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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1447741910 Message started by Baronvonrort on Nov 17^th, 2015 at 4:31pm

Title: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 17^th, 2015 at 4:31pm

Quote:

While ordinary Britons and non muslims around the world are bewildered by these never-ending acts of terrorism, the response of the leaders of the Islamic community is the tired old cliché-- Islam is a religion of peace,and Jihad is simply an inner struggle.

The fact these terrorists are motivated by one powerful belief-- the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar (non Muslims)--is disingenuously denied by Islamic clerics and leaders

Yesterday,instead of calling on muslims to shelve the doctrine of armed jihad,predictably,the Muslim council of Britain (MCB) issued a quick press release claiming the barbaric attack has no basis in Islam.

Not true MCB,As a muslim, I can say without fear,the latest terror attack has a basis in Islam and it's time for us muslims to dig our heads out of the sand.
Hundreds of British muslims tweeted their condemnation of the act,but not one individual or organization had the courage to point out and admit the fact sharia based doctrine of armed jihad does permit holy war on non muslims,especially in the land of the Kuffar.

This was an opportunity for the muslim leadership to confess they have failed and the time has come to admit that jihadis cannot be fought without fighting the doctrine of jihad.

It is worth noting that not a single muslim cleric since 9/11 has mustered the courage to say the doctrine of armed jihad is defunct and inapplicable in the 21st century.They rightfully denounce terrorism,but dare not denounce jihad
www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fatah/uk-beheading-jihad-terror_b_3325363.html

Gandalf-
Do you agree with Tarek Fatah on the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar being responsible for Islamic terror or do you agree with Waleed Aly and the Grand Mufti in saying racism (Muslims are not a race) and Islamophobia along with foreign policy cause Islamic terror?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 12:37pm

Baronvonrort,

That is too confusing.

You have given g too many options.

Perhaps g didn't even want to accept either of the options you offered him.

Perhaps gandalf would prefer to explain his position using another modus ?

He a moslem, you are oppressing him.

And he refuses to respond to your 'insinuations' as to what he may believe, or, not believe.

He a moslem.

Baronvonrort,

If you oppress a moslem [by questioning his moral integrity], of course the moslem is going to righteously respond with 'ISLAMIC terror' against you!

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 1:48pm

One at a time Baron.

Firstly lets start with the claim that Waleed Aly thinks racism causes terrorism. What did he actually say?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 6:56pm

Told'ya.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:36pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

He a moslem, you are oppressing him.

And he refuses to respond to your 'insinuations' as to what he may believe, or, not believe.

He a moslem.

Both Baron and you are agents of hate. Your "discussions" with me are done with only one purpose in mind - to try and embarrass and shame me. You have no interest whatsoever in understanding my point of view.

And now you sit here and scoff at me for being defensive when I see you trying to corner me for petty point scoring.

At least admit one thing Yadda, as I believe you are at heart and honest person: you have no interest whatsoever in trying to understand my point of view or the point of view of muslims - the only thing you are interested in these debates is how you can use them to mock and ridicule muslims - right?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Bazza on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:52pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:36pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

He a moslem, you are oppressing him.

And he refuses to respond to your 'insinuations' as to what he may believe, or, not believe.

He a moslem.

Why should they all you do is apologize for every sick perverted muslim act on the planet. You are clearly the agent of HATE. You have absolutely no intention of learning one thing outside of islam. Everyone knows that so stop playing the hard done by muslim, because you aint hard done by at all chump. We just have to put up with your offensiveness as long as you are here.

If you don't like this country simply leave it.

It must be another feel sorry for muslims day.

Tissue ?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Sprintcyclist on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 8:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:36pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

He a moslem, you are oppressing him.

And he refuses to respond to your 'insinuations' as to what he may believe, or, not believe.

He a moslem.

i have no interest in you gandalf

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:36pm:

At least admit one thing Yadda, as I believe you are at heart and honest person:

you have no interest whatsoever in trying to understand my point of view or the point of view of muslims - the only thing you are interested in these debates is how you can use them to mock and ridicule muslims - right?

gandalf, you are mistaken.

PROPOSITION;

gandalf, this is a public forum.

It is a place where persons can debate and reason, and make propositions and arguments, IN LOGIC, and defend their OWN, PERSONAL positions on particular issues.

For my part;

From reading ISLAMIC texts, and observing the intimidating, deceitful, and murderous conduct of many, many moslems, i have come to have a particular perception, about what ISLAM is.

Your position, ....is that you appear to be happy and comfortable, to self-declare as a moslem.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

But you seem unwilling to publicly, and plainly, explain how you reconcile; 1/ mainstream ISLAMIC doctrine and 2/ ISLAM's foundation religious texts, clearly promoting political violence in the world, .....with your own declared perception, that ISLAM is a virtuous [and peace loving???] philosophy.

e.g.

Quote:

'Whosoever dies without participating in an expedition (jihad) nor having the intention to do so, dies on a branch of hypocrisy,'

- quoting ISLAMIC scripture

Google;
"Allah's Messenger said" "Whosoever dies without participating"

.

What, is a moslem ????????

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

ISLAM = = ?????????

----------- >

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

gandalf,

QUESTION;
What % of moslems, .....are moslems ???

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:09pm

gandalf is a moslem.

I am not a moslem.

Because i am not a moslem, i am oppressing gandalf.

It is as plain as the nose on your face!!

Asking a moslem, to [seriously] justify ISLAM [his own position of faith], .....is oppressing a moslem.

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1418244166/15#15

Quote:

You mean that we [infidels, on OzPol] are guilty of 'stereotyping' members of the Australian mainstream moslem community!!!!

Shock horror!!!!

Fancy having the gall to associate moslems, .......with, .....moslems!

Fancy having the gall to associate moslems, .......with, .....ISLAM [and with ISLAM's laws and tenets] !

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Google;
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

.

Yadda said....

Quote:

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Google;
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah."

Today, many moslems - living in Australia - are insisting that we, Australians, must be forced to believe the incredible;

"I'm a moslem, and i worship Allah, and i revere Mohammed his messenger.

And i know that Allah calls for the enslavement and/or murder of all non-moslems - THROUGH JIHAD [religious fighting, when moslems have that 'opportunity'].

But i don't follow that part of my faith.

HONEST!"

Dictionary;
incredible = =
1 impossible to believe.
2 difficult to believe; extraordinary.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

what a joke Yadda.

Why are you asking? To what possible end?

You are not interested in hearing my point of view, you only want to use this space to air your hatred for Islam. Thats fine of course, but please don't insult both our intelligence by pretending you have any interest in hearing me justify my beliefs or hearing the defense of Islam.

I thought you would at least have the honesty to admit this, but it seems I was wrong.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:53pm

Now now, G, no obfuscating.

Moslem == a follower of Islam.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:36pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:53pm:

Now now, G, no obfuscating.

Moslem == a follower of Islam.

Quite right.

Gandalf you are personally responsible for ISIS. All Muslims are. Clearly you won't be content until all of us convert to your religion.

It's so obvious in everything you say.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:43pm

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:36pm:

Gandalf you are personally responsible for ISIS. All Muslims are. Clearly you won't be content until all of us convert to your religion.

It's so obvious in everything you say.

I guess thats the "plain and simple reason and logic" that Yadda is after :P

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Bazza on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

Yadda has only posted truth and facts and all you do is attack and hate and make excuses for islamic atrocities. You aren't interested in finding out how islam is all bullshit clearly you are a mindless drone. A slave to satan.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:47pm

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

Slave to Satan eh? That's a new one.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Bazza on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:50pm

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:47pm:

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

Slave to Satan eh? That's a new one.

Hanky ?, your dribbling from your bottom lip troll.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:51pm

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:47pm:

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

Slave to Satan eh? That's a new one.

Hanky ?, your dribbling from your bottom lip troll.

Slave to Satan eh?

From my religious upbringing, you are more a "slave to Satan" than Gandalf.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Bazza on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:52pm

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:51pm:

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:47pm:

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

Slave to Satan eh? That's a new one.

Hanky ?, your dribbling from your bottom lip troll.

Slave to Satan eh?

From my religious upbringing, you are more a "slave to Satan" than Gandalf.

From your religious upbringing you wouldn't know either way clearly troll.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:54pm

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:52pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:51pm:

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:47pm:

Bazza wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

I [along with many others], am asking you to defend your position, AND YOUR FAITH, publicly, ....AND, WITH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, REASON AND LOGIC - WITHOUT ANY OBFUSCATION.

Slave to Satan eh? That's a new one.

Hanky ?, your dribbling from your bottom lip troll.

Slave to Satan eh?

From my religious upbringing, you are more a "slave to Satan" than Gandalf.

From your religious upbringing you wouldn't know either way clearly troll.

Yes i do. You are hateful. You only come here to spread disunity and hatred.

The work of Satan indeed.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:59pm

Bazza's left the building.

But fear not, I am confident his legacy will live on in a completely different, totally unrelated account - possibly using a hugely funny variant of mothra's name.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 10:59pm:

Bazza's left the building.

But fear not, I am confident his legacy will live on in a completely different, totally unrelated account - possibly using a hugely funny variant of mothra's name.

.
Yes i suspect i am up for an impersonation. Itr's been brewing. RNothra. rnothra. It's an old yahoo trick.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Sprintcyclist on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:06pm

islam is the cause of islamic terrorists

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:06pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:06pm:

islam is the cause of islamic terrorists

No. It isn't.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:14pm

"Yes it is!"

"No. It isn't!"

"Yes it is!"

"No. It isn't!"

"Yes it is!"

"No. It isn't!"

"Yes it is!"

"No. It isn't!"

I'm glad we got all of that out of the way.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:15pm

sprints got his intellectual cap on tonight.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:15pm:

sprints got his intellectual cap on tonight.

What i have noticed is that it is the Christians on here that are the most hateful.

It's not the religion i was raised with.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by sedi on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:36pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

He a moslem, you are oppressing him.

And he refuses to respond to your 'insinuations' as to what he may believe, or, not believe.

He a moslem.

LOL

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by mothra on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:47pm

wiseguy wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:36pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

He a moslem, you are oppressing him.

And he refuses to respond to your 'insinuations' as to what he may believe, or, not believe.

He a moslem.

LOL

Why is that funny? Seems pretty spot on to me.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am

On the Need to Think Clearly
Reflections on Paris
November 15, 2015

One has to pity—a little—politicians obliged to react publicly to events such as those on November 13 in Paris. They can’t pass over them in silence: but what can they say that does not sound banal, hollow, and obvious? They can only get it wrong, not right.

That does not excuse inexactitude and evasion, however. French president François Hollande called the attacks cowardly, but if there was one thing the attackers were not (alas, if only they had been), it was cowardly. They were evil, their ideas were deeply stupid, and they were brutal: but a man who knows that he is going to die in committing an act, no matter how atrocious, is not a coward. With the accuracy of a drone, the president homed in on the one vice that the attackers did not manifest. This establishes that bravery is not by itself a virtue, that in order for it to be a virtue it has to be exercised in pursuit of a worthwhile goal. To quote an eminent countryman of the president, Pascal: Travaillons, donc, à bien penser: voilà le principe de la morale. Let us labor, then, to think clearly: that is the principle of morality.

President Obama was not much better. He made reference in his statement to “the values we all share.” Either he was using the word “we” in some coded fashion, in spite of having just referred to the whole of humanity, or he failed to notice that the attacks were the direct consequence of the obvious fact that we—that is to say the whole of humanity—do not share the same values. If we shared the same values, politics would be reduced to arguments about administration.

Politicians are not the only ones, however, to utter worse than clichés (which have at least the merit of being true): the Irish pop star turned guru, Bono, said that the events on November 13 were an attack on music. Mr. Bono might as well have said that this was an attack on restaurants, or even on Cambodian cuisine, or for that matter on football. Apparently, in his view, if only the French government outlawed music, the terrorists would achieve their ends and would therefore desist from future attacks.

On the night of the events, I followed the coverage in the Guardian, the British liberal newspaper whose website is one of the most popular of its type in the world. When the acknowledged toll of the attacks was still “only” 40, the paper published an article saying, en passant, that the vast majority of Muslims abhorred these attacks. I do not exclude the possibility that this is so, but we do not know, and can probably never know, that it is so: for if Queen Elizabeth had “no desire to make windows into men’s souls,” we have no ability to do so, certainly on this question. But the Guardian wanted it to be so, and therefore, to its own satisfaction, it was so. This is a kind of magical thinking that persists in a supremely scientific age, and is dangerous because completely ineffective.

If ever there were a time to keep Pascal’s words in mind, this is it.
http://www.city-journal.org/2015/eon1115td.html

Evasiveness is the principal political response to Islamic terrorism, from Obama, Hollande through all the imams and Grand Miff-tis to Turnbull and Merkel and the rest of them, all the way to our lefty progs and fellow-travellers. Their venom is reserved exclusively for those who are not prepared to go along with the snivelling evasions.Nothing infuriates lefty prog herds more than disagreement.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:21am

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

Evasiveness is the principal political response to Islamic terrorism, from Obama, Hollande through all the imams and Grand Miff-tis to Turnbull and Merkel and the rest of them, all the way to our lefty progs and fellow-travellers. Their venom is reserved exclusively for those who are not prepared to go along with the snivelling evasions.Nothing infuriates lefty prog herds more than disagreement.

What do you think Soren, is it evasive of me to "snivel" against someone who posts a story about a group of thugs that beat up a shop owner and his wife in Scotland for something that happened in France, with the heading "entirely justified"?

A straight answer, if you would please.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 1:48pm:

One at a time Baron.

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

The short answer is no.

But this Tarek guy is disingenuously conflating two separate things: what the vast majority of muslim scholars understand to be the doctrine of armed jihad, and what the minority of terrorists understand it to be.

So of course if you took the definition of armed jihad to be only the definition understood by a tiny minority of islamists (and ignored the mainstream view) - then yes, that doctrine is responsible for Islamic terror.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

The actual mainstream view of armed jihad is identical to universal understandings of the right to self-defense, which no country on earth rejects, and which is even enshrined in the UN charter. So of course it is applicable to the 21st century. But the minority terrorist view of armed jihad - of course it goes without saying - it didn't apply to the 7th century, and it doesn't apply to the 21st century.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:58am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:21am:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

Like I said - disagreement draws instant evasiveness.

In any case, you make a category mistake again, Gandy AND you ignore wise counsel calling for clear thinking.
Just because someone is evasive about the role, values, influence, desirability, political aims and other qualities (or lack of qualities) of Islam doesn't mean that he is evasive about everything.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:59am

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

Nothing infuriates lefty prog herds more than disagreement.

Yes, old boy, I imagine you're right. You love disagreement. You'd fight to the death for the right of others to disagree with you. No one has the right to not be offended - or infuriated.

Except you, yes?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 12:03pm

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:21am:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

Good answer, old chap. If you want to practice shifty, arse-covering, yeah-but-no-but, spineless evasiveness, issue a lecture on the virtues of evading.

No one has the right to not be offended, and no one has the right to not be beaten up for being a dirty Muselman.

You know what you are, old boy?

You're a liberal.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:03pm

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:21am:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

Gosh Soren, I was preparing myself for an obfuscation to the question, but I didn't really expect you to ignore it altogether.

Do you think its "sniveling evasiveness" for me to speak out against someone defending the unprovoked assault on a man and his wife for the crimes of others? Yes or no S.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:03pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:21am:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

If you can tell me how that relates to what I actually posted (highlighted), I will.

Until then it's just another evasion, perfectly illustrating the very point I made.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

If you can tell me how that relates to what I actually posted (highlighted), I will

To be honest I don't know what you mean by evasiveness in the context of the article you posted. The author expresses his disagreement to various sentiments including that terrorism is cowardice and Obama's seemingly cryptic use of the word "we". Apparently he was talking about evasiveness, yet I don't understand his logic. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

But you were talking about the response to terrorism, and how in your view the "lefty progs" only ever respond with evasiveness. Well I'll tell you about the response I see S - what I see is a shop owner and his wife being set upon and assaulted by 15 thugs in Scotland, and someone defending it with the words "entirely justified". I see a teenage girl getting king hit from behind and knocked unconscious - a blow that could so easily have killed her. I see a spike in intimidatory attacks against muslims including vandalising mosques. These are the responses I see. Are they as bad as the Paris attack? Of course not, have muslims done far worse to non-muslims? Of course they have. But this was never in contention - there is no dispute about the heinous nature of Paris and other muslim atrocities. Your "lefty progs" have been tripping over themselves just like everyone else to express their condemnation and disgust at the Paris attacks. So don't go constructing that strawman. But what seems to get up your nose is the fact that its the lefty progs who are cautioning against a backlash against the muslim community - something that is a reality.

This is what you are proving yourself incapable of S - acknowledging this very real phenomenon and condemning the attacks for what they are - totally unjustified. Its like your crusade against these "lefty progs" creates some impenetrable cognitive barrier against saying anything that might be construed as acknowledging they are right. So you tiptoe around outrageous attacks against muslims and even go one step further - actually labelling those who point out the vulnerability of the muslim community as "evaders". I mean would it really kill you to say "damn the terrorists, damn Islam, barbaric blah blah blah - but yes there is a risk this could cause a backlash against innocent muslims, and I don't condone that"?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:16am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

If you can tell me how that relates to what I actually posted (highlighted), I will

Here is the explanation:

Islamic terrorism around the world is based on Islam, nothing else. Yet Bush, Obama et al immediately call Islam a religion of peace when an Islamic terrorist atrocity is committed, and immediately start babbling about tiny minorities and vast majorities - as if that somehow negated the fact that it is still about Islam and it it is Islam that needs to be confronted.

from that opening evasion comes all the others, including yours, the Grand Miff-tis and all the other devotees to Islam who immediately and always start talking as if Islamic terrorism wasn't about Islam.

So what happens with these evasions is that everything is addressed except what needs to be. Clear thinking and calling things by their names have been subverted by evasion.

Islam is not a religion of peace at all. It is a religion of Submission that will allow peace ONLY after you have submitted to it. All the Islamic terrorists attacks are carried out with the long term aim of global submission to Islam.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

If you can tell me how that relates to what I actually posted (highlighted), I will

What gets up my nose is that with Muslims and lefty progs, it's is ALWAYS ONLY about the backlash.

You are immediately get very miffed about a shopkeeper and a hijabi, which is right, EXCEPT your outspokenness is hollow and evasive because you Muslims, collectively, do nothing about the jihadis among you. A few ambiguous condemnations ( see the Grand Miff-ti's pathetic effort) and then you are onto the backlash for the next 4 weeks.

Tell us, INSTEAD, what you and your fellow Muslims are DOING to eradicate jihadis in Australia. What do you Muslims do to eradicate jihadis from Western countries and then from the world? Scores of people are gunned down in Paris and you are swinging into activism to highlight the very mild backlash. You utter inertia towards the jihadis makes your condemnations shallow and pathetic. This spoof headline sums you up perfectly:
Muslims Fear Repercussions Over Tomorrow’s Train Bombing

You are supposed to be the VAST majority. What are you doing about the train bombings BEFORE they happens? Nothing. And that's what get's up everyone's noses. You are all hot to condemn the backlash which is a backlash against your inertia, evasiveness, dissembling and double dealing. The Grand Miff-ti is a spectacular embodiment how his flock cannot be trusted. Before him, Sheikh Hilarious was the same. You look at these two and think - this is the best Muslims can come up with to represent them, to lead them, to do their thinking for them.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 4:40pm

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

If you can tell me how that relates to what I actually posted (highlighted), I will

There's nothing wrong with a bit of biffo, dear boy. It's a normal human response to the tinted races.

We liberals believe in doing whatever we like as long as it doesn't hurt the non-tinted races.

White man's burden, innit.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 7:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

....a backlash against innocent muslims.....

Google;
it is only a tiny minority of extremists

gandalf,

For me, there is no logic in such an assertion, ....in your assertion.

Indeed, your characterisation of there being "innocent moslem(s)", as a norm, to me, is offensive.

Such a characterisation of the "innocent moslem(s)" as being the norm, offends reason.

It is as though you want to suggest [as a debating argument], .....that because the moslem has not yet had a viable 'opportunity' to prove his bona-fides to his faith [in violence towards the infidel], the moslem should somehow be handed an "innocence/victim" card, .....which the moslem can produced when confronted by indignant infidels [....indignant infidels who are learning about the real moslem intent, towards those who are not moslems].

gandalf,

There is no, "innocent moslem".

How so [logically] ?

Principally, because, if you are moslem, you are a follower of ISLAM.

And ISLAM has no benign intent [none at all], towards those who are not moslems [and who reject ISLAM].

e.g.
These words are the spoken sanction [the religious license] from ISLAM's deity, ALLAH, ....to persecute [and kill!] non-moslems!

---------- >

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1418244166/15#15

Quote:

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"
- Yadda

QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

.

CRIMINAL INTENT, IN THE MOSLEM HEART
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1252898491/0#0

Quote:

Every moslem in Australia [and indeed, every moslem on the planet], by self declaring as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.

ISLAM is a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against non-moslems ['disbelievers'].

.....Basically, fundamentally, all ISLAMIC doctrine translates as enmity, and encourages [criminal] violence, towards ALL non-moslems.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 7:26pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 7:17pm:

gandalf,

.....your characterisation of there being "innocent moslem(s)", as a norm, to me, is offensive.

Such a characterisation of the "innocent moslem(s)" as being the norm, offends reason.

It is as though you want to suggest [as a debating argument], .....that because the moslem has not yet had a viable 'opportunity' to prove his bona-fides to his faith [in violence towards the infidel], the moslem should somehow be handed an "innocence/victim" card, .....which the moslem can produced when confronted by indignant infidels [....indignant infidels who are learning about the real moslem intent, towards those who are not moslems].

gandalf,

There is no, "innocent moslem".

How so [logically] ?

Principally, because, if you are moslem, you are a follower of ISLAM.

gandalf,

QUESTION;
What % of moslems, .....are moslems ???

.

What, is a moslem ????????

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

ISLAM = = ?????????

----------- >

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

ADDENDUM;

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1409991405/8#8

Quote:

Promoting and encouraging violent and unlawful acts is illegal.

We live in a country in which the people supposedly respect the rule of law.

Without widespread respect for the law of the land, we [our Australian society] would descend into being like Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Somalia, etc, etc - which is exactly what moslems are trying to achieve.

Moslems want to destroy all of the institutions in Australia, which help to maintain a peaceful and functioning society.

SUGGESTION;
If you live in Australia and you don't like what ISLAM promotes
then you should contact your federal parliamentary representative - EXPLAIN TO HIM/HER WHY YOU DO NOT LIKE ISLAM AND MOSLEMS - and encourage your federal parliamentary representative to try to get ISLAM lawfully declared a proscribed [banned] group in Australia.

Act within the law.

Otherwise we are no better than moslems.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 8:59pm

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

What gets up my nose is...

We'll need to make this one a multiple choice.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:26pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 4:40pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

If you can tell me how that relates to what I actually posted (highlighted), I will

White man's burden, innit.

You wouldn't have a clue about it, PB.

Here's ten rupee - have a banana.
Have two.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

What gets up my nose is ...

Jizz?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by ManOWar on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:56pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 8:59pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

What gets up my nose is...

ooo is it a banana I love bananas can I have a banana or some nuts.

Throw it some nuts for crying out loud.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 11:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

What gets up my nose is ...

Jizz?

No no, that goes in the old boy's bottom.

It comes out of his nose.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by sedi on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 1:40am

Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 11:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

What gets up my nose is ...

Jizz?

No no, that goes in the old boy's bottom.

It comes out of his nose.

You should know.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:19am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Funny how there is a constant disagreement about the eternal word of god among Muslims.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (this must be the Religion of Peace quote, yes?)

And so on, and so on.

The scholars and the jihadis disagree on what it all means? I don't think so. They may disagree on az word here and a word there (are we at war?) but the meaning and the spirit of these and many other verses is pretty clear. In fact these may be the least obscure and ambiguous bits of the texts.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Sounds like spineless apologetics Gandalf.

The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas is a respected work from Imam Ibn Nuhaas, have any muslims ever been critical of that book or do they praise it as the best book on Jihad with sound Islamic ideology.

We have Anwar al Awlaki who wrote 44 ways to support Jihad, have any scholars ever criticised that work?

Both of these books are free to download from Islamic websites.

Was the Battle of Lepanto self defence by muslims or were they invaders who got their asses handed to them?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:35am

Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 11:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am:

What gets up my nose is ...

Jizz?

No no, that goes in the old boy's bottom.

It comes out of his nose.

Ah, of course!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_ilymWo4s

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

This is what you are proving yourself incapable of S - acknowledging this very real phenomenon and condemning the attacks for what they are - totally unjustified. Its like your crusade against these "lefty progs" creates some impenetrable cognitive barrier against saying anything that might be construed as acknowledging they are right. So you tiptoe around outrageous attacks against muslims and even go one step further - actually labelling those who point out the vulnerability of the muslim community as "evaders". I mean would it really kill you to say "damn the terrorists, damn Islam, barbaric blah blah blah - but yes there is a risk this could cause a backlash against innocent muslims, and I don't condone that"?

Why does the examination of Islam and Muslims in the West ALWAYS start with Western response to Muslim provocation? With the Muslims it's always, "Deplorable attack on innocents - anyway, lets talk about our victimhood until the next deplorable attack (that has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin', BTW)."

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:49am

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Why does the examination of Islam and Muslims in the West ALWAYS start with Western response to Muslim provocation? With the Muslims it's always, "Deplorable attack on innocents - anyway, lets talk about our victimhood until the next deplorable attack (that has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin', BTW)."

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

More excuses for killers.

Apologist.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:49am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Why does the examination of Islam and Muslims in the West ALWAYS start with Western response to Muslim provocation? With the Muslims it's always, "Deplorable attack on innocents - anyway, lets talk about our victimhood until the next deplorable attack (that has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin', BTW)."

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

More excuses for killers.

Apologist.

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter. Is it excusing the guilty if the motivation of greed or lust or Islam is identified, especially if identified by the perpetrators themselves? Most people here and in the wider world, I expect, are amazed to see the unplumbed depths of your stupidity.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:25am

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Dictionary,
malice aforethought = = Law the intention to kill or harm, held to distinguish unlawful killing from murder.

.

IMAGE....

Quote:

25 May 2007

"......Al-Faisal spent years travelling the UK preaching racial hatred urging his audience to kill Jews, Hindus and Westerners.

......But throughout the trial he denied he had intended to incite people to violence.

......he argued his talks came from the Koran and if he was on trial so was the holy text."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6692243.stm

.

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

.

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

.

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Most people here and in the wider world, I expect, are amazed to see the unplumbed depths of your stupidity.

I am.

greggery,

Is is deep, deep in the darkness.

And it is clear, that he doesn't want to find a way back to the light.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil moron, aintcha, gweggy.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

I don't have a nasty bone in my body.

I'm a better person than you could ever hope to be.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by sedi on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

I don't have a nasty bone in my body.

I'm a better person than you could ever hope to be.

Nah you are an evil vile pig. A self hater obviously so you need to lash out at those around you to try and appease your self hate. Just like that mothra waste of space.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:09pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

;D ;D ;D
Evil and childishly stupid at the same time.

You stand apart.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:10pm

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

Evil and childishly stupid at the same time.

Yes.

That describes you quite well.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by sedi on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:29pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

Evil and childishly stupid at the same time.

Yes.

That describes me quite well.

Well said.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 7:19pm

wiseguy wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

Evil and childishly stupid at the same time.

Yes.

That describes me quite well.

Well said.

Gweg is Turd of Turd Hall

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 8:17am

Soren wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

On the Need to Think Clearly
Reflections on Paris
November 15, 2015

To quote an eminent countryman of the president, Pascal: Travaillons, donc, à bien penser: voilà le principe de la morale. Let us labor, then, to think clearly: that is the principle of morality.

According to Waleed Aly, ISIS is weak but it hides this because it wants us all to be afraid, very afraid. Its whole purpose is that our fear will turn to hate, and hate will ripen into ‘World War III’.

All people of good will who would stand against ISIS, Muslim or non-Muslim alike, must therefore come together in unity. According to Waleed Aly, love, and less hate is what we need.

Waleed Aly is absolutely right that we do need love. But like the air we breathe, love by itself is not enough. It is not all we need.

We also need truth, and a whole lot more of it. John's gospel reports that Jesus came ‘full of grace and truth.’ Truth without grace becomes a police state. But grace without truth is every bit as dangerous.

Waleed Aly himself rightly identified the Paris atrocity as an “Islamist terrorist attack”. It is not hatred to ask what this word ‘Islamist’ actually means.

He was also right to point out that ISIS wants to set non-Muslims and Muslims against each other. But this is not all ISIS wants, and saying this does not explain why they want it. It is not enough to say “ISIS wants to cause World War III,” for war is but a means to an end. This tactic is a symptom of a problem, not its root cause.

Asking hard questions is not evidence of lack of love. It is not victimizing Muslims to seek to understand the theology of the jihadis. Asking how and why ISIS makes use of the Qur’an or the model of Muhammad is not vilification.

These points are important because the feeling of being unloved by itself is not enough to turn so many young people into killers. There are many communities in the world which experience hatred, but this is rarely enough on its own to give rise to virulent, violent global ideologies.

No one could dispute that the tactic of intentionally using violence to incite fear and hatred is one of the weapons in the jihadis’ arsenal, but it is just that: a tactic. Hatred incited by violence is not the heart of the matter, nor the fundamental driver in this war. It is but a symptom of deeper things.

Hatred can fuel this war, but love alone will not put it out.

Furthermore, a danger with Waleed Aly's rhetoric is that it could work as a wedge to separate love from truth, treating the two as strangers. It could be used as a pretext to censor those who ask the hard questions, on the grounds that this is unloving. In this struggle it is wrong to privilege either love or truth, for we will need both.

Truth without love can cause endless heartache. This is true. But love without truth can cause a naive blindness which meekly tolerates abuse and leads to suicidal submission.

This is likely to be a very long war. Relationships will be strained. And yes, we will all need a lot of compassion. But without truth to strengthen it, love alone will not save us.
http://blog.markdurie.com/2015/11/love-alone-is-not-enough.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MarkduriecomBlog+%28markdurie.com+blog%29

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 8:50am

Nice blog, dear boy. It’s good to see you posting on love.

But truth? Oh, old boy, you are naughty.

But we all love you.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by wiseguy on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 4:37pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 8:50am:

Nice blog, dear boy. It’s good to see you posting on love.

But truth? Oh, old boy, you are naughty.

But we all love you.

We being all the personalities inside your head. :D

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by aquascoot on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 5:47pm

the day you are born , you are born into a war between good and evil.

i'm afraid that after reading all of that, i can only say that Yadda has the more persuasive arguements (though his formatting style could lead one to take the name of the lord in vain). ;) ;)

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 6:50pm

aquascoot wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 5:47pm:

Jesus Christ, you mean, aquascoot.       :)

I know,    ......that i can be a very trying person.

Dear Father, please forgive me,       ....for testing many, many people.       :)

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 7:08pm

An article, ....in the very same vein as the OP, and the title of this thread;

------ >

Quote:

Mark Durie: Paris attacks not ‘nihilism’ but ‘sacred strategy’

November 18, 2015

.....
.....The claim that ISIS does not ‘revere life’ seems to refer to any number of statements by Islamic radicals, including an ISIS militant who vowed to ‘fill the streets of Paris with dead bodies’, and boasted that ISIS ‘loves death like you love life’ (see here). This is a theological reference to a series of verses in the Qur’an in which Jews are criticised for desiring life (Sura 2:94-96, 62:6-8).

According to the Qur’an, loving life is a characteristic of infidels (Sura 3:14; 14:3; 75:20; 76:27) because it causes them to disregard the importance of the next life. The taunt much used by jihadis, ‘We love death like you love life’, implies that jihadis are bound for paradise while their enemies are hell-bound.

The point of these statements is that Muslims are willing to fight to the death, while their infidel enemies will turn back in battle. This is not about reverence for life, but about who has the will to win. This has nothing to do with nihilism, which is a belief that there are no values, nothing to be loyal to, and no purpose in living. In fact ISIS fighters have strong and clear loyalties and values, alien though they may be to those of Europe.
.....
.....

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/mark-durie-paris-attacks-not-nihilism-but-sacred-strategy

a pertinent comment, and GOOD advice made, below the JW article, by 'dumbledoresarmy'

Quote:

dumbledoresarmy says

November 19, 2015 at 8:48 am

I have met him [Mark Durie].

He’s lovely.

And with all his scholarship (he has a background in Linguistics, he’s a fellow of the Australian Research Council, and has studied at the University of Leiden, under the formidable Dutch scholar of Islam, the late Hans Jansen) he’s a humble parish priest, pastoring an Anglican congregation, right here in Australia. His parishioners are very fortunate.

I hope his Bishop appreciates him…and i hope his Bishop realizes what a fantastic asset he is, to the Anglican church in Australia and beyond, to the church in general, to all of Australia, and beyond.

.....I am doing my best to promote Durie, among my fellow Anglicans, as a ‘go-to’ source on Islam.

*He’s* the sort of person our church leaders and political leaders and most especially our journalists should be turning to, first up, for a comment, and for information, when something like this terror raid in Paris explodes onto our TV screens.

Mr Turnbull, et al, you cannot defeat ideas with bombs [.....in a foreign land].

And we can't defeat ISIS, in Syria, nor Iraq.

Mr Turnbull if we are going to defeat ISIS/ISLAM, .....we must defeat ISIS/ISLAM in Australia.

We have to confront the ISIS cadres, where they exist.

Especially when they exist among us.

Belgistan? Sharia Showdown Looms in Brussels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjNIaIoZKAE

What Normal Muslims Think - And Europe Fails to Understand -------- > goto 41 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYAcLudBbhg

Poll_ 31% of Syrian migrants support ISIS and Trudeau is importing 25,000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maY_Jh4V8xg

Mr Turnbull; ISIS is well established, here, within Australia!

Watch a group of moslem children, being coached by moslem adults, to hate Australia, and Australians,
......HERE, WITHIN AUSTRALIA. !!!!

And of course this cultural coaching of moslem children is all happening behind closed doors, and out of the public eye.

------------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia -------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by aquascoot on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 7:09pm

i like christianity Yadda, i like buddhism, i like confuscius.

i have tried to research a bit of islam.
there is some good practical stuff about hospitality and generosity to strangers but, the people supporting islam are going to have to do a much better job of marketing it (if indeed it is marketable).

the catholic church, the popes, various corrupt christians held the church back, but the message is a good message and you cant keep a good message down.

is islam a good message?

i would appreciate if its supporters would explain what it has to offer.

i always found christianity was a good place to send people who were lonely, depressed, sad, feeling lost.
the evangelical churches provide something for these people.

is islam a place where the angry, the vengeful, the disturbed, the bitter end up?
is this why islam seems good at recruiting in jail for example?
if so, should they take these converts on?
is it tainting "team islam"

they have some explaining to do .
obviously not all 1 billion are extremist but what does your average muslim believe.

you would think that with 1 billion followers we would have David Attenborrough presenting documentaries on muslims every sunday night but they seem more evasive then Freemasons.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 7:29pm

aquascoot wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 7:09pm:

aquascoot,

I could sum up, in just one word, what ISLAM has to offer.

aquascoot,

I highly recommend to you, the Mark Durie article.

His article is very elucidatory, about ~~the essential~~ the fundamental nature of ISLAM.

Quote:

Mark Durie: Paris attacks not ‘nihilism’ but ‘sacred strategy’

November 18, 2015

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/mark-durie-paris-attacks-not-nihilism-but-sacred-strategy

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by aquascoot on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 9:58pm

Yadda, i read that.
indeed, it does appear that it is the western politicians who are the insane people and ISIS know exactly what they are doing.

a good read and thanks.

i always thought the western leaders had totally misunderstood the situation.

When george Bush said the pilots on 9/11 had acted in a cowardly way....i thought , straight up, GW...thats just plain wrong.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 24^th, 2015 at 12:07am

Yadda wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 7:08pm:

What i mean by those words, is this;

If moslems want ISLAM,       ....then let moslems have ISLAM,    .....and let them have ISLAM, in Syria, and in Iraq, and in Egypt, and in Iran,
.....and let moslems have ISLAM, in every [already] majority moslem country on this planet.       !!!!!

And let moslems have too,       what ISLAM invariably brings to every society of men.       !!!!!

Because ISLAM produces,       ....only [political] corruption, [political] oppression, injustice, human poverty, and, dead bodies. [Paris, 2015, Nov ????]

The truth is that ISLAM is an evil philosophy, which, imo, 'creates' a mental pathology [a 'sickness'] in the psyche of those human beings who choose to embrace it.

And,             .....ISLAM is spread by moslems.

BUT, Mr Turnbull, et al,       ......we who are not moslems,          ....should not allow moslems to live among us.

Why so ?

Because, imo, ISLAM is a 'poison' to the human psyche.

Because ISLAM causes a serious pathology in the human psyche, imo.

Why so ?

Because in examining the tenets of ISLAMIC 'culture', it easy to see [for some of us],    ....that ISLAM is a great and dangerous spiritual evil, in the world.

BUT, Mr Turnbull, et al, [our political leaders]       .....are you willing to choose 'the good',          ......are you willing to discriminate, in favour of the protection of the innocent [and in favour of those with more virtue, than 'the moslem'] ?

Dictionary;
discrimination = =
1 the action of discriminating against people.
2 recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. good judgement or taste.

AND;

Dictionary;
discriminating = = having or showing good taste or judgement.

I say again,       LET MOSLEMS, HAVE ISLAM, IN THEIR OWN HOMELANDS,             ....but not here!

Not here, in Australia!

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1352933495/51#51

Quote:

....a moslem, is a moslem, because he subscribes to the philosophy called ISLAM.

ISLAM mandates never-ending warfare against those who are not moslems.

That is what ISLAM is.

ISLAM is a philosophy which inculcates a desire to perpetrate murder, and terrorism, into men's brains.

ISLAM is a disease which infects the human psyche.

ISLAM is a cancer.

Its cadres enter new nations, and establish themselves, spreading their 'values' within the host culture.

A cancer does not kill its host in one day.

Cancer slowly grows, within the host, destroying the hosts ability to throw off dis-ease.

Then one day, the cancer overwhelms the weakened body.

And the body dies.

And what is left ?

e.g.
Taliban, Afghanistan.

Sudan.

Somalia.

A Saudi Arabia [....without oil revenues.]

A Turkey, without a secular society.

An Egypt, with an 'Arab spring'.

And on, and on.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 24^th, 2015 at 12:35am

aquascoot wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 9:58pm:

Yadda, i read that.
indeed, it does appear that it is the western politicians who are the insane people

and ISIS know exactly what they are doing.

aquascoot,

I concur with your conclusion(s). !!!!!

aquascoot wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2015 at 9:58pm:

a good read and thanks.

i always thought the western leaders had totally misunderstood the situation.

When george Bush said the pilots on 9/11 had acted in a cowardly way....i thought , straight up, GW...thats just plain wrong.

Yep.

The Mark Durie article.

Mark Durie, has got his head screwed on, properly!       ;)

He is a moral, and honest man.

The form of democracy which we 'enjoy', has taught Western politicians [they have 'learned'], that it is invariably in their own best interests, to always do what is 'for the greater good', rather than to do what is right [correct], and the most virtuous.

More pity, us!!!!!

i.e.
I have always believed, that if we [i.e. our government!] can be cajoled, to always protect the rights of the individual,    then [as a consequence] the greater rights of the broader society of men too, will always be protected.

Whereas, when the rights if the individual are subverted [through the 'ideals' of e.g. socialism], so as 'to protect the greater good', then we are all asking for trouble!

That way, leads to tyranny, and to the ready oppression, of the [i.e. every !! ] individual, imo.

Personally, i don't believe that a society of men can maintain a system of government,    which can protect man's liberty and freedom,       from man's stupidity and corruption.

Something about blood, and liberty tree's ???

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by aquascoot on Nov 24^th, 2015 at 7:53pm

thanks yadda.

"seek first to understand , then to be understood"

it seems those who claim to understand the Koran, dont want to help us understand. their silence is deafening.

If anyone out there has a good understanding of the good points about the islamic faith , i'm here waiting to try to understand it.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 24^th, 2015 at 8:12pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Told'ya.

:)

Ibn Nuhaas gets good reviews for The Book of Jihad

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:38am

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

There you go again with the stale strawman. I condemn terrorism in the name of Islam - always, no qualifications. And yet because I also say a backlash against innocent muslims in response should also be condemned - it somehow makes me evasive or an apologist or whatever.

I seem to be the only person condemning intimidation and violence against all innocents. It would be a very simple thing indeed for you to say "Islam is so evil - bah Islam!! - but at the same time its unacceptable to resort to violence and intimidation against muslims who have done no wrong". Why is that so difficult S? Seriously?

And whats with this "you" [are the perpertrator]? - as in me personally? Here little old me going about my business not hurting anyone, condemning violence whenever I see it - but somehow I'm a "perpetrator"? That is highly offensive - which of course you have a right to be.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:57am

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Sounds like spineless apologetics Gandalf.

- translation: if you don't agree with my perverted version of Islam, I'll label you a spineless apologist.

Quote:

The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas is a respected work from Imam Ibn Nuhaas, have any muslims ever been critical of that book or do they praise it as the best book on Jihad with sound Islamic ideology.

We have Anwar al Awlaki who wrote 44 ways to support Jihad, have any scholars ever criticised that work?

Both of these books are free to download from Islamic websites.

Oh look, Baron's appealing to scholarly authority to argue the ISIS version of Islam.

Can I play too? How about the 600 page fatwa against terrorism - endorsed by the Al-Azhar university in Cairo - described as "Sunni Islam's most prestigious university", and believed to be the Islamic world's oldest degree granting university? Does that count for anything? Perhaps you can trot out a laundry list of salafist scholars who have criticised that? No doubt that will "prove" that Islam really disapproves of it right?

Or how about the open letter from leading American muslim scholars giving fully cited point by point refutation of ISIS ideology? No doubt you'll wave your magic wand and find some obscure no-name scholar who has denounced it, and *poof!* magically, Islam is against it.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 11:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Sounds like spineless apologetics Gandalf.

- translation: if you don't agree with my perverted version of Islam, I'll label you a spineless apologist.

Quote:

I have never seen any bad reviews by muslims of The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas, can you cite any Gandalf?

Can you cite any bad reviews of 44 ways to support Jihad by Anwar al Awlaki?

Why did Qadri need 600 pages for his terror Fatwa if Islamic terror is not halal, if it was unislamic as some ignorant muslims claim then surely only one page would have been required.
Why did he leave out We have decreed upon the children of Israel when citing 5/32?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:02pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 11:33am:

I have never seen any bad reviews by muslims of The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas, can you cite any Gandalf?

Can you cite any bad reviews of 44 ways to support Jihad by Anwar al Awlaki?

I must admit I've never looked - have you?

But have you ever read any bad reviews of the 600 page fatwa by muslim scholars or the open letter to Baghdadi? I mean thats the logic you are using - so I'm surprised you haven't trotted any out already.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:38am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am:

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

gandalf,

That must be the ISLAM, .....in which it is an article of faith, that 100% of non-moslems [who reject ISLAM] deserve death ?

And, the very same ISLAM in which it is an article of faith, that every moslem [when he is given such an 'opportunity' by Allah's providence], ought to be the agent of that death, of the disbeliever ?

And that is the ISLAM, .....in whose name, you condemn ~~moslem political violence~~ terrorism against non-moslems ?

---------- >

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

MURDERING DISBELIEVERS IS 'LAWFUL'.

In fact, murdering disbelievers [who reject ISLAM] is an article of faith, of ISLAM!

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

THE EXAMPLE OF MOHAMMED [Allah's messenger]

MOHAMMED INSTRUCTS THE MOSLEM, THAT MURDERING FOR HIS 'RELIGION' IS HALAL....

"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #005.059.369

MOHAMMED [Allah's messenger] INSTRUCTS THE MOSLEM, THAT MURDERING A POETESS [WHO IS 'THREATENING' HIS 'RELIGION'] IS HALAL....

Quote:

Ishaq: 676 “[Context note: Asma bint Marwan was a writer. She wrote critically of Muhammad, telling her tribe to be wary of him, like this:] ‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling baby and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said, ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’ ”

http://www.foundalis.com/rlg/Islam_and_peace.htm

[/quote]

STRAIGHT FROM MOHAMMED'S MOUTH

------------- >

"I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid [religious fighter] in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.046

In the Hadith verse above, Mohammed is reported as saying that for a moslem, religious fighting, is the same as a religious devotion.
i.e. Jihad [religious fighting], is as if a muslim 'fasts and prays continuously'.
And in Koran 9.111, Allah guarantees that a Mujahid [religious fighter] will enter Paradise, if he is killed, while seeking to kill Allah's enemies.

.

Google;
"Allah's Messenger said" "Whosoever dies without participating"

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:43pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:39pm:

gandalf,

That must be the ISLAM, .....in which it is an article of faith, whose mainstream doctrine commands that 100% of non-moslems [who reject ISLAM] deserve death ?

nope :)

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 1:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:38am:

I seem to be the only person condemning intimidation and violence against all innocents.

It would be a very simple thing indeed for you to say "Islam is so evil - bah Islam!! - but at the same time its unacceptable to resort to violence and intimidation against muslims who have done no wrong". Why is that so difficult S? Seriously?

gandalf,

YOUR ARGUMENT, to me, seems to be;

That you want to suggest [as a debating argument],    .....that in every instance,    ....where the moslem has not yet had a viable 'opportunity' to prove his bona-fides to his faith [in violence towards the infidel],    .....then the moslem should somehow be handed an "innocence/victim" card,    .....which the moslem can produce when confronted by indignant infidels    [....indignant infidels who are learning about the real moslem intent, towards those who are not moslems].

i.e.

So, your argument, is that;

"Many moslems, are innocent people....."    .....although,    .....we know that 100% of moslems follow a 'religious' philosophy which urges every moslem to work together with his brothers, to subjugate [OR MURDER] those who do not believe, what moslems believe ?

gandalf,

So please, do tell us;

What % of moslems,          .....are moslems ???

And what % of moslems,          .....are moslem impersonators ???

.....you know [in the 2nd category],    .....the terrorists, who are merely pretending to be real moslems.

EVIDENCE WHICH SUPPORTS MY ASSERTIONS/PROPOSITION,    THAT EVERY MOSLEM, ....IS A MOSLEM.

----------- >

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

.

What, is a moslem ????????

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

ISLAM = = ?????????

----------- >

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 1:41pm

Yadda I'm going to pay you a compliment, so brace yourself.

At least you have come out and condemned anti-Islam violence before.

I can't say the same for Soren.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 1:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Sounds like spineless apologetics Gandalf.

- translation: if you don't agree with my perverted version of Islam, I'll label you a spineless apologist.

Quote:

Oh look, Baron's appealing to scholarly authority to argue the ISIS version of Islam.

Coz we all know, that the scholars of mainstream ISLAM, from all over the world, have proven that;

ISIS are simply a bunch of violent heretics [and are simply moslem impersonators], who are acting without a shred of scriptural authority from the Koran, nor any other ISLAMIC texts.

Right, gandalf ?

Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1447741910/49#49

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

Sounds like spineless apologetics Gandalf.

- translation: if you don't agree with my perverted version of Islam, I'll label you a spineless apologist.

Quote:

Yeah, moslems oppose terrorism!!!

Whoop-dee-doo!!!    :o

'fatwa against terrorism' = = a fatwa against 'terrorism', as defined as, opposition to Allah's will,    .....aka, disbelief.

To mainstream ISLAM, rejection of ISLAM's authority to rule all of mankind,    ...is the principle form of 'terrorism' which moslem clerics everywhere oppose!

This declaration by Sunni clerics, is nothing more, than ISLAMIST/moslem sophistry, imo.

Dictionary
lexicon = = the vocabulary of a person, language, or branch of knowledge.

Google,
Islam Lexicon for Dummies

"ISLAM is a peaceful, tolerant faith."

....insist an international coterie of Islamic scholars who all back MAINSTREAM ISLAMIC doctrines.

Quote:

6 Elements of ‘Extremist’ Islam That ‘Moderate’ Muslims Endorsed as They Condemned the Islamic State
Robert Spencer Sep 30, 2014

Hamas-linked CAIR and an international coterie of Islamic scholars condemned the Islamic State.

In doing so, they endorsed jihad warfare, dhimmitude, stoning for adultery, amputation for theft, the death penalty for apostasy, and the necessity of the caliphate.....

At last, moderate Islam! The Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Fiqh Council of North America held a press conference in Washington on Wednesday at which they announced with great fanfare that they had refuted the religious ideology of the Islamic State. They issued this lengthy “open letter” (not, interestingly enough, a fatwa) addressed to the Islamic State’s caliph Ibrahim, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, explaining how he was misunderstanding Islam.

[BUT.....] In fact, the “moderates” who signed on to this open letter have ended up endorsing elements of Islam that most non-Muslim Westerners consider to be “extremist.”

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/robert-spencer-in-pj-media-6-elements-of-extremist-islam-that-moderate-muslims-endorsed-as-they-condemned-the-islamic-state
http://pjmedia.com/blog/6-elements-of-extremist-islam-that-moderate-muslims-endorsed-as-they-condemned-the-islamic-state/?singlepage=true

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 11:33am:

I have never seen any bad reviews by muslims of The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas, can you cite any Gandalf?

Can you cite any bad reviews of 44 ways to support Jihad by Anwar al Awlaki?

I have not seen a single bad review of the book of jihad, all the muslims say it's the best book for jihad.

According to Dr Farrukh Salem the majority of the Islamic world is illiterate so how can they read this 600 page fatwa?

How many muslims are going to read a 600 page fatwa outlawing what the Quran and Sunnah allow?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Yadda on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:21pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 11:33am:

I have never seen any bad reviews by muslims of The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas, can you cite any Gandalf?

Can you cite any bad reviews of 44 ways to support Jihad by Anwar al Awlaki?

".....a 600 page fatwa outlawing what the Quran and Sunnah allow?"

This sounds very heretical to me!!!! ;) ;D

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:24pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:21pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 11:33am:

I have never seen any bad reviews by muslims of The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas, can you cite any Gandalf?

Can you cite any bad reviews of 44 ways to support Jihad by Anwar al Awlaki?

".....a 600 page fatwa outlawing what the Quran and Sunnah allow?"

This sounds very heretical to me!!!! ;) ;D

How many terror attacks have muslims done since the Qadri fatwad, does it appear they took no notice of it ?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:31pm

So you know of no Islamic scholar who has criticised the fatwa. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now can I use your logic to "prove" that Islam is against terrorism? If not, why not?

Perhaps you can actually address the point for once Baron.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Which fatwa Gandalf, was it the breastfeeding fatwa... ;D

How is Islam against terrorism when it's propagated by muslims with an urgent desire to meet Mo's sock puppet called Allah?

What point should I address?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:44pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:39pm:

What point should I address?

Has any Islamic scholar criticised the 600 page fatwa against terrorism?

Pretty simple Baron.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

"Islamic scholar" - you say that as if being one was in any way the sign of intelligence.

SOme of the biggest idiots on this earth are Islamic scholars:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/webtv/reports/2015/02/16/Saudi-cleric-rejects-that-Earth-revolves-around-the-Sun.html

Anyway, who takes notice of Islamic scholars who issue fatwas against terrorists? Judging from the spread of Islamic terrorism, nobody.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 2:04pm

Soren wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:49pm:

"Islamic scholar" - you say that as if being one was in any way the sign of intelligence.

Baron attaches great weight to Islamic scholarly authority. Suggest you take it up with him.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 10:43am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:49pm:

"Islamic scholar" - you say that as if being one was in any way the sign of intelligence.

Baron attaches great weight to Islamic scholarly authority. Suggest you take it up with him.

More fool him, then.

But of course he doesn't. I think he is asking the same question about Muslims scholars I asked - who cares what they say in a 600 page fatwa? Who reads 600 page fatwas?

Islamic scholars are like Newton's Third Law of Motion: for every Islamic scholar and fatwa there is an equal and opposite scholar and fatwa.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 10:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:39pm:

What point should I address?

Has any Islamic scholar criticised the 600 page fatwa against terrorism?

Pretty simple Baron.

How many muslims have read that Fatwa Gandalf?

Is the majority of the Islamic world illiterate, how can they read it?

If Islamic terror was unislamic why did Qadri need 600 pages for his Fatwa?

Does the Qadri Fatwa expose the muslims who claim terror is unislamic as liars?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 11:25am

hmmm "no" expressed as 4 separate rhetorical questions. So many interesting and creative ways to avoid answering the question.

Your deft tapdancing is quite impressive.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:19pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:39pm:

What point should I address?

Has any Islamic scholar criticised the 600 page fatwa against terrorism?

Pretty simple Baron.

Hang on Baron a minute ago you were explaining to me how Al Awlaki's fatwas are fully endorsed by Islam because we don't know of any specific Islamic condemnations of it. Now when I apply the exact same logic regarding the terrorism fatwa you're all "how many muslims bother reading it" and "most muslims are illiterate". So apparently all muslims are fully versed on an obscure American's rantings and naturally accept it as gospel truth, but we all suddenly transform into illiterate hicks when it comes to literature condemning violence, and thats the only reason no one condemns it.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 2:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:39pm:

What point should I address?

Has any Islamic scholar criticised the 600 page fatwa against terrorism?

Pretty simple Baron.

Hang on Baron a minute ago you were explaining to me how Al Awlaki's fatwas are fully endorsed by Islam

Can you cite where I mentioned fatwas by Awlaki?

Anwar al Awlaki wrote the book 44 Ways to support Jihad, have any muslims ever been critical of anything in that book?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 2:52pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:49pm:

"Islamic scholar" - you say that as if being one was in any way the sign of intelligence.

Baron attaches great weight to Islamic scholarly authority. Suggest you take it up with him.

Can you cite where I said that?

Is this an example of Islamic scholars?
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=breastfeeding+fatwa

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 2:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:49pm:

"Islamic scholar" - you say that as if being one was in any way the sign of intelligence.

Baron attaches great weight to Islamic scholarly authority. Suggest you take it up with him.

Can you cite where I said that?

Is this an example of Islamic scholars?
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=breastfeeding+fatwa

Oh, sorry, must have mistaken that all those times you reference islamqa and never fail to mention its the oldest internet Islam scholar, and that he comes from Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:45pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 2:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 2:39pm:

What point should I address?

Has any Islamic scholar criticised the 600 page fatwa against terrorism?

Pretty simple Baron.

Hang on Baron a minute ago you were explaining to me how Al Awlaki's fatwas are fully endorsed by Islam

Can you cite where I mentioned fatwas by Awlaki?

Anwar al Awlaki wrote the book 44 Ways to support Jihad, have any muslims ever been critical of anything in that book?

right, books by Awlaki - that apparently are so authoritative and so reverred by muslims because there are no known criticisms of it. Thats your argument right? So they may as well be fatwas then.

So why can't I use the same logic to argue that the 600 page fatwa is just as authoritative? Oh thats right, because no one's read them and besides most muslims are illiterate. But we mustn't make that same point when talking about Awlaki's books - no the lack of criticisms of those books can't possibly be because no one has read them, or that most muslims are illiterate.

You get where I'm going Baron? Of course not, you're ignoring it and mulling over your next inane rhetorical question. As you were.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:47pm

Soren wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Saudi Arabia- the centre of the Islam world - according to Baron.

Not according to gandalf.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Baronvonrort on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:50pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Saudi Arabia- the centre of the Islam world - according to Baron.

.

Do muslims face Mecca in Saudi Arabia when they tap their heads on the ground with their asses in the air?

One of the 5 pillars of Islam is Hajj, do you go to Saudi Arabia for that Gandalf?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 4:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Saudi Arabia- the centre of the Islam world - according to Baron.

Not according to gandalf.

Which Muslim country has Islam right?

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 9:50am

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:50pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Saudi Arabia- the centre of the Islam world - according to Baron.

.

Do muslims face Mecca in Saudi Arabia when they tap their heads on the ground with their asses in the air?

One of the 5 pillars of Islam is Hajj, do you go to Saudi Arabia for that Gandalf?

Mecca became the (geographical) centre of the muslim world long before either the state of Saudi Arabia or its wahabist ideology emerged.

Facing Mecca to pray =/= acknowledging the modern nation state of Saudi Arabia as the centre of the muslim world. Thats about as retarded as saying that christians who acknowledge places like Bethabara, in modern day Jordan (a muslim country), as Christian holy sites, actually acknowledge Islam as part of Christianity

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by gandalf on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 9:55am

Soren wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 4:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Saudi Arabia- the centre of the Islam world - according to Baron.

Not according to gandalf.

Which Muslim country has Islam right?

You ask that after I've explained ad-infinitum that I don't consider Islam to be about creating nation states, or enforcing rules and legal codes.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Karnal on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 1:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Soren wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 4:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Saudi Arabia - the centre of the Islamic world.

And yet - Saudi Arabia gets Islam completely wrong, apparently. Or is Saudi the ideal Muslim state?

Please explain.

Saudi Arabia- the centre of the Islam world - according to Baron.

Not according to gandalf.

Which Muslim country has Islam right?

You ask that after I've explained ad-infinitum that I don't consider Islam to be about creating nation states, or enforcing rules and legal codes.

Oh, I think he'll ask you anything to avoid answering why he supports the castration of Muslims, the burning of mosques, the random shooting of Muslims and their apologists, not to mention his own right to not be offended, his old boy victim complex, and his squishy, spineless, yeah-but-no-but reflexiveness on non-Muslim violence.

Title: Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Post by Soren on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 8:59pm