GREENS leader Senator Christine Milne has praised European authorities for ­respecting the dignity of 800 dead boat people. 
 
Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty.

“The reporting talks about the tragedy as people drown ... they don’t talk about ‘illegals’ ... and they don’t talk about punishing refugees,” Milne told ­reporters in Hobart as crews continued recovering the bodies of dead people-smuggling victims. The 800 people, ­mostly from Africa and the Middle East, drowned when their boat capsized off the Italian coast on Sunday. UN spokeswoman Carlotta Sami described the tragedy as “the worst massacre ever seen in the Mediterranean”.

“The response by Sicilian authorities shows that Europeans respect the dignity of boat people,” Senator Milne said. “They talk about offering help and assistance.”

An estimated 1000 asylum seekers drowned trying to reach Australia after the Labor government relaxed previously successful border protection policies in 2008.

Following the deaths of 200 asylum seekers in 2011, Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young, whose party backed Labor’s policy switch, said: “Tragedies happen, accidents happen.”

The Abbott government ­restored people-smuggling ­deterrents after being elected in 2013. There were no confirmed deaths of asylum seekers attempting to reach Australia for the entire following year.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/no-talk-of-illegals-in-europe-says-greens-leader-christine-milne/story-fni0cx12-1227314228152

Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame.

A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:18am:

A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting.

How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment".

Milne wrong and using dead for political gain

AP could not wait to reuse the dead ?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:20am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment".

Forget about me I didn't write the article.

Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda or view ?

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:24am:

Milne wrong and using dead for political gain AP could not wait to reuse the dead ?

Just how am I, by pointing out Milne's puerile antics, using the dead?

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:25am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda ?

Show me one "snide comment".

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:18am:

A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting.

Maybe they went to the same school as the ABC & SMH  :D

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:26am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:25am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda ? Show me one "snide comment".

You do not think that the comments added were not meant to mock the unrelated point that Hanson had correctly made ?

You can not see that virtually every word added outside of Hanson's quote is meant to undermine what she had said, you really call this rubbish balanced reporting ?

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:35am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:26am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:25am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda ? Show me one "snide comment". You do not think that the comments added were not meant to mock the unrelated point that Hanson had correctly made ? You can not see that virtually every word added outside of Hanson's quote is meant to undermine what she had said, you really call this rubbish balanced reporting ?

Again, show me one "snide comment"...

Swagman wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:31am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. Maybe they went to the same school as the ABC & SMH  :D

They both wear a halo in comparison to the smello.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:37am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:35am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:26am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:25am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda ? Show me one "snide comment". You do not think that the comments added were not meant to mock the unrelated point that Hanson had correctly made ? You can not see that virtually every word added outside of Hanson's quote is meant to undermine what she had said, you really call this rubbish balanced reporting ? Again, show me one "snide comment"...

Virtually every comment was mocking and undermining the quote. - all of it, it isn't difficult to identify - just take out the quote and look at the intention of the rest of the writers unrelated comments.

See you sidestep admitting that the article is poor journalism in it significant bias.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:43am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:37am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:35am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:26am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:25am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda ? Show me one "snide comment". You do not think that the comments added were not meant to mock the unrelated point that Hanson had correctly made ? You can not see that virtually every word added outside of Hanson's quote is meant to undermine what she had said, you really call this rubbish balanced reporting ? Again, show me one "snide comment"... Virtually every comment was mocking and undermining the quote. - all of it, it isn't difficult to identify - just take out the quote and look at the intention of the rest of the writers unrelated comments. See you sidestep admitting that the article is poor journalism in it significant bias.

GREENS leader Senator Christine Milne has praised European authorities for ­respecting the dignity of 800 dead boat people. 
 
Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty.

“The reporting talks about the tragedy as people drown ... they don’t talk about ‘illegals’ ... and they don’t talk about punishing refugees,” Milne told ­reporters in Hobart as crews continued recovering the bodies of dead people-smuggling victims. The 800 people, ­mostly from Africa and the Middle East, drowned when their boat capsized off the Italian coast on Sunday. UN spokeswoman Carlotta Sami described the tragedy as “the worst massacre ever seen in the Mediterranean”.

“The response by Sicilian authorities shows that Europeans respect the dignity of boat people,” Senator Milne said. “They talk about offering help and assistance.”

An estimated 1000 asylum seekers drowned trying to reach Australia after the Labor government relaxed previously successful border protection policies in 2008.

Following the deaths of 200 asylum seekers in 2011, Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young, whose party backed Labor’s policy switch, said: “Tragedies happen, accidents happen.”

The Abbott government ­restored people-smuggling ­deterrents after being elected in 2013. There were no confirmed deaths of asylum seekers attempting to reach Australia for the entire following year.

Please highlight the "snide comment(s)" - that is, if you can...

Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"...

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:07am:

Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. .

You wouldn’t do that, Armchair. Your thoughts and prayers are with the families of the dead, not cheap points about domestic politics.

Karnal wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:15am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:07am: Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. . You wouldn’t do that, Armchair. Your thoughts and prayers are with the families of the dead, not cheap political points.

You clearly would...

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:17am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:15am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:07am: Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. . You wouldn’t do that, Armchair. Your thoughts and prayers are with the families of the dead, not cheap political points. You clearly would...

How’s that, Armchair?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:05am:

Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"...

You don't get comprehension do you.

You still sidestep the question about balance.

Keep in mind that this is not using the Bolt loop hole of claiming it is an opinion piece - this is supposedly a news story that just happens to be 70% comprised of the writers personal commentary in opposition to the actual story.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:43am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... You don't get comprehension do you. You still sidestep the question about balance. Keep in mind that this is not using the Bolt loop hole of claiming it is an opinion piece - this is supposedly a news story that just happens to be 70% comprised of the writers personal commentary in opposition to the actual story.

What's wrong with the article? Nothing stated is anything less than fact. Milne actually said what she is quoted as saying. What the Abbott government has been claimed to have done in the article, actually happened.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:25am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Forget about me I didn't write the article. Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda or view ?

You know, you're like a bad smell that lingers and you just can't get rid of it. You and the other left/re tard wouldn't usually say a word in favour of any Greens policies or views on just about anything, but because they knock Abbott in this thread you suddenly become a Greens supporter/lover. And I thought that Greenswine was the only really thick bugger on this site, you have proved me wrong.

"Forget about me".......I doubt anybody gives you a second thought.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 10:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... You don't get comprehension do you. You still sidestep the question about balance. Keep in mind that this is not using the Bolt loop hole of claiming it is an opinion piece - this is supposedly a news story that just happens to be 70% comprised of the writers personal commentary in opposition to the actual story. What's wrong with the article? Nothing stated is anything less than fact. Milne actually said what she is quoted as saying. What the Abbott government has been claimed to have done in the article, actually happened.

The comments about what Abbott has done is not relevant to the story and is only used to misleadingly mock the quote from Milne by relating it to a different area.

The report is meant to be on what Milne had said not about the writers opinion on a different matter, that would be an opinion piece, this is not presented as an opinion it is meant to be a report on the event not an opportunity to use her statement against her politically.

Her statement is both prefaced and followed by unrelated commentary undermining what she had said.

You are not going to tell me that you see no bias in the article are you ?

Resolute wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 10:19am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:25am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:20am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am: A lot of typical snide telegraph comments added into the article, wonder what they have against balanced reporting. How would you know what balanced reporting is? You're about as unbalanced as they come! BTW, show me one "snide comment". Forget about me I didn't write the article. Are you going to try to say that the text added to the story added any balance or was not biased in undermining the interview with their own political agenda or view ? You know, you're like a bad smell that lingers and you just can't get rid of it. You and the other left/re tard wouldn't usually say a word in favour of any Greens policies or views on just about anything, but because they knock Abbott in this thread you suddenly become a Greens supporter/lover. And I thought that Greenswine was the only really thick bugger on this site, you have proved me wrong. "Forget about me".......I doubt anybody gives you a second thought.

Typical start with an insult and make another post with absolutely no relevant content.

I actually do not agree with what she has said in full. I have commented mainly in the low standard of reporting in the article.

Yes I will easily forget about you and I have no need to insult you at all as the work you do to yourself is overkill in that area already.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:07am:

Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame.

Pot calling the kettle black armpit

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:05am:

Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"...

I'd like you to answer this if possible. Its not to trap you out on anything its really just to get clear in my mind how divided we are in politics watching.  OK here's the question; Do you believe that the Daily Telegraph provides balanced news/political reporting? 

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:05am:

Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"...

One example "Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty."
There is an editorial section in the newspaper where the newspaper expresses its view. That's why they invented the editorial so that readers were not fooled into thinking that the newspapers opinion was being pedalled as fact.  So when the newspaper editorialises in the middle of a news story repeatedly then what they are giving you is not news but propaganda.  If you opened a North Korean "newspaper" it would read very like the DT. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 10:53am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... One example "Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty." There is an editorial section in the newspaper where the newspaper expresses its view. That's why they invented the editorial so that readers were not fooled into thinking that the newspapers opinion was being pedalled as fact.  So when the newspaper editorialises in the middle of a news story repeatedly then what they are giving you is not news but propaganda.  If you opened a North Korean "newspaper" it would read very like the DT.

Can't argue with facts...

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:07am:

Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame.

No, actually she is 100% correct.

The ONLY ones who should be hanging their heads in shame are the architects
of this filthy policy and the xenophobic racist grubs who support it.

These views, and these policies, have NO place in this country.

If you want to blame those who are REALLY responsible for these drownings, you'd
be blaming the bastards they're fleeing from, not them, and not Labor.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:45am:

Please highlight the "snide comment(s)"

This is the most obvious one I found:


Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:45am:

Following the deaths of 200 asylum seekers in 2011, Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young, whose party backed Labor’s policy switch, said: “Tragedies happen, accidents happen.”

Apart from the fact that it is a completely unnecessary and meaningless quote to include in this particular story - it is quite obviously quoted out of context. Clearly implying that the Greens were happy with the asylum seeker arrangement at that time, and that they considered the deaths acceptable. That is a complete lie. The Greens policy at that time was for Australia to provide safe passage for these asylum seekers - which would have ended the deadly people-smuggling trade.

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 11:03am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:53am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... One example "Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty." There is an editorial section in the newspaper where the newspaper expresses its view. That's why they invented the editorial so that readers were not fooled into thinking that the newspapers opinion was being pedalled as fact.  So when the newspaper editorialises in the middle of a news story repeatedly then what they are giving you is not news but propaganda.  If you opened a North Korean "newspaper" it would read very like the DT.  Can't argue with facts...

Unless of course they're not facts but just simply portrayed as fact in which case they should not be stated in a news report as if they were facts.

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 11:27am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 11:03am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:53am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... One example "Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty." There is an editorial section in the newspaper where the newspaper expresses its view. That's why they invented the editorial so that readers were not fooled into thinking that the newspapers opinion was being pedalled as fact.  So when the newspaper editorialises in the middle of a news story repeatedly then what they are giving you is not news but propaganda.  If you opened a North Korean "newspaper" it would read very like the DT.  Can't argue with facts... Unless of course they're not facts but just simply portrayed as fact in which case they should not be stated in a news report as if they were facts.

"...the Abbott government end(ed) the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore sav(ed) many lives..." They did end the people smuggling trade in Australian waters. - Fact

"Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty" Milne did say this - Fact

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better.
::) ::) ::)

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 11:57am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 11:27am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 11:03am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:53am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... One example "Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty." There is an editorial section in the newspaper where the newspaper expresses its view. That's why they invented the editorial so that readers were not fooled into thinking that the newspapers opinion was being pedalled as fact.  So when the newspaper editorialises in the middle of a news story repeatedly then what they are giving you is not news but propaganda.  If you opened a North Korean "newspaper" it would read very like the DT.  Can't argue with facts... Unless of course they're not facts but just simply portrayed as fact in which case they should not be stated in a news report as if they were facts. "...the Abbott government end(ed) the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore sav(ed) many lives..." They did end the people smuggling trade in Australian waters. - Fact "Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty" Milne did say this - Fact

Thank God for the ABC. We can rely on them for much more balanced reporting. Tax payers money very well spent!!!!!! 

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:07am:

Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame.

exactly the same thing John Smith did...

Maybe Milne is writing on this forum under the NIC John Smith?

or is it they are both politically shameless...  >:(

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:25pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:07am: Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame. exactly the same thing John Smith did... Maybe Milne is writing on this forum under the NIC John Smith? or is it they are both politically shameless...  >:(

Could be.....Jack Sh!t does behave like a big tart, so he could indeed be Christine poorly disguised ..... :D

Grendel wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::)

Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:07am:

Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees"...

No she's not.



Quote:

...not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel"...

No she's not.



Notice that I'm giving just as much substantiation to my claims as you are to yours.




Quote:

...If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame.

Dark Irony.

The main thrust of the Coalition asylum seeker policies have NOT been devised to limit the number of deaths at sea (ie. for humanitarian reasons); don't kid yourself. They're not called `Border Protection Policies' for nothing.

This `preventing asylum seekers from drowning' BS has been deceitfully overlaid on existing policy rationales.

If you have any doubts, just look at the conditions the asylum seekers are unlawfully detained in...

...oh wait you can't because all that info is now hidden under the `On Water Matters' directive.


[EDIT (additional): When Triggs handed down her report into conditions in those detention centres, every right wing journalist hack and politician gave her a bashing. What they did not do was RESPOND COMPASSIONATELY to the report.

What a bunch of immoral cowards.]


Remember this gem?


Quote:

"We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come".

Does this sound like Howard is concerned with deaths at sea or is he using xenophobic racism to dog-whistle One Nation supporters to come back to the Coalition fold?

Were the lies about Children Overboard told out of a concern for the refugees?

Of course not.


More recently:


Quote:

"Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it’s not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia".

...also sounds like xenophobic rationalisation to me (and that's without going into the What Would Jesus Do implications...)


Immigration Minister Scott Morrison instructed departmental and detention centre staff to publicly refer to asylum seekers as ‘‘illegal maritime arrivals’’ and as ‘"detainees’’ or "transferees", rather than as refugees, asylum seekers or clients.

hmmm. Why would they do that if they were concerned with asylum seekers wellbeing?

Sounds like they're trying to dehumanise and demonise them; it does not sound respectful in the least.



Make no mistake, this mob doesn't give a tinker's cuss about any of them or their lives or their wellbeing or their rights.

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:25pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:07am: Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame. exactly the same thing John Smith did... Maybe Milne is writing on this forum under the NIC John Smith? or is it they are both politically shameless...  >:(

only a lib would make asylum seekers a political issue, then complain when it is used politically

I'm also not sure how anyone who supports Abbott could even contemplate calling anyone else shameless ... the only thing that makes sense is that there must be a lot of people that don't own mirrors

Resolute wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:32pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:25pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:07am: Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame. exactly the same thing John Smith did... Maybe Milne is writing on this forum under the NIC John Smith? or is it they are both politically shameless...  >:( Could be.....Jack Sh!t does behave like a big tart, so he could indeed be Christine poorly disguised ..... :D

Judging from your posts I'd have thought you liked a tart or two ...

Grendel wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::)

That's as may be, but the fact remains that the Greens are the only
ones to field an even remotely-acceptable boat-people policy.

I have no time for much of the Greens' agenda, but I totally support
them in their opposition to our ongoing deplorable and reprehensible
treatment of asylum-seekers.

Grendel wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::)

profound.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 4:44pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) profound.

and totally unbiased ....

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:02am:

GREENS leader Senator Christine Milne has praised European authorities for ­respecting the dignity of 800 dead boat people.    Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty. “The reporting talks about the tragedy as people drown ... they don’t talk about ‘illegals’ ... and they don’t talk about punishing refugees,” Milne told ­reporters in Hobart as crews continued recovering the bodies of dead people-smuggling victims. The 800 people, ­mostly from Africa and the Middle East, drowned when their boat capsized off the Italian coast on Sunday. UN spokeswoman Carlotta Sami described the tragedy as “the worst massacre ever seen in the Mediterranean”. “The response by Sicilian authorities shows that Europeans respect the dignity of boat people,” Senator Milne said. “They talk about offering help and assistance.” An estimated 1000 asylum seekers drowned trying to reach Australia after the Labor government relaxed previously successful border protection policies in 2008. Following the deaths of 200 asylum seekers in 2011, Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young, whose party backed Labor’s policy switch, said: “Tragedies happen, accidents happen.” The Abbott government ­restored people-smuggling ­deterrents after being elected in 2013. There were no confirmed deaths of asylum seekers attempting to reach Australia for the entire following year. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/no-talk-of-illegals-in-europe-says-greens-leader-christine-milne/story-fni0cx12-1227314228152

what 'dignity' is there in 800 dead people lead to do so by slack immigration policies?  there is no dignity in drowning. Milne is an idiot.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 10:29am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... You don't get comprehension do you. You still sidestep the question about balance. Keep in mind that this is not using the Bolt loop hole of claiming it is an opinion piece - this is supposedly a news story that just happens to be 70% comprised of the writers personal commentary in opposition to the actual story. What's wrong with the article? Nothing stated is anything less than fact. Milne actually said what she is quoted as saying. What the Abbott government has been claimed to have done in the article, actually happened. The comments about what Abbott has done is not relevant to the story and is only used to misleadingly mock the quote from Milne by relating it to a different area. The report is meant to be on what Milne had said not about the writers opinion on a different matter, that would be an opinion piece, this is not presented as an opinion it is meant to be a report on the event not an opportunity to use her statement against her politically. Her statement is both prefaced and followed by unrelated commentary undermining what she had said. You are not going to tell me that you see no bias in the article are you ?

getting a tad desperate now, aren't you?  there were no factual errors in the article nor any bias.  You just dont like the story because it makes you look silly.

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 11:27am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 11:03am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:53am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... One example "Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty." There is an editorial section in the newspaper where the newspaper expresses its view. That's why they invented the editorial so that readers were not fooled into thinking that the newspapers opinion was being pedalled as fact.  So when the newspaper editorialises in the middle of a news story repeatedly then what they are giving you is not news but propaganda.  If you opened a North Korean "newspaper" it would read very like the DT.  Can't argue with facts... Unless of course they're not facts but just simply portrayed as fact in which case they should not be stated in a news report as if they were facts.

you really are not a fan of facts that oppose your ideology, are you?  stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives and that is based on the thousand or so that DID die in the previous few years.  It is quite simple... unless you place ideology above truth - which you do.

Milne made no comment about the people stacked like sardines below decks who couldn't get out because they were trapped. That's why so many died- greedy people smuggling criminals.

Happy Lucky wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:21pm:

Milne made no comment about the people stacked like sardines below decks who couldn't get out because they were trapped. That's why so many died- greedy people smuggling criminals.

Milne onlky makes sense when she is quiet. When she starts to talk she sounds awful and makes even less sense. what 'dignity' is there in Europe adopting policies that encourages boats to come over and tens of thousands die as a result?  There is no dignity in an untimely death.

Milne is a fool. Not even Bob Brown would have been quite so foolish.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:17pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:29am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... You don't get comprehension do you. You still sidestep the question about balance. Keep in mind that this is not using the Bolt loop hole of claiming it is an opinion piece - this is supposedly a news story that just happens to be 70% comprised of the writers personal commentary in opposition to the actual story. What's wrong with the article? Nothing stated is anything less than fact. Milne actually said what she is quoted as saying. What the Abbott government has been claimed to have done in the article, actually happened. The comments about what Abbott has done is not relevant to the story and is only used to misleadingly mock the quote from Milne by relating it to a different area. The report is meant to be on what Milne had said not about the writers opinion on a different matter, that would be an opinion piece, this is not presented as an opinion it is meant to be a report on the event not an opportunity to use her statement against her politically. Her statement is both prefaced and followed by unrelated commentary undermining what she had said. You are not going to tell me that you see no bias in the article are you ? getting a tad desperate now, aren't you?  there were no factual errors in the article nor any bias.  You just dont like the story because it makes you look silly.

How does it make anyone except the smelograph look silly ?

I had nothing to do with the article, I don't even think that she is right.

The fact here is that the leader of a political party has made some type of statement that the paper decided to cover, the article produced in the guise of news is mainly about the view of the writer and deliberately sets out to not report on the actual news but to dominate the story with the writers own political view on the topic.

They have not reported Milne's statement but clearly set out to undermine her opinion.

This is disgraceful reporting. Either provide the news or produce opinion but don't do one while pretending to be doing the other.

John Smith wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 2:51pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:25pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:07am: Not only is Milne wrong about the Abbott government "punishing refugees", not only is she wrong about the Abbott government's policy being "cruel", she is clearly using the dead for her own political gain in an attempt to score some very cheap points. If we'd followed her lead, we could very well have seen that tragedy occur somewhere between Darwin and Bali by now and the 1,200 dead on Labor/Green's watch would likely be far higher than it is now. Milne should hang her head in shame. exactly the same thing John Smith did... Maybe Milne is writing on this forum under the NIC John Smith? or is it they are both politically shameless...  >:( only a lib would make asylum seekers a political issue, then complain when it is used politically I'm also not sure how anyone who supports Abbott could even contemplate calling anyone else shameless ... the only thing that makes sense is that there must be a lot of people that don't own mirrors

Mechanic just supports good government and sound policy, JS. He’s not biased.

Like Grendel, Armchair, Longy and Happy. They just want what’s best for Australia.

Politics don’t come into it.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 4:44pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) profound.

Let’s not bring politics into this, G. Grendel’s still in mourning.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:13pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:02am: GREENS leader Senator Christine Milne has praised European authorities for ­respecting the dignity of 800 dead boat people.    Despite the Abbott government ending the people smuggling trade in Australian waters and therefore saving many lives, Milne said the ­European approach contrasted with Australia’s cruelty. “The reporting talks about the tragedy as people drown ... they don’t talk about ‘illegals’ ... and they don’t talk about punishing refugees,” Milne told ­reporters in Hobart as crews continued recovering the bodies of dead people-smuggling victims. The 800 people, ­mostly from Africa and the Middle East, drowned when their boat capsized off the Italian coast on Sunday. UN spokeswoman Carlotta Sami described the tragedy as “the worst massacre ever seen in the Mediterranean”. “The response by Sicilian authorities shows that Europeans respect the dignity of boat people,” Senator Milne said. “They talk about offering help and assistance.” An estimated 1000 asylum seekers drowned trying to reach Australia after the Labor government relaxed previously successful border protection policies in 2008. Following the deaths of 200 asylum seekers in 2011, Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young, whose party backed Labor’s policy switch, said: “Tragedies happen, accidents happen.” The Abbott government ­restored people-smuggling ­deterrents after being elected in 2013. There were no confirmed deaths of asylum seekers attempting to reach Australia for the entire following year. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/no-talk-of-illegals-in-europe-says-greens-leader-christine-milne/story-fni0cx12-1227314228152 what 'dignity' is there in 800 dead people lead to do so by slack immigration policies?  there is no dignity in drowning. Milne is an idiot.

Exactly. These leftards are appalling, Longy. People are dying and they want to bring politics into it.

M0rons.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

So you don't believe that the people who didn't come here also didn't try to go somewhere else instead ?

Does not seem to leave them many options.

Karnal wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 4:44pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) profound. Let’s not bring politics into this, G. Grendel’s still in mourning.

Yes early morning even.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

Just quit while you're well ahead of these fruit loops. It's like arguing with the nutters from the anti-vaccination brigade. One of them honestly believes the vaccines don't actually contain vaccines but that they really contain RFID tracking devices that enable the government to keep tabs on every one of us - at least those of us dumb enough not to see the "vaccination" program for the covert conspiracy that it really is!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:17pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:29am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 10:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 9:05am: Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"... You don't get comprehension do you. You still sidestep the question about balance. Keep in mind that this is not using the Bolt loop hole of claiming it is an opinion piece - this is supposedly a news story that just happens to be 70% comprised of the writers personal commentary in opposition to the actual story. What's wrong with the article? Nothing stated is anything less than fact. Milne actually said what she is quoted as saying. What the Abbott government has been claimed to have done in the article, actually happened. The comments about what Abbott has done is not relevant to the story and is only used to misleadingly mock the quote from Milne by relating it to a different area. The report is meant to be on what Milne had said not about the writers opinion on a different matter, that would be an opinion piece, this is not presented as an opinion it is meant to be a report on the event not an opportunity to use her statement against her politically. Her statement is both prefaced and followed by unrelated commentary undermining what she had said. You are not going to tell me that you see no bias in the article are you ? getting a tad desperate now, aren't you?  there were no factual errors in the article nor any bias.  You just dont like the story because it makes you look silly. How does it make anyone except the smelograph look silly ? I had nothing to do with the article, I don't even think that she is right. The fact here is that the leader of a political party has made some type of statement that the paper decided to cover, the article produced in the guise of news is mainly about the view of the writer and deliberately sets out to not report on the actual news but to dominate the story with the writers own political view on the topic. They have not reported Milne's statement but clearly set out to undermine her opinion. This is disgraceful reporting. Either provide the news or produce opinion but don't do one while pretending to be doing the other.

not disgraceful at all.  it is of course embarrassing to people like you to hear someone praising a people and their policies which kill thousands of people a year.  But your embarrassment does not make the article bad - merely uneasy to read.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 7:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. Just quit while you're well ahead of these fruit loops. It's like arguing with the nutters from the anti-vaccination brigade. One of them honestly believes the vaccines don't actually contain vaccines but that they really contain RFID tracking devices that enable the government to keep tabs on every one of us - at least those of us dumb enough not to see the "vaccination" program for the covert conspiracy that it really is!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

the anti-vaccination crowd are awesome!  now they are comparing vaccinations with rape.  That kind of analogy is not helping their cause.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

non existent logic is convincing yourself that if Abbott doesn't let them come here, they sit at home and wait to be shot or jailed ... of course they'll go elsewhere ... stopping the boats does not stop the drownings, it just moves them elsewhere.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:27pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning. that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:22am:

not disgraceful at all.  it is of course embarrassing to people like you to hear someone praising a people and their policies which kill thousands of people a year.  But your embarrassment does not make the article bad - merely uneasy to read.

It's way too early to have taken the red pills.

John Smith wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. non existent logic is convincing yourself that if Abbott doesn't let them come here, they sit at home and wait to be shot or jailed ... of course they'll go elsewhere ... stopping the boats does not stop the drownings, it just moves them elsewhere.

from indonesia to Libya?????

That is not a credible argument.  But worse is your need to blame ABbott for EVERYTHING, even something like this.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

Whats difficult for me to swallow is this profoundly stupid and narrow minded view that this issue can be dealt with outside a global context. Asylum seekers travelling to Australia are part of a global movement of people, and simply shutting down the boats in our region isn't going to help anyone - unless its part of a global strategy to help and protect the people who would make such dangerous journeys. All we are doing is pushing these people to try other avenues - equally dangerous if not more so - to achieve their goal for asylum and a safe future for their children. We are simply absolving our responsibility and using the sick logic that because we can no longer see the boats and the drowning - therefore the problem is no longer there. Its there alright, and its getting worse and worse, and our "out of sight out of mind" policy is not helping anyone.

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: mothra wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:27pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning. that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. And no maths at all. Idiot.

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries.  We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries.  We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

To make the comparison the same you would need to export all drivers to other countries and then claim that the increase in road carnage experienced in those countries was due to the extra traffic generated by Australian drivers.

If drowning were stopped by solving the problem than what you say would be true. However the reality is that we have exported the problem to other areas that have recorded an increase consistent with what would be expected by any reasonable person. We have put more cars on their roads.

Your analogy when put correctly undermines your preferred position.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:33am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: mothra wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:27pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning. that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. And no maths at all. Idiot. it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries.  We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

Now THAT is non-existent logic.

Comparing road carnage to desperate people fleeing persecution?

What you fail to understand is that asylum seekers are a global problem and as such the entire total of them are within our sphere of influence. Turning back the boats doesn't stop the boats at all.

How is that such a difficult concept for you?

Karnal wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 2:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand.

You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll.
No?
How usual for you ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Grendel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 11:27am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 2:47pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand. You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll. No? How usual for you ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You're right, Grendel. I could list all of Christine Milne's 57 lies - lie by inference, lie by omission, lie by slandering Mr Abbott etc, etc, but I know you want to keep the focus on the victims here. 

I'm aware also that your laughter is really a way of covering up your tears for the families of this shocking tragedy - one of the worst marine disasters in living memory.

I'm with you, Grendel. We wouldn't want to turn such a tragedy into a political bunfight. That's what the leftards do.

mothra wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:18am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:55am: Karnal wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:33am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: mothra wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:27pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning. that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. And no maths at all. Idiot. it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries.  We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence. Now THAT is non-existent logic. Comparing road carnage to desperate people fleeing persecution? What you fail to understand is that asylum seekers are a global problem and as such the entire total of them are within our sphere of influence. Turning back the boats doesn't stop the boats at all. How is that such a difficult concept for you?

that is beyond idiotic. if you want to blame Abbott for anything then you can only rightly blame him for for areas under his sphere of influence. to do anything else is dumb. The boat drownings HAVE stopped over here and is therefore a success.  claiming a drowning off libya has anything to do with Abbott i beyond insane. 

and for all your talk of higher risks of drowning, the actual figures are ZERO drownings as opposed to a couple thousand in the years before.

by any sane definition of the word, that is a success.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:56pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 10:18am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:55am: Karnal wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:33am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: mothra wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:27pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning. that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. And no maths at all. Idiot. it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries.  We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence. Now THAT is non-existent logic. Comparing road carnage to desperate people fleeing persecution? What you fail to understand is that asylum seekers are a global problem and as such the entire total of them are within our sphere of influence. Turning back the boats doesn't stop the boats at all. How is that such a difficult concept for you? that is beyond idiotic. if you want to blame Abbott for anything then you can only rightly blame him for for areas under his sphere of influence. to do anything else is dumb. The boat drownings HAVE stopped over here and is therefore a success.  claiming a drowning off libya has anything to do with Abbott i beyond insane.  and for all your talk of higher risks of drowning, the actual figures are ZERO drownings as opposed to a couple thousand in the years before. by any sane definition of the word, that is a success.

You're not following the bouncing ball. Asylum seekers are a global problem. Turning back the boats does not mean there are less boats, just less boats landing here.

And how do you know there are zero drownings/. Firstly,there is a cloak of secrecy around border protection .. none of us know jack shite. Secondly, do you think the media are reporting on the outcome of boats that have been turned back?

Do try to think these things out for yourself. You've had enough people point it out to you now ... time to do a bit of the work on your own.

:D :D :D :D
Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:30pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 11:27am: Karnal wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 2:47pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand. You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll. No? How usual for you ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You're right, Grendel. I could list all of Christine Milne's 57 lies - lie by inference, lie by omission, lie by slandering Mr Abbott etc, etc, but I know you want to keep the focus on the victims here.  I'm aware also that your laughter is really a way of covering up your tears for the families of this shocking tragedy - one of the worst marine disasters in living memory. I'm with you, Grendel. We wouldn't want to turn such a tragedy into a political bunfight. That's what the leftards do.

:D :D :D :D :D
I'm still waiting for that FACTUAL refutation Troll. ::)

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:53am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:25am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. non existent logic is convincing yourself that if Abbott doesn't let them come here, they sit at home and wait to be shot or jailed ... of course they'll go elsewhere ... stopping the boats does not stop the drownings, it just moves them elsewhere. from indonesia to Libya????? That is not a credible argument.  But worse is your need to blame ABbott for EVERYTHING, even something like this.

not credible is the crap you come up with. They don't start in Indonesia you more on.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:33am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 9:21am: mothra wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 8:27pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 7:10pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 5:19pm: stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped". ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting. in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow. You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world". How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location. Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning. that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent. And no maths at all. Idiot. it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries.  We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

;D ;D ;D ;D

that's your comparison? And you think Bam gets mocked on this forum?

You're an absolute idiot

Grendel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 1:36pm:

:D :D :D :D Karnal wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 12:30pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 11:27am: Karnal wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 2:47pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm: Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better. ::) ::) ::) Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand. You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll. No? How usual for you ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You're right, Grendel. I could list all of Christine Milne's 57 lies - lie by inference, lie by omission, lie by slandering Mr Abbott etc, etc, but I know you want to keep the focus on the victims here.  I'm aware also that your laughter is really a way of covering up your tears for the families of this shocking tragedy - one of the worst marine disasters in living memory. I'm with you, Grendel. We wouldn't want to turn such a tragedy into a political bunfight. That's what the leftards do. :D :D :D :D :D I'm still waiting for that FACTUAL refutation Troll. ::)

But I'm agreeing with you. You're the only unbiased poster on this board, Grendel. I couldn't possibly disagree with you - you always present a balanced, well-considered response.

Even for a Troll you are truly dense at times... :D

Grendel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 2:00pm:

Even for a Troll you are truly dense at times... :D

Sorry - have I missed one of your biased posts? I'd be surprised if you've ever posted one of these, Grendel.

You know, you really shouldn't sell yourself so short.

I do wish you'd stop wasting my time....  sigh...  looks like I'm putting you back on ignore. ::)

Grendel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 2:28pm:

I do wish you'd stop wasting my time....  sigh...  looks like I'm putting you back on ignore. ::)

I know, Grendel. You've got much better things to do.

Thanks for the advice though.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:56pm:

and for all your talk of higher risks of drowning, the actual figures are ZERO drownings as opposed to a couple thousand in the years before. by any sane definition of the word, that is a success.

Yes he has successfully diverted refugees to other locations where they are in fact drowning in record numbers.

Huge success.

None of the North Africans were ever going to come here DNA its much closer to just  travel over the Mediterranean...  do please try to be truthful not just a politically biased ideologue. ::) ::) ::)

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:05am:

Still waiting for your post showing what you think is a "snide comment"...

That would be the entire article, aside from what Milne was quoted as saying, would it not?