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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1426476108 Message started by Soren on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:21pm

Title: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:21pm

And the demo for which THOUSANDS of Muslims actually did turn up?

The anti free speech demo in London.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944946/Thousands-British-Muslims-protest-against-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-publishing-cartoons-Prophet-Mohammed.html
No mere 'liney thoughts' there, oh no.

You're opposed to free speech? Step right this way.

Meanwhile a group of tribal leaders presented a petition to Number 10 Downing Street which they said had been signed by 100,000 UK Muslims criticising publications which ‘sow the seeds of hatred’. The gathering blocked off Whitehall and saw crowds flowing around the cenotaph and the statues of Viscount Alanbrooke and Montgomery of Alamein. Among the speakers was one Shaykh Tauqir Ishaw, a spokesman for the organisers who said:

‘Perpetual mistakes by extremists, either by cold-blooded killers or uncivilised expressionists, cannot be the way forward for a civilised society.

The peace-loving majority of people must become vociferous in promoting global civility and responsible debate. At this time of heightened tension and emotion, it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring.’

Of course much though these fanatics may like to pretend otherwise there are no ‘two sides’ of the same coin going on here. The ‘expressionists’ and the ‘terrorists’ are not ‘as bad as each other’. The only two things which are in fact conjoined are the people who use guns and bombs to terrorise people for exercising their rights as free Europeans and the very large number of people from the ‘moderate majority’ who back up such violence (even while, like yesterday’s speakers, claiming to deplore it) with warnings that non-Muslims should be ‘careful’ when addressing their religion.

The interesting thing about this is that if you compare the photos from yesterday in London and the photos of protests during the Satanic Verses affair twenty-six years ago you will see that nothing has improved in this country. If anything it has got far worse. Why is that? Why is it that in 2015 a crowd of thousands and a petition of a hundred thousand citizens can understand so little about the country they live in, its traditions and freedoms, that they would even think of petitioning the Prime Minister of Britain about cartoons in a French newspaper?
\
It could have gone so much better if at any point since 1989 a political leader of any party had found the guts to say, ‘These are the rules here, and these are our traditions. If you don’t like them then hop it.’ But no one has. And that is why, in 2015, Britain has learnt nothing and progressed nowhere on all this.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2015/02/these-are-the-rules-here-and-these-are-our-traditions-if-you-dont-like-them-then-hop-it/

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by PZ547 on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:51pm

Cartoons ?

Cartoons ?

Gee, I'll have to have a dig around to find something I can be offended by, I suppose

and when they look back from year 2260, kids in those schools will have to learn about today's Offended Era

or maybe they'll make it sound really important -- The Era of Widespread Offence?

poor kids of the future

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:54pm

Figured this deserves a thread of its own.

One thing I would say is I don't think muslims would object to this issue so much if the western governments weren't so hypocritical. As I have mentioned before, France has one of the most draconian laws against Holocaust denial, and arrest people for saying bad things about jews (and no doubt other people). Of course I'm not saying going on a murder spree is therefore justified, but its a bit rich to expect muslims to be joining in the whole "Je Suis Charlie" thing, and standing up for people's right to mock Islam - while there remains draconian laws to keep other topics off limits.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by PZ547 on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 2:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:54pm:

Fair enough

French politicians -- sell out scum -- should be dropped in boiling tar along with politicians worldwide

Do the French majority need this crap? No. Nor do any of us

Time for citizens worldwide to drop tools, march on the slime purporting to represent majority voters and pull them away from the trough and put them to work breaking rocks in a very deep quarry

they'll have company when all the media scum are dumped down beside them

then we can all get on with our business

because the average person has bigger things on his/her mind than each others religions taking offence

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 3:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:54pm:

Nonsense.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 3:55pm

nonsense that the west is hypocritical? Or nonsense that muslims are bitter about this hypocricy?

Please elaborate S.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 3:55pm:

nonsense that the west is hypocritical? Or nonsense that muslims are bitter about this hypocricy?

Please elaborate S.

Here.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:54pm:

but

That's a very eloquent BUT. It's the 'but' of the "on the one hand, on the other hand". But there is no 'on the other hand' for shooting up a Paris newspaper in the name of Mohammed. There is no "on the other hand" for declaring a fatwah on a writer, for murdering a Dutch film-maker, to call death on Dutch parliamentarians. There is no "on the other hand" for shooting up Jewish delis and synagogues, parliament building, cafes, airports, blowing up buses, tube trains, trains, tall buildings with aeroplanes, beheading soldiers on leave in London, beheading aid workers in Syria, raping, murdering, rioting and generally carrying on like a bunch of emotionally incontinent f Vckn maniacs who can't bloody well be told what the limit is.

Soren wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:21pm:

At this time of heightened tension and emotion, it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring.’

Of course much though these fanatics may like to pretend otherwise there are no ‘two sides’ of the same coin going on here. The ‘expressionists’ and the ‘terrorists’ are not ‘as bad as each other’. The only two things which are in fact conjoined are the people who use guns and bombs to terrorise people for exercising their rights as free Europeans and the very large number of people from the ‘moderate majority’ who back up such violence (even while, like yesterday’s speakers, claiming to deplore it) with warnings that non-Muslims should be ‘careful’ when addressing their religion.

So please do not come with the cheeky BS that Islam stand for more freedom than those who oppose it.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:18pm

I think thats Soren saying that muslims peacefully protesting in defense of their prophet is equivalent to shooting up Synagogues and jews.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:18pm:

I think thats Soren saying that muslims peacefully protesting in defence of their prophet is equivalent to shooting up Synagogues and jews.

There are far too many violent Muslim protest which the 'moderates' like you are doing nothing about. Moderate Islam is the problem. The lunatics are lunatics, It's the sane Muslims who are the problem. Their views are indistinguishable from the views of the violent ones. They may be squeamish but doctrinally they are exactly like the violent ones: they are against freedom, they are for sharia, for the caliphate, against democratic laws-making, against equality of Muslims and non-Muslims, men and women, against freedom of speech, conscience, religion.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 6:04pm

Soren wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:31pm:

doctrinally they are exactly like the violent ones: they are against freedom, they are for sharia, for the caliphate, against democratic laws-making, against equality of Muslims and non-Muslims, men and women, against freedom of speech, conscience, religion.

This is just hammering your same point that all muslims are nothing less than relentless political activists. Wearing the hijab is not an expression of personal freedom, its political campaigning to bring down western civilization.

Underneath the rhetorical fluff, you are every bit as monotonous and unimaginative as Yadda.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Yadda on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 6:12pm

The information in the OP, is another example of the bizarre 'logic' which moslems adhere to and promote!

IMAGE.....

"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!"

.

IN EVERY INSTANCE, WHEN MOSLEMS COME INTO IN CONFLICT WITH OTHERS [i.e. in conflict with the 'oppressors'], the moslem argument is; .....that those who are the cause of the conflict, are always those who are not moslems --------- >

'AGGRESSION IS SOMETHING ONLY INFIDELS DO'

Quote:

"......[resorting] to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of "opening" the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur'an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, CREATING OBSTACLES FOR THE DA'WA, ARE BLAMED FOR THIS STATE OF WAR, for the da'wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it.

IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO RESIST ISLAM CAUSE WARS and are responsible for them.

.....Aggression is something only infidels do.

.....it is not seen as aggression or war when Muslims attack non-Muslims.

On the contrary, it is seen as aggression when non-Muslims resist the Islamization of their lands and thus "place obstacles in the way" of the spread of Islam.

They are defying the will of Allah.......subjugation to Islam alone can bring peace.....

......[To the ISLAMIST mind, 'aggression' is...] When non-Muslims do anything to preserve their culture and resist the Islamization of their country."

"ISLAM SEEKS PEACE - Oh really!"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1258072652/1#1

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 8:45pm

Quote:

One thing I would say is I don't think muslims would object to this issue so much if the western governments weren't so hypocritical. As I have mentioned before, France has one of the most draconian laws against Holocaust denial

It's the Joos fault. Again. The only thing that sends a Muslim into a violent rage faster than a Muhammed cartoon is a joo getting one over on him.

Quote:

Of course I'm not saying going on a murder spree is therefore justified

Thanks for clarifying Gandalf.

Quote:

This is just hammering your same point that all muslims are nothing less than relentless political activists.

Actually it looks to my like he is saying the exact opposite.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 6:29am

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 8:45pm:

It's the Joos fault. Again.

This is FD once again pulling the anti-semitic card because he can't think of anything relevant to say. What do you always call it? Oh yes - its 'wacist'.

Never mind that you yourself have acknowledged the hypocricy.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 1:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 6:29am:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 8:45pm:

It's the Joos fault. Again.

This is FD once again pulling the anti-semitic card because he can't think of anything relevant to say. What do you always call it? Oh yes - its 'wacist'.

Yes, but they started it. Muslims want to take away the Freeeeedom of decent white people everywhere.

If that's not wacist, what is?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 1:27pm

Is it the Jews' fault that I am pointing out your efforts to blame the slaughter of cartoonists on pro-Jewish discrimination?

Do you really think the guys who slaughtered the cartoonists were motivated to do this in any significant way by holocaust denial laws, rather than the cartoons mocking Muhammed?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 3:53pm

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 1:27pm:

Is it the Jews' fault that I am pointing out your efforts to blame the slaughter of cartoonists on pro-Jewish discrimination?

Of course FD - I always try to justify slaughtering cartoonists on 'da jooooos' - even when I never mention it. Thank heavens you are here to expose my unconscious beliefs with your psychic powers. Now remind me again, how did we get from talking about a peaceful protest to a maniac slaughtering cartoonists?

Quote:

Do you really think the guys who slaughtered the cartoonists were motivated to do this in any significant way by holocaust denial laws, rather than the cartoons mocking Muhammed?

Good point FD. And here's me thinking I was talking about peaceful protesters.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 8:10pm

Quote:

Now remind me again, how did we get from talking about a peaceful protest to a maniac slaughtering cartoonists?

The same way we got from London to France? As I recall, it was you who tried to blame it on the hypocrisy of the French laws. And it was you who tried to blame Muslims "objecting to this issue" on holocaust denial. Are the anti-free speech protests in London and Paris unrelated?

If it is hypocrisy they are whining about, why not come out in support of uniform freedom of speech rather than in opposition to freedom of speech? Unless of course it is freedom of speech itself that they really oppose. I seem to recall Muslims going on and on about the "special protection" offered to Jews under Islamic law.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 9:30pm

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 8:10pm:

As I recall, it was you who tried to blame it on the hypocrisy of the French laws.

The London protest was specifically about Charlie Hebdo - you know, the French magazine?

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 8:10pm:

f it is hypocrisy they are whining about, why not come out in support of uniform freedom of speech rather than in opposition to freedom of speech?

Maybe they don't support freedom of speech - I never said that they did. And indeed it would be consistent with my point if they don't. For them, freedom of speech is merely a cynical tool to target Islam in view of the double standards. Even Charlie Hebdo itself self-censors when it comes to anti-semitism. Thats why its important to stop the hypocricy - as a step towards getting muslims on board the freedom wagon.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 9:39pm

Quote:

For them, freedom of speech is merely a cynical tool to target Islam in view of the double standards.

And for you?

Quote:

Even Charlie Hebdo itself self-censors when it comes to anti-semitism. Thats why its important to stop the hypocricy - as a step towards getting muslims on board the freedom wagon.

It is important to stop the hypocrisy because Charlie Hebdo self censors?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 6:53am

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2015 at 9:39pm:

And for you?

I believe in freedom of speech for all. But I'm interested in your thoughts on this FD - you have previously acknowledged the hypocricy - do you think that when one religion remains off-limits to criticism, there can be problems with demanding that muslims must embrace the mocking of their religion?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 1:12pm

I think there are problems with Islam and freedom of speech, regardless of the special treatment given to Jews regarding the holocaust. Many of the Muslims involved probably agree with the holocaust denial laws, depending of course on whether they personally support holocaust denial. I believe even you were in that camp until recently. So I do not believe that the hypocrisy is a significant motivator in either the slaughtering of the cartoonists or the protests in London. They object, with the level of motivation they do respectively, because of people insulting their prophet. The hypocrisy on holocaust denial is far too subtle for them.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 3:22pm

You didn't address the point FD.

Regardless of how sinister you think muslims are, the question still stands. Purely as a point of principle - do you think demanding one religious group accept carte blanche ridicule of their religion can be problematic when another religious group is made a protected species?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 3:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 3:22pm:

FD refuses to answer such pointless questions, Muselman.

Besides, he is still expecting an answer on the barricade sandwich.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 3:36pm

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 1:12pm:

They object, with the level of motivation they do respectively, because of people insulting their prophet. The hypocrisy on holocaust denial is far too subtle for them.

No, I think it is you who is missing the subtleties of this issue. Being offended by the insulting of the Prophet per se is only a small part of it. As people who have researched the history of this issue have pointed out, muslims have been putting up with prophet-mocking for a long time - yet it is only in recent years they started to react violently over it. Clearly there is more to it than just being offended by prophet mocking on principle. There is a wide perception amongst muslims today that prophet mocking is part of a concerted campaign to attack and subjugate muslims by the west, under the guise of "Freedom of speech". To them its a multi-pronged campaign - invade and conquer muslim lands on the one hand, target muslims in the west under the guise of 'freedom of speech' on the other. Muslims have a victim complex - a point which I'm sure you're not going to dispute. And making certain religions off-limits, while demanding muslims embrace ridicule - just enhances this perception that islam is being specifically targeted.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 3:56pm

Now, come on. Are you saying FD specifically targets Muslims?

Proof, please.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 7:15pm

Quote:

diddums

Quote:

yet it is only in recent years they started to react violently over it

Unless of course you count all the times they went on a murderous rampage. Muhammed himself was not averse to killing his critics.

Quote:

Clearly there is more to it than just being offended by prophet mocking on principle.

Nope. That's about it Gandalf. These people really are that simple. People who slaughter cartoonists for drawing Muhammed cartoons are about as subtle as a brick. If you are suggesting they might "blame" us for not putting these cartoonists in jail and saving them the effort, then yes you would be correct, but still not have a meaningful point.

Quote:

There is a wide perception amongst muslims today that prophet mocking is part of a concerted campaign to attack and subjugate muslims by the west, under the guise of "Freedom of speech".

You have parroted this nonsense yourself. If they feel so strongly about it, of course they are going to build a narrative around it. That way they can milk the victimhood for all it is worth. The west is attacking and subjugating Islamic extremism, which you may be surprised to learn includes a fair few Muslims, including the ones who go on violent rampages in response to Muhammed cartoons.

To validate my position regarding the cartoons, consider for example the OIC trying to reintroduce blasphemy laws. These are boring Muslim bureaucrats in positions of power using dry political manouvering to achieve the same goal. The emotion varies. The method varies. The motivation and the goal are consistent. Islam is fundamentally opposed to freedom of speech.

Quote:

To them its a multi-pronged campaign - invade and conquer muslim lands on the one hand, target muslims in the west under the guise of 'freedom of speech' on the other. Muslims have a victim complex - a point which I'm sure you're not going to dispute. And making certain religions off-limits, while demanding muslims embrace ridicule - just enhances this perception that islam is being specifically targeted.

I don't think it makes much difference to them. It is hard to feel unsympathetic to the Jews. There are plenty still alive today who have no extended family because of the holocaust. It is absurd for them to build a victimhood complex around our response to the holocaust. It reflects desperation to justify their position rather than the actual motivation for it, which has not changed since Muhammed went on his first killing spree. Muslims (including yourself) will even try to build a victimhood narrative around Muhammed slaughtering 800 unarmed Jewish POWs in one day. The Caliphate was built on self defence. Blah blah blah. It is part of Islam, and always has been.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 8:31pm

Don’t you provide proof, FD. We expect the Muslim to do that.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 4:01pm

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Yes the actual perpetrators are as subtle as a brick - and thats the point. These "bricks" don't suddenly decide out of the blue to take the initiative and carry out God's punishment on doctrinal matters they doubtless have no clue over. Context matters. They carry out the work of their puppet masters, who cynically exploit any given contentious "muslim issue" for their own sinister purposes. One of the most famous examples was the taliban in Afghanistan getting their useful idiots to violently protest over the Quran burning episode. You didn't really think that those illiterate hicks who took part in the riot actually had any idea about what some obscure pastor in the US threatened to do did you? Likewise, the Charlie Hebdo perps were apparently given their task by Al Qaeda in Yemen. Again, its likely the actual shooters hadn't even heard about Charlie Hebdo before they were given their assignment.

But the point is, there is a context that exists beforehand, which the terrorist masterminds seek to cynically exploit. Its that context - or the atmosphere in society that creates tensions in society - that needs to be targeted. And in this case, part of the tension that created the toxic cartoon atmosphere is the hypocricy of western governments that gives the impression of isolating and targeting muslims under the guise of "free speech".

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 5:31pm:

Try another tack, Gandy, this one is silly.

Nobody wears a hijab who is not a sharia-promoting muslim (or is the female dependent of one). The hijab is a personal advert for sharia. Hijabs and niqabs and the stupid beards are about sharia, nothing else.
And sharia is a political system.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:50pm

Quote:

I don't think any of them are going to find cartoons mocking Muhammed too complicated. Even an idiot can google a fatwa. The cartoon itself would no doubt provide the necessary motivation. Responses to mockery of Muhammed are remarkably consistent, from Rushdie to the various cartoonists and that youtube video.

Quote:

Context matters. They carry out the work of their puppet masters, who cynically exploit any given contentious "muslim issue" for their own sinister purposes.

Who are the puppet masters of the OIC delegates trying to get the UN to introduce blasphemy laws? What is consistent here is that Muslims are actively opposed to freedom of speech.

Quote:

One of the most famous examples was the taliban in Afghanistan getting their useful idiots to violently protest over the Quran burning episode. You didn't really think that those illiterate hicks who took part in the riot actually had any idea about what some obscure pastor in the US threatened to do did you?

No, but seeing posters mocking Muhammed on the sidewalk in Paris (which now has a large Muslim population) is a slightly different matter.

Quote:

Likewise, the Charlie Hebdo perps were apparently given their task by Al Qaeda in Yemen. Again, its likely the actual shooters hadn't even heard about Charlie Hebdo before they were given their assignment.

There was a fair bit of history to the Charlie Hebdo thing. They had been attacked before. They already had full time police protection. They were hardly flying under the radar.

Quote:

But the point is, there is a context that exists beforehand, which the terrorist masterminds seek to cynically exploit. Its that context - or the atmosphere in society that creates tensions in society - that needs to be targeted.

OK now I get it. Society is to blame. How many different ways can you say this Gandalf?

Quote:

And in this case, part of the tension that created the toxic cartoon atmosphere is the hypocricy of western governments that gives the impression of isolating and targeting muslims under the guise of "free speech".

The governments were not publishing cartoons. The toxic atmosphere arose because of Muslims getting toxic over Muhammed cartoons, not because they were involved in free speech movements. Think about it. For Muslims to actually be bothered by holocaust denial laws, they would have to actually support freedom of speech (or be holocaust deniers - but for most Muslims, the holocaust is a point scoring bonanza).

People complaining about this tend to fall into two camps - those who oppose freedom of speech and want to ban the cartoons, and those who support freedom of speech and oppose holocaust denial laws. Both camps will use accusations of hypocrisy and various "et tu" style arguments because they can be very effective politically, but neither camp will actually be motivated by the hypocrisy. The free speech camp will be motivated by support for freedom of speech, the Muslims will be motivated by opposition to freedom of speech. For both camps, hypocrisy is a battle half won. It is the half lost that actually motivates.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:06am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

OK now I get it. Society is to blame.

Partly it is - yes.

You are not making any useful points here - you are basically just rehashing what everyone agrees with anyway - terrorists are bad and they should be stopped.

Unless you want to go down the sprint path of persecuting and banning islam from our society (which I don't think do), then you need to come up with solutions that don't involve alienation and dividing society. A collaborative approach along the lines of what FD 2007 used to advocate.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 8:24am

Quote:

You are not making any useful points here - you are basically just rehashing what everyone agrees with anyway - terrorists are bad and they should be stopped.

How? By blaming society?

Quote:

Unless you want to go down the sprint path of persecuting and banning islam from our society (which I don't think do),

And yet you label me an extremist. Why is that Gandalf? Were you desperate to get my attention?

Quote:

then you need to come up with solutions that don't involve alienation and dividing society

How about uniting in support of freedom of speech? Oops can't do that, because according to you it is ludicrous to expect Muslims to support freedom of speech. How should we appease them Gandalf?

Quote:

A collaborative approach along the lines of what FD 2007 used to advocate.

How is what I advocated in 2007 different from what I advocate now, other than acknowledging the genuine (but previously unrecognised by me) difficulty in getting Muslims to support freedom of speech?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Yadda on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:53am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:06am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

OK now I get it. Society is to blame.

Partly it is - yes.

You are not making any useful points here - you are basically just rehashing what everyone agrees with anyway -

terrorists are bad and they should be stopped.

Unless you want to

go down the sprint path of persecuting and banning islam from our society (which I don't think do),

then you need to come up with solutions that don't involve alienation and dividing society. A collaborative approach along the lines of what FD 2007 used to advocate.

gandalf,

Yes,

Our complacent ['she'll be right'] society is to blame.

For tolerating proponents of ~~evil~~ ISLAM among us.

'~~terrorists~~ moslems are bad and they should be stopped.'

YES, SO, WE SHOULD BAN ISLAM, IN AUSTRALIA.

!!!!

PROPOSITION;
Wherever in the world there are moslems, the presence of moslems is always directly the cause of conflict and violence with others.

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Moslems always cause conflicts and violence with others, through their own nature, ...of a culture of lying and deceit [towards others].

And when conflict and violence with others inevitably becomes 'hot', moslems promote a grievance mentality [primarily fostered within their own community], which then ['internally'] justifies 'lawful' ISLAMIC violence against the disbelievers.

i.e.
In the mind of the moslem;

"Only the moslems are the good and rightly guided people."
"Everyone else [i.e. everyone who rejects the authority of the local imam/ISLAM] is a person working in the cause of evil."
"It is the disbelievers which are the cause of the evil circumstances and the suffering of innocent moslems."
"So moslems are virtuous whenever they oppose [i.e. fight against] disbelievers...."

....and so moslems are virtuous, whenever moslems choose to use violence, to spread the influence and the authority of ISLAM [and in doing so, they fight against the 'oppression' and 'persecution' of 'innocent moslems' !!].

"....those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil" - Koran

So a local moslem community ['internally'] is always able to portray the members of their own community as 'the good [innocent] persons', in any 'conflict equation'.

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1426238178/10#10

Quote:

PROPOSITION;
ISLAM itself, directly causes 'radicalisation' [in individuals], in that it can be demonstrated that ISLAM [within the body of its religious texts] inculcates and causes a grievance mentality [in individuals] and an encouragement to religious violence all in individuals who become enthralled by its [ISLAM's] arguments.

But note well;
During the Radio National discussion, there is never an exploration of the possibility, that it could be the influence of ISLAM, which may be a factor in causing 'radicalisation' [in individuals].
i.e. by ISLAM instilling a greivence mentality [in individuals] and an encouragement to religious violence [in individuals].

THE PROPOSITION WHICH MAINSTREAM ISLAMIC DOCTRINE 'BROADCASTS';
Moslems are innocent.
Those who reject ISLAM are guilty persons, are evil persons, and, they deserve to be put to death.
Whenever fighting on behalf of ISLAM's/Allah's cause, moslems are engaged in virtuous acts [of violence].

.

IN EVERY INSTANCE, WHEN MOSLEMS COME INTO IN CONFLICT WITH OTHERS [i.e. in conflict with the 'oppressors'], the moslem argument is; .....that those who are the cause of the conflict, are always those who are not moslems --------- >

'AGGRESSION IS SOMETHING ONLY INFIDELS DO'

Quote:

"ISLAM SEEKS PEACE - Oh really!"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1258072652/1#1

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Yadda on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:08am

In the mind of the moslem;

"Only the moslems are the good and rightly guided people."

"Everyone else [i.e. everyone who rejects the authority of the local imam/ISLAM] is a person working in the cause of evil."

"It is the disbelievers which are the cause of the evil circumstances and the suffering of innocent moslems."

"So moslems are virtuous whenever they oppose [i.e. fight against] disbelievers...."

In the mind of the moslem;

"....those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil" - Koran

In the mind of the moslem;

Peace summarises everything in Islam

.....and it is the condition of NOT BEING A MOSLEM, which is the primary cause of all human conflict in the world --------- >

Quote:

"Peace summarises everything in Islam, because it means

submitting your will to God,

so you acquire peace through it," he said.

"When I'm following its [i.e. ISLAM's] teachings,

I know that my own actions are in line with what my creator wants,

and hence I am at peace with myself, [with] my community and the rest of the world."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-19/darwins-muslim-community-tackles-discrimination-at-meeting/6025586?section=nt

EXAMPLE - of moslems promoting ~~ISLAM~~ 'peace' in Australia.....

------------- >

IMAGE....

"Mr Yunus has been encouraging peaceful community bridging since starting his post as Darwin's Islamic leader in 2014."

Mr Yunus is a moslem.

Mr Yunus is a follower of ISLAM.

.

IMO, ISLAM 'creates' a mental pathology [a 'sickness'] in the psyche of those human beings who choose to embrace it.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1425861095/32#32
Yadda said....

Quote:

All moslems, imo, have a damaged [destroyed!!!] psyche.

And [predominantly] it isn't the freedoms and laws of Australian society, nor, the influence of 'discriminatory' Australian's, who are responsible for damaging the psyche of moslems [i.e. FOR 'RADICALISING' MOSLEMS].

It is ISLAM, which is doing that!

.

Yadda said....

Quote:

ISLAMIC LAW teaches - EVERY MOSLEM - that murdering those who are not moslems [i.e. those who reject ISLAM], is a lawful act.

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:09am

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 8:24am:

And yet you label me an extremist. Why is that Gandalf? Were you desperate to get my attention?

Goodness FD, you seem very touchy about this. I explained it to you in the other thread - you are an extremist because of your prejudicial views about muslims which completely clouds your better judgment on just about every other topic. Things like saying the misuse of state funds by a muslim school definitely means funding terrorists. Or Labelling the misreporting about a 'good news' muslim story by western (non-muslim) media as muslims "doing what they do" to cover up the threat Islam poses to civilization. You are also an extremist, if you really want to know, with your constant "hey look over there" apologism for blatant lies perpetuated in a vicious campaign to smear islam.

And as discussed previously, you are also an extremist in your views about freedom - for example you disagreeing with mainstream public opinion that having legal measures in place to protect against discrimination and prejudice against minorities is important.

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 8:24am:

How about uniting in support of freedom of speech?

Great idea FD! Lets start with calling out George Brandis for pleading that "people have a right to be bigots" on the one hand, while proudly proclaiming that holocaust denial should remain unlawful as a form of racial discrimination on the other. What do you think?

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 8:24am:

ccording to you it is ludicrous to expect Muslims to support freedom of speech.

Really? Where did I say that FD?

Quite the opposite in fact. Again, do you think there are problems with demanding muslims embrace the ridicule of their religion while another religion remains a protected species?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:35am

FD is an extremist only in relation to the Muselman. In all other areas, FD is intelligent, well-read and considered. He doesn't jump to conclusions, he listens, and he makes excellent arguments.

When it comes to the Muselman, however, well. If you just read FD's posts on his one obsession, you'd think he was a certifiable nutter.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:55am

precisely.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:46pm

Quote:

Except that I did not actually say either of those things Gandalf. When you add in words or change them, you change the meaning, and it is no longer something I actually said.

Quote:

You are also an extremist, if you really want to know, with your constant "hey look over there" apologism for blatant lies perpetuated in a vicious campaign to smear islam.

Are you accusing me of deflecting? Like in the other thread where you kept bringing up past "lies" from Soren that he had already conceded (repeatedly, due to your constant deflecting) were wrong, while you avoided your own lies that you posted in that thread?

Quote:

And as discussed previously, you are also an extremist in your views about freedom - for example you disagreeing with mainstream public opinion that having legal measures in place to protect against discrimination and prejudice against minorities is important.

That's a pretty low bar for extremism Gandalf. By that measure more than half of our politicians are extremists.

Quote:

I think it is hollow rhetoric from Muslims unless they are also prepared to defend people's right to mock Muhammed. Muslims must start with their own opposition to freedom of speech, particularly when their fellow co-religionists are achieving censorship extra-judiciously.

Quote:

Really? Where did I say that FD?

You made this claim plenty of times, and tried to insist that it is the same as Muslims actually wanting Muhamemd to be mocked. You did not seem to comprehend that a person might support someone's right to say something while at the same time disagreeing with it. This is pretty much the basis of freedom of speech, but it is an alien concept to you and other Muslims.

Quote:

Quite the opposite in fact. Again, do you think there are problems with demanding muslims embrace the ridicule of their religion while another religion remains a protected species?

No. I think there are problems when Muslims look for excuses not to embrace freedom, as if every other freedom must exist before they can stop killing people. Judaism is not beyond mockery and cops it far worse than Islam.

Quote:

When it comes to the Muselman, however, well. If you just read FD's posts on his one obsession, you'd think he was a certifiable nutter.

In other words, Karnal agrees with me on other topics, but not this one, though he steadfastly avoids meaningful participation in any of the discussions.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 2:42pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:46pm:

Except that I did not actually say either of those things Gandalf.

Oh still confused are we? Here I'll remind you again:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405760005/13

Thread title: "muslm 'donations' go to terrorists"

FD's first response: "So do government funds given to Muslim-run private schools in Australia."

And just so we're still not confused - thats you saying *VERY* clearly that government funds given to muslim-run private schools go to terrorists. There is literally nothing else you could be referring to. You confirm the claim again and again in your subsequent posts in that thread.

I guess its up for debate whether lying about these claims after making them constitutes extremism - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:46pm:

You just made an appeal for "uniting in support of freedom of speech" - now you are saying its actually not important. If the rest of society are not prepared to support free speech, why on earth would you expect the muslims to?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 4:46pm

FD, have you participated in any discussions that aren’t about the Muselman? I haven’t read one for over a year.

You wrote an excellent book review about human evolution a while back. That was masterful.

I must have missed your non-Musel posts of late.

I look forward to more.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:18pm

Quote:

Oh still confused are we?

You are confused Gandalf. What you quote, and what you attribute to me, are two different things. That is why it is such a convoluted effort on your part to "quote" me saying what you insist I said.

Quote:

You just made an appeal for "uniting in support of freedom of speech" - now you are saying its actually not important.

It is important. Muslims uniting in support of freedom of speech, except for the right to mock Muhammed, is pretty meaningless.

Quote:

If the rest of society are not prepared to support free speech, why on earth would you expect the muslims to?

Everyone places caveats on freedom of speech Gandalf. Muslims such as yourself try to turn it into an absurdly simplistic black or white issue so that they can always find an excuse for their complete rejection of freedom of speech by deflecting the way you do.

Quote:

FD, have you participated in any discussions that aren’t about the Muselman? I haven’t read one for over a year.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence Karnal. Have you tried looking?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:34pm

No, FD, I just follow my nose.

I look forward to reading your sane posts. Thanks for pointing out their existence.

If that’s what you did.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:55am:

precisely.

So Muslims are not hot for the caliphate, sharia and all other crazy Islamic shite any more?
When did the Pauline turn to reason happen? Not on the road to Damascus through ISIL lines, shurely?!/!

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 8:05am

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:18pm:

Everyone places caveats on freedom of speech Gandalf.

Like not wanting prophet mocking allowed?

Holocaust denial and arresting people for saying bad things about jews is not a "caveat" - its straight out rejection of free speech. You have done a pretty good job of being a spineless apologist for jewish exceptionalism - which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing - I agree with you that jews are a special case. But your hypocricy is blinding - you have previously argued vigorously that the best way to protect vulnerable minorities from prejudice and discrimination is to have *MORE* free speech, not less. Those were your very words FD. You give anyone who proposes this for the muslims the full treatment - but when it comes to jews, the "more free speech" antidote suddenly doesn't apply.

Are you now saying that if discrimination and prejudice is really really bad - maybe free speech is not such a great solution?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Messenger of God on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 12:01pm

I thinks its funny they get all upset with cartoons over a prophet that never even existed.

A cursory look at history shows the mohammed prophet myth was invented 60 years after his pretend so called birth by a caliph. Such nonsense by such backward thick people should in no way be accepted by normal society. Only people with mentally deficient condition would kill others over a cartoon about someone that never even existed.

They don't even have the mental capacity to actually research why they believe what they believe. Sit down and shut up is all they understand and if you leave we will kill you, and the over whelming response from the horde is "Yes sir may I please have another".

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 3:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 8:05am:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:18pm:

Everyone places caveats on freedom of speech Gandalf.

Like not wanting prophet mocking allowed?

Holocaust denial and arresting people for saying bad things about jews is not a "caveat" - its straight out rejection of free speech.

"Prophet Mocking"?? ;D ;D

Anyway, 'prophet mocking' and denying that the Jews were systematically exterminated is hardly the same sort of thing.

"Prophet mocking" is mocking an attitude. Nobody dies, nobody bleeds, nobody is locked up.

Exterminating Jews - they were actually killed, actually bled, were actually locked up.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:06pm

Quote:

Like not wanting prophet mocking allowed?

No Gandalf. Not like that. Most people place caveats on freedom and human rights in order to balance competing rights and freedoms. There is a sound justification for them.

Muslims place caveats on freedom of speech out of a principled rejection of freedom of speech.

Quote:

Holocaust denial and arresting people for saying bad things about jews is not a "caveat" - its straight out rejection of free speech. You have done a pretty good job of being a spineless apologist for jewish exceptionalism - which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing - I agree with you that jews are a special case. But your hypocricy is blinding - you have previously argued vigorously that the best way to protect vulnerable minorities from prejudice and discrimination is to have *MORE* free speech, not less. Those were your very words FD. You give anyone who proposes this for the muslims the full treatment - but when it comes to jews, the "more free speech" antidote suddenly doesn't apply.

Nice rant Gandalf, but I still hold to those principles. I oppose holocaust denial laws. I just do not accept it as genuine when Muslims insist that they are for free speech so long as other issues be dealt with first.

Do you remember how we got into this - by you, a Muslim, suggesting that holocaust denial laws should be dealt with "first". Attacks on freedom of speech by Muslims will always be bottom of the list for those who pretend Islam is compatible with freedom of speech. There will always be some excuse. As far as I can tell I only recently convinced you that holocaust denial laws were a bad thing, and already it is at the top of your list.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 6:09pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:46pm:

A Sunni Muslim like Gandy will not concede a mistake to a stinking infidel like you or me - not by him, not by another Sunni Muslim. It's not kosher (or whatever they call it in Islam).

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Sprintcyclist on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 12:01pm:

they are cultists.

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Messenger of God on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:45pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 12:01pm:

they are cultists.

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

Yes very poor choice of words there by me. Personally in the murderous cultists context I find them degenerate , pure evil bile, sickfeckers that need to be exterminated like a plague from the earth.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 1:02pm

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

This muslim advocates caveats on freedom of speech when there is good reason to believe it threatens other's human rights. As I have argued time and time again. An example I have used in the past is someone calling for people to be beheaded for insulting the prophet - should be banned as it is a very clear threat to someone who is exercising their rights. You disagreed.

I'm also curious as to how you concluded that I was previously supportive of holocaust denial laws, but was turned around on the subject by you. I believe I've always been opposed to holocaust denial laws.

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Do you remember how we got into this - by you, a Muslim, suggesting that holocaust denial laws should be dealt with "first". Attacks on freedom of speech by Muslims will always be bottom of the list

No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Addressing the first directly addresses the second.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 3:08pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 12:01pm:

they are cultists.

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

Humour them.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Messenger of God on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 3:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 1:02pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Do you remember how we got into this - by you, a Muslim, suggesting that holocaust denial laws should be dealt with "first". Attacks on freedom of speech by Muslims will always be bottom of the list

No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Addressing the first directly addresses the second.

Well to be honest you keep saying you are muslim but your posts fly in the face continually of what the Quran actually says a muslim is and begs the question if your just not a lefty apologist which you seem to be more to the point.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 5:25pm

being honest? You Matty? ;)

But humour me please, what does the Quran say about being a muslim that so contradicts my posting behaviour?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Messenger of God on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 5:25pm:

being honest? You Matty? ;)

But humour me please, what does the Quran say about being a muslim that so contradicts my posting behaviour?

Hi Matty, there is no need for me to do anything. I have nothing to prove. Anyone can see what the quran says about your stance on violence and homosexuality just to name a few and know that you make up your own religion to fly in the face of islam according to the quran. You need to package it up with a bow for the west yes ;D .

You make it up as you go to suit yourself or your argument at the time.

That's why FD has so much fun with you.

It may do you some justice to be consistent rather than trying to make out you are some authority on the subject and not a strung out lefty apologist which is how you come across and probably are.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 4:33pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

I wonder if they find you funny? I do! ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Manboobs Habibi on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 12:14am

|dev|null wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 4:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

I wonder if they find you funny? I do! ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

I doubt you would find anything funny with your morbid muslim obsession that you have just for attention. I bet you were a rusky in the 70's when the cold war was on ;D .

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 1:06pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 12:14am:

|dev|null wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 4:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

I wonder if they find you funny? I do! ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

I doubt you would find anything funny with your morbid muslim obsession that you have just for attention. I bet you were a rusky in the 70's when the cold war was on ;D .

I'm not as ancient as yourself Matty. I am neither Russian nor Muslim. Stop trying to emulate your betters little man. Adopt the Way of the Troll! Become like the Sensei and gather people to your way! ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Manboobs Habibi on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 9:11pm

(Pops dummy back in the baby Breaths mouth)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 2:13pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 9:11pm:

(Pops dummy back in the baby Breaths mouth)

Only to find said dummy in your eye, when it's spat out again! :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Manboobs Habibi on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 7:20pm

|dev|null wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 2:13pm:

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 9:11pm:

(Pops dummy back in the baby Breaths mouth)

Only to find said dummy in your eye, when it's spat out again! :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

It just landed in the toilet again where you play.

*Pops the dummy back in your mouth*

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Manboobs Habibi on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 7:23pm

|dev|null wrote on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 1:06pm:

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 25^th, 2015 at 12:14am:

|dev|null wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 4:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

I don't find intolerant murderous cultists funny

I wonder if they find you funny? I do! ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

I doubt you would find anything funny with your morbid muslim obsession that you have just for attention. I bet you were a rusky in the 70's when the cold war was on ;D .

No need old man I am a Grand Master at pwning you. No need for any training. A child could do it.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Mar 30^th, 2015 at 12:21pm

Really? You've got to be joking, right? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

You couldn't be trusted to own a Hamster mate! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by SweetLambo on Mar 30^th, 2015 at 8:09pm

Yet half the time I don't even have to pwn you all I do is sit and watch you pwn yourself.

As you were.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:30am

Quote:

It is Muslims doing the beheading Gandalf. This is an own goal if ever I saw one.

Do you think we should ban all the Islamic texts that are a threat to others' human rights?

Quote:

No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Addressing the first directly addresses the second.

So getting rid of holocaust denial laws (and every other excuse you might come up with for not addressing Islamic terrorism directly) will stop Muslims executing cartoonists? All we have to do is find more creative ways to appease them? When they say stop mocking Muhammed or we will kill you, we must merely figure out what they really want - which is of course freedom of speech for all (and payback to the Jews for getting too much sympathy after the holocaust)?

Quote:

Anyone can see what the quran says about your stance on violence and homosexuality

Gandalf has already explained that one. He merely reinterpret's Muhammed's command to kill gays (both the giver and the taker) to mean we really should not kill them.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 11:20am

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:30am:

It is Muslims doing the beheading Gandalf. This is an own goal if ever I saw one.

Yet you apparently don't see any problem in allowing people to incite this kind of behaviour. Strange.

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:30am:

So getting rid of holocaust denial laws (and every other excuse you might come up with for not addressing Islamic terrorism directly) will stop Muslims executing cartoonists?

The terrorists have a constituency that feeds on perceived victimhood. When we know that at least some of this victimhood is borne from our own hypocricy regarding free speech (hypocricy that not even you deny), then it doesn't seem wise to dismiss it.

It doesn't have to be about absolving responsibility as your stale meme insists. Rest easy - the terrorists are still to blame.

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:30am:

Gandalf has already explained that one. He merely reinterpret's Muhammed's command to kill gays (both the giver and the taker) to mean we really should not kill them.

We've moved on from gandalf insisting its a "statement of gay pride" - so thats progress.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by SweetLambo on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 5:03pm

Its not women under burqa's at gandalfs place.
Ever thought why the mussey men want them so much. ;)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:05pm

Quote:

I am not simply dismissing it. I am pointing out the absurdity of it. Holocaust denial laws are the excuse, not the motivation. It does not make sense for a Muslim who is prepared to commit mass murder in order to silence those who mock Muhammed to also be genuinely motivated by a desire to achieve freedom of speech by ending the holocaust denial laws. If he builds a narrative of the west attacking Islam, that narrative will be built on the west attacking Islam directly, for example with cartoons mocking Islam's idiocy. It will not be built on far subtler hypocrisy. The west would still be attacking Islam in the same way without those holocaust denial laws.

I have explained this before, which you ignored:

People complaining about this tend to fall into two camps - those who oppose freedom of speech and want to ban the cartoons, and those who support freedom of speech and oppose holocaust denial laws. Both camps will use accusations of hypocrisy and various "et tu" style arguments because they can be very effective politically, but neither camp will actually be motivated by the hypocrisy. The free speech camp will be motivated by support for freedom of speech, the Muslims will be motivated by opposition to freedom of speech. For both camps, hypocrisy is a battle half won. It is the half lost that actually motivates.

Quote:

It doesn't have to be about absolving responsibility as your stale meme insists.

It does not have to be, but it is.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:07pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:30am:

Quote:

[quote]No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Addressing the first directly addresses the second.

So getting rid of holocaust denial laws (and every other excuse you might come up with for not addressing Islamic terrorism directly) will stop Muslims executing cartoonists?

Did Gandy really say that - addressing holocaust denial first directly addresses Islamic terrorism?

I can't find the post. Did he realise how shameful it is and deleted it?

Elsewhere in Compatibleistan:

Another blogger hacked to death in Bangladesh
By Agencies
Published Monday, March 30, 2015
A blogger was hacked to death in the Bangladesh capital on Monday, in the latest brutal attack on the country's independent writers, a senior officer said.

Police have arrested two men over the murder which comes just weeks after an American aethist blogger was also hacked to death in Dhaka, a crime that triggered international outrage, the officer said.

"He was brutally hacked to death this morning with big knives just 500 yards (460 metres) from his home at Dhaka's Begunbari area," local police chief Wahidul Islam told AFP.

Islam said the men were arrested immediately after the attack trying to flee the scene.
http://www.emirates247.com/news/another-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh-2015-03-30-1.585876

Islamic literary criticism.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:00pm

Soren wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Elsewhere in Compatibleistan:

Another blogger hacked to death in Bangladesh
By Agencies
Published Monday, March 30, 2015
A blogger was hacked to death in the Bangladesh capital on Monday, in the latest brutal attack on the country's independent writers, a senior officer said.

Police have arrested two men over the murder which comes just weeks after an American aethist blogger was also hacked to death in Dhaka, a crime that triggered international outrage, the officer said.

"He was brutally hacked to death this morning with big knives just 500 yards (460 metres) from his home at Dhaka's Begunbari area," local police chief Wahidul Islam told AFP.

Islam said the men were arrested immediately after the attack trying to flee the scene.
http://www.emirates247.com/news/another-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh-2015-03-30-1.585876

Islamic literary criticism.

*SIGH* I knew your efforts at tolerance were too good to be true, Soren. ::)

The fact that two of the murderers have been arrested and that the Muslim authorities are seeking the others is IMHO good news about the Islamic government valuing Freedom of Speech in Bangladesh.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by SweetLambo on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Is that the best apology you can make for them.
Times are tough.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:10pm

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:42pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:07pm:

When was the last time a Muslim was hacked to death in the West for talking about Islam?

You are an outrageously spineless, squishy bedwetter for offering 'arrest' as a sign of normalcy and 'nuffin' to see here about Islam'.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by SweetLambo on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:47pm

bedwetter ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 9:18pm

Soren wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:07pm:

"I love how you immediately resort to ad hominem, Soren". ::)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by SweetLambo on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 9:36pm

Ah the old ad hommus accusation.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:32am

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:05pm:

Continually missing the point.

No one is making excuses for the terrorists, yet I know that you will keep that stale strawman going to dodge the real issue. Its about claiming the moral authority to be a warrior for free speech when defending attacks against one religious group, while at the same time insisting that another religious group remain off limits. When this happens your moral authority disappears. Thats obviously doesn't mean you can no longer say killing cartoonists is wrong - but you are no longer able to make it a crusade about free speech with any credibility. And if you do, then don't be surprised when people view this grandstanding with the highest degree of cynicism - and start to object to it (as the original story in this thread is about).

Make it an issue of killing people = wrong, don't make it an issue of freedom when it makes you such a hypocrite. Thats the take home message if you are really interested in getting the muslim community on board.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:32am:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2015 at 6:05pm:

FD feels, I suspect that anything that does not outright and continually condemn the Terrorists is making excuses and apologising for them, G. Typical FD viewpoint! ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 9:58pm

Quote:

No one is making excuses for the terrorists

You are saying that if we got rid of the holocaust denial laws, they would stop it. If that were true, we would be pretty stupid for not doing so. But the reality is that Muslims slaughter cartoonists who mock Muhammed because they draw cartoons mocking Muhammed, not because they build a victimhood complex around holocaust denial laws. If you suggest we must address the holocaust denial laws first, you might as well be excusing terrorism, because you are attempting to facilitate it.

Quote:

while at the same time insisting that another religious group remain off limits

Where have I insisted that Gandalf?

Quote:

When this happens your moral authority disappears.

Fine. Let me know when it happens.

Quote:

Thats obviously doesn't mean you can no longer say killing cartoonists is wrong - but you are no longer able to make it a crusade about free speech with any credibility. And if you do, then don't be surprised when people view this grandstanding with the highest degree of cynicism - and start to object to it (as the original story in this thread is about).

And on and on you go. Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good story eh Gandalf?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 7:09am

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 9:58pm:

You are saying that if we got rid of the holocaust denial laws they would stop it.

Wrong. No wonder you can't comprehend the point.

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 9:58pm:

Where have I insisted that Gandalf?

You didn't. Believe it or not this is not about you. Get back to me when you can actually understand what is being debated here.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 8:40am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 1:02pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Do you remember how we got into this - by you, a Muslim, suggesting that holocaust denial laws should be dealt with "first". Attacks on freedom of speech by Muslims will always be bottom of the list

No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Addressing the first directly addresses the second.

Is this you insisting that getting rid of the holocaust denial laws will directly address Islamic terrorism?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:06am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

OK now I get it. Society is to blame.

Partly it is - yes.

Is this you not trying to shift the blame?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 9:08am

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 8:40am:

Is this you insisting that getting rid of the holocaust denial laws will directly address Islamic terrorism?

Have you worked out what the thread is about yet FD?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 10:02am

Muslims attacking freedom of speech?

Again.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 10:43am

I guess not.

The thread is about muslims peacefully protesting against Charlie Hebdo.

At some point you turned it into a thread about terrorists killing cartoonists - and you've been running with that ever since.

I guess it hasn't dawned on you yet.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 4:56pm

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 10:02am:

Muslims attacking freedom of speech?

Again.

Muslims taking away the Freeeedom of decent white people everywhere.

Typical.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:41am

Quote:

The thread is about muslims peacefully protesting against Charlie Hebdo.

...shortly after many of the cartoonists were murdered by Muslims. Do you think this is in even poorer taste than turning up to the Jewish solidarity protest after Jews were murdered by Muslims and trying to turn it into an Islamophobia protest?

Haven't you been trying to make the thread about blaming holocaust denial laws for Muslims attacking freedom of speech? Does it in any way affect my criticism of your argument if they are murdering cartoonists or trying to imprison them? Either way, they are motivated by their opposition to freedom of speech, and whining about holocaust denial laws is the excuse, not the motivation. Do you see any of the protestors saying they would give up and go home if they were allowed to freely deny the holocaust? Or is this more of a useful idiot/western armchair psychiatrist type argument?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 11:10am

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:41am:

I'm pretty sure it all hinges on whether or not they were standing in a line - what do you think?

Besides, the jewish solidarity protest was a story that was entirely based on lies - remember? Still, I'm sure we can modify that slightly into 'the story was based on lies - except the bits that incriminated muslims'. That should do it.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 11:26am

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:41am:

Haven't you been trying to make the thread about blaming holocaust denial laws for Muslims attacking freedom of speech? Does it in any way affect my criticism of your argument if they are murdering cartoonists or trying to imprison them?

Criticising prophet mocking is not the same as calling on those who criticise to be imprisoned - or even calling for freedoms to be banned.

from the OP:

Quote:

Perpetual mistakes by extremists, either by cold-blooded killers or uncivilised expressionists, cannot be the way forward for a civilised society.

The peace-loving majority of people must become vociferous in promoting global civility and responsible debate. At this time of heightened tension and emotion, it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring.’

Whats interesting about this story is that despite the Daily Fail's best efforts to insinuate otherwise, these protestors seemed to go out of their way to avoid any calls for any freedoms to be curtailed.

I wouldn't accuse these people of being anti-freedom just as I wouldn't accuse the reclaim Australia mob of the same - despite both sides expressing a disaproval of a particular kind of freedom.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:06pm

Would this be a reasonable way of paraphrasing their demands?

Islam's "more opinionated" critics must self censor until Muslims stop committing acts of terrorism in an effort to silence them. Freedom of speech is incompatible with civilisation.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:23pm

it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring

What do you think that means Gandalf? Stop mocking my prophet or my crazy brother who I have no control over will chop your head off? Or does he mean Muslims must stop murdering people to prevent further publication of Muhammed cartoons?

Still, I accept there was no direct call (at least not quoted in the OP) calling for legal restrictions on freedom of speech, and I thank you for highlighting the progressive Muslim approach to making Islam's critics shut the bugger up. In all these calls for solidarity, press freedom, and freedom of speech in the aftermath of terrorist attacks across Europe, it is too easy to forget the importance of appeasing terrorists.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:00pm

Why would he speak out against terrorism when he can achieve the same thing by complaining about holocaust denial laws?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:32pm

He bangs on about holocaust denial SO he doesn't have to stand up to the all-pervasive, agenda setting Muslim 'tiny minority'.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 9:08pm

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring

What do you think that means Gandalf?

Something incredibly sinister and threatening - thats for sure.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 9:31pm

How about stop mocking my prophet or my crazy brother who I have no control over will chop your head off? Do you think restraint might have something to do with self censorship in this context?

And yes, I do consider this sort of thing to be sinister.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Publicly, Brain, not anonymously.

Gawd you are thick.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:34pm

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Publicly, Brain, not anonymously.

Gawd you are thick.

Soren, I hate to tell you that this web board is public... ::)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:54pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:34pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Publicly, Brain, not anonymously.

Gawd you are thick.

Soren, I hate to tell you that this web board is public... ::)

So his name is really Gandalf??

Gawd you are thick, thick and stupid.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:58pm

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:34pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Publicly, Brain, not anonymously.

Gawd you are thick.

Soren, I hate to tell you that this web board is public... ::)

So his name is really Gandalf??

Gawd you are thick, thick and stupid.

Your name is really Soren then? ::)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 1:47pm

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:

Calling on muslims to show restraint is a threat to behead. Gotcha

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 2:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:34pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Publicly, Brain, not anonymously.

Gawd you are thick.

Soren, I hate to tell you that this web board is public... ::)

So his name is really Gandalf??

Gawd you are thick, thick and stupid.

Your name is really Soren then? ::)

The "n" is silent.

It's a Danish thing.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 4:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 1:47pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:

Calling on muslims to show restraint is a threat to behead. Gotcha

Calling on decent white people to show restraint is cowardice of the highest order.

Spineless Apologetics 101, innit.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 5:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 1:47pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:

Calling on muslims to show restraint is a threat to behead. Gotcha

Is that what it means Gandalf?

it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 5:51pm

Its your story mate - don't ask me.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 5:58pm

Were you not disagreeing with me, mate?

I think it clearly means that both sides show restraint - Muslims by not committing terrorist attacks targeted at symbols of free speech, and the rest of us by not exercising our freedom of speech in the manner of Charlie Hebdo.

Sounds entirely reasonable don't you think? These are the good Muslims, after all.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 6:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 5:58pm:

I think it clearly means that both sides show restraint - Muslims by not committing terrorist attacks

You just finished explaining it is a call for terrorism.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 6:30pm

Read it again Gandalf.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 9^th, 2015 at 8:03pm

Either way you contradicted yourself

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 9:05am

Are you saying FD shouldn’t contradict himself?

There’s your proof, FD. We have Muslims on this very board trying to take away the freeeedoms of decent white people.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 5:20pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 9:05am:

Are you saying FD shouldn’t contradict himself?

There’s your proof, FD. We have Muslims on this very board trying to take away the freeeedoms of decent white people.

Have they broken any windows yet? :)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 5:29pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 5:20pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 9:05am:

Are you saying FD shouldn’t contradict himself?

There’s your proof, FD. We have Muslims on this very board trying to take away the freeeedoms of decent white people.

Have they broken any windows yet? :)

Worse. They keep saying FD shouldn’t make stuff up.

Sinister, no?

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 5:46pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 5:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 5:20pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 9:05am:

Are you saying FD shouldn’t contradict himself?

There’s your proof, FD. We have Muslims on this very board trying to take away the freeeedoms of decent white people.

Have they broken any windows yet? :)

Worse. They keep saying FD shouldn’t make stuff up.

Sinister, no?

Definitely. I believe several people have the appropriate response for them, in that case. ::)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:19pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:34pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

sure - as soon as you can show me where anyone demanded anyone "self censor".

Why don't YOU censor the Muslim crazies?

What would happen to you if you spoke out publicly against Islamic terrorism?

What do you think he's doing here, in all his posts, Soren? :D ::)

Publicly, Brain, not anonymously.

Gawd you are thick.

Soren, I hate to tell you that this web board is public... ::)

So his name is really Gandalf??

Gawd you are thick, thick and stupid.

Your name is really Soren then? ::)

Actually it is.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:32pm

wow - so you must get called 'sore-end' in real life right? ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Brian Ross on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:32pm:

wow - so you must get called 'sore-end' in real life right? ;D

Now, Gandalf, that isn't very nice. Soren is entitled to use his real name, as I do, if he so wishes. ::)

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:57pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:32pm:

wow - so you must get called 'sore-end' in real life right? ;D

Well, beats being a Bint all your life. Or Jihad. Or Mohammed or Ahmed.

https://translate.google.com.au/#auto/en/S%C3%B8renson

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 11:40am

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Your name is really Soren then? ::)

Actually it is.

You poor, poor, bugger. I feel real pity for you Soren. I really do. Not. ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 5:12pm

ok thats enough

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Soren on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 9:10pm

|dev|null wrote on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Your name is really Soren then? ::)

Actually it is.

You poor, poor, bugger. I feel real pity for you Soren. I really do. Not. ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

What is your name, loser?

Ahkkmed? Mohammed? Kevin?

I think it's Jaydan or J -dan or some such. Jaymz? Must be something really stupid for you to think that Hot Breath (fap, fap, fappity-fap) is an improvement on it.

I blame your parents (as do you).

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 11:49pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 5:12pm:

ok thats enough

Essen sie eine stollen?

Miam miam.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by gandalf on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 11:46am

Nein

(as in "no" - not "nine")

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Karnal on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 4:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Nein

(as in "no" - not "nine")

You've had enough, eh?

Sehr gut.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by stryder on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 5:39pm

Soren wrote on Mar 16^th, 2015 at 1:21pm:

And these kinds of people dont protests against a great slice of islam who appear to have radical destructive hatred of the non muslim world such as the western world, christians in the middle east and parts of africa are getting slaughtered, complete gender suppression, barbaric deaths against homosexuals by ISIS, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

Title: Re: British muslims protest Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Post by Hot Breath on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 11:45am

Soren wrote on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 9:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Apr 13^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Your name is really Soren then? ::)

Actually it is.

You poor, poor, bugger. I feel real pity for you Soren. I really do. Not. ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

You know Soren, its alway amazed me how you react with such blatant ad hominem attacks on those that you disagree with. I can visualise you as this balding, bearded old bloke in the front bar of the local, who, when ever you hear the words "Muslim" or "Islam" or "Lefties" or "Labor" spitting your rage and your teeth all over the place, bright red with anger and then settling down when someone buys you another beer to shut you up! ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D