by, look at what the Americans pay their military personnel - the lowest ranked sailors earn less than our kids earn per hour at McDonalds (around $6 an hour). Also, don't forget that when serving abroad, they get an active service allowance and if in a war zone, they get danger pay on top of their normal salary and that danger pay is 100% tax-free. My brother, who was a Private (lowest rank) in the Army in Iraq during the second Gulf War for six months earned nearly $30,000 in tax-free danger pay. They actually have it quite good. If you think they have it so good, why don't you sign up?

I'd love to but it isn't possible with hearing in only one ear, unfortunately. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to be a RAAF pilot.[/quoteMy son is a throttle jockey, and ooh it makes me so proud to know you believe he paid too much for keeping you safe in the lifestyle you now have! 

They should be happy with what they get for putting them self on the frontline and jeopardising their safety, utter disgrace they want more than a retail worker .

ian wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:37pm:

from what Ive seen Bobby that would be quite difficult.

Why - just march 8% slower - dig 8% less size trenches  etc.

Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer

And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 12^th, 2014 at 7:34am:

Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace.

Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again!

ian wrote on Oct 11^th, 2014 at 2:37pm:

from what Ive seen Booby that would be quite difficult.

Only shoot off 700 of every 800 rounds of ammo.
700 lbs of fuel instead 800 for the jets.
100 out of every 800 sailors to swim behind the ship.

Sssssimple......

;)

Disgraceful behaviour from this government. First they drag us into a war we have no business being in, and then they want to cut pay to soldiers ?....

What exactly is this war going to cost us? Call the soldiers and planes back and use the money you save to pay the defence personnel properly

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again!

I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable.

They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ?

John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2014 at 3:21pm:

Disgraceful behaviour from this government. First they drag us into a war we have no business being in, and then they want to cut pay to soldiers ?.... What exactly is this war going to cost us? Call the soldiers and planes back and use the money you save to pay the defence personnel properly

traitors lke yourslef should be hung

Dnarever wrote on Oct 12^th, 2014 at 3:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ?

We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 6:52am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for.

I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives.

The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 7:02am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap.

Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 7:22am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them.

Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF?


I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them.

rhino wrote on Oct 12^th, 2014 at 4:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Disgraceful behaviour from this government. First they drag us into a war we have no business being in, and then they want to cut pay to soldiers ?.... What exactly is this war going to cost us? Call the soldiers and planes back and use the money you save to pay the defence personnel properly traitors lke yourslef should be hung

are you upset because your dog would rather root your neighbour than you?

Dnarever wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 7:33am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them.

Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 8:00am:

rhino wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 4:04pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Disgraceful behaviour from this government. First they drag us into a war we have no business being in, and then they want to cut pay to soldiers ?.... What exactly is this war going to cost us? Call the soldiers and planes back and use the money you save to pay the defence personnel properly traitors lke yourslef should be hung are you upset because your dog would rather root your neighbour than you?

Another disturbing insight into the depraved mind of John Smith. Please keep your fantasies of bestiality to yourself in future...

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:33am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them. Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D

when the rise is less than what it should have been, it is in effect a cut.

John Smith wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 8:05am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:04am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:33am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them. Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D when the rise is less than what it should have been, it is in effect a cut.

When the rise is, in fact, more than what they received previously, it is actually a pay RISE you doofus!!!

Diggers vent fury at 'outrageous' pay offer

Date
    October 13, 2014



Australian Defence Force personnel say the government's new pay offer is "an outrage", "a disgrace" and "a joke".   :(

Thousands of sailors, soldiers and Air Force personnel have reacted with fury to being asked to give up some of their Christmas and recreational leave in order to get the pay rise of just 1.5 per cent a year over the next three years.

By Monday afternoon 7123 soldiers, sailors, Air Force personnel, reservists or their families had contacted the peak defence advocacy group with 90 per cent of them saying they "strongly disapproved" of the government's offer.




Many of the service people spoke of leaving the military as their pay and conditions deteriorated under the offer which will be considered by Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal in Canberra on Wednesday.      :o

The military's top brass told their troops that the deal, which is about half the rate of cost-of-living rises, was the best that could be expected in the current climate of public sector spending cuts.

But respondents to the Welfare Association's survey said they were "disgusted" and "outraged" at being asked to take an effective pay cut when they felt they had already made great sacrifices to serve their country.      :(

Defence Welfare Association national president David Jamison said he and his colleagues had not anticipated the angry reaction to the offer.

"It's strengthened our position to one of total opposition to what is being offered," Mr Jamison said.

"We were expecting that some people wouldn't be happy with it, but now we simply have to say that it's just not acceptable."

Mr Jamison said he and his colleagues would now strongly oppose the case, challenging the three-member remuneration tribunal to prove their independence from government.

"It's going to be interesting to see," he said.

"If they are truly independent then they have to take note of what we're saying, even though it's an agreed position between the Commonwealth and the ADF."

The Defence Welfare Association says the survey of its membership now dwarfs the official consultation carried out by the ADF before it presented the deal to 57,000 men and women in uniform.

"The consultation comprised 62 road shows, they called them, and 3000 attendees, but we're gonna have well over 8000 responses by the close of business tomorrow (Tuesday) and 90 per cent of them are saying they're dissatisfied," Mr Jamison said.

The Chief of the Defence Force Mark Binskin anticipated discontent in the ranks over the offer but said on Friday morning it was "as good an outcome as I can negotiate in the current climate".

WHAT THEY SAID:      :(

"Defence force families are being victimised."

"The idea that we need to give up entitlements in order to pay for a mediocre pay increase that doesn't even come close to inflation rates is ridiculous.

"It is downright insulting!"

"It's not an offer, it's an abomination."

"It's no longer a service, it's a business at all cost, do more with less, burn people and their families, it's a joke and it's time to move on."

"I will be getting nothing, my family will be getting nothing. Thank you senior management for not bothering to represent the soldiers you are supposed to represent."

"I'm more and more embarrassed to say I am in defence each day. The more they take away from us the faster a lot of members will be leaving."

"What the defence force gives up for the sake of our country we deserve as a minimum the 3 per cent. Even more if we have to sacrifice leave."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/diggers-vent-fury-at-outrageous-pay-offer-20141013-11576m.html#ixzz3G3l7Qhcz

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:33am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them. Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D

When it doesn't meet the rise in costs it is intended to balance.....

Grasshopper - you are stuck in the idea that the dollar value is static when it is fluid.... go with the flow....... you'll get the idea some day.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 11:22am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:04am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:33am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them. Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D when the rise is less than what it should have been, it is in effect a cut. When the rise is, in fact, more than what they received previously, it is actually a pay RISE you doofus!!!

when you grow a brain, get back to me!

rhino wrote on Oct 12^th, 2014 at 4:04pm:

traitors lke yourslef should be hung

He probably is hung going by his name, but I'm sure he appreciates your concern.

John Smith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 8:19am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:22am: John Smith wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:04am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:33am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them. Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D when the rise is less than what it should have been, it is in effect a cut. When the rise is, in fact, more than what they received previously, it is actually a pay RISE you doofus!!! when you grow a brain, get back to me!

Your surrender on this subject is noted and accepted.

Where's Swag to introduce us to the idea of the 'net wage RISE that meets the cost of living'... if it's good enough to discuss 'net taxpayers' as if they are the only ones who pay tax...... surely it's good enough to introduce the idea that only a net pay increase is the one that counts???

Am I right?  I ask you.. AM I RIGHT?

we have a trannie in charge of the RAAf now. The ADF is in  crisis. They dont need a wage rise, they need an allowance for handbags and make up .

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???

An increase which fails to match inflation is a real money cut - you end up with effectively less money than is required to match the increasing costs. The amount of money you get will buy less.

To put it simply for you, if you earn say $100 and your cost of living is $100 as a starting point.

We have some inflation and your cost of living goes up to $120 but you are offered a pay increase to $110 you are worse off in real money terms.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 10:02am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 8:19am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:22am: John Smith wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:04am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:33am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:22am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:52am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 10:55am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 7:34am: Defence Force Below Inflation Wage Offer And a few people still say that the present government are not an absolute disgrace. Trying to live within your means (instead of running up even more debt) while dealing with the appalling state of the budget left behind by your incompetent predecessor is a disgrace? Try again! I would agree with you had it been true but the fact is the current government are sending troops into war to fight for a pay cut and yes Tony and the Boys are despicable. They have no problem wasting $1.2 Million to tell lies to pensioners ? We have the capability to help these innocent people in Iraq, so why shouldn't we help? Go stick your head back in the ground - it's the only thing you're good for. I am not against helping in Iraq my comment relates to not trying to cheapskate the soldiers risking their lives. The conservatives like their cannon fodder cheap. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? Do you honestly think they do what they do for the money? My uncle served for 25 years and loved his job. He now does a similar job where he works for the QLD government and makes three times what he did in the RAAF as an officer. But even if it was about money, as I've said in a previous post, members of the ADF are certainly not hard done-by by any standard what with their generous entitlements and tax-free danger pay and so on. These men and women joined because they want to serve our country, so the least you can do is show some respect when referring to them. Could you be any more disrespectful to the members of the ADF? I doubt that you could be more disrespectful than to give them a real money pay cut while they are risking their lives, or supporting those who do it to them. Since when is a pay rise a pay cut???  :D :D :D when the rise is less than what it should have been, it is in effect a cut. When the rise is, in fact, more than what they received previously, it is actually a pay RISE you doofus!!! when you grow a brain, get back to me! Your surrender on this subject is noted and accepted.

Surrender?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

There are only so many times I am willing to tell you something, if you want to act like an idiot and ignore it don't expect me to keep coming back again and again ... it has been explained to you why it is a CUT. If you want to pretend it's not, fine, no skin off my nose. You must enjoy being the village idiot .