They vote.....and if the Government decides....they get a gun to shoot and be shot at.  They are adults.  They are their own person.

So, after having a gap year, working, and sustaining themself at every level, they take up the mantra......'earn or learn,' and go to Uni. to get that tertiary education The Arab insists is the key to ensure they are not an ongoing burden to taxpayers.

What, Mr Abbott, do you expect them to live on while they are learning?

Yes Tony maybe you should give them a few freebies now because Labor will be making sure they'll be paying double marginal tax rates for the rest of their working lives to pay the interest on Labor's Mount Everest of debt.... :D

http://www.thecomingdepression.net/wp-content/uploads/debt.mountain.jpg

I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?'

It is certainly part of the issue.

I think we need to change our whole concept of education.

I would rather hire someone on what they can do, not what they did 20 years ago.

If only we would value ongoing learning more people could work earn and learn

miketrees wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

It is certainly part of the issue. I think we need to change our whole concept of education. I would rather hire someone on what they can do, not what they did 20 years ago. If only we would value ongoing learning more people could work earn and learn

You raise very relevant issues there.  But....what I want to know is what Abbott expects these voting adults less than 22 years old (who can be forced into wars) to live on when they choose to 'learn' and not 'earn.'

Aussie wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:52pm:

I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.

so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you?

John Smith wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:24pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised. so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you?

Gawd....now, your being miffed spills over into Politicians Suck.  Really?

Aussie wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 8:24pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised. so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you? Gawd....now, your being miffed spills over into Politicians Suck.  Really?

why? are you only a hypocrite when you are on relationships?

This is a very relevant issue for anyone under 22 who seeks to learn.  It seems there is absolutely nothing in the way of Government assistance for them to do exactly what Abbott has urged ~ 'learn.'

What are they supposed to live on?

We need to structure courses that can be done with less time limits while people do sh1t jobs to support themselves, no better incentive to gain qualifications.

The old way the nurses were trained was probably the best system of the lot, work and study on the job.
But they abandoned that in favour of uni.
The old nurses were brilliant.

Aussie wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

miketrees wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 8:00pm: It is certainly part of the issue. I think we need to change our whole concept of education. I would rather hire someone on what they can do, not what they did 20 years ago. If only we would value ongoing learning more people could work earn and learn You raise very relevant issues there.  But....what I want to know is what Abbott expects these voting adults less than 22 years old (who can be forced into wars) to live on when they choose to 'learn' and not 'earn.'

You do know that Australia doesn't actually have conscription, or 'national service', and hasn't had it since 1972..

Aussie wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:15pm:

They vote.....and if the Government decides....they get a gun to shoot and be shot at.  They are adults.  They are their own person.

When did that become a standard practice? I thought serving your country was optional which very few Australians bothered to do.
So few in fact not really worth mention in this context

Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base.

But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that.

John Smith wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:24pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised. so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/4c14b83f-6f18-45a6-bbc8-caeae9e66c36.jpg

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 6:43am:

Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that.

And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House??

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:29am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 6:43am: Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that. And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House??

The Senate won't even pass legislation to get people off their bum and get jobs.....NS has absolute 'Buckley's"

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:29am: St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 6:43am: Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that. And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House?? The Senate won't even pass legislation to get people off their bum and get jobs.....NS has absolute 'Buckley's"

Supporters of the right are making noise to have the senate voting changed so they can get what they want ?

The Last Howard government had control of both houses and could have implemented what ever policy they wanted ?

You are right today - tomorrow could be very different, especially if the conservative supporters get what they want in terms of a conservatively compliant senate.

I somehow think that their views would change in opposition where they would ones again want to hold bad policy to account.

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:29am: St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 6:43am: Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that. And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House?? The Senate won't even pass legislation to get people off their bum and get jobs.....NS has absolute 'Buckley's"

There is no legislation to do that ?

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:18am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 8:24pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised. so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you? http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/4c14b83f-6f18-45a6-bbc8-caeae9e66c36.jpg

thought police? not at all, Aussie only deletes those he disagrees with

John Smith wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:07am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:18am: John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 8:24pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised. so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you? http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/4c14b83f-6f18-45a6-bbc8-caeae9e66c36.jpg thought police? not at all, Aussie only deletes those he disagrees with

I somehow can not see Swag having a problem with the thought police though the off topic police would be a different story.

miketrees wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

It is certainly part of the issue. I think we need to change our whole concept of education. I would rather hire someone on what they can do, not what they did 20 years ago. If only we would value ongoing learning more people could work earn and learn

Good post.

As it stands in most cases experience on the job is of far greater value than pieces of paper that only fulfil a legal requirement. My firms owner learnt everything from his licensee and people in the industry and learnt nothing practical for the job going all the way up to bachelor level.

When swapping careers my Diploma etc only fulfilled the legal requirement to practice, everything of value was learnt from the boss man who had learnt from others in the industry.

We place far too much value on pieces of paper because our elders told us it was the way to success.....a whole generation waking up to find the truth only after the fact. :-/

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:29am: St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 6:43am: Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that. And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House?? The Senate won't even pass legislation to get people off their bum and get jobs.....NS has absolute 'Buckley's"

Just how stupid ARE you?

How many times do you need to be shown that THE JOBS AREN'T THERE before the fact finally sinks in?

Dnarever wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:11am:

I somehow can not see Swag having a problem with the thought police though the off topic police would be a different story.

now that all depends on who's off topic

Kat wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 11:11am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:52am: gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:29am: St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 6:43am: Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that. And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House?? The Senate won't even pass legislation to get people off their bum and get jobs.....NS has absolute 'Buckley's" Just how stupid ARE you? How many times do you need to be shown that THE JOBS AREN'T THERE before the fact finally sinks in?

Senate won't even pass legislation to create jobs...

Dnarever wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:11am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 10:07am: Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:18am: John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 8:24pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised. so delete it ... you're the big man with the delete button aren't you? http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/4c14b83f-6f18-45a6-bbc8-caeae9e66c36.jpg thought police? not at all, Aussie only deletes those he disagrees with I somehow can not see Swag having a problem with the thought police though the off topic police would be a different story.

Sometimes (like now) it's totally necessary to go off topic to explain a comment in a post or correct errors by other (mostly Lefty) posters.... :D

Dnarever wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:11am:

the off topic police would be a different story

Besides if you are referring to my Debt Mountain post (Reply#1) it has extreme relevancy to the "dilemma of 18/19 year olds" which after all is the actual thread title.  :-?

18/19 year olds will indeed have to pay double marginal tax rates to sustain our current level of Welfare State-ness as there will be twice as many tax dependents to tax-payers in 20 years. (Swan's IGR 2010 says this)

So to Aussie I would say "what did you do to sustain yourself when you were 18/19"?

When I was 18 there was no such thing as a 'gap year'.

Ironically after a knock back from the ADFA I went to uni and survived on TEAS (Tertiary Education Assistance) as my mum was a widow.  TEAS then, was even less than the dole.  Around $36 FN I recall.  It was crap, so I left UNI, thumbed my nose at the commie student unionists, got a job, stopped loafing, and started paying tax.

That's my advice to 18/19 year olds..... :D

Kat wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 11:11am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:52am: gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 9:29am: St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 6:43am: Yoy don’t think Abbott with his constant talk of death cults, of sending Australian troops here there and everywhere is thinking of introducing National Service? Be a way of shoring up his hard right base. But Aussie is just pointing out NS could be introduced and our 18/19 year olds would find themselves shooting and being shot at. Are adult enough for that. And do you think that NS legislation would pass either House?? The Senate won't even pass legislation to get people off their bum and get jobs.....NS has absolute 'Buckley's" Just how stupid ARE you? How many times do you need to be shown that THE JOBS AREN'T THERE before the fact finally sinks in?

If you seriously want a job there are jobs out there to get.  If they aren't local, then move.  If your not qualified, get qualified.  If your not experienced do some free work experience (if the union will let you)

Don't sit on your arse and whinge at politicians or me for your own shortfalls, and then expect the tax-payer to bale you out permanently.

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:40pm:

If you seriously want a job there are jobs out there to get.

no, there are not .. there are currently about 15 000 jobs at any one time, and about 800 000 unemployed. No matter how you twist it, the numbers don't work.

By the way, most of those 150 000 jobs will end up being filled by people already employed ...

John Smith wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:47pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 12:40pm: If you seriously want a job there are jobs out there to get. no, there are not .. there are currently about 15 000 jobs at any one time, and about 800 000 unemployed. No matter how you twist it, the numbers don't work. By the way, most of those 150 000 jobs will end up being filled by people already employed ...

Does that take into account the majority of jobs that aren't advertised? (Something like 70% according to job service provider stats)

Though I think we need an abundance of unskilled work the current job numbers aren't good enough, we can at least be accurate?

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 12:33pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 10:11am: the off topic police would be a different story Besides if you are referring to my Debt Mountain post (Reply#1) it has extreme relevancy to the "dilemma of 18/19 year olds" which after all is the actual thread title.  :-? 18/19 year olds will indeed have to pay double marginal tax rates to sustain our current level of Welfare State-ness as there will be twice as many tax dependents to tax-payers in 20 years. (Swan's IGR 2010 says this) So to Aussie I would say "what did you do to sustain yourself when you were 18/19"? When I was 18 there was no such thing as a 'gap year'. Ironically after a knock back from the ADFA I went to uni and survived on TEAS (Tertiary Education Assistance) as my mum was a widow.  TEAS then, was even less than the dole.  Around $36 FN I recall.  It was crap, so I left UNI, thumbed my nose at the commie student unionists, got a job, stopped loafing, and started paying tax. That's my advice to 18/19 year olds..... :D

Whatever it was, that TEAS is ($36 FN...or whatever) is $36 FN ...or whatever more than today's lot get.

If you are a University student, it is virtually impossible to obtain employment which fits around lectures, so inevitably kids like my eldest grand-daughter (whose parents have no capacity) are supported by me and 'Grandma.'

Earn or learn, ey!

As for what I did ......  I was supported 100% by my parents while at University, and then later by employment as an Articled Clerk earning the princely sum of $9.00 per week.

Aussie wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

If you are a University student, it is virtually impossible to obtain employment which fits around lectures

Mainly due to rigid minimum hours and penalty rates jealously guarded by unions and Labor.


Vuk11 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 1:08pm:

Does that take into account the majority of jobs that aren't advertised? (Something like 70% according to job service provider stats)

...yeah I've seen that as well.  Most job vacancies aren't advertised.

One has to be PRO-active instead of 'NO'-active... :D

Lefties have 5 million excuses for why they shouldn't get a job and not a single one why they should. Pessimists and nihilists.

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 1:08pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 12:47pm: Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 12:40pm: If you seriously want a job there are jobs out there to get. no, there are not .. there are currently about 15 000 jobs at any one time, and about 800 000 unemployed. No matter how you twist it, the numbers don't work. By the way, most of those 150 000 jobs will end up being filled by people already employed ... Does that take into account the majority of jobs that aren't advertised? (Something like 70% according to job service provider stats) Though I think we need an abundance of unskilled work the current job numbers aren't good enough, we can at least be accurate?

the numbers for jobs available aren't obtained by looking at advertising, they're obtained by surveys  (the number read was 5000 businesses from around the country) and then the numbers are extrapolated across the whole country

SURVEY METHODOLOGY AND DESIGN

7 The JVS uses a sample survey methodology and collects information via online forms and/or telephone interviews. Approximately 5,000 employers, selected from the ABS Business Register (ABSBR), are included in the survey.

8 The statistical unit for the survey comprises all the activities of an employer in a particular state or territory based on the Australian Business Number (ABN) unit or Type of Activity Unit (TAU). Each statistical unit is classified to an industry which reflects the predominant activity of the business. The statistical units are stratified by state, industry division and employment size, and within each stratum, statistical units are selected with equal probability.

9 The sample for JVS, like most ABS business surveys, is selected from the ABSBR which is primarily based on registrations to the Australian Taxation Office's (ATO) Pay-As-You-Go Withholding (PAYGW) scheme. The population is updated quarterly to take account of new businesses, businesses that have ceased employing, changes in industry and employment levels and other general business changes.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/6354.0Explanatory%20Notes1Nov%202014?OpenDocument

So let me get this straight: the number of job seekers outnumber the jobs available and this is cause to stop looking for work?! Lefty logic.  :D

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:10pm:

So let me get this straight: the number of job seekers outnumber the jobs available and this is cause to stop looking for work?! Lefty logic.  :D

No, no....it's very altruistic, actually.
See, if the lefties don't go after jobs, then that leaves more vacancies available for other job-seekers. So your average lefty is sacrificing him/her self on the altar of newstart, for others...

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 10:10pm:

So let me get this straight: the number of job seekers outnumber the jobs available and this is cause to stop looking for work?! Lefty logic.  :D

who says they stop looking?

is this how you teach your students? you make it up as you go? no wonder today's kids have no idea.....

Aussie wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 12:33pm: Dnarever wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 10:11am: the off topic police would be a different story Besides if you are referring to my Debt Mountain post (Reply#1) it has extreme relevancy to the "dilemma of 18/19 year olds" which after all is the actual thread title.  :-? 18/19 year olds will indeed have to pay double marginal tax rates to sustain our current level of Welfare State-ness as there will be twice as many tax dependents to tax-payers in 20 years. (Swan's IGR 2010 says this) So to Aussie I would say "what did you do to sustain yourself when you were 18/19"? When I was 18 there was no such thing as a 'gap year'. Ironically after a knock back from the ADFA I went to uni and survived on TEAS (Tertiary Education Assistance) as my mum was a widow.  TEAS then, was even less than the dole.  Around $36 FN I recall.  It was crap, so I left UNI, thumbed my nose at the commie student unionists, got a job, stopped loafing, and started paying tax. That's my advice to 18/19 year olds..... :D Whatever it was, that TEAS is ($36 FN...or whatever) is $36 FN ...or whatever more than today's lot get. If you are a University student, it is virtually impossible to obtain employment which fits around lectures, so inevitably kids like my eldest grand-daughter (whose parents have no capacity) are supported by me and 'Grandma.' Earn or learn, ey! As for what I did ......  I was supported 100% by my parents while at University, and then later by employment as an Articled Clerk earning the princely sum of $9.00 per week.

And that's your real whinge...

Aussie wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:52pm:

I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?'

Austudy and/or wages.

Where's the mystery?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

Lefties have 5 million excuses for why they shouldn't get a job and not a single one why they should. Pessimists and nihilists.

I'll put you down for a dozen jobs for the homeless young men then?  That'll be a good start on the problem....

... wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 9:54am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery?

The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years.

What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments?

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 1:52pm:

... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments?

*groooooaaaan*

"youth allowance" then.  It's the same bleedin' thing.

Why act like this is some new challenge?  Guess how I lived while studying 15 years ago, and presumably most other people did 15 years before that?  Thaaaat's right folks - Austudy youth allowance and/or wages. 

... wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 2:07pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 1:52pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments? *groooooaaaan* "youth allowance" then.  It's the same bleedin' thing. Why act like this is some new challenge?  Guess how I lived while studying 15 years ago, and presumably most other people did 15 years before that?  Thaaaat's right folks - Austudy youth allowance and/or wages.

Things have changed.  These are the hoops one must jump through to get this 'youth allowance.'

Link.

Why?  My Grand-daughter 'supported' herself (with top up from me and Grandma) for 12 months before enrolling this year for Uni full time.  She graduated well from High School at the end of 2013.  She has been in our 'care' for the last two years of her secondary education for various reasons, mainly because her parents are separated, and their lives moved on and away from her years ago.

Every obstacle Morrison's Mob can put in her way is being put in her way.

It ought be as simple as 'earn or learn' but it is not.  Far from it.

Yeah I had to fill out some forms too.  It was a pain in the arse, but then, it only took an hour or 2 and granted me 4 or 5 hundred bucks a fortnight for a few years, so I didn't really have cause for complaint. 

... wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 2:21pm:

Yeah I had to fill out some forms too.  It was a pain in the arse, but then, it only took an hour or 2 and granted me 4 or 5 hundred bucks a fortnight for a few years, so I didn't really have cause for complaint.

Youth Allowance != Austudy. My son gets $270@fn, half of what you got a few years ago and yes he's at uni studying full-time.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 7:40pm: Lefties have 5 million excuses for why they shouldn't get a job and not a single one why they should. Pessimists and nihilists. I'll put you down for a dozen jobs for the homeless young men then?  That'll be a good start on the problem....

I am not looking for work. And I wouldn't be on here whinging about it if I was.

How about we tax "progressives" at a higher rate to pay for extra public service jobs?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 3:37pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 10:39am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20th, 2015 at 7:40pm: Lefties have 5 million excuses for why they shouldn't get a job and not a single one why they should. Pessimists and nihilists. I'll put you down for a dozen jobs for the homeless young men then?  That'll be a good start on the problem.... I am not looking for work. And I wouldn't be on here whinging about it if I was. How about we tax "progressives" at a higher rate to pay for extra public service jobs?

so you're homeless are you?

No wonder these threads confuse you :D :D :D

Smithyboy, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund more public service jobs for the homeless? I am sure a real estate worker who screws over people by charging extortionist rents and sales can spare a few dollars a week. Or, how about you let some homeless sleep on your couch for a few weeks/months until they can find work?

Setanta wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 3:17pm:

... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 2:21pm: Yeah I had to fill out some forms too.  It was a pain in the arse, but then, it only took an hour or 2 and granted me 4 or 5 hundred bucks a fortnight for a few years, so I didn't really have cause for complaint.  Youth Allowance != Austudy. My son gets $270@fn, half of what you got a few years ago and yes he's at uni studying full-time.

Payment rates are the same, his circumstances are obviously different to mine. 


Quote:

Payment rates for Austudy single      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20

Quote:

Payment rates for Youth Allowance single, with no children, 18 years or more, and required to live away from parental home      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20

Aussie wrote on Mar 19^th, 2015 at 6:15pm:

They vote.....and if the Government decides....they get a gun to shoot and be shot at.  They are adults.  They are their own person. So, after having a gap year, working, and sustaining themself at every level, they take up the mantra......'earn or learn,' and go to Uni. to get that tertiary education The Arab insists is the key to ensure they are not an ongoing burden to taxpayers. What, Mr Abbott, do you expect them to live on while they are learning?

the same thing I did and every generation before me. WORK part-time. STAY AT HOME. go without. live pov.

we all did it and so did you.  How does that suddenly change now?

Quote:

his circumstances are obviously different to mine.

That's the bit which gives me the sh1ts.  If you are 18.....old enough to vote.....old enough to be treated like every other adult under the Law (Rule of Law)....old enough to be vulnerable to having a gun bunged in  your hand and told.."Go shoot, or be shot," why is it not, as Abbott claims, 'earn or learn?'

My Grand-daughter is in  the same bind as many thousands of others who are doing the 'learning,' but are made jump through endless red tape hoops to get Government assistance to do so.

Or.....is it my personal obligation to pay for her to learn no matter what my resources are.

She is an adult.

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 1:52pm:

... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments?

If ever we needed proof you are not a lawyer and never studied at uni then this post is it.  university contact hours are specifically designed AROUND PART-TIME JOBs since virtually every student works part-time.  It is part of the process.

I put three kids thru 4 degrees. They ALL WORKED PART-TIME.  it isn't that hard.  so after 3 years working in Coles for a pittance they graduate and get $80K jobs.

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Quote: his circumstances are obviously different to mine. That's the bit which gives me the sh1ts.  If you are 18.....old enough to vote.....old enough to be treated like every other adult under the Law (Rule of Law)....old enough to be vulnerable to having a gun bunged in  your hand and told.."Go shoot, or be shot," why is it not, as Abbott claims, 'earn or learn?' My Grand-daughter is in  the same bind as many thousands of others who are doing the 'learning,' but are made jump through endless red tape hoops to get Government assistance to do so. Or.....is it my personal obligation to pay for her to learn no matter what my resources are. She is an adult.

yes it is.  the rest of us did it with NOTHING.  we worked.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:34pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:15pm: They vote.....and if the Government decides....they get a gun to shoot and be shot at.  They are adults.  They are their own person. So, after having a gap year, working, and sustaining themself at every level, they take up the mantra......'earn or learn,' and go to Uni. to get that tertiary education The Arab insists is the key to ensure they are not an ongoing burden to taxpayers. What, Mr Abbott, do you expect them to live on while they are learning? the same thing I did and every generation before me. WORK part-time. STAY AT HOME. go without. live pov. we all did it and so did you.  How does that suddenly change now?

Why ought an adult be obliged to continue 'staying at home,' when the Government says.....'you earn or learn.' 

I do not know of any employer (outside a brothel) who would employ my Grand-Daughter for the few hours she may have while not at Uni or doing 'Uni homework.'

'Earn or learn.'  Rubbish.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:41pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 1:52pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments? If ever we needed proof you are not a lawyer and never studied at uni then this post is it.  university contact hours are specifically designed AROUND PART-TIME JOBs since virtually every student works part-time.  It is part of the process. I put three kids thru 4 degrees. They ALL WORKED PART-TIME.  it isn't that hard.  so after 3 years working in Coles for a pittance they graduate and get $80K jobs.

Oh ~ spare me the melodrama!  I'm happy to pay the way for my kids.....and I did.  All four of them.  But.....do I have to do it for all my Grand-Kids as well?

'Earn or learn.'

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:45pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:34pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:15pm: They vote.....and if the Government decides....they get a gun to shoot and be shot at.  They are adults.  They are their own person. So, after having a gap year, working, and sustaining themself at every level, they take up the mantra......'earn or learn,' and go to Uni. to get that tertiary education The Arab insists is the key to ensure they are not an ongoing burden to taxpayers. What, Mr Abbott, do you expect them to live on while they are learning? the same thing I did and every generation before me. WORK part-time. STAY AT HOME. go without. live pov. we all did it and so did you.  How does that suddenly change now? Why ought an adult be obliged to continue 'staying at home,' when the Government says.....'you earn or learn.'  I do not know of any employer (outside a brothel) who would employ my Grand-Daughter for the few hours she may have while not at Uni or doing 'Uni homework.' 'Earn or learn.'  Rubbish.

Maccas. Hungry Jacks, Coles, Woolies, a thousand other similar stores.

you don't know much about part-time employment, do you?

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:41pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 1:52pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments? If ever we needed proof you are not a lawyer and never studied at uni then this post is it.  university contact hours are specifically designed AROUND PART-TIME JOBs since virtually every student works part-time.  It is part of the process. I put three kids thru 4 degrees. They ALL WORKED PART-TIME.  it isn't that hard.  so after 3 years working in Coles for a pittance they graduate and get $80K jobs. Oh ~ spare me the melodrama!  I'm happy to pay the way for my kids.....and I did.  All four of them.  But.....do I have to do it for all my Grand-Kids as well? 'Earn or learn.'

then where are her parents then?  Why aren't THEY supporting her and why isn't she working part-time like virtually every other uni student?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:26pm:

Smithyboy, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund more public service jobs for the homeless?

sure .... I've always said I'd be happy to pay more tax. What about you, when will you start paying tax?


Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 4:26pm:

I am sure a real estate worker who screws over people by charging extortionist rents and sales can spare a few dollars a week. Or, how about you let some homeless sleep on your couch for a few weeks/months until they can find work?

What about those greedy lecturers janitors who charge a fortune just so that some poor kid can improve their education? How about you teach them clean for free so they improve their chances and don't need to sleep on my couch?

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 6:14pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:48pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:41pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 1:52pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments? If ever we needed proof you are not a lawyer and never studied at uni then this post is it.  university contact hours are specifically designed AROUND PART-TIME JOBs since virtually every student works part-time.  It is part of the process. I put three kids thru 4 degrees. They ALL WORKED PART-TIME.  it isn't that hard.  so after 3 years working in Coles for a pittance they graduate and get $80K jobs. Oh ~ spare me the melodrama!  I'm happy to pay the way for my kids.....and I did.  All four of them.  But.....do I have to do it for all my Grand-Kids as well? 'Earn or learn.' then where are her parents then?  Why aren't THEY supporting her and why isn't she working part-time like virtually every other uni student?

If only it was as simple as that.  If it was, do you reckon I would have bothered with this Thread?

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 6:14pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:48pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:41pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 1:52pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments? If ever we needed proof you are not a lawyer and never studied at uni then this post is it.  university contact hours are specifically designed AROUND PART-TIME JOBs since virtually every student works part-time.  It is part of the process. I put three kids thru 4 degrees. They ALL WORKED PART-TIME.  it isn't that hard.  so after 3 years working in Coles for a pittance they graduate and get $80K jobs. Oh ~ spare me the melodrama!  I'm happy to pay the way for my kids.....and I did.  All four of them.  But.....do I have to do it for all my Grand-Kids as well? 'Earn or learn.' then where are her parents then?  Why aren't THEY supporting her and why isn't she working part-time like virtually every other uni student? If only it was as simple as that.  If it was, do you reckon I would have bothered with this Thread?

for the retards everything is black and white, you either working or a bludger ... no middle ground

(go on Aussie, delete this comment to  :-* :-*)

... wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 3:17pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 2:21pm: Yeah I had to fill out some forms too.  It was a pain in the arse, but then, it only took an hour or 2 and granted me 4 or 5 hundred bucks a fortnight for a few years, so I didn't really have cause for complaint.  Youth Allowance != Austudy. My son gets $270@fn, half of what you got a few years ago and yes he's at uni studying full-time. Payment rates are the same, his circumstances are obviously different to mine.  Quote: Payment rates for Austudy single      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20 [quote] Payment rates for Youth Allowance single, with no children, 18 years or more, and required to live away from parental home      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20

[/quote]

Yes, you see the difference then. He must move more than something like 50km away from home to get the payment rate you are talking about, not just move out. He must move to a different town as the UNI is 5 minutes from here. Because he lives at home he gets half as much. Now we have to clothe, feed him, pay for car repairs etc. He's an adult, he's 19. I lost my job on the 25th of Dec last year after 18 years, so now I am on the dole but I still have to support him and I can't claim him as a dependent. We rent and my dole does not come anywhere near paying that, the excess is payed from my redundancy but that only lasts till June.

So were you living at home? It wasn't that long ago that if you studied at uni, you got full Austudy no matter where you lived and that was more than likely the case when you went to uni.

He could move to a friends place in Casino but then the travel would eat the extra he was paid. The alternative is that we, his parents move 50k away.

edit: Put up the rates of YA for living with your parents please.

edit2: Doesn't matter your link has it: single, with no children, 18 years or more, and living at parental  home      $281.00

Funny thing is, if we were his grand parents he would be paid the full amount as long as his parents moved away or beat the shyte out of him so he could not live with us. If he had his GF move in with us and they were a couple he could get 426.80 as there is no "living with parents" clause for that one, now there's a thought.

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: Smithyboy, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund more public service jobs for the homeless? sure .... I've always said I'd be happy to pay more tax. What about you, when will you start paying tax? Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: I am sure a real estate worker who screws over people by charging extortionist rents and sales can spare a few dollars a week. Or, how about you let some homeless sleep on your couch for a few weeks/months until they can find work? What about those greedy lecturers janitors who charge a fortune just so that some poor kid can improve their education? How about you teach them clean for free so they improve their chances and don't need to sleep on my couch?

Why? Since when have I claimed to be an egalitarian?

You keep trying to use the same approach toward me as I have been using toward you. But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing. 

... wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 3:17pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 2:21pm: Yeah I had to fill out some forms too.  It was a pain in the arse, but then, it only took an hour or 2 and granted me 4 or 5 hundred bucks a fortnight for a few years, so I didn't really have cause for complaint.  Youth Allowance != Austudy. My son gets $270@fn, half of what you got a few years ago and yes he's at uni studying full-time. Payment rates are the same, his circumstances are obviously different to mine.  Quote: Payment rates for Austudy single      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20 [quote] Payment rates for Youth Allowance single, with no children, 18 years or more, and required to live away from parental home      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20

[/quote]

Austudy has risen over $100 a fortnight since I received it.

It was $150 a week then rose to $160 a week.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 10:43pm:

... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:29pm: Setanta wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 3:17pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 2:21pm: Yeah I had to fill out some forms too.  It was a pain in the arse, but then, it only took an hour or 2 and granted me 4 or 5 hundred bucks a fortnight for a few years, so I didn't really have cause for complaint.  Youth Allowance != Austudy. My son gets $270@fn, half of what you got a few years ago and yes he's at uni studying full-time. Payment rates are the same, his circumstances are obviously different to mine.  Quote: Payment rates for Austudy single      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20 [quote] Payment rates for Youth Allowance single, with no children, 18 years or more, and required to live away from parental home      $426.80 single, with children      $559.20

Austudy has risen over $100 a fortnight since I received it.

It was $150 a week then rose to $160 a week.
[/quote]

It seems your math is as good a longy's. Glad you're not the math professor.

Payment rate today per fortnight: $426.80

Payment rate yesteryear per fortnight: $300-320

Now, I admit, I am not a mathematical genius, but there appears to be a gap of over $100 dollars between today's and yesteryear's payments.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 11:20pm:

Payment rate today per fortnight: $426.80 Payment rate yesteryear per fortnight: $300-320 Now, I admit, I am not a mathematical genius, but there appears to be a gap of over $100 dollars between today's and yesteryear's payments.

May I suggest you reread what you wrote? It may not be what you meant but...

Look.
Quote:

Austudy has risen over $100 a fortnight since I received it. It was $150 a week then rose to $160 a week.

So it's risen by 100 a fortnight? It was 150 and rose to 160 a week. That's 10 dollars a week or 20 a fortnight in my reading not 100.

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 7:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 6:14pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:48pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 5:41pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 1:52pm: ... wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 9:54am: Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:52pm: I'm pretty certain that fails to address the point raised.  What does Abbott expect these 18/19 year old adults to live on while they do what The Arab urges.....'earn or learn?' Austudy and/or wages. Where's the mystery? The mystery is why you are ignorant of the fact that one of the qualifications you must have to get Austudy is that you be aged 25 years. What employment is available to a full-time student, even assuming they have freetime to earn and not study/research or attend to assignments? If ever we needed proof you are not a lawyer and never studied at uni then this post is it.  university contact hours are specifically designed AROUND PART-TIME JOBs since virtually every student works part-time.  It is part of the process. I put three kids thru 4 degrees. They ALL WORKED PART-TIME.  it isn't that hard.  so after 3 years working in Coles for a pittance they graduate and get $80K jobs. Oh ~ spare me the melodrama!  I'm happy to pay the way for my kids.....and I did.  All four of them.  But.....do I have to do it for all my Grand-Kids as well? 'Earn or learn.' then where are her parents then?  Why aren't THEY supporting her and why isn't she working part-time like virtually every other uni student? If only it was as simple as that.  If it was, do you reckon I would have bothered with this Thread?

then why are your domestic problems Abbott's fault?  The girl can work part-time just as everyone else does. That hasn't changed. Or ask Palmer for help since he is so interested in the needs of others?

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Quote: his circumstances are obviously different to mine. That's the bit which gives me the sh1ts.  If you are 18.....old enough to vote.....old enough to be treated like every other adult under the Law (Rule of Law)....old enough to be vulnerable to having a gun bunged in  your hand and told.."Go shoot, or be shot," why is it not, as Abbott claims, 'earn or learn?' My Grand-daughter is in  the same bind as many thousands of others who are doing the 'learning,' but are made jump through endless red tape hoops to get Government assistance to do so. Or.....is it my personal obligation to pay for her to learn no matter what my resources are. She is an adult.

Family usually looks after each other, but if you don't want to, you could always remind her that ultimately it's her life and therefore, her responsibility. 

It's really hard to see what your problem is - is it that you don't think individual circumstances should be considered?  The full rate would be a pretty sweet earner for someone living in their parents home with no rent, utilities or food bills.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 10:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 6:33pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: Smithyboy, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund more public service jobs for the homeless? sure .... I've always said I'd be happy to pay more tax. What about you, when will you start paying tax? Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: I am sure a real estate worker who screws over people by charging extortionist rents and sales can spare a few dollars a week. Or, how about you let some homeless sleep on your couch for a few weeks/months until they can find work? What about those greedy lecturers janitors who charge a fortune just so that some poor kid can improve their education? How about you teach them clean for free so they improve their chances and don't need to sleep on my couch? Why? Since when have I claimed to be an egalitarian? You keep trying to use the same approach toward me as I have been using toward you. But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing.

When did I claim to be egalitarian?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 10:41pm:

But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing.

that you'd rather deal with your misguided stereotypes rather than reality? Sure, I understand ... I just don't agree with it.

Just because I care about the plight of asylum seekers or the unemployed, that doesn't mean I have to live a life of poverty and dedicate my whole life to the 'cause'.  We are quite capable of doing both ... you should try it sometime, it's good for your soul.

Setanta wrote on Mar 21^st, 2015 at 11:33pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 11:20pm: Payment rate today per fortnight: $426.80 Payment rate yesteryear per fortnight: $300-320 Now, I admit, I am not a mathematical genius, but there appears to be a gap of over $100 dollars between today's and yesteryear's payments. May I suggest you reread what you wrote? It may not be what you meant but... Look. Quote: Austudy has risen over $100 a fortnight since I received it. It was $150 a week then rose to $160 a week. So it's risen by 100 a fortnight? It was 150 and rose to 160 a week. That's 10 dollars a week or 20 a fortnight in my reading not 100.

My understanding is that it was $150 when he got onto it, but rose to $160 while he was still on it.

But that it has increased by $100 a week SINCE he was on it.

John Smith wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 11:52am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 10:41pm: But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing.  that you'd rather deal with your misguided stereotypes rather than reality? Sure, I understand ... I just don't agree with it. Just because I care about the plight of asylum seekers or the unemployed, that doesn't mean I have to live a life of poverty and dedicate my whole life to the 'cause'.  We are quite capable of doing both ... you should try it sometime, it's good for your soul.

I remember that post you put up about how you don't rent out to asylum seekers. Your heart bleeds for them but bugger if you are going to give them shelter.

Happy Lucky wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 11:59am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 22nd, 2015 at 11:52am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 10:41pm: But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing.  that you'd rather deal with your misguided stereotypes rather than reality? Sure, I understand ... I just don't agree with it. Just because I care about the plight of asylum seekers or the unemployed, that doesn't mean I have to live a life of poverty and dedicate my whole life to the 'cause'.  We are quite capable of doing both ... you should try it sometime, it's good for your soul. I remember that post you put up about how you don't rent out to asylum seekers. Your heart bleeds for them but bugger if you are going to give them shelter.

What has my views on asylum seekers got to do with my job?  ... I owe a legal duty to my clients to ensure that anybody I place into their property is able to meet the rent repayments. I imagine that asylum seekers don't meet that requirement.

Keep in mind that I haven't had any apply so I reserve the right to change my position once I've viewed and assessed an application.

WHat about you? your a liberal fanboy, why don't you charge your kids rent?

John Smith wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 11:47am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 10:41pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 6:33pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: Smithyboy, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund more public service jobs for the homeless? sure .... I've always said I'd be happy to pay more tax. What about you, when will you start paying tax? Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: I am sure a real estate worker who screws over people by charging extortionist rents and sales can spare a few dollars a week. Or, how about you let some homeless sleep on your couch for a few weeks/months until they can find work? What about those greedy lecturers janitors who charge a fortune just so that some poor kid can improve their education? How about you teach them clean for free so they improve their chances and don't need to sleep on my couch? Why? Since when have I claimed to be an egalitarian? You keep trying to use the same approach toward me as I have been using toward you. But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing.  When did I claim to be egalitarian?

....Smithy is more of an Egotarian  :D

Swagman wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 1:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 22nd, 2015 at 11:47am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 10:41pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 6:33pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: Smithyboy, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund more public service jobs for the homeless? sure .... I've always said I'd be happy to pay more tax. What about you, when will you start paying tax? Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 21st, 2015 at 4:26pm: I am sure a real estate worker who screws over people by charging extortionist rents and sales can spare a few dollars a week. Or, how about you let some homeless sleep on your couch for a few weeks/months until they can find work? What about those greedy lecturers janitors who charge a fortune just so that some poor kid can improve their education? How about you teach them clean for free so they improve their chances and don't need to sleep on my couch? Why? Since when have I claimed to be an egalitarian? You keep trying to use the same approach toward me as I have been using toward you. But I think you haven't really understood what I am exposing.  When did I claim to be egalitarian? ....Smithy is more of an Egotarian  :D

actually, if he'd said that he'd have a better chance of getting something right .. :D :D :D ;)