http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-eddie-obeid-to-be-prosecuted/5905540


Quote:

Former New South Wales Labor ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald have been ordered to appear in court after prosecutors decided to act on the findings of the state's corruption watchdog. Mr Obeid is being prosecuted for alleged misconduct in public office relating to restaurant leases at Circular Quay in Sydney. Mr Macdonald is being prosecuted for two alleged offences of misconduct in public office over the awarding of a mining licence. In June, Mr Obeid was found to have acted corruptly by the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), which said he "misused his position as an MP" to lobby ministers and a senior public servant over the retail leases.

Where's John S.

I'm sure your comrade at Pricksy Leaks will be right onto this one......

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:52pm:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-eddie-obeid-to-be-prosecuted/5905540 Quote: Former New South Wales Labor ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald have been ordered to appear in court after prosecutors decided to act on the findings of the state's corruption watchdog. Mr Obeid is being prosecuted for alleged misconduct in public office relating to restaurant leases at Circular Quay in Sydney. Mr Macdonald is being prosecuted for two alleged offences of misconduct in public office over the awarding of a mining licence. In June, Mr Obeid was found to have acted corruptly by the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), which said he "misused his position as an MP" to lobby ministers and a senior public servant over the retail leases. Where's John S. I'm sure your comrade at Pricksy Leaks will be right onto this one......

Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone?

He was claiming they would never prosecute him. Like all corrupt pollies I hope they go to town on him.

And so they should be.....

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:52pm:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-eddie-obeid-to-be-prosecuted/5905540 Quote: Former New South Wales Labor ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald have been ordered to appear in court after prosecutors decided to act on the findings of the state's corruption watchdog. Mr Obeid is being prosecuted for alleged misconduct in public office relating to restaurant leases at Circular Quay in Sydney. Mr Macdonald is being prosecuted for two alleged offences of misconduct in public office over the awarding of a mining licence. In June, Mr Obeid was found to have acted corruptly by the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), which said he "misused his position as an MP" to lobby ministers and a senior public servant over the retail leases. Where's John S. I'm sure your comrade at Pricksy Leaks will be right onto this one......

another labor pollie going to jail...  how (not) unusual.

Vic wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone?

What say you, swaggie???

;)

What is this "more" bullshit, Obeid and McDonald have been the mainstream media faces for ALP corruption for the main part...

Same old gobble different turkey.

Got any others to dredge up, clearly nothing new to offer.

Whilst it especially sweet when it's your team this is one of those issues that we should unite on and demand a federal investigation into corruption leaving no stone unturned, these pricks are meant to be representing the peoples interests.

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:59pm:

Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;)

I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald.

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:09pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald.

Corruption is corruption, that's  like saying I didn't rape her because I didn't cum. ::)

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

What is this "more" bullshit, Obeid and McDonald have been the mainstream media faces for ALP corruption for the main part... Same old gobble different turkey. Got any others to dredge up, clearly nothing new to offer.

Ask Aunty ABC Phelmo as it was her that slapped it on her website soon enough.  Maybe she is getting way too much tax-payer funds if she is wasting it on yesterday's news huh  ;D

....or is it her attempt to be unbiased... ;D

Its time wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Whilst it especially sweet when it's your team this is one of those issues that we should unite on and demand a federal investigation into corruption leaving no stone unturned, these pricks are meant to be representing the peoples interests.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:09pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald.

The 'bottle of plonk' wasn't the issue.

Misleading thr Parliament was...

;)

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:09pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald.

Wait till Australian Water Holdings gets fully investigated - some big names are going to fall there!  What was Sinodinos getting per annum for how many hours?  (cough cough)

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:18pm:

Swagman wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:09pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald. The 'bottle of plonk' wasn't the issue. Misleading thr Parliament was... ;)

!I think you mean the ICAC

Its time wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Whilst it especially sweet when it's your team this is one of those issues that we should unite on and demand a federal investigation into corruption leaving no stone unturned, these pricks are meant to be representing the peoples interests.

there is a bit of a difference between not declaring a bottle of win on a pecuniary interest register (not a crime) and defrauding the state of $100M

.....shhhh ICAC will get me for Ozpol posting during work time

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:02pm: What is this "more" bullshit, Obeid and McDonald have been the mainstream media faces for ALP corruption for the main part... Same old gobble different turkey. Got any others to dredge up, clearly nothing new to offer. Ask Aunty ABC Phelmo as it was her that slapped it on her website soon enough.  Maybe she is getting way too much tax-payer funds if she is wasting it on yesterday's news huh  ;D ....or is it her attempt to be unbiased... ;D

They didn't use the title "more alp corrupt bla bla bullshit..." That was all on you mate.

I am sure the story itself is news worthy for some, I am also sure that the ABC were not the only possible source of the story. However, truly, it is nothing new at all, or particularly unexpected.

The only surprising news will be if either of those two grubs have a get outta gaol free card somehow...

The real interesting point made in this thread would be for a bipartisan approach to a federal ICAC.... That would be worth whatever it cost, providing of course that it has far reaching frame work and is not limited. Clearly though, neither team will jump on board that bus eh? Both have far too much at risk on that front.

Should we really be arguing Liberal Vs Labor given current outcomes?

skippy. wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:10pm:

Swagman wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:09pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald. Corruption is corruption, that's  like saying I didn't rape her because I didn't cum. ::)

not even close.  it is like saying I didn't rape her because I walked past her in the street and turned to stare.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:28pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:10pm: Swagman wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:09pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald. Corruption is corruption, that's  like saying I didn't rape her because I didn't cum. ::) not even close.  it is like saying I didn't rape her because I walked past her in the street and turned to stare.

......what did Julian Assange say  ;D

I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians.

If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it.

teddybear wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:23pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:18pm: Swagman wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:09pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald. The 'bottle of plonk' wasn't the issue. Misleading thr Parliament was... ;) !I think you mean the ICAC

Both, actually......

Thanx for bringing that up.

:)

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:46pm:

I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it.

Agree....
If we ever get a Federal unit.

;)

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:28pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:10pm: Swagman wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:09pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:59pm: Vic wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:55pm: Good to see!   Now let's see Mr Sinodinos and the 10 other NSW Liberal MPs face the same.  Bottle of red anyone? What say you, swaggie??? ;) I have no issue with that as long as the punishment fits the crime, O'farrell's bottle of plonk pales into insignificance when compared to Obeid and Macdonald. Corruption is corruption, that's  like saying I didn't rape her because I didn't cum. ::) not even close.  it is like saying I didn't rape her because I walked past her in the street and turned to stare. ......what did Julian Assange say  ;D

Sweden has some rather odd rape laws not the least of which is that a woman can change her mind AFTER THE EVENT and not wearing a condom when the other person wants you to is also rape. 

More ALP corrupt politicians to be prosecuted

It's like I keep saying: Australian politicians have been turned away from the Mafia recruiting office. As soon as our politicians turned up hoping to join the Mafia a foul smell was evident. The source of the smell was traced to the filth known as Australian politicians.

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:46pm:

I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it.

I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country...

like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing..

which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind...

and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk.

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 3:16pm:

Its time wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:07pm: Whilst it especially sweet when it's your team this is one of those issues that we should unite on and demand a federal investigation into corruption leaving no stone unturned, these pricks are meant to be representing the peoples interests. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I agree its a bloody shame we have been brought down to this level....at this rate we could end up with more ex pollies IN jail than OUT of it..

anyone found guilty by the courts.. nothing short of 10 years............

they go on and on about paying them well...

and they are being paid well.....

well the consequences for abusing their position must be harsh...especially when it comes to personal benefit...

Swagman wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:52pm:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-20/ian-macdonald-eddie-obeid-to-be-prosecuted/5905540 Quote: Former New South Wales Labor ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald have been ordered to appear in court after prosecutors decided to act on the findings of the state's corruption watchdog. Mr Obeid is being prosecuted for alleged misconduct in public office relating to restaurant leases at Circular Quay in Sydney. Mr Macdonald is being prosecuted for two alleged offences of misconduct in public office over the awarding of a mining licence. In June, Mr Obeid was found to have acted corruptly by the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), which said he "misused his position as an MP" to lobby ministers and a senior public servant over the retail leases. Where's John S. I'm sure your comrade at Pricksy Leaks will be right onto this one......

Lock him up and throw away the keys .... just make sure the 11 or so libs also found wanting, are in the cell with him

cods wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:33pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:16pm: Its time wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:07pm: Whilst it especially sweet when it's your team this is one of those issues that we should unite on and demand a federal investigation into corruption leaving no stone unturned, these pricks are meant to be representing the peoples interests. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I agree its a bloody shame we have been brought down to this level....at this rate we could end up with more ex pollies IN jail than OUT of it.. anyone found guilty by the courts.. nothing short of 10 years............ they go on and on about paying them well... and they are being paid well..... well the consequences for abusing their position must be harsh...especially when it comes to personal benefit...

there you go again with your silliness regarding 'scale of offence'.  you would send that Lib ex-senator to jail for 10 years for shoplifting???

cods wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:27pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk.

Not really alone, cods.
All corruption should be punished.

I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc.

In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft.

As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'.
It was the lies associated with said bottle....

:)

Corrupt politicians being tried in court? Good. The more the better.

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:39pm:

cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:27pm: Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk. Not really alone, cods. All corruption should be punished. I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc. In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft. As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'. It was the lies associated with said bottle.... :)

there is still a huge difference between the Grange Scandal which remains NOT a criminal offence and that of stealing $100B from the taxpayer.

Bam wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:39pm:

Corrupt politicians being tried in court? Good. The more the better.

there is a labor MP from SA in court now.... child porn.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:39pm: Corrupt politicians being tried in court? Good. The more the better. there is a labor MP from SA in court now.... child porn.

one wonders when there never has been a Labor MP in court......

Vell, I zink in zees times it iz quite rational to prosequte anyvone inwolwed in zee political.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 5:02pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:39pm: cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:27pm: Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk. Not really alone, cods. All corruption should be punished. I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc. In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft. As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'. It was the lies associated with said bottle.... :) there is still a huge difference between the Grange Scandal which remains NOT a criminal offence and that of stealing $100B from the taxpayer.

You lot seem to want to see this 'Bottle' as a stand alone.

Forget about lying to the people...

Fair enough.

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 4:39pm:

cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:27pm: Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk. Not really alone, cods. All corruption should be punished. I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc. In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft. As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'. It was the lies associated with said bottle.... :)

of course.... but he didnt lie in parliament..like some claim..I agree with you

wouldnt it be nice to be asked by an employee if he can borrow or use work equipment...maybe have that policy...would they like it if you walked into their home and helped themselves to something without permission.....

to me thats what its all about...

dont abuse or take anything for granted...

but everything has a line drawn under it..

and I can see a big difference in a bottle of plonk and $millions of dollars made due to dodgy back scratching...

And that's only 1 out of 12.

Ripper!!!

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 5:10pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 5:02pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:39pm: cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:27pm: Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk. Not really alone, cods. All corruption should be punished. I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc. In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft. As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'. It was the lies associated with said bottle.... :) there is still a huge difference between the Grange Scandal which remains NOT a criminal offence and that of stealing $100B from the taxpayer. You lot seem to want to see this 'Bottle' as a stand alone. Forget about lying to the people... Fair enough.

no but even you would have to agree...he didnt steal land from anyone to make millions for himself....

OFarrell fell on his sword more than Obeid ever did..he still claims he did nuffink wrong....they have nothing on him....

will we ever know how much this one man has cost us??????.....well I guess we should say family.....HOW MUCH.......

come on TF even you must be able to see a slight difference..

cods wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 5:10pm:

Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:39pm: cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:27pm: Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk. Not really alone, cods. All corruption should be punished. I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc. In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft. As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'. It was the lies associated with said bottle.... :) of course.... but he didnt lie in parliament..like some claim..I agree with you wouldnt it be nice to be asked by an employee if he can borrow or use work equipment...maybe have that policy...would they like it if you walked into their home and helped themselves to something without permission..... to me thats what its all about... dont abuse or take anything for granted... but everything has a line drawn under it.. and I can see a big difference in a bottle of plonk and $millions of dollars made due to dodgy back scratching...

I'm not sure that he didn't and can't be bothered chasing it up as we all been through all this before.

I do believe it was mentioned in parliament so I presume he gave an answer.
As he denied it for some time there is the possibility he did.
And then there is the fact it was not declared.
An untruth in itself.

;)

Lobo wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 5:10pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 5:02pm: Lobo wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:39pm: cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:27pm: Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Nov 20th, 2014 at 3:46pm: I hope a federal ICAC catches all corrupt politicians. If it takes down the whole parliament then so be it. I am alone I know! but I still believe in our system.. and I still believe for the most part they are honest and there for the benefit of the country... like any industry its not perfect and will always attract those who think they can milk a good thing.. which is what OBEID and Mcdonald did.. they lined their own pockets...and the union guy wasnt far behind... and dont forget this wasnt a one off like a bottle of plonk. Not really alone, cods. All corruption should be punished. I allowed a fair amount of leeway with my people , when it came to "foreign orders", ie. making something for themselves, or family using company materials, etc. In 40-odd years I only had to sack one person for lying/theft. As I said elsewhere today, it wasn't just 'a bottle of plonk'. It was the lies associated with said bottle.... :) there is still a huge difference between the Grange Scandal which remains NOT a criminal offence and that of stealing $100B from the taxpayer. You lot seem to want to see this 'Bottle' as a stand alone. Forget about lying to the people... Fair enough.

I'm not defending it as an action, rather I am making the rather obvious statement that it is NOTHING compared to the theft of $100M