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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Extremism Exposed >> islam and human sacrifice http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434436348 Message started by moses on Jun 16^th, 2015 at 4:32pm

Title: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 16^th, 2015 at 4:32pm

muslims practice ritualistic animal blood sacrifice by invoking allah's name while inhumanely cutting an animal's throat.

muslims invoke the name of allah while performing ritualistic slaughter of human beings also.

Both of the above are blood sacrifices to allah.

One is animal, one is human.

Today in the 21st century muslims are performing human sacrifice.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jun 16^th, 2015 at 7:46pm

moses wrote on Jun 16^th, 2015 at 4:32pm:

ISLAM, is a murderous death cult.

And i mean, mainstream ISLAM, the very ISLAM which is inspired by the Koran, and the example [the sunna] of Mohammed, 'the messenger of Allah'.

IMAGE...

"BEHEAD ALL THOSE WHO INSULT THE PROPHET"

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.

'Aussie' moslems on a Sydney street, openly demonstrating and exposing to public view, the violent religious bigotry which ISLAM, has put into their hearts.

'Aussie' moslems on a Sydney street, openly demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion'.

Demanding the 'religious freedom', to kill people who offend them, because they do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

.

Religious fighting, Jihad, is lawful to the moslem.

Always.

'Defending ISLAM', through fighting for Allah's cause [aka Jihad], is in accordance with the 'lawful' instructions given to moslems, within the Koran.

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric
January 18, 2007
SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).

"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

......Sheik Feiz - who just two weeks ago said he felt like an "alien" in his own country - leads about 4000 followers through his Global Islamic Youth Centre in Sydney's southwest.
He also accused Australian authorities of being over-zealous in their approach to clerics like him.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

.

Jihad is lawful.

Jihad is virtuous.

Jihad = = 'virtuously' murdering those who reject ISLAM

--------- >

'Aussie' moslem, Mohamed Elomar, in Syria/Iraq.

A moslem, doing 'good works', in 'the cause of Allah'.

n.b.
Mohamed Elomar - IS A MOSLEM, WHO IS SEEKING MERELY TO 'DEFEND ISLAM'

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jun 16^th, 2015 at 7:53pm

moses wrote on Jun 16^th, 2015 at 4:32pm:

ISLAM, is a murderous death cult.

And i mean, mainstream ISLAM, the very ISLAM which is inspired by the Koran, and by the example [the sunna] of Mohammed, 'the messenger of Allah'.

.

IMAGE.....

IMAGE.....

These Egyptian Christians are being 'lawfully' executed by moslems in Libya.

By moslems who are following mainstream ISLAMIC doctrine to lawfully kill 'criminals'.

And the 'crime' of these Christians ?

Was rejecting ISLAM. !!!

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by wally1 on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 1:15pm

Didnt abraham sacrifice his son?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Honky on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Honky on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Honky on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Then in that case, you're just plain wrong.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:26pm

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Then in that case, you're just plain wrong.

Most of the major Christian sects practice the Sacrifice of Christ on their altar...

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Honky on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:26pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Then in that case, you're just plain wrong.

Most of the major Christian sects practice the Sacrifice of Christ on their altar...

Oh so it's "most" now, and no mention of cannibalism anymore?

Keep sliding.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:46pm

The apologists will come out of the wood work now, desperately trying to equate muslims slaughtering human beings while invoking the name of their satanic allah, (human sacrifice).

With

Christians who celebrate life and faith as the true path. Their faith decrees that Christ rose from the grave, they celebrate with a token remembrance of the living Saviour, (a wafer and a sip of wine).

So we have

Christians ceremonially practicing and celebrating life and faith,their entire religious doctrine is founded on The living Christ.

Conversely

muslims on a daily basis around the globe ritually practice human sacrifice (slaughtering their fellow man while invoking the name of the demonic allah, in order to appease this satanic entity)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:01pm

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:26pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Then in that case, you're just plain wrong.

Most of the major Christian sects practice the Sacrifice of Christ on their altar...

Oh so it's "most" now, and no mention of cannibalism anymore?

Keep sliding.

No sliding, just clarification. Cannibalism still occurs, in a ritual form. You are asked to partake of the body and blood of Christ. ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Honky on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:03pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:01pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:26pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Then in that case, you're just plain wrong.

Most of the major Christian sects practice the Sacrifice of Christ on their altar...

Oh so it's "most" now, and no mention of cannibalism anymore?

Keep sliding.

No sliding, just clarification. Cannibalism still occurs, in a ritual form. You are asked to partake of the body and blood of Christ. ::)

In Catholicism, yes.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:03pm

moses wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses? ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:39pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:03pm:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses? ::)

Completely deny it.

Transmogrify means shape shifting, changing into a different, grotesque shape or appearance. The bread and the wine do no such thing. Your insistence on cannibalism and human sacrifice in Christianity is bizarre.

If the bread and wine did transmogrify, you may talk about cannibalism but the don't. And Christ is not killed or sacrificed again and again. You are an idiot for suggesting it and you do it just to be once more a spineless squishy apologist for actual evil deed.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 9:45pm

Transmogrification or transubstantiation are:

Quote:

the change whereby, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ.[1][2] The Catholic Church teaches that the substance or reality of the bread is changed into that of the body of Christ and the substance of the wine into that of his blood,[3] while all that is accessible to the senses (the outward appearances - species[4][5][6] in Latin) remains unchanged.[7]:1413[8] What remains unaltered is also referred to as the "accidents" of the bread and wine,[9] but this term is not used in the official definition of the doctrine by the Council of Trent.[10] The manner in which the change occurs, the Catholic Church teaches, is a mystery: "The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ."[7]:1333

The Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, and Church of the East have sometimes used the term "transubstantiation" (metousiosis); however, terms such as "divine mystery", "trans-elementation" (μεταστοιχείωσις metastoicheiosis), "re-ordination" (μεταρρύθμισις metarrhythmisis), or simply "change" (μεταβολή) are more common among them, and they consider the Eucharist with its change from bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ a "Mystery". Eastern Catholic Churches in communion with the Holy See likewise prefer such terms and see them in accord with the teaching expressed by the term "transubstantiation", which likewise denotes an actual change, a "becoming", as opposed to the mere addition of a new symbolic significance expressed in "to be for us the body and blood of Christ".[11][12]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Transubstantiation]Source[/url]

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 1:14pm

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses?

Most definitely. The bread and wine undergo no physical change whatsoever.

They have a spiritual connotation, they are used in remembrance of Christ (Luke 22:19 & 1 Corinthians 11:24)

Remembrance being the operative word in the sacrament

from the dictionary:

remembrance:

1/.The ability to recall past occurrences

2/.A recognition of meritorious service

So the bread and wine is used to recall the deeds of Christ or to recognize his meritorious service to mankind, (plus the fact that he is now the living Saviour).

I see you quote the catholic church as your example, I would remind you that the catholic church was able to justify the inquisition also, to themselves.

So the facts remain the same:

Christians ceremonially practicing and celebrating life and faith,by remembering Christ who they believe is God / Son / Holy Ghost, their living Redeemer.

Conversely

muslims on a daily basis around the globe ritually practice human sacrifice (slaughtering their fellow man while invoking the name of the demonic allah, in order to appease this satanic islamic entity)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 6:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 9:45pm:

Transmogrification or transubstantiation are:

... not the same thing.

Be gracious enough to accept it when it is pointed out to you, Brain.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 10:17pm

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:01pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:26pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:22pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

Christianity we should remember practices ritualised Human Sacrifice and Cannibalism at every service they hold, people... ::)

does it?

"This is the body of Christ, this is the blood of Christ..." ::)

Ahh. You mean Catholicism. ::)

I mean Christianity... ::)

Then in that case, you're just plain wrong.

Most of the major Christian sects practice the Sacrifice of Christ on their altar...

Oh so it's "most" now, and no mention of cannibalism anymore?

Keep sliding.

No sliding, just clarification. Cannibalism still occurs, in a ritual form. You are asked to partake of the body and blood of Christ. ::)

In Catholicism, yes.

That’s strange. Most Protestant churches practice Holy Communion too. I always did as a kid in an Anglican church.

Even the Salvos practice Communion. They use red cordial for blood.

We drank wine.

In vino veritas, no?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 10:24pm

moses wrote on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses?

Most definitely. The bread and wine undergo no physical change whatsoever.

Never claimed they did. I am merely making the point this is what many Christians believe, Moses, nothing more. ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 22^nd, 2015 at 8:32pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

moses wrote on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses?

Most definitely. The bread and wine undergo no physical change whatsoever.

Never claimed they did.

You most certainly did. You talked about transmogrification of the bread and wine:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:03pm:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses? ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by gandalf on Jun 23^rd, 2015 at 8:23pm

Human sacrifice?

Pfft - don't be so dramatic. You make it sound like some cultic ritual - me, I just like break my fast on a few kufar kids. In fact I've got a couple of babies on the barby right now. Plenty to go round - everyone's welcome.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 23^rd, 2015 at 8:35pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2015 at 8:23pm:

Stop playing to their stereotypes, G. It isn't becoming of you...

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 2:21pm

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT

muslims slaughtering humans to appease the demonic allah

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 2:26pm

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

Catholics partaking of their transubstantiated saviour to appease their beliefs. ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 3:04pm

Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual.

muslims invoke the name of the satanic allah, then slaughter humans as an appeasement to this demonic deity.

Now the apologists are in a spin, citing people taking a sip of wine or cordial and a small wafer as their excuse for islamic 21st century human sacrifice.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 6:42pm

moses wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

Who's excused anything, Moses?

You seem to think my charges against Christianity for its ritualised cannibalism excuses the Islamists for what they have done. Au contraire! It happens in parallel. If you're going to make bullshit lies up about Muslims, why can't similar things be said about Christians? Mmmm? ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 8:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2015 at 8:23pm:

Muslim hospitality for ya.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 8:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 6:42pm:

moses wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

When criticising Islam, why do we also have to criticise everyone else at the same time for the criticism of Islam to be valid? Why can't we SPECIFICALLY be critical of Islam?
When the Catholic Church is criticised for its history of pedophile priests, NOBODY is saying or would accept a deflection like , 'Hey, look over there, pedophile imams and followers of Mohammed or Buddha or whatever'.

Why can't Muslims simply face and address criticisms of Islam on the merit of those criticism?? Why the immediate deflection to Jews and Christians and others INSTEAD of addressing the criticism?? Just bloody well own up to the short-comings of Islam and Mohammed. Enough of the endless arse-covering deflection and yea but no but nonsense.

Muslims, demonstrate some self-awareness and take on board valid criticisms of Islam - not of your rival sects but of Islam itself. After all, Muslims need to reform Islam, not anyone else.
And if you think it's fine and dandy as it and should not be criticised on any account - say so. But the endless 'what about others' response to every criticism of Islam is deeply and calculatedly dishonest and so unacceptable.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 9:01pm

Soren wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2015 at 8:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

moses wrote on Jun 18^th, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses?

Most definitely. The bread and wine undergo no physical change whatsoever.

Never claimed they did.

You most certainly did. You talked about transmogrification of the bread and wine:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 17^th, 2015 at 3:03pm:

So, you deny that the Wafer and the Wine are Transmogrified into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Priest/Pastor/Minister, Moses? ::)

Brain, please explain.

We know you are hiding but you can come out now and explain.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 12:24am

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 6:42pm:

moses wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

Why do Christians avoid the criticisms made of their religion all the time, Soren? Mmmm? ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 3:30pm

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

Who's excused anything, Moses?

You always do, by fallaciously trying to equate Christian ritual using wine or cordial and a small wafer, as being exactly the same as muslims actually slaughtering human beings in the cruelest manner possible, to appease the demonic allah.

Quote:

You seem to think my charges against Christianity for its ritualised cannibalism excuses the Islamists for what they have done. Au contraire! It happens in parallel. If you're going to make bullshit lies up about Muslims, why can't similar things be said about Christians? Mmmm?

The same words can be used to answer your above defence of islamic human sacrifice: You're fallaciously trying to equate Christian ritual using wine or cordial and a small wafer, as being exactly the same as muslims actually slaughtering human beings in the cruelest manner possible, to appease the demonic allah.

(Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual.

muslims invoke the name of the satanic allah, then slaughter humans as an appeasement to this demonic deity.)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 3:49pm

moses wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 3:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote:[quote]

(Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual.

I'm glad you've sorted that one out, Moses. You've read the Koran and the Ahadith. I'm just curious - where does it demand human sacrifice to a demonic deity?

Please forgive such spineless Muslim appeasement by daring to ask such a theological question.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 4:06pm

There are many verses which have been quoted time and time again, demanding muslims slay and be slain in the cause of allah.

How can a muslim obey the above commands?

They slaughter people as an appeasement to the satanic allah, human sacrifice plain and simple.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 5:17pm

moses wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Sorry, Moses, I think you’ve misunderstood. I sked about human sacrifice to Allah, not defensive measures to protect people.

If you don’t mind saying, which verses support this? If you give me the numbers, I’ll look it up.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 12:24am:

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 6:42pm:

moses wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

Why do Christians avoid the criticisms made of their religion all the time, Soren? Mmmm? ::)

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 12:00am

moses wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 3:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

Who's excused anything, Moses?

Care to quote where I have done that, Moses? ::)

Quote:

[quote]You seem to think my charges against Christianity for its ritualised cannibalism excuses the Islamists for what they have done. Au contraire! It happens in parallel. If you're going to make bullshit lies up about Muslims, why can't similar things be said about Christians? Mmmm?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:23pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

The answer remains unchanged:

There are many verses which have been quoted time and time again, demanding muslims slay and be slain in the cause of allah.

How can a muslim obey the above commands?

They slaughter people as an appeasement to the satanic allah, human sacrifice plain and simple.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:23pm

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

Care to quote where I have done that, Moses?

Just look at any of your excuses in this thread alone

Quote:

And who's name do Christians invoke when they make their ritual cannibalistic sacrifice, Moses?

Their living Saviour. While partaking of a sip of wine / cordial and a wafer.

muslims invoke the satanic name of allah while slaughtering human beings in the cruelest manner possible, as an appeasement to the demonic allah. (an unassailable example of muslims performing islamic human sacrifice in the 21st century)

Tell us again how there's no difference between the two.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:42pm

moses wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:23pm:

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

So how do you account for the calls to slay God’s enemies in the Old Testament, Moses?

The Jews were even ordered to cut off their enemies’ foreskins and offer them to Yahweh. King David created a pile of foreskins on one battlefield that went into the thousands - all offered to Jehova using ritualistic prayers.

The Judeo-Christian religion was born with God’s command to Abraham to kill his own son. Is all this human sacrifice too?

I’m keen to know what you think, Moses.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 3:10pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

The Judeo-Christian religion was born with God’s command to Abraham to kill his own son. Is all this human sacrifice too?

I’m keen to know what you think, Moses.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 3:45pm

:o
moses wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 3:10pm:

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Still living in the ancient past to excuse 21st century atrocities by muslims?

The O.T. is a record of the covenant between Y.H.W.H. and the Jews. From memory the last book of the O.T. was written about 500 B.C.

I also believe that the Jews have moved on from the ancient barbarities. (unlike your muslim killer mates)

[quote]The Judeo-Christian religion was born with God’s command to Abraham to kill his own son. Is all this human sacrifice too?

I’m keen to know what you think, Moses.

If you were fair dinkum you would make reference to the fact that the motive behind this chapter was the testing of faith. (there was no human killing Y.H.W.H. provided the ram)

It's one of the precursors in the O.T. which show the way to faith being accepted over blood sacrifices.[/quote]

That’s right, Moses. It was a testament to Abraham’s faith that he was prepared to sacrifice his own son. I believe the passage uses the term sacrifice too.

It’s good to see we agree that the Old Testament has examples of human sacrifice. Where we disagree, I think, is that religious admonitions to kill gentiles/infidels represent offerings to God/demonic entities. In the Bible, killing gentiles, taking their land and wives as slaves to "please God" is not a form of human sacrifice. It's taking care of God's chosen people.

What the Abraham story represents is the historical shift away from human sacrifice. The covenant of Abraham and the rite of circumcision are about sacrificing one’s male children and slave’s blood in the place of their lives.

Previously, it was common in times of famine or war to sacrifice a male child. The covenant of Abraham changes this to a symbolic offering of flesh. The other sacrifice Jews make is the blood of lambs during passover. This is to appease God and prevent the death of first born sons from disease.

Christians, of course, moved away from circumcision and blood sacrifice entirely. Within Christianity, baptism and Holy Communion perform this function. While Communion references blood, it is not a form of symbolic sacrifice as circumcision is for Jews. Communion is about becoming one with the spiritual flesh and blood of Christ.

Islam has no sacrificial equivalent whatsoever. The commitment Muslims make to Allah is verbal. This is why Islam is often represented by a book. Islam seeks to move away from the blood rituals of Judaism and toward a religious practice based on prayer. Islam also moved away from the notion of a race of people or a nation, so the symbolism of blood is absent. Muhammed sought to unite disparate tribes, and at the same time allowed them their own cultural identities.

The narrative of Islam today continues this. Those who do the Haj are encouraged to see beyond the differences in other Muslims’ racial and cultural features. They are encouraged to see just how different Muslims can look, but similtaneously adhere (allegedly) to the same core values. Like Jews, Muslims practice circumcision, but they don't do this as a blood offering. They do so because Muhammed was allegedly "born" circumcised. Circumcision, for Muslims, is not part of a "blood covenant" with God.

So, if I may, I ask again: how do Muslims practice the blood sacrifice that we agree is an important part of Judaism?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 4:11pm

Karnal,

I can't link circumcision and blood sacrifice.

My understanding is based on the discourse between Y.H.W.H. and Abraham in Genesis 17.

Genesis 17:

Quote:

17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

So God established a covenant with Abraham, all male children were to be circumcised as a token of this covenant.

muslims still practice animal blood sacrifice at the Feast of Sacrifice held at Mecca during the pilgrimage and simultaneously in every moslem community.

By definition muslims also practice human sacrifice today in the 21st century.

Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual.

muslims invoke allah's favour before they kill (in the most degenerate way possible) some unfortunate human / humans.

muslims believe they are doing allah's will by this slaughter.

muslims believe that allah will give them a greater reward in paradise for these slayings.

Human sacrifice by any other name is still human sacrifice. muslims are practicing it on a daily basis around the globe.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm

moses wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 4:11pm:

Karnal,

I can't link circumcision and blood sacrifice.

My understanding is based on the discourse between Y.H.W.H. and Abraham in Genesis 17.

Genesis 17:

Quote:

I’m sorry, Moses, but Muslims don’t sacrifice animals at Mecca. Muslims kill animals for food. They don’t kill animals to offer to deities.

As for human sacrifice, by your definition many in the military would be guilty of this. Almost every religious person (and many non-religious) prays before going into battle.

Muslims don’t believe they will get rewards in paradise for killing. They believe they get rewarded for dying..

The only sacrifice Muslims partake in is self sacrifice. Like the early Christians, Muslims believe in martyrdom. Dying as part of a cause is held in high esteem in.both religions, but even in the secular world.

Every night at 7pm, RSL clubs dim their lights and say the Remembrance. This "prayer" honours those who fought in past wars. It’s not religious, but those fallen comrades are secular martyrs in the defence of our empire/nation.

The self-sacrifice of martyrdom is no different.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:12pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm:

moses wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 4:11pm:

Karnal,

I can't link circumcision and blood sacrifice.

My understanding is based on the discourse between Y.H.W.H. and Abraham in Genesis 17.

Genesis 17:

Quote:

I’m sorry, Moses, but Muslims don’t sacrifice animals at Mecca. Muslims kill animals for food. They don’t kill animals to offer to deities.

As for human sacrifice, by your definition many in the military would be guilty of this. Almost every religious person (and many non-religious) prays before going into battle.

Muslims don’t believe they will get rewards in paradise for killing. They believe they get rewarded for dying..

The only sacrifice Muslims partake in is self sacrifice. Like the early Christians, Muslims believe in martyrdom. Dying as part of a cause is held in high esteem in.both religions, but even in the secular world.

Every night at 7pm, RSL clubs dim their lights dim and say the Remembrance. This "prayer" honours those who fought in past wars. It’s not religious, but those fallen comrades are secular martyrs in the defence of our empire/nation.

The self-sacrifice of martyrdom is no different.

Well matty muslims do kill because it is the will of allah however as written in the so called word of allah in the quran.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:23pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Hi Matty , if you are doing it to appease or as an order from that mythical deity it would be a sacrifice to that particular mythical deity.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:31pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Hi Matty , if you are doing it to appease or as an order from that mythical deity it would be a sacrifice to that particular mythical deity.

Your definition means that every soldier acting under orders to kill engages in human sacrifice.

What do you think of our boys’ work over in Iraq, Matty? Blood sacrifice?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:52pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:31pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Hi Matty , if you are doing it to appease or as an order from that mythical deity it would be a sacrifice to that particular mythical deity.

Your definition means that every soldier acting under orders to kill engages in human sacrifice.

What do you think of our boys’ work over in Iraq, Matty? Blood sacrifice?

Thanks for your response Matty, I think we should have no boys in iraq at all and we should let the angry and upset muslims top each other and then bomb whoever wins into oblivion and make the world a more loving place without their seething hatred propagating anymore.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 8:35pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:31pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Hi Matty , if you are doing it to appease or as an order from that mythical deity it would be a sacrifice to that particular mythical deity.

Your definition means that every soldier acting under orders to kill engages in human sacrifice.

What do you think of our boys’ work over in Iraq, Matty? Blood sacrifice?

Sorry, Matty, are you saying our boys in Iraq are, indeed, engaging in a form of human.sacrifice?

I’m keen to know what you think.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:09pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 8:35pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:31pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Hi Matty , if you are doing it to appease or as an order from that mythical deity it would be a sacrifice to that particular mythical deity.

Your definition means that every soldier acting under orders to kill engages in human sacrifice.

What do you think of our boys’ work over in Iraq, Matty? Blood sacrifice?

Sorry, Matty, are you saying our boys in Iraq are, indeed, engaging in a form of human.sacrifice?

I’m keen to know what you think.

To which god Matty ?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:09pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 8:35pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:31pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Thanks, Matty. Would you go as far as to say that the state executions and killing in battle the Koran mentions constitute human sacrifice?

Hi Matty , if you are doing it to appease or as an order from that mythical deity it would be a sacrifice to that particular mythical deity.

Your definition means that every soldier acting under orders to kill engages in human sacrifice.

What do you think of our boys’ work over in Iraq, Matty? Blood sacrifice?

Sorry, Matty, are you saying our boys in Iraq are, indeed, engaging in a form of human.sacrifice?

I’m keen to know what you think.

To which god Matty ?

To God, King and Cuntry.

If you’d ever been in the army, you’d know exactly what I mean. There are still toasts to this. They mention it on parade.

This is exactly what Mr Abbott wants to bring to society at large. The difference, I guess, is that soldiers are paid to listen to it. And like footballers mouthing the words to the national.anthem before a game, soldiers do what they’re told.
God is an integral part of every army I’ve ever encountered. The Krauts used to put Him on their belt buckles: "Gott mit uns". The Yanks are even worse.

The more risky the task, the more you’ll hear about God. This is the way it has always been. Always, absolutely, never ever.

Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:45pm

And not just God, but alcohol and prostitution.

I don’t care how religious an army is. They all encourage p1ssing your field pay away on.boozing and f cking.

A poor soldier is a compliant soldier. Add God and you’re away.

Only when.men come back does the hypocrisy of the whole game become so bleedingly obvious.

When you’re a kid, you don’t think so much.

Eh, Matty?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:59pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:09pm:

To which god Matty ?

To God, King and Cuntry.

Which God is that ? It sounds like a toast to God King and Country.

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

If you’d ever been in the army, you’d know exactly what I mean. There are still toasts to this. They mention it on parade.

Ah that's a toast not a human sacrifice.

So they don't say they will sacrifice humans to god then. Or kill in the name of allah.

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

This is exactly what Mr Abbott wants to bring to society at large.

What, toasting, big deal.

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

The difference, I guess, is that soldiers are paid to listen to it. And like footballers mouthing the words to the national.anthem before a game, soldiers do what they’re told.

Of course they do they are in the army its pretty simple really. Its a job.

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

God is an integral part of every army I’ve ever encountered.

Lol how many armies was that the American Army with soldiers that follow a plethora of guds. Sorry try harder the American army is a governments army not a religious army you seem confused.

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

The Krauts used to put Him on their belt buckles: "Gott mit uns". The Yanks are even worse.

Hmm Army of the United States follows which god again ?

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

The more risky the task, the more you’ll hear about God.

I think your starting to dream a bit here. Which god is that ? The army mans/soldiers god ?

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:38pm:

This is the way it has always been. Always, absolutely, never ever.

Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?

Not really Matty.

So to which god do these human sacrifices go ?

Muslims kill in the name of allah we know which god they are killing for.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 10:04pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:45pm:

And not just God, but alcohol and prostitution.

I don’t care how religious an army is. They all encourage p1ssing your field pay away on.boozing and f cking.

Which movie did you see this in ?

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:45pm:

A poor soldier is a compliant soldier. Add God and you’re away.

Which army was this again ? A muslim army ? ISIS?

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:45pm:

Only when.men come back does the hypocrisy of the whole game become so bleedingly obvious.

Well there are some gullible people out there I guess. If I was in the army I know my job would be to kill people I guess. I wouldn't be under any mythological delusions.

Karnal wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 9:45pm:

When you’re a kid, you don’t think so much.

Eh, Matty?

About what Matty ? Joining the army when you become old enough ?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 10:12pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 10:04pm:

Which movie did you see this in ?

Top Gun. Your favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNPVRh0ngUo

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 11:49pm

Now now, Greggery, Matty is perfectly free to.his opinion.

He might not know what it is, but I for one, would die for Matty’s right to.find out.

I’m just pleased that, this time round, he’s come back with an.open mind.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 29^th, 2015 at 12:06am

Matty is a legend greg the spiritual force of karnals inner channeling, he usually sleeps under his bed and levitates karnal in the air late at night when he isn't sending him messages through his Ouija board.

No answer to my questions Karnal/Matty ?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Whywhyhuh on Jun 29^th, 2015 at 12:11am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 10:12pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 10:04pm:

Which movie did you see this in ?

Top Gun. Your favourite.

I am sorry greg you really do need to run along and find a gay man, perhaps karnal got the stuff from your version of top gun, ya never know your luck on an affluent message board. Fingers crossed for you.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 29^th, 2015 at 12:39am

Who knows? He might break down a lot quicker this time.

And I, for one, would fight to the death for his right to do so.

Human.sacrifice, no?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 29^th, 2015 at 3:28pm

Karnal

Quote:

I’m sorry, Moses, but Muslims don’t sacrifice animals at Mecca. Muslims kill animals for food. They don’t kill animals to offer to deities.

The Hajj is an annual islamic pilgrimage to Mecca, and a mandatory religious duty for muslims.

muslims converge on Mecca for the week of the Hajj, and perform a series of rituals: each person walks counter-clockwise seven times around the Ka'aba (the cube-shaped building and the direction of prayer for the Muslims), runs back and forth between the hills of Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, drinks from the Zamzam Well, goes to the plains of Mount Arafat to stand in vigil, spends a night in the plain of Muzdalifa, and performs symbolic stoning of the devil by throwing stones at three pillars. The pilgrims then shave their heads, perform a ritual of animal sacrifice, and celebrate the three day global festival of Eid al-Adha.

Quote:

As for human sacrifice, by your definition many in the military would be guilty of this. Almost every religious person (and many non-religious) prays before going into battle.

They pray for protection and to be safely bought home. A far cry from the compulsory killing commanded in the qur'an as the highest path a muslim can take. Plus the fanatical desire to kill and be killed in order to obey their religion. Human sacrifice pure and simple.

Quote:

Muslims don’t believe they will get rewards in paradise for killing. They believe they get rewarded for dying.

The command is to slay and be slain. (killing is part and parcel of islam) Human sacrifice.

Quote:

The only sacrifice Muslims partake in is self sacrifice. Like the early Christians, Muslims believe in martyrdom. Dying as part of a cause is held in high esteem in.both religions, but even in the secular world.

muslims bastardized the word martyr.

martyr: One who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty for refusing to renounce their religion

muslims call their depraved devotees who die while forcing islam on innocent people a martyr (just one more muslim lie.)

These killers are guaranteed paradise and the illustrious houri's with big tits.

Quote:

Every night at 7pm, RSL clubs dim their lights and say the Remembrance. This "prayer" honours those who fought in past wars. It’s not religious, but those fallen comrades are secular martyrs in the defence of our empire/nation.

The self-sacrifice of martyrdom is no different.

It is a ritual of remembrance only. There are no religious rewards.

Conversely muslim killers are assured a place in allah's paradise.

So after all the side issues. muslims kill people because their cult decrees it. The killings are prescribed as the perfect way to enter islamic paradise. (muslims slaughter human beings to appease their satanic deity allah)

muslims perform human sacrifice as a religious obligation.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 30^th, 2015 at 11:59am

Animals are killed at Eid to break the fast of Ramadan, Moses. They are not slaughtered to appease a deity, as lambs are by Jews during Passover.

The Koran states that Muslims who die doing God's work will be blessed. This can range from performing charity to doing religious pilgrimage to dying in battle to defend fellow Muslims. These are not prescriptive, even if Muslims take it as such. It has to do with a person's intent.

This is no different to what Krishna teaches Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita - a book read by Hindus that centres around a battle. It is no different to what the Buddha outlined as karma (without the belief in God). It is no different to what the Bible teaches. People reap rewards or reactions for their actions. As ye sow shall ye reap. This life is a test for the next life. Your own death is a test for the next life. Many religious people spend their last days in prayer or devotional service for this very reason.

Muslims who don't understand this are missing the point of the Koran. Why do I think this?

Because Muslims themselves have told me. This is what Islam actually teaches. The suicide-bombing/death cult version is false religion. ISIS is false religion.

Even knuckleheads like Zaky Mallah will tell you that.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jun 30^th, 2015 at 2:52pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Animals are killed at Eid to break the fast of Ramadan, Moses. They are not slaughtered to appease a deity, as lambs are by Jews during Passover.

Eid al-Adha the day where muslims sacrifice an animal for allah in honor of Abraham's willingness to kill his son.

Men, women and children are expected to dress in their finest clothing to perform Eid prayer in a large congregation in an open waqf ("stopping") field called Eidgah or mosque. Affluent muslims who can afford to, i.e. Malik-e-Nisaab, sacrifice their best halal domestic animals (usually a cow, but can also be a camel, goat, sheep or ram depending on the region) as a symbol of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son. The sacrificed animals, called aḍḥiya (Arabic: أضحية‎, also known by its Persian term, Qurbāni), have to meet certain age and quality standards or else the animal is considered an unacceptable sacrifice. This tradition accounts for the slaughter of more than 100 million animals in only two days of Eid. In Pakistan alone nearly 10 million animals are slaughtered on Eid days

It is a religious ritual of Animal Sacrifice.

Quote:

The Koran states that Muslims who die doing God's work will be blessed. This can range from performing charity to doing religious pilgrimage to dying in battle to defend fellow Muslims. These are not prescriptive, even if Muslims take it as such. It has to do with a person's intent.

This is no different to what Krishna teaches Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita - a book read by Hindus that centres around a battle. It is no different to what the Buddha outlined as karma (without the belief in God). It is no different to what the Bible teaches. People reap rewards or reactions for their actions. As ye sow shall ye reap. This life is a test for the next life. Your own death is a test for the next life. Many religious people spend their last days in prayer or devotional service for this very reason.

Muslims who don't understand this are missing the point of the Koran. Why do I think this?

Because Muslims themselves have told me. This is what Islam actually teaches. The suicide-bombing/death cult version is false religion. ISIS is false religion.

Even knuckleheads like Zaky Mallah will tell you that.

Yeah the old that's not true islam excuse.

Millions of muslims around the globe see it differently, slaughtering people with the clearest of conscience, quoting the commands of allah, the teachings and example set by muhammad, as their justification.

As I've always said the root cause of muslim atrocities is islam it'self. muslims who support the above tenets by refusing to denounce the commands, teachings and verses which engender islamic human sacrifice, support the actual depraved muslim heinousness.

While ever muslims / apologists hide behind their lies and excuses, islamic human sacrifice will reign supreme.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jun 30^th, 2015 at 10:26pm

Read your article, Moses. Animals are divided between family, friends, and the poor.

It’s not sacrifice, it’s what’s known as a feast.

I’m not sure if millions of Muslims ignore the teachings of the Koran and practice things like suicide bombing, but I doubt it. You might have a point about what Muslims think if their own texts didn’t differ from this.

You always disagree with Brain when he tells you about Joseph Kony. Jesus did not preach killing, even if he said he came to bring a sword.

If Muslims believe they’re justified to kill for their own ends, they’re not practicing Islam.

The only Muslim here will tell you this, but for some reason, you disagree.

You obviously know more. Jihadwatch, eh?

Pity they never read the Koran either.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:04pm

karnal wrote:
Quote:

Read your article, Moses. Animals are divided between family, friends, and the poor.

It’s not sacrifice, it’s what’s known as a feast.

muslims sacrifice animals – usually cow and goats but also camels, sheep and rams – during Eid and donate one part of the meat to poor people. The animal slaughtering symbolises the willingness of Ibrahim to sacrifice his son to God.

The animals have to meet certain quality standards, or their sacrifice will be considered unacceptable.

when Abraham was about to sacrifice Ishmael, allah spared the boy's life and replaced him with a lamb – which is what Abraham ultimately sacrified.

To commemorate the sacrifice, muslims sacrifice cows, lambs, goats, rams or other animals on Eid al-Adha

If the animals are nothing more than a source of food, why the religious implications E.G. to commemorate the testing of Abraham's faith, the quality of the animal or the sacrifice is unacceptable?

Quote:

I’m not sure if millions of Muslims ignore the teachings of the Koran and practice things like suicide bombing, but I doubt it. You might have a point about what Muslims think if their own texts didn’t differ from this.

Those muslims who actively participate in the actual slaughter of their fellow man as the qur'an decrees, are supported by every muslim who refuses to denounce the islamic decrees which spawn said islamic depravities. (as there are no muslims who will renounce these teachings of evil, every muslim is a passive supporter)

Quote:

You always disagree with Brain when he tells you about Joseph Kony. Jesus did not preach killing, even if he said he came to bring a sword.

Sword = the Word of God

Ephesians 6.17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Hebrews 4.12: 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Revelations 2.16: Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelations 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Quote:

If Muslims believe they’re justified to kill for their own ends, they’re not practicing Islam.

The only Muslim here will tell you this, but for some reason, you disagree.

You obviously know more. Jihadwatch, eh?

Pity they never read the Koran either.

muslims can find justification for slaughtering their fellow man in the islamic commands of jihad, hijrah, taqiyya and kitman, self alienation from normal society, hate speech, torture and murder of hypocrites / disbelievers / corrupters, a prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer etc. etc.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm

Actually, I believe sword = justice.

You’d be right if Muslims everywhere supported suicide bombing et al in the name of their faith. But they don’t. Muslims everywhere speak out against murder.

You know it, and I know it.

There is no religious justification for killing in the name of jihad alone. There is no justification for "self alienation from normal society", and certainly none for hate speech.

If you can reference otherwise, please do.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by gandalf on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

You’d be right if Muslims everywhere supported suicide bombing et al in the name of their faith. But they don’t. Muslims everywhere speak out against murder.

Believe me K - I've been asking this question for years now:

If the knuckleheads are right about Islam, why are they still in the minority?

I'm still waiting for a serious answer.

Then when confronted by one of these majority non-terrorist-supporting muslims, we are merely dismissed as liars or ignorant of our own religion. As if its far more likely that its the majority of a large mainstream religion that are fools or liars - rather than the minority of murderous extremists :P

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

You’d be right if Muslims everywhere supported suicide bombing et al in the name of their faith. But they don’t. Muslims everywhere speak out against murder.

Here's the gist of the problem, Gandy.

The 'vast majority' are ideologically indistinguishable from the 'tiny minority'. The difference is in tactics and strategy - and violence. This is exactly why the vast majoryu cannot even begin to root out the 'tiny minority'.

They are almost always 'surprised' when a 'good kid' goes and signs up with ISIS. Why? Because not even the Muslims can tell the 'vast majority' and the tiny minority' apart UNTIL AFTER the bons have been set off, the heads cut off, the captive girls raped. UNTIL THEN, there is no difference between the peace loving and the blood soaked.

So until the violence erupts, the only difference between you and them is words - and your words have zero effect on them. You do not even consider them the problem of the 'vast majority' of Muslims. You would die in a ditch pretending that ISIS has nuffin' to do wiv Islam.

Like Cameron and O'Bama and Abbott and Bush.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 7:10pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2015 at 11:59am:

Muslims who don't understand this are missing the point of the Koran. Why do I think this?

Because Muslims themselves have told me. This is what Islam actually teaches. The suicide-bombing/death cult version is false religion. ISIS is false religion.

Even knuckleheads like Zaky Mallah will tell you that.

Alas, there is no authoritative voice in Islam, so the death culters are as good Muslims as the quietists and everyone in-between.
And what is worse, they have no influence on each other - the 'vast majority' doesn't even accept that the death-cultists are an Islamic problem.

It's head-hackers versus arse-coverers. The forehead to the ground, arse in the air ritual makes sudden semiotic sense - what is your highest point, oh Muslim, your head or your arse?

You must love all those prayer pictures, PB.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 9:58pm

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

You’d be right if Muslims everywhere supported suicide bombing et al in the name of their faith. But they don’t. Muslims everywhere speak out against murder.

The only difference between anyone, dear boy, is words. Words betray intentions, and intentions reveal the soul.

I know this is not the Freudian view, but that’s just me.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 12:49am

Karnal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

Bull S.

Moslems everywhere speak out against only one thing; the persecution [inclusive of murder also] of those persons from their own camp.

ISLAM teaches moslems, that moslems [exclusively] should be mourned, when something 'bad' happens to them [moslems].

For example can you show me any ISLAMIC texts which contradict this moslem opinion vis-a-vis moslems and disbelievers ???? ------- >

The example of a moslem community leader,, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

FIRST speaking publicly ------- >

Quote:

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.

BUT, NOW LISTEN TO THE EXACT SAME MOSLEM - SPEAKING [PRIVATELY] TO A GROUP OF MOSLEMS ------- >

Quote:

Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that

he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent:

Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

.

Karnal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

There is no religious justification for killing in the name of jihad alone....

If you can reference otherwise, please do.

STRAIGHT FROM ALLAH'S MOUTH

------------- >

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

STRAIGHT FROM THE PROPHETS MOUTH

------------- >

"I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid [religious fighter] in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.046

In the Hadith verse above, Mohammed is reported as saying that for a moslem, religious fighting, is the same as a religious devotion.
i.e. Jihad [religious fighting], is as if a muslim 'fasts and prays continuously'.
And in Koran 9.111, Allah guarantees that a Mujahid [religious fighter] will enter Paradise, if he is killed, while seeking to kill Allah's enemies.

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari/ #001.002.025
see also,
hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.080i
hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.196

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.025

.

MURDERING DISBELIEVERS IS LAWFUL

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:16am

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

You’d be right if Muslims everywhere supported suicide bombing et al in the name of their faith. But they don’t. Muslims everywhere speak out against murder.

Here's the gist of the problem, Gandy.

The 'vast majority' are ideologically indistinguishable from the 'tiny minority'. The difference is in tactics and strategy - and violence. This is exactly why the vast majoryu cannot even begin to root out the 'tiny minority'.

They are almost always 'surprised' when a 'good kid' goes and signs up with ISIS.

Why?

Because not even the Muslims can tell the 'vast majority' and the tiny minority' apart UNTIL AFTER the bombs have been set off, the heads cut off, the captive girls raped.

UNTIL THEN, there is no difference between the peace loving and the blood soaked.

So until the violence erupts, the only difference between you and them is words - and your words have zero effect on them. You do not even consider them the problem of the 'vast majority' of Muslims. You would die in a ditch pretending that ISIS has nuffin' to do wiv Islam.

Like Cameron and O'Bama and Abbott and Bush.

Exactly so.

S,

This too, exposes a dichotomy - that we can see, is [or can be!!!!] exploited by EVERY moslem [living/resident in the West].

And that dichotomy is;

1/ That every single moslem [living/resident in the West] can claim to be a part of the 'peaceful majority', and can, and will, even disparage those 'extremist' moslem 'impersonators', who are bringing ISLAM into disrepute [i.e. those 'extremist' moslem, who are 'damaging' the 'interests' of the guest moslem community.].

2/ But as soon as that very same individual 'activates' himself, and becomes an active jihadi [e.g. he stabs a cop, or he travels to join IS in Syria, or he travels to Somalia, etc, etc], and participates in 'righteous' moslem ~~violence~~ atrocities against 'disbelievers', he always THEN will justify his actions, using ISLAMIC doctrines and texts!!!

.

IMAGE....

'Aussie' moslem, Mohamed Elomar, in Syria/Iraq.

Quote:

'Whosoever dies without participating in an expedition (jihad) nor having the intention to do so, dies on a branch of hypocrisy,'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2632768/Brisbane-woman-charged-supporting-terrorism-whilst-Australian-husband-fights-Syria-member-brutal-militant-group.html
- Australian moslem, Mohamed Elomar, quoting ISLAMIC scripture

Google;
"Allah's Messenger said" "Whosoever dies without participating"

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:52am

Yadda wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:16am:

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:21pm:

And the exact reverse of that dichotomy, is also exhibited by the mendacious moslem.

e.g.

Quote:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

------ >

NOW LISTEN TO THE EXACT SAME MOSLEM AS HE SPEAKS TO A NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - WHO HAVE BECOME AWARE OF HIS PREVIOUS STATEMENTS

Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood;

Quote:

"The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"...

"I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said.

"We denounce that.

This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-were-misunderstood.html

.

You know, these moslems are very, very, duplicitous, and deceitful people.

!!!!!

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by BachToTheFuture on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 10:55am

Yadda wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:52am:

And the exact reverse of that dichotomy, is also exhibited by the mendacious moslem.

Yadda, you're going to need to clarify your thoughts a little more. When you say "exact reverse", which way are you reversing it? Do you perhaps mean the converse, or to contra-distinguish it?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:28pm

MumboJumbo wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 10:55am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:52am:

And the exact reverse of that dichotomy, is also exhibited by the mendacious moslem.

When you say "exact reverse", which way are you reversing it?

Do you perhaps mean the converse, or to contra-distinguish it?

Easy...

SITU #1
Firstly; "ISLAM is peace. ISLAM is a peaceful and tolerant faith." <---- What is coming out of the lips of Mohamed Elomar clones - HERE IN AUSTRALIA, TODAY!!!
Secondly; "Jihad is virtuous!!!" 'Whosoever dies without participating in an expedition (jihad) nor having the intention to do so, dies on a branch of hypocrisy,', Mohamed Elomar, quoting ISLAMIC scripture

example; http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434436348/74#74

SITU #2 [the exact reverse]
Firstly; "Jihad is virtuous!!!" "We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom." - 'Aussie' moslem, Sheik Feiz Mohammed
Secondly; "ISLAM is peace. ISLAM is a peaceful and tolerant faith." - 'Aussie' moslem, Sheik Feiz Mohammed

example; http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434436348/75#75

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:38pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... ::)

This from a spineless, squishy, unprincipled apologist.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 11:56pm

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... ::)

This from a spineless, squishy, unprincipled apologist.

Thanks for reverting to type, Soren. You have no idea how much I've missed your ad hominem attacks. ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 10:04am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... ::)

Yes - the principle is that you discuss differences and use your words and your ability to reason - not your fist or your guns or suicide vests.

That's the privciple we are discussing - and which you miss completely.
You do NOT have to submit to views you disagree withg - but disagreement doesn't authorise your violence, your beheadings and murderous rioting.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:45pm

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... ::)

Amazing how you keep moving the goalposts, Soren, particularly after you've been proven wrong again. ::)

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:45pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... ::)

Amazing how you keep moving the goalposts, Soren, particularly after you've been proven wrong again. ::)

Explain, Brain, I dare you.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:02pm

Karnal wrote Reply #68 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 5:40pm :
Quote:

There is no religious justification for killing in the name of jihad alone. There is no justification for "self alienation from normal society", and certainly none for hate speech.

If you can reference otherwise, please do.

Here are some examples:

muslims are to invade and thieve their victims lands and possessions: qur'an 8:41: qur'an 33:27:

A prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer: qur'an 8.67:

Jihad and islamic slaughter:
qur'an 4.95:qur'an 48.17: qur'an 2.216: qur'an 2.244: qur'an 3.142: qur'an 3.151:qur'an 3.157: qur'an 3.158: qur'an 3.169:
qur'an 3.195: qur'an 4.74: qur'an 4.76: qur'an 4.95: qur'an 5.35: qur'an 5.54: qur'an 8.65:qur'an 9.014: qur'an 9.20: qur'an 9.24: qur'an 9.29: qur'an 9.39: qur'an 9.41: qur'an 9.88: qur'an 9.111: qur'an 33.23 qur'an 47.4: qur'an 47.35: qur'an 49.15:qur'an 61.4:
qur'an 61.11: qur'an 66.9:

Hijrah or emigrating to slaughter in the cause of allah:
qur'an 2.218: qur'an 3.195: qur'an 4.100: qur'an 8.72:
qur'an 8.74: qur'an 8.75: qur'an 9.20: qur'an 22.58:

taqiyya and kitman:.qur'an 3.28: qur'an 16.106: qur'an 9.3:
qur'an 66.2: qur'an 2. 225:

muslims commanded to alienate themselves from normal society:,
qur'an 5.51: qur'an 5.80: qur'an 3.28: qur'an 9.23:qur'an 53.29:

hate speech in qur'an:qur'an 98.6: qur'an 8.55:

torture and slaughter of those who cause corruption:
qur'an 5.32: qur'an 5.33:

Who causes corruption so muslims can torture and murder them?
qur'an 2.8: qur'an 2.10: qur'an 2.11: qur'an 2.12: qur'an 3.167:
qur'an 4.88: qur'an 4.89: qur'an 4.138: qur'an 4.145: qur'an 9.68:
qur'an 9.73: qur'an 9.101: qur'an 33.73: qur'an 48.6: qur'an 66.9: O
qur'an 8.67:

The muslims who are setting the agenda (rapists, torturers and mass murderers) certainly believe the above give them an assured place in paradise with a room full of big breasted houris.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:51pm

Moses, even.a brief search of the passages you’ve referenced shows the Koran says no such things.

I’m.sure you got your list from Jihadwatch or Islamthereliginofpeace, but why don’t you take the time to quote those passages next to the explanations you’ve given.

Lets have a little look-see, shall we?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Yadda on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:05am

moses,

Thanks for the Koran verses, in post #85.

FIGHTING AGAINST DISBELIEVERS IS AN OBLIGATION TO ALLAH, FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS BELIEF IN ALLAH!

-------- >

Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.
http://quran.com/2/216

"persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

"persecution [of Muslims]" = = disbelievers, resisting the will of local moslems.

"persecution [of Muslims]" = = disbelievers prosecuting moslems with their secular law.

-------- >

They ask you about the sacred month - about fighting therein. Say, "Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing." And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever - for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.
http://quran.com/2/217

Jihad is lawful, and an obligation to the moslems

-------- >

Indeed, those who have believed and those who have emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah - those expect the mercy of Allah . And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
http://quran.com/2/218

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 5:12pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

muslims are to invade and thieve their victims lands and possessions: qur'an 8:41: qur'an 33:27:

8:41:And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allâh, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masâkin (the poor) and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allâh and in that which We sent down to Our slave (Muhammad SAW) on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr) - And Allâh is Able to do all things.

You don't get war booty if you stay peacefully at home

33:27:And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden (before). And Allâh is Able to do all things.

you certainly can't stay at home peacefully if you're thieving land where you have not trodden.

A prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer: qur'an 8.67:

qur'an 8.67: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made a great slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

muhammad was a blood crazed homicidal psychopath, an inhumane mass murderer

Jihad and islamic slaughter:

qur'an 9.20: Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's cause are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

qur'an 9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

qur'an 9.39: Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.

qur'an 9.111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

All the above verses plus every other reference advocate muslims physically murdering people or being killed while trying to slaughter others. (these mass murderers are the highest grade of muslim there is)

Hijrah or emigrating to slaughter in the cause of allah:

qur'an 2.218: Indeed, those who have believed and those who have emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah - those expect the mercy of Allah . And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

qur'an 3.195: And their Lord responded to them, "Never will I allow to be lost the work of [any] worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another. So those who emigrated or were evicted from their homes or were harmed in My cause or fought or were killed - I will surely remove from them their misdeeds, and I will surely admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow as reward from Allah , and Allah has with Him the best reward."

qur'an 4.100: And whoever emigrates for the cause of Allah will find on the earth many [alternative] locations and abundance. And whoever leaves his home as an emigrant to Allah and His Messenger and then death overtakes him - his reward has already become incumbent upon Allah . And Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

qur'an 8.72: Indeed, those who have believed and emigrated and fought with their wealth and lives in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - they are allies of one another. But those who believed and did not emigrate - for you there is no guardianship of them until they emigrate. And if they seek help of you for the religion, then you must help, except against a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty. And Allah is Seeing of what you do.

qur'an 8.74: But those who have believed and emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - it is they who are the believers, truly. For them is forgiveness and noble provision.

qur'an 8.75: And those who believed after [the initial emigration] and emigrated and fought with you - they are of you. But those of [blood] relationship are more entitled [to inheritance] in the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah is Knowing of all things.

qur'an 9.20:The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah . And it is those who are the attainers [of success].

All the above plus more are the backbone of foreign muslims joining IS

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:29am

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

Quote:

qur'an 8.67: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made a great slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Muhammed is advising his followers not to kill prisoners of war.

Or this one:

Quote:

qur'an 9.20: Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's cause are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

How does this translate into Jihad and Islamic slaughter?

Or this one:

Quote:

qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

It's about banding together and being a strong team.

Academics have argued that the Koran contains two separate things: instructions on a spiritual path; and the attempt to lay down a social order in a time of unrest (including the rules of war).

The difficulty in the Koran is that these two purposes can conflict. Scholars argue that the rules of war, including things like taking slaves and killing captives relate only to Muhammed's time and place. This is the mainstream interpretation. If you ask a Muslim about these things, he'll most likely explain this to you.

The literalist tradition, including the Saudi Wahabists, takes a much harder view, but they still concede that the Koran describes rules that related specifically to Muhammed's time, and in many cases, only to Muhammed's time.

Arguing that Muslims must slaughter and kill and start wars today is like arguing Jews must kill gentiles and take their land, wives and livestock. There is actually a stronger, far more unequivocal case for this in the Torah.

But - there is a dangerous literalist tendency emerging within some quarters of Islam that is incredibly dangerous - not just to innocent civilians, but to the spiritual path Islam attempts to reveal. This tendency is exploited by political and military players, including most influentially Saudi Arabia and Iran, two oil states competing for control of the Middle East.

I'm not sure that there's a literalist tendency within Islam itself - I'm happy to be swayed either way here. There are movements and sects within Islam that are radically anti-literalist just as there is a huge fundamentalist following that is clearly on the rise.

But this tendency is exploited by political interests. Religious ideologies, it would seem, are far more powerful than the Cold War ideologies they've replaced. The fact that these interests find fertile ground in a warring state is no surprise. Families will do almost anything to protect themselves from militias, including supporting rival militias.

The fact that these interests are finding ground in the West is a huge cause for concern, and something that needs to be tackled. This is a problem most Muslim leaders and clerics want to solve. There is no way the Koran can be used to justify terrorist attacks on innocent civilians. You can point to a vague verse or two about slaying and dying, but there are equivalent verses that condemn this. Islam, like all other religions, holds that murder is a grave sin, as is suicide.

I'd be interested to discuss this with a fundamentalist Muslim who defends suicide bombing. I haven't met one yet, including the notorious Abu.

I'm sorry, Moses, you're good at getting Koran verses off Jihadwatch, but you don't come close to explaining how Muslims can justify these things to themselves.

Twisting quotes and misinterpreting the words of the Koran, of course, only assists the cause.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:55pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

Quote:

Muhammed is advising his followers not to kill prisoners of war.

Or this one:

[quote]qur'an 9.20: Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's cause are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

How does this translate into Jihad and Islamic slaughter?

Or this one:

Quote:

qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 1:32pm

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

Quote:

How does this translate into Jihad and Islamic slaughter?

Or this one:

[quote]
qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

It's about banding together and being a strong team.

Academics have argued that the Koran contains two separate things: instructions on a spiritual path; and the attempt to lay down a social order in a time of unrest (including the rules of war).

The difficulty in the Koran is that these two purposes can conflict. [/quote]
Allah is uanble to come up with divine guidance for both the spirit and society?? The eternal, unchangable book has conflicting advice?? What kind of 'only one god' is Allah if he can't even manage a straght final revelation but comes up with more confusion and contradiction than before? [/quote]

Good point. If Muslims saw the Koran as the straight, final revelation, they would hardly need all those aHadith to attempt to qualify it.

Nothing can possibly be the final revelation. No one can possibly be the final prophet. I'm okay with the fundamentals of Islam - there is no God but Allah and Muhammed is His prophet - but I can't go with the dogma that there's no other way. I don't even see how this squares with Islamic theology/cosmology itself if the universe is to be seen as the ever-unfolding, increasingly complex expression of Allah. There have to be other prophets.

Muslims and Christians both saw the final ascension as being just around the corner. So far, it's been 2000 years and the universe continues to happily unfold.

There are different paths for different people, but I do think the paths result in essentially the same thing: humility, mercy, peace. This is what submission means: submitting your ego to a well-trodden path, submitting to a higher force, giving up.

Muhammed is not a savior, he's a prophet. He's also dead. People who follow the path need people to guide them in this world - people who have walked the path, not just read about it.

You can get a few tips for life and submission from Muhammed and the Koran, but you still have to walk the path. You still need teachers to show you how. Muhammed is not the final teacher in the Muslim tradition, he's really the first - this, I gather, is what it means to be a prophet. Abraham established a covenant. Moses led his people out of slavery. Jesus led followers on a path of forgiveness and humility. Muhammed formed a society and established a rule of law.

None of this means anything, however, if you don't take the steps yourself. No blood covenant, or sacrificial salvation, or religious conversion will save you from having to walk the path and making progress on it. The rules are important in establishing a direction, but they're not the destination.

This is the mistake fundamentalists - both for and against Islam - make.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:18pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

[quote]qur'an 8.67: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made a great slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Muhammed is advising his followers not to kill prisoners of war.[/quote]

Not to kill prisoners of war? You jest surely? muhammad was always coming up with so called prophecies to excuse his own psychopathological deeds of inhumane perversion. In this case he unequivocally gives himself the right to slaughter rafts of people before taking any prisoners.

Quote:

Or this one:

[quote]qur'an 9.20: Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's cause are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

How does this translate into Jihad and Islamic slaughter?[/quote]

Just three of many

qur'an 4.74: Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the cause of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

qur'an 4.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

qur'an 9.111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

The qur'an unambiguously tells muslims their duty is to slay and be slain in the cause of allah (jihad islamic slaughter).

In the verse you quoted muslims are to leave their homes to kill or be killed in the cause of allah.

Justification for those muslims who have left home to join the islamic state pure and simple

Quote:

Or this one:

[quote]qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

It's about banding together and being a strong team.[/quote]

About banding together being a strong team while slaughtering innocent people in the cause of allah

muslims invoke the name of allah before, during and after slaughtering their fellow man. islamic human sacrifice on a daily basis somewhere on the globe

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:21pm

moses wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:18pm:

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Muhammed is advising his followers not to kill prisoners of war.

Not to kill prisoners of war? You jest surely? muhammad was always coming up with so called prophecies to excuse his own psychopathological deeds of inhumane perversion. In this case he unequivocally gives himself the right to slaughter rafts of people before taking any prisoners.

[/quote]

You haven't read the bit that comes after, Moses. Muhammed is telling others not to kill their prisoners but to release them in return for a ransom.

Do you always read books like this?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:31pm

Sell what's left after muslims have made a great slaughter in the land?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 5:16pm

moses wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:31pm:

Sell what's left after muslims have made a great slaughter in the land?

I'm not sure. Why don't you read the book and get a little context?

It's not like you don't refer to these passages in every post you write. Why don't you brush up on it for accuracy?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:34pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 1:32pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

Quote:

Allah is uanble to come up with divine guidance for both the spirit and society?? The eternal, unchangable book has conflicting advice?? What kind of 'only one god' is Allah if he can't even manage a straght final revelation but comes up with more confusion and contradiction than before? [/quote]

Good point. If Muslims saw the Koran as the straight, final revelation, they would hardly need all those aHadith to attempt to qualify it.

Nothing can possibly be the final revelation. No one can possibly be the final prophet. I'm okay with the fundamentals of Islam - there is no God but Allah and Muhammed is His prophet - but I can't go with the dogma that there's no other way. I don't even see how this squares with Islamic theology/cosmology itself if the universe is to be seen as the ever-unfolding, increasingly complex expression of Allah. There have to be other prophets.

Muslims and Christians both saw the final ascension as being just around the corner. So far, it's been 2000 years and the universe continues to happily unfold.

There are different paths for different people, but I do think the paths result in essentially the same thing: humility, mercy, peace. This is what submission means: submitting your ego to a well-trodden path, submitting to a higher force, giving up.

Muhammed is not a savior, he's a prophet. He's also dead. People who follow the path need people to guide them in this world - people who have walked the path, not just read about it.

You can get a few tips for life and submission from Muhammed and the Koran, but you still have to walk the path. You still need teachers to show you how. Muhammed is not the final teacher in the Muslim tradition, he's really the first - this, I gather, is what it means to be a prophet. Abraham established a covenant. Moses led his people out of slavery. Jesus led followers on a path of forgiveness and humility. Muhammed formed a society and established a rule of law.

None of this means anything, however, if you don't take the steps yourself. No blood covenant, or sacrificial salvation, or religious conversion will save you from having to walk the path and making progress on it. The rules are important in establishing a direction, but they're not the destination.

This is the mistake fundamentalists - both for and against Islam - make.
[/quote]
Except that there is no room for this sort of unfolding in Islam.
It would be the end of Islam if, after 14010 years, someone said that the fundamental doctrine of final revelation, final prophethood, eternal unchangable essence of the Koran was up for revision.

The fatal flaw of Islam is that it is totally unbending. It has over-represented itself from the start, thanks to Mohammed's semi-literate misunderstanding of both Judaism and Christianity.

You can't make the guy who was the best of men for 1400 years a mere man who got a lot of things wrong.

There is no Islam without Mohammed as the best of men. Islam IS Mohammedanism so there is no removing him from the scene, however embarassing and patently wrong he was. Muslims are stuck with him - hence the rioting and murdering when he is mocked and not taken seriously.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by freediver on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:11pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 5:16pm:

moses wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:31pm:

Sell what's left after muslims have made a great slaughter in the land?

I'm not sure. Why don't you read the book and get a little context?

It's not like you don't refer to these passages in every post you write. Why don't you brush up on it for accuracy?

Can you back up your claim please Karnal?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:44pm

freediver wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 5:16pm:

moses wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 3:31pm:

Sell what's left after muslims have made a great slaughter in the land?

I'm not sure. Why don't you read the book and get a little context?

It's not like you don't refer to these passages in every post you write. Why don't you brush up on it for accuracy?

Can you back up your claim please Karnal?

I thought I did, FD.

Feel free to answer my questions if you like.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:46pm

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 1:32pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

Quote:

Good point. If Muslims saw the Koran as the straight, final revelation, they would hardly need all those aHadith to attempt to qualify it.

Nothing can possibly be the final revelation. No one can possibly be the final prophet. I'm okay with the fundamentals of Islam - there is no God but Allah and Muhammed is His prophet - but I can't go with the dogma that there's no other way. I don't even see how this squares with Islamic theology/cosmology itself if the universe is to be seen as the ever-unfolding, increasingly complex expression of Allah. There have to be other prophets.

Muslims and Christians both saw the final ascension as being just around the corner. So far, it's been 2000 years and the universe continues to happily unfold.

There are different paths for different people, but I do think the paths result in essentially the same thing: humility, mercy, peace. This is what submission means: submitting your ego to a well-trodden path, submitting to a higher force, giving up.

Muhammed is not a savior, he's a prophet. He's also dead. People who follow the path need people to guide them in this world - people who have walked the path, not just read about it.

You can get a few tips for life and submission from Muhammed and the Koran, but you still have to walk the path. You still need teachers to show you how. Muhammed is not the final teacher in the Muslim tradition, he's really the first - this, I gather, is what it means to be a prophet. Abraham established a covenant. Moses led his people out of slavery. Jesus led followers on a path of forgiveness and humility. Muhammed formed a society and established a rule of law.

None of this means anything, however, if you don't take the steps yourself. No blood covenant, or sacrificial salvation, or religious conversion will save you from having to walk the path and making progress on it. The rules are important in establishing a direction, but they're not the destination.

This is the mistake fundamentalists - both for and against Islam - make.
[/quote]
Except that there is no room for this sort of unfolding in Islam.
It would be the end of Islam if, after 14010 years, someone said that the fundamental doctrine of final revelation, final prophethood, eternal unchangable essence of the Koran was up for revision.

The fatal flaw of Islam is that it is totally unbending. It has over-represented itself from the start, thanks to Mohammed's semi-literate misunderstanding of both Judaism and Christianity.

You can't make the guy who was the best of men for 1400 years a mere man who got a lot of things wrong.

There is no Islam without Mohammed as the best of men. Islam IS Mohammedanism so there is no removing him from the scene, however embarassing and patently wrong he was. Muslims are stuck with him - hence the rioting and murdering when he is mocked and not taken seriously.

[/quote]

Sorry, old boy, is this a new post?

Shurely shome mishtake.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 11:25am

Here's a Muslim elaboration of the verse in question:

Quote:

"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise." Al-Anfal 8:67

'Al-Anfal' would mean 'spoils of war.' The above verse does not at all mean to slaughter in a literal sense. But it's simply a phrase, meaning 'war' or 'fighting.' In this particular verse, "slaughter" would refer to 'an officially declared war.' It should also be kept in mind that quite many wars or 'ghazwas' that were fought in the Prophet's (pbuh) lifetime involved very little or totally no bloodshed. Even such 'wars' might be referred to as 'slaughter' because the phrase conforms with the term 'war.' Thus, in other words, Allah is simply putting a rule before the people that there can be no prisoners unless a war has officially taken place. And Allah knows best.

If you read through verses 8:67 to 8:69 quoted as follows:

"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. 8:67
Had it not been for an ordinance of Allah which had gone before, an awful doom had come upon you on account of what ye took. 8:68
Now enjoy what ye have won, as lawful and good, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." 8:69

These verses refer to the captives taken in the Battle of Badr. In verses 8:67-68 Allah states that according to His ordinance, no Prophet in the past was ever allowed to take captives or prisoners unless they participated in a complete and official warfare on the battlefield. I repeat, "made slaughter in the land" refers to the act of combat on the battlefield. Verse 8:69 confirms that the event of taking prisoners taken by the Muslims after the victory at Badr was lawful because of the ordinance of Allah which He had already established.

http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=94.0

Google: taqiyya.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 4:01pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

You haven't read the bit that comes after, Moses. Muhammed is telling others not to kill their prisoners but to release them in return for a ransom.

Do you always read books like this?

You ignore the bit that comes first, you know there must be a great slaughter in the land before taking prisoners, why is that?

Quote:

It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise." Al-Anfal 8:67

'Al-Anfal' would mean 'spoils of war.' The above verse does not at all mean to slaughter in a literal sense. But it's simply a phrase, meaning 'war' or 'fighting.' In this particular verse, "slaughter" would refer to 'an officially declared war.' It should also be kept in mind that quite many wars or 'ghazwas' that were fought in the Prophet's (pbuh) lifetime involved very little or totally no bloodshed. Even such 'wars' might be referred to as 'slaughter' because the phrase conforms with the term 'war.' Thus, in other words, Allah is simply putting a rule before the people that there can be no prisoners unless a war has officially taken place. And Allah knows best.

If you read through verses 8:67 to 8:69 quoted as follows:

"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. 8:67
Had it not been for an ordinance of Allah which had gone before, an awful doom had come upon you on account of what ye took. 8:68
Now enjoy what ye have won, as lawful and good, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." 8:69

These verses refer to the captives taken in the Battle of Badr. In verses 8:67-68 Allah states that according to His ordinance, no Prophet in the past was ever allowed to take captives or prisoners unless they participated in a complete and official warfare on the battlefield. I repeat, "made slaughter in the land" refers to the act of combat on the battlefield. Verse 8:69 confirms that the event of taking prisoners taken by the Muslims after the victory at Badr was lawful because of the ordinance of Allah which He had already established.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 4:08pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:46pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Except that there is no room for this sort of unfolding in Islam.
It would be the end of Islam if, after 14010 years, someone said that the fundamental doctrine of final revelation, final prophethood, eternal unchangable essence of the Koran was up for revision.

The fatal flaw of Islam is that it is totally unbending. It has over-represented itself from the start, thanks to Mohammed's semi-literate misunderstanding of both Judaism and Christianity.

You can't make the guy who was the best of men for 1400 years a mere man who got a lot of things wrong.

There is no Islam without Mohammed as the best of men. Islam IS Mohammedanism so there is no removing him from the scene, however embarassing and patently wrong he was. Muslims are stuck with him - hence the rioting and murdering when he is mocked and not taken seriously.

Sorry, old boy, is this a new post?

Shurely shome mishtake.

Why? Is there a new Islam?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:45pm

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:46pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Sorry, old boy, is this a new post?

Shurely shome mishtake.

Why? Is there a new Islam?

Is there a new old boy?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:53pm

moses wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

You haven't read the bit that comes after, Moses. Muhammed is telling others not to kill their prisoners but to release them in return for a ransom.

Do you always read books like this?

You ignore the bit that comes first, you know there must be a great slaughter in the land before taking prisoners, why is that?

[quote]It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise." Al-Anfal 8:67

'Al-Anfal' would mean 'spoils of war.' The above verse does not at all mean to slaughter in a literal sense. But it's simply a phrase, meaning 'war' or 'fighting.' In this particular verse, "slaughter" would refer to 'an officially declared war.' It should also be kept in mind that quite many wars or 'ghazwas' that were fought in the Prophet's (pbuh) lifetime involved very little or totally no bloodshed. Even such 'wars' might be referred to as 'slaughter' because the phrase conforms with the term 'war.' Thus, in other words, Allah is simply putting a rule before the people that there can be no prisoners unless a war has officially taken place. And Allah knows best.

If you read through verses 8:67 to 8:69 quoted as follows:

"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. 8:67
Had it not been for an ordinance of Allah which had gone before, an awful doom had come upon you on account of what ye took. 8:68
Now enjoy what ye have won, as lawful and good, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." 8:69

These verses refer to the captives taken in the Battle of Badr. In verses 8:67-68 Allah states that according to His ordinance, no Prophet in the past was ever allowed to take captives or prisoners unless they participated in a complete and official warfare on the battlefield. I repeat, "made slaughter in the land" refers to the act of combat on the battlefield. Verse 8:69 confirms that the event of taking prisoners taken by the Muslims after the victory at Badr was lawful because of the ordinance of Allah which He had already established.

Yeah yeah muslim excuses flow thick and fast don't they, slaughter now means war what a weak apology, for islamic atrocities.

Are they saying muslims are so stupid they have to be told you don't get prisoners of war unless you have a war?

The excuse is a deliberate illogical lie, to cover the atrocities commanded in the qur'an.

The very reason islam is a worldwide security problem, is shown by this and other lies told by muslims to condone the depravity in the qur'an.

When are muslims and their apologists going to have the guts to be honest, and admit to the root cause of year in year out global islamic atrocities (islam allah muhammad qur'an and hadith)?
[/quote]

Moses, that’s the equivalent of the old boy’s never-ever post. When the living are presented with new information or context, they respond accordingly.

When cadavers are presented with the same, they respond just like you and the old boy have.

Each and every one of your quotes has a context and a story. Each of these deserves a little thought, not just the standard reply.

Believe it or not, they now have robots writing the news. Your post above is exactly the sort of programmed response you can do on your computer. And you did.

I wonder if I’m just talking to myself here.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:53pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Moses, that’s the equivalent of the old boy’s never-ever post. When the living are presented with new information or context, they respond accordingly.

When cadavers are presented with the same, they respond just like you and the old boy have.

Each and every one of your quotes has a context and a story. Each of these deserves a little thought, not just the standard reply.

Believe it or not, they now have robots writing the news. Your post above is exactly the sort of programmed response you can do on your computer. And you did.

I wonder if I’m just talking to myself here.

You're talking to muslims and apologists, both of whom will say and do anything, to avoid muslims / islam taking responsibility for the islamic filth and perversion which is the root cause of the depraved atrocities muslims commit daily around the globe.

The tired old "it doesn't really mean what it says" lie you're pushing, has well and truly had it's day.

Until muslims have the stomach to be honest, islamic human sacrifice will reign supreme. muslims calling on the satanic allah, before during and after, the slaughter of their fellow man, will run unabated.

muslims have caused their own problems with their utter stupidity, the ridiculous tenet which cites muhammad and the qur'an as perfect, everlasting and unchangeable, is their undoing.

Therefore muslims have to constantly fabricate absolutely unintelligent illogical excuses, in order to condone the putrefaction in the verses of the qur'an and the teachings and deeds of muhammad.

You may bend over backwards to accommodate their lies, I see no reason at all to validate their deceit.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 5:33pm

moses wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

Actually, Moses, I said it doesn't mean what you said. Muhammed telling soldiers he would not take prisoners if he wasn't at war is completely different to your claim of telling them all to go out and slaughter people.

I've been through most of your quoted passages and found completely different statements to what you've said. And I've Googled a few to get interpretations.

But this isn't about interpretation, it's about taking the words at their face value. If you won't paraphrase a quote honestly, how do you expect people to take claims like the following seriously?

Quote:

Therefore muslims have to constantly fabricate absolutely unintelligent illogical excuses, in order to condone the putrefaction in the verses of the qur'an and the teachings and deeds of muhammad

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 7:44pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:53pm:

Such silly nonsense, so PB.

The monsters themselves are saying that they are acting in the name of Islam, that they are motivated by the Koran, by the hadiths, by Mohammed's example and his honour, they quote Islamic texts as their hands are dripping with blood.

But silly old Paki BVgger here knows better than they do themselves and is all 'oh, don't be so simplistic as to take their word for it (they are tinted after all, they cannot be trusted to know their own minds)."

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:09pm

Oh, old boy, that’s post #3 - that’s the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Why don’t you try your University of Balogney education out on Moses’ quotes?

I know the words are hard to read. I had to find a jolly Moslem to expand a bit. Good Googling, no?

Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s most skillful to repeat your old post, but couldn’t you read Moses’ quotes as well?

It’s a bit of a mystery how the words sound so different to the numbers, but Moses has a reason for all that. The Koran is just telling fibs.

Lucky we have experts like Moses to correct it, eh?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:26pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:09pm:

You talk but you you say nothing.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 11:32pm

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:09pm:

You talk but you you say nothing.

No worries. Give us one of poor Moses’ quotes and we’ll have a little look-see, shall we?

Pick one to flesh out, as it were, University of Balogney-style. Let’s get specific.

You can still fit in old boy posts 1 -5 if you like, but we’ll apply it to the text.

After you, dear boy.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 5:08pm

karnal wrote:
Quote:

It’s a bit of a mystery how the words sound so different to the numbers, but Moses has a reason for all that. The Koran is just telling fibs.

Err no the lies come from the apologists and the muslims who constantly push the tired old "it doesn't really mean what it says" deception.

The muslims who shed the innocent blood of their fellow man are doing exactly what the qur'an says. No deceit on their part they are the true believers, the highest grade of muslim, guaranteed entry into paradise and a room full of big breasted houris.

So here's my quote again:

Therefore muslims have to constantly fabricate absolutely unintelligent illogical excuses, in order to condone the putrefaction in the verses of the qur'an and the teachings and deeds of muhammad

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 5:46pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:53pm:

I wonder if I’m just talking to myself here.

Yes, yourself and the gallery.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 5:58pm

Soren wrote on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 5:46pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:53pm:

I wonder if I’m just talking to myself here.

Yes, yourself and the gallery.

And the apologist.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 11:24pm

Soren wrote on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 5:46pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:53pm:

I wonder if I’m just talking to myself here.

Yes, yourself and the gallery.

Sorry, old boy, I thought you were going to dazzle us all with your dastardly quote from the Koran. No?

No worries. Moses has taken to repeating himself, so I see no reason why you shouldn’t do the same.

Where there was ego, there shall id be, no?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 3:23pm

It appears the apologists are backed into a corner, relying on tired old excuses. Here's something to cheer them up.

it doesn't really mean what it says

islam's a religion of peace

cause it doesn't really mean what it says

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 3:33pm

Have you ever thought of putting your replies on an endless loop, Moses?

That could work.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by moses on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 4:55pm

You mean like the muslims and the apologists incessantly telling us islam is a religion of peace, it doesn't really mean what it says, the killers aren't real muslims etc. etc.?

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 6:28pm

moses wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

You mean like the muslims and the apologists incessantly telling us islam is a religion of peace, it doesn't really mean what it says, the killers aren't real muslims etc. etc.?

No, Moses, I mean you saying the muslims and the apologists incessantly telling us islam is a religion of peace, it doesn't really mean what it says, the killers aren't real muslims etc. etc.

You've even got me repeating it.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Soren on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 9:15pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 6:28pm:

moses wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

You mean like the muslims and the apologists incessantly telling us islam is a religion of peace, it doesn't really mean what it says, the killers aren't real muslims etc. etc.?

The Muslims who kill think that the Muslims who don't are soft deviants. The soft deviants think that the Muslims who kill are hard deviants.
The hard-cocks are setting the agenda, the soft-cocks are kvetching feebly.

It's the battle of the soft and hard cocks. You can relate to that, can't you, PB? It's like Muslim gay liberation. They will want marriage equality for all four wives soon.

Title: Re: islam and human sacrifice
Post by Karnal on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 9:18pm

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 9:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 6:28pm:

moses wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

You mean like the muslims and the apologists incessantly telling us islam is a religion of peace, it doesn't really mean what it says, the killers aren't real muslims etc. etc.?

Oh, indeed. Come on, old boy. It's time for beddie-byes.