Tens of thousands angry about Centrelink: 15,000 complaints about phone service

Date
    October 29, 2015
    Canberra Times

Centrelink received 10,000 more complaints last financial year with the extra grumbling caused by the agency's besieged phone service.   :(

Rubbing salt into the wound for the Department of Human Services was the fact customer satisfaction with Centrelink appeared to be going backward across the board. 


Centrelink is dealing with many thousands not happy with its service on the phone.

The department's annual report recorded a sharp drop in praise Centrelink across the same period.

In 2014–15 the department recorded 62,691 complaints about Centrelink services, a 19 per cent increase on the previous year.

The top three complaints by volume were difficulties with phone services, including complaints about being left on-hold, engaged signals and call disconnections.

This annoyed people enough to lodge more than 15,000 grievances.

Some of these would have needed to overcome their frustrations at the phone service to contact Centrelink via phone to lodge their complaint.

The second highest proportion of gripes came about because of dissatisfaction with departmental staff or a contractor.   :(

This included a problem with the staff member's attitude or behaviour, lack of knowledge about what the employee was talking about and staff not taking agreed action.   :(

This prompted 16.4 per cent or more than 10,000 complaints.

Dissatisfaction in the time it took Centrelink to process claims and to make and review decisions was not far behind.   

Centrelink received 1136 fewer compliments, a drop of 18 per cent.

Centrelink and its parent department came under sustained criticism this year after an Australian National Audit Office report found nearly a quarter of the 57 million phone calls made to Centrelink last year went unanswered.

The number of calls blocked - those not allowed into the queuing system when it was handling large volumes - grew from 13 million in 2013-2014, to more than 22 million in 2014-2015.

Department secretary Kathryn Campbell hit back at the auditor's report earlier this year, saying waiting times on Centrelink's phone lines had improved by an average of 26 seconds to 16 minutes and 27 seconds.

In June Ms Campbell said it was not clear how many were abandoning calls after receiving the information they needed from pre-recorded messages.

Two smaller agencies run by DHS, Medicare and Child Support, which received about 35,000 pieces of customer feedback between them, both recorded improvements, according to the annual report.

Complaints about Medicare decreased by 2 per cent and compliments increased by 7 per cent.

Again problems with the phone service - including disconnections, engaged signals and wait times - topped the list of complaints.

This was followed by difficulties using the Medicare website, including items being unavailable online or hard to find.

Child support received 7 per cent less complaints while the number of compliments remained the same compared to the previous year.

The DHS report said responses to resolve complaints may include "an apology, an explanation of the policy, correcting a customer's record, review of a decision, case management, or referral to an external organisation".

DHS compensated less customers in 2014-15 for administrative errors.

The department paid 2820 customer compensation claims last financial year compared to 3101 in 2013–14.

Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D

Some people are never satisfied.... :D

Swagman wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:55am:

Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D

A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket.

Not those down here.  They've had their share of doing the carer work, some have endured serious injury in life, and others are just like me - simple genuine caring human beings.  Only the occasional newfer can be a problem due to lack of ability and sometimes ego issues.

Sometimes it's better that some people remain less than 'equal' by modern standards.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket.

And they should........ because it is  :D

Swagman wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:55am:

Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D

Maybe they are a lot of bludgers that sit on forums during working hours !!  ;)

Unemployment can happen to anyone anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Even centrelink staff.   :(   

We all pay taxes every day - income tax isn't the only tax in town, and because someone has more to spend doesn't mean they should cop a reduction in their overall taxes.  What an absurdity.

I suppose the idea should be that you have a limit on the amount of sales tax you should have to pay in a year - once you reach X amount of dollars you pay no more since it's such a terrible burden, so Jamie Packer can buy a couple of nice jets and stuff without paying any tax on purchase, while all those on the lowest end continue to pay their percentage.

I'd say he'd run out of his sales tax burden under that system in a week..... or a day.... and the rest should be cream, while Joe Yob gets to pay every day of the year.

Sounds fair.... Thatcher would be proud of that one.

wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:27am:

Unemployment can happen to anyone anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Even centrelink staff.   :(

EMPLOYMENT can happen to anyone anytime. Of course these means you have to TRY - which explains you.

Hands up all the unemployed, that know how long they will be out of work.  Holly gee, look at that.  We cant see any hands up.   :(

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket.

So do dumb conservatives.

It doesn't.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket.

This is a great mental attitude and shows respect for their employer (the taxpayer).  I would give such centrelink staff a bonus payment.

wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:36am:

Hands up all the unemployed, that know how long they will be out of work.  Holly gee, look at that.  We cant see any hands up.   :(

The way this country is going, some will be out of work for life...... unless they find a black market niche.. prohibition.... bathtub gin...... you name it..... then the society will wonder at the rise in crime etc....

Dumb As....

Kat wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:40am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. So do dumb conservatives. It doesn't.

correct, it comes from the savings of hard working chinese and will have to be repaid by the young children of today.

centrelink could perhaps play a message on
"intergenerational theft" as the call waiting message to customers who are held up on the phone.

maybe some who have a conscience will hang up

aquascoot wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:45am:

Kat wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. So do dumb conservatives. It doesn't. correct, it comes from the savings of hard working chinese and will have to be repaid by the young children of today. centrelink could perhaps play a message on "intergenerational theft" as the call waiting message to customers who are held up on the phone. maybe some who have a conscience will hang up

Rubbish!

aquascoot wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:43am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. This is a great mental attitude and shows respect for their employer (the taxpayer).  I would give such centrelink staff a bonus payment.

The recipients of Social Security Rights ARE taxpayers - every day in every way apart from income tax, and even when they work they pay that.

Answer:-  provide full employment and get ass many as possible paying income tax, then chop the GST - it was only ever a stopgap to plug the hole caused by corporate/government rape of employment and the plan to create a perpetual pool of un- and under-employed as a social control measure.

Is No Money - Is No Problem!  Canberra Rules... the less money the most aggrieved in society have, the less opportunity they have to change things or oppose anything..  those with the most to say have no voice..... and if they're desperate enough they'll do our bidding without question for the chance to turn a buck.

well, maybe those tens of thousands should boycott centrelink ??

**slow page**

Funny how that happens in any controversial discussion here...

grappler -
Quote:

...............Answer:-  provide full employment ......

that is everyones dream.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:43am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. This is a great mental attitude and shows respect for their employer (the taxpayer).  I would give such centrelink staff a bonus payment.

I'm sure you would and champagne and cigars and a free holiday.

Luckily Centrelink clients have the option to appeal.

Kat wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:45am: Kat wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. So do dumb conservatives. It doesn't. correct, it comes from the savings of hard working chinese and will have to be repaid by the young children of today. centrelink could perhaps play a message on "intergenerational theft" as the call waiting message to customers who are held up on the phone. maybe some who have a conscience will hang up Rubbish!

well, after reading your very well thought out counter arguement , i have decided not to ammend my opinion at this time  ;)

Why is it so hard for some to accept that a public service is there to provide service.. and when it fails, it should be castigated for failure to do its job.

Oh, I get it - under an LNP government public service is optional and at the discretion of the provider.....

**back in the trenches at Chalk Pop Hill:-

"Awright, lads - we're off over the top and go get us some Faroffistanis!  Who's with me?"

"Sorry, Sarge.. it's our RDO.. and with recent cuts you know we can only provide a 20% service.... go it alone and we'll catch up when we can, OK?"

I thought a counter argument was a discussion over a beer and steak sandwich at the pub bistro....  just saying....

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:50am:

that is everyones dream.

Nonsense.  The entire economy is based around a manageable amount of unemployment.  The minute that there are more jobs than people, the minute people have no incentive to stick with one job.

Would be great for workers, but I doubt employers would find it a positive force.


aquascoot wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:51am:

well, after reading your very well thought out counter arguement , i have decided not to ammend my opinion at this time

Every minute unemployed people spend on hold or trying to contact centerlink is a minute they aren't looking/applying/writing resumes/writing cover letters/networking.

This faffing about doesn't do anything.  Disclaimer:  never received any centerlink payments of any kind.

Of course, if NewStart was increased there would be more economic activity and more jobs so more income tax would be paid.

In the meantime while rightards, none overblessed with brains, whinge and make fun of NewStart recipients, the top 10% of income earners cost all taxpayers $50Bn this year and MUCH more next year just in tax exemption on superannuation alone. I suppose these are the “good” type of bludgers  :D

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:43am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. This is a great mental attitude and shows respect for their employer (the taxpayer).  I would give such centrelink staff a bonus payment. I'm sure you would and champagne and cigars and a free holiday. Luckily Centrelink clients have the option to appeal.

centrelink staff, if they are to do their job properly would have to spend several years with many clients.

many clients have a negative attitude to life and a total misunderstanding of how to construct a happy life.

to "rewrite the software" in their brains , so they could learn to be

charged
positive
optomistic
self actualised

individuals would require , literally , a lifetime of retraining.

its an investment that the system is incapable of making.

how many of the unemployed would consider going to the library and borrowing (for free) Tony Robbins international best seller  Awaken the Giant Within, to read whilst they were held up on the phone or standing in the queue at centrelink.

They are so lacking in the mental muscle of self discipline, they cant even choose an apple over a chocolate bar.

It is their life and it will be over in an instant.

if they dont aim to improve then they will assume the default position of failure.

Most species that have ever walked the face of the earth are exinct.
Failure and extinction are hte natural order of things unless you take action  ;) ;)

aquascoot wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:51am:

Kat wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:48am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:45am: Kat wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. So do dumb conservatives. It doesn't. correct, it comes from the savings of hard working chinese and will have to be repaid by the young children of today. centrelink could perhaps play a message on "intergenerational theft" as the call waiting message to customers who are held up on the phone. maybe some who have a conscience will hang up Rubbish! well, after reading your very well thought out counter arguement , i have decided not to ammend my opinion at this time  ;)

In that case, you will remain wrong.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:32am:

wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:27am: Unemployment can happen to anyone anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Even centrelink staff.   :(    EMPLOYMENT can happen to anyone anytime. Of course these means you have to TRY - which explains you.

Yes, but it can't happen to everyone, hence there will be people who need assistance.

Kytro wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:04am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:32am: wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:27am: Unemployment can happen to anyone anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Even centrelink staff.   :(    EMPLOYMENT can happen to anyone anytime. Of course these means you have to TRY - which explains you. Yes, but it can't happen to everyone, hence there will be people who need assistance.

maria said it can.....shame it doesn't happen to her.....and her wife

**page turner**

Swagman wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:55am:

Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D

Who said it is free money it is only your opinion

I am on the old age pension and I work for 50 years paying my fair share of taxes, and I never complain about the amount  of taxes I paid.

I know that the taxes I paid back then help to paid for the pension to the people that done it hard during the depression, it also help to paid for the veterans that fought in the first and second world wars to make as free. It also help to built public schools and hospital that you can use today. My taxes I paid back then when I was working, also paid for the roads that you are using today, not like today when they built a road the put a toll on it if you want to drive on it.

So never come and said it is free money we have paid for it many times over, just think yourself lucky that we paid taxes and built all the infrastructure that you are using today.

Theoretically, everyone should be unemployed who is not a boss, and then labour can be drawn from a single endless pool of supplicants begging for a bowl of soup.  It's called part-time casual on call and on demand...

Man - how the economy would boom for the better classes then, business would run smoothly and on time, no industrial relations to worry about, no need to appease the peasants with a few tawdry dollars thrown their way, the market for Julia's 'high quality finished goods' that we produce so abundantly here would boom...... ah yes...... and everyone would benefit from this Max-Thatcherite program!!!

If Longy were here he'd explain it to us in hirsute and arcane mathematical terms and we could all be happy and breathe a sigh of relief.... he's that good!

Labor voter wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:34am:

Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D Who said it is free money it is only your opinion I am on the old age pension and I work for 50 years paying my fair share of taxes, and I never complain about the amount  of taxes I paid. I know that the taxes I paid back then help to paid for the pension to the people that done it hard during the depression, it also help to paid for the veterans that fought in the first and second world wars to make as free. It also help to built public schools and hospital that you can use today. My taxes I paid back then when I was working, also paid for the roads that you are using today, not like today when they built a road the put a toll on it if you want to drive on it. So never come and said it is free money we have paid for it many times over, just think yourself lucky that we paid taxes and built all the infrastructure that you are using today.

Well put!  Points a finger like a searchlight at some aspects of the reasons behind the decline of the West - the big sellout and selloff that has wrecked everything, alongside the ultra-socialist nonsense seeping out of Darkest Europe these days.

Kytro wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:04am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:32am: wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:27am: Unemployment can happen to anyone anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Even centrelink staff.   :(    EMPLOYMENT can happen to anyone anytime. Of course these means you have to TRY - which explains you. Yes, but it can't happen to everyone, hence there will be people who need assistance.

Not saying anything other than what you are saying, but we hear a lot of on here is about unemployment lifestyle. Has crook ever had a job? Most on here seem to be unemployed since they are here all day every day. Probably the people who should be posting more on topics like this are the ones who cant - because they are at work!

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:40am:

but we hear a lot of on here is about unemployment lifestyle.

only from dumb rightards

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:40am:

Not saying anything other than what you are saying, but we hear a lot of on here is about unemployment lifestyle. Has crook ever had a job? Most on here seem to be unemployed since they are here all day every day. Probably the people who should be posting more on topics like this are the ones who cant - because they are at work!

Why would you post on the subject of unemployment when you are working all day? Just so you can primp your own ego by finger-pointing at people with less than you? Jayzuz - that's the road to hell right there...  herh, herh - I make all of a hundred bucks a day so I'm better than you.. herh, herh.  Attitude of peasants still groveling in their own social pig sty....

Again - those with the most to say have the least voice in this society, since they lack the economic wherewithal to go out and garner all the contacts and the 'qualifications' needed to become a political animal - so they languish at the bottom of the pile and suck it up every time another downward turn comes along, and never get the chance to be heard other than on fora such as this.

The internet is the politician's worst enemy - and rightly so.

Bring Back The Tumbrils!

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 8:40am: but we hear a lot of on here is about unemployment lifestyle. only from dumb rightards

Spot on - what lifestyle is there on $250 a week?  A little desperate drug dealing?  the inability to even get pissed to forget for a while?  Shagging a scrag since no woman of class will look at you?  Cop a rousting from the constabulary because you must be no good if you've got nothing?  Fail another job interview because Mary Rich with the private school  education's parents can dress her better and you can't even afford a haircut, and even if you get to Uni you can't live on student money alone, which is all you've got?

Oh - yes - I forgot - sitting on the beach all day taking in the rays (man), and just enjoying that outdoors life while sucking back a case a day and eating like a king.... all on $250 a week.

Reminds me of The Last Tycoon.... guy had his kitchen table set up on a beach and wined and dined a classy lady while wearing a tuxedo.. all on nothing....

I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem.

they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that.

The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns

May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in.

What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence?

Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen.

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns

Gets us back to the argument (nay - call it a dispute) over the difference between the handling of the fully franked (bought and paid for) Pension, and superannuation that is not fully paid for at any time during its life.

A person on super can get as much as the market will bear in a year, after several tax concessions along the way, yet a person on a pension that has been fully paid for over fifty years of work is chopped off at the knees for anything and everything.

One reason why the entire system of retirement funding needs overhaul, and I see the solution is to pay everyone the pension, no questions asked, and treat all income above that the same for taxation.  that would recoup some of the tax concessions that super has garnered along the way - and don't forget - pension is fully the recipient's money since it had no tax concessions at all along the way - whereas super is subsidised several times.

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:09am:

May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in. What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence? Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen.

Sounds a little extreme - having enough people to do the job is what is required - but a better alternative is for government to actually function to reduce the NEED for people to do that job, rather than just cutting them out to save a few shekels.

Government does that by actually producing work opportunities rather than level-pegging and then laying claim to having 'created' jobs, while the reality is that not a single job has been created EXTRA to what was already around - just a few deckchairs were shuffled for a better view of the iceberg.

Having enough low order public servants to do the actual work won't lead us to a Communist style state, just to one where the stress level is ratcheted down a level or two.

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns

You seem to have a lot of problems with Centrelink, John.

Might be easier to just get a job.

Now there's a thought!

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem.

This is called "deeming" and it is a crock. It is one of the few interest rates in Australia that is not set by the RBA or the market. It is set by a Minister in the government (Minister for Social Services, not the Treasurer or Minister for Finance) and it is pure fiction.

The deeming rate currently has a maximum interest rate of 3.25%. This is higher than the highest market rate with the major banks, which is about 3%.

It is also interesting that the DHS page on deeming explains what happens if the actual interest rate is higher (the pensioner keeps the extra income) but does not explain what happens if the actual interest rate is lower (which it is likely to be currently): money is taken from pensioners. Because the deeming rate is higher than the market rate, pensioners all around the country are being robbed.

Deeming is one reason why we should consider abolishing the means test for the aged pension (so everybody over the retirement age can access it) and pay for it by abolishing tax concessions for retirees. Deeming would go. It greatly simplifies the tax and pension system and provides better balance. This simpler system would also be less costly to administer.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:13am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Gets us back to the argument (nay - call it a dispute) over the difference between the handling of the fully franked (bought and paid for) Pension, and superannuation that is not fully paid for at any time during its life. A person on super can get as much as the market will bear in a year, after several tax concessions along the way, yet a person on a pension that has been fully paid for over fifty years of work is chopped off at the knees for anything and everything. One reason why the entire system of retirement funding needs overhaul, and I see the solution is to pay everyone the pension, no questions asked, and treat all income above that the same for taxation.  that would recoup some of the tax concessions that super has garnered along the way - and don't forget - pension is fully the recipient's money since it had no tax concessions at all along the way - whereas super is subsidised several times.

100% agree with your solution. How much of the pension do you think should be tax free?

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns

Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades.

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:09am:

May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in. What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence? Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen.

who do you want to staff them boges? the Chinese? the Indians? they're infuriating enough to deal with without having some knob who can't speak English

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:43am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns You seem to have a lot of problems with Centrelink, John. Might be easier to just get a job. Now there's a thought!

you don't read to well .. it's not my problem but my neighbours

Bam wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:13am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Gets us back to the argument (nay - call it a dispute) over the difference between the handling of the fully franked (bought and paid for) Pension, and superannuation that is not fully paid for at any time during its life. A person on super can get as much as the market will bear in a year, after several tax concessions along the way, yet a person on a pension that has been fully paid for over fifty years of work is chopped off at the knees for anything and everything. One reason why the entire system of retirement funding needs overhaul, and I see the solution is to pay everyone the pension, no questions asked, and treat all income above that the same for taxation.  that would recoup some of the tax concessions that super has garnered along the way - and don't forget - pension is fully the recipient's money since it had no tax concessions at all along the way - whereas super is subsidised several times. 100% agree with your solution. How much of the pension do you think should be tax free?

I've thought this on through before.... pension should be entirely tax free since it is paid for already, and then income above that is treated the same as everything else for income tax.

Roughly, under such a regime compared to the current debacle, a person would need to be garnering $100k pa from super for it to have any impact.

It would also cut out the current farce of working pensioners being slugged not only for pension reduction, but also for tax on their pension added to earnings.  You call that fair when super gets three tax concessions along the way and then is exempt, and a pension paid for gets no tax exemptions but is created out of part of income tax on gross?

Simple solution, and would remove the need for endless Centrelink employees, while adding to the ATO.  Probably a fair balance and a lot simpler.

Gotta go.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 10:53am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades.

and that makes it OK?

Yes it does Fords...yes it does  ;)

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 10:58am:

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:09am: May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in. What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence? Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen. who do you want to staff them boges? the Chinese? the Indians? they're infuriating enough to deal with without having some knob who can't speak English

Linguaphobe!!!

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:18am:

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:09am: May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in. What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence? Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen. Sounds a little extreme

Not extreme, poetic license

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 8:40am:

Kytro wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 8:04am: mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:32am: wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:27am: Unemployment can happen to anyone anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Even centrelink staff.   :(    EMPLOYMENT can happen to anyone anytime. Of course these means you have to TRY - which explains you. Yes, but it can't happen to everyone, hence there will be people who need assistance. Not saying anything other than what you are saying, but we hear a lot of on here is about unemployment lifestyle. Has crook ever had a job? Most on here seem to be unemployed since they are here all day every day. Probably the people who should be posting more on topics like this are the ones who cant - because they are at work!

Yes, except you mob denigrate people who YOU BELIEVE are not working, then denigrate them again if they ARE working.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 9:43am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns You seem to have a lot of problems with Centrelink, John. Might be easier to just get a job. Now there's a thought!

Actually, that's one thing it almost certainly wasn't.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 11:14am:

Yes it does Fords...yes it does  ;)

No.

It does not.

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:18am: bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:09am: May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in. What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence? Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen. Sounds a little extreme Not extreme, poetic license

Ah - that explains it.

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK?

Like many another issue surrounding governance here - it has not kept pace with the times, and just because it was always done that way does not mean it should always remain that way.

If we were to adhere to that religion, women would be home with the bairns where they belong.

Try to keep up with the 20th century - then we move on to the 21st.

It's like the rules for business tax deductions -set up in the Industrial Revolution to cater to those more deserving souls who invested money in profit-making, and have yet to come to the reality that since we are all 'separate legal entities' we should all be treated the same.

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 11:22am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:58am: bogarde73 wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:09am: May I just say that it is you people - you John, Grappler (whose rant I just enjoyed immensely) and the rest of the mainly left - who want these government monoliths staffed by as many public servants as you can stuff in. What the hell do you think is going to happen when you give so much power to jumped up little bureaucrats, unless you happen to be someone who they are not sure might not know people of influence? Soviet Russia, East Germany, Red China - that's what's going to happen. who do you want to staff them boges? the Chinese? the Indians? they're infuriating enough to deal with without having some knob who can't speak English Linguaphobe!!!

not at all ...I just prefer to be able to understand the rules when someone is citing them.

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK?

The poster was seeking and explanation, not a justification. Do you know what those two big words mean?

Centerlink are basically retarded, anyone who has dealt with them knows that, the last time I was on unemployment, I swear to god they lost my paperwork/cut payments incorrectly at least once a month if not more. I would find my payments cut for "missing a meeting" which I actually attended. It was a nightmare getting on it anyway, the company I worked for was liquidated and yet they still wanted proof I wasn't working there despite I showed them the liquidation papers  ::)

As bad as centerlink was, Jobactive is literally the worst piece of crap I've ever experienced in my life, whoever designed that policy needs to be taken behind a shed and shot. Giving the incredibly corrupt and absolutely useless job agencies 100% complete power was always going to turn into a clusterbugger. MAX employment, Salvos, ORS, their board members need to be dragged in front of the high court in chains.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 3:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 11:00am: mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK? The poster was seeking and explanation, not a justification. Do you know what those two big words mean?

really? the poster was seeking justification? care to show me where?  You do know that little word, don't you? :D :D :D :D

Kiron22 wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

Centerlink are basically retarded, anyone who has dealt with them knows that, the last time I was on unemployment, I swear to god they lost my paperwork/cut payments incorrectly at least once a month if not more. I would find my payments cut for "missing a meeting" which I actually attended. It was a nightmare getting on it anyway, the company I worked for was liquidated and yet they still wanted proof I wasn't working there despite I showed them the liquidation papers  ::) As bad as centerlink was, Jobactive is literally the worst piece of crap I've ever experienced in my life, whoever designed that policy needs to be taken behind a shed and shot. Giving the incredibly corrupt and absolutely useless job agencies 100% complete power was always going to turn into a clusterbugger. MAX employment, Salvos, ORS, their board members need to be dragged in front of the high court in chains.

You might be a candidate for the coming revolution.

Bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK?

That's bs.....there's no 'deeming rate' when calculating interest on savings.

Would the ATO work your tax out that way?

No, they calculate it on bank records. Someone stuffed up in your neighbours case John, but they didn't want to admit to it.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 5:46pm:

That's bs.....there's no 'deeming rate' when calculating interest on savings.

'When it comes to assessing income from your financial investments, the Government assumes that you will be earning a certain rate of return, regardless of the actual interest rate that you receive. This system is known as deeming.

Deeming applies to most financial investments, with a few notable exceptions including real estate and business assets.
So, what assets are deemed?

Centrelink use the terminology of ‘financial investments’ for those assets that are deemed. This list includes:

    term deposits
    bank accounts
    shares and managed funds
    loans to family members
    superannuation funds, if you are age pension age
    account-based pensions taken out after 1 January 2015 (or for those account-based pensions purchased before 1 January 2015 where you are not in receipt of Income Support payment from the Government)'

https://thesmartmoney.com.au/deeming-rates-changes-march-2015/

Don't like dealing with the clock watchers in the dole office, if only there was something you could do.


Nup, got nuthin.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 5:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 11:00am: mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK? That's bs.....there's no 'deeming rate' when calculating interest on savings. Would the ATO work your tax out that way? No, they calculate it on bank records. Someone stuffed up in your neighbours case John, but they didn't want to admit to it.

Another ignoramus that doesnt understand that a 'deeming rate' is the RATE that is DEEMED to apply regardless of the ACTUAL rate.

The tinfoil hat is on too tight I think!

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 5:38pm:

really? the poster was seeking justification? care to show me where?  You do know that little word, don't you? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

bump for Maria

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 7:11pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 11:00am: mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK? That's bs.....there's no 'deeming rate' when calculating interest on savings. Would the ATO work your tax out that way? No, they calculate it on bank records. Someone stuffed up in your neighbours case John, but they didn't want to admit to it. Another ignoramus that doesnt understand that a 'deeming rate' is the RATE that is DEEMED to apply regardless of the ACTUAL rate. The tinfoil hat is on too tight I think!

Centrelink will always calculate your interest on the ACTUAL rate that is applied by the bank.

This figure is very easy to obtain from a bank statement.

No 'deemed to apply' about it sweetheart and stop making sh1t up.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 6:02am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:11pm: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 11:00am: mariacostel wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:53am: John Smith wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:01am: I had a neighbor come in all pissed off yesterday after having dealt wit centrelink all day, trying to find out why they were docking his pension. .... after two visits to the local centrelink office, having security called on him for daring to call them idiots, and multiple phone calls, they worked out they were docking his pension because they ASSUMED he was earning so much in interest on some money he had in a bank account ... when he told them the account earned 0.1% interest and not the 6% they were assuming, they told him that it wasn't their problem. they ended up calling security on him again when he replied to that. The problem with centrelink is that they don't actually listen to their clients .. they're programmed to say certain things at certain times, like the good little robots they are, without ever addressing the clients concerns Its called the 'deeming rate'.  It has been around for decades. and that makes it OK? That's bs.....there's no 'deeming rate' when calculating interest on savings. Would the ATO work your tax out that way? No, they calculate it on bank records. Someone stuffed up in your neighbours case John, but they didn't want to admit to it. Another ignoramus that doesnt understand that a 'deeming rate' is the RATE that is DEEMED to apply regardless of the ACTUAL rate. The tinfoil hat is on too tight I think! Centrelink will always calculate your interest on the ACTUAL rate that is applied by the bank. This figure is very easy to obtain from a bank statement. No 'deemed to apply' about it sweetheart and stop making sh1t up.

So now the deeming rate no long applies? BTW this applies to PENSIONERS.

A few years ago I was retrenched from my job
with over half the staff - on one afternoon - without warning.

It took me over 6 months to find another job & in that time Centerlink
did absolutely nothing to help me -
no money, no proper advice, no health card ,
no card at all to enable me to get cheap rego or other services.

Centerlink basically told me to f.  off.

At the same time a guy who walked in there with tattoos all over his face
& obviously unemployable was given the red carpet treatment.
It was clear that they couldn't do enough to help him.

Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice
that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong.
The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves.

Centerlink sucks.

Maybe the people you were dealing with were homophobic Bobby?

The staff were threatened by you Bobby, they probably thought you looked smart enough to challenge them for their job.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 9:07am:

The staff were threatened by you Bobby, they probably thought you looked smart enough to challenge them for their job.

I could see them thinking when I talked to them -

they were thinking -

" how can we get out of helping this person in any way  possible? "

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 8:56am:

Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks.

Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty.

If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment.

Bam wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 9:42am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment.

I never had access to the rules.

It seemed to me that they made them up.

Ask 5 different Centerlink people &
you'll get 5 different answers.
In my case I had a redundancy pay out which
also consisted of Long Service leave & holiday pay.

When they saw that I had a lot of money they didn't want to know me.


They did however what to know the guy with tattoos all over his face -
they couldn't do enough to help him.

Bam wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 9:42am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment.

I find that a lot of it they (centrelink) bring upon themselves, eiter deliberately or through stupidity ... I remember when I applied for the baby bonus they wanted a copy of my lease ... when I asked 'why' they said they needed to assess if I was eligible for rent assistance. I told them I didn't want rent assistance but was told tough, they have to do it as part of the baby bonus application. What should have been a simple process, with a simple form and a copy of my last tax return, turned into a 3 month nightmare with about 6 different internet log in accounts (none of which worked). In the end I walked in, dropped some paperwork on their front desk and told them that was all they were getting .. pay the bonus, keep it, I didn't care anymore.

ridiculous.

John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 9:51am:

Bam wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:42am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment. I find that a lot of it they (centrelink) bring upon themselves, eiter deliberately or through stupidity ... I remember when I applied for the baby bonus they wanted a copy of my lease ... when I asked 'why' they said they needed to assess if I was eligible for rent assistance. I told them I didn't want rent assistance but was told tough, they have to do it as part of the baby bonus application. What should have been a simple process, with a simple form and a copy of my last tax return, turned into a 3 month nightmare with about 6 different internet log in accounts (none of which worked). In the end I walked in, dropped some paperwork on their front desk and told them that was all they were getting .. pay the bonus, keep it, I didn't care anymore. ridiculous.

A baby bonus -  ohh no

more John Smiths   ;D

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:00am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:51am: Bam wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:42am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment. I find that a lot of it they (centrelink) bring upon themselves, eiter deliberately or through stupidity ... I remember when I applied for the baby bonus they wanted a copy of my lease ... when I asked 'why' they said they needed to assess if I was eligible for rent assistance. I told them I didn't want rent assistance but was told tough, they have to do it as part of the baby bonus application. What should have been a simple process, with a simple form and a copy of my last tax return, turned into a 3 month nightmare with about 6 different internet log in accounts (none of which worked). In the end I walked in, dropped some paperwork on their front desk and told them that was all they were getting .. pay the bonus, keep it, I didn't care anymore. ridiculous. A baby bonus -  ohh no more John Smiths   ;D

two of them actually  ;)

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 9:49am:

Bam wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:42am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment. I never had access to the rules.

The legislation is available online. You can even take a look if you have a sense of morbid curiosity. Just the thing to do on Halloween.


Quote:

It seemed to me that they made them up. Ask 5 different Centerlink people & you'll get 5 different answers.

That's not unusual. But I maintain that it's not the staff's fault that the rules are so complex they have difficulty with them.


Quote:

In my case I had a redundancy pay out which also consisted of Long Service leave & holiday pay. When they saw that I had a lot of money they didn't want to know me.

Yes, they expected you to use up your leave entitlements first. You would have been eligible for payment after the leave was used up.

That rule has been around for decades.

I agree though that they should have been more helpful.


Quote:

They did however what to know the guy with tattoos all over his face - they couldn't do enough to help him.

Best not to judge others by appearance. That doesn't mean you weren't correct in your assessment, but you don't actually know for sure.

Too many people are too quick to judge others on insufficient information. That's why anyone out of work for six months finds it very difficult to get work. Employers just assume they are unemployable without even calling them in for an interview. It's crazy.

You found work though, good on you. Not everyone who is retrenched is so fortunate.

Hi Bam,

the fact was - they gave me nothing -

after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:14am:

I felt entitled to something.

you felt entitled? were you a politician?

John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:15am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: I felt entitled to something. you felt entitled? were you a politician?

When I was working for that last company -
in the final week I completed a job which went out the door
that was worth $150,000.

The Govt. got $15,000  GST as a result of my - actually 2 weeks work.

I estimated that I had created millions of dollars in GST for the Govt. over my time with that company -
yet they don't take that into account when you go to Centerlink.

It's not fair - they want to take money
but they don't want to give it back.

hey, I'm with you booby ... I'm forever paying GST ... smacking things a pain in the arse.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 9:49am:

Bam wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:42am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment. I never had access to the rules. It seemed to me that they made them up. Ask 5 different Centerlink people & you'll get 5 different answers. In my case I had a redundancy pay out which also consisted of Long Service leave & holiday pay. When they saw that I had a lot of money they didn't want to know me. They did however what to know the guy with tattoos all over his face - they couldn't do enough to help him.

You cant get the dole until your holiday or LSL time is over. It seems harsh, but it isnt really. But it does seem unfair that if you save and put money away they will effectively penalise you. I is one of the common problems of the welfare state in that by looking after those with nothing you effectively penalise those with something. And often 'something' was obtained by hard work and responsible spending while 'nothing' was obtained by the opposite.  It is inherently unfair, but what is the alternative?

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:27am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:15am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: I felt entitled to something. you felt entitled? were you a politician? When I was working for that last company - in the final week I completed a job which went out the door that was worth $150,000. The Govt. got $15,000  GST as a result of my - actually 2 weeks work. I estimated that I had created millions of dollars in GST for the Govt. over my time with that company - yet they don't take that into account when you go to Centerlink. It's not fair - they want to take money but they don't want to give it back.

That's not how it works and nor should it. YOU didnt make that GST. Your company did.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:42am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:27am: John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:15am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: I felt entitled to something. you felt entitled? were you a politician? When I was working for that last company - in the final week I completed a job which went out the door that was worth $150,000. The Govt. got $15,000  GST as a result of my - actually 2 weeks work. I estimated that I had created millions of dollars in GST for the Govt. over my time with that company - yet they don't take that into account when you go to Centerlink. It's not fair - they want to take money but they don't want to give it back. That's not how it works and nor should it. YOU didnt make that GST. Your company did.

Dear Longy,
If I would not have done the work & therefore
not got the job ready to ship out
the Govt. would not have got their GST.

That's the way it works.

If you want Centerlink money -

get tattoos all over your face -
make sure you have no money in the bank -
don't have a shower for one week -

then they will hand over your  money - it's that simple.

Maybe that will help some people to get money out of them?

John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:31am:

hey, I'm with you booby ... I'm forever paying GST ... smacking things a pain in the arse.

My company pays over 40 different taxes - directly & indirectly.

I don't know how any company can survive -

the tax onslaught.

Companies are seen as cash cows ready to be milked.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:42am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:27am: John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:15am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: I felt entitled to something. you felt entitled? were you a politician? When I was working for that last company - in the final week I completed a job which went out the door that was worth $150,000. The Govt. got $15,000  GST as a result of my - actually 2 weeks work. I estimated that I had created millions of dollars in GST for the Govt. over my time with that company - yet they don't take that into account when you go to Centerlink. It's not fair - they want to take money but they don't want to give it back. That's not how it works and nor should it. YOU didnt make that GST. Your company did.

So who made the product to sell Bobby or the company

if everyone wants to be technical, neither Bobby nor the company paid the GST, they are merely the tax collectors  ...

the CUSTOMERS paid the GST

John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:58am:

if everyone wants to be technical, neither Bobby nor the company paid the GST, they are merely the tax collectors  ... the CUSTOMERS paid the GST

The Govt. still drains the money out of my hard work.

It's money I can't get -

& it's money that they won't give back if I ever lose MY JOB.

Bam wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:49am: Bam wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 9:42am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 8:56am: Centerlink was almost impossible to contact over the phone - a one hour wait was normal with poor advice that was always different to other Centerlink "advice" & wrong. The people who work there don't even know the rules themselves. Centerlink sucks. Have you had a look at the rules? You need a law degree to understand them all. Multiple Acts of Parliament, each running to many hundreds of sections and heavily modified. Very complex legislation makes for very complex rules. I am not surprised that they have difficulty. If the legislation was simplified, the rules would be easier to follow for everyone. We can start by abolishing numerous petty reasons to cut payments. There's no need for the constant cattle prod treatment. I never had access to the rules. The legislation is available online. You can even take a look if you have a sense of morbid curiosity. Just the thing to do on Halloween. Quote: It seemed to me that they made them up. Ask 5 different Centerlink people & you'll get 5 different answers. That's not unusual. But I maintain that it's not the staff's fault that the rules are so complex they have difficulty with them. [quote]In my case I had a redundancy pay out which also consisted of Long Service leave & holiday pay. When they saw that I had a lot of money they didn't want to know me.

Yes, they expected you to use up your leave entitlements first. You would have been eligible for payment after the leave was used up.

That rule has been around for decades.

I agree though that they should have been more helpful.


Quote:

They did however what to know the guy with tattoos all over his face - they couldn't do enough to help him.

Best not to judge others by appearance. That doesn't mean you weren't correct in your assessment, but you don't actually know for sure.

Too many people are too quick to judge others on insufficient information. That's why anyone out of work for six months finds it very difficult to get work. Employers just assume they are unemployable without even calling them in for an interview. It's crazy.

You found work though, good on you. Not everyone who is retrenched is so fortunate.
[/quote]


Thanks.

Why can't the Govt. just be honest?

Just tell people on TV -

if you lose your job & you have money
you won't get any help from Centerlink.

It doesn't matter how much taxes you've paid or how unfair it is.

John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:58am:

if everyone wants to be technical, neither Bobby nor the company paid the GST, they are merely the tax collectors  ... the CUSTOMERS paid the GST

The Govt. still drains the money out of my hard work.

It's money I can't get -

& it's money that they won't give back if I ever lose MY JOB.

It's 2015 & still the forum can't get pages to flip.

I know a bloke who had a heart attack - then a quadruple bypass -

& he couldn't get the DSP or one cent out of Centerlink.

Why? - because he has savings in the Bank from all his hard work that had caused the heart attack.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 6:02am:

Centrelink will always calculate your interest on the ACTUAL rate that is applied by the bank.

Nope-

'Deeming is used to calculate income for assessment of your payment.

From 1 July 2015:

    if you're single and receive an income support payment, the first $48,600 of your financial investments is deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum
    if you're a member of a couple and at least one of you receive a pension, the first $80,600 of your and your partner's combined financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum, or
    if you're a member of a couple and neither of you receive a pension, the first $40,300 for each of your own and your share of jointly owned financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum

If you earn more than the deemed rates

If your investment return is higher than the deemed income we calculate, the extra income doesn't count towards your assessable income for your income support payment.'

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/deeming

Just added a poll:

Should a heart attack + a quadruple bypass = the DSP?


The DSP is the Disability Support Pension.

It is paid to some people who can't work for medical reasons.



Quote:

I know a bloke who had a heart attack - then a quadruple bypass - & he couldn't get the DSP or one cent out of Centerlink. Why? - because he has savings in the Bank from all his hard work that had caused the heart attack.

By the way -

the guy in question went to a lawyer -
there was nothing the lawyer could do -

social security is means tested & that's the law.

If he would have pissed his money up against the wall -
getting drunk every night &
spent the rest down the pokies then he would have been helped -

go figure?

Only 2 votes?

Why aren't more angry people voting?

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 11:25am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 6:02am: Centrelink will always calculate your interest on the ACTUAL rate that is applied by the bank. Nope- 'Deeming is used to calculate income for assessment of your payment. From 1 July 2015:     if you're single and receive an income support payment, the first $48,600 of your financial investments is deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum     if you're a member of a couple and at least one of you receive a pension, the first $80,600 of your and your partner's combined financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum, or     if you're a member of a couple and neither of you receive a pension, the first $40,300 for each of your own and your share of jointly owned financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum If you earn more than the deemed rates If your investment return is higher than the deemed income we calculate, the extra income doesn't count towards your assessable income for your income support payment.' http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/deeming

My apologies maria, you were right, it changed this year, apparently. :-*

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 11:21am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:58am: if everyone wants to be technical, neither Bobby nor the company paid the GST, they are merely the tax collectors  ... the CUSTOMERS paid the GST The Govt. still drains the money out of my hard work. It's money I can't get - & it's money that they won't give back if I ever lose MY JOB.

If you didn't have any savings in the bank, you would.

See what I mean?

Store your money in the bank and you attract trouble for yourself.

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 11:25am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 6:02am: Centrelink will always calculate your interest on the ACTUAL rate that is applied by the bank. Nope- 'Deeming is used to calculate income for assessment of your payment. From 1 July 2015:     if you're single and receive an income support payment, the first $48,600 of your financial investments is deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum     if you're a member of a couple and at least one of you receive a pension, the first $80,600 of your and your partner's combined financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum, or     if you're a member of a couple and neither of you receive a pension, the first $40,300 for each of your own and your share of jointly owned financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% per annum and any amount over that is deemed to earn income at 3.25% per annum If you earn more than the deemed rates If your investment return is higher than the deemed income we calculate, the extra income doesn't count towards your assessable income for your income support payment.' http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/deeming

Did you notice how the website said nothing about what happens if you earn less than the deemed rates?

Bam wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Did you notice how the website said nothing about what happens if you earn less than the deemed rates?

You're DEEMED to earn that amount as specified 1.75% etc. That's what stops you lending money to your kids at no interest.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 2:22pm:

it changed this year, apparently

Nope- it has been in since at least 1997

'Historical Rates & Thresholds'

http://www.ratesmate.com.au/GovernmentBenefits/AgePension-TaxPackQ6/DeemingRatesandThresholds.aspx

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:50am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:42am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:27am: John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:15am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: I felt entitled to something. you felt entitled? were you a politician? When I was working for that last company - in the final week I completed a job which went out the door that was worth $150,000. The Govt. got $15,000  GST as a result of my - actually 2 weeks work. I estimated that I had created millions of dollars in GST for the Govt. over my time with that company - yet they don't take that into account when you go to Centerlink. It's not fair - they want to take money but they don't want to give it back. That's not how it works and nor should it. YOU didnt make that GST. Your company did. Dear Longy, If I would not have done the work & therefore not got the job ready to ship out the Govt. would not have got their GST. That's the way it works. If you want Centerlink money - get tattoos all over your face - make sure you have no money in the bank - don't have a shower for one week - then they will hand over your  money - it's that simple. Maybe that will help some people to get money out of them?

Then why did you work in a company if you can do it all yourself? Treat getting sacked as a bonus since now you can do all that work on your own and get paid the $150K without having to share it with the company!

And we all know why that doesn't work, don't we?

Scoot will now come in and say all you need is a positive outlook or some such tripe.  :D

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 3:04pm:

Bam wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 2:53pm: Did you notice how the website said nothing about what happens if you earn less than the deemed rates? You're DEEMED to earn that amount as specified 1.75% etc. That's what stops you lending money to your kids at no interest.

It also stops the pensioner from depositing large sums of money with any of the major banks. The maximum deeming interest rate is currently 3.25%, but the maximum term deposit rates with the major banks is currently only 3%. It isn't usual for the deeming rate to be higher than the commercial interest rate and is just one of the ways that the Liberals are hurting the poor.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Scoot will now come in and say all you need is a positive outlook or some such tripe.  :D

;D ;D ;D

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 2:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 11:21am: John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:58am: if everyone wants to be technical, neither Bobby nor the company paid the GST, they are merely the tax collectors  ... the CUSTOMERS paid the GST The Govt. still drains the money out of my hard work. It's money I can't get - & it's money that they won't give back if I ever lose MY JOB. If you didn't have any savings in the bank, you would. See what I mean? Store your money in the bank and you attract trouble for yourself.

Where else should the victims of Centerlink store their money other than the Bank?

Under the mattress? Buy some gems?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 5:00pm:

Under the mattress? Buy some gems?

So - it's a good idea to turn honestly earned money into black money
that later has to be laundered in order to use it?

There's plenty of ways to do it, you just have to be a bit inventive.

The bank is not doing you any favours. What's the interest rate?

Yes.....gems, gold bars or coins, silver, paintings, gold jewellery, hide cash.

Give me your address Bobby and I'll tell you where to hide it.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 5:09pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 5:00pm: Under the mattress? Buy some gems? So - it's a good idea to turn honestly earned money into black money that later has to be laundered in order to use it?

Yes it is Bobby, you play them at their game and if you're good you win or you could keep it in the bank then if you lose your job you get to live off your hard earned savings.

Now.....have a cigar and a champagne on the taxpayer (that's you) like the pollies do.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 5:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 5:09pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 5:00pm: Under the mattress? Buy some gems? So - it's a good idea to turn honestly earned money into black money that later has to be laundered in order to use it? Yes it is Bobby, you play them at their game and if you're good you win or you could keep it in the bank then if you lose your job you get to live off your hard earned savings. Now.....have a cigar and a champagne on the taxpayer (that's you) like the pollies do.

That system encourages people to be criminals.

You'd have to make a false declaration to Centerlink
to get away with it.
They do ask you about any assets worth money:

They want to know what car you drive - what the rego number is.
What value of furniture you have etc  etc.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 5:25pm:

They do ask you about any assets worth money: They want to know what car you drive - what the rego number is. What value of furniture you have etc  etc.

You do know that is not the insurance value but fire sale price?

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 5:25pm: They do ask you about any assets worth money: They want to know what car you drive - what the rego number is. What value of furniture you have etc  etc. You do know that is not the insurance value but fire sale price?

What about the crystal chandelier in my living room?


http://www.ninadecor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Beautiful-Crystal-Chandeliers-in-the-Living-Room.jpg

about $200 at cash converters

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 6:00pm:

about $200 at cash converters

Yeah right  ;)


What about my piano?

The vote is 5 to nil -

Centerlink rules are considered unfair by the majority of people.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31^st, 2015 at 10:14am:

Hi Bam, the fact was - they gave me nothing - after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something.

Maybe the Govt should keep an accumulated income tax paid figure for each individual.  If you've paid lots of tax then your social security payments (dole / pensions) should be levied based on the amount of tax your have contributed had stolen from you to date.  :D

Swagman wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 12:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: Hi Bam, the fact was - they gave me nothing - after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something. Maybe the Govt should keep an accumulated income tax paid figure for each individual.  If you've paid lots of tax then your social security payments (dole / pensions) should be levied based on the amount of tax you have contributed had stolen from you to date.  :D

Yes - it would be a much fairer system.

Instead they expect you to live on your savings until you are destitute

while some bum who has contributed nothing
gets the red carpet treatment.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 12:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: Hi Bam, the fact was - they gave me nothing - after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something. Maybe the Govt should keep an accumulated income tax paid figure for each individual.  If you've paid lots of tax then your social security payments (dole / pensions) should be levied based on the amount of tax you have contributed had stolen from you to date.  :D Yes - it would be a much fairer system. Instead they expect you to live on your savings until you are destitute while some bum who has contributed nothing gets the red carpet treatment.

The payment rates for the dole should be increased, perhaps as a percentage of your average income for the previous five years when you lose your job and capped at 80% of the minimum wage.

All these dumb liberal ideas would send Australia flying back to the gilded age "Wahhh I'm rich and I didn't get welfare!" there is a very basic reason for that, its for people who need to survive on $200 a week, if you handed out welfare based on wealth before hand from top-bottom, then those born into poverty or lower class families would be starving to death on the streets as they would never be able to access welfare.

Its there to help people, its not a "I want free money pls" like you libs seem to think it is.

Also $200 a week and having to deal with F**king centerlink or whatever nightmare scam artist JSA they put you on is a red carpet. Honestly I would rather be a toilet scrubber on minimum wage than have to deal with MAX Employment or Centerlink ever again.

Bam wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 4:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:20pm: Swagman wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: Hi Bam, the fact was - they gave me nothing - after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something. Maybe the Govt should keep an accumulated income tax paid figure for each individual.  If you've paid lots of tax then your social security payments (dole / pensions) should be levied based on the amount of tax you have contributed had stolen from you to date.  :D Yes - it would be a much fairer system. Instead they expect you to live on your savings until you are destitute while some bum who has contributed nothing gets the red carpet treatment. The payment rates for the dole should be increased, perhaps as a percentage of your average income for the previous five years when you lose your job and capped at 80% of the minimum wage.

Making the dole the same as the old age pension would be a start.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 4:44pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 4:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:20pm: Swagman wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: Hi Bam, the fact was - they gave me nothing - after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something. Maybe the Govt should keep an accumulated income tax paid figure for each individual.  If you've paid lots of tax then your social security payments (dole / pensions) should be levied based on the amount of tax you have contributed had stolen from you to date.  :D Yes - it would be a much fairer system. Instead they expect you to live on your savings until you are destitute while some bum who has contributed nothing gets the red carpet treatment. The payment rates for the dole should be increased, perhaps as a percentage of your average income for the previous five years when you lose your job and capped at 80% of the minimum wage. Making the dole the same as the old age pension would be a start.

It used to be (or within a very few dollars of it) until HOWARD changed the way No-Start is indexed.

Thus began the ever-increasing disparity between the pension and the dole, currently around $300/fortnight.

This, with its evil twin, WfD, was nothing but an ideology-driven slap in the face to all unemployed.

Yep, it makes perfect sense to provide as much incentive to be unemployed as possible  ::)

Swagman wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Yep, it makes perfect sense to provide as much incentive to be unemployed as possible  ::)

And as usual you deliberately ignore the point and simply chant ideological crap.

Kat wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 5:34pm:

Swagman wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 5:30pm: Yep, it makes perfect sense to provide as much incentive to be unemployed as possible  ::) And as usual you deliberately ignore the point and simply chant ideological crap.

....ditto

Swagman wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Yep, it makes perfect sense to provide as much incentive to be unemployed as possible  ::)

If the dole was raised towards an amount it is actually possible to live on, it still wouldn't act as an incentive to be unemployed.

Not surprising that the the socialist's brain is majorly confused by the concept of incentive?

Swagman wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:01pm:

Not surprising that the the socialist's brain is majorly confused by the concept of incentive?

An incentive is to live a dignified life with lots of fun and holidays and stuff. Not the pittance that constitutes welfare.

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:02pm:

Swagman wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:01pm: Not surprising that the the socialist's brain is majorly confused by the concept of incentive? An incentive is to live a dignified life with lots of fun and holidays and stuff. Not the pittance that constitutes welfare.

He's stuck with the out-dated mindset that people are only EVER on the dole
because they want to be, and should therefore be denied all but subsistence-
level living.

Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics.

Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:17pm:

Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy.

Precisely.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:17pm:

Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy.

Ha, good one Monk...........lets all sign up for the dole as a boom for the economy  ;D  I almost thought you were serious there... ;D

As I said, no idea of economics, so plays the clown (quite successfully I might add.)

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:17pm:

Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy.

At the moment the govt is trying to destroy the ability of welfare recips TO spend
(except in stores owned by the 'biggies').

They don't WANT the unemployed to have the ability to indulge in discretionary
spending on what THEY deem to be 'luxuries' (basically anything more than a
hovel, a candle, and some turnips).

Just look at the brouhaha over welfare recips buying from Radio Rentals. That
had nothing to do with recips being ripped-off (they weren't), but everything to
do with stopping them from buying these perceived 'luxuries'.

They want people to spend, but not if they're unemployed. The ability to spend
or not spend, and on what, would give them a presence and an influence.

And we just CAN'T have that, can we... ?  >:(

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:24pm:

As I said, no idea of economics, so plays the clown (quite successfully I might add.)

...sorry Voodoo Economics 101 had way too many student unionists in it....

Kat wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 5:18pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 4:44pm: Bam wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 4:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:20pm: Swagman wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 12:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:14am: Hi Bam, the fact was - they gave me nothing - after all the taxes I'd paid - I felt entitled to something. Maybe the Govt should keep an accumulated income tax paid figure for each individual.  If you've paid lots of tax then your social security payments (dole / pensions) should be levied based on the amount of tax you have contributed had stolen from you to date.  :D Yes - it would be a much fairer system. Instead they expect you to live on your savings until you are destitute while some bum who has contributed nothing gets the red carpet treatment. The payment rates for the dole should be increased, perhaps as a percentage of your average income for the previous five years when you lose your job and capped at 80% of the minimum wage. Making the dole the same as the old age pension would be a start. It used to be (or within a very few dollars of it) until HOWARD changed the way No-Start is indexed. Thus began the ever-increasing disparity between the pension and the dole, currently around $300/fortnight. This, with its evil twin, WfD, was nothing but an ideology-driven slap in the face to all unemployed.

You feel sick if you ever lose your job & go to Centerlink -

it's as if all those taxes you paid all your life for other people
to get paid mean nothing to the Govt.

They treat you like a piece of dirt who deserves nothing -

not one cent.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/occhlocrats2.jpg

Pay every worker the unemployment benefit and tax income above that in the same way for all.  hat should slow down some of these CEOs and stuff...

A quadruple bypass is a fix - not a cure - and the basic problems that lead to the problem in the first place still remain and can be ameliorated by medication and diet and lifestyle.

Swagman wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 7:42pm:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/occhlocrats2.jpg

As it should be - in return for leading a privileged life the net tax payers pay for the rest to exist in peace.... thus preserving their opportunity to lead a privileged life without the torments of the flaming brands, the pitchfork, the noose, the guillotine, and the ride in the tumbrils.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 6:17pm:

Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy.

A lot of that comes back in taxes as well - GST, company tax, etc. Only the difference need be funded.

Bam wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 9:54pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:17pm: Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy. A lot of that comes back in taxes as well - GST, company tax, etc. Only the difference need be funded.

Yup.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 9:59pm:

Bam wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 9:54pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:17pm: Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy. A lot of that comes back in taxes as well - GST, company tax, etc. Only the difference need be funded. Yup.

borrow money from china to give to the unemployed to spend and boost the economy.

sell our real estate, businesses and farms to pay off the debt.

since the unemployed dont have any real estate, farms and businesses to sell, this plan would certsainly be popular with the unemployed.

Some unemployed own houses, Scoot. Been kicked in the head by a hobby horse again? Obviously they don’t own busineses or farms anymore. Hmmm wait a minute, lots of farmers get the dole even when they still have the farm!

The rest of your post is too turgid to derive sense from it—assuming it has sense in the first place, not likely with your posts.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:37am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 9:59pm: Bam wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 9:54pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:17pm: Swag, like all the RWNJs here, has no idea of economics. Boost NewStart and ALL of the increase will be spent, boosting the economy. A lot of that comes back in taxes as well - GST, company tax, etc. Only the difference need be funded. Yup. borrow money from china to give to the unemployed to spend and boost the economy. sell our real estate, businesses and farms to pay off the debt. since the unemployed dont have any real estate, farms and businesses to sell, this plan would certsainly be popular with the unemployed.

Did he REALLY say that  ;D ;D ;D   duh!


Is that you Joe?


the unemployed don't have cars lol!!!!!!

And we don’t have to borrow any money to increase NewStart, just cut into the tax expenditures. Of course, the neocons won’t do that.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:42am:

Some unemployed own houses, Scoot. Been kicked in the head by a hobby horse again? Obviously they don’t own busineses or farms anymore. Hmmm wait a minute, lots of farmers get the dole even when they still have the farm! The rest of your post is too turgid to derive sense from it—assuming it has sense in the first place, not likely with your posts.

Not many,  anything over 5 acres counts towards the asset test.

You and the pansi and most of the lefties just misrepresent the  unemployed .
It is YOU who lives in fantasy land.

The local abbatoir (theiss brothers) on the outskirts of brisbane has nearly 200 457 visa holders working in its meatworks. they built a complex to house all the workers in logan city (which has the highest unemployment in Qld).

they were allowed to import these 457 visa holders after months of trying to fill the job vacancies locally.

the pay rate starts at $26 an hour.

sure we have 5 % unemployment, thats 1 in 20.

think back to when you were in the classroom.
are you honestly telling me that in a class of 20 kids there wasnt 1 bludger.

If so, i will have to giggle at this ludicrous suggestion.

sure if we had 20 % unemployment, there would be some people caught up in the unemployed, but 1 in 20 people are slackers .

and it is a good thing we make being a slacker as unattractive as possible.

as for this idea that , getting taxpayer money (and more of it) so you can just go shopping and "contribute" to society by being a "consumer"

that is laughable.

try selling that to the 95 % who are paying taxes and see shopping as a reward for effort, not as some sort of "noble act' which brain dead numpties like yourself seem to think it is  ;) ;)

Yes of course diddums, I have it all wrong.

No, you have it all wrong. Unemployment is over 6% and rising, hours worked are falling (that is all hours worked, by Aussies, by 457 workers, whatever. Underemployment is higher.

Farmers can get the dole when their area is declared drought stricken.

Ahh here it comes. The unemployed are slackers. Not all of them, a small core who really do bludge, but even then they must now do some work, even if voluntary. But the economy is slowing, there is less work hence more unemployed, around 6.4% with over 10% wanting to work longer hours.

You are a fantasist.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 1^st, 2015 at 7:46pm:

A quadruple bypass is a fix - not a cure - and the basic problems that lead to the problem in the first place still remain and can be ameliorated by medication and diet and lifestyle.

But the vote:

Question: Should a heart attack + a quadruple bypass = the DSP?


is now  8 to 0 in favor.

*

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UV4V5eEl5U


All people applying for the DSP and thinking that they have "maxed out their potential"  need to be sat down at centrelink and made to watch one of the 1000's of youtube clips like the one above  ;) ;)

Hardly anybody gets the DSP these days.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 8:28am:

Hardly anybody gets the DSP these days.

I know someone who got it over 10 years ago by saying they were mad.

Now you can't even get it unless you're like Christopher Reed
sucking out of a straw in a wheel chair.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/79/50/fb/7950fb924138b382e0651b6be8a37805.jpg

I was on the DSP for 14 months or so. Arthritis meant I couldn’t stand or walk without pain. When you run a HBS you are standing up talking to customers, standing making up brewpacks, packaging crown seal caps and the like. Quite impossible with advanced arthritis in a hip joint.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 7:49am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:46pm: A quadruple bypass is a fix - not a cure - and the basic problems that lead to the problem in the first place still remain and can be ameliorated by medication and diet and lifestyle. But the vote: Question: Should a heart attack + a quadruple bypass = the DSP? is now  8 to 0 in favor.

8-1 now.

Heart surgery MAY not be a legitimate claim for DSP. 

You can actually be 10X healthier following heart surgery and more than capable of doing paid work.  Depends upon whether the heart has been damaged.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:37am:

since the unemployed dont have any real estate, farms and businesses to sell, this plan would certsainly be popular with the unemployed.

This is why you fail. Pay attention.

You have a narrow pre-conceived notion of what "the unemployed" means. Like most rightards, you spend your whole life stereotyping other people, placing people into little boxes with a convenient label and everyone in each box is the same. In the case of your little box labelled "the unemployed", none of them own property, all of them are not trying, and so on. Your blatant stereotyping of "the unemployed" is far from accurate and that is why your posts about the unemployed are weapons-grade horseshit. You know so little about unemployed workers (a more accurate term) that you sound like an idiot every time you post about them.

Centrelink has a "MOD R" form where R means "Real Estate", including investment properties. Why would Centrelink have this form if "'the unemployed' don't have any real estate"? Not only is it possible for unemployed workers to own houses, it is possible for them to own multiple properties. How did these unemployed workers get those properties? Mostly by working hard, saving and investing. Just like everyone else who buys real estate.

Think about that for a moment and you will realise that unemployed workers are just like everyone else. The sole difference is that they are currently without a chair in the great game of employment musical chairs. Unemployed workers end up without a job for all sorts of reasons - lack of experience, retrenchment, company goes bust, even drought. Yes, it is true, farmers can end up on the dole too.

For most unemployed workers they end up without a job through no fault of their own. There are simply not enough jobs to go around. And here's another fact - if the unemployment rate and workforce is steady, for every unemployed worker who is lucky enough to find a job, somewhere another worker has to lose their job to make room. The actual labour market has more people in jobs over time due to population growth, but more people end up unemployed too.

The only way that all the unemployed can find work at the same time is if we had real full employment in Australia and that hasn't happened for 40 years. No amount of airy-fairy positive thinking nonsense helps if the jobs are not there and the community is filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed. Your stereotyping of unemployed workers doesn't help. Not one bit.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 8:28am:

Hardly anybody gets the DSP these days.

Probably more accurate to say that few can get the DSP who are currently not on it. The ones who had it before the rules were changed have been grandfathered in, and it's only a matter of time before Morrison comes after them too in his manic and immoral quest for "savings".

Bam wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 10:09am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 8:28am: Hardly anybody gets the DSP these days. Probably more accurate to say that few can get the DSP who are currently not on it. The ones who had it before the rules were changed have been grandfathered in, and it's only a matter of time before Morrison comes after them too in his manic and immoral quest for "savings".

Its not about savings in the monetary sense.
Its about savings from a humanitarian point of view.

what sort of society puts even young people and people with some sort of impairment on the DSP scrap heap?

what sort of society says that its better for people to stay home, ALONE, ISOLATED, NO WORK CIRCLE OF FRIENDS AND NO ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE,

the DSP leads to social isolation, depression, alcohol and drug addiction , gambling addiction.

Its pitiful that people see this as the high water mark in their lifes journey.
Anyone who is desperate to get on the DSP is the very person who will be helped most by NOT putting them on it.

Its like a 220 kg guy desperate to get a big mac at Maccas. the humane thing to do is to help him see the error of his ways, not just give in to his weak mental attitude to his life

Bam wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 10:04am:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:37am: since the unemployed dont have any real estate, farms and businesses to sell, this plan would certsainly be popular with the unemployed. This is why you fail. Pay attention. You have a narrow pre-conceived notion of what "the unemployed" means. Like most rightards, you spend your whole life stereotyping other people, placing people into little boxes with a convenient label and everyone in each box is the same. In the case of your little box labelled "the unemployed", none of them own property, all of them are not trying, and so on. Your blatant stereotyping of "the unemployed" is far from accurate and that is why your posts about the unemployed are weapons-grade horseshit. You know so little about unemployed workers (a more accurate term) that you sound like an idiot every time you post about them. Centrelink has a "MOD R" form where R means "Real Estate", including investment properties. Why would Centrelink have this form if "'the unemployed' don't have any real estate"? Not only is it possible for unemployed workers to own houses, it is possible for them to own multiple properties. How did these unemployed workers get those properties? Mostly by working hard, saving and investing. Just like everyone else who buys real estate. Think about that for a moment and you will realise that unemployed workers are just like everyone else. The sole difference is that they are currently without a chair in the great game of employment musical chairs. Unemployed workers end up without a job for all sorts of reasons - lack of experience, retrenchment, company goes bust, even drought. Yes, it is true, farmers can end up on the dole too. For most unemployed workers they end up without a job through no fault of their own. There are simply not enough jobs to go around. And here's another fact - if the unemployment rate and workforce is steady, for every unemployed worker who is lucky enough to find a job, somewhere another worker has to lose their job to make room. The actual labour market has more people in jobs over time due to population growth, but more people end up unemployed too. The only way that all the unemployed can find work at the same time is if we had real full employment in Australia and that hasn't happened for 40 years. No amount of airy-fairy positive thinking nonsense helps if the jobs are not there and the community is filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed. Your stereotyping of unemployed workers doesn't help. Not one bit.

people shouldnt be filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed.
i feel genuinely sorry for them.
they are missing out.

they are the playthings of the left who seek to control them.

centrelink dont help the unemployed.

you are never going to be with out a job if you have a great attitude , a great social network, a great number of family and friends and great community ties.

have all this and you gaurantee your "social security"

entrust your working future to a bunch of disinterested public servants or politicians who wish to use you (like they use assylum seekers) and you are truly farrked.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 10:15am:

what sort of society puts even young people and people with some sort of impairment on the DSP scrap heap? what sort of society says that its better for people to stay home, ALONE, ISOLATED, NO WORK CIRCLE OF FRIENDS AND NO ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE, the DSP leads to social isolation, depression, alcohol and drug addiction , gambling addiction.

Gee you talk rubbish.

Disabled pensioners don't have to be isolated, alone, depressed or addicted.

Many would have very fulfilling lives but you don't want to know that, do you scoot?

They might have family, they would most likely have friends, probably other DSP's, some would drive, some would even get out of their house, you know......like into the wider community, something you should do.

Your poor horses must be fed up with you lecturing them all day.

How dare they get a pension and enjoy not working.

Most DSP can still enjoy the beach during the summer months too.

:o how dare they :o

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 10:32am:

Bam wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:04am: aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:37am: since the unemployed dont have any real estate, farms and businesses to sell, this plan would certsainly be popular with the unemployed. This is why you fail. Pay attention. You have a narrow pre-conceived notion of what "the unemployed" means. Like most rightards, you spend your whole life stereotyping other people, placing people into little boxes with a convenient label and everyone in each box is the same. In the case of your little box labelled "the unemployed", none of them own property, all of them are not trying, and so on. Your blatant stereotyping of "the unemployed" is far from accurate and that is why your posts about the unemployed are weapons-grade horseshit. You know so little about unemployed workers (a more accurate term) that you sound like an idiot every time you post about them. Centrelink has a "MOD R" form where R means "Real Estate", including investment properties. Why would Centrelink have this form if "'the unemployed' don't have any real estate"? Not only is it possible for unemployed workers to own houses, it is possible for them to own multiple properties. How did these unemployed workers get those properties? Mostly by working hard, saving and investing. Just like everyone else who buys real estate. Think about that for a moment and you will realise that unemployed workers are just like everyone else. The sole difference is that they are currently without a chair in the great game of employment musical chairs. Unemployed workers end up without a job for all sorts of reasons - lack of experience, retrenchment, company goes bust, even drought. Yes, it is true, farmers can end up on the dole too. For most unemployed workers they end up without a job through no fault of their own. There are simply not enough jobs to go around. And here's another fact - if the unemployment rate and workforce is steady, for every unemployed worker who is lucky enough to find a job, somewhere another worker has to lose their job to make room. The actual labour market has more people in jobs over time due to population growth, but more people end up unemployed too. The only way that all the unemployed can find work at the same time is if we had real full employment in Australia and that hasn't happened for 40 years. No amount of airy-fairy positive thinking nonsense helps if the jobs are not there and the community is filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed. Your stereotyping of unemployed workers doesn't help. Not one bit. people shouldnt be filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed. i feel genuinely sorry for them. they are missing out. they are the playthings of the left who seek to control them.

You have it wrong, completely wrong.

It is not the "left" who bring in Work for the Dole, the JSA network and grant power to issue fines on unaccountable private corporations. It is not the "left" who put to the Parliament bill after bill to control the unemployed, such as "Debit Card Trial" and "Further Strengthening Job Seeker Compliance". Those control Bills are products of the current right-wing government, not the "left". So get your facts straight.


Quote:

you are never going to be with out a job if you have a great attitude , a great social network, a great number of family and friends and great community ties. have all this and you gaurantee your "social security"

More of this clueless "positive thinking" horseshit crap again that has no relevance to the real world. Do you seriously think that doing all of this and the job fairy will magically grant a job?


Quote:

centrelink dont help the unemployed.

Quote:

entrust your working future to a bunch of disinterested public servants or politicians who wish to use you (like they use assylum seekers) and you are truly farrked.

It's not the public servants who are the problem, it is the rules that are imposed by an uncaring and hostile governments. Get this ... this current government thinks that a six-month wait for the dole is an appropriate way to handle youth unemployment that in some places is over 20%. They are clueless.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 11:51am:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:15am: what sort of society puts even young people and people with some sort of impairment on the DSP scrap heap? what sort of society says that its better for people to stay home, ALONE, ISOLATED, NO WORK CIRCLE OF FRIENDS AND NO ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE, the DSP leads to social isolation, depression, alcohol and drug addiction , gambling addiction. Gee you talk rubbish. Disabled pensioners don't have to be isolated, alone, depressed or addicted. Many would have very fulfilling lives but you don't want to know that, do you scoot? They might have family, they would most likely have friends, probably other DSP's, some would drive, some would even get out of their house, you know......like into the wider community, something you should do. Your poor horses must be fed up with you lecturing them all day. How dare they get a pension and enjoy not working. Most DSP can still enjoy the beach during the summer months too. :o how dare they :o

enjoying the beach is the reward for a decent weeks work. (in the same way having a beer on a friday avo is the reward for a hard weeks work)
its not a lifestyle choice.its not something that people should do every day.

I even heard some pensioners are considering going overseas to thailand and expect the australian taxpayer to fund their lifestyle choice.

How pitiful  ;) ;)

Bam wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 11:52am:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:32am: Bam wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:04am: aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:37am: since the unemployed dont have any real estate, farms and businesses to sell, this plan would certsainly be popular with the unemployed. This is why you fail. Pay attention. You have a narrow pre-conceived notion of what "the unemployed" means. Like most rightards, you spend your whole life stereotyping other people, placing people into little boxes with a convenient label and everyone in each box is the same. In the case of your little box labelled "the unemployed", none of them own property, all of them are not trying, and so on. Your blatant stereotyping of "the unemployed" is far from accurate and that is why your posts about the unemployed are weapons-grade horseshit. You know so little about unemployed workers (a more accurate term) that you sound like an idiot every time you post about them. Centrelink has a "MOD R" form where R ose properties? Mostly by working hard, saving and investing. Just like everyone else who buys real estate. Think about that for a moment and you will realise that unemployed workers are just like everyone else. The sole difference is that they are currently without a chair in the great game of employment musical chairs. Unemployed workers end up without a job for all sorts of reasons - lack of experience, retrenchment, company goes bust, even drought. Yes, it is true, farmers can end up on the dole too. For most unemployed workers they end up without a job through no fault of their own. There are simply not enough jobs to go around. And here's another fact - if the unemployment rate and workforce is steady, for every unemployed worker who is lucky enough to find a job, somewhere another worker has to lose their job to make room. The actual labour market has more people in jobs over time due to population growth, but more people end up unemployed too. The only way that all the unemployed can find work at the same time is if we had real full employment in Australia and that hasn't happened for 40 years. No amount of airy-fairy positive thinking nonsense helps if the jobs are not there and the community is filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed. Your stereotyping of unemployed workers doesn't help. Not one bit. people shouldnt be filled with hate and mistrust towards the unemployed. i feel genuinely sorry for them. they are missing out. they are the playthings of the left who seek to control them. You have it wrong, completely wrong. It is not the "left" who bring in Work for the Dole, the JSA network and grant power to issue fines on unaccountable private corporations. It is not the "left" who put to the Parliament bill after bill to control the unemployed, such as "Debit Card Trial" and "Further Strengthening Job Seeker Compliance". Those control Bills are products of the current right-wing government, not the "left". So get your facts straight. Quote: you are never going to be with out a job if you have a great attitude , a great social network, a great number of family and friends and great community ties. have all this and you gaurantee your "social security" More of this clueless "positive thinking" horseshit crap again that has no relevance to the real world. Do you seriously think that doing all of this and the job fairy will magically grant a job? [quote]centrelink dont help the unemployed.

Quote:

entrust your working future to a bunch of disinterested public servants or politicians who wish to use you (like they use assylum seekers) and you are truly farrked.

It's not the public servants who are the problem, it is the rules that are imposed by an uncaring and hostile governments. Get this ... this current government thinks that a six-month wait for the dole is an appropriate way to handle youth unemployment that in some places is over 20%. They are clueless.
[/quote]


these things are useful teaching tools.
they make the wrong thing hard (always a good teaching principle).
they are meant to teach and train , not to control.

labor introduce welfare as a way of getting people addicted to government.
the single mothers pension is a typical example.

they control single mothers by making the government  the daddy in the household. then, when the single mum is well and truly addicted to the government $$$, they pull the rug out from under her and make her go cold turkey. Gillard did just that, lowering the age to 6 yo when the payment cuts out.
Chief drug dealer Gough got them all hooked on the pure stuff by making the $$$ flow til your child reached 16.

Slowly the labor "drug dealers' kept cutting back on the dose, (whlist creating ever more addicts).
This is just control and cruelty.

Lets just admit, the government cannot create jobs (anymore then the government can find you a date on a saturday night).  you have to develop the skill set to do this yourself. its up to YOU to improve improve improve  ;)

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 12:05pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:51am: aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:15am: what sort of society puts even young people and people with some sort of impairment on the DSP scrap heap? what sort of society says that its better for people to stay home, ALONE, ISOLATED, NO WORK CIRCLE OF FRIENDS AND NO ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE, the DSP leads to social isolation, depression, alcohol and drug addiction , gambling addiction. Gee you talk rubbish. Disabled pensioners don't have to be isolated, alone, depressed or addicted. Many would have very fulfilling lives but you don't want to know that, do you scoot? They might have family, they would most likely have friends, probably other DSP's, some would drive, some would even get out of their house, you know......like into the wider community, something you should do. Your poor horses must be fed up with you lecturing them all day. How dare they get a pension and enjoy not working. Most DSP can still enjoy the beach during the summer months too. :o how dare they :o enjoying the beach is the reward for a decent weeks work. (in the same way having a beer on a friday avo is the reward for a hard weeks work) its not a lifestyle choice.its not something that people should do every day. I even heard some pensioners are considering going overseas to thailand and expect the australian taxpayer to fund their lifestyle choice. How pitiful  ;) ;)

Of course I expect the taxpayer to fund it, just as I funded those before me and so on, that's how it works.

.......the beach is a reward, a beer is a reward, weetbix too?

How pitiful  :(  :(

I heard they might be going sooner if the cost of living keeps rising.

Pension automatically credited to bank account every fortnight, rent a condo by the sea, fresh food, cook it yourself or eat out, plenty of social activities, join in or opt out, live like a queen on a paupers wage.......it's all about choice, lifestyle choice.

turn ova

Honest question, are the right wingers on this forum real people or trolls? I honestly can't tell. Surely nobody can be as insane and divorced from reality as Cods, Maria, Armchair, Aqua etc.

In what ****ing universe do these people live?

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 12:05pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:51am: aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:15am: what sort of society puts even young people and people with some sort of impairment on the DSP scrap heap? what sort of society says that its better for people to stay home, ALONE, ISOLATED, NO WORK CIRCLE OF FRIENDS AND NO ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE, the DSP leads to social isolation, depression, alcohol and drug addiction , gambling addiction. Gee you talk rubbish. Disabled pensioners don't have to be isolated, alone, depressed or addicted. Many would have very fulfilling lives but you don't want to know that, do you scoot? They might have family, they would most likely have friends, probably other DSP's, some would drive, some would even get out of their house, you know......like into the wider community, something you should do. Your poor horses must be fed up with you lecturing them all day. How dare they get a pension and enjoy not working. Most DSP can still enjoy the beach during the summer months too. :o how dare they :o enjoying the beach is the reward for a decent weeks work. (in the same way having a beer on a friday avo is the reward for a hard weeks work) its not a lifestyle choice.its not something that people should do every day. I even heard some pensioners are considering going overseas to thailand and expect the australian taxpayer to fund their lifestyle choice. How pitiful  ;) ;)

Wrong.

They are not privileges reserved only for your beloved 'workers', as much as you'd like them to be.

ANYONE is entitled to enjoy either one. Working or not.

WHY do you think you should be able to deny the unemployed the rights enjoyed by others?

As long as you do, and as long as you regard yourself as being somehow 'better' and 'more
worthy and deserving' than them, you'll always BE bloody wrong!

The pension is pathetic anyway, as is NewStart only more so.

Some couples have divorced tho continuing to live as man and wife: two single pensions pay more than one couple pension. Pensioners have to advise centerlink of whatever bit of money they make by working. Some used to letterbox direct mail to get exercise and some extra money.

Meanwhile, a few thousand very wealthy people get $50Bn in tax exemptions for super. After booking all these HUGE tax exemptions they can then retire and the income they get is tax free! I know who the leaners are and they are not pensioners or those temporarily out of work.

Kat wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 12:33pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 12:05pm: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:51am: aquascoot wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:15am: what sort of society puts even young people and people with some sort of impairment on the DSP scrap heap? what sort of society says that its better for people to stay home, ALONE, ISOLATED, NO WORK CIRCLE OF FRIENDS AND NO ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE, the DSP leads to social isolation, depression, alcohol and drug addiction , gambling addiction. Gee you talk rubbish. Disabled pensioners don't have to be isolated, alone, depressed or addicted. Many would have very fulfilling lives but you don't want to know that, do you scoot? They might have family, they would most likely have friends, probably other DSP's, some would drive, some would even get out of their house, you know......like into the wider community, something you should do. Your poor horses must be fed up with you lecturing them all day. How dare they get a pension and enjoy not working. Most DSP can still enjoy the beach during the summer months too. :o how dare they :o enjoying the beach is the reward for a decent weeks work. (in the same way having a beer on a friday avo is the reward for a hard weeks work) its not a lifestyle choice.its not something that people should do every day. I even heard some pensioners are considering going overseas to thailand and expect the australian taxpayer to fund their lifestyle choice. How pitiful  ;) ;) Wrong. They are not privileges reserved only for your beloved 'workers', as much as you'd like them to be. ANYONE is entitled to enjoy either one. Working or not. WHY do you think you should be able to deny the unemployed the rights enjoyed by others? As long as you do, and as long as you regard yourself as being somehow 'better' and 'more worthy and deserving' than them, you'll always BE bloody wrong!

not better or more worthy, simply living life from a better "vision"

you are the "star" in your own life "movie"

if you want to script a mediocre role for yourself, this is your choice.
a good career is like a good relationship, worth putting in an effort for.
if you have a good relationship end and you are alone, then , the sensible thing is to work on yourself and become a positive contributing person and you 'll soon find yourself back in a good relationship.
if you have a good job and it ends and you are unemployed, the sensible thing is to work on yourself and become a positive contributing person and you'll soon find yourself back in a good job.

if you are negative, pessimistic and give up,  no one will want to start a relationship with you.
if you are negative, pessimistic and give up, no one will want to employ you.

now Monk will come back and tell me my ideas are fanciful, but if you had a friend who was recently divorced , would you advice him to be bitter, tell him how bad the dating market is, tell him their arent enough women to go around, tell him to throw himself a pity party.  if you do, i would not consider you a good friend to this man.

if you do the same to the unemployed, i do not consider you a good friend to the unemployed

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 12:37pm:

The pension is pathetic anyway, as is NewStart only more so. Some couples have divorced tho continuing to live as man and wife: two single pensions pay more than one couple pension. Pensioners have to advise centerlink of whatever bit of money they make by working. Some used to letterbox direct mail to get exercise and some extra money. Meanwhile, a few thousand very wealthy people get $50Bn in tax exemptions for super. After booking all these HUGE tax exemptions they can then retire and the income they get is tax free! I know who the leaners are and they are not pensioners or those temporarily out of work.

this would seem to be advocating a criminal act

Swagman wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 9:47am:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:49am: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:46pm: A quadruple bypass is a fix - not a cure - and the basic problems that lead to the problem in the first place still remain and can be ameliorated by medication and diet and lifestyle. But the vote: Question: Should a heart attack + a quadruple bypass = the DSP? is now  8 to 0 in favor. 8-1 now. Heart surgery MAY not be a legitimate claim for DSP.  You can actually be 10X healthier following heart surgery and more than capable of doing paid work.  Depends upon whether the heart has been damaged.

Dear misguided Swagman,
But the guy was off work with a medical certificate from his surgeon.
Centerlink wouldn't accept the certificate -
apparently they know more than a qualified surgeon!

The reason he didn't get the DSP is because he had some money in the Bank -
it's means tested.

you are forgiven for voting no.

namaste

Kiron22 wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 12:30pm:

Honest question, are the right wingers on this forum real people or trolls? I honestly can't tell. Surely nobody can be as insane and divorced from reality as Cods, Maria, Armchair, Aqua etc. In what ****ing universe do these people live?

oh they're real alright .. you haven't seen the best of it

every single criticism they gave labor while they were in govt, they applauded the libs for when they did exactly the same thing ... it's like being in the twilight zone

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket.

Well it is isn't it.  Theirs and mine and millions of other peoples.

dazza wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 5:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. Well it is isn't it.  Theirs and mine and millions of other peoples.

No.

Kat wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

dazza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:45pm: Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:58am: Swagman wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 6:55am: Gee you'd think giving away free money would have 100% customer satisfaction?  ;D Some people are never satisfied.... :D A lot of Centrelink staff members act like the money is coming straight out of their pocket. Well it is isn't it.  Theirs and mine and millions of other peoples. No.

Yes.

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

dazza wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

I noticed the capitalists aren't adverse to taking other peoples money either  :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:00pm:

dazza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” I noticed the capitalists aren't adverse to taking other peoples money either  :D :D :D

Any real socialist government will print it's own money and loan at low or no interest.  Until they do that, they are just fakes, and servants of the private banks.

dazza wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Any real socialist government will print it's own money and loan at low or no interest

and yet you're the one calling them socialists ;D ;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:05pm:

dazza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:04pm: Any real socialist government will print it's own money and loan at low or no interest and yet you're the one calling them socialists ;D ;D ;D

:D

dazza wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

No earthly idea, have you?

Kat wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:08pm:

dazza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” No earthly idea, have you?

Well I know it worked well under Hitler.  Until he invaded Poland  :P

But then I bet he didn't give "dole bludgers" a red cent  :)

dazza wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:09pm:

Kat wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:08pm: dazza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” No earthly idea, have you? Well I know it worked well under Hitler.  Until he invaded Poland  :P But then I bet he didn't give "dole bludgers" a red cent  :)

Yeah they tend to overlook that Hitler was a socialist.

dazza wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:09pm:

Kat wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:08pm: dazza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:58pm: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” No earthly idea, have you? Well I know it worked well under Hitler.  Until he invaded Poland  :P But then I bet he didn't give "dole bludgers" a red cent  :)

Hitler was a socialist in name only, not in practice.

Bit like the PRNK - it's neither a republic, nor is it for the people.

Or the USA calling itself 'land of the free' when it's nothing of the kind.