Audi has successfully made diesel fuel from carbon dioxide and water
http://www.sciencealert.com/images/audi-e-diesel-0.jpg

Quote:

German car manufacturer Audi has reportedly invented a carbon-neutral diesel fuel, made solely from water, carbon dioxide and renewable energy sources. And the crystal clear 'e-diesel' is already being used to power the Audi A8 owned by the country’s Federal Minister of Education and Research, Johanna Wanka. The creation of the fuel is a huge step forward for sustainable transport, but the fact that it’s being backed by an automotive giant is even more exciting. Audi has now set up a pilot plant in Dresden, Germany, operated by clean tech company Sunfire, which will pump out 160 litres of the synthetic diesel every day in the coming months. Their base product, which they’re calling 'blue crude' is created using a three-step process. The first step involves harvesting renewable energy from sources such as wind, solar and hydropower. They then use this energy to split water into oxygen and pure hydrogen, using a process known as reversible electrolysis. This hydrogen is then mixed with carbon monoxide (CO), which is created from carbon dioxide (CO2) that’s been harvested from the atmosphere. The two react at high temperatures and under pressure, resulting in the production of the long-chain hydrocarbon compounds that make up the blue crude. Once it's been refined, the resulting e-diesel can be mixed in with our current diesel fuel, or used on its own to power cars in a more sustainable way. Sunfire analyses have shown that the synthetic fuel is not only more environmentally friendly, but also has superior combustion when compared to fossil fuels. The overall energy efficiency of the e-diesel is 70 percent, they report. "The engine runs quieter and fewer pollutants are being created," said Sunfire Chief Technology Officer Christian von Olshausen in a press release. Of course, with the initial factory only pumping out around 160 litres each day, the fuel isn’t going to have a huge impact on the market just yet. But Audi and Sunfire now want to build a bigger factory, and anticipate that once production is scaled up, the e-diesel will sell to the public for between 1 and 1.50 Euros per litre, dependent on the cost of renewable electricity. With traditional diesel currently on the market for upwards of 1.50 Euros per litre in Germany, this would make the fuel extremely competitive, and perfectly positioned to made sustainable travel accessible to everyone. "If we get the first sales order, we will be ready to commercialise our technology", said von Olshausen. Just imagine being able to tear around the countryside in an Audi sportscar, and not having to feel guilty for all the CO2 emissions you're producing. We can't wait.

This is very good news if the production can be scaled up successfully. It would put a ceiling on fuel prices and also give us a fuel source in the post-oil world.

I have thought that biodiesel from crops would be feasible, but if synthetic diesel can be created directly from carbon dioxide and water, that is even better.

Pretty impressive technology. Taking CO2 out of the environment to create a clean renewable fuel is killing more than 2 birds with one stone.

Let's see how this develops when the big oil companies put their oar in the water.

How much water?

... wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 8:07pm:

How much water?

A more pertinent question: how much energy?

Fuel of the future: Research facility in Dresden produces first batch of Audi e-diesel (www.audi-mediaservices.com, press release)

Quote:

Audi has taken another big step in the development of new, CO2 neutral fuels: A pilot plant in Dresden has started production of the synthetic fuel Audi e diesel. After a commissioning phase of just four months, the research facility in Dresden started producing its first batches of high‑quality diesel fuel a few days ago. To demonstrate its suitability for everyday use, Federal Minister of Education and Research Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka put the first five liters into her official car, an Audi A8 3.0 TDI clean diesel quattro*, this Tuesday. “This synthetic diesel, made using CO2, is a huge success for our sustainability research. If we can make widespread use of CO2 as a raw material, we will make a crucial contribution to climate protection and the efficient use of resources, and put the fundamentals of the “green economy” in place,” declared Wanka. The Dresden energy technology corporation sunfire is Audi’s project partner and the plant operator. It operates according to the power‑to‑liquid (PtL) principle and uses green power to produce a liquid fuel. The only raw materials needed are water and carbon dioxide. The CO2 used is currently supplied by a biogas facility. In addition, initially a portion of the CO2 needed is extracted from the ambient air by means of direct air capturing, a technology of Audi’s Zurich‑based partner Climeworks. Reiner Mangold, Head of Sustainable Product Development at Audi, sees Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑fuels in general as an important component that complements electric mobility: “In developing Audi e-diesel we are promoting another fuel based on CO2 that will allow long‑distance mobility with virtually no impact on the climate. Using CO2 as a raw material represents an opportunity not just for the automotive industry in Germany, but also to transfer the principle to other sectors and countries.” Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks. In two further steps, the hydrogen reacts with the CO2 in synthesis reactors, again under pressure and at high temperature. The reaction product is a liquid made from long‑chain hydrocarbon compounds, known as blue crude. The efficiency of the overall process – from renewable power to liquid hydrocarbon – is very high at around 70 percent. Similarly to a fossil crude oil, blue crude can be refined to yield the end product Audi e‑diesel. This synthetic fuel is free from sulfur and aromatic hydrocarbons, and its high cetane number means it is readily ignitable. As lab tests conducted at Audi have shown, it is suitable for admixing with fossil diesel or, prospectively, for use as a fuel in its own right. The Federal Ministry of Education and Research is supporting the sunfire project, which started in May 2012. Construction work on the facility in Dresden‑Reick kicked off in July 2013 and the plant was commissioned on November 14, 2014. The plant is set to produce over 3,000 liters (792.5 US gal) of Audi e‑diesel over the coming months. Audi is sunfire’s exclusive partner in the automotive sector. Over and above the partnership with sunfire, Audi has been active in the development of CO2‑neutral fuels – Audi e‑fuels – since 2009. The Audi e‑gas plant in Werlte, Lower Saxony, already produces Audi e‑gas (synthetic methane) in a comparable manner; drivers of the Audi A3 Sportback g‑tron* can fill up on it using a special fuel card. Audi is also conducting joint research into the synthetic manufacture of Audi e‑gasoline with Global Bioenergies, of France. In a further project, Audi has joined forces with the U.S. company Joule, which uses microorganisms to produce the synthetic fuels Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑ethanol.

I especially like this bit:

Quote:

Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks.

This means the "baseload renewable" discussion is less important. It is an industrial process that can be varied according to the availability of sustainable energy, producing more when there's plenty of energy and scaling back when sustainable energy production is down.

It's more accurate though to state that it is not the diesel output that would vary, but the hydrogen feedstock used in that process. I expect that a well-designed plant would produce diesel continuously, with the hydrogen feedstock being replenished when spare energy is available and depleted when it is not.

The house of Saud will do anything to stop it. Not to mention Shell BP Exon.

Them fine folks over there in the Wilds of England must sure be pissed friends.

After, what, a century making allies with mass murderers like Stalin and such, all to contain them cotton picking Germanics, and stealing their technologies and such after WWII, leveling their cities, but bankrupting and impoverishing themselves in the process until their people are so poor they are screaming to leave on ships fer anywhere they can, including France, and they still can't make something as good and whiz bang as them Germanics can?

And then the Germanics have the cheek to invent this in a city that was specifically targeted by them fine folks in the Wilds of England because it had all the refugees walking from the East and such to escape Mr Stalin, their ally?

How dare they!

It makes me sad friends.

Trees/ plants have been doing this for millions of years.

This sounds a bit like a hoax to me. Bam, how reliable is the source for this report?

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

This sounds a bit like a hoax to me. Bam, how reliable is the source for this report?

I posted something that a friend lined to me on Facebook, but I have looked around. It's on more mainstream news sites, it looks legit.

Mind-Bending Science: Audi Producing Diesel Fuel Using Water And Carbon Dioxide (Yahoo!)
Audi creates green 'e-diesel fuel of the future' using just carbon dioxide and water (International Business Times)
Audi Creates Synthetic Diesel Out of Just Air and Water (msn.com)
Synthetic diesel fuel production starts (telegraph.co.uk)

I haven't seen it on Australian news sites, but it was only announced last week.

issuevoter wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 9:26pm:

The house of Saud will do anything to stop it. Not to mention Shell BP Exon.

It wouldn't surprise me. The fossil fuel industry has form. They spend about half a billion dollars each year supporting climate change denial and they were buying up key patents for electric cars to suppress competition.

mothra wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Pretty impressive technology. Taking CO2 out of the environment to create a clean renewable fuel is killing more than 2 birds with one stone. Let's see how this develops when the big oil companies put their oar in the water.

That's amazing.
I would have never imagined it.

Bam wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 11:06pm:

I haven't seen it on Australian news sites, but it was only announced last week.

I had my doubts about it too, but there's a press release from Audi about it:

Quote:

Ingolstadt/Berlin, 2015-04-21 Fuel of the future: Research facility in Dresden produces first batch of Audi e-diesel The verdict: Pilot plant produces high-quality diesel fuel No need for mineral oil: e-diesel made from water, CO2 and green power Minister Wanka: “Synthetic diesel using CO2 is a huge success” Minister of Research, Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka, and Reiner Mangold, Head of Sustainable Product Development at AUDI AG, refueled the Minister’s official car - a Audi A8 3.0 TDI clean diesel quattro - with the first five liters of Audi e-diesel. Audi has taken another big step in the development of new, CO2 neutral fuels: A pilot plant in Dresden has started production of the synthetic fuel Audi e diesel. After a commissioning phase of just four months, the research facility in Dresden started producing its first batches of high‑quality diesel fuel a few days ago. To demonstrate its suitability for everyday use, Federal Minister of Education and Research Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka put the first five liters into her official car, an Audi A8 3.0 TDI clean diesel quattro*, this Tuesday. “This synthetic diesel, made using CO2, is a huge success for our sustainability research. If we can make widespread use of CO2 as a raw material, we will make a crucial contribution to climate protection and the efficient use of resources, and put the fundamentals of the “green economy” in place,” declared Wanka. The Dresden energy technology corporation sunfire is Audi’s project partner and the plant operator. It operates according to the power‑to‑liquid (PtL) principle and uses green power to produce a liquid fuel. The only raw materials needed are water and carbon dioxide. The CO2 used is currently supplied by a biogas facility. In addition, initially a portion of the CO2 needed is extracted from the ambient air by means of direct air capturing, a technology of Audi’s Zurich‑based partner Climeworks. Reiner Mangold, Head of Sustainable Product Development at Audi, sees Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑fuels in general as an important component that complements electric mobility: “In developing Audi e-diesel we are promoting another fuel based on CO2 that will allow long‑distance mobility with virtually no impact on the climate. Using CO2 as a raw material represents an opportunity not just for the automotive industry in Germany, but also to transfer the principle to other sectors and countries.” Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks. In two further steps, the hydrogen reacts with the CO2 in synthesis reactors, again under pressure and at high temperature. The reaction product is a liquid made from long‑chain hydrocarbon compounds, known as blue crude. The efficiency of the overall process – from renewable power to liquid hydrocarbon – is very high at around 70 percent. Similarly to a fossil crude oil, blue crude can be refined to yield the end product Audi e‑diesel. This synthetic fuel is free from sulfur and aromatic hydrocarbons, and its high cetane number means it is readily ignitable. As lab tests conducted at Audi have shown, it is suitable for admixing with fossil diesel or, prospectively, for use as a fuel in its own right. The Federal Ministry of Education and Research is supporting the sunfire project, which started in May 2012. Construction work on the facility in Dresden‑Reick kicked off in July 2013 and the plant was commissioned on November 14, 2014. The plant is set to produce over 3,000 liters (792.5 US gal) of Audi e‑diesel over the coming months. Audi is sunfire’s exclusive partner in the automotive sector. Over and above the partnership with sunfire, Audi has been active in the development of CO2‑neutral fuels – Audi e‑fuels – since 2009. The Audi e‑gas plant in Werlte, Lower Saxony, already produces Audi e‑gas (synthetic methane) in a comparable manner; drivers of the Audi A3 Sportback g‑tron* can fill up on it using a special fuel card. Audi is also conducting joint research into the synthetic manufacture of Audi e‑gasoline with Global Bioenergies, of France. In a further project, Audi has joined forces with the U.S. company Joule, which uses microorganisms to produce the synthetic fuels Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑ethanol.

https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/publish/ms/content/en/public/pressemitteilungen/2015/04/21/fuel_of_the_future.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Edq_Irstk

mothra wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Pretty impressive technology. Taking CO2 out of the environment to create a clean renewable fuel is killing more than 2 birds with one stone.

It wouldn't take CO₂ out of the environment because the fuel must eventually be burnt and this will return the CO₂ to the atmosphere. It's actually a zero-sum process - carbon neutral.


mothra wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Let's see how this develops when the big oil companies put their oar in the water.

There are two kinds of oil companies: those that recognise that they are energy companies, and companies that eventually must go out of business.

The smart oil companies would embrace this technology. Economies of scale could see the fuel be produced very cheaply, especially with a vertically-integrated production model where the company produces its own electricity for the fuel plant.

Perhaps it could be possible to produce the fuel economically on a smaller scale - a mining company that produces its own diesel, or even a farm - any venture that has access to sufficient land.

miketrees wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 9:51pm:

Trees/ plants have been doing this for millions of years.

Indeed they have, but much of the energy they capture they use for their metabolic processes. We only get what's left.

This new technology cuts out the middleman.

Bam wrote on Apr 29^th, 2015 at 12:18am:

The smart oil companies would embrace this technology. Economies of scale could see the fuel be produced very cheaply, especially with a vertically-integrated production model where the company produces its own electricity for the fuel plant.

Exactly, a smart company will say OK, oils dying off so lets diversify into this, we still sell it as fuel, so we're still going to make money off it.

Quote:

Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka

N-O .... W-A-Y  :o  :o

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 29^th, 2015 at 10:52am:

Quote: Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka N-O .... W-A-Y  :o  :o

That was my initial reaction, but it really is her name.  It mustn't have the same meaning in German.

http://www.bmbf.de/en/555.php

Bam wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 7:59pm:

This is very good news if the production can be scaled up successfully. It would put a ceiling on fuel prices and also give us a fuel source in the post-oil world. I have thought that biodiesel from crops would be feasible, but if synthetic diesel can be created directly from carbon dioxide and water, that is even better.

if it is economical and scalable then it is in fact revolutionary. It would transform the petrol and car industry over the next 10-20 years.  My only concern is the 'Ive heard this before' routine.  BMWs hydrogen cars work and can be run on any easily modern car and yet it hasn't happened.  Scalability is apparently a problem and the fact this requires huge amount of electricity (don't fall for the renewable energy aspect) might limit it as well.

Bam wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 8:31pm:

I especially like this bit: Quote: Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks. This means the "baseload renewable" discussion is less important. It is an industrial process that can be varied according to the availability of sustainable energy, producing more when there's plenty of energy and scaling back when sustainable energy production is down. It's more accurate though to state that it is not the diesel output that would vary, but the hydrogen feedstock used in that process. I expect that a well-designed plant would produce diesel continuously, with the hydrogen feedstock being replenished when spare energy is available and depleted when it is not.

it all sounds nice but it sounds like a technology for sometime in the future. it uses a LOT of power and a lot of water and probably a lot of dollars as well. And I would be more convinced when it can make more than enough fuel for TWO cars per day.

But just the same, it is impressive.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 29^th, 2015 at 12:59pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:31pm: I especially like this bit: Quote: Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks. This means the "baseload renewable" discussion is less important. It is an industrial process that can be varied according to the availability of sustainable energy, producing more when there's plenty of energy and scaling back when sustainable energy production is down. It's more accurate though to state that it is not the diesel output that would vary, but the hydrogen feedstock used in that process. I expect that a well-designed plant would produce diesel continuously, with the hydrogen feedstock being replenished when spare energy is available and depleted when it is not. it all sounds nice but it sounds like a technology for sometime in the future. it uses a LOT of power and a lot of water and probably a lot of dollars as well. And I would be more convinced when it can make more than enough fuel for TWO cars per day. But just the same, it is impressive.

I agree, but you have to start somewhere. I'm sure a similar thing was said about petrol.

Its probably still cheaper to let the experts (plants) do the conversion.

miketrees wrote on Apr 29^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

Its probably still cheaper to let the experts (plants) do the conversion.

I'm pretty sure that if this were the case we would already be doing it.


Quote:

Audi and Sunfire ... anticipate that once production is scaled up, the e-diesel will sell to the public for between 1 and 1.50 Euros per litre, dependent on the cost of renewable electricity. With traditional diesel currently on the market for upwards of 1.50 Euros per litre in Germany, this would make the fuel extremely competitive...

Biodiesel from biomass requires that the plants be grown, harvested, processed, refined and converted to diesel. It's a relatively complex process and where would the plants be grown?

With this synthetic process, there is no large amount of waste byproduct that has to be disposed of.

The main problems with the process that I can see are a source of cheap energy (that need not be continuous) and a source of pure water. These are not insurmountable problems.

Hi Bam

I wish some one would offer me squillions to do some research on the selection of algae for carbon capture.

While working in the mines I noticed that where ever we built a pond algae would soon colonise, didn't seem to mater how saline the water was.

There is probably a huge spread of genetic variability in our wild algaes

if we could harvest them, and select the traits we were looking for, perhaps we could utilise saline ponds (which we have in excess) to soak up some CO2 from the exhausts of our power plants.
Perhaps the algae could be harvested via pumps and filters, the hydrocarbons removed from them and the waste returned to the saline ponds as a nutrient for more algae.

I see this as one possible stopgap measure until we can move a bit further away from our carbon economy.

Mike, check this out. Algae fuel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

This sounds a bit like a hoax to me. Bam, how reliable is the source for this report?

The report is reliable and is widely reported. The technology has been around for years. It's amazing that they can produce it so cheaply though.

This is the most encouraging news I've seen for a long time.

Not to diss what looks like very exciting technology if feasible, but did anyone else giggle when they read this?:


Wolseley wrote on Apr 28^th, 2015 at 11:21pm:

Minister of Research, Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka...

Check back through the posts. You will find similar comments. I hope you graduate from Primary School.

miketrees wrote on Apr 30^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

Hi Bam I wish some one would offer me squillions to do some research on the selection of algae for carbon capture. While working in the mines I noticed that where ever we built a pond algae would soon colonise, didn't seem to mater how saline the water was. There is probably a huge spread of genetic variability in our wild algaes if we could harvest them, and select the traits we were looking for, perhaps we could utilise saline ponds (which we have in excess) to soak up some CO2 from the exhausts of our power plants. Perhaps the algae could be harvested via pumps and filters, the hydrocarbons removed from them and the waste returned to the saline ponds as a nutrient for more algae. I see this as one possible stopgap measure until we can move a bit further away from our carbon economy.

Algae is indeed a viable source of biodiesel, if you have the right strains. Some algae can be as much as 50% oils by mass.

Widescale Biodiesel Production from Algae (originally published by University of New Hampshire (US) Biodiesel Group)

What is probably not viable is the idea of growing plants like canola for biodiesel, especially if those plants require arable land.

Thanks IV and Bam

Got to be careful when scientists design things, they can over complicate things.

They need a farmer on the team, that can grow algae in the most simple and cheap way.

Our North West would be perfect for growing algae, the only thing missing might be the CO2.

miketrees wrote on May 2^nd, 2015 at 12:01pm:

Thanks IV and Bam Got to be careful when scientists design things, they can over complicate things. They need a farmer on the team, that can grow algae in the most simple and cheap way. Our North West would be perfect for growing algae, the only thing missing might be the CO2.

I have been considering WA's potential for producing artificial fuels for some time. Biodiesel from algae or synthetic diesel by Sunfire's process could both be produced there. As long as the equipment is robust enough to survive an occasional direct hit from a cyclone, WA could be on a winner.

We just need to overcome the Liberal Luddites who insist on a 19th-century approach to energy. ("Coal first"? Really?)

miketrees wrote on May 2^nd, 2015 at 12:01pm:

Got to be careful when scientists design things, they can over complicate things. They need a farmer on the team, that can grow algae in the most simple and cheap way.

The right method needs to be chosen. Algae for biodiesel cannot always be grown in open ponds because it can be contaminated with undesirable strains of wild algae. Weeds can occur with algae too.

Kelp is a viable alternative. It's very vigorous and easy to grow. It may even offer side benefits - kelp beds attract marine life and could be a boon for commercial fishing by providing shelter for growing fish.

kelp beds attract marine life and could be a boon for commercial fishing by providing shelter for growing fish.

I want to use something that has been degraded or is seen as having no value, old mine sites,

While messing with the ocean has some potential down sides.

miketrees wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 10:59am:

kelp beds attract marine life and could be a boon for commercial fishing by providing shelter for growing fish. I want to use something that has been degraded or is seen as having no value, old mine sites, While messing with the ocean has some potential down sides.

There is no reason why we can't do both.

Kelp Forest

Quote:

Kelp forests are underwater areas with a high density of kelp. They are recognized as one of the most productive and dynamic ecosystems on Earth.

rabbitoh08 wrote on Apr 30^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

Not to diss what looks like very exciting technology if feasible, but did anyone else giggle when they read this?: Wolseley wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:21pm: Minister of Research, Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka...

I am sure that a number of people probably did, but that is her name and, as the information I posted was a press release from Audi, I can't imagine that it would be a hoax.