Quote:

THE tough talking Jacqui Lambie has urged Tony Abbott and Bill Shorten to tone down their anger against Vladimir Putin, ahead of the G20 meeting in Brisbane next month. The Tasmanian Palmer United Party Senator wants the pair to “stop acting like hormone-affected school boys trying to out macho each other on the footie field — and start acting like mature leaders of a great country”. Her comments follow the Prime Minister's vow to “shirtfront” the Russian President over the downing of MH17 in eastern Ukraine in July. “I welcome Mr Putin’s trip to Australia for the G20 meeting — while there are legitimate questions that should be answered over the shooting down of MH17 in July, a tragic event which killed 298 people, including 38 Australian citizens and residents — I don’t believe for a minute that Mr Putin would have wanted that disaster and loss of life to happen,” she said. “Mr Putin is an important and powerful world leader who must be listened to and spoken with — if we want a world for our children where peace has a chance. “He’s impressed me with his no nonsense attitude to the threat of Islamic extremism. “And unlike most Australian political leaders there’s no BS about him. “He means what he says and says what he means. It’s important to act in a mature manner and keep lines of communication open with him.”Yesterday Mr Abbott said he plans to “shirtfront” Mr Putin when the pair meet next month. “You bet I am. “I’m going to be saying to Mr Putin — Australians were murdered and they were murdered by Russian-backed rebels using Russian supplied equipment.” His remarks in Central Queensland followed Bill Shorten telling reporters he wouldn’t be giving President Putin the time of day. “How is it that the President of the Russian Federation, Putin, can thumb his nose at the rest of the world, go wherever he wants without there being any repercussions or indeed any cooperation with the independent investigation as to how this happened? “I believe Putin knows more about what happened with MH17 than he’s let on.” Ms Lambie has kinder words for Russia than she has for China. In August she suggested Australia should be prepared for a possible Chinese communist invasion. “If anybody thinks that we should have a national security and defence policy, which ignores the threat of a Chinese Communist invasion — you’re delusional and got rocks in your head,” she said. “The Communist Chinese military capacity and level of threat to the western world democracies is at an unprecedented and historical high.”

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/jacqui-lambie-wants-tony-abbott-and-bill-shorten-to-stop-trying-to-out-macho-each-other-over-vladimir-putin/story-fnihslxi-1227089611866

I like her more and more

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 8:00am:

I like her more and more

I'm not surprised ....

All Tony is going to do - from reports - is advise Mr Putin that Australians were murdered....I think he already knows that....

All wind and piss.... just big-mouthing about nothing to sound tough and serious.....

It is important for Australia not to pretend that Putin is ultimately responsible for what is happening in the Ukraine. for arming and egging on the separatist Russians who shot down the plane. To not mention this when seeing him face to face would be wrong.

The Australian cringe still alive and well!

Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat.

I suppose Tone expects Putin to undergo a sudden revelation and throw himself on the floor prostrate and beg forgiveness......

OMG - did I do that?   Oh god, oh god.... I've failed...  I'm unworthy.... can I ever forgive myself?

Nah - all he'll say is:-  "I am understanding grief of Australian over accidental shooting down of airliner in combat zone, and much regret loss of life.  When full investigation is completed, will give further comment."

Tomorrow's Headlines:-

"Putin says 'SORRY' over MH-70 Shoot Down!

Abbott forces Russian backdown!"

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 10:23am:

The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat.

Like him or not, as Jacquie says
Quote:

.........Mr Putin is an important and powerful world leader who must be listened to and spoken with .........

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 10:53am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:23am: The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat. Like him or not, as Jacquie says Quote: .........Mr Putin is an important and powerful world leader who must be listened to and spoken with .........

Anyone who thinks Putin would be offended by a bit of chin-up-ness from another world leader would be to misunderstand him. This man is a master at brinksmanship and has an arrogant disregard for the welfare of non-Russians who obstruct his expansionist ambitions.

Lambie should stick to being a mother duck in her own backyard.

Soren wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

It is important for Australia not to pretend that Putin is ultimately responsible for what is happening in the Ukraine. for arming and egging on the separatist Russians who shot down the plane. To not mention this when seeing him face to face would be wrong.

This is a Russian comment:


Quote:

The answer to that is that the atrocity happened on Ukrainian soil and it is not yet clear whether the aircraft was downed by a missile possibly fired from a position behind rebel lines, possibly not, possibly fired by rebels, possibly fired by Ukrainian Government or paramilitary forces or else downed by a military aircraft flown by the Ukrainian Air Force. In fact, why has it taken the UK so long to come clean about what happened? Does it take that long to doctor the black boxes, eh whatty what? Russia, like every other member of the international community, condemned the downing of the civilian aircraft, expressed its deep sadness at the loss of civilian lives (including children) and like everyone else fully supported the international investigation into the horrific incident. So what exactly does Mr. Abbott mean when he insinuates that Russia has not cooperated fully with the investigation? Is he trying to say that Russia was responsible for the incident? Is he following in the footsteps of the Press of his colonial master, with their idiotic and slanderous headlines blaming "Putin"? Perhaps he would like to appear in the dock alongside them when the charges are brought, which they will be...

Why are you suddenly more aware than anyone else about what brought that plane down?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:53am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:23am: The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat. Like him or not, as Jacquie says Quote: .........Mr Putin is an important and powerful world leader who must be listened to and spoken with ......... Anyone who thinks Putin would be offended by a bit of chin-up-ness from another world leader would be to misunderstand him. This man is a master at brinksmanship and has an arrogant disregard for the welfare of non-Russians who obstruct his expansionist ambitions. Lambie should stick to being a mother duck in her own backyard.

[smiley=laugh.gif] You just made my day.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

All Tony is going to do - from reports - is advise Mr Putin that Australians were murdered....I think he already knows that.... All wind and piss.... just big-mouthing about nothing to sound tough and serious.....

The meeting is held in secret, so we only have Abbotts word to trust what said, as Rolf Harris may say, trust Tony Abbott sure can!

DaS Energy wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 11:24am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 11:07am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:53am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:23am: The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat. Like him or not, as Jacquie says Quote: .........Mr Putin is an important and powerful world leader who must be listened to and spoken with ......... Anyone who thinks Putin would be offended by a bit of chin-up-ness from another world leader would be to misunderstand him. This man is a master at brinksmanship and has an arrogant disregard for the welfare of non-Russians who obstruct his expansionist ambitions. Lambie should stick to being a mother duck in her own backyard. [smiley=laugh.gif] You just made my day.

Ah... the Australian cringe... We're never quite good enough, you think?

Lambie also said she thinks Putin wants peace. Blowing airliners out of the sky and invading democratic countries is a funny way of going about achieving that goal!

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 8:00am:

Quote: THE tough talking Jacqui Lambie has urged Tony Abbott and Bill Shorten to tone down their anger against Vladimir Putin, ahead of the G20 meeting in Brisbane next month. The Tasmanian Palmer United Party Senator wants the pair to “stop acting like hormone-affected school boys trying to out macho each other on the footie field — and start acting like mature leaders of a great country”. Her comments follow the Prime Minister's vow to “shirtfront” the Russian President over the downing of MH17 in eastern Ukraine in July. “I welcome Mr Putin’s trip to Australia for the G20 meeting — while there are legitimate questions that should be answered over the shooting down of MH17 in July, a tragic event which killed 298 people, including 38 Australian citizens and residents — I don’t believe for a minute that Mr Putin would have wanted that disaster and loss of life to happen,” she said. “Mr Putin is an important and powerful world leader who must be listened to and spoken with — if we want a world for our children where peace has a chance. “He’s impressed me with his no nonsense attitude to the threat of Islamic extremism. “And unlike most Australian political leaders there’s no BS about him. “He means what he says and says what he means. It’s important to act in a mature manner and keep lines of communication open with him.”Yesterday Mr Abbott said he plans to “shirtfront” Mr Putin when the pair meet next month. “You bet I am. “I’m going to be saying to Mr Putin — Australians were murdered and they were murdered by Russian-backed rebels using Russian supplied equipment.” His remarks in Central Queensland followed Bill Shorten telling reporters he wouldn’t be giving President Putin the time of day. “How is it that the President of the Russian Federation, Putin, can thumb his nose at the rest of the world, go wherever he wants without there being any repercussions or indeed any cooperation with the independent investigation as to how this happened? “I believe Putin knows more about what happened with MH17 than he’s let on.” Ms Lambie has kinder words for Russia than she has for China. In August she suggested Australia should be prepared for a possible Chinese communist invasion. “If anybody thinks that we should have a national security and defence policy, which ignores the threat of a Chinese Communist invasion — you’re delusional and got rocks in your head,” she said. “The Communist Chinese military capacity and level of threat to the western world democracies is at an unprecedented and historical high.” http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/jacqui-lambie-wants-tony-abbott-and-bill-shorten-to-stop-trying-to-out-macho-each-other-over-vladimir-putin/story-fnihslxi-1227089611866 I like her more and more

She know he has a big kit and not afraid to use it!

So does just about everybody inside an out of Australia.

Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 11:50am:

Lambie also said she thinks Putin wants peace. Blowing airliners out of the sky and invading democratic countries is a funny way of going about achieving that goal!

Evidence please.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 11:50am:

Lambie also said she thinks Putin wants peace. Blowing airliners out of the sky and invading democratic countries is a funny way of going about achieving that goal!

Evidence please.

Indeed:

"According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the
Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A
Tomcat during an attack run; "

"All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

And the "nice people' have never apologised for it.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 12:45pm:

Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst

You wont get her on a couch unless you have a big donger!

Sort of rules most of us out!

;D ;D ;D

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 3:25pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:45pm: Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst You wont get her on a couch unless you have a big donger! Sort of rules most of us out! ;D ;D ;D

I wonder if she's ever had a look in the mirror.  Fair dinkum......you'd have to be off yer face to even consider it.

Aussie wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:25pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:45pm: Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst You wont get her on a couch unless you have a big donger! Sort of rules most of us out! ;D ;D ;D I wonder if she's ever had a look in the mirror.  Fair dinkum......you'd have to be off yer face to even consider it.

Thats why they invented beer Aussie!
:D

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 4:08pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:25pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:45pm: Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst You wont get her on a couch unless you have a big donger! Sort of rules most of us out! ;D ;D ;D I wonder if she's ever had a look in the mirror.  Fair dinkum......you'd have to be off yer face to even consider it. Thats why they invented beer Aussie! :D

Not enough beer in the world.

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 4:08pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:25pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:45pm: Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst You wont get her on a couch unless you have a big donger! Sort of rules most of us out! ;D ;D ;D I wonder if she's ever had a look in the mirror.  Fair dinkum......you'd have to be off yer face to even consider it. Thats why they invented beer Aussie! :D

Reminds me of a smart arse comment I read somewhere along the lines of someone saying to another ~ "If, when we meet, you look nothing like that image you put on FB, it is your shout until you do."

link?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 10:23am:

The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat.

Putin is what he has always been ~ a KGB agent with friends in the Russian Mafia.

The Man Without A Face: The Unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin by Masha Gessen – review

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/feb/26/vladimir-putin-masha-gessen-review

Vic wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 3:21pm:

Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it.

The US warship was actually operating in international waters.

Vic wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 3:21pm:

Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it.

The Vincennes thing was on ACI again tonight... amazing the simple errors that can creep in, and the fact (well known to some) that sometimes 'mission orientation' can mean an individual will overlook reality in the pursuit of the scenario - especially under pressure of combat, and will allow the training and the scenario to develop along unrealistic lines.

That has been, and will remain, one cause of 'blue-on-blue' incidents.

Answers to all criticisms of Jackie Lambie:-

a)  there are always paper bags.

b) Viagra might help in a pinch

c)  She WAS, after all, an MP... a body snatcher....

d)  you never know unless you give it a go.....

e)  Given enough time, Pickering, I can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.... what do you say to a wager?  Say - ten pounds I can make Miss.. Doolittle here into a facsimile of a lady in... oh.. three weeks?  Well.. good enough to pass, anyway, in polite company.... now a good bath and some clean clothes....

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

Vic wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it. The US warship was actually operating in international waters.

Overall and for most of the time, but operational awareness had degraded to the point where it had wandered in and out of Iranian national waters, as shown on its navigational plot computer.  According to the ACI story, it was inside Iranian waters at the time of the shootdown.

Regardless of its position vis a vis international boundaries, the point is clear - mistakes occur when civilian aircraft fly over contested areas, and it is hypocritical of the US to make a song and dance about MH-70 after the Vincennes shootdown.

Far better to just stick with the single MH-70 incident.  That is murky enough, and I find the unwillingness of participants in this crazy Slavic war reprehensible in not permitting a full and open investigation.

Point is - Putin is what he is - but he is a head of state, and puerile media bites hinting at confrontation without clear evidence are just that - puerile media bites.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 6:43am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 12:10am: Vic wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it. The US warship was actually operating in international waters. Overall and for most of the time, but operational awareness had degraded to the point where it had wandered in and out of Iranian national waters, as shown on its navigational plot computer.  According to the ACI story, it was inside Iranian waters at the time of the shootdown. Regardless of its position vis a vis international boundaries, the point is clear - mistakes occur when civilian aircraft fly over contested areas, and it is hypocritical of the US to make a song and dance about MH-70 after the Vincennes shootdown. Far better to just stick with the single MH-70 incident.  That is murky enough, and I find the unwillingness of participants in this crazy Slavic war reprehensible in not permitting a full and open investigation. Point is - Putin is what he is - but he is a head of state, and puerile media bites hinting at confrontation without clear evidence are just that - puerile media bites.

At least the Yanks had an inquiry.

What have the Russians done?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 3:16pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 11:50am: Lambie also said she thinks Putin wants peace. Blowing airliners out of the sky and invading democratic countries is a funny way of going about achieving that goal! Evidence please.

Irrefutable evidence straight from the horse's mouth...

Earlier, Jacqui Lambie criticised Mr Abbott’s tough talk towards Mr Putin, saying the Prime Minister is full of “testosterone and bad manners”.

The PUP member praised President Putin for what she described as his “good values”.

“In the last 24 hours he has withdrawn 17,000 troops off the Ukrainian border there and I am grateful for that and I think that is leading by example,” she said.

“He is obviously listening to the people of Russia and that is why he has withdrawn those troops.

“I think he is trying to find world peace where he possibly can and doing the best job he can do with that.”

When asked whether she admired his communist values, Senator Lambie said she admires “his leadership” and his handling of the situation between Russia and Ukraine.

http://www.news.com.au/national/jacqui-lambie-wants-tony-abbott-and-bill-shorten-to-stop-trying-to-out-macho-each-other-over-vladimir-putin/story-fncynjr2-1227089611866

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 6:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 12:10am: Vic wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it. The US warship was actually operating in international waters. Overall and for most of the time, but operational awareness had degraded to the point where it had wandered in and out of Iranian national waters, as shown on its navigational plot computer.  According to the ACI story, it was inside Iranian waters at the time of the shootdown. Regardless of its position vis a vis international boundaries, the point is clear - mistakes occur when civilian aircraft fly over contested areas, and it is hypocritical of the US to make a song and dance about MH-70 after the Vincennes shootdown. Far better to just stick with the single MH-70 incident.  That is murky enough, and I find the unwillingness of participants in this crazy Slavic war reprehensible in not permitting a full and open investigation. Point is - Putin is what he is - but he is a head of state, and puerile media bites hinting at confrontation without clear evidence are just that - puerile media bites. At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done?

Denied and pointed the blame at the country they're trying to invade - Ukraine.

Aussie wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:25pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:45pm: Jacqueline is a very complex woman. I think she needs about 100 sessions on the couch with a good Freudian psychoanalyst You wont get her on a couch unless you have a big donger! Sort of rules most of us out! ;D ;D ;D I wonder if she's ever had a look in the mirror.  Fair dinkum......you'd have to be off yer face to even consider it.

When you had members of the political "blue zone"
- a few years back - claiming Pauline Hanson was "doable" ...

I guess ANYTHING'S "doable"* !


*  to be "doable", a rightist pollie should be pretty, with some feminine airs - and petite
... not unlike Wyatt Roy

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:23am: The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat. Putin is what he has always been ~ a KGB agent with friends in the Russian Mafia.

Vladimar Putin has an enormous support from Russians.
His historical support is worlds best, he has done VERY well for Russia.

People here underestimate him badly.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 8:44am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 5:09pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:23am: The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat. Putin is what he has always been ~ a KGB agent with friends in the Russian Mafia. Vladimar Putin has an enormous support from Russians. His historical support is worlds best, he has done VERY well for Russia. People here underestimate him badly.

Because he murders his opposition.

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:23am: The Australian cringe still alive and well! Putin is a wannabe latter-day Czar... not a democrat. Putin is what he has always been ~ a KGB agent with friends in the Russian Mafia.

all evidence shows he actually runs the  russian mafia.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done?

Thing is the inquiry didn't really point the finger - but I noted that Captain Will Rogers retired quietly soon after... the skill in controlling a variety of inputs coming at you under stress and making valid decisions is the sign of a good commander....

It is sad that Captain Rogers was placed in a situation through several simple problems, such as the lock-on of IFF to an F-14 on the ground and the system not automatically following the 'target' thereafter so as to ascertain that it was in fact an Airbus - and this caused him to have doubt at the crucial time, and thus take counsel of his fears over his ship being attacked.  Had he held off and his ship been hit, he would have been crucified.

Fighter air cover available would have helped as well... visual ID....

The military is pretty unforgiving of errors.....while often trying to run war on the cheap.....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 1:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 7:00am: At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done? Thing is the inquiry didn't really point the finger - but I noted that Captain Will Rogers retired quietly soon after... the skill in controlling a variety of inputs coming at you under stress and making valid decisions is the sign of a good commander.... It is sad that Captain Rogers was placed in a situation through several simple problems, such as the lock-on of IFF to an F-14 on the ground and the system not automatically following the 'target' thereafter so as to ascertain that it was in fact an Airbus - and this caused him to have doubt at the crucial time, and thus take counsel of his fears over his ship being attacked.  Had he held off and his ship been hit, he would have been crucified. Fighter air cover available would have helped as well... visual ID.... The military is pretty unforgiving of errors.....while often trying to run war on the cheap.....

The Yanks shot down a civilian aircraft. The Russians have not, and not waste time with an inquiry into something they did not do.

LNP next trick is to blame it on Russian Muslims!

DaS Energy wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 1:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 7:00am: At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done? Thing is the inquiry didn't really point the finger - but I noted that Captain Will Rogers retired quietly soon after... the skill in controlling a variety of inputs coming at you under stress and making valid decisions is the sign of a good commander.... It is sad that Captain Rogers was placed in a situation through several simple problems, such as the lock-on of IFF to an F-14 on the ground and the system not automatically following the 'target' thereafter so as to ascertain that it was in fact an Airbus - and this caused him to have doubt at the crucial time, and thus take counsel of his fears over his ship being attacked.  Had he held off and his ship been hit, he would have been crucified. Fighter air cover available would have helped as well... visual ID.... The military is pretty unforgiving of errors.....while often trying to run war on the cheap..... The Yanks shot down a civilian aircraft. The Russians have not, and not waste time with an inquiry into something they did not do. LNP next trick is to blame it on Russian Muslims!

Well then who did it?

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 1:15pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 1:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 7:00am: At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done? Thing is the inquiry didn't really point the finger - but I noted that Captain Will Rogers retired quietly soon after... the skill in controlling a variety of inputs coming at you under stress and making valid decisions is the sign of a good commander.... It is sad that Captain Rogers was placed in a situation through several simple problems, such as the lock-on of IFF to an F-14 on the ground and the system not automatically following the 'target' thereafter so as to ascertain that it was in fact an Airbus - and this caused him to have doubt at the crucial time, and thus take counsel of his fears over his ship being attacked.  Had he held off and his ship been hit, he would have been crucified. Fighter air cover available would have helped as well... visual ID.... The military is pretty unforgiving of errors.....while often trying to run war on the cheap..... The Yanks shot down a civilian aircraft. The Russians have not, and not waste time with an inquiry into something they did not do. LNP next trick is to blame it on Russian Muslims! Well then who did it?

Ask Anthony John Abbott, he keep bragging he know all about it!

DaS Energy wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 7:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 6:30pm: DaS Energy wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 1:15pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 1:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 7:00am: At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done? Thing is the inquiry didn't really point the finger - but I noted that Captain Will Rogers retired quietly soon after... the skill in controlling a variety of inputs coming at you under stress and making valid decisions is the sign of a good commander.... It is sad that Captain Rogers was placed in a situation through several simple problems, such as the lock-on of IFF to an F-14 on the ground and the system not automatically following the 'target' thereafter so as to ascertain that it was in fact an Airbus - and this caused him to have doubt at the crucial time, and thus take counsel of his fears over his ship being attacked.  Had he held off and his ship been hit, he would have been crucified. Fighter air cover available would have helped as well... visual ID.... The military is pretty unforgiving of errors.....while often trying to run war on the cheap..... The Yanks shot down a civilian aircraft. The Russians have not, and not waste time with an inquiry into something they did not do. LNP next trick is to blame it on Russian Muslims! Well then who did it? Ask Anthony John Abbott, he keep bragging he know all about it!

Abbott thinks it's Putin's fault.

LNP next trick is to blame it on Russian Muslims![/quote]


Well then who did it?
[/quote]


Ask Anthony John Abbott, he keep bragging he know all about it![/quote]


Abbott thinks it's Putin's fault.
[/quote]

Somebody has cut citizen abbotts phone line to his mother Britain!

Example of Abbott sheer crass stupidity, namely the statement that "Russia needs to fully cooperate in the investigation into the MH17 atrocity".

The answer to that bullshit is that the atrocity happened on Ukrainian soil and it is not yet clear whether the aircraft was downed by a missile possibly fired from a position behind rebel lines, possibly not, possibly fired by rebels, possibly fired by Ukrainian Government or paramilitary forces or else downed by a military aircraft flown by the Ukrainian Air Force. In fact, why has it taken the UK so long to come clean about what happened? Does it take that long to doctor the black box.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 6:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 12:10am: Vic wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it. The US warship was actually operating in international waters. Overall and for most of the time, but operational awareness had degraded to the point where it had wandered in and out of Iranian national waters, as shown on its navigational plot computer.  According to the ACI story, it was inside Iranian waters at the time of the shootdown. Regardless of its position vis a vis international boundaries, the point is clear - mistakes occur when civilian aircraft fly over contested areas, and it is hypocritical of the US to make a song and dance about MH-70 after the Vincennes shootdown. Far better to just stick with the single MH-70 incident.  That is murky enough, and I find the unwillingness of participants in this crazy Slavic war reprehensible in not permitting a full and open investigation. Point is - Putin is what he is - but he is a head of state, and puerile media bites hinting at confrontation without clear evidence are just that - puerile media bites. At least the Yanks had an inquiry. What have the Russians done?

Waited for the evidence within the planes black box, recovered by the Dutch, to be made public!

Quote:

Waited for the evidence within the planes black box, recovered by the Dutch, to be made public!

Well the Russians claim it was anyone except them.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 8:24pm:

Quote: Waited for the evidence within the planes black box, recovered by the Dutch, to be made public! Well the Russians claim it was anyone except them.

So do Australians.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

Vic wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 3:21pm: Indeed: "According to the U.S. government, the Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. ... similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; " "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This event ranks seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, 10th if including the 9/11 attacks, which include ground casualties; the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf. The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the "nice people' have never apologised for it. The US warship was actually operating in international waters.

Wrong.
It had moved into Iranian waters.

Quote:

The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655


If you were watching Air Crash Investigations last week they covered this incident. The official report covered up that the Vincennes had gone into Iranian waters and that it had original orders to return to base. It appears that they had been looking for trouble.

The reaction to Iran Air flight 655 is certainly different to Malaysia Air flight 17.

Iran Air Flight 655 is an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes.

The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes.