Australian Politics Forum

Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1415753144 Message started by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 10:45am

Title: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 10:45am

www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ret-deal-off-the-only-certainty-is-uncertainty-for-the-clean-energy-industry-20141112-11krnl.html

RET deal off: The only certainty is uncertainty for the clean energy industry

Liberal and Labor's Coal Donations to their parties are more important than the Renewable Energy Sector.

Shame Olds, Shame.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 10:48am

getting desperate Greeny!

Labor will not discuss reducing the RET.

Probably the Greens will, in exchange for some meaningless compromise by the Libs.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:10am

You are going crazy!

You know it will be the Greens supporting a reduction in the RET.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:15am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:10am:

You are going crazy!

You know it will be the Greens supporting a reduction in the RET.

Yet its Labor and Liberal negotiating the downfall of the RET. It is Liberal and Labor that are the pawns of the coal lobby via party donations.

Try again, and this time base it on fact.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:15am

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Will The Greens require a further $30 Million voter cash unaccounted for to agree with them?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:21am

Labor will not countenance the RET being reduced. end of story.

Bet the Greens will come riding to Tony’s defence again tho.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:25am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:21am:

Labor will not countenance the RET being reduced. end of story.

Bet the Greens will come riding to Tony’s defence again tho.

Quote:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

Labor and Liberal want to attack RET so to appease their coal lobby puppet master.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

Shame both old parties. The RET should be lifted, not attacked for personal party advantage via coal donations.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:34am

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:21am:

Labor will not countenance the RET being reduced. end of story.

Bet the Greens will come riding to Tony’s defence again tho.

Quote:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

Labor and Liberal want to attack RET so to appease their coal lobby puppet master.

The Greens want another $30 Million of unaccounted for voter cash to give their support for greater Carbon Emissions.

It was no no Gillard untill the cash changed hands never to be heard of again!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:35am

30% is not a slight reduction—you are spouting lies there.

The Greens will help Tony, never fear.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:39am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:35am:

30% is not a slight reduction—you are spouting lies there.

The Greens will help Tony, never fear.

30% is to Lib Lab Puppet Masters.
As for spouting lies, you claimed Labor would not attack the RET, and now you have backtracked on your previous position. You are in no position to call others liars considering you don't understand Labor hates Renewable Energy as much as labor hates real action on AGW.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

If it is secret how do you know about it.....Just another hysterical fear campaign the Greens are known for.....Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop.....Your assumptions about secret negotiations have no founding in reality and show once again how dishonest you are unless you can back up your bullshit!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:48am

As Labor found out with the GST, blanket opposition means you have no say in the final legislation.

I am serious tho in predicting the Greens will do a deal, getting some minor compromise that will never appear in reality.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:58am

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Please quote the section where negotiations are carrying on in secret Greens.....I read the article and could find no such reference???

Quote:

Negotiations over the future of Australia's Renewable Energy Target (RET) have broken down, with Labor telling the Government there is no value in continuing discussions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:02pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Please quote the section where negotiations are carrying on in secret Greens.....I read the article and could find no such reference???

Quote:

Negotiations over the future of Australia's Renewable Energy Target (RET) have broken down, with Labor telling the Government there is no value in continuing discussions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

If it wasn't secret then you can state Labor's reduction target for RET.

Was it a reduction of 30% as Labor members are alleged to have leaked?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Dnarever on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:04pm

The ret is set to 20%

The Liberals want to reduce it by 40% the Greens would not support that either.

The greens do not want Labor to do a deal to water it down either:

http://greens.org.au/news/vic/labor-moving-weaken-ret

Quote:

Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber says worrying signs are emerging that the Labor and Liberals parties will vote together to water down the Renewable Energy Target.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:12pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Please quote the section where negotiations are carrying on in secret Greens.....I read the article and could find no such reference???

Quote:

Negotiations over the future of Australia's Renewable Energy Target (RET) have broken down, with Labor telling the Government there is no value in continuing discussions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

If it wasn't secret then you can state Labor's reduction target for RET.

Was it a reduction of 30% as Labor members are alleged to have leaked?

Labor have abandoned negotiations with no reduction in the RET....If you have proof of secret negotiations it is up to you to provide proof to back it up....So far all you have provided is baseless allegations and opinion!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:15pm

Dnarever wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber says worrying signs are emerging that the Labor and Liberals parties will vote together to water down the Renewable Energy Target.

Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber has concerns that if labour backs the LNP, the Greens will be out of the race for a further unaccounted for $30 Million cash of voter money to buy the Greens vote!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:25pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Please quote the section where negotiations are carrying on in secret Greens.....I read the article and could find no such reference???

Quote:

Negotiations over the future of Australia's Renewable Energy Target (RET) have broken down, with Labor telling the Government there is no value in continuing discussions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

If it wasn't secret then you can state Labor's reduction target for RET.

Was it a reduction of 30% as Labor members are alleged to have leaked?

You stated that Labor didn't support a reduction in RET. Have you backtracked from that position?

As for negotiation, what was labor's position at the negotiations. As for negotiations breaking down, this is just theatrics since it is in the interest of both olds to attack RET since the size of coal donations hinge on it.

Both old parties hate Renewable Energy and both old parties oppose Australia having a real agenda on action on reducing human caused climate change.

And on a side note to any labor voters at the last election reading this, did you support labor so labor could attack renewable energy?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm

Quote:

Not at all.....Can you show me where Labor have claimed they will reduce the RET since this is your claim.....You also claimed the ALP where in secret negotiations with the Coalition but have refused to back it up.....Is this how the Greens conduct debates.....No wonder nobody trusts them!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by General True Blue on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:34pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

if an "industry" can't run on its own steam without government subsidies it SHOULD be closed down...

the question you need to ask is what HAVE YOU done about it?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:39pm

General True Blue wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:34pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

if an "industry" can't run on its own steam without government subsidies it SHOULD be closed down...

the question you need to ask is what HAVE YOU done about it?

So you do not support the $3 billion in fuel tax breaks for truckies, constructors, manufacturers and farmers.....Or are you a hypocrite???

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Post 7. Bill Shorten stated Labor is out to shrink the RET. So have you backtracked?

And it was/will be in secret otherwise everyone would know the percentage Labor is out to attack the renewable energy target by.
This alleged 30% from Labor sources, can you refute this with fact? Would prefer facts over Labor sources.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Quote:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:18pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Please quote the section where negotiations are carrying on in secret Greens.....I read the article and could find no such reference???

Quote:

Negotiations over the future of Australia's Renewable Energy Target (RET) have broken down, with Labor telling the Government there is no value in continuing discussions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

If it wasn't secret then you can state Labor's reduction target for RET.

Was it a reduction of 30% as Labor members are alleged to have leaked?

That's a long winded way to say the Greens are a young Party and love Coal being burnt even more so than LNP and Labour!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:20pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:18pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Both parties have stated they are negotiating a reduction in the RET. And that is being done in secret.

(the link for Labor's position of reducing RET is in reply 7.)

Please quote the section where negotiations are carrying on in secret Greens.....I read the article and could find no such reference???

Quote:

Negotiations over the future of Australia's Renewable Energy Target (RET) have broken down, with Labor telling the Government there is no value in continuing discussions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

If it wasn't secret then you can state Labor's reduction target for RET.

Was it a reduction of 30% as Labor members are alleged to have leaked?

That's a long winded way to say the Greens are a young Party and love Coal being burnt even more so than LNP and Labour!

I suggest comprehension lessons.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:22pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

My bet is they are holding out for $30 Million voter cash and then further unaccounted for, they did it with Gillard, and the money must now be drying up!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:30pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:22pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

My bet is they are holding out for $30 Million voter cash and then further unaccounted for, they did it with Gillard, and the money must now be drying up!

The Greens remain committed to the 41,000 target and desire to move towards 100 per cent renewables as soon as possible. Leader Christine Milne says there is nothing to negotiate, all but ruling out a Greens-coalition compromise.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/11/12/ret-future-uncertain-as-talks-fall-over.html

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Bam on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

You really expect others to believe that just on your say-so?

Quote:

Shame both old parties. The RET should be lifted, not attacked for personal party advantage via coal donations.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:40pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:30pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:22pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

My bet is they are holding out for $30 Million voter cash and then further unaccounted for, they did it with Gillard, and the money must now be drying up!

All but (definition) 1. very nearly.

Leader Christine Milne still refuses to show where the $30 Million cash money, from the voter, she accepted from Gillard is accounted for!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Armchair_Politician on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:43pm

Poll

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

If Labor were in office, they probably wouldn't.

Trouble is, it is the COALition that are in government and who are making up rubbish about "real" 20% targets that are only designed to create uncertainty and destroy jobs.

Labor has been negotiating a reduction. The coalition have fat chance yet Labor are working with them to find a number to reduce renewable energy by.

Quote:

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

You really expect others to believe that just on your say-so?

I stated on most of my posts 'alleged'. Making it clear it wasn't factual yet since Labor is working with the Libs behind close doors to find a number to reduce RET by.

[quote]Shame both old parties. The RET should be lifted, not attacked for personal party advantage via coal donations.

Save your shaming for the ones that deserve it. The Coalition. They are the only parties that are actively seeking to savage the RET. If Labor was also wanting to savage the RET, a deal would have been done months ago!

It is in Labor's political interest to pretend they are a friend of renewable energy and stretch negotiations since this undermines investment and jobs and hurts the coalition more politcally since the majority of voters support renewable energy.
[/quote]

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:51pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

Poll

Thanks for your input. Your poll adds so much to the debate.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:58pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

[/quote]

But not as much so as the Greens!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Bam on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:03pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

[/quote]
Why are you so hung up about Labor when it's the Coalition that want to do the real damage by seeking to impose a 40% cut without negotiation or compromise?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:09pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

But not as much so as the Greens![/quote]

No pretence. Greens desire a 100% Renewable target considering Renewables are already cheaper than coal and gas in Australia. And the longer we avoid a 100% target the more disadvantage the Australian economy is exposed to via uncompetitive electricity prices.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:12pm

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:03pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

Why are you so hung up about Labor when it's the Coalition that want to do the real damage by seeking to impose a 40% cut without negotiation or compromise?
[/quote]

Labor are not the friends of voters who require action on AGW via renewable energy. Labor are addicted to coal and coal donations to Labor.

For someone so switched on Bam, I am surprised by you ignorance.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:24pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

But not as much so as the Greens!

No pretence. Greens desire a 100% Renewable target considering Renewables are already cheaper than coal and gas in Australia. And the longer we avoid a 100% target the more disadvantage the Australian economy is exposed to via uncompetitive electricity prices.[/quote]

No pretence. Greens desire a 100% coal burning Australian future, and the Greens desire 100% that coal never do on them the election advertising they did to Howard!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:24pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

But not as much so as the Greens!

No pretence. Greens desire a 100% coal burning Australian future, and the Greens desire 100% that coal never do on them the election advertising they did to Howard![/quote]

Two studies released today point the way for Prime Minister Gillard to lift Australia's emissions reduction targets to the ambitious levels that the science demands.

With the Prime Minister due to release her government's climate plans shortly, the Pew Centre has released a study of outback carbon showing the potential to sequester a billion tonnes of carbon with better management of our outback ecosystems.

Melbourne University's Energy Institute and Beyond Zero Emissions are also today officially publishing a report launched by Australian Greens Deputy Leader, Senator Christine Milne, in Canberra last month showing that it is technically achievable for Australia to move to 100% renewable energy within a decade.

"These timely reports show the Prime Minister just how much can be achieved if we lift our sights and head for what the climate science demands - zero net emissions as fast as possible," Senator Milne said.

"I was delighted to launch the Zero Carbon Australia stationary energy report here in Canberra last month as it really lifts the bar for everyone else.

"You might not agree with everything in the report, but nobody should be able to get away anymore with simply asserting that it can't be done without being challenged to justify it.

"If Prime Minister Gillard, as expected, announced more ad hoc measures for individual renewable energy projects, she should be challenged as to why she is not planning for the full transformation of Australia's energy networks.

"Why will she not embrace a gross national feed-in tariff that can drive that transformation? Why is she sticking with policies that will keep renewable energy on the sidelines?

"The Pew Centre's Outback Carbon report similarly points the way to huge untapped emissions reductions if the government is willing to embrace them.

"We need substantial investment in techniques to measure terrestrial carbon and in helping the stewards of our land - indigenous people, farmers, land care groups - to make the changes needed to tap the huge potential that is there.

"The Australia government also needs to play a positive role in global negotiations to work out the best way to account for emissions and savings from this sector instead of playing spoiler as it has done for so many years.

"This is an exciting time. We could be making huge strides to improve our lives and protect the climate if only we could lift our sights to what we can and must achieve."

http://christine-milne.greensmps.org.au/content/media-releases/outback-carbon-and-100-renewables-studies-show-deep-emissions-cuts-achievable

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:36pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

[quote author=Waterloo1 link=1415753144/41#41 date=1415766280][quote author=Tony_Abbott link=1415753144/39#39 date=1415765389][quote author=Waterloo1 link=1415753144/37#37 date=1415764713][quote author=Tony_Abbott link=1415753144/35#35 date=1415764213][quote author=bam68 link=1415753144/32#32 date=1415763361][quote author=Tony_Abbott link=1415753144/9#9 date=1415755967][quote author=GeorgeH link=1415753144/8#8 date=1415755790].

"The Australia government also needs to play a positive role in global negotiations to work out the best way to account for emissions and savings from this sector instead of playing spoiler as it has done for so many years.

"This is an exciting time. We could be making huge strides to improve our lives and protect the climate if only we could lift our sights to what we can and must achieve."

http://christine-milne.greensmps.org.au/content/media-releases/outback-carbon-and-100-renewables-studies-show-deep-emissions-cuts-achievable

The Greens hold Australian Carbon Capture technology that halves power prices and reduces Carbon emissions to zero.

The Greens accepted from Gillard $30 Million cash of voters money, to conceal they held the technology and not to complain about Labour also concealing it!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:45pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

Is there any self interest in your propaganda?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:51pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

Is there any self interest in your propaganda?

No propaganda or self interest DaS Energy!

The self interest, deceit and propaganda from the Greens is pure clamber for another $30 Million cash from the voters never to be accounted for!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:56pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:51pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

Is there any self interest in your propaganda?

No propaganda or self interest DaS Energy!

The self interest, deceit and propaganda from the Greens is pure clamber for another $30 Million cash from the voters never to be accounted for!

You know that's not true and you know the only reason you are trying to through dirt is because you have been told by a wide range, that das energy does not work.

That's the bottom line and the sooner you come to terms the sooner you can get on with your life.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 3:07pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:51pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

Is there any self interest in your propaganda?

No propaganda or self interest DaS Energy!

The self interest, deceit and propaganda from the Greens is pure clamber for another $30 Million cash from the voters never to be accounted for!

Dream on!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?[/quote]

I stand by my comments....Labor have walked away from negotiations meaning they will not support any reduction in the RET full stop.....Of course this could change if there where secret negotiations going on as you claim but you have provided nothing to support this so I presume you where mistaken.....Labor tried to salvage the RET the Greens have once again shown it is all or nothing which makes negotiating with them a complete waste of time.....Either way the only way Abbott will change the RET is to deal with PUP.....Unless of course you can provide proof of the secret negotiations.....Still waiting???

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:41pm

Yeah. Even if Labor allowed some decrease in the RET would that not be better than the Libs talking PUP and some of the other braindead Indie Senators to cancel the entire RET?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Team Froggie on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm

G_W.

As it's been a tad over 12 months now, G_W, can you tell me just what the Greens have obtained from this present Govt. that is superior to that which was offered by Labor?

:-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm

Lobo wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

G_W.

As it's been a tad over 12 months now, G_W, can you tell me just what the Greens have obtained from this present Govt. that is superior to that which was offered by Labor?

:-?

Greens have garnished the seeds of conservative defeat via the exposure of both old parties working against the interests of the majority of voters.

As in this thread, both Labor and Coalition have been scheming to water down RET.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

I stand by my comments....Labor have walked away from negotiations meaning they will not support any reduction in the RET full stop.....Of course this could change if there where secret negotiations going on as you claim but you have provided nothing to support this so I presume you where mistaken.....Labor tried to salvage the RET the Greens have once again shown it is all or nothing which makes negotiating with them a complete waste of time.....Either way the only way Abbott will change the RET is to deal with PUP.....Unless of course you can provide proof of the secret negotiations.....Still waiting???

:-? :-? :-?[/quote]

Quote:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Team Froggie on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:00pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

G_W.

As it's been a tad over 12 months now, G_W, can you tell me just what the Greens have obtained from this present Govt. that is superior to that which was offered by Labor?

:-?

Froth and bubble.....

Now, once again....
What have the Greens obtained from this present Govt. that is superior to that which was offered by Labor?

:)

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Neferti on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:02pm

Quote:

Greens have garnished the seeds of conservative defeat via the exposure of both old parties working against the interests of the majority of voters.

IF the Greens want to get more votes they should return to their original (Bob Brown) idea about THE ENVIRONMENT and CONSERVATION and keep their noses out of other stuff. ;)

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:07pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

Quote:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

Why was Labor trying to water down RET. Without Labor, the Coalition can't get changes through the Senate. Labor why trying to do a dirty deal against RE interests and you still deny this. Is it that hard to admit you were wrong?

And Yes Greens will not deal with Labor and the Coalition to destroy the current RET, and I don't understand why you expect them to. [/quote]

Note the carefully chosen word destroy, not dilute, tone done, reduce, but destroy.

verb: destroy; end the existence of.
[/quote]

Diluting equates to renewable energy projects being scraped or moved overseas, renewable energy companies going broke, renewable workers losing their jobs.

If this isn't destruction, what is it?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:11pm

Lobo wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

G_W.

As it's been a tad over 12 months now, G_W, can you tell me just what the Greens have obtained from this present Govt. that is superior to that which was offered by Labor?

:-?

Froth and bubble.....

Now, once again....
What have the Greens obtained from this present Govt. that is superior to that which was offered by Labor?

:)

I have answered. If you don't like my answer then that is your issue, not mine.

Greens are not here to appease labor on the wayward opinion labor could be fractionally less of a disaster than the coalition.

Both old parties are rotten to their core.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:12pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Team Froggie on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:12pm

Quote:

I have answered.

No you haven't.....

:D

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:14pm

Neferti wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:02pm:

Quote:

Greens have garnished the seeds of conservative defeat via the exposure of both old parties working against the interests of the majority of voters.

IF the Greens want to get more votes they should return to their original (Bob Brown) idea about THE ENVIRONMENT and CONSERVATION and keep their noses out of other stuff. ;)

Greens haven't lost their environmental roots. Single issue parties don't win majority government, and that is the long game of the Greens.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:15pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:12pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

Note the carefully chosen word destroy, not dilute, tone done, reduce, but destroy.

verb: destroy; end the existence of.
[/quote]

Diluting equates to renewable energy projects being scraped or moved overseas, renewable energy companies going broke, renewable workers losing their jobs.

If this isn't destruction, what is it? [/quote]

verb: destroy; end the existence of. See Queens English Oxford.
[/quote]

And that is the ultimate aim of Lib Lab wanting to dilute RET. I stand by my choice of words.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:17pm

Lobo wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:12pm:

Quote:

I have answered.

No you haven't.....

:D

I have. Greens have garnished the abbott mob's downfall at the next election and has placed itself in a position to gain more political clout post the 2016 election.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:18pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:15pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:12pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

Note the carefully chosen word destroy, not dilute, tone done, reduce, but destroy.

verb: destroy; end the existence of.

Diluting equates to renewable energy projects being scraped or moved overseas, renewable energy companies going broke, renewable workers losing their jobs.

If this isn't destruction, what is it? [/quote]

verb: destroy; end the existence of. See Queens English Oxford.
[/quote]

And that is the ultimate aim of Lib Lab wanting to dilute RET. I stand by my choice of words. [/quote]

So why are the Greens negotiating the cash price they will accept for that destruction to occur!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:20pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:18pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:15pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:12pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Quote:

Where did Bill Shorten state Labor is out to shrink the RET???

Provide the link to these alleged Labor sources who made this claim so I can see it in context....Over to you!!!

:-? :-? :-?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/negotiations-between-labor-and-coalition-over-ret-break-down/5884162

You said

[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Post 13.

Have you backtracked from your original position on this thread?

[quote]Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor offered a slight reduction in renewable energy output, but not as much as the Government wanted.

Note the carefully chosen word destroy, not dilute, tone done, reduce, but destroy.

verb: destroy; end the existence of.

Diluting equates to renewable energy projects being scraped or moved overseas, renewable energy companies going broke, renewable workers losing their jobs.

If this isn't destruction, what is it?

verb: destroy; end the existence of. See Queens English Oxford.
[/quote]

And that is the ultimate aim of Lib Lab wanting to dilute RET. I stand by my choice of words. [/quote]

So why are the Greens negotiating the cash price they will accept for that destruction to occur!
[/quote]

Greens don't negotiate. It's our way or the highway. Just ask Phil.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:28pm

Why was Labor trying to water down RET. Without Labor, the Coalition can't get changes through the Senate. Labor why trying to do a dirty deal against RE interests and you still deny this. Is it that hard to admit you were wrong?

And Yes Greens will not deal with Labor and the Coalition to destroy the current RET, and I don't understand why you expect them to. [/quote]

Note the carefully chosen word destroy, not dilute, tone done, reduce, but destroy.

verb: destroy; end the existence of.
[/quote]

Diluting equates to renewable energy projects being scraped or moved overseas, renewable energy companies going broke, renewable workers losing their jobs.

If this isn't destruction, what is it? [/quote]

verb: destroy; end the existence of. See Queens English Oxford.
[/quote]

And that is the ultimate aim of Lib Lab wanting to dilute RET. I stand by my choice of words. [/quote]

So why are the Greens negotiating the cash price they will accept for that destruction to occur!
[/quote]

Greens don't negotiate. It's our way or the highway. Just ask Phil.[/quote]

BULLSHIT Greens negotiated $30 Million cash, voters money and unaccountable, out of Gillard, just look in the records!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:28pm

Lies and delusions.

Libs don’t need Labor—there is the crossbench.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:37pm

As I said yesterday, GW is going mad. Or is beginning to see through the lies of the Greens. Next week he will likely be virulently anti–Green.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Team Froggie on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:37pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Don't hold your breath.....

;)

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:48pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

End of year financial statement Treasury! Also see Labour budget 2010-2011, prior posted. Both will come up under those words if cut and pasted to Google, too hard for some!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:49pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Labor late on Tuesday walked away from weeks of private talks with the government on the new RET.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/ret-uncertainty-condemned-by-solar-property/2451179/

“I won't go into the content of the negotiations but the Coalition was prepared to compromise. We are very disappointed that the Labor Party has walked away from these negotiations and we are keen to resume them if they reconsider their position.”

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/ret-talks-negotiations-break-down-between-government-and-labor

Do you still deny Labor was negotiating to dilute RET after Bill Shorten said so?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:09pm

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/ret-uncertainty-condemned-by-solar-pro...

The words In 2008, Labor and Coalition agreed to set the 20 per cent renewable energy target at 41,000 gigawatt hours, or 20 per cent of demand in 2020.

BULLSHIT

It was and still is Carbon tonnage!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:20pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

This is the comment that provoked my response....Are you now walking away from the claim secret deals are going on to reduce the RET.....You are a very deceitful person Greens!!!

[smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:20pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Reply 71

Behind close doors ... both negotiating to water down RET is secret.

What of that don't you understand.

Also have you back peddled from your original position?

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Reply 13

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:29pm

Shorten himself admitted to being in negotiation, the problem was about the price, Labour didn't want to pay the price wanted by the LNP, but instead put a different offer on the table and the LNP said no!

The LNP now is negotiating with the Greens, hoping it not be as high as the previous agreement of $30 Million cash of voter money and unaccountable for by the Greens!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:29pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Here is the post Phil. Just in case you missed it !

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Armchair_Politician on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:30pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

Poll

Thanks for your input. Your poll adds so much to the debate.

You're welcome - certainly a far more constructive addition than anything you provide.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:32pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

Poll

Thanks for your input. Your poll adds so much to the debate.

You're welcome - certainly a far more constructive addition than anything you provide.

Being an abbott sycophant, I understand your position.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 10:20am

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:20pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Reply 71

Behind close doors ... both negotiating to water down RET is secret.

What of that don't you understand.

Also have you back peddled from your original position?

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Reply 13

You claimed ARE working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret....You used the present tense not the past.....Your post suggests the ALP and Coalition are still doing a deal in secret.....Your claim not mine.....You are a deceitful person Greens!!!

[smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 10:58am

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 11:10am

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:20pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Reply 71

Behind close doors ... both negotiating to water down RET is secret.

What of that don't you understand.

Also have you back peddled from your original position?

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Reply 13

Speaking of deceitful, have you backflipped from your original position

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

or not?

Your jumping up and down comes across as an attempt to not answer this very basic question.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 12:58pm

____ wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 11:10am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 6:20pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Labor and Liberal are working on a deal to stitch up the renewable sector in secret.

Both are the pawns of the Coal Lobby via donations to both parties. Which will jump higher?

Reply 71

Behind close doors ... both negotiating to water down RET is secret.

What of that don't you understand.

Also have you back peddled from your original position?

Quote:

Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

Reply 13

Speaking of deceitful, have you backflipped from your original position
[quote]Labor will not support a reduction in the RET full stop

or not?

Your jumping up and down comes across as an attempt to not answer this very basic question.

[/quote]

Labor have walked away from negotiations and will not support a reduction in the RET so my statement stands.....You however claimed secret negotiations were still continuing in an attempt to misrepresent the truth.....Do you still claim Labor are negotiating in secret to reduce the RET or will you admit this is a lie???

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:38pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

As you can see here, I supplied proof there were secret negotiations between the coalition and the opposition to water down RET.

Both have negotiated in secret in the past, they will again negotiate in the future, and it is possible they are currently negotiating.

Both are on the same page and want to water down RET, since Bill Shorten is on the record as saying this.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by philperth2010 on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:49pm

____ wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:38pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

Still waiting for proof of these secret negotiations.....You made the claim now back it up instead of deflecting!!!

:-? :-? :-?

The fact the ALP where prepared to negotiate a deal on the RET to ensure it remained viable is not in dispute.....You claimed secret negotiations ARE still going on which you have failed to support and still claim will happen in the future despite no evidence to support this claim.....How do you know what will happen in the future???

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:57pm

The coalition needs labor and labor needs the coalition, in promoting and prolonging their coal addiction and their addiction to coal lobby donations to their parties into the future.

It would be a brave person to expect the two evil empires not to work together and in secret so to fool some voters.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:01pm

____ wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:57pm:

The Greens, Labour and LNP are the most close knit of all Australians in pursuit of a Coal burning future!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Greens_Win on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:03pm

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:01pm:

____ wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:57pm:

The Greens, Labour and LNP are the most close knit of all Australians in pursuit of a Coal burning future!

See what tune you are humming in 2016.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:07pm

____ wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:03pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:01pm:

____ wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 1:57pm:

See what tune you are humming in 2016.

Why, the bands already playing The Greens, Labour and LNP are the most close knit of all Australians in pursuit of a Coal burning future!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 2:58pm

Meantime, out of GW’s deluded brain it is Lambie WANTING to vote to kill the RET. Palmer is getting furious with her.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/11/13/policy-politics/will-lambie-defy-clive-kill-ret?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=997461&utm_campaign=cs_daily&modapt=

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by Bam on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 6:05pm

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:12pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:03pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

A slight reduce according to leaks from the Labor Party is 30% cuts while the Libs want 40%.

Why are you so hung up about Labor when it's the Coalition that want to do the real damage by seeking to impose a 40% cut without negotiation or compromise?

Labor are not the friends of voters who require action on AGW via renewable energy. Labor are addicted to coal and coal donations to Labor.

For someone so switched on Bam, I am surprised by you ignorance.[/quote]
There's only one person who seems ignorant in this discussion, and it's not me.

I refer you to Mark Butler's letter to Ian Macfarlane dated 11/11/14, which has been released to the general public. I quote an excerpt from that letter:

Quote:

Labor's position has always been guided by the need for Australia to have a sustainable renewable energy sector. Labor supports growing our renewable energy sector because it is important to Australia's energy future. A strong renewable energy sector will keep downward pressure on power prices, support new clean energy jobs through continued investment and contribute to reducing Australia's carbon emissions.

Quote:

Labor will not stand by and watch billions of dollars of investment in the Australian renewable energy sector -- along with thousands of jobs -- go overseas because of deep cuts to the target.

Labor will continue to advocate for a strong and growing renewable energy sector for Australia -- we will not be party to a plan that kills jobs and investment, increases pollution and forces power prices to rise.

Your assertion that "Labor are addicted to coal and coal donations to Labor" appears to be baseless. If you have solid evidence to the contrary, please show us.

You also make clear assertions that "It is in Labor's political interest to pretend they are a friend of renewable energy". This is a strong remark to make. If you're going to make this kind of remark, it would be far better if it was backed up with firm evidence rather than the unfounded speculation it appears to be.

Far from Labor and Liberals colluding to smash the RET, it is abundantly clear that the Coalition are attempting to bully Labor into a reduction in the RET and Labor won't support any action that will undermine investment or jobs in the renewable energy sector.

You have been quite unreasonable in your unfounded criticism of Labor, when it was the Liberals who explicitly promised no change to the RET before the last election. Where is your criticism of the Liberals for breaking a clear election promise?

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by DaS Energy on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 6:11pm

Bam wrote on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

____ wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:12pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 12^th, 2014 at 2:03pm:

[quote author=Tony_Abbott link=1415753144/35#35 date=1415764213][quote author=bam68 link=1415753144/32#32 date=1415763361][quote author=Tony_Abbott link=1415753144/9#9 date=1415755967][quote author=GeorgeH link=1415753144/8#8 date=1415755790]A slight reduction. You know, give and take in negotiation. Greens should learn the art of negotiation!

You said Labor wouldn't reduce the RET.

If Labor were in office, they probably wouldn't.

You also make clear assertions that "It is in Labor's political interest to pretend they are a friend of renewable energy". This is a strong remark to make. If you're going to make this kind of remark, it would be far better if it was backed up with firm evidence rather than the unfounded speculation it appears to be.
You have been quite unreasonable in your unfounded criticism of Labor, when it was the Liberals who explicitly promised no change to the RET before the last election. Where is your criticism of the Liberals for breaking a clear election promise?

Rudd and Abbott saw what Coal did to Howard. Rudd capitalised on it, and LNP wont let that happen again!
Keep the Coal fires burning the LNP is yearning keep us on the gravy train, we too old to start again!

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 9:42pm

Some of the stakes in the RET negotiations:

Quote:

The high stakes political standoff over the renewable energy target will freeze new investment, cause the collapse of existing projects and within a few years trigger a “penalty” provision that would hike power bills by three times as much as the now-repealed carbon tax.

The renewable energy industry, Labor and the Greens are adamant these dire consequences are entirely the fault of the Abbott government, accusing the Coalition of breaking its election promise to keep the RET, abandoning bipartisanship over the policy and proposing drastic cuts to the target that would be even worse for the industry.

The Labor leader, Bill Shorten, said there was no point continuing with the talks “because Tony Abbott is a climate change sceptic and election promise breaker” and “there is no point in leading people up the garden path” or having negotiations with people who didn’t want to negotiate.

Labor has now joined the Greens and the Palmer United party in staring down the government, refusing to make major changes to the target that requires Australia to install 41,000 gigawatt hours of renewable energy by 2020.

The environment minister, Greg Hunt, said the government was “surprised” by Labor’s decision and “our door remains open”. He said the 41,000 gigawatt hour target was “neither sustainable nor achievable.”

The opposition’s high stakes strategy relies on public pressure forcing the government to back down and publicly agree to keep the RET.

If it does not, uncertainty will mean investment stalls anyway, the price of renewable energy certificates will remain around half what existing projects had factored in to their financing and within one or two years there will be no certificates for electricity retailers to buy.

When that happens the RET legislation requires retailers to pay a penalty price of $92 per megawatt hour – an outcome that would cause an increase in the average power bill of about 30%. The carbon tax increased electricity bills by about 9%, and many households received compensation for its impact.

30% increase in power bills. Made it worthwhile trying to negotiate something that avoided those dire consequences. Abbott seems happy to wreck the RET regardless of 30% power price increases.

REALLY is time the Libs dumped him.

Title: Re: Abbott/Shorten Undermine RET Again
Post by St George of the Puissant HLT on Nov 13^th, 2014 at 10:38pm

So much for GW’s hysterical claims if 30% reduction in RET:

Quote:

The government had another setback on the climate front on Wednesday when the opposition broke off negotiations on modifying the Renewable Energy Target (RET).

The Coalition wants to reduce the current target of 41,000 gigawatt hours of renewable energy by 2020 to around 26,000. Opposition leader Bill Shorten said Labor was willing to accept a figure “between the mid and high 30,000s”.

https://theconversation.com/abbotts-blindsided-by-us-china-climate-deal-34151