nihilism - the choice and the path of the secular man


paraphrasing Lily Allen;

"i am a weapon of massive consumption",      .....and a weapon of massive pleasure seeking.           :)


Dictionary;
secular = = not religious, sacred, or spiritual.




aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 7:25am:

Kytro wrote on Dec 18th, 2015 at 7:00am: Science is a method of study and discovery. It gives us tools that help solve problems even social problems, but it is still a method. Community is important (and all to infrequent these days), but community does not need to come from religion. There isn't a necessity for it.  People are living in huge groups, but with less community and we are not so well equipped to deal with modern life. this is true kyrto, because science is a rudderless ship and secularism as well has no direction. secularism seeks to replace genuine contentment (how i feel when i sit and look at my horses for an hour and feel content) with stimulation. stimulation of the palate with sugars and spicey pizza stimualtion with iphones and games and stimualtion from the validation of instagram and facebook if you catch a bus, everyone has headphones and the latest scientific technology games and devices. apple watches to look at their heart rate and gps. movies are becoming bigger louder and faster. science will give you this stimulation (which is really a distraction) because chode behaviour can live in this stimulation realm. life becomes meaningless. if we replace religion with the great thinkers then this may work but many of these were religious , or certainly spiritual. Jesus buddha Lao tzu aquascoot study these people may work, i dont think you can just leave the space empty or you will have people in nihilism and neurotic negative thinking.

aquascoot,

Lily Allen's song, The Fear,        .....describes well, imo, the "nihilism and neurotic.....thinking" so prevalent among people living within Western societies today.

Most people, when left to their own devices, will [imo, thoughtlessly - - greedily ??!   :)  ] choose both secularism and pleasure seeking, simply because of the promised 'destinations' [personal freedom and carnal satisfaction] which are offered by such choices.



But i think you know [aquascoot], that the actual destinations are not personal freedom nor carnal satisfaction.

The actual destinations, are spiritual bondage and misery.



Lily Allen sings about it.

------- >

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434160480/19#19



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And of course, along comes a philosophy [of man] like ISLAM,       ....and ISLAM offers promises, fulfillment,          ....and an escape from that "nihilism and neurotic.....thinking" which is so prevalent within every Western society!!!

And it is a false promise so difficult for many to resist.

And, it is a false promise,      ....straight from the mind and the lips of SATAN himself.

But those who have become enthralled by ISLAM and its philosophy,     ....are blind to the spiritual danger which many are placing themselves in.


Dictionary;
enthral = =
1  capture the fascinated attention of.
2  enslave.

And the object lesson in all of this ?




It is that,      ....we have all been permitted to make our own choices in this life.

And i can assure you, that our choices in this life,          ......will invariably be based upon what type of spirits [yes, plural] are within our hearts!


Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.


Matthew 6:21
......where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22  The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23  But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!




God [my God!] has been very clever.        [....in his plan]

Whereas, many, many men, though they think that in choosing what is evil, that they are wise [i.e. in choosing something to their own advantage],        ......they are demonstrating how dumb they are !

God [my God!] [in his creation] has planted a 'crop'.

We are the harvest.

And, in a harvest, what happens to the damaged/worthless fruit ???


Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


Matthew 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.


Luke 3:9
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.





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God, is a spirit.

Did you hear God call out to you ?


Isaiah 1:4
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
5  Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6  From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
7  Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.


Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
22  Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23  Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.


Isaiah 65:11
But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12  Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.


Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.



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Yadda said....

Quote:

We ourselves, are the 'gatekeepers' of our hearts. We choose which spirits we allow [invite] into our hearts. And nobody [and no spirit] can compel us, to join with them. And no spirit can compel us to do what is evil. No body compels us, to choose the evil. When we choose the evil, we ourselves choose it.

Psalms 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Repeat after me, the Lord moves in mysterious ways.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

A male deity who invented the universe sent Jesus to Earth and you are responsible for his crucifixion.

Got it? Good, now you can go back to the big game on TV.

You could probably write an entire book on nihilism (some already have). One point I'll make though is that relentless analysing and criticism of everything disenchants the world and can result in a depressive effect. This process began at least since the time of the Enlightenment. A select few can affirm this effect and turn it around, but the masses cannot; hence why they live a life of constant self-gratification - to numb the pain of nothingness.

Quote:

Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

You see that's the problem with religious fanatics. They maintain that unless you believe in God (their particular brand that is), then you believe in nothing. Those who believe in different brands are condemned to travel through Dante's inferno after death, because other brands of God are "evil". Maintaining brand loyalty at all costs is a central tenet of Christianity.

Exodus 20:30 - You shall have no other Gods before me.
Good brand loyalty.

Quote:

Brand loyalty is a result of consumer behavior and is affected by a person's preferences. Loyal customers will consistently purchase products from their preferred brands, regardless of convenience or price.

Thou shalt have no other Supermarket but Woolworths.
There is no supermarket but Aldi, and Christmas is the profit.



In reality, the belief in God stems from the amazing miracle of humanity. If you devalue the experience of life and the whole wonder of human existence to nil, then all you're left with is a death cult.  The empty promise of everlasting life after death.

It's a promise that stems from the Council of Nicea, which concealed the real message - that Hell is on Earth, and "life everlasting"  was never intended to mean life after death. It means here and now. It was just convenient to perpetrate this lie in order to control people.

It is generally preached that eternity is a state of being into which Christians enter upon physical death and that eternal life describes the life the believer receives from God, but nowhere in the scriptures is a Greek word meaning "eternal" used to describe the life God gives to a Christian.

Aionion, is the Greek word, which better translates to "of ages". simply describes how in accepting God, you accept the eternal nature of God into your life. "Eternal" life refers to life - the here and now, not something that follows.

Life is "aionion"  in the sense in that it has existed for as long as humanity can remember. It doesn't mean that individuals are immortal (athanatos). This is a Greek word that was commonly used, but never in Greek Christian Scripture.

I am not a nihilist. I love life and humanity.  What is closer to "nihilism"  is the act of dismissing life and looking to an imaginary existence after life as your only salvation.  So many people waste their lives thinking that way. 

LIfe is great. Don't waste it. Live it (sensibly).

Well said, John, you boozy old "Taverner." Religion in the God fearing sense, is a cop-out, among other things.

One could argue that the drive toward equality is nihilistic. What is this equality other than the Christian heaven attempted to be created on earth?

One of my favourites songs. I like lyrics with meaning behind them.


Quote:

Lily Allen - The Fear I want to be rich and I want lots of money I don't care about clever I don't care about funny I want loads of clothes and frickloads of diamonds I heard people die while they are trying to find them I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous I'll look at the sun and I'll look in the mirror I'm on the right track yeah I'm on to a winner [Chorus] I don't know what's right and what's real anymore I don't know how I'm meant to feel anymore When do you think it will all become clear And I'll be taken over by the fear Life's about film stars and less about mothers It's all about fast cars and cussing each other But it doesn't matter cause I'm packing plastic And that's what makes my life so frickin' fantastic And I am a weapon of massive consumption And its not my fault it's how I'm programmed to function I'll look at the sun and I'll look in the mirror I'm on the right track yeah I'm on to a winner [Chorus] Forget about guns and forget ammunition Cause I'm killing them all on my own little mission Now I'm not a saint but I'm not a sinner Now everything is cool as long as I'm getting thinner

It's more about hedonism, than nihilism, if you ask me... and even then, it's being critical of current societal trends, and the natural instincts of humans (the human condition).

And it's not only the dirty atheists that indulge in these "meaningless" behaviours ;D

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:30pm:

One could argue that the drive toward equality is nihilistic. What is this equality other than the Christian heaven attempted to be created on earth?

Wat? :D

Wouldn't attempting to create a "heaven on earth" be a good thing anyway?

boxy,

Thanks for the lyrics quote.....



Quote:

Lily Allen - The Fear ...... ...... I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous I'll look at the sun and I'll look in the mirror I'm on the right track yeah I'm on to a winner [Chorus] I don't know what's right and what's real anymore I don't know how I'm meant to feel anymore When do you think it will all become clear And I'll be taken over by the fear ...... ......

Dictionary;
nihilism = =
1 the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
2 extreme scepticism, maintaining that nothing has a real existence.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:30pm:

One could argue that the drive toward equality is nihilistic. What is this equality other than the Christian heaven attempted to be created on earth?

Mankind's separation from [i.e. and rejection of] the spirit of God, means that any effort on the part of mankind, towards seeking virtue, will be doomed to failure [imo].

Just look at the history of mankind.

It is a history of sanctioned ['justified'] warfare and cruelty, towards the 'other'.



The record of human history, has proven that humanity doesn't know how to avoid its own corruption [of being].

There has never been a human created utopia.

There will never be a human created utopia.

It is impossible, for any human to bring about such a state of human peace and well-being [for all of his fellows].

No ?????

Yadda wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:32pm:

boxy, Thanks for the lyrics quote..... Quote: Lily Allen - The Fear ...... ...... I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous I'll look at the sun and I'll look in the mirror I'm on the right track yeah I'm on to a winner [Chorus] I don't know what's right and what's real anymore I don't know how I'm meant to feel anymore When do you think it will all become clear And I'll be taken over by the fear ...... ...... Dictionary; nihilism = = 1 the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. 2 extreme scepticism, maintaining that nothing has a real existence.

Yes, Yadda, thoughtful atheists do struggle to find meaning in their lives. In the same way that honest and intelligent theists do.

At least we admit that the meaning we find is of our own making... you guys have to invent some imaginary sky fairy to tell you it's all going to be alright.

You still don't seem to be getting the concept, that Lily is singing about the struggle to find meaning in a modern world, and you know what, I'm pretty sure she has. Seems like a very intelligent, thoughtful, and morally aware woman, to me. In a much better position than most of the rest of us, who don't generally contemplate the big questions unless forced to.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:30pm:

One could argue that the drive toward equality is nihilistic. What is this equality other than the Christian heaven attempted to be created on earth?

Oh, give me a friggin' break!

boxy wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Yes, Yadda, thoughtful atheists do struggle to find meaning in their lives. In the same way that honest and intelligent theists do. At least we admit that the meaning we find is of our own making... you guys have to invent some imaginary sky fairy to tell you it's all going to be alright.

That is correct boxy.

That is the attitude, to perception, to have!

/sarc off


Because you have never experienced a [particular] knowledge,      ...well, that certainly means that you can never know that knowledge, ever.

Because you stand on a beach, and because you see, with your own eyes,     .....that the ocean before you, just goes on and on, 'forever and ever',       .....then there cannot be a land beyond the horizon YOUR horizon.



boxy,

You atheists [clearly] live within a very, very small universe.

:)




"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Shakespeare


Except a creator.

A creator cannot exist.

Coz, atheists have never seen him.

So that, is proof!!!

It's scientific too!

:)

But what do you think Yadda

Yadda wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:40pm:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare Except a creator. A creator cannot exist. Coz, atheists have never seen him. So that, is proof!!! It's scientific too! :)

I wish that i was as clever, and as logical, as atheists are!

:)

You started the thread. Don't get all huffy now.

boxy wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:14pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 23rd, 2015 at 7:30pm: One could argue that the drive toward equality is nihilistic. What is this equality other than the Christian heaven attempted to be created on earth? Wat? :D Wouldn't attempting to create a "heaven on earth" be a good thing anyway?

No.

The leftist idealised equal society is an attempt to eradicate human judgment. One class, one race, one culture, one nation, one gender. What is that but nihilism?

You seem confused.

boxy wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:56pm:

You seem confused.

Yes. If being confused is a sniggering troll-like condition, then he's confused.

I think Sigmund Freud would have had something to say about his desire to be one homogenized gender though.

boxy wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:56pm:

You seem confused.

How so?

Yadda wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:40pm:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare Except a creator. A creator cannot exist. Coz, atheists have never seen him. So that, is proof!!! It's scientific too! :)

Quote:

God exists because Shakespeare said so, and I said so, and I read it in a book, and I believe it so much that I experience it as truth.

I used to think that way too, until I realised that I was deceiving myself and devaluing the experience of life. 

Yours is the stale God of withered old books and death. You are the one who believes that life is an illusion and that there is a promise of life after death.  That is nihilism.

There is no afterlife. It was an invention of the Council of Nicea. 

God is about the living. God is life. Your contribution to eternity is to live your share of it. Life is eternal from our perspective.

Your share of eternity is something very special. It exists in your lifespan, but if you do something really memorable, that will live on in the thoughts of others.

If you think that your interpretation of a book is absolute, consider those who follow that same book, but interpret it differently. (For example, Jehovah witnesses.)

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Quote: God exists because Shakespeare said so, and I said so, and I read it in a book, and I believe it so much that I experience it as truth. I used to think that way too, until I realised that I was deceiving myself and devaluing the experience of life.

That is your choice to make.



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John_Taverner wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Yours is the stale God of withered old books and death. You are the one who believes that life is an illusion and that there is a promise of life after death.  That is nihilism.

The Bible is a strange book.

If you read and study it, for some, it can 'conjure' up a living spirit, from within its pages.



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John_Taverner wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

There is no afterlife.

"So certain are you."          !!!!!!

:)



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John_Taverner wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

God is about the living. God is life.

No contest.



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John_Taverner wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Your contribution to eternity is to live your share of it. Life is eternal from our perspective. Your share of eternity is something very special. It exists in your lifespan, but if you do something really memorable, that will live on in the thoughts of others. If you think that your interpretation of a book is absolute, consider those who follow that same book, but interpret it differently. (For example, Jehovah witnesses.)

That is their choice to make.

I choose to read the Bible.

I have found it to be a very special 'book'.   I have found the concepts which it seeks to convey, to be very special, to man, and to myself.

I try to read it every day.

Why so ?



Yadda said, somewhere.....

Quote:

Reading scripture is a form of spiritual invocation [i believe]. And imo, the words and thoughts expressed within scripture, express [to me] the mind of our God. And, reading those words and thoughts, exposes me to that spirit, which i [choose, and] want to be influenced by. i.e. The spirit of God. It is that simple.

"The Bible will keep you from sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible."
Dwight L. Moody (American Evangelist, 1837-1899)




John_Taverner,

You seem to have no faith in (the existence of a) God.

[And there is nothing strange there, among mankind !! ]



Isaiah 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.



Whereas, i have faith in my God, and I have faith in my God's benevolence toward me.

And that is my experience.


My experience is that, you won't find the essence [or spirit] of God in the things of men, nor, in the things which pertain to this world.

Not even in the churches [which are a product] of this world, imo.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1435998745/0#0

Quote:

We have no power, to choose God. It is God who chooses us.

Job 33:14
For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
15  In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
16  Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
17  That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.
18  He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.


Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1227360886/6#6

Quote:

My God, as i perceive him, has created an environment, a circumstance, where we reveal ourselves. My God, as i perceive him, is just and merciful. We place too much emphasis on what God has 'done' [i.e. what he 'allows'], but we miss the obvious. This current world is what we [mankind] have created through our choices. Q. Does God allow this? A. Yes. [from my perspective] Q. Is God unjust to allow us to commit evil? A. Better to make our 'mistakes' here, than in the spirit world. We are all spiritual beings [i believe], and we come to this physical existence specifically [i believe], to exercise the 'power' of choice [given to each of us, by God],    ....in this physical existence. And in this life, by our choices, we have an 'opportunity' to demonstrate, that we understand the consequences of our choices. Choice is a mental power, a thought power, ....a spiritual power. Here, in this 'reality', here on this little planet, our choices have no form, until we express them, physically! We are 'going to school' here [i believe]. And [i believe that] we come here, to learn, and to come to understand the consequences of expressing our choices.