The daily family ritual of sitting down to dinner together has taken on a new significance for about half a million Australian Muslims observing the holy month of Ramadan.

They must abstain from all food and drink during daylight hours to purify the soul, refocus on God, and practice self-sacrifice.

The fast is broken every evening at sunset with special meals enjoyed together with family and friends.

"It is such a special thing for us, the Ramadan dinner," said mother-of-five, Canan Coskun, from Logan, south of Brisbane.

"If you can imagine you haven't eaten all day so you're really looking forward to that soup and that bread, and everything just seems so delicious."

Her family hosts the special dinners, or Iftars, where they invite non-Muslim guests to share in the evening meal at their home.

This year, the Coskuns counted Queensland's Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Brent Carter among their guests.

"What better thing to do with someone than to sit down and have food with them?" said Mrs Coskun.

"Especially when we're in my home and I'm serving them food.

"To share that special moment with people from other faith backgrounds, it means a lot to us."

Mrs Coskun said she believed having a meal together could also help to break down barriers.

"I've had many people over at my house who have never seen a Muslim person before, or maybe they've never seen a woman in a hijab," she said.

"They're sitting at my dinner table and just kind of looking at me serving them soup and serving them sweets, and I can see them thinking, 'wow, they're pretty much like us and they're quite normal'."

The notion of going without food or water for thirty days also sparks plenty of questions from non-Muslim guests.

"They just think we're refraining from food and water, but it's more than that," said 18-year-old Seyma Coskun.

"It's about developing more spiritually, it's about doing more good, it's about making better habits."

Her eight year-old brother, Huzeyfe, is not obliged to fast until he reaches puberty, but he is trying to join his parents and older sisters.

He says his friends are very curious.

"They ask, 'is it easy and do you get very hungry?' and I say that I don't eat much, so it's easy for me," he said.

Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar and this year runs from June 18 until July 17.

Like his wife, Murat Coskun hoped breaking bread with other community members might help foster tolerance and appreciation of cultural diversity.

"I think that whilst it's not an obligation for people to know about it, it would not take anything away from them, from knowing about Ramadan, " he said.

"It would just add to their depth and I think and it would help them better understand people that they bump into at work, or maybe their neighbours or their friends.

"We like to learn about Christmas and how our human brethren live and what they believe in."

He said the family looked forward to Ramadan.

"It's like the spiritual pinnacle of our year," said Mr Coskun.

"It's where we're closest to God and consequently closest to people as well."

Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Carter described it as an educational experience.

"You know I've learned so much, meeting this family for the first time, sitting down and sharing a meal with them," he said.

"They're just like any other Australian family: hard working, very committed and family-orientated."

The dinners are coordinated through the Queensland Intercultural Society to foster a better understanding of the Islamic faith.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-02/australian-muslims-use-ramadan-to-break-down-cultural-barriers/6591136

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 11:09am:

.... "It is such a special thing for us, the Ramadan dinner," said mother-of-five, Canan Coskun, from Logan, south of Brisbane. ..... ..... Her family hosts the special dinners, or Iftars, where they invite non-Muslim guests to share in the evening meal at their home. This year, the Coskuns counted Queensland's Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Brent Carter among their guests. "What better thing to do with someone than to sit down and have food with them?" said Mrs Coskun. ..... ..... The dinners are coordinated through the Queensland Intercultural Society to foster a better understanding of the Islamic faith. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-02/australian-muslims-use-ramadan-to-break-down-cultural-barriers/6591136

RESPONSE....

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1433662293/7#7

Quote:

QUESTION; How can Australians ever have a peaceful relationship with 'Aussie' moslems, when the moslem community in Australia, hides a malevolent intent towards all Australians who are not moslems ?

Spare a thought for our UK brothers and sisters - fasting 20 hours a day  ;)

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 12:29pm:

Spare a thought for our UK brothers and sisters - fasting 20 hours a day  ;)

They should sleep during the day so they don't have to fast.

that would defeat the purpose Baron. They may as well not fast at all.

Though it would be more sensible to agree upon a set 12 or so hours to fast - rather than be beholden to the daylight hours.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 3:39pm:

Though it would be more sensible to agree upon a set 12 or so hours to fast - rather than be beholden to the daylight hours.

Are you saying the rules for fasting are not sensible,who was the fool who created those rules?  ::)

Must you always act like a dick Baron?

Its a legitimate question, but there are ways of asking and there are ways of asking.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 3:39pm:

that would defeat the purpose Baron. They may as well not fast at all. Though it would be more sensible to agree upon a set 12 or so hours to fast - rather than be beholden to the daylight hours.

Or maybe all Muslims should go back to Araby for Ramadan.

Keepin' it real - like.

It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 5:33pm:

It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO.

Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs?

And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour?

What is Allah going to do if you do not fast EXACTLY between sunrise and sunset? Smite you?

The ludicrous literalism of Islam demonstrates that it is the creation of a semi-literate meshuggeh.



This insistance on a stupid rule shows just how unreceptive Muslims are to reason - they are super-rationalists (adhering to the black letter of the law) and have minimal ability to see purpose, aim, design. There is no reasoning in Islam to find anew way, there is only rationalising the stupid old dogma that way invented by a semi-literate meshuggeh.

It's all a colossal misunderstaning and if you look at the faces of people who are taken in by it - the Elomars and Sharoufs of this world, and the Middlle Eastern Imams here and across the world  - you see just how dreadfully and dangerously stupid it all is.

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:33pm: It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO. Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs? And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour? What is Allah going to do if you do not fast EXACTLY between sunrise and sunset? Smite you? The ludicrous literalism of Islam demonstrates that it is the creation of a semi-literate meshuggeh. This insistance on a stupid rule shows just how unreceptive Muslims are to reason - they are super-rationalists (adhering to the black letter of the law) and have minimal ability to see purpose, aim, design. There is no reasoning in Islam to find anew way, there is only rationalising the stupid old dogma that way invented by a semi-literate meshuggeh. It's all a colossal misunderstaning and if you look at the faces of people who are taken in by it - the Elomars and Sharoufs of this world, and the Middlle Eastern Imams here and across the world  - you see just how dreadfully and dangerously stupid it all is.

Interesting that you'd use a Jewish word, Soren...   ::)

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:31pm:

Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs? And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour?

Muslims are very communal. Its traditional to hold gatherings at break-fasting and join together in the ramadan prayers.

Obviously that would all fall apart if everyone was fasting 'free-for-all'

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:37pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:33pm: It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO. Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs? And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour? What is Allah going to do if you do not fast EXACTLY between sunrise and sunset? Smite you? The ludicrous literalism of Islam demonstrates that it is the creation of a semi-literate meshuggeh. This insistance on a stupid rule shows just how unreceptive Muslims are to reason - they are super-rationalists (adhering to the black letter of the law) and have minimal ability to see purpose, aim, design. There is no reasoning in Islam to find anew way, there is only rationalising the stupid old dogma that way invented by a semi-literate meshuggeh. It's all a colossal misunderstaning and if you look at the faces of people who are taken in by it - the Elomars and Sharoufs of this world, and the Middlle Eastern Imams here and across the world  - you see just how dreadfully and dangerously stupid it all is. Interesting that you'd use a Jewish word, Soren...   ::)

Is it, my know-bugger-All little interlocutor?

The Jews of Araby were exterminated by Mohammed because they called him just what he was, a meshuggeh, a madman.

He wanted to be the next Jewish prophet but illiterates are not seen by the 'people of he book' as sufficiently lettered to qualify for prophethood.

That incensed old Mo and so he murdered them all.

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:37pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:33pm: It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO. Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs? And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour? What is Allah going to do if you do not fast EXACTLY between sunrise and sunset? Smite you? The ludicrous literalism of Islam demonstrates that it is the creation of a semi-literate meshuggeh. This insistance on a stupid rule shows just how unreceptive Muslims are to reason - they are super-rationalists (adhering to the black letter of the law) and have minimal ability to see purpose, aim, design. There is no reasoning in Islam to find anew way, there is only rationalising the stupid old dogma that way invented by a semi-literate meshuggeh. It's all a colossal misunderstaning and if you look at the faces of people who are taken in by it - the Elomars and Sharoufs of this world, and the Middlle Eastern Imams here and across the world  - you see just how dreadfully and dangerously stupid it all is. Interesting that you'd use a Jewish word, Soren...   ::) Is it, my know-bugger-All little interlocutor?

Yes.  Nothing wrong with using it, I just find it interesting, Soren.  You appear to have a problem with me noting it for some reason.


Quote:

The Jews of Araby were exterminated by Mohammed because they called him just what he was, a meshuggeh, a madman. He wanted to be the next Jewish prophet but illiterates are not seen by the 'people of he book' as sufficiently lettered to qualify for prophethood. That incensed old Mo and so he murdered them all.

And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::)

Muhammed made a good start on wiping out the local Jews, and his successors finished them off.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:56pm:

And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::)

Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis.

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis.

Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::)

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 5:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 3:39pm: that would defeat the purpose Baron. They may as well not fast at all. Though it would be more sensible to agree upon a set 12 or so hours to fast - rather than be beholden to the daylight hours. Or maybe all Muslims should go back to Araby for Ramadan. Keepin' it real - like.

Araby?

Maybe you need to go back to school

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:56pm:

Muhammed made a good start on wiping out the local Jews, and his successors finished them off.

And the connection to ramadan?

wally1 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:32pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:07pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 3:39pm: that would defeat the purpose Baron. They may as well not fast at all. Though it would be more sensible to agree upon a set 12 or so hours to fast - rather than be beholden to the daylight hours. Or maybe all Muslims should go back to Araby for Ramadan. Keepin' it real - like. Araby? Maybe you need to go back to school

Araby has nuffin to do wiv Islam.

Islam has nuffin' to do wiv Islam.

Nuffin has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

Allahu Akbar, but.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:05pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::)

You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot.

As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic?

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:39pm:

wally1 wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:32pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:07pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 3:39pm: that would defeat the purpose Baron. They may as well not fast at all. Though it would be more sensible to agree upon a set 12 or so hours to fast - rather than be beholden to the daylight hours. Or maybe all Muslims should go back to Araby for Ramadan. Keepin' it real - like. Araby? Maybe you need to go back to school Araby has nuffin to do wiv Islam. Islam has nuffin' to do wiv Islam. Nuffin has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'. Allahu Akbar, but.

Lol araby.

Nationalism has no place in islam.

A arab is not superior to a non arab in islam.

Quote:

Nationalism has no place in islam.

Muhammed built a nation. That's what Islam is.

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 9:00pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic?

Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::)

Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::)

it should be Ramadan for every day and every night.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 11:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::)

Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race.

It's people who believe that a murderous, priapic semi-literate warlord was the best of all men.

Greg et al seem to think that these Muslims would be raping and pillaging their way across western Sydney if they were not Muslims. A racist explanation is the most likely alternative explanation for this behaviour, but I could not get a straight answer from any of them.


greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Jun 29th, 2015 at 2:26pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2015 at 1:41pm: I am not asking for excuses, only a straight answer. Are they genetically predisposed to it Greg? More FD fish ventriloquism? More excuses for killers?

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:33pm: It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO. Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs? And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour?

;D ;D ;D

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 4:11am:

it should be Ramadan for every day and every night.

Starve them.

Karnal wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 4:11am: it should be Ramadan for every day and every night. Starve them.

But only the beady eyed ones ...


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/beady.png

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 11:00pm:

Quote: Nationalism has no place in islam. Muhammed built       a nation. That's what Islam is.

Exactly so.



Dictionary;
ummah = = the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion.



Every moslem understands that the 'moslem nation' is not a nation that is contained by borders.

The 'moslem nation' is the community and nation that he [identifies with, and] belongs to, until death.



"Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."
Ishaq:231



To the moslem [whether he is Shia, or, Sunni] the ummah, is 'the nation' of moslems   -   no matter where on earth those moslems [those moslem communities] may reside.


Google;
no-go areas, non-muslims, europe





Dictionary;
ummah = = the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion.

Dictionary;
Islam = = the religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Yadda wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 1:40pm:

"Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." Ishaq:231 To the moslem [whether he is Shia, or, Sunni] the ummah, is 'the nation' of moslems   -   no matter where on earth those moslems [those moslem communities] may reside. Google; no-go areas, non-muslims, europe

no-go areas, non-muslims, europe


Supporting evidence....

Belgium - Militant Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-inob20I_Y0


[must see] Muslims conquer Europe, French people have had enough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eABe3HNTK0


Violence, threats, intimidation - Europe under siege by Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DSEbBzZ8rg

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 9:58am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race.

Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::)

You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as "races".  There is only one "race", the human one.   We are all members of it (well, nearly all of us, I have my doubts about Sprint and Yadda).   ;)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:41pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.

highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 5:33pm:

It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO.

Whoa! Hang on!!

Are you suggesting that Mohammed, the best of man and the messenger of God, no less, had no idea that the earth is spherical and if Islam i spreads by the sword to cover the planet, as he most certainly wanted it to, he had no idea that the faithuthful will have months of daylight up near the arctic?

You are not saying that he didn't know something and therefore his ruling is wrong???? Coz if he is wrong here, where else is he wrong?

Islam is unreformable insofar as overruling Mohammed. Once you start, it will not end except when it a;ll collapses as a deeply contradictory thing it is.
And as the whole of Islam rests on what Mohammed said and did, reforming it means diggging its grave. THAT he knew probably more than anyone.

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:41pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain.

Semitic is a cultural grouping, composed of descendants of the ancient Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabic peoples, Soren.  Remember, I don't believe in the concept of "race" as used by Racists?  There is only one race, the human one.  ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 3:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:53pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:41pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain. Semitic is a cultural grouping, composed of descendants of the ancient Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabic peoples, Soren.  Remember, I don't believe in the concept of "race" as used by Racists?  There is only one race, the human one.  ::)

Showing off your useless little learning.

How is a dislike of Islam and Mohammed's teachings antisemitic, Brain?


By your stupid reckoning dislike of Nazism is simply an anti-white stance or not accepting Buddhism is anti-Asian.

The Rousseau of Ozpolitic is correct. Rousseau was a quarrelsome, paranoid, delusional compulsive onanist.
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=zItn2J-JWV0C&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=instead+of+knowing+how+to+hold+my+tongue+when+I+have+nothing+to+say,+it+is+just+then+Rousseau&source=bl&ots=VmQQ9CiqNj&sig=mBNZyWj0njDY4J7vK3-5ZzMSkFE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RHyXVcjJGort8gWtmr6gBg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=instead%20of%20knowing%20how%20to%20hold%20my%20tongue%20when%20I%20have%20nothing%20to%20say%2C%20it%20is%20just%20then%20Rousseau&f=false


You have the same manias as him.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:56pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:48pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:37pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 5:33pm: It is reasonable for muslims worldwide to follow Mecca time during Ramadan IMO. Isn't this a ridiculous bronze age superstition, adopted by medieval Arabs? And shouldn't your fasting be a matter between you and Allah, rather than you and your beady eyed Muslim neighbour? What is Allah going to do if you do not fast EXACTLY between sunrise and sunset? Smite you? The ludicrous literalism of Islam demonstrates that it is the creation of a semi-literate meshuggeh. This insistance on a stupid rule shows just how unreceptive Muslims are to reason - they are super-rationalists (adhering to the black letter of the law) and have minimal ability to see purpose, aim, design. There is no reasoning in Islam to find anew way, there is only rationalising the stupid old dogma that way invented by a semi-literate meshuggeh. It's all a colossal misunderstaning and if you look at the faces of people who are taken in by it - the Elomars and Sharoufs of this world, and the Middlle Eastern Imams here and across the world  - you see just how dreadfully and dangerously stupid it all is. Interesting that you'd use a Jewish word, Soren...   ::) Is it, my know-bugger-All little interlocutor? Yes.  Nothing wrong with using it, I just find it interesting, Soren.  You appear to have a problem with me noting it for some reason.

The Jews laughed t him and called him a meshuggeh when he wanted to sign them up to his 'revelation'.

SO he killed them all.  ANd had the 'revelation' that all Jews must be killed in order for Islam to rule the world.

So the eternal revelation was first to convert the Jews and then when they laughed at him, it was revealed by Allah that they all should be killed.

Allah is all knowing, eh?

A very dangerous meshuggeh.

Quote:

Islam is unreformable insofar as overruling Mohammed. Once you start, it will not end except when it a;ll collapses as a deeply contradictory thing it is.

In the treacherous Jews thread Gandalf is dropping vague hints that Muhammed may have "erred".

Once the revision starts, the whole edifice of Islam will collapse, like the Berlin Wall.


Islam is an intellectually indefensible creed. You cannot reason your way to Islam.

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 8:18pm:

Once the revision starts, the whole edifice of Islam will collapse, like the Berlin Wall. Islam is an intellectually indefensible creed. You cannot reason your way to Islam.

Then why hasnt it collapsed?

The pagans, idol worshippers and jews couldnt even defeat Mohamed and his 50 followers.

Even when  Mohamed was outnumbered 5 to 1 he couldnt be defeated.

I spoke to soon. He has chosen to ignore. Instead, he is liberating himself.

freediver wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 7:01pm:

Quote: Islam is unreformable insofar as overruling Mohammed. Once you start, it will not end except when it a;ll collapses as a deeply contradictory thing it is. In the treacherous Jews thread Gandalf is dropping vague hints that Muhammed may have "erred".

That is shocking!!!

And i had always regarded gandalf as devout, and, pure.

>:(

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 8:18pm:

Islam is an intellectually indefensible creed.

Sadly, it's also morally bankrupt as no other religion.

Its moral influence upon its congregation is negligible, with the result that Muslim immigrants to Britain, Australia, and Canada show a high percentage of criminality, incarceration, high unemployment, welfare rorting, threats of violence, rape, etc etc.

In other words the percentage of human vermin that has arrived with Muslim immigration is WAY beyond that brought in by other, non-Muslim, minority ethnicities.

Canada:

“Unemployment is stubbornly high among Muslims,” said Nabil Harfoush of the Dawn Foundation in presenting the report. “Some 13.9 per cent of Muslims were unemployed in 2011, as compared with the national average of 7.8 per cent.”

“All visible minorities which share ethnicities and cultures with Muslims and probably studied at the same universities fare much better than Muslims with an unemployment rate of 9.9 per cent.”

**

And then we have Muslim Community leaders in Canada expressing outrage that an initiative to de-radicalise potential terrorists might be targetting only Muslims to be put through this program ...

The childishly petulant denials that violent radicalism is currently exclusive to Islam, and hence the youth of immigrant Muslim communities needs special preventive attention - is quite breath-taking -- and lacks honesty and moral fibre in their 'leaders'.

link

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 4:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 3:22pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:53pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:41pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain. Semitic is a cultural grouping, composed of descendants of the ancient Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabic peoples, Soren.  Remember, I don't believe in the concept of "race" as used by Racists?  There is only one race, the human one.  ::) Showing off your useless little learning. How is a dislike of Islam and Mohammed's teachings antisemitic, Brain?

Because you fail to differentiate between the religion and it's practitioners, Soren.    ::)


Quote:

By your stupid reckoning dislike of Nazism is simply an anti-white stance or not accepting Buddhism is anti-Asian.

No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 3:22pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:53pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:41pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain. Semitic is a cultural grouping, composed of descendants of the ancient Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabic peoples, Soren.  Remember, I don't believe in the concept of "race" as used by Racists?  There is only one race, the human one.  ::) Showing off your useless little learning. How is a dislike of Islam and Mohammed's teachings antisemitic, Brain? Because you fail to differentiate between the religion and it's practitioners, Soren.    ::) Quote: By your stupid reckoning dislike of Nazism is simply an anti-white stance or not accepting Buddhism is anti-Asian. No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::)

Why do you assume it's fear?

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::)

Islam is also a political ideology, you pedantic fool.



Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

Because you fail to differentiate between the religion and it's practitioners, Soren

What is a religion without its practitioners, Brain?

Explain.

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::) Islam is also a political ideology, you pedantic fool.

Islam is a religion, Soren.   


Quote:

Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;[note 1] Arabic: الإسلام‎, al-ʾIslām IPA: [ælʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 2]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an, a religious text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Allāh), and, for the vast majority of adherents, by the teachings and normative example (called the sunnah, composed of accounts called hadith) of Muhammad (c. 570–8 June 632 CE), considered by most of them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim (sometimes spelled "Moslem").[1]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam]Source[/url]

Islamism, OTOH:

Quote:

Islamism (Urdu: اسلام پرستی‎; Arabic: إسلاموية‎‎), also known as Political Islam, is a set of ideologies holding that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life".[1]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism]Source[/url]

Therefore you have some Muslims who believe in Islam who do not necessarily believe in Islamism, Soren.   This has been explained, I am sure, many times before.   You however, appear unable or unwilling, because of your Islamophobia to make the differentiation...  ::) ::)


Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: Because you fail to differentiate between the religion and it's practitioners, Soren What is a religion without its practitioners, Brain? Explain.

What is a political ideology without it's practioners, Soren?

That you have created this monolithic stereotype which makes no differentiation between Muslims and Islamists indicates you are suffering from Islamophobia, Soren.

double plus good wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 3:22pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:53pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:41pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain. Semitic is a cultural grouping, composed of descendants of the ancient Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabic peoples, Soren.  Remember, I don't believe in the concept of "race" as used by Racists?  There is only one race, the human one.  ::) Showing off your useless little learning. How is a dislike of Islam and Mohammed's teachings antisemitic, Brain? Because you fail to differentiate between the religion and it's practitioners, Soren.    ::) Quote: By your stupid reckoning dislike of Nazism is simply an anti-white stance or not accepting Buddhism is anti-Asian. No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::) Why do you assume it's fear?

It’s a fear of difference, Homo. You’ve said yourself you have no fears of Muslim attacks in Western Sydney. You’ve also said you’ve met a lot of nice Muslims - loyal friends, hospitable people, good neighbours.

Your fear is one of lonliness. You’re frightened of being excluded as an outsider in your own country. You see immigrants everywhere and you see them forming their own tribes rather than joining your tribe. You worry that one day, you won’t fit in.

It’s a reasonable fear. Sydney has changed completely from the city I grew up in. It’s not just about race, but technology. When I grew up we joined tribes too, but these tribes were formed along suburban lines. In the western suburbs, we were "westies". On the northern beaches there were a lot of mods and skinheads. The eastern suburbs had a posh, boat shoe/Lacoste look. The inner city had punks and trendoids.

Now, the tribes are globalized. Kids get their youth culture from the internet. You see the same Emos in Sydney that you do in Jakarta and Seoul. Garage punks have similar fashion and musical influences in Sydney and Beijing.

There are also racial groupings. Islander kids.and Aboriginals like black American soul and hip hop. There are religious ones - the Hillsong church, with its Christian music company, is now on every continent. Jihadist groups attract Sunni Arabs and Afghanis.

I can see why you fear these changes, but they’re part of Australian.history from transportation to today. We’re an immigrant nation, and we will always change from one generation to the next. There’s two ways you can go: get with the program or exclude yourself. Embrace change or fight it.

Live in hope - or fear. It’s your choice. The loneliness you fear is of your own creation.

Karnal wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:16pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:27pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 3:22pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:53pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:41pm: Soren wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 9:58am: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:00pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 7:56pm: And so all Muslims must pay for all eternity for that crime, Soren?   ::) Until they utterly repudiate it - yes, they should be made to pay for that crime. No free pass for Nazis. Funny you should therefore adopt the same tactics as the Nazis had with their anti-Semitism in blaming modern Jews for the death of Christ, Soren...   ::) You are an idiot, Brain Ross. A complete idiot. As long as Muslims endorse Mohammed's murders as the actions of the best of all men who has ever lived, yes, Muslims DO carry that burden of responsibility. What the hell did you expect, lunatic? Thanks for your usual return to ad hominem, Soren.  I was missing it.    ::) Oh, and before I forget, you are engaging in anti-Semitism, you realise?   ::) Bollocks, Brain, Muslims are not a race. Where did I suggest they were, Soren?   ::) You're the one who treats the religious group as a "race", Soren.  highlighted for ya. Easy to miss in your two line post, Brain. Semitic is a cultural grouping, composed of descendants of the ancient Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabic peoples, Soren.  Remember, I don't believe in the concept of "race" as used by Racists?  There is only one race, the human one.  ::) Showing off your useless little learning. How is a dislike of Islam and Mohammed's teachings antisemitic, Brain? Because you fail to differentiate between the religion and it's practitioners, Soren.    ::) Quote: By your stupid reckoning dislike of Nazism is simply an anti-white stance or not accepting Buddhism is anti-Asian. No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::) Why do you assume it's fear? It’s a fear of difference, Homo. You’ve said yourself you have no fears of Muslim attacks in Western Sydney. You’ve also said you’ve met a lot of nice Muslims - loyal friends, hospitable people, good neighbours. Your fear is one of lonliness. You’re frightened of being excluded as an outsider in your own country. You see immigrants everywhere and you see them forming their own tribes rather than joining your tribe. You worry that one day, you won’t fit in. It’s a reasonable fear. Sydney has changed completely from the city I grew up in. It’s not just about race, but technology. When I grew up we joined tribes too, but these tribes were formed along suburban lines. In the western suburbs, we were "westies". On the northern beaches there were a lot of mods and skinheads. The eastern suburbs had a posh, boat shoe/Lacoste look. The inner city had punks and trendoids. Now, the tribes are globalized. Kids get their youth culture from the internet. You see the same Emos in Sydney that you do in Jakarta and Seoul. Garage punks have similar fashion and musical influences in Sydney and Beijing. There are also racial groupings. Islander kids.and Aboriginals like black American soul and hip hop. There are religious ones - the Hillsong church, with its Christian music company, is now on every continent. Jihadist groups attract Sunni Arabs and Afghanis. I can see why you fear these changes, but they’re part of Australian.history from transportation to today. We’re an immigrant nation, and we will always change from one generation to the next. There’s two ways you can go: get with the program or exclude yourself. Embrace change or fight it. Live in hope - or fear. It’s your choice. The loneliness you fear is of your own creation.

Sydney was a load more socially joined when I was young. Sure there were socioeconomic divides but the division is a lot more enforced and hardened now. How many Indians are going to dinner with muslims? If you think that's healthy then you need to get your head read. It's beyond my control. I'll eventually do what aussies are in Sydney have been doing for decades and move away. Why be a part of an ethnically and religiously divided city of strangers that look through you when you walk down the street??

True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners.

These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas.

The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others who think.different things to you. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape war and religious persecution.. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups in.both countries.

It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you. Personally, I think your racial issues are a symptom of economic fracturing and social alienation. Your racism is a symptom of shifts in.the nature of class in Australia, particularly the old proletarian class who’s jobs have been.exported to China. For you, immigration is just tthe most visible part of this economic shift.

But you miss the big picture.

Karnal wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners. These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape persecution in their homeland. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups. It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you.

You believe what you want Karnal. Maybe you are wrong. Many people are talking about what I'm saying. It's not just me. Anyway it's beyond you and me. It's in the lap of the gods. A risk that never had to happen.

double plus good wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 4:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:04pm: True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners. These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape persecution in their homeland. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups. It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you. You believe what you want Karnal. Maybe you are wrong. Many people are talking about what I'm saying. It's not just me. Anyway it's beyond you and me. It's in the lap of the gods. A risk that never had to happen.

Of course it had to happen. It has always happened. The Celts were overrun by the Romans, then Angles and Saxons. Your own Anglo-Celtic ancestry is a blend of cultures and races, as is Europe. The very history of Europe is about the shifting and blending of kingdoms, nations, cultures and races.

It had to happen in Australia. The only country to have attempted racial policies in recent times - South Africa - became an international pariah. Any party that tried to do the same would have been unelectable in Australia.

Your view, as you’ve explained, is that you get along with Muslims. Instead of following your own experience, you’re following the views of others.

I just wonder how many of those other people you’ve mentioned are doing the same.

Karnal wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:04pm: True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners. These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape persecution in their homeland. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups. It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you. You believe what you want Karnal. Maybe you are wrong. Many people are talking about what I'm saying. It's not just me. Anyway it's beyond you and me. It's in the lap of the gods. A risk that never had to happen. Of course it had to happen. It has always happened. The Celts were overrun by the Romans, then Angles and Saxons. Your own Anglo-Celtic ancestry is a blend of cultures and races, as is Europe. The very history of Europe is about the shifting and blending of kingdoms, nations, cultures and races. It had to happen in Australia. The only country to have attempted racial policies in recent times - South Africa - became an international pariah. Any party that tried to do the same would have been unelectable in Australia. Your view, as you’ve explained, is that you get along with Muslims. Instead of following your own experience, you’re following the views of others. I just wonder how many of those other people you’ve mentioned are doing the same.

Sounds nice. What happen though. We'll fight one another. You need to pick up some history books. When resources dwindle people will form groups and tussle for power. Don't worry about it Karnal, it's just life. Don't take it out on me, I'm just a pawn in the game of life. I just try to warn people. It's too late though. Australia is heading in a direction and it won't stop. The elite should have though it through.

double plus good wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 4:35pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:25pm: double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:04pm: True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners. These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape persecution in their homeland. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups. It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you. You believe what you want Karnal. Maybe you are wrong. Many people are talking about what I'm saying. It's not just me. Anyway it's beyond you and me. It's in the lap of the gods. A risk that never had to happen. Of course it had to happen. It has always happened. The Celts were overrun by the Romans, then Angles and Saxons. Your own Anglo-Celtic ancestry is a blend of cultures and races, as is Europe. The very history of Europe is about the shifting and blending of kingdoms, nations, cultures and races. It had to happen in Australia. The only country to have attempted racial policies in recent times - South Africa - became an international pariah. Any party that tried to do the same would have been unelectable in Australia. Your view, as you’ve explained, is that you get along with Muslims. Instead of following your own experience, you’re following the views of others. I just wonder how many of those other people you’ve mentioned are doing the same. Sounds nice. What happen though. We'll fight one another. You need to pick up some history books. When resources dwindle people will form groups and tussle for power. Don't worry about it Karnal, it's just life. Don't take it out on me, I'm just a pawn in the game of life. I just try to warn people. It's too late though. Australia is heading in a direction and it won't stop. The elite should have though it through.

So you’re saying we’re heading towards a civil war?

Karnal wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 4:51pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:35pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:25pm: double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:04pm: True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners. These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape persecution in their homeland. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups. It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you. You believe what you want Karnal. Maybe you are wrong. Many people are talking about what I'm saying. It's not just me. Anyway it's beyond you and me. It's in the lap of the gods. A risk that never had to happen. Of course it had to happen. It has always happened. The Celts were overrun by the Romans, then Angles and Saxons. Your own Anglo-Celtic ancestry is a blend of cultures and races, as is Europe. The very history of Europe is about the shifting and blending of kingdoms, nations, cultures and races. It had to happen in Australia. The only country to have attempted racial policies in recent times - South Africa - became an international pariah. Any party that tried to do the same would have been unelectable in Australia. Your view, as you’ve explained, is that you get along with Muslims. Instead of following your own experience, you’re following the views of others. I just wonder how many of those other people you’ve mentioned are doing the same. Sounds nice. What happen though. We'll fight one another. You need to pick up some history books. When resources dwindle people will form groups and tussle for power. Don't worry about it Karnal, it's just life. Don't take it out on me, I'm just a pawn in the game of life. I just try to warn people. It's too late though. Australia is heading in a direction and it won't stop. The elite should have though it through. So you’re saying we’re heading towards a civil war?

Eventually. Look at all old countries with mixed ethnicities  and religions. It's happened to all of them. Look at the middle east.

... dear o dear o dear ...

double plus good wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:51pm: double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:35pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:25pm: double plus good wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:11pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 4:04pm: True, Sydney was more connected back then, but it was a much smaller city. The racial and religious divides you mention are in your head. How many Indians do I know who hang out with Muslims? Four - one Hindu and one Christian married to Muslim partners. These divides are illusiory because we all speak the same language. Go to a place like India and 20 .ks down the road, they speak another language. On my street there is no ethnic majority. We are able to.communicate to each other and get along. There is no reason why Hindus and Muslims and Christians and atheists should not get along. Over 50% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. The divisions are in your own head, homo. Living in civilisation is about accepting others. This is especially the project of settler societies made up of people who initially migrated to escape persecution in their homeland. We had the Irish. The US had European protestants. These were followed by successive waves of different ethnic groups. It’s good to see you own your alienation, Homo. I doubt you’ll ever change. But at least you understand that the problem lies with you. You believe what you want Karnal. Maybe you are wrong. Many people are talking about what I'm saying. It's not just me. Anyway it's beyond you and me. It's in the lap of the gods. A risk that never had to happen. Of course it had to happen. It has always happened. The Celts were overrun by the Romans, then Angles and Saxons. Your own Anglo-Celtic ancestry is a blend of cultures and races, as is Europe. The very history of Europe is about the shifting and blending of kingdoms, nations, cultures and races. It had to happen in Australia. The only country to have attempted racial policies in recent times - South Africa - became an international pariah. Any party that tried to do the same would have been unelectable in Australia. Your view, as you’ve explained, is that you get along with Muslims. Instead of following your own experience, you’re following the views of others. I just wonder how many of those other people you’ve mentioned are doing the same. Sounds nice. What happen though. We'll fight one another. You need to pick up some history books. When resources dwindle people will form groups and tussle for power. Don't worry about it Karnal, it's just life. Don't take it out on me, I'm just a pawn in the game of life. I just try to warn people. It's too late though. Australia is heading in a direction and it won't stop. The elite should have though it through. So you’re saying we’re heading towards a civil war? Eventually. Look at all old countries with mixed ethnicities  and religions. It's happened to all of them. Look at the middle east.

So India, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, most of Central and South America, many parts of Africa, it’s happened to all of them, eh?

The racial struggle for resources. You haven’t been reading Mein Kampf have you?

Herbie sounds appalled.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:43pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:31pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::) Islam is also a political ideology, you pedantic fool. Islam is a religion, Soren.    Quote: Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;[note 1] Arabic: الإسلام‎, al-ʾIslām IPA: [ælʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 2]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an, a religious text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Allāh), and, for the vast majority of adherents, by the teachings and normative example (called the sunnah, composed of accounts called hadith) of Muhammad (c. 570–8 June 632 CE), considered by most of them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim (sometimes spelled "Moslem").[1] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam]Source[/url] Islamism, OTOH: [quote] Islamism (Urdu: اسلام پرستی‎; Arabic: إسلاموية‎‎), also known as Political Islam, is a set of ideologies holding that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life".[1]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism]Source[/url]

Therefore you have some Muslims who believe in Islam who do not necessarily believe in Islamism, Soren.   This has been explained, I am sure, many times before.   You however, appear unable or unwilling, because of your Islamophobia to make the differentiation...  ::) ::)


[/quote]
By that definition every practicing Muslim is an Islamist because they all have Islam as their guide to life and politics.


Which is my point.

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:43pm: Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:31pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::) Islam is also a political ideology, you pedantic fool. Islam is a religion, Soren.    Quote: Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;[note 1] Arabic: الإسلام‎, al-ʾIslām IPA: [ælʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 2]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an, a religious text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Allāh), and, for the vast majority of adherents, by the teachings and normative example (called the sunnah, composed of accounts called hadith) of Muhammad (c. 570–8 June 632 CE), considered by most of them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim (sometimes spelled "Moslem").[1] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam]Source[/url] Islamism, OTOH: [quote] Islamism (Urdu: اسلام پرستی‎; Arabic: إسلاموية‎‎), also known as Political Islam, is a set of ideologies holding that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life".[1] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism]Source[/url] Therefore you have some Muslims who believe in Islam who do not necessarily believe in Islamism, Soren.   This has been explained, I am sure, many times before.   You however, appear unable or unwilling, because of your Islamophobia to make the differentiation...  ::) ::)

By that definition every practicing Muslim is an Islamist because they all have Islam as their guide to life and politics.
[/quote]

Which definition, I gave two, Soren.

Also, you're assuming that all Muslims are 100% observant in their devotions and duties.  Why?   Most Christians aren't.  Why would all Muslims be?   You'd never have this:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/Q83Eba.jpg

Or this:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/907/kfjZva.jpg

If all Muslims were 100% committed to their faith.

You have erected this monolithic stereotype in the mind, Soren and that is the only place it exists.  Time to get out there are talk to some real Muslims for a change.   They are a mixed bunch, some go to Mosque, the majority don't.    ::)


Quote:

Which is my point.

Your only point is Islamophobia, Soren.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:02pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:43pm: Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:31pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 12:25pm: No, anti-Naziism (please note the double "i", Soren, if you wish to be syntactically correct), is a dislike of a political ideology.   Islamophobia is an unreasoning fear of Islam and Muslims.    ::) Islam is also a political ideology, you pedantic fool. Islam is a religion, Soren.    Quote: Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;[note 1] Arabic: الإسلام‎, al-ʾIslām IPA: [ælʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 2]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an, a religious text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Allāh), and, for the vast majority of adherents, by the teachings and normative example (called the sunnah, composed of accounts called hadith) of Muhammad (c. 570–8 June 632 CE), considered by most of them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim (sometimes spelled "Moslem").[1] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam]Source[/url] Islamism, OTOH: [quote] Islamism (Urdu: اسلام پرستی‎; Arabic: إسلاموية‎‎), also known as Political Islam, is a set of ideologies holding that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life".[1] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism]Source[/url] Therefore you have some Muslims who believe in Islam who do not necessarily believe in Islamism, Soren.   This has been explained, I am sure, many times before.   You however, appear unable or unwilling, because of your Islamophobia to make the differentiation...  ::) ::) By that definition every practicing Muslim is an Islamist because they all have Islam as their guide to life and politics.

Which definition, I gave two, Soren.

Also, you're assuming that all Muslims are 100% observant in their devotions and duties.  Why?   Most Christians aren't.  Why would all Muslims be?   You'd never have this:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/Q83Eba.jpg

Or this:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/907/kfjZva.jpg

If all Muslims were 100% committed to their faith.

You have erected this monolithic stereotype in the mind, Soren and that is the only place it exists.  Time to get out there are talk to some real Muslims for a change.   They are a mixed bunch, some go to Mosque, the majority don't.    ::)


Quote:

Which is my point.

Your only point is Islamophobia, Soren.    ::)[/quote]


Here, the 487th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings.
You are both deluded and superfluous: they have left Islam already so they do not need you, of all people, to be their defenders. You keep surprsing me at every turn - you are thicker and more po-faced and irrelevant than I have imagined.

He is worried they might become collateral damage and have their delicate feelings hurt.

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 9:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:22pm: Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:02pm: Which is my point. Your only point is Islamophobia, Soren.    ::) Here, the 487th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings.

Sure, Soren, the problem is you make absolutely NO differentiation when you attack Muslims all the time.  You attack them for their beliefs, their practices and above all else because of your unreasoning fear of them, which is as we have amply demonstrated time after time, Islamophobia.   I am completely at a loss why you and the other Islamophobes here fear Muslims or Islam to the point where you have to persecute it's believers.    ::)


Quote:

You are both deluded and superfluous: they have left Islam already so they do not need you, of all people, to be their defenders. You keep surprsing me at every turn - you are thicker and more po-faced and irrelevant than I have imagined.

They have left Islam?  Why do they call themselves Muslims then, Soren?

You're like the Serbs of the last Balkan wars.  You create a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than look at reality.  You remember events of 1400 years ago as if they were yesterday.  Indeed, yesterday is today to you, Soren in a sad, sick sort of way.   Time you let Muslims and Islam go and just got on with the rest of your life rather dwelling on the imaginings of your Islamophobia all the time.     ::)

I don't doubt that you will come back with your usual torrent of ad hominem attacks, Soren.  You always do.   You're predictable in that way.  Even Herbie is at least funnier than you 'cause I know he isn't serious in his trolling.  You, you're deadly serious.   Your sad, Soren.     ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:48pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 9:11pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:22pm: Soren wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:02pm: Which is my point. Your only point is Islamophobia, Soren.    ::) Here, the 487th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. Sure, Soren, the problem is you make absolutely NO differentiation when you attack Muslims all the time.  You attack them for their beliefs, their practices and above all else because of your unreasoning fear of them, which is as we have amply demonstrated time after time, Islamophobia.   I am completely at a loss why you and the other Islamophobes here fear Muslims or Islam to the point where you have to persecute it's believers.    ::) Quote: You are both deluded and superfluous: they have left Islam already so they do not need you, of all people, to be their defenders. You keep surprsing me at every turn - you are thicker and more po-faced and irrelevant than I have imagined. They have left Islam?  Why do they call themselves Muslims then, Soren? You're like the Serbs of the last Balkan wars.  You create a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than look at reality.  You remember events of 1400 years ago as if they were yesterday.  Indeed, yesterday is today to you, Soren in a sad, sick sort of way.   Time you let Muslims and Islam go and just got on with the rest of your life rather dwelling on the imaginings of your Islamophobia all the time.     ::) I don't doubt that you will come back with your usual torrent of ad hominem attacks, Soren.  You always do.   You're predictable in that way.  Even Herbie is at least funnier than you 'cause I know he isn't serious in his trolling.  You, you're deadly serious.   Your sad, Soren.     ::)

Here, the 488th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings.

There's your differentiation, for the 4588th time.

Now memorise it.

Quote:

I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.

And they have no quarrel with you. But Brian does, on behalf of all those who have no interest in what he is saying. It is all he can do, given he does not allow himself the right or even ability to criticise those who do have an interest. It is his mission to ensure that people who aren't interested don't inadvertently become part of the debate through his own efforts to include strippers in the debate.

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

Quote: I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously. And they have no quarrel with you. But Brian does, on behalf of all those who have no interest in what he is saying. It is all he can do, given he does not allow himself the right or even ability to criticise those who do have an interest. It is his mission to ensure that people who aren't interested don't inadvertently become part of the debate through his own efforts to include strippers in the debate.

"You simply do not understand just how Islamophobic that is, FD.  ::)"





:D

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:48pm:

You're like the Serbs of the last Balkan wars.  You create a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than look at reality.

It was the Bosnian war criminal Naser Oric who started that war by provoking the Serbs,when the Serbs responded to muslim aggression the butthurt muslims claimed they were the victims in a conflict they started.
www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=naser+oric+war+criminal

A Bosnian Jihad nasheed video with allahu akbars and English subtitles,even has references to the war they started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0G7zmbfIh0

How convenient to ignore the thousands of Muslims who were killed by the Serbs Baron.  Anybody could take you for an Islamophobe, the way you try and apportion blame for the Mosques destroyed, the villages ethnically cleansed and the Muslims murdered.  You're just a wonderful person.   You know that?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:53pm:

How convenient to ignore the thousands of Muslims who were killed by the Serbs Baron.  Anybody could take you for an Islamophobe, the way you try and apportion blame for the Mosques destroyed, the villages ethnically cleansed and the Muslims murdered.  You're just a wonderful person.   You know that?   ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

It's OK to resist and kill Muslims when they are the aggressors, you know. They have no special pass for conquering and transgressing with impunity.

Soren wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 10:44am:

Here, the 488th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. There's your differentiation, for the 4588th time. Now memorise it.

However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 11:35pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 10:44am: Here, the 488th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. There's your differentiation, for the 4588th time. Now memorise it. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::)

Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings.

If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously.

Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence.

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.

So you do have a quarrel with muslims who do take Islam seriously - no exceptions?

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 11:35pm: Soren wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 10:44am: Here, the 488th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. There's your differentiation, for the 4588th time. Now memorise it. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence.

However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::)

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 9:11pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  So you do have a quarrel with muslims who do take Islam seriously - no exceptions?

I am happy for them to stay in their Muslim countries and make a go of their societies along Islamic lines.
But I also think that Islam is incompatible with Western social norms and customs and values. So if they are here and take Islam seriously, then there may well be an argument.

One of the  important Western values is not to submit to dogma but to be won over by reason. Islam doesn't have reason on its side, only stern dogma expecting submission. A quarrel is inevitable - and has been going on for 140 years between Islam and the West.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 10:55pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 11:35pm: Soren wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 10:44am: Here, the 488th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. There's your differentiation, for the 4588th time. Now memorise it. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::)

They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it.

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence.

However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 7:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::)

They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it.

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 8:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 7:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it.

No, Soren, its up to you to differentiate, unless of course your Islamophobia prevents you?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:01pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 7:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it. No, Soren, its up to you to differentiate, unless of course your Islamophobia prevents you?   ::)

Why is it up to me to differentiate between the levels of belief in Islam? can't they themselves tell the degree they believe in Islam?  Are they lost without me telling them?

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Why is it up to me to differentiate between the levels of belief in Islam? can't they themselves tell the degree they believe in Islam?  Are they lost without me telling them?

Because that way, he's got you coming and going. You see, if *you* purport to say which are "true" muslims, then he can call you prejudiced and a bigot. But, if you don't, then it's islamophobia preventing you from distinguishing between the two. Cunning, no?

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:25pm: Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:01pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 7:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it. No, Soren, its up to you to differentiate, unless of course your Islamophobia prevents you?   ::) Why is it up to me to differentiate between the levels of belief in Islam? can't they themselves tell the degree they believe in Islam?  Are they lost without me telling them?

Oh, I'm sure they're willing to announce their beliefs for your benefit, Soren.  The point is will you believe them?     ::)

When talking about Muslims chopping people's heads off, it is important to explain that you are talking about Muslims chopping people's heads off, and not Muslims refraining from chopping people's heads off, otherwise Brian gets terribly confused and thinks we are talking about the crusades or pedophile priests.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:25pm: Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:01pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 7:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it. No, Soren, its up to you to differentiate, unless of course your Islamophobia prevents you?   ::) Why is it up to me to differentiate between the levels of belief in Islam? can't they themselves tell the degree they believe in Islam?  Are they lost without me telling them? Oh, I'm sure they're willing to announce their beliefs for your benefit, Soren.  The point is will you believe them?     ::)

You are a fookin' looney.

Report me.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

Oh, I'm sure they're willing to announce their beliefs for your benefit, Soren.  The point is will you believe them?     ::)

Oh, I take them at their word, Brain.  Always have. Unlike you, Pea Brained squishy apologists, who will twist and excuse what they say.

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 9th, 2015 at 12:01am: Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:25pm: Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:01pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 7:50pm: Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Here, the 489th time, Brain - I have NO quarrel with anyone who doesn't take Islam seriously.  You are a complete idiot for imagining that you of all people are standing up for Muslims who themselves do not take Islam seriously enough to bother with its teachings. If you don't practice it, you are not taking it seriously. Only a fool like you needs that spelled out after every sentence. However, while you mouth your platitudes, Soren here, in every other thread and even on earlier pages of this one, you make no effort to differentiate between the lax, the mainstream and the extremists who each in turn believe in very different versions of Islam.   To you, they are all just "Muslims"...   ::) They are making the differentiation themselves, Brain. You know, if the cap fits, wear it. No, Soren, its up to you to differentiate, unless of course your Islamophobia prevents you?   ::) Why is it up to me to differentiate between the levels of belief in Islam? can't they themselves tell the degree they believe in Islam?  Are they lost without me telling them? Oh, I'm sure they're willing to announce their beliefs for your benefit, Soren.  The point is will you believe them?     ::) You are a fookin' looney. Report me.

Why would I report you, Soren?  I find your presence here most amusing as you expose your Islamophobia for all to see...   ::)

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 9th, 2015 at 12:01am: Oh, I'm sure they're willing to announce their beliefs for your benefit, Soren.  The point is will you believe them?     ::) Oh, I take them at their word, Brain.  Always have. Unlike you, Pea Brained squishy apologists, who will twist and excuse what they say.

Yes, please keep up your ad hominem attacks against me, Soren.  They are most amusing.    ::)

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 11:09am:

The daily family ritual of sitting down to dinner together has taken on a new significance for about half a million Australian Muslims observing the holy month of Ramadan. They must abstain from all food and drink during daylight hours to purify the soul, refocus on God, and practice self-sacrifice. The fast is broken every evening at sunset with special meals enjoyed together with family and friends. "It is such a special thing for us, the Ramadan dinner," said mother-of-five, Canan Coskun, from Logan, south of Brisbane. "If you can imagine you haven't eaten all day so you're really looking forward to that soup and that bread, and everything just seems so delicious." Her family hosts the special dinners, or Iftars, where they invite non-Muslim guests to share in the evening meal at their home. This year, the Coskuns counted Queensland's Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Brent Carter among their guests. "What better thing to do with someone than to sit down and have food with them?" said Mrs Coskun. "Especially when we're in my home and I'm serving them food. "To share that special moment with people from other faith backgrounds, it means a lot to us." Mrs Coskun said she believed having a meal together could also help to break down barriers. "I've had many people over at my house who have never seen a Muslim person before, or maybe they've never seen a woman in a hijab," she said. "They're sitting at my dinner table and just kind of looking at me serving them soup and serving them sweets, and I can see them thinking, 'wow, they're pretty much like us and they're quite normal'." The notion of going without food or water for thirty days also sparks plenty of questions from non-Muslim guests. "They just think we're refraining from food and water, but it's more than that," said 18-year-old Seyma Coskun. "It's about developing more spiritually, it's about doing more good, it's about making better habits." Her eight year-old brother, Huzeyfe, is not obliged to fast until he reaches puberty, but he is trying to join his parents and older sisters. He says his friends are very curious. "They ask, 'is it easy and do you get very hungry?' and I say that I don't eat much, so it's easy for me," he said. Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar and this year runs from June 18 until July 17. Like his wife, Murat Coskun hoped breaking bread with other community members might help foster tolerance and appreciation of cultural diversity. "I think that whilst it's not an obligation for people to know about it, it would not take anything away from them, from knowing about Ramadan, " he said. "It would just add to their depth and I think and it would help them better understand people that they bump into at work, or maybe their neighbours or their friends. "We like to learn about Christmas and how our human brethren live and what they believe in." He said the family looked forward to Ramadan. "It's like the spiritual pinnacle of our year," said Mr Coskun. "It's where we're closest to God and consequently closest to people as well." Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Carter described it as an educational experience. "You know I've learned so much, meeting this family for the first time, sitting down and sharing a meal with them," he said. "They're just like any other Australian family: hard working, very committed and family-orientated." The dinners are coordinated through the Queensland Intercultural Society to foster a better understanding of the Islamic faith. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-02/australian-muslims-use-ramadan-to-break-down-cultural-barriers/6591136

It is a bit of a laugh, all the raving about fasting during ramadan just to have a daily pig out. What a joke. Much like everything else with this lot.

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jul 14^th, 2015 at 9:25pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:09am: The daily family ritual of sitting down to dinner together has taken on a new significance for about half a million Australian Muslims observing the holy month of Ramadan. They must abstain from all food and drink during daylight hours to purify the soul, refocus on God, and practice self-sacrifice. The fast is broken every evening at sunset with special meals enjoyed together with family and friends. "It is such a special thing for us, the Ramadan dinner," said mother-of-five, Canan Coskun, from Logan, south of Brisbane. "If you can imagine you haven't eaten all day so you're really looking forward to that soup and that bread, and everything just seems so delicious." Her family hosts the special dinners, or Iftars, where they invite non-Muslim guests to share in the evening meal at their home. This year, the Coskuns counted Queensland's Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Brent Carter among their guests. "What better thing to do with someone than to sit down and have food with them?" said Mrs Coskun. "Especially when we're in my home and I'm serving them food. "To share that special moment with people from other faith backgrounds, it means a lot to us." Mrs Coskun said she believed having a meal together could also help to break down barriers. "I've had many people over at my house who have never seen a Muslim person before, or maybe they've never seen a woman in a hijab," she said. "They're sitting at my dinner table and just kind of looking at me serving them soup and serving them sweets, and I can see them thinking, 'wow, they're pretty much like us and they're quite normal'." The notion of going without food or water for thirty days also sparks plenty of questions from non-Muslim guests. "They just think we're refraining from food and water, but it's more than that," said 18-year-old Seyma Coskun. "It's about developing more spiritually, it's about doing more good, it's about making better habits." Her eight year-old brother, Huzeyfe, is not obliged to fast until he reaches puberty, but he is trying to join his parents and older sisters. He says his friends are very curious. "They ask, 'is it easy and do you get very hungry?' and I say that I don't eat much, so it's easy for me," he said. Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar and this year runs from June 18 until July 17. Like his wife, Murat Coskun hoped breaking bread with other community members might help foster tolerance and appreciation of cultural diversity. "I think that whilst it's not an obligation for people to know about it, it would not take anything away from them, from knowing about Ramadan, " he said. "It would just add to their depth and I think and it would help them better understand people that they bump into at work, or maybe their neighbours or their friends. "We like to learn about Christmas and how our human brethren live and what they believe in." He said the family looked forward to Ramadan. "It's like the spiritual pinnacle of our year," said Mr Coskun. "It's where we're closest to God and consequently closest to people as well." Acting Assistant Police Commissioner Carter described it as an educational experience. "You know I've learned so much, meeting this family for the first time, sitting down and sharing a meal with them," he said. "They're just like any other Australian family: hard working, very committed and family-orientated." The dinners are coordinated through the Queensland Intercultural Society to foster a better understanding of the Islamic faith. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-02/australian-muslims-use-ramadan-to-break-down-cultural-barriers/6591136 It is a bit of a laugh, all the raving about fasting during ramadan just to have a daily pig out. What a joke. Much like everything else with this lot.

where does it say they pig out?

they can eat after sunset.

I do realize pigs are not halal you know. The pun was intended.

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jul 14^th, 2015 at 9:39pm:

I do realize pigs are not halal you know. The pun was intended.

Messengers/prophets/ people from all religions and cultures fast.

So are they a joke?

wally1 wrote on Jul 14^th, 2015 at 9:42pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 9:39pm: I do realize pigs are not halal you know. The pun was intended. Messengers/prophets/ people from all religions and cultures fast. So are they a joke?

No.
Only Mohammed is a joke. His 'revelations' are so blatantly stupid and tranparently self-serving that you have to be a n illiterate Arab with looting on the brain to fall for any of it.


You cannot possible think that what the Koran says (Mohammed's 'revelation') is a a final blueprint for all humanity.  It a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense.

Soren wrote on Jul 14^th, 2015 at 10:01pm:

wally1 wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 9:42pm: LifeOrDeath wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 9:39pm: I do realize pigs are not halal you know. The pun was intended. Messengers/prophets/ people from all religions and cultures fast. So are they a joke? No. Only Mohammed is a joke. His 'revelations' are so blatantly stupid and tranparently self-serving that you have to be a n illiterate Arab with looting on the brain to fall for any of it. You cannot possible think that what the Koran says (Mohammed's 'revelation') is a a final blueprint for all humanity.  It a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense.

We are talking about fasting.

So what revelation about fasting in Islam is irrelevant?

Soren wrote on Jul 14^th, 2015 at 10:01pm:

You cannot possible think that what the Koran says (Mohammed's 'revelation') is a a final blueprint for all humanity.  It a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense.

Just out of interest - have you ever actually read it?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 15^th, 2015 at 8:21am:

Soren wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:01pm: You cannot possible think that what the Koran says (Mohammed's 'revelation') is a a final blueprint for all humanity.  It a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense. Just out of interest - have you ever actually read it?

I have read it as many times as the majority of Muslims in this world - Allan is merciful, Allan knows best.

So if you have never read it, on what basis can you claim its "a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense"?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 17^th, 2015 at 9:24am:

So if you have never read it, on what basis can you claim its "a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense"?

Claims its non sense but has read it many times.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 17^th, 2015 at 9:24am:

So if you have never read it, on what basis can you claim its "a preposterous load of nonsense.  it is simply incoherent nonsense"?

On the basis of having opened the book, attempting to read it, reading it and then after 30-40-50 minutes looking up and saying:

"This is simply the most preposterous load of bewildered bollocks anyone has ever encountered."

And I am sure that this was EXACTLY your experience. There is no possibillty for any other intelligent human response. You are violating your own intelligence if you say that the Koran is a coherent, cohesive, inspiring and accessible book.  It is not possible for an intelligent human being to read the Koran and not see it for the turgid, incoherent mish-mash it is.

What is amazing is that it is SO incoherent and yet  so many people are happy to pretend it isn't.

Yadda doesnt seem to have any trouble understanding it. He hasn't read it either though.