https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/25985756/no-awards-for-male-siege-hostages-nsw-mp/?cmp=ydn

Male hostages who fled the fatal Sydney siege shouldn't receive bravery awards, NSW MP Fred Nile says.

The divisive figure reckons Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, who were both killed along with gunman Man Haron Monis in the 16-hour siege, should receive the awards.

Bravery awards should not be given to the men who fled the Lindt Cafe during the fatal 16-hour siege, NSW MP and Christian leader Fred Nile says. Photo: AAP

But the men who escaped from the Lindt Cafe don't.

"They should get recognition for what they suffered as hostages but I don't think they should get bravery awards," Mr Nile told Fairfax Radio.

"Maybe they could have done something more to protect the women."

"Normally bravery awards are given for an act of bravery - that somebody actually does something. They haven't done anything."

A)  I'd suggest he try it some time.

B)  What would he have them do under a gun?

C)  Awards should only be given for proven acts of bravery.  Sorry - there is little to no sign that the lawyer lady did anything exceptional, apart from die.  Awards are not given for bravery for dying.

D)  I doubt any of them expected any 'bravery' awards anyway.  Certainly I wouldn't in their situation.  Just glad to get out alive.

E)  What IS it with this guy and this 'the men should have protected the women' - by irritating the gunman and taking a load of buckshot?  HTS does that 'protect' anyone?

'the men should have protected the women'

Sexist, religious nut-job.

I tend to agree somewhat with Nile.

How many bank tellers, retailers shop assistants etc get shotguns pointed at them by psychos every day, without being recognised with bravery awards?

If one selflessly puts one's own personal safety on the line to protect others then they should definitely be recognised.  If any of the hostages did this then they should be recognised with some sort of bravery award.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

'the men should have protected the women' Sexist, religious nut-job.

LOL

Peccer would run like a scared little girl!

Does not surprise me.

;D ;D

Swagman wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:45pm:

I tend to agree somewhat with Nile. How many bank tellers, retailers shop assistants etc get shotguns pointed at them by psychos every day, without being recognised with bravery awards? If one selflessly puts one's own personal safety on the line to protect others then they should definitely be recognised.  If any of the hostages did this then they should be recognised with some sort of bravery award.

You "tend.....somewhat" do you?  How jolly spikey it must be eating toffee while sitting on the fence.  I agree with Nile 100%.

Its a politically correct progressive world these days where students get A's just for turning up to class and hostages get medals just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

B)  What would he have them do under a gun?

Monday's experts    ::)

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/25985756/no-awards-for-male-siege-hostages-nsw-mp/?cmp=ydn Male hostages who fled the fatal Sydney siege shouldn't receive bravery awards, NSW MP Fred Nile says. The divisive figure reckons Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, who were both killed along with gunman Man Haron Monis in the 16-hour siege, should receive the awards. Bravery awards should not be given to the men who fled the Lindt Cafe during the fatal 16-hour siege, NSW MP and Christian leader Fred Nile says. Photo: AAP But the men who escaped from the Lindt Cafe don't. "They should get recognition for what they suffered as hostages but I don't think they should get bravery awards," Mr Nile told Fairfax Radio. "Maybe they could have done something more to protect the women." "Normally bravery awards are given for an act of bravery - that somebody actually does something. They haven't done anything." A)  I'd suggest he try it some time. B)  What would he have them do under a gun? C)  Awards should only be given for proven acts of bravery.  Sorry - there is little to no sign that the lawyer lady did anything exceptional, apart from die.  Awards are not given for bravery for dying. D)  I doubt any of them expected any 'bravery' awards anyway.  Certainly I wouldn't in their situation.  Just glad to get out alive. E)  What IS it with this guy and this 'the men should have protected the women' - by irritating the gunman and taking a load of buckshot?  HTS does that 'protect' anyone?

Grappler - I agree.

getting out alive would be a good outcome for me.

Aussie wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 14th, 2015 at 12:45pm: I tend to agree somewhat with Nile. How many bank tellers, retailers shop assistants etc get shotguns pointed at them by psychos every day, without being recognised with bravery awards? If one selflessly puts one's own personal safety on the line to protect others then they should definitely be recognised.  If any of the hostages did this then they should be recognised with some sort of bravery award. You "tend.....somewhat" do you?  How jolly spikey it must be eating toffee while sitting on the fence.  I agree with Nile 100%.

I only "tended: and "somewhatted" Aussie old bean, because I believe that the hostages that escaped early on acted bravely.

They likely didn't know whether they were going to walk smack into another armed psycho?

They were also able to give the authorities vital info.

They were likely looking after their own 'A' but acted bravely nevertheless... :-?

So, they were brave for that.  How jolly.

Nile is a nutter. But he has a point on this. Why should someone who ran away or did nothing get a bravery award? Is not crapping your pants while you flee danger what passes for bravery nowadays?

I should get a bravery award for hanging out on this board, only a real hero would risk his sanity by associating with you lot.   :D

I only ones who deserves a bravery award is the poor bugger that got executed and the cops that had the guts to storm the shop.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

'the men should have protected the women' Sexist, religious nut-job.

true though. And the women would have expected the men to do so. 

Rocketanski wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:21pm:

I only ones who deserves a bravery award is the poor bugger that got executed and the cops that had the guts to storm the shop.

What about the woman killed by the police?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

B)  What would he have them do under a gun?

That is where the bravery bit comes in ?

We don't know what went on in there - helping someone escape with you might have taken some bravery.  If they had a chance to escape and take 1 or 2 with them, it beats staying to try and take everyone, which would have bugger-all chance of success.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Jan 14th, 2015 at 2:21pm: I only ones who deserves a bravery award is the poor bugger that got executed and the cops that had the guts to storm the shop. What about the woman killed by the police?

She deserves a massive payment going to her family. Monis and his wife deserve to be chucked into a landfill somewhere.

That's not what bravery awards should be given for.

Bad luck award for those that died (not the gunman)

and

Good luck awards for those that survived.

Julius Abbott wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

Nile is a nutter.

And a religious nutter at that!

And WTF does he know what was happening inside, there are a lot of dead heros around!

Twit imo!

If I was in there I woulda [insert hero story here]

Recognition for surviving a horrific experience, sure.  Bravery awards, nah.    People perform acts of selfless bravery every day that go unrecognised.

The families of those killed should receive compensation.

Getting out alive would certainly have been enough for me.

Nile is a jerk who should be ignored.  But since when was 'bravery' defined as being taken hostage or getting killed in the process?  Sad, yes. But the only one worthy of a heroes medal is the guy trying to get the gun off him.  The rest do not.

I have admiration for all those that handled the situation but bravery medals are for actual acts of bravery.  Let's not dilute the meaning of yet another word, please.

The last thing I read was that Mr Johnson was shot in the back of the head after the last 5 hostages ran free.


Quote:

After initially firing his shotgun after five hostages fled, Monis is understood to have calmly walked towards Mr Johnson — who had his back to Monis — before shooting him in the back of the head. It was then that the officers entered the cafe and “pumped him with bullets”.

A horrible thing to happen and very sad indeed but we may never know what really happened inside the Lindt cafe.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sydney-siege-gunman-man-haron-monis-was-prepared-to-kill-all-lindt-cafe-hostages/story-fnpn118l-1227180818650

innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

I should get a bravery award for hanging out on this board, only a real hero would risk his sanity by associating with you lot.   :D

;D

I can't believe this sexist crap, no self respecting woman in the 21st century wants to be rescued by a man, if you even tried you'd likely get a high heel in the forehead, could you even imagine trying to drag one to safety, decades of gillard like feminist ideology would kick in and they'd be like get your filthy man hands off of me you disgusting cock and balls equipped misogynist scum.  :D

FSS - the SAS guys who got the VC in Afghanistan were as surprised as anyone else - they just figured they did their job, and any one of their mates would have done the same.

My DSC is mounted  in the museum with the caption:-

"Won by all the Members of the Legion."

I don't want it.

innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:26pm:

I can't believe this sexist crap, no self respecting woman in the 21st century wants to be rescued by a man, if you even tried you'd likely get a high heel in the forehead, could you even imagine trying to drag one to safety, decades of gillard like feminist ideology would kick in and they'd be like get your filthy man hands off of me you disgusting cock and balls equipped misogynist scum.  :D

rubbish. Still a virgin eh?

Black Orchid wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 3:46pm:

Recognition for surviving a horrific experience, sure.  Bravery awards, nah.    People perform acts of selfless bravery every day that go unrecognised. The families of those killed should receive compensation. Getting out alive would certainly have been enough for me.

This.

ian wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 10:13pm:

innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 14th, 2015 at 9:26pm: I can't believe this sexist crap, no self respecting woman in the 21st century wants to be rescued by a man, if you even tried you'd likely get a high heel in the forehead, could you even imagine trying to drag one to safety, decades of gillard like feminist ideology would kick in and they'd be like get your filthy man hands off of me you disgusting cock and balls equipped misogynist scum.  :D rubbish. Still a virgin eh?

.. and will not be lectured about misogyny by THAT man!......

Nile is right in that they shouldn't get bravery awards simply for being taken hostage. But at least one should be given to the guy who died trying to knock down Monis after he shot the female hostage in the head. As for Nile saying the men should've done more, it's easy for him to say that from the comfort of his parliamentary office, guarded by armed parliamentary guards! The hostages did the right thing - you don't give a deranged gunman MORE reasons to shoot you by antagonising him.

Quote:

you don't give a deranged gunman MORE reasons to shoot you by antagonising him.

Your sure you are in the right Thread? This is about Nile/Monis and not Charlie Hebdo/Muslims.

I have heard that there was no struggle between Tori and Monis for the gun. Monis is alleged to have simply put the gun to the back of Tori's head and blown him away.

I'm sure the inquest will clear this up. I am in no way criticising Tori, just working through how it all happened.

Those in the cafe should have just called him a racist and a bigot. Peace would have then ensured.

There is but ONE individual could TRUELY be labelled a "HERO" in this whole nasty episode - and worthy of a (posthumous) bravery award




Quote:

THE manager of the Lindt cafe who was fatally shot in the Martin Place siege is being praised as a hero who helped others trapped in the cafe to escape. Tori Johnson, 34, was wrestling a gun from hostage-taker Man Haron Monis when he was killed. It is understood the cafe manager decided to take action when the gunman began to doze off after the siege had been ongoing for 17 hours. He lunged at the hostage-taker’s weapon, allowing others to flee. He was one of two hostages killed in the siege, with 38-year-old lawyer Katrina Dawson also fatally shot. http://www.news.com.au/national/martin-place-cafe-siege-police-storm-cafe-and-kill-gunman-sheik-man-haron-monis/story-fncynjr2-1227157498633

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/12/19/1227161/511495-313eab02-8707-11e4-991f-1aa9aef274b6.jpg

Sydney siege victim Tori Johnson, right, pictured with his partner of 14 years Thomas Zinn

Poor form that. Using the death of a man to promote an agenda.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 11:43am:

Poor form that. Using the death of a man to promote an agenda.

I'll leave that to Tom Zinn - but I doubt HE would see your "agenda", as you put it

This "Bravery" award thing is only in the minds of those promoting the "victim mentality". It's a way of shifting blame from the powers that be and multiculturalists for their globalist policies that they know will have teething troubles while they destroy Australian nationhood and sovereignty in accordance with the thinking of the world elite

So the bravery awards then become reality to appease the masses who will continue to blame the gunman for his stupid act of aggression. By doing this, the powers that be and the multiculturalists are attempting to protect themselves from any future retribution at the ballot box etc. It's a clever tactic, giving the masses something like that just like the clever tactic of giving the politically dumbed down a host of celebrity "whinge" and "slimming pill" etc stories on tv to keep them happy and further hide the real politics that's going on from them. The politics of global integration by destroying our sovereignty, both national and personal

Nile was basically right, he just got all the wording and grammar wrong and it was imprudent for him to say "the only man there was the gunman"

The law of nature which more than applies when you're in a tight corner demands that you save yourself first by whatever means, then and only then do you try to save others if they mean something to you. So what would others mean to us ? Well, that's up to the individual to decide ... and tell me you're not thinking in an individual way about family, friends and your car payments when there is suddenly a chance you may lose your life in the next few minutes

Tori is the only hostage that deserves an award

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:52pm:

Tori is the only hostage that deserves an award

Not too many would disagree
( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

Not too many would disagree ( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)

He deserves an award not because he was gay you nong, he deserves it because he attempted to bring the ordeal to an end and lost his life in the process

Personally, I wouldn't have gone for the gun, I would have shoved a car key in his eye, to take him out, not the gun

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17th, 2015 at 1:11pm: Not too many would disagree ( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out) He deserves an award not because he was gay you nong

At NO point did I SUGGEST that
I DID point out - based on his reaction and past "form" - Andrei would find some reason to oppose any "bravery award" BECAUSE Tori was gay ( ... or even MORE SO, if he was INDIAN)

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17th, 2015 at 12:52pm: Tori is the only hostage that deserves an award Not too many would disagree ( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)

A stupid post.
Bias' comment is right. His bravery and his sexuality are totally irrelevant and there was zero need for you to point it out other continue an agenda you have.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 7:50am:

... at least one should be given to the guy who died trying to knock down Monis after he shot the female hostage in the head.

Creative embellishment - or just an over-active imagination ?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 7:50am:

Nile is right in that they shouldn't get bravery awards simply for being taken hostage. But at least one should be given to the guy who died trying to knock down Monis after he shot the female hostage in the head. As for Nile saying the men should've done more, it's easy for him to say that from the comfort of his parliamentary office, guarded by armed parliamentary guards! The hostages did the right thing - you don't give a deranged gunman MORE reasons to shoot you by antagonising him.

It was actually a police bullet that killed the female hostage

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/martin-place-siege-victim-katrina-dawson-struck-by-a-police-bullet-investigations-show-20150110-12lo8n.html


It has also been claimed that Monis was not falling asleep when Tori tried to grab the gun

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-siege-inside-the-terrifying-hostage-drama-20141217-129bkh.html

I'm not being judgemental, but as much as we would like the hostages to be heros it may not turn out that way once the investigation has been completed. It's quite possible that if Tori had been more patient everybody would have got out alive.

Whilst Nile may have had a very vague point he is basically calling the male hostages gutless and attributes bravery to the gunman.....Nile would have done nothing if he was in the same situation.....Nile can get stuffed IMO!!!

>:( >:( >:(

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 11:19am:

There is but ONE individual could TRUELY be labelled a "HERO" in this whole nasty episode - and worthy of a (posthumous) bravery award Quote: THE manager of the Lindt cafe who was fatally shot in the Martin Place siege is being praised as a hero who helped others trapped in the cafe to escape. Tori Johnson, 34, was wrestling a gun from hostage-taker Man Haron Monis when he was killed. It is understood the cafe manager decided to take action when the gunman began to doze off after the siege had been ongoing for 17 hours. He lunged at the hostage-taker’s weapon, allowing others to flee. He was one of two hostages killed in the siege, with 38-year-old lawyer Katrina Dawson also fatally shot. http://www.news.com.au/national/martin-place-cafe-siege-police-storm-cafe-and-kill-gunman-sheik-man-haron-monis/story-fncynjr2-1227157498633 http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/12/19/1227161/511495-313eab02-8707-11e4-991f-1aa9aef274b6.jpg Sydney siege victim Tori Johnson, right, pictured with his partner of 14 years Thomas Zinn

anyone who helped Tori wrestle the gunman  should get a bravery award,. All others, counselling .