Has the pope sent the Catholic church back ten centuries by authorising wars against Muslims again?

What next? Inquisitions perhaps?


Quote:

The Vatican’s line on ISIS has taken a new turn, as its ambassador in Geneva suggested that if a political settlement is impossible, military force should be used against the jihadists... ...The statements may come as a surprise to those who remember the Vatican’s past abhorrence of military violence in the region, but Tomasi’s statements are actually not a new thing; Pope Francis has said in the past that military force is a “legitimate” way... http://rt.com/news/240845-vatican-isis-military-force/

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis.

Once again we have someone posting a title which is at best an exaggeration or at worst a lie.

There is no "Crusade" in the Vatican policy. Its about protecting Christians in the Middle East. The Crusades were about seizing the Holy Land from Islam. Its already in the hands of the Jews.

If you don't like the Vatican that's fine with me, but don't try to make out that this is something that it is not.

This is the first step in taking land.

Biggest joke of all is

the alleged 'holy lands' is in Arabia

In fact, there's a little known book about it.  The author claims the reason they've never been able to find many of the Biblical locations in Palestine (now partly Israel) is because those names were mistranslated

It's an interesting book:  ' The Bible Came from Arabia' by Kamal Salibi ... Radical Reinterpretation of Old Testament Geography'

From the back cover:
'Kamal Salibi, professor of history at the American University of Beirut, reveals startling linguistic evidence which controversially suggest that Judaism originated not in Palestine but in West Arabia

Whilst looking at a gazeteer of Saudi place names, he noticed a remarkable concentration of Biblical place names in an area 600km long by 200 km wide - Asir.  Ancient Hebrew, like Arabic, ws written without vowels.  Salibi believed that scholars of the sixth century might have added the vowels wrongly when standardizing texts, and so he went back to the original unvowelled texts, and so he went back to the original unvowelled Old Testament to prove his theory -- and it did

The geography of Palestine has never corresponded in any way to the apparently specific stories in the Bible.  Salibi's research authenticates the events as history for the first time -- but within an Arabic setting

This book has caused a predictable storm amongst academics and politicians.  The issue is of such importance that everyone should read the evidence first hand'

Publishers vied to publish the book, initially.  Then, pressure was very much brought to bear and the original publishers backed out.  After considerable time, Salibi found a publisher brave enough to publish his findings.  But very few are even aware the book exists and even less are aware of Asir and the role it plays in history


The title's above, plus author

ISBN 0 330 29519 5  (English language version)

My edition's by Pan Books

Every attempt is made by paid-to-posts to dissuade people from reading the book.  Which means you should


Just imagine if the contents of the book, namely that the 'holy lands' lies in Arabia, became common knowledge

just imagine

.


Quote:

Asir, Arabic ʿasīr, ("Difficult Country"), region of southwestern Saudi Arabia immediately north of Yemen. Asir consists of about 40,000 square miles (100,000 square km) of Red Sea coastal plains, high mountains, and the upper valleys of the wadis (seasonal watercourses) Bīshah and Tathlīth

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/38711/Asir



Here's Wikipedia re: Asir

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asir_Region

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis.

Similarities between the US and Nazis:

*both have at some stage have been enthusiastic supporters of eugenics
*use of concentration camps
*overambitious invasions of Eastern nations that turned to disaster.
*reliance on propaganda
*extermination of ethnic minorities.

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis.

While I realise that this is an old video (circa 2009), it may well be worth watching:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU


Now, after watching, is the Pope's call to arms all that surprising?

We're already looking to the next Crusade.

If we lose, we already know what to expect.

Julius Abbott wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2015 at 9:21pm: Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis. Similarities between the US and Nazis: *both have at some stage have been enthusiastic supporters of eugenics *use of concentration camps *overambitious invasions of Eastern nations that turned to disaster. *reliance on propaganda *extermination of ethnic minorities.

Did you know that Muhammed once slaughtered about 800 unarmed Jewish POWs in one day. According to Gandalf they deserved it for being scheming Jews.

PZ547 wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 10:29pm:

Biggest joke of all is the alleged 'holy lands' is in Arabia In fact, there's a little known book about it.  The author claims the reason they've never been able to find many of the Biblical locations in Palestine (now partly Israel) is because those names were mistranslated It's an interesting book:  ' The Bible Came from Arabia' by Kamal Salibi ... Radical Reinterpretation of Old Testament Geography' From the back cover: 'Kamal Salibi, professor of history at the American University of Beirut, reveals startling linguistic evidence which controversially suggest that Judaism originated not in Palestine but in West Arabia Whilst looking at a gazeteer of Saudi place names, he noticed a remarkable concentration of Biblical place names in an area 600km long by 200 km wide - Asir.  Ancient Hebrew, like Arabic, ws written without vowels.  Salibi believed that scholars of the sixth century might have added the vowels wrongly when standardizing texts, and so he went back to the original unvowelled texts, and so he went back to the original unvowelled Old Testament to prove his theory -- and it did The geography of Palestine has never corresponded in any way to the apparently specific stories in the Bible.  Salibi's research authenticates the events as history for the first time -- but within an Arabic setting This book has caused a predictable storm amongst academics and politicians.  The issue is of such importance that everyone should read the evidence first hand' Publishers vied to publish the book, initially.  Then, pressure was very much brought to bear and the original publishers backed out.  After considerable time, Salibi found a publisher brave enough to publish his findings.  But very few are even aware the book exists and even less are aware of Asir and the role it plays in history The title's above, plus author ISBN 0 330 29519 5  (English language version) My edition's by Pan Books Every attempt is made by paid-to-posts to dissuade people from reading the book.  Which means you should Just imagine if the contents of the book, namely that the 'holy lands' lies in Arabia, became common knowledge just imagine

BAhahahahahhahahahhahahha

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis.

True... But it does reveal that maybe the Vatican (and the pope) are only a nudge away from their medieval ancestors in advocating 'Holy War'... Not much of a step away from Islamic Ayatollahs.

issuevoter wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 10:05pm:

Once again we have someone posting a title which is at best an exaggeration or at worst a lie. There is no "Crusade" in the Vatican policy. Its about protecting Christians in the Middle East. The Crusades were about seizing the Holy Land from Islam. Its already in the hands of the Jews. If you don't like the Vatican that's fine with me, but don't try to make out that this is something that it is not.

Yes, but advocating war of any kind by a Pope is dangerous ground for a 21st century Vatican.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2015 at 9:21pm: Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis. True... But it does reveal that maybe the Vatican (and the pope) are only a nudge away from their medieval ancestors in advocating 'Holy War'... Not much of a step away from Islamic Ayatollahs.

If you are going to talk in steps that big, we are all one step away.

The swiss guard will have trouble camoflauging in the desert.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 17th, 2015 at 10:50pm: freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2015 at 9:21pm: Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If only they had shown a bit more spine against the Nazis. True... But it does reveal that maybe the Vatican (and the pope) are only a nudge away from their medieval ancestors in advocating 'Holy War'... Not much of a step away from Islamic Ayatollahs. If you are going to talk in steps that big, we are all one step away.

Maybe, but we're not all the ordained Vicar of Christ.

Quote:

Yes, but advocating war of any kind by a Pope is dangerous ground for a 21st century Vatican.

Advocating that we do not come to the assistance of ISIS' victims is hardly a good option either. The Vatican does not exactly get kudos for failing to stand up to the Nazis.

This is not the same thing as a crusade.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:18am:

Quote: Yes, but advocating war of any kind by a Pope is dangerous ground for a 21st century Vatican. Advocating that we do not come to the assistance of ISIS' victims is hardly a good option either. The Vatican does not exactly get kudos for failing to stand up to the Nazis. This is not the same thing as a crusade.

The Vatican talking of war is a throwback to medieval and early modern times when the great religious institution of the Vatican had the authority to declare war.

As most significant leading institution of a self-declared religion of peace and love, it is not required of the Vatican to advocate war in the 21st century... Although that doesn't mean silence (i.e. The Great Silence - to which you allude re the Nazis).

A severe and justified criticism of Islamism is that religious leaders are free to advocate war.

Quote:

The Vatican talking of war is a throwback

Wrong. This might make sense if there had been no war since medieval times. The Vatican talking of war is the Vatican talking about real problems faced by people today.

I have never heard people criticise Islam for the freedoms it allows. Until now.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 9:48pm:

Quote: The Vatican talking of war is a throwback Wrong. This might make sense if there had been no war since medieval times. The Vatican talking of war is the Vatican talking about real problems faced by people today.

It's not the remit of a religious institution to advocate for war... Most particularly the Vatican.


freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 9:48pm:

I have never heard people criticise Islam for the freedoms it allows. Until now.

Are you telling me you've never heard criticism of Islamic leaders claiming Koranic right to make war?

Quote:

It's not the remit of a religious institution to advocate for war... Most particularly the Vatican.

Is this a rule you just invented? Can you give us a list of things the Vatican is remitted to discuss? I assume politics is out too?


Quote:

Are you telling me you've never heard criticism of Islamic leaders claiming Koranic right to make war?

Sure. I have just never heard criticism based on their liberty to do so.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 10:08pm:

Quote: It's not the remit of a religious institution to advocate for war... Most particularly the Vatican. Is this a rule you just invented? Can you give us a list of things the Vatican is remitted to discuss? I assume politics is out too?

Why should the Vatican be free to dabble in the 'magisterium' of the secular? Only by virtue of the 19th century Italian nationalists' compromise (as they stripped the Vatican of political and secular power) can it even claim the status of a crypto-state. This is the 21st century. The Vatican should be stripped of its statehood.  Its a 44 hectare Christian church. Let it be that.


freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 10:08pm:

Quote: Are you telling me you've never heard criticism of Islamic leaders claiming Koranic right to make war? Sure. I have just never heard criticism based on their liberty to do so.

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Pope Benedict XVI.

Quote:

Why should the Vatican be free to dabble in the 'magisterium' of the secular?

You're not a big fan of freedom are you?


Quote:

The Vatican should be stripped of its statehood.  Its a 44 hectare Christian church. Let it be that.

Why should you be free to dabble in Italy's magisterium? Or the Vatican's?


Quote:

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Pope Benedict XVI.

Again, there is no criticism of liberty here. You threw that in yourself. These are criticisms of people's actions, not their liberties.

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 8:40am:

Quote: Why should the Vatican be free to dabble in the 'magisterium' of the secular? You're not a big fan of freedom are you? [quote]The Vatican should be stripped of its statehood.  Its a 44 hectare Christian church. Let it be that.

Why should you be free to dabble in Italy's magisterium? Or the Vatican's?


Quote:

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Pope Benedict XVI.

Again, there is no criticism of liberty here. You threw that in yourself. These are criticisms of people's actions, not their liberties.[/quote]

many blessings freediver

are you a vatican apologist here ?

are you in a conundrum concerning your freemasonic oaths

you have taken and overlapping vows of fealty ..

and as such

you are merely repeating masonic doctrine and agenda ..

this is exposed with

so very much love

so be at peace

namaste

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 10:08pm: Quote: It's not the remit of a religious institution to advocate for war... Most particularly the Vatican. Is this a rule you just invented? Can you give us a list of things the Vatican is remitted to discuss? I assume politics is out too? Why should the Vatican be free to dabble in the 'magisterium' of the secular? Only by virtue of the 19th century Italian nationalists' compromise (as they stripped the Vatican of political and secular power) can it even claim the status of a crypto-state. This is the 21st century. The Vatican should be stripped of its statehood.  Its a 44 hectare Christian church. Let it be that. freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 10:08pm: [quote]Are you telling me you've never heard criticism of Islamic leaders claiming Koranic right to make war? Sure. I have just never heard criticism based on their liberty to do so.

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Pope Benedict XVI.

[/quote]

many blessings and quite rich from this peadophile ratzinger

forced to resign amid scandal of leaks concerning peadophiliac priests and techniques used

to hide their dark masonic doctrine and servants of moloch and the looting of the world to line their coffers

yet Lo, 

these servants of moloch are exposed and banished from this world

in the name of the divine and sacred christ light

and so be it for it is now in these days of deliverance

ye shall know as much as the christ light continues

to descend and expand within the all of creation

upon this world and be it so

namaste

There is a disturbing trend towards pre-Vatican II habits within the Vatican...

The shock (and guilt) of WW2 and the Vatican's role in antisemitism before WW2 and it 'Great Silence' during, is starting to abate.

I believe we can expect more advocation for war from the Vatican over the next few years, thereby binding the faithful, like their medieval ancestors, to 'Holy War'.

it_is_the_light wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:40am:

many blessings and quite rich from this peadophile ratzinger

and the culture he delved in.

Another one bites the dust...for a few months anyway.



Quote:

Jesuit priest Stanislaus Hogan jailed over child pornography found in Saint Ignatius' College quarters Updated about 3 hours ago An Adelaide Jesuit priest and teacher found with more than 1,500 pornographic images of boys has been jailed for more than two years. Stanislaus Hogan, 70, was found with books, magazines and videos of young and teenage boys, in his private quarters at Saint Ignatius' College in Adelaide's eastern suburbs in August 2013. He was on the college staff at the time of his arrest. Hogan told the Adelaide District Court he used some of the books and videos as a way to help understand...himself. Judge Peter Brebner told Hogan the production of child pornography meant children were sexually exploited and his actions had helped create a market for such material... ...Hogan...will be able to seek parole in 10 months. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-20/st-ignatius-jesuit-priest-stan-hogan-jailed-child-porn/6336244

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:06am:

There is a disturbing trend towards pre-Vatican II habits within the Vatican... The shock (and guilt) of WW2 and the Vatican's role in antisemitism before WW2 and it 'Great Silence' during, is starting to abate. I believe we can expect more advocation for war from the Vatican over the next few years, thereby binding the faithful, like their medieval ancestors, to 'Holy War'.

The Vatican's ambassador in Geneva has said the use of force will be necessary to protect minority groups from Islamic State aggression if a political solution cannot be achieved.
In an interview with U.S. Catholic website Crux, Archbishop Silvano Tomasi said the jihadists, who have declared a cross-border caliphate after seizing land in eastern Syria and northern Iraq, were committing "genocide" and must be stopped.
"What's needed is a coordinated and well-thought-out coalition to do everything possible to achieve a political settlement without violence," Crux quoted Tomasi as saying on Friday, "but if that's not possible, then the use of force will be necessary."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/11473055/ISIL-force-may-be-necessary-says-Vatican-ambassador-to-Geneva.html


What you are saying is that if Christians, the Vatican in particular, cannot reason with Muslim aggressors then the Muslim aggressors should be left alone to continue.
ANd you are saying this from what you imagine to be a moral high horse.
But it isn't. It's just stupid.

John XXIII realised after WW2 that the Catholic Church's attitude towards Jews prior to the early 30s, helped sustain centuries of virulent European antisemitism that ultimately resulted in the Holocaust.

When the Vatican states were seized by the Italian Nationalists  in the 19th century, the troops were greeted by the population within these states as liberators from Papal oppression.

I do not believe the religious institution that is the Vatican should have a temporal role at all in the 21st century. Its power should lie solely in its moral high ground.

This does not mean silence - (i.e. The silent stand it took with Nazi Germany in exchange for keeping its property and land in Germany and having its neutrality respected).

The Vatican's advocating for war could easily have the blowback effect of inciting Christian extremists.

Whenever the Vatican has taken a position away from its supreme religious ideals, it's always at the cost of its moral authority.

Perhaps it is the growing realisation by the Vatican and many others that unless Islamism pulls back, a confrontation with the West and/or Christianity created by Islamism will become necessary.

It is not Christians who are running around and advocating killing people in Christian countries just for being non-Muslim.

“If a madman were to come into this room with a stick in his hand, no doubt we should pity the state of his mind; but our primary consideration would be to take care of ourselves.  We should knock him down first, and pity him afterwards.”

- Samuel Johnson (1709-1784), British author.

If Christianity is a religion of love and peace... it must needs defend itself first.  Such is the choice being thrust upon it.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 11:30am:

I do not believe the religious institution that is the Vatican should have a temporal role at all in the 21st century. Its power should lie solely in its moral high ground.

... which you do not accept.

So they should not shup up but remain completely neutered and let Christians be killed by the more motivated and less fastidious Muslims who are not called upon to display any kind of moral ground, high or low, because they are not to be expected to have one.

Good one. Your own idea?  Or is this just your riff on the soft bigotry of low expectations from Muslims while blame is sheeted home to Christianity no matter who is killing them.
As the Germans will never forgive the Jews for the Holocaust, Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists are never forgiven for being victimised by Islam.

Julius Abbott wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:00am:

Has the pope sent the Catholic church back ten centuries by authorising wars against Muslims again? What next? Inquisitions perhaps?

The pope is instructed by his royal masters to talk tough, so to get as many catholics as possible to support their dirty wars.

I've said it years ago, they're planning the next Inquisition. In 2011 the Vatican changed Canon Law. Now you CANNOT OFFICIALLY LEAVE the catholic church anymore. They don't allow it. They will keep you registered even if you inform them of your renounciation. Even worse - as was reported from Ireland a few years ago - they put you on a black list instead, possibly for the future...

Why would an organisation or a club not allow you to resign unless they have really bad intentions? No good person in the world would force you to be a member of any club or religion.

I must be wrong because I thought the Pope was head of a Christian religion that promoted the teachers of Jesus. Like "love thy enemy", "turn the other cheek" and "those that live by the sword die by it".

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 9:54pm:

Did you know that Muhammed once slaughtered about 800 unarmed Jewish POWs in one day. According to Gandalf they deserved it for being scheming Jews.

You got a link to prove that was what Gandalf said FD?  Or is that how you (mis)interpreted what he said?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

gone wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 2:06pm:

Julius Abbott wrote on Mar 16th, 2015 at 5:00am: Has the pope sent the Catholic church back ten centuries by authorising wars against Muslims again? What next? Inquisitions perhaps? The pope is instructed by his royal masters to talk tough, so to get as many catholics as possible to support their dirty wars. I've said it years ago, they're planning the next Inquisition. In 2011 the Vatican changed Canon Law. Now you CANNOT OFFICIALLY LEAVE the catholic church anymore. They don't allow it. They will keep you registered even if you inform them of your renounciation. Even worse - as was reported from Ireland a few years ago - they put you on a black list instead, possibly for the future... Why would an organisation or a club not allow you to resign unless they have really bad intentions? No good person in the world would force you to be a member of any club or religion.

I think you're bullshitting.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D