When will we reassess the need for positive discrimination?

If women do not hold 50%+ positions of company directors and seats in parliaments at what point should women start looking at themselves and not at society for the problem.
(if it is a problem)

Pretty sad seeing women forced to take up careers, studies, ambitions and the lust for power - just to sit beside her 'Whitey' male upon the Throne and keep the Economy in check!

Deep down, they just want to have babies with the influx of fresh genetic material from 'The Boats'. Tony 'One Term' Abbott is afraid his precious daughters may be 'polluted' by such FOBs and is putting a 'Carbon Tax' upon their chastity belts.

I would estimate ... somewhere around 1982-3......

It's not that women are a 'problem' in those arenas - it's just that these arenas are NOT open to affirmative action or quotas here - since we ostensibly live in a democracy where the people decide.

Labor has had a quota in place for ages now - 40/40/20 - and still women can't make their 40% even when foisted on electorate after electorate by stealth, policy and parachuting in.... yet they demand 50% of front bench positions regardless....

Liberal has had its absolute bricks as well so not arguments there about party...

Any candidate should be pre-selected by the branch in the electorate and represent that electorate -- not be some flunkey for some distant and  thus far unaccepted and unvoted on Party policy.  If a party is so certain that the electorates want women or whatever - let them put it to the vote and see.

Let the people decide - we are, after all - not sheep to be lead around by the nose...and told what to do and who we will accept.

Same applies to business - nowhere is there any right of a democratic government to dictate to a business who it will employ and who it will not.

About now you should be starting to see what is meant by 'socio-fascism'...... Communist Russia was 'socio-fascist'... think it through.... it's simple - a minority masquerade as the champions of the people and will trample those people so as to ensure that their championship by their lights goes through - over any and everyone...  you with me yet?

Such things as affirmative action and quotas cannot be law - they are policy pure and simple and have been since 1982...... the problem is that there is no real way for any ordinary person afflicted by these policies to have them set to rights....

Hence the Grappler initiative on determining that all law, legislation and policy needs to be held to the proper standard of Law - or it fails the first hurdle, that of not being active discrimination.

miketrees wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 2:08am:

When will we reassess the need for positive discrimination? If women do not hold 50%+ positions of company directors and seats in parliaments at what point should women start looking at themselves and not at society for the problem. (if it is a problem)

Because women aren't a group, they're a gender.

ColdFact wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

miketrees wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 2:08am: When will we reassess the need for positive discrimination? If women do not hold 50%+ positions of company directors and seats in parliaments at what point should women start looking at themselves and not at society for the problem. (if it is a problem) Because women aren't a group, they're a gender.

Precisely...... there is as much variety amongst women as there is amongst men (thank god)....

Affirmative Action is a divisive crock

the best person regardless of gender or race gets the job

Gnads wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 7:26pm:

Affirmative Action is a divisive crock the best person regardless of gender or race gets the job

Is there some sort of gender bias to women in the ALP which is not mirrored in the LNP?

I'm all for equality and gender ... I want equal access to her 'gender'

;D ;D ;D ;D

Indonesian Ministry:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/image/1437558/1414394248000/large16x9/768/432/indonesia-cabinet.jpg

Abbott's Ministry:

http://images-2.drive.com.au/2013/09/19/4760531/ak-pricelead-620x349.jpg

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

ColdFact wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 6:27pm: miketrees wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 2:08am: When will we reassess the need for positive discrimination? If women do not hold 50%+ positions of company directors and seats in parliaments at what point should women start looking at themselves and not at society for the problem. (if it is a problem) Because women aren't a group, they're a gender. Precisely...... there is as much variety amongst women as there is amongst men (thank god)....

Actually there is less, which is part of the reason why there aren't as many of them in high places.

Quote:

Actually there is less, which is part of the reason why there aren't as many of them in high places.

The 'less' you refer to is variety among women, an allegation there is more variety among men.

Care to back that up, or is it just drivel?

Aussie wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 7:26pm: Affirmative Action is a divisive crock the best person regardless of gender or race gets the job Is there some sort of gender bias to women in the ALP which is not mirrored in the LNP?

40% men - 40% women - 20% open - that's the ALP quota...

Currently women hold 36% of seats held by Labor - immediately after the election a group of women demanded 50% of front bench seats - Tanya Pleb told them to sit down and shut up... they already held 40% of front bench seats.....

Now you may deduce from that what you wish - but the fact remains that Labor has a quota system - and it still does not work, as they wish - leading to the demand that women be slotted into all the safe seats first...

How utterly nonsensical.

Let the people decide..... we're not the pawns for political chicanery and self-interest....

Hey Aussie, re your ministry photos: The best part is that the only competent minister in Abbott's ministry is, in fact, the woman.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 7:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 7:28pm: Gnads wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 7:26pm: Affirmative Action is a divisive crock the best person regardless of gender or race gets the job Is there some sort of gender bias to women in the ALP which is not mirrored in the LNP? 40% men - 40% women - 20% open - that's the ALP quota... Currently women hold 36% of seats held by Labor - immediately after the election a group of women demanded 50% of front bench seats - Tanya Pleb told them to sit down and shut up... they already held 40% of front bench seats..... Now you may deduce from that what you wish - but the fact remains that Labor has a quota system - and it still does not work, as they wish - leading to the demand that women be slotted into all the safe seats first... How utterly nonsensical. Let the people decide..... we're not the pawns for political chicanery and self-interest....

I'm not doubting you about that Mr Grappler, but I'd appreciate a link so I can see the details?

miketrees wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 2:08am:

When will we reassess the need for positive discrimination? If women do not hold 50%+ positions of company directors and seats in parliaments at what point should women start looking at themselves and not at society for the problem. (if it is a problem)

women are the first ones to bring down other women....it isnt society although I do think its time they did something about equal pay..

but when it comes to support and help if I was a women heading for the top I wouldnt look to other women for that thats for sure..

bitching and jealousy and knives in the back.. no thanks.

I give credit where its due.. Julie Bishop is doing a cracking job..she got where she is through hard work and being tough...good on her...

lab has 40% females.. how many can we name???????????..... as being of huge service to their country?...

look at the other females Milne/ Hansen Young.Lambie...bitchy spiteful and screwed up faces that say "I am your enemy".....


yeah right working for all Australians... ;D ;D

Aussie wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 8:05pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 7:59pm: Aussie wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 7:28pm: Gnads wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 7:26pm: Affirmative Action is a divisive crock the best person regardless of gender or race gets the job Is there some sort of gender bias to women in the ALP which is not mirrored in the LNP? 40% men - 40% women - 20% open - that's the ALP quota... Currently women hold 36% of seats held by Labor - immediately after the election a group of women demanded 50% of front bench seats - Tanya Pleb told them to sit down and shut up... they already held 40% of front bench seats..... Now you may deduce from that what you wish - but the fact remains that Labor has a quota system - and it still does not work, as they wish - leading to the demand that women be slotted into all the safe seats first... How utterly nonsensical. Let the people decide..... we're not the pawns for political chicanery and self-interest.... I'm not doubting you about that Mr Grappler, but I'd appreciate a link so I can see the details?

http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talking-about/top-stories/labor-struggling-to-abide-by-its-official-policy-on-preselecting-women/201306052272#.VGsugMm_SAU

Not the policy direct  but discussion of it and how it is (not) working according to their wishes.

Something to work with anyway.

Cods - it seems that the old adage that those who want power are those you would least want to have it, also applies to 'women who want power'.....

We don't have to agree about the merits or otherwise of Julie Bishop.

You should all note that there are no bones made about Affirmative Action being the yardstick for slotting women into the lovely safe seats in that Labor policy.

Now I don;t know how you feel about that - I oppose it utterly, and will never vote for a party that goes that route..

Let the branches decide...... I recall that Julia Gillard stated that was her preference... before the knives were into her back... not a fan of Julia, either - but I just try to be fair....

Let The People Decide!

Aussie wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 7:31pm:

Indonesian Ministry: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/image/1437558/1414394248000/large16x9/768/432/indonesia-cabinet.jpg Abbott's Ministry: http://images-2.drive.com.au/2013/09/19/4760531/ak-pricelead-620x349.jpg

The cabinet of Doctor Caligari:

http://kolokoz.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/630507549.jpg?

freediver wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 7:35pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 6:31pm: ColdFact wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 6:27pm: miketrees wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 2:08am: When will we reassess the need for positive discrimination? If women do not hold 50%+ positions of company directors and seats in parliaments at what point should women start looking at themselves and not at society for the problem. (if it is a problem) Because women aren't a group, they're a gender. Precisely...... there is as much variety amongst women as there is amongst men (thank god).... Actually there is less, which is part of the reason why there aren't as many of them in high places.

Looking at the Abbott cabinet there must be about 5% of females in the overall population?

Or going by the G20 attendance it would be 11%.

The numbers look a bit low to me in terms of representation by population.

To me yes it is a problem, I am not sure that a mandated number would be the best solution and I believe that 50% is too high. Many women take a long time out of the workforce for a variety of reasons primarily family and children. While they should not be penalised it must impact the probability of reaching the top in terms of being competitive against men with more experience.

I would think that somewhere like 35% - 40% would be a reasonable point of balance reflecting numbers in the workforce numbers in the population and the impact of time spent out of the workforce.

Unfortunately I find that in practise women are too rare but even so the women who tend to be successful seem to be the wrong ones, they are often clones of the worst male types too ambitious and much more ruthless than the average male in the corporate realm. When selected as a token gesture they often lack competence and ability in the position. This does happen and it is detrimental to women in the workforce in general.

While I support women in positions of power I can say that in terms of real life situations the four or five times in my life that I was in that position the females involved were all substandard in the positions.

I would love to be able to say that I had worked with a female manager who had the respect and support of her staff and that I had a good working relationship with but it has never happened.

I hope that my experience is far from typical.

My conclusion is yes we need more Women in high position but I do not know how to put the best ones into those jobs.

My industry has always been technical presently IT and the fact that women in this area have always been rare and have been advanced well in front of the development of their skills and ability does more to damage females on the whole than to help.

IT is a difficult field as good technicians seldom make good managers and good managers seldom make good technicians. This is a different issue but could be relevant to parts of my personal experience though many of the females I commented on never even pretended to have technical skills which put them to an additional disadvantage in a technical decision making role.

I find that my beliefs conflict with my experience.

This is  how Muslims handle equality:


Female Indonesian police recruits forced to undergo ‘virginity tests’
Two-finger examination that leaves women traumatised, humiliated and in pain is listed as requirement to join the force.
 

    Kate Hodal in Phnom Penh
    The Guardian, Tuesday 18 November 2014 23.04 AEST      

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/female-indonesian-police-recruits-forced-virginity-test

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/11/18/1416304863522/Frmale-Indonesian-police--011.jpg


Quote:

Female recruits hoping to join Indonesia’s police force are forced to undergo two-finger “virginity tests”, a rights group has found, a practice that leaves the women traumatised, humiliated and in pain. The test is listed publicly as a requirement to enter the force and performed as part of the chief of police’s health inspection guidelines for new candidates, which requires women to complete an “obstetrics and gynaecology” exam. While female recruits are also expected to be single and not marry until they have been in the force for a few years, Indonesia’s national police website claims they must also undergo virginity tests in addition to general medical and physical examinations, with the added warning: “So all women who want to become policewomen should keep their virginity.”

Dnarever wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:33am:

I would love to be able to say that I had worked with a female manager who had the respect and support of her staff and that I had a good working relationship with but it has never happened.

Same.

I think your experience is typical. There never seems to be a harmonious atmosphere where women are in charge, they usually manage to cause unnecessary tensions.

Give a woman an inch of power and she'll take a mile.

Male bosses are better by far, in my experience.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 18^th, 2014 at 9:39pm:

Cods - it seems that the old adage that those who want power are those you would least want to have it, also applies to 'women who want power'..... We don't have to agree about the merits or otherwise of Julie Bishop. You should all note that there are no bones made about Affirmative Action being the yardstick for slotting women into the lovely safe seats in that Labor policy. Now I don;t know how you feel about that - I oppose it utterly, and will never vote for a party that goes that route.. Let the branches decide...... I recall that Julia Gillard stated that was her preference... before the knives were into her back... not a fan of Julia, either - but I just try to be fair.... Let The People Decide!

I am one for believing "let the best man win"..

seeing as how the word women.. is mostly made up of **men.. gender has nothing to do with it...

as for J Bishop she has mainly been maligned by females... no kids etc etc...look at gillard her dress code was mainly attacked by women...as if the way one dresses has anything to do with anything >:( >:(

do the branches really choose the best one though...there again its all factions and political sides....look at the Nova Peris...case in point....would she have even been considered???...

I am not sure what would be the right way....the new Labor way of picking their leader seems  convoluted. and long winded..

it mostly comes down to who has the most backing....which smacks to me of who can make the most promises.... ;) ;)

the 40% female doesnt do it for me....if a damn good man gets left at the post just to fit in a halfbaked female...then I am sorry it wont work.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 7:02am:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:33am: I would love to be able to say that I had worked with a female manager who had the respect and support of her staff and that I had a good working relationship with but it has never happened. Same. I think your experience is typical. There never seems to be a harmonious atmosphere where women are in charge, they usually manage to cause unnecessary tensions. Give a woman an inch of power and she'll take a mile. Male bosses are better by far, in my experience.

more or less what I said pansi.. dont you think women have more insecurities...than men... taking time off for child bearing being just one of them...at the end of the day they are out of action and someone steps into their shoes...it can be a threat to some....

there is no answer..until maybe a women of child bearing age become PM or Pres....and gets pregnant half way through the term...lol..

Id like to see that.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:33am:

To me yes it is a problem, I am not sure that a mandated number would be the best solution and I believe that 50% is too high. Many women take a long time out of the workforce for a variety of reasons primarily family and children. While they should not be penalised it must impact the probability of reaching the top in terms of being competitive against men with more experience. I would think that somewhere like 35% - 40% would be a reasonable point of balance reflecting numbers in the workforce numbers in the population and the impact of time spent out of the workforce. Unfortunately I find that in practise women are too rare but even so the women who tend to be successful seem to be the wrong ones, they are often clones of the worst male types too ambitious and much more ruthless than the average male in the corporate realm. When selected as a token gesture they often lack competence and ability in the position. This does happen and it is detrimental to women in the workforce in general. While I support women in positions of power I can say that in terms of real life situations the four or five times in my life that I was in that position the females involved were all substandard in the positions. I would love to be able to say that I had worked with a female manager who had the respect and support of her staff and that I had a good working relationship with but it has never happened. I hope that my experience is far from typical. My conclusion is yes we need more Women in high position but I do not know how to put the best ones into those jobs. My industry has always been technical presently IT and the fact that women in this area have always been rare and have been advanced well in front of the development of their skills and ability does more to damage females on the whole than to help. IT is a difficult field as good technicians seldom make good managers and good managers seldom make good technicians. This is a different issue but could be relevant to parts of my personal experience though many of the females I commented on never even pretended to have technical skills which put them to an additional disadvantage in a technical decision making role. I find that my beliefs conflict with my experience.

Why do you 'need' more women in higher jobs when the jobs are already filled and the applicant list is overflowing?

Your 'need' is ideological - not rational.

You also 'need' more Aborigines, Muslims, poor white boys and every other kind in higher jobs - but they're not going to get there, are they?

The facts are that women work 32 hours a week on average to men working 41 - which explains both the 'wage (non)_ gap' and their lack of a fast rise to the top unless AA-propelled, and they want all the easy yards and not the hard ones.

AA is destructive in many ways I've outlined before.

Not arguing with your post there - it sounds the good oil to me - but pointing out some things.  Promoting people on some social group basis simply does not work - look at the public service these days.  Over thirty years of AA and women I meet still complaining they don't get the easy road to all the high spots - even though the PS is 70% women and our local Centrelink office has about 26 employees and only three of those are men.

Once you start handouts and freebies - those who receive them expect that to be the norm forever.

cods wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 9:39pm: Cods - it seems that the old adage that those who want power are those you would least want to have it, also applies to 'women who want power'..... We don't have to agree about the merits or otherwise of Julie Bishop. You should all note that there are no bones made about Affirmative Action being the yardstick for slotting women into the lovely safe seats in that Labor policy. Now I don;t know how you feel about that - I oppose it utterly, and will never vote for a party that goes that route.. Let the branches decide...... I recall that Julia Gillard stated that was her preference... before the knives were into her back... not a fan of Julia, either - but I just try to be fair.... Let The People Decide! I am one for believing "let the best man win".. seeing as how the word women.. is mostly made up of **men.. gender has nothing to do with it... as for J Bishop she has mainly been maligned by females... no kids etc etc...look at gillard her dress code was mainly attacked by women...as if the way one dresses has anything to do with anything >:( >:( do the branches really choose the best one though...there again its all factions and political sides....look at the Nova Peris...case in point....would she have even been considered???... I am not sure what would be the right way....the new Labor way of picking their leader seems  convoluted. and long winded.. it mostly comes down to who has the most backing....which smacks to me of who can make the most promises.... ;) ;) the 40% female doesnt do it for me....if a damn good man gets left at the post just to fit in a halfbaked female...then I am sorry it wont work.

The branches choose the one they think is best at the time - win or lose.  I'd say many women would get a fair chance there.

cods wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

it mostly comes down to who has the most backing....

Also known as democracy  :D :D :D :D :D

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 9:33am:

The branches choose the one they think is best at the time - win or lose.  I'd say many women would get a fair chance there

thats how they should do  it ...each branch picks who they like, and its up to the party to work with the choices that were made.

This pick who the factions want and ignore the branch members is not democratic at all  ...

and before Cods jumps onto the bandwagon, both sides do it.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:55am:

This is  how Muslims handle equality: Female Indonesian police recruits forced to undergo ‘virginity tests’ Two-finger examination that leaves women traumatised, humiliated and in pain is listed as requirement to join the force.       Kate Hodal in Phnom Penh     The Guardian, Tuesday 18 November 2014 23.04 AEST       http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/female-indonesian-police-recruits-forced-virginity-test Quote: Female recruits hoping to join Indonesia’s police force are forced to undergo two-finger “virginity tests”, a rights group has found, a practice that leaves the women traumatised, humiliated and in pain. The test is listed publicly as a requirement to enter the force and performed as part of the chief of police’s health inspection guidelines for new candidates, which requires women to complete an “obstetrics and gynaecology” exam. While female recruits are also expected to be single and not marry until they have been in the force for a few years, Indonesia’s national police website claims they must also undergo virginity tests in addition to general medical and physical examinations, with the added warning: “So all women who want to become policewomen should keep their virginity.”

What  - no comment?

It means that all policewomen have to be digitally raped before getting a job.

It's disgusting & a violation of human rights.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/11/18/1416304863522/Frmale-Indonesian-police--011.jpg

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 4:23pm:

What  - no comment? It means that all policewomen have to be digitally raped before getting a job. It's disgusting & a violation of human rights.

Sorry, Bobby. Been defending myself on other threads today.

But it is terrible, and more than a little irrelevant. Why do policewomen have to be virgins? To the blokes undergo a similar assessment? Barbaric. But unsurprising.

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 4:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 4:23pm: What  - no comment? It means that all policewomen have to be digitally raped before getting a job. It's disgusting & a violation of human rights. Sorry, Bobby. Been defending myself on other threads today. But it is terrible, and more than a little irrelevant. Why do policewomen have to be virgins? To the blokes undergo a similar assessment? Barbaric. But unsurprising.

Read the link - they rationalise their rape crime in some way.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/female-indonesian-police-recruits-forced-virginity-test

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 5:59pm:

they rationalise their rape crime in some way.

Just had a quick read - I don't see any rationalising. They just seem to think it's perfectly acceptable. But I think you missed the thrust (pardon the pun) of my argument - why do the *women* need to be be virgins but not the men?

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 5:59pm: they rationalise their rape crime in some way. Just had a quick read - I don't see any rationalising. They just seem to think it's perfectly acceptable. But I think you missed the thrust (pardon the pun) of my argument - why do the *women* need to be be virgins but not the men?

I am sure they check male genitalia too.



Quote:

An Indonesian police spokesman, Maj Gen Ronny Sompie, said the test was no reason to “respond negatively” to the force’s requirements, and that the exam was used to establish whether applicants have a sexually transmitted infection. “All of this is done in a professional manner and [does] not harm the applicants,” Sompie said.

It seems so retarded. STIs can be picked up more effectively through a blood test.

But, they're not checking the dudes' virginity. Sexist! Discrimination!

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:08pm:

It seems so retarded. STIs can be picked up more effectively through a blood test. But, they're not checking the dudes' virginity. Sexist! Discrimination!

how does one do that exactly?

John Smith wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:12pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:08pm: It seems so retarded. STIs can be picked up more effectively through a blood test. But, they're not checking the dudes' virginity. Sexist! Discrimination! how does one do that exactly?

Same way one does with a woman - have a feel, then pronounce one's verdict. About as reliable, too.

John Smith wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:12pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:08pm: It seems so retarded. STIs can be picked up more effectively through a blood test. But, they're not checking the dudes' virginity. Sexist! Discrimination! how does one do that exactly?

It's a case of abuse of power by governments.

It happens here too in other ways.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:20pm:

It's a case of abuse of power by governments. It happens here too in other ways.

Oh? Do share. Have you been fondled by an over-friendly government official, master bobby?

I find this "virginity testing" requirement by Indonesian Police authorities to be typical of what to expect from regressive, oppressive & barbaric Muslim countries .... whether Middle Eastern(Arab) or Asian & in this case SE Asian.

And we import people of this mindset every day.

Fricken unbelievable.

John Smith wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 11:00am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 9:33am: The branches choose the one they think is best at the time - win or lose.  I'd say many women would get a fair chance there thats how they should do  it ...each branch picks who they like, and its up to the party to work with the choices that were made. This pick who the factions want and ignore the branch members is not democratic at all  ... and before Cods jumps onto the bandwagon, both sides do it.

Yes - the infamous parachute of some party beloved.... for whatever reason, such as Julia Gillard to 'make a statement' about 'women being PM' - glurg....

Cost the country a pretty penny that did.... statement over - back to  business as usual...

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 6:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:20pm: It's a case of abuse of power by governments. It happens here too in other ways. Oh? Do share. Have you been fondled by an over-friendly government official, master bobby?

Leaving the personal bullshit out of it (speaks plainly and loudly here) - I'd like to hear that, too.... by your leave, King Bobby....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 19^th, 2014 at 8:56pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:20pm: It's a case of abuse of power by governments. It happens here too in other ways. Oh? Do share. Have you been fondled by an over-friendly government official, master bobby? Leaving the personal bullshit out of it (speaks plainly and loudly here) - I'd like to hear that, too.... by your leave, King Bobby....

Sorry but no.

Let's keep my personal experiences out of this.

Nah.. NAH!  I meant the ab use of power by The Guv....

"Aussie Guv, you are hereby charged with unreasonable treason without reason, a poor attitude towards the poor doing poorly, intrusion into the extruding parts of one gender, philately using the postal service, and..

... frankly, Yer 'Onnah - the list is so long.... can we just cite the capital offences and get on with it?"