Quote:

But those interviewed also felt enormous pressure to "perform" as good Muslims - to hold themselves up to a higher standard. One noted that any identifiably Muslim person cannot afford to commit an infraction as relatively minor as littering. "The standards they feel they have to meet to be seen as decent people are far higher than others," says Harris. "With this burden of being good, there isn't a lot of time left to just be who you are." Ameera heard the same thing in her interviews. "People said: 'I have to be smiling all the time, because if I don't smile I'll convey that image of the bad Muslim'. They didn't feel they could frown in public." What struck her most in the course of the research was the idea that young Muslims have to work so hard to show people how "normal" they are "by acting out their normalness and explaining their normalness". Perhaps the most striking of the study's findings was the degree to which young Muslims feel positively perceived by their local community (61 per cent) as compared to wider society (25 per cent). In interviews they talked about having open conversations and great interactions with non-Muslims on a one-to-one basis, but feeling isolated and misunderstood on the national stage. "There was this frustration," says Harris, "that they didn't know how to scale up what was working at the community level with a broader public perception."

http://www.theage.com.au/national/so-youre-a-muslim-20141209-1215kk.html

Did any of them mention that their image was being undermined by hundreds of head hacking lunatics?

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 8:20am:

Did any of them mention that their image was being undermined by hundreds of head hacking lunatics?

Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there, it's Kony!!  ;D ;D

If they keep grinning, maybe no-one will notice.

As an expression of sympathy for these people, we should come up with a list of tips for image management. I only have seven so far, but we should be able to manage ten.

Top Ten Tips for Muslim Image Management

1) When in public, always grin to reassure people that you are not carrying any explosives on your person.
2) End all your sentences with "nothing sinister".
3) Tell people about the normal things you do. For example, "This morning I ate cornflakes for breakfast and refrained from plotting to undermine western values. How about you, nothing sinister eh?
4) Don't litter. This makes people think you are a good person. It is who you are.
5) Act out your normalness at every opportunity. It is important to make this appear natural and spontaneous, so don't try too hard.
6) Converse openly and interact greatly with people on a one-to-one basis.
7) Scale up all of this to the national level.

Oh whatever.

6) Converse openly and interact greatly with people on a one-to-one basis. Westerners call this a Turing test and will use it to judge whether you are one of them.
8) Sing along to that song 'Everything is Awesome' from The Lego Movie.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 6:42am:

Quote: But those interviewed also felt enormous pressure to "perform" as good Muslims - to hold themselves up to a higher standard. One noted that any identifiably Muslim person cannot afford to commit an infraction as relatively minor as littering. "The standards they feel they have to meet to be seen as decent people are far higher than others," says Harris. "With this burden of being good, there isn't a lot of time left to just be who you are." .... .... In interviews they talked about having open conversations and great interactions with non-Muslims on a one-to-one basis, but feeling isolated and misunderstood on the national stage. "There was this frustration," says Harris, "that they didn't know how to scale up what was working at the community level with a broader public perception." http://www.theage.com.au/national/so-youre-a-muslim-20141209-1215kk.html

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.



Why should any moslem be ashamed or self conscious about being a moslem, here in Australia ?

Such a suggestion is absurd!!!!

Every one knows that, ISLAM is a peaceful and virtuous faith, and,
that the inspiration to every moslem, Mohammed [the messenger of Allah] was a paragon of virtue!!!



How do we know these things ?

Because the moslem community tell us infidels incessantly, that these things are so !              :P

And we must [be respectful, and] believe the moslem community !

For example, ISLAM is a faith which can proudly claim, to protect the honour of women.


Google;
islam protects the honour of women

one of the hits....

Quote:

How does Islam protect Women from violence? - Discover ... www.discoverislam.com/poster.asp?poster=DIW2004_09&page=2 Verbal, psychological, emotional, sexual, and physical violence are forbidden, as are false allegations against women's chastity and honor. Men are further ...

+++




Quote:

"We went out with Allah's Messenger" = = Mohammed was in the company of these men. "on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" = = it was some form of raiding party, where they, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'. "and we desired them" = = hmmmm, i wonder what that means? "for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" = = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust. "(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them." = = in their minds, they sought to sexually 'use' these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them. "So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them" = = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women.

Those [above] extracts from the Hadith are cited, with references, here;

Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8






+++




Peace and harmony abound, within the holy confines of ISLAMIC doctrine and holy ISLAMIC law.

It is true!!!

Honest!           :P




ISLAMIC LAW......

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06




"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260






+++



THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 10:22am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 6:42am: Quote: But those interviewed also felt enormous pressure to "perform" as good Muslims - to hold themselves up to a higher standard. One noted that any identifiably Muslim person cannot afford to commit an infraction as relatively minor as littering. "The standards they feel they have to meet to be seen as decent people are far higher than others," says Harris. "With this burden of being good, there isn't a lot of time left to just be who you are." .... .... In interviews they talked about having open conversations and great interactions with non-Muslims on a one-to-one basis, but feeling isolated and misunderstood on the national stage. "There was this frustration," says Harris, "that they didn't know how to scale up what was working at the community level with a broader public perception." http://www.theage.com.au/national/so-youre-a-muslim-20141209-1215kk.html Dictionary; Muslim = = a follower of Islam. Why should any moslem be ashamed or self conscious about being a moslem, here in Australia ?

Perhaps because people like you keep reminding them that they supposedly in reality want to cut peoples' heads off and blow themselves up all the time?

No, of course not, that couldn't be a reason, now could it?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 10:22am: Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 6:42am: Quote: But those interviewed also felt enormous pressure to "perform" as good Muslims - to hold themselves up to a higher standard. One noted that any identifiably Muslim person cannot afford to commit an infraction as relatively minor as littering. "The standards they feel they have to meet to be seen as decent people are far higher than others," says Harris. "With this burden of being good, there isn't a lot of time left to just be who you are." .... .... In interviews they talked about having open conversations and great interactions with non-Muslims on a one-to-one basis, but feeling isolated and misunderstood on the national stage. "There was this frustration," says Harris, "that they didn't know how to scale up what was working at the community level with a broader public perception." http://www.theage.com.au/national/so-youre-a-muslim-20141209-1215kk.html Dictionary; Muslim = = a follower of Islam. Why should any moslem be ashamed or self conscious about being a moslem, here in Australia ? Perhaps because people like you keep reminding them that they supposedly in reality want to cut peoples' heads off and blow themselves up all the time? No, of course not, that couldn't be a reason, now could it?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Hot_Breath,

If moslems are such good people [in reality!!!],         then why do moslems refuse to admit what ISLAM is [and why do moslems - WHO ARE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA - promote murder and violence behind closed doors] ??




This shocking and candid YOUTUBE vision [below], shows how some moslems behave, within Australia, behind closed doors.

Moslems - WHO ARE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA - are teaching moslem children to hate Australia and Australians !

    Muslims brainwash children in Australia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E




Hot_Breath,

Why do 'good' moslems - WHO ARE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA -  behave like this ????

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

Hot_Breath, If moslems are such good people [in reality!!!], then why do moslems refuse to admit what ISLAM is [and why do moslems - [u]WHO ARE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA - promote murder and violence [u]behind closed doors] ??

How do you know what goes on behind closed doors?  Are you listening in?  Working for the Secret Police?  Spying on people?

Perhaps you should ask yourself how people who claim to be Christians engage in torture?  Afterall, I'm sure if you asked all those CIA torturers and the people in the US Government which ordered them to torture, they'd all say they were Christians!

Then you have the Australian Government of the day who ignored the protests about the torture of Mandu Habib and Simon Hicks in American hands.  I'm sure John Howard would describe himself as a Christian, don't you think?

Yadda you talk the worst bullshit.  You attack Muslims for anything you perceive as a wrong and ignore all the wrongs committed by your fellow Christians!  You demand that Muslims must give up their religion because some Muslims have committed crimes but ignore the Christians who similar things!  So, when are you going to give up your religion because of what your fellow Christian's crimes?

Or are you going to be a hypocrite?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Hot_Breath,

If moslems are such good and virtuous people [in reality!!!],         then why do moslems refuse to admit to the truth, about what ISLAM is ??

And about what every moslem is ?





Hot_Breath,

Here is another moslem paragon of virtue.

This moslem, lives here in Australia.

And what a credit, 'catmeat' Hilaly is, to all moslems, here in Australia!!!!


Sheik Hilaly Caught vandalizing his own Mosque - YouTube.flv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9O5KPI4qTI



Sheik Hilaly, was, not so long ago, the Mufti of Australia!!

i.e.
The spiritual leader, of ALL moslems, here in Australia.






Yeah,what a paragon of virtue, 'the moslem' in Australia, has revealed himself to be!!!         :P


Shameless Muslim Woman Falsely Accuse Aussie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8tPsk1XbRM

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:09am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 10:51am: Hot_Breath, If moslems are such good people [in reality!!!], then why do moslems refuse to admit what ISLAM is [and why do moslems - WHO ARE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA - promote murder and violence [u]behind closed doors] ?? How do you know what goes on behind closed doors?

HB,

Watch the YT video.

And you will discover what moslems, [u]moslems living here in Australia, are doing behind closed doors!!!




Quote:

This shocking and candid YOUTUBE vision [below], shows how some moslems behave, within Australia, behind closed doors. Moslems - WHO ARE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA - are teaching moslem children to hate Australia and Australians !     Muslims brainwash children in Australia     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:14am:

Hot_Breath, If moslems are such good and virtuous people [in reality!!!],         then why do moslems refuse to admit to the truth, about what ISLAM is ?? And about what every moslem is ?

Yadda said....

Quote:

Every moslem in Australia [and indeed, every moslem on the planet], by self declaring as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems. ISLAM is a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against non-moslems ['unbelievers']. TRUTH. All cognisant moslems themselves, know this to be true, and deny and hide this criminal intent from their non-moslem host communities.

ISLAM'S own manifesto [the Koran] makes 'lawful' [and encourages extreme violence and] the murder of those who do not believe, as moslems believe.

e.g.
The law of ISLAM, declares all mankind who reject ISLAM, to be the servants of SATAN, and therefore WORTHY OF DEATH. [Koran 4.74-76]

In that single 'inerrant' proposition, ISLAM makes moslem 'religious' violence [against those who are not moslems] 'LAWFUL' [AND, also makes the murder of those who are not moslems 'LAWFUL'] !


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


".......And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123



Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


MAINSTREAM ISLAMIC LAW, makes 'lawful', the killing of those who do not believe, as moslems believe.


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Oh whatever.

Surely you must have expected this Annie.

You won't get FD arguing the importance of not alienating the mainstream muslim community by not painting them all with the same brush anymore.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:42am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 9:08am: Oh whatever. Surely you must have expected this Annie. You won't get FD arguing the importance of not alienating the mainstream muslim community by not painting them all with the same brush anymore.

Oh gandalf!!!!!

You mean that we [infidels, on OzPol] are guilty of 'stereotyping' members of the Australian mainstream moslem community!!!!

Shock horror!!!!




Fancy having the gall to associate moslems,     .......with,      .....moslems!

Fancy having the gall to associate moslems,     .......with,      .....ISLAM [and with ISLAM's laws and tenets] !


Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


Google;
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah."




Or is it because you mean that we [infidels, on OzPol] are trying to stereotype members of the mainstream moslem community, as being associated with moslem extremists!!!!



gandalf,

Is your argument now, that moslems [who live in Australia] do not have anything to do, with what ISLAM teaches, within ISLAM's own foundation, religious texts [i.e. the Koran and Hadith, and ISLAM's own law texts] ?



e.g.
MAINSTREAM ISLAMIC LAW, makes 'lawful', the killing of those who do not believe, as moslems believe.


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:14am:

Hot_Breath, If moslems are such good and virtuous people [in reality!!!],         then why do moslems refuse to admit to the truth, about what ISLAM is ?? And about what every moslem is ?

Why Christians refuse to admit to the truth about Christianity?

About what every Christian is?

You're a hypocrite Yadda and you're going to burn in eternal damnation in the fire and brimstone of hell!  You have broken the commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness"!   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
Matthew 7:5

"And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?"
Romans 2:3

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now."
1 John 2:9

"What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"
James 2:14-26

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."
Matthew 7:1

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."
Titus 1:16

:D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

To live up to Christian standards is almost impossible.
To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie.

Soren wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:15pm:

To live up to Christian standards is almost impossible.

Yes, its a pity so few here who profess to be Christians don't even make an attempt, Soren.  Y., Moses, you, are bad examples for the rest of Christianity.


Quote:

To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie.

According to whom?  You?  But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren.  It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::)

Soren wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:15pm:

To live up to Christian standards is almost impossible.

Hence, you’re a Freudian.

Best not to.be too adventurous, old boy. Stay with what you know, eh?

Today’s stool is delicious. Will you have one?

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:46pm:

Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::)

Too easy.........................


According to ISLAM's tenets and laws.








MOSLEM 'YOUTH' IN AUSTRALIA FOLLOWING MOHAMMED'S EXAMPLE.....


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-09/police-say-two-girls-gang-raped-at-fairfield/5377134?section=nsw
2014-04-09

Quote:

Two schoolgirls gang-raped at Fairfield after meeting three men on Sydney train, police say By police reporter Lucy Carter Updated 1 hour 18 minutes ago Two schoolgirls have been gang-raped by three men in broad daylight in Sydney's south west, police say, and there are fears the men could strike again. According to police, the girls, both 16, skipped school in the Blacktown area to go shopping at Castle Hill. ....Superintendent Peter Lennon says they asked three men for directions and were told they would be shown to a bus terminal. "The girls were lost, they were trying to get some help," Superintendent Lennon said. "Unfortunately they were coaxed by these young men into coming to Fairfield - way, way off track of where they wanted to go." ......Superintendent Lennon the men had been described as being of "Middle Eastern Mediterranean" appearance. The first male is described as being aged between 19 and 21 with a dark complexion, about 178cm tall, and with a thin build and dark hair.

MOHAMMED'S EXAMPLE.....



Quote:

"We went out with Allah's Messenger" = = Mohammed was in the company of these men. "on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" = = it was some form of raiding party, where they, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'. "and we desired them" = = hmmmm, i wonder what that means? "for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" = = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust. "(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them." = = in their minds, they sought to sexually 'use' these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them. "So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them" = = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women.

Those [above] extracts from the Hadith are cited, with references, here;

Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8i+++



MOSLEM LAWLESSNESS [AND SEX CRIMES], OUT OF CONTROL IN EUROPE.....

10% of Norwegian Women Have Been Raped by Muslim Immigrants
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1416541277/0#0



A MOSLEM 'RAPE-FEST' IS OCCURRING TODAY, IN EUROPE - WHY ?
HAS THIS EPIDEMIC OF THE MOSLEM RAPE, OF NON-MOSLEM WOMEN IN EUROPE, GOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM ?

http://muslimrapewave.wordpress.com/



Google;
bilal skaf, rape, uncovered women, no right to say no

Google,
"rape jihad"

Google,
Beslan 'jihad', murder and rape-fest, by 'terrorists'

Google,
Beslan 'jihad', babies knifed, school children raped

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 7:46pm: Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::) Too easy......................... According to ISLAM's tenets and laws.

So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda?

Could it be that you've misunderstood Mohammed's message?

Just as it appears you've misunderstood Christianity's?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 1:38pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 7:46pm: Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::) Too easy......................... According to ISLAM's tenets and laws. So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda? Could it be that you've misunderstood Mohammed's message? Just as it appears you've misunderstood Christianity's?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

Genius and biblical scholar able to espouse on misunderstanding religious scripture.   ::)

Religion being what it is, vague, usually contradictory and subjective it is best to leave it at if they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in to take it at face value.

Instead of announcing what is and what isn't misunderstanding.  That's what causes religious poo fights. 

But still, feel free to lecture on religious misunderstandings.   8-)

I say, DL, are you saying we shouldn’t criticize Islam?

I’m curious.

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 2:08pm:

I say, DL, are you saying we shouldn’t criticize Islam? I’m curious.

How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion?

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 2:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 2:08pm: I say, DL, are you saying we shouldn’t criticize Islam? I’m curious. How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion?

Best not to mention hell either, DL. That could cause religious poo fights.

Don’t let FD see your above post. He’ll put it in the Spineless thread of shame.

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 2:19pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 2:13pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 2:08pm: I say, DL, are you saying we shouldn’t criticize Islam? I’m curious. How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion? Best not to mention hell either, DL. That could cause religious poo fights. Don’t let FD see your above post. He’ll put it in the Spineless thread of shame.

Hell in case you didn't know is also a colloquialism.

Sorry, DL, you didn’t answer the question. Should we avoid religious poo fights by not quibbling over Islamic theology?

After all, we might offend someone.

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Sorry, DL, you didn’t answer the question. Should we avoid religious poo fights by not quibbling over Islamic theology? After all, we might offend someone.

It was a comment on the pointlessness of pontificatiing how someone else has misunderstood a religious interpretation.  Vague, subjective and contradictory might have provided a clue for you. 

Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL.

Should we avoid this wherever possible?

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible?

We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message. 

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.

Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the principle we should all follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value".

I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned.

Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here?

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:06pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.  Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value". I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned. Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here?

Read it again.  Parse the words slowly.   It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters.  The writings are vague contradictory and subjective. 

If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free.

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:07pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:06pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.  Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value". I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned. Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here? Read it again.  Parse the words slowly.   It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters.  The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.  If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free.

I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no?

Are you trying to put us all out of a job?

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:15pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:07pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:06pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.  Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value". I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned. Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here? Read it again.  Parse the words slowly.   It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters.  The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.  If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free. I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no? Are you trying to put us all out of a job?

No.

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no? Are you trying to put us all out of a job?

Goodness no K - if DL wasn't able to come in here and troll constantly mock people for talking about islam, he'd have nothing else to do.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:35pm: I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no? Are you trying to put us all out of a job? Goodness no K - if DL wasn't able to come in here and troll constantly mock people for talking about islam, he'd have nothing else to do.

;D I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal.  So what was that about nothing else to do again?

|dev|null wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 1:38pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 7:46pm: Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::) Too easy......................... According to ISLAM's tenets and laws. So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda?

Hot Breath,

Yes, they are.

They are being very, very 'bad' moslems !

In fact Allah [in the Koran] and Mohammed in the Hadith, have stated that such moslems, are NOT in fact moslems!



ISLAMIC law texts - pronouncing death to moslem hypocrites ['wayward' moslems].....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

So if you do not, for example, attend/perform prayers, you are not a moslem

That is the law of ISLAM.





AND....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




AND....

"Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-"
Koran 4.88, 89
These verses advise how moslems should 'interact' with 'hypocrites'.

Good moslems must never take hypocrites/apostates as friends.

And when hypocrites oppose you [in Allah's way, in Allah's cause], kill them.i
Quote:

Could it be that you've misunderstood Mohammed's message?

Hot Breath,

How could i possibly have misunderstood Mohammed's message       ........when Allah himself has stated that Mohamed's behaviour is an exemplar for every pure moslem!


Dictionary;
exemplar = = a person or thing serving as a typical example or appropriate model.



"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah [i.e. Mohammed] a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."
Koran 33.021






Hot Breath,

And what was Mohammed's example ???

Mohammed,     ...the fornicator,     ...the adulterer,     ...the rapist.



Quote:

"We went out with Allah's Messenger" = = Mohammed was in the company of these men. "on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" = = it was some form of raiding party, where they, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'. "and we desired them" = = hmmmm, i wonder what that means? "for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" = = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust. "(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them." = = in their minds, they sought to sexually 'use' these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them. "So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them" = = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women.

Those [above] extracts from the Hadith are cited, with references, here;

Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal.  So what was that about nothing else to do again?

I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here.

But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. As opposed to only coming here to troll other members.

Oh, and I'm not the one constantly declaring "I don't care" about the topics I contribute to.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:54pm: I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal.  So what was that about nothing else to do again? I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here. But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. As opposed to only coming here to troll other members. Oh, and I'm not the one constantly declaring "I don't care" about the topics I contribute to.

It was I care not, and as you well know and I explained in the face of your misrepresentation not about the topic, but a specific post.  I expect outright lies from Brain, devious dishonesty from Hotsocks, but I thought that your previous misreprentation of my care not statement was an aberration in your eagerness to defend your faith, but it appears not.  You are just another dishonest apologist. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:54pm: I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal.  So what was that about nothing else to do again? I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here.

Me too.







Quote:

But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board.

Me too.



But i do worry that ASIO may read my posts, here on OzPol,         .....and conclude that i am really a surreptitious Jihadist [impersonating a Christian here on OzPol]       [.....given all of the violence inspiring Koran and Hadith verses i quote here] !!

Its a worry!         :)

Datalife,

Be advised, gandalf is a moslem, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.




Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:54pm: I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal.  So what was that about nothing else to do again? I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here. But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. As opposed to only coming here to troll other members. Oh, and I'm not the one constantly declaring "I don't care" about the topics I contribute to.

Myself I would be embarrassed to be counted in the ranks of and using the tactics of Brain and Hotsocks, but it seems dishonest debating is a characteristic of islamic apologists. 

You have done your credibility no good.  I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of your faith but you are now happily joined with liars and dishonest dissemblers. Congratulations.




Datalife wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 4th, 2014 at 1:52pm: DL you actually answered the question!  Pity you had to surround it with your usual torrent of abuse.  Just goes to show how childish you that you react so emotionally to anything asked of you.  You must have been a real ball in the Army.  I wouldn't think such an emotional person would have made a good soldier.   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D I thought your comprehension fails were feigned but I can see now that they are probably actual.  You might want to read my last post again, or not, I care not. Your dishonesty in truncating  my post then questioning the changed meaning of that post is blatant and obvious.  Brain is a liar and you're deviously dishonest. What a family, what a tag team pair.  Gandy must be so pleased to have you both in his corner.   ::) So why do the first reponders not respond to threads about christian extremists in the same way they do to islamic extremists?  Page four now and still no answer.  Lots of dishonesty though.   ;D

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:42am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 9:08am: Oh whatever. Surely you must have expected this Annie. You won't get FD arguing the importance of not alienating the mainstream muslim community by not painting them all with the same brush anymore.

Very nice use of the idiom.

However, to continue the analogy, all those spots, stripes and pastels you refer to, all come out of the same can of paint.

This, despite different brushes and their wielders. 

We already know it's not Muslims.

Just out of curiosity DL - do you see any dishonesty on the part of the islam critics - such that might be worth similar treatment?

eg...


Soren wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:42pm:

The 'protest' was about the Swedish police shooting a knife-wielding would-be honour killing old bastard. That's why the 'yoofs' of no particular culture erupted into action. The police shot an Islamic dickhead who was hot to implement Sharia law in his own family and the Mulims took exception to the Swedish law enforcement guys shooting him. It is still against the law to honour kill in Sweden and that infuriates all these 'yoofs' of no particular religion (ie Muslims).

Every word here from Soren is a malicious lie  - there was no muslim involved, and obviously the whole "sharia law" scenario was invented.

Please can you clarify for me - are you actually interested in exposing dishonesty from both sides, or are you (for whatever reason) only interested in what the "apologists" do? It would be simply inconceivable that you haven't noticed any dishonesty from the other side. Its ok if this is the case, you may have a good reason - but from the tone of your last post, it appears that you would be the sort of person concerned about the use of dishonesty to push an agenda by all sides.

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:35pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:15pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:07pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:06pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.  Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value". I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned. Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here? Read it again.  Parse the words slowly.   It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters.  The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.  If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free. I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no? Are you trying to put us all out of a job? No.

If you don’t mind me saying, DL, you’re sounding remarkably like one of those spineless apologists.

We should not question extremists? We should not criticize terrorists? We should not ask religious extremists to account for their actions and beliefs?

I’m appalled.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:53pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 9:48pm: Myself I would be embarrassed to be counted in the ranks of and using the tactics of Brain and Hotsocks, but it seems dishonest debating is a characteristic of islamic apologists.  You have done your credibility no good.  I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of your faith but you are now happily joined with liars and dishonest dissemblers. Congratulations. Just out of curiosity DL - do you see any dishonesty on the part of the islam critics - such that might be worth similar treatment? eg... Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 9:42pm: The 'protest' was about the Swedish police shooting a knife-wielding would-be honour killing old bastard. That's why the 'yoofs' of no particular culture erupted into action. The police shot an Islamic dickhead who was hot to implement Sharia law in his own family and the Mulims took exception to the Swedish law enforcement guys shooting him. It is still against the law to honour kill in Sweden and that infuriates all these 'yoofs' of no particular religion (ie Muslims). Every word here from Soren is a malicious lie  - there was no muslim involved, and obviously the whole "sharia law" scenario was invented. Please can you clarify for me - are you actually interested in exposing dishonesty from both sides, or are you (for whatever reason) only interested in what the "apologists" do? It would be simply inconceivable that you haven't noticed any dishonesty from the other side. Its ok if this is the case, you may have a good reason - but from the tone of your last post, it appears that you would be the sort of person concerned about the use of dishonesty to push an agenda by all sides.

I don't know if every word Soren said was a malicious lie, I do not know the circumstances or the particulars of his claim.  Hell was I even in that thread?

I do however,  now know not to believe anything you say.  You have joined Brain and his identical twin in the credibility rankings.   You must be proud.   ::)

It may have eluded you but those posts of yours and Hotbreaths were posts where you both misrepresented what I said, him by truncating a post and you by straight out bullshit. I can post them again if you like.  That is why I responded.
 

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 10:04pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:38pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:35pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:15pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:07pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:06pm: Karnal wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We?  Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.  Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value". I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned. Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here? Read it again.  Parse the words slowly.   It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters.  The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.  If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free. I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no? Are you trying to put us all out of a job? No. If you don’t mind me saying, DL, you’re sounding remarkably like one of those spineless apologists. We should not question extremists? We should not criticize terrorists? I’m appalled.

Once more just for you, what I said, complete and in context.  If you take what I said to mean we should not question or  critisise terrorists I can only blame your idiocy. 


Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 1:38pm: Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 7:46pm: Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::) Too easy......................... According to ISLAM's tenets and laws. So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda? Could it be that you've misunderstood Mohammed's message? Just as it appears you've misunderstood Christianity's?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D Genius and biblical scholar able to espouse on misunderstanding religious scripture.   ::) Religion being what it is, vague, usually contradictory and subjective it is best to leave it at if they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in to take it at face value. Instead of announcing what is and what isn't misunderstanding.  That's what causes religious poo fights.  But still, feel free to lecture on religious misunderstandings.   8-)

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 10:05pm:

I don't know if every word Soren said was a malicious lie, I do not know the circumstances or the particulars of his claim.  Hell was I even in that thread?

This is just one of many DL - and yes it was a lie - Soren grudgingly conceded this himself after I pushed him a few posts later.

The point is though, your a seasoned observer of the islam discussions - that is quite obvious. It is simply inconceivable that you are not aware of any dishonesty from the islam-critic side. But if you need more proof, check out Yadda's 'muslims raped 10% of all Norwegian women' thread. I was struck by how you didn't jump in to a) condemn the obvious dishonesty with the thread title and the "evidence" used and b) castigate all the islam critics who appeared in that thread who also didn't say a word against the outrageous claim.

So I'd appreciate an answer to my question, if you can - is it that you are only interested in exposing the dishonesty apologists, or are you actually interested in speaking out against dishonesty from *ALL* sides? - and if so, why have you been so conspicuously silent about the dishonesty of the islam critics?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 10:17pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:05pm: I don't know if every word Soren said was a malicious lie, I do not know the circumstances or the particulars of his claim.  Hell was I even in that thread? This is just one of many DL - and yes it was a lie - Soren grudgingly conceded this himself after I pushed him a few posts later. The point is though, your a seasoned observer of the islam discussions - that is quite obvious. It is simply inconceivable that you are not aware of any dishonesty from the islam-critic side. But if you need more proof, check out Yadda's 'muslims raped 10% of all Norwegian women' thread. I was struck by how you didn't jump in to a) condemn the obvious dishonesty with the thread title and the "evidence" used and b) castigate all the islam critics who appeared in that thread who also didn't say a word against the outrageous claim. So I'd appreciate an answer to my question, if you can - is it that you are only interested in exposing the dishonesty apologists, or are you actually interested in speaking out against dishonesty from *ALL* sides? - and if so, why have you been so conspicuously silent about the dishonesty of the islam critics?

I have never responded to yaddas gear.  I consider him a ranting religious lunatic.  What's the point in debating lunatics?  Hotsocks obviously thinks it is worthwhile discussing theology and informing him that he has misunderstood the message of two major religions.  Hotsocks has the time and inclination, I couldn't be bothered. 

If you are aggrieved I do not treat religions equally  that is because  I do not consider them equal. In my opinion, militant  and aggressive Islam is a threat to the modern western secular world I enjoy and its freedoms of thought and behaviour and its efforts toward equality.

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 1:38pm: Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 7:46pm: Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::) Too easy......................... According to ISLAM's tenets and laws. So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda? Could it be that you've misunderstood Mohammed's message? Just as it appears you've misunderstood Christianity's?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D Genius and biblical scholar able to espouse on misunderstanding religious scripture.   ::) Religion being what it is, vague, usually contradictory and subjective it is best to leave it at if they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in to take it at face value. Instead of announcing what is and what isn't misunderstanding.  That's what causes religious poo fights.  But still, feel free to lecture on religious misunderstandings.   8-)

Anytime.  I'm a quick study.  Amazing what you can learn if you read well and quickly DL.  I could have found a copy of "Christianity for Dummies" like Yadda seems to have and away you go!   ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Yadda wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 1:38pm: Yadda wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 7:46pm: Quote: To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie. According to whom? You? But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren. It lacks any objectivity on the matter.  ::) Too easy......................... According to ISLAM's tenets and laws. So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda? Hot Breath, Yes, they are. They are being very, very 'bad' moslems ! In fact Allah [in the Koran] and Mohammed in the Hadith, have stated that such moslems, are NOT in fact moslems!

According to whom?  You?  But Yadda, we know you're not a very good Christian, Moses has told us that.  You keep quoting from the Old Testament and invoking Mosaic Law, which as Moses keeps informing us, has been superseded!

So, if you've got your own religion wrong, according to one it's chief proponents in this forum, what does that suggest about your interpretation of Islam?   How do we know you haven't got it all wrong as well?  I mean, your track record hasn't been very good, now has it?

;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 10:01pm:

Just out of curiosity DL - do you see any dishonesty on the part of the islam critics - such that might be worth similar treatment?

Careful G.  You're trying to usurp DL spot.  He's the only one who's allowed to comment on inconsistencies.  You can't point out his inconsistencies!   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 10:38pm:

I have never responded to yaddas gear.  I consider him a ranting religious lunatic.  What's the point in debating lunatics?

But this isn't about the religious lunatics.

The Norway rape thread is a good case in point. Freediver jumped in to the thread clearly attempting to punch holes in my rebuttal of the such blatantly obviously dishonest use of evidence in the OP. This would have provided a perfect segue for you to jump in and get on your moral high horse about all these apologists apologising for dishonesty to push an agenda. In fact the thread has 5 pages of islam critics doing anything and everything but acknowledging - let alone criticising - the blatant lies in the OP. How did you describe it at the beginning of this thread - oh thats right "Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there".

So you still haven't answered my question - and no, this isn't about treating religions equally - this is about the non-religious (your HBs and Brians) who a) demonstrably resort to outrageous lies to push their case (Soren) and b) spinelessly apologise for liars and deceivers - and adopt the very "hey look over there" attitude that prompted your presense in this thread in the first place.

Just be honest DL - if you are only interested in exposing the "hey look over there" crowd from the islam side, then thats fine. But since it is literally impossible for you to have missed the very same antics from the islam critics, I think its fair to ask why you ignore it. If I may be so bold, its behaviour akin to "Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there".

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 11:13pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:38pm: I have never responded to yaddas gear.  I consider him a ranting religious lunatic.  What's the point in debating lunatics? But this isn't about the religious lunatics. The Norway rape thread is a good case in point. Freediver jumped in to the thread clearly attempting to punch holes in my rebuttal of the such blatantly obviously dishonest use of evidence in the OP. This would have provided a perfect segue for you to jump in and get on your moral high horse about all these apologists apologising for dishonesty to push an agenda. In fact the thread has 5 pages of islam critics doing anything and everything but acknowledging - let alone criticising - the blatant lies in the OP. How did you describe it at the beginning of this thread - oh thats right "Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there". So you still haven't answered my question - and no, this isn't about treating religions equally - this is about the non-religious (your HBs and Brians) who a) demonstrably resort to outrageous lies to push their case (Soren) and b) spinelessly apologise for liars and deceivers - and adopt the very "hey look over there" attitude that prompted your presense in this thread in the first place. Just be honest DL - if you are only interested in exposing the "hey look over there" crowd from the islam side, then thats fine. But since it is literally impossible for you to have missed the very same antics from the islam critics, I think its fair to ask why you ignore it. If I may be so bold, its behaviour akin to "Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there".

You may not consider Yadda a religious lunatic, maybe your perception is shaped by your being a creature of faith yourself, but I do so therefore I ignore him, he is as tedious and repetitious as Karnal.

As for that thread Norway thread you  are berating me about, I found it,

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1416541277/60

If you can bother wading through through it you will see I was not even a participant in it, maybe it happened on one of those days I was not present, or more likely I ignored it as I do much of yaddas gear. 

You attempting to take  me to task for not using a thread I was not a participant in and was hardly aware of is and not using it as a segue is laughable and very much in the manner of the dishonest tactics of Brain and his eye swivveling identical twin. 

Speaking of which, you might find value in the pairs "hey look over there" tactics of "debate", in which it is implicit that islamic atrocities should be ignored cos other religions commit atrocities as well.  ::)   

I find that pointless and idiotic and this from a pair of which one pretends to be a scholar...or not, and the other reckons he is a genius.  And the best method of debate they can summon is a googlefu of mostly dodgy equivalencies which frankly a bot could do just as well.  But it suits you because it distracts from exposure of the head loping lunatics which share your religion. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 11:13pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:38pm: I have never responded to yaddas gear.  I consider him a ranting religious lunatic.  What's the point in debating lunatics? But this isn't about the religious lunatics. The Norway rape thread is a good case in point. Freediver jumped in to the thread clearly attempting to punch holes in my rebuttal of the such blatantly obviously dishonest use of evidence in the OP. This would have provided a perfect segue for you to jump in and get on your moral high horse about all these apologists apologising for dishonesty to push an agenda. In fact the thread has 5 pages of islam critics doing anything and everything but acknowledging - let alone criticising - the blatant lies in the OP. How did you describe it at the beginning of this thread - oh thats right "Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there". So you still haven't answered my question - and no, this isn't about treating religions equally - this is about the non-religious (your HBs and Brians) who a) demonstrably resort to outrageous lies to push their case (Soren) and b) spinelessly apologise for liars and deceivers - and adopt the very "hey look over there" attitude that prompted your presense in this thread in the first place. Just be honest DL - if you are only interested in exposing the "hey look over there" crowd from the islam side, then thats fine. But since it is literally impossible for you to have missed the very same antics from the islam critics, I think its fair to ask why you ignore it. If I may be so bold, its behaviour akin to "Elephant in the room...quick! Look over there".

DL just acknowledged that this is just what he’s doing with his "not all religions are equal" comment.

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Speaking of which, you might find value in the pairs "hey look over there" tactics of "debate", in which it is implicit that islamic atrocities should be ignored cos other religions commit atrocities as well.  ::)

Not ignore, placed in context.   Why should Islam be condemned for doing what Christianity has already done?  The critics of Islam ignore the sorry record of Christianity and other religions and single out Islam and more importantly, the followers of that religion for condemnation while ignoring others.  Perhaps the real point is, where is the idea of the "fair go" which the same people proclaim is an ideal they supposedly subscribe to?  Out the window with most of the other principles they proclaim are exclusively theirs whenever Muslims are being discussed.

Your like to talk about consistency DL yet you are no better than anybody else as far as inconsistency goes.  You won't acknowledge that in your holier than thou attitude.  You are part of the problem, not it's solution.   You sit on the sidelines criticising everybody but never take part yourself.  I wonder why?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

You may not consider Yadda a religious lunatic

Of course I do - I thought I made it clear my point was not about Yadda. How could you misunderstand me so spectacularly?


Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

If you can bother wading through through it you will see I was not even a participant in it

Um yes DL - thats precisely my point. *Insert massive facepalm* Why are you in *THIS* thread - and all the other "apologist" threads, but completely ignore all the "hey look over there" apologists for anti-islam deceit (or in this case just coincidentally always just "miss" them)?

Never mind DL - as you were - its obvious that you are going to resort to the tried and true tactic of obfuscation to avoid my questions. In any case, I think your emperors clothes have been more than adequately exposed in this thread - your contributions are nothing but slimy and mendacious - and you then feign ignorance to cover it up when taken to task. Whats that favourite term of yours - oh yes "tapdancing". You are a world class tapdancer DL.

Karnal wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

DL just acknowledged that this is just what he’s doing with his "not all religions are equal" comment.

Well yes, but its worth pointing out that even in making this "admission" he is using deceit. His moralising is not against religion - its against the "hey look over there" atheist apologists - not religious people like me or Yadda.

Put simply, his grandstanding is a grandstanding against hypocricy itself - nothing to do with the fact that he considers islam worse than any other religion. So that comment is nothing but deflective tapdancing. The truth is - its he that is the hypocrite - he rails against the "look over there" apologism, and yet he completely ignores an entire side of it. And given how prolific this apologism is, his silence on it is deafening.

Yadda wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 9:29pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 4:54pm: I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal.  So what was that about nothing else to do again? I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here. Me too. Quote: But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. Me too. But i do worry that ASIO may read my posts, here on OzPol,         .....and conclude that i am really a surreptitious Jihadist [impersonating a Christian here on OzPol]       [.....given all of the violence inspiring Koran and Hadith verses i quote here] !! Its a worry!         :)

Christians aren’t perfect, Y, just forgiven.

Surely only if they repent and change their ways?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

Surely only if they repent and change their ways?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Y’s a Karmic Khristian.

They blame the sinner, not the sin.

|dev|null wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 8:30am: Speaking of which, you might find value in the pairs "hey look over there" tactics of "debate", in which it is implicit that islamic atrocities should be ignored cos other religions commit atrocities as well.  ::)    Not ignore, placed in context.   Why should Islam be condemned for doing what Christianity has already done?  The critics of Islam ignore the sorry record of Christianity and other religions and single out Islam and more importantly, the followers of that religion for condemnation while ignoring others.

Your protestations of providing context might be credible, if as was seen in a thread about christian atrocities you performed your reflex relativism googlefu and posted a counterpoint about an islamic atrocity. 

But you don't, despite your pretensions  of unbiased and intellectual fairness you seek to defend one religion and not another. 

You ask why Islam should be condemned.  It's excesses should be condemned.  Same as atrocities committed in the name of jebus should be condemned.  I am not the one on record saying they I cannot critisise chopping off heads for the crime of not sharing a faith or believing in a sky fairy.  That is the side of the street you walk on.

I will happily critisise such acts. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 9:55am: DL just acknowledged that this is just what he’s doing with his "not all religions are equal" comment. Well yes, but its worth pointing out that even in making this "admission" he is using deceit. His moralising is not against religion - its against the "hey look over there" atheist apologists - not religious people like me or Yadda. Put simply, his grandstanding is a grandstanding against hypocricy itself - nothing to do with the fact that he considers islam worse than any other religion. So that comment is nothing but deflective tapdancing. The truth is - its he that is the hypocrite - he rails against the "look over there" apologism, and yet he completely ignores an entire side of it. And given how prolific this apologism is, his silence on it is deafening.

What do I ignore?  I have already demonstrated I ignore Yaddas gear, if you want me to get engaged with his idiocy then you are barking up the wrong tree.  I couldn't be bothered.  I couldn't be bothered with Karnals repetitive rubbish as well.  Sue me, I have a short attention span and repetive and pointless poo bores me. 

So maybe you can post some examples of what you think I ignore and, within limits of my patience and time I tolerate on this forum I will do my best to accomodate you. 

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:

What do I ignore?  I have already demonstrated I ignore Yaddas gear, if you want me to get engaged with his idiocy then you are barking up the wrong tree.  I couldn't be bothered.  I couldn't be bothered with Karnals repetitive rubbish as well.  Sue me, I have a short attention span and repetive and pointless poo bores me.

There you go again. Even after explaining to you - 3 times now - that its not Yadda I'm talking about, here you are again obfuscating with red herrings and feigning ignorance. I say feigning because it really does defy belief that you would be genuinely so clueless about what I'm talking about. I even gave you not one, but two painfully clear example of what I'm talking about - Soren's lies, and FD performing your favourite "hey look over there" act. Its all there DL, I couldn't be more clearer, don't play this stupid "I'm to dumb to understand basic English" act - its pathetic.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 5:14pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 5:00pm: What do I ignore?  I have already demonstrated I ignore Yaddas gear, if you want me to get engaged with his idiocy then you are barking up the wrong tree.  I couldn't be bothered.  I couldn't be bothered with Karnals repetitive rubbish as well.  Sue me, I have a short attention span and repetive and pointless poo bores me.  There you go again. Even after explaining to you - 3 times now - that its not Yadda I'm talking about, here you are again obfuscating with red herrings and feigning ignorance. I say feigning because it really does defy belief that you would be genuinely so clueless about what I'm talking about. I even gave you not one, but two painfully clear example of what I'm talking about - Soren's lies, and FD performing your favourite "hey look over there" act. Its all there DL, I couldn't be more clearer, don't play this stupid "I'm to dumb to understand basic English" act - its pathetic.

I have tried to accomodate your idiocy, I do not go patrolling threads to detect lies, I use view by time and if a post comes up that interests me I will engage in debate.  As for your "it's all there" , once more, for the terminally stupid asyou are appearing to be, it was a thread which I did not notice, or otherwise ignored and in which I did not participate.

Maybe I was having a beer and watching TV at the time you insist that I should have been responding.  Who the bugger knows?  I certainly don't. 

If you want post something where you believe I should have responded, not withstanding that I am not here 24/7, that I may have missed it, found it uninteresting, was distracted by another thread, etc etc.

Post away, if you want me to respond to a lie by Soren, post it here, demonstrate it is a lie and I might get interested. 

Yet you claim DL to know everything that has been posted about Islam and Muslims and accuse people like myself of always posting distractions.  How can you know, unless you read all the threads and all the posts?

Sounds to me like yet again your hoist on your own inconsistencies.   ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

I do not go patrolling threads to detect lies,

Hilarious. Your trolling of HB and Brian demonstrates otherwise.

DL it really doesn't matter what you choose to criticise - just don't be such a hypocrite about it. Just come out and acknowledge you are being selective - that you are only interested in criticising apologists for islam because its islam - not because you are this great crusader against hypocricy and apologism per se. That would earn you at least some respect - not this pathetic tapdancing act trying to convince us that you really are consistent - and its just pure coincidence that you just happened to miss all the hypocricy and apologism by the islam critics.

|dev|null wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Yet you claim DL to know everything that has been posted about Islam and Muslims and accuse people like myself of always posting distractions.  How can you know, unless you read all the threads and all the posts? Sounds to me like yet again your hoist on your own inconsistencies.   ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

That doesn't sound like anything I would claim.  Maybe you should find that post of mine and post it here. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 5:45pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 5:26pm: I do not go patrolling threads to detect lies, Hilarious. Your trolling of HB and Brian demonstrates otherwise. DL it really doesn't matter what you choose to criticise - just don't be such a hypocrite about it. Just come out and acknowledge you are being selective - that you are only interested in criticising apologists for islam because its islam - not because you are this great crusader against hypocricy and apologism per se. That would earn you at least some respect - not this pathetic tapdancing act trying to convince us that you really are consistent - and its just pure coincidence that you just happened to miss all the hypocricy and apologism by the islam critics.

Great crusader?  LOL, all I have done is demonstrate that Brain and little Brain will defend one religion and not another. 

Not that it took any demonstrating, the "look over there" tactics.  Seems to have hit some nerves though.   8-)

PS you found that post by Soren that you claim is a lie and you are all hepped up for me to respond to?  Make it snappy, I am not here all night. 

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 5:52pm:

PS you found that post by Soren that you claim is a lie and you are all hepped up for me to respond to?  Make it snappy, I am not here all night.

Good grief, why on earth would you think that?

Stop missing the point - the point is that its just one of many many cases that you systematically ignore. Learn about these yourself if you feel so inclined - you don't seem to need any prompting to pick up on Brian and HB's alleged apologetics.

Just stop the tapdancing - you said yourself not all religions are equal - you obviously have a particular axe to grind against islam - which is fine. But just be honest enough to admit this is whats driving your attacks against Brian and HB - not any genuine desire to expose hypocricy and apologising for extremists.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 5:52pm: PS you found that post by Soren that you claim is a lie and you are all hepped up for me to respond to?  Make it snappy, I am not here all night. Good grief, why on earth would you think that? Stop missing the point - the point is that its just one of many many cases that you systematically ignore. Learn about these yourself if you feel so inclined - you don't seem to need any prompting to pick up on Brian and HB's alleged apologetics. Just stop the tapdancing - you said yourself not all religions are equal - you obviously have a particular axe to grind against islam - which is fine. But just be honest enough to admit this is whats driving your attacks against Brian and HB - not any genuine desire to expose hypocricy and apologising for extremists.

Why on earth would I think that?  Oh dear, read back your own posts where you are berating me for not responding to a thread I was not even aware of, then demanding I respond to lies you claim Soren has committed without even the courtesy of detailing them here as I requested.  You want me to respond to them, at least quote them. 

I don't have an axe against Islam apart from noting, as I did previously and you have forgotten that I dislike militant Islam and consider it a threat to the freedoms and the way of life I enjoy.  Head lopping lunatics tend to do that and unlike some I have no problems in criticising such behaviour, as much as you would prefer that no one mention the murderous antics of your fellow religious co travellers.

As for Brain and identical little Brain, responding to posts is not trolling and if it was, you are apparently trolling me.   ;D

I also freely admit I dont like the pair, one is a demonstrated liar, the so called genius likewise is deviously dishonest and they are both apologists for actions which I abhor, ...hey look over there.   ;D

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 4:53pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 12:06pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 8:30am: Speaking of which, you might find value in the pairs "hey look over there" tactics of "debate", in which it is implicit that islamic atrocities should be ignored cos other religions commit atrocities as well.  ::)    Not ignore, placed in context.   Why should Islam be condemned for d Your protestations of providing context might be credible, if as was seen in a thread about christian atrocities you performed your reflex relativism googlefu and posted a counterpoint about an islamic atrocity.

In other words, you demand that threads on Christian shootings get turned into threads on Muslim.atrocity.

In fact, in the said thread, you jumped in first to state just this.

You wouldn’t happen to be a Christian extremist would you, DL? I’m curious.

Karnal wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 6:46pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 4:53pm: |dev|null wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 12:06pm: Datalife wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 8:30am: Speaking of which, you might find value in the pairs "hey look over there" tactics of "debate", in which it is implicit that islamic atrocities should be ignored cos other religions commit atrocities as well.  ::)    Not ignore, placed in context.   Why should Islam be condemned for d Your protestations of providing context might be credible, if as was seen in a thread about christian atrocities you performed your reflex relativism googlefu and posted a counterpoint about an islamic atrocity.  In other words, you demand that threads on Christian shootings get turned into threads on Muslim.atrocity. In fact, in the said thread, you jumped in first to state just this. You wouldn’t happen to be a Christian extremist would you, DL? I’m curious.

In other words.... ;D

I was pointing out the ironing that in a thread about christian atrocities the first responders didn't flood it with reflexive googlefu equivalencies about islamic atrocities.

Compare and contrast, if you can, if you have the ability which I doubt, to a thread about Islamic atrocities where the first responders flood it with reflexive googlefu equivalencies about Christian atrocities.

What does that suggest to you about the bias of the first responders? 

None, some? 

You know it is true, you just prefer tap dancing to acknowledgment of a not very remarkable observation that the first responders will attempt to distract any thread describing Islamic acts of buggerwittery. 

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 9:05am:

Top Ten Tips for Muslim Image Management 1) When in public, always grin to reassure people that you are not carrying any explosives on your person.

Jesus! That's the last thing you should do.

A young heavily-bearded male of 'Middle Eastern appearance' on his own in a crowded shopping centre, and sporting a huge demented grin on his face as if he's expecting to meet 72 virgins at any moment ~ is liable to get shot first and asked questions later.

**

(Incidentally, have you Sydneyites noticed that media descriptions of 'persons of interest' being 'sought' by the police are now no longer being described as 'of Middle Eastern appearance' ~ but of 'Middle Eastern and Mediterranean appearance'?)

Spreading the peanut butter over a wider area is now creating a stigma upon the Greek and Italian communities as never before.

Yes, DL, some would show some humility and respect in a thread about atrocities - particularly a first responder. Can you imagine one of your family members being shot in the street by a Christian extremist?

Instead, you preferred to turn their memory into an anti-Muslim bunfight. Needless to say, the rest of the thread followed suit, which was your intention.

I’m curious though - which of my posts do you ignore? You’ve responded to each and every one here within minutes.

Karnal wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

I’m curious though - which of my posts do you ignore? You’ve responded to each and every one here within minutes.

The ones where you are not asking me a question and inviting a response.  Or to put it another way, the 99.99 percent of your massive post count and daily output of repetitive rubbish.

miam miam etc etc etc

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 7:49pm: I’m curious though - which of my posts do you ignore? You’ve responded to each and every one here within minutes. The ones where you are not asking me a question and inviting a response.  Or to put it another way, the 99.99 percent of your massive post count and daily output of repetitive rubbish. miam miam etc etc etc

Miam miam, no?

I’m.curious.

Datalife wrote on Dec 13^th, 2014 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 13th, 2014 at 7:49pm: I’m curious though - which of my posts do you ignore? You’ve responded to each and every one here within minutes. The ones where you are not asking me a question and inviting a response.  Or to put it another way, the 99.99 percent of your massive post count and daily output of repetitive rubbish. miam miam etc etc etc

It's just an angry mussey nothing more. It can't think for itself and is told what to say on autopilot while the old man is down the bar sinking beers with his mates and picking up real women to subsidize his cleaner and cook garbage bag.

Matty! Where have you been?

We’ve missed you here, you know. Welcome back.