Ok Islam apologists,  step right up. Who'd like a crack at this one

Maiduguri, Nigeria: A survivor hidden in a tree says he watched Boko Haram extremists firebomb huts and heard the screams of children burning to death, among 86 people officials say died in the latest attack by Nigeria's homegrown Islamic extremists.
[ftp][/ftp]
http://m.smh.com.au/world/dozens-of-people-killed-in-boko-haram-massacre-in-nigeria-20160131-gmi9ro.html

Just to make it a little easy for them:

http://m.smh.com.au/world/dozens-of-people-killed-in-boko-haram-massacre-in-nigeria-20160131-gmi9ro.html

This comes on top of the 91 "Terrorist" attacks listed by Wikipedia for January. Almost all are associated directly with the religion of peace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_January%E2%80%93June_2016

I hereby announce my spineless apology for this massacre in the usual way - by condemning the atrocity as an act that is an affront to the teaching of Islam, and by also condemning boko haram as a group that doesn't represent Islam.

Unfortunately, due to my spinelessness I am unwilling to do a "proper" condemnation by insisting that this is what Muhammad did and taught, and that only a complete rejection of Muhammad's teachings and the Quran can this issue be adequately addressed.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:00am:

I hereby announce my spineless apology for this massacre in the usual way - by condemning the atrocity as an act that is an affront to the teaching of Islam, and by also condemning boko haram as a group that doesn't represent Islam. Unfortunately, due to my spinelessness I am unwilling to do a "proper" condemnation by insisting that this is what Muhammad did and taught, and that only a complete rejection of Muhammad's teachings and the Quran can this issue be adequately addressed.

I like the way these groups tell us over and over again what they want any who they represent and we stick our fingers in our ears and say lalalalala can't hear you.

I do understand why our leaders stay on message tho, they can't exactly go around telling the truth :)

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:00am:

I hereby announce my spineless apology for this massacre in the usual way - by condemning the atrocity as an act that is an affront to the teaching of Islam, and by also condemning boko haram as a group that doesn't represent Islam.

I agree, G, and I hereby announce my own apology for the various US and Israeli firebombings of women and children in the past few years, including the invasion of Panama, the attacks on Gaza and Lebanon, and on and on - all attacks targeting and killing civilians using firebombing.

I would never do this to distract from the crimes of a group like Boko Haram but to compare and contrast with the real villains. In Panama, the death toll was in the thousands, all civilians burned to death in the slums of Panama City. The US wouldn't even let the Red Cross in.

As bad as they are, Boko Haram doesn't even compare in its scope and cynicism. They do it because of warped ideas. The US does it for the dollars.

Put me down as a devout spineless apologist traitor.

Kill me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:00am:

I hereby announce my spineless apology for this massacre in the usual way - by condemning the atrocity as an act that is an affront to the teaching of Islam, and by also condemning boko haram as a group that doesn't represent Islam. Unfortunately, due to my spinelessness I am unwilling to do a "proper" condemnation by insisting that this is what Muhammad did and taught, and that only a complete rejection of Muhammad's teachings and the Quran can this issue be adequately addressed.

Another piece of self-justification. Since when were you the big authority on Islam anyway.

issuevoter wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 1:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1st, 2016 at 11:00am: I hereby announce my spineless apology for this massacre in the usual way - by condemning the atrocity as an act that is an affront to the teaching of Islam, and by also condemning boko haram as a group that doesn't represent Islam. Unfortunately, due to my spinelessness I am unwilling to do a "proper" condemnation by insisting that this is what Muhammad did and taught, and that only a complete rejection of Muhammad's teachings and the Quran can this issue be adequately addressed. Another piece of self-justification. Since when were you the big authority on Islam anyway.

Since he started calling for the execution of gays doing it Mardi Gras style. This makes G the biggest authority on the board.

After Yadda, of course.

Where is freediver when his lust for invasion of a soverign Country can be sated.  Perhaps he does not care about black people being killed by arseholes.

Quote from the Movie "sahara"


http://i.imgur.com/Bh5CcP7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/82BlEOD.jpg

Islam has the land now.

wally1 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 2:02pm:

http://i.imgur.com/82BlEOD.jpg

Interesting.  I thought that was Desmond Tutu original.

Link.

Africa is almost 50% Christian land

Considering that white people only live in parts of South Africa it pretty much means blackies own the rest. In fact Africa is 99% monoracial. So white people own bugger all.

N
Aussie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 2:15pm:

wally1 wrote on Feb 1st, 2016 at 2:02pm: http://i.imgur.com/82BlEOD.jpg Interesting.  I thought that was Desmond Tutu original. Link.

Yeah interesting,which one is lying?

In fact more black people live in white countries than white people in black countries.

islam can never exist without unspeakable human rights atrocities being committed.

muhammad was decadent human filth, islam is a mirror reflection of his persona. (he is the best of all examples)


In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr [pre-dawn] and the 'Isha' [evening] prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama [second call to prayer] and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."


Volume 1, Book 11, Number 617:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle said,“By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan [summons] for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the ‘Isha’ prayer.’[fifth of the five daily prayers]

So burning people alive is part and parcel of islam always has been, always will be.

moses wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 2:38pm:

islam can never exist without unspeakable human rights atrocities being committed. muhammad was decadent human filth, islam is a mirror reflection of his persona. (he is the best of all examples) In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection: Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr [pre-dawn] and the 'Isha' [evening] prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama [second call to prayer] and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." Volume 1, Book 11, Number 617: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said,“By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan [summons] for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the ‘Isha’ prayer.’[fifth of the five daily prayers] So burning people alive is part and parcel of islam always has been, always will be.

Prophet Mohamed never burned anyone, stop talking crap, you dont even understand the meaning of the saying, who are you to comment what it means?

double plus good wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 2:18pm:

Considering that white people only live in parts of South Africa it pretty much means blackies own the rest. In fact Africa is 99% monoracial. So white people own bugger all.

Here's the Homo criteria for a place - how many whites buy in.

Well, Homo, you'll be pleased to know, white investment in Africa is absolute. The blackies would be lucky to own 10% of it.

20 more killed today in Kabul today; at least 29 injured. Taliban suicide bomber hopped up on the religion of peace. Ali Akbah!

issuevoter wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:51am:

20 more killed today in Kabul today; at least 29 injured. Taliban suicide bomber hopped up on the religion of peace. Ali Akbah!

How many whites invest in Afghanistan, Issue?

Not counting the Chinese.

wally1 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 2:44pm:

moses wrote on Feb 1st, 2016 at 2:38pm: islam can never exist without unspeakable human rights atrocities being committed. muhammad was decadent human filth, islam is a mirror reflection of his persona. (he is the best of all examples) In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection: Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr [pre-dawn] and the 'Isha' [evening] prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama [second call to prayer] and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." Volume 1, Book 11, Number 617: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said,“By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan [summons] for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the ‘Isha’ prayer.’[fifth of the five daily prayers] So burning people alive is part and parcel of islam always has been, always will be. Prophet Mohamed never burned anyone, stop talking crap, you dont even understand the meaning of the saying, who are you to comment what it means?

Except of course for the Jew who refused to give up his Jew gold. Muhammed and his merry band of monsters tortured him by lighting a fire on his stomach.

Are you familiar with that hadith Wally?

freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 12:30pm:

wally1 wrote on Feb 1st, 2016 at 2:44pm: moses wrote on Feb 1st, 2016 at 2:38pm: islam can never exist without unspeakable human rights atrocities being committed. muhammad was decadent human filth, islam is a mirror reflection of his persona. (he is the best of all examples) In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection: Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr [pre-dawn] and the 'Isha' [evening] prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama [second call to prayer] and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." Volume 1, Book 11, Number 617: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said,“By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan [summons] for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the ‘Isha’ prayer.’[fifth of the five daily prayers] So burning people alive is part and parcel of islam always has been, always will be. Prophet Mohamed never burned anyone, stop talking crap, you dont even understand the meaning of the saying, who are you to comment what it means? Except of course for the Jew who refused to give up his Jew gold. Muhammed and his merry band of monsters tortured him by lighting a fire on his stomach.

Thanks, FD. I've been waiting weeks for that one.

What took you so long?

For once FD can't resort to the "oh but a muslim told me about that one" defense. There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale.

...hmmm but then again, this is FD here - all he has to do is throw the question at a muslim, and whatever the response - including no response at all is as good as confirming the story. Just like saying 'gays shouldn't be killed for being gay' magically becomes 'gays should be killed for flaunting their sexuality mardis gras style'.

Quote:

There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale.

So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts?

freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts?

Cunning, no? Google: taqiyya.

And when you’ve done that, Google Uncle brings democracy to Iraq.

FD should have his answer up in no time, no time at all.

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:29pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:06pm: Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts? Cunning, no? Google: taqiyya.

Exactly.

The promise of booty and pussy has done wonders for Mohammed's delusions.

It makes sense to barbarians in a way 'do good because it's right' means nothing to them. Look at the societies they have created - all plunder, exploitation, tribal and clannish warfare over booty and pussy.  That's what Islam promises and that's all it delivers. It appeals to the belly and the groin.

Soren wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 9:33pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:29pm: freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:06pm: Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts? Cunning, no? Google: taqiyya.  Exactly. The promise of booty and pussy has done wonders for Mohammed's delusions. It makes sense to barbarians in a way 'do good because it's right' means nothing to them. Look at the societies they have created - all plunder, exploitation, tribal and clannish warfare over booty and pussy.  That's what Islam promises and that's all it delivers. It appeals to the belly and the groin.

You forgot to mention the buggering of boys which is accepted as normal in several Middle Eastern countries.

issuevoter wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 7:55am:

You forgot to mention the buggering of boys which is accepted as normal in several Middle Eastern countries.

seems to be accepted by the Australian govt. too!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-02/doctors-fears-alleged-nauru-5yo-rape-victim-considered-dutton/7135054

freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts?

You're confused FD - this was not from any hadith.

But do tell me, did you hear the story from
a) a muslim
b) a non-muslim (like jihadwatch)?

Is the one time you are going to abandon your long held motto to only judge Islam by what muslims themselves say about it?

Soren wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 9:33pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:29pm: freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:06pm: Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts? Cunning, no? Google: taqiyya.  Exactly. The promise of booty and pussy has done wonders for Mohammed's delusions. It makes sense to barbarians in a way 'do good because it's right' means nothing to them. Look at the societies they have created - all plunder, exploitation, tribal and clannish warfare over booty and pussy.  That's what Islam promises and that's all it delivers. It appeals to the belly and the groin.

Brought to you by the same person who thinks its morally right to "oppress the bastards" whose actions conflict with the west's interests.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 1:07pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:33pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:29pm: freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:06pm: Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts? Cunning, no? Google: taqiyya.  Exactly. The promise of booty and pussy has done wonders for Mohammed's delusions. It makes sense to barbarians in a way 'do good because it's right' means nothing to them. Look at the societies they have created - all plunder, exploitation, tribal and clannish warfare over booty and pussy.  That's what Islam promises and that's all it delivers. It appeals to the belly and the groin. Brought to you by the same person who thinks its morally right to "oppress the bastards" whose actions conflict with the west's interests.

Conflict with the West's interests?

Ee-gad, no. The old boy wants to oppress Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, both key allies of Uncle's. The Pakis are such good friends, they let Uncle in to bomb everyone with drones.

And the Saudis are such good friends they pay Uncle to build their oil wells, skyscrapers, roads, bridges, shopping malls and palatial desert mansions.

Uncle's a bit cranky at them at the moment because they're undercutting his friends' oil prices. BP just announced they're in the red for about 5 billion. Uncle's new friends the Iranians aren't too happy either. Uncle's finally letting them sell their oil for US dollars.

Still, they'll make up. They always do. Al Qaida, Jihadi terrorist cells, Paki military training camps, all those blank cheques to ISIS - Uncle forgives the Saudis for all of it. Indeed, Uncle even assists them to get away with it.

If the old boy thinks they conflict with the West's interests, he must think Uncle does too.

Confusing, no?

John Smith wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 8:06am:

issuevoter wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 7:55am: You forgot to mention the buggering of boys which is accepted as normal in several Middle Eastern countries. seems to be accepted by the Australian govt. too! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-02/doctors-fears-alleged-nauru-5yo-rape-victim-considered-dutton/7135054

His alleged attacker is , yes, you guessed it, a fellow asylum seeker. You just kicked an own goal you twit.

ian wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 2:13pm:

You just kicked an own goal

umm... no.

Concentrate on what he actually wrote next time.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 1:02pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:06pm: Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts? You're confused FD - this was not from any hadith. But do tell me, did you hear the story from a) a muslim b) a non-muslim (like jihadwatch)? Is the one time you are going to abandon your long held motto to only judge Islam by what muslims themselves say about it?

Gandalf do you still insist that not a single Muslim would believe this?

Why do you think wikipedia describes it as a hadith?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenana_ibn_al-Rabi

In hadith studies, ibn Isḥaq's hadith (considered separately from his prophetic biography) is generally thought to be "good" (ḥasan) (assuming an accurate and trustworthy isnad, or chain of transmission)[6] and himself having a reputation of being "sincere" or "trustworthy" (ṣadūq).

Ibn Ishaq writes about Kenana ibn al-Rabi,[2]

Kenana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought"), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kenana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kenana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" He said "Yes". The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has." So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud

In addition to Ibn Ishaq's narration Al-Talabari writes:

The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him. -- Al-Tabari, Vol. 8, p. 122

FD could be an Imam by now.

If only the authorities would accept students of Wikipedia, so unfair.

The reference you give is from Ibn Ishaq's biography - as the footnote states.

Did you first hear the story from a non-muslim FD? Have you met any muslims who believe this story? I feel its important as you used to be very big on judging Islam by what muslims themselves say.

I do not recall when or from whom I first heard it Gandalf. There is a good chance it is in the wiki if you want to check. But if you are going to speak on behalf of all Muslims, why restrict it to the ones I have spoken with?

muslims are told in the qur'an they are to be judge, jury and executioner of all hypocrites, non believers, apostates etc.etc.

In fact these killers are the highest grade of muslim there is according to the qur'an.

With regards to the the musim depravity of burning people alive, the following source tells us

But doesn’t Islam prohibit burning people alive? To answer this question, we need to first look at Muhammad, who spoke for Allah (4:80) and is considered the standard of perfect conduct for Muslims (33:21). Muhammad had no qualms about burning people.

In December 627 Muhammad led an attack against the Al-Mustalaq tribe. Because that tribe fought back, Muhammad ordered their fortifications to be set on fire, even though the Muslims knew there were women and children inside.

Around June 628, when Kinanah bin al-Rabi of the Jewish Bani al-Nadir tribe would not reveal where his conquered tribe’s treasures were hidden, Muhammad ordered one of his soldiers, “Torture him until you extract what he has,” so a fire was built on Kinanah’s chest.

In October 630 there was some resistance among the Muslims (Hypocrites) toward a military expedition Muhammad was planning against the Byzantines at Tabuk. Muhammad heard that these Hypocrites were gathered in a particular house, so he ordered that the house be burned down on top of them. The Hypocrites managed to escape from the flames.

In June 632, after Muhammad’s death, an attack on Ubna that he had earlier ordered took place. The leader of the Muslim force said,

… the Messenger of God commanded me and this was his last command to me: …to raid them, without inviting them [to Islam], and to destroy and burn them.

(The Life of Muhammad: Al-Waqidi’s Kitab al-Maghazi, p. 549)

And Muhammad even considered burning down Muslims’ houses around them to compel their attendance at congregational prayers:

It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
“The Messenger of Allah said: ‘I was thinking of commanding that the call to prayer be given, then I would tell a man to lead the people in prayer, then I would go out with some other men carrying bundles of wood, and go to people who do not attend the prayer, and burn their houses down around them.'”
(Sunan Ibn Majah, No. 791)

So Muhammad’s statements and actions show that during his lifetime it was permissible for Muslims to burn people alive. This was continued after Muhammad’s death.

After Muhammad died there were many Arab tribes that left Islam. This resulted in the Wars of Apostasy (Riddah Wars) under Abu Bakr, the first of the four “Rightly Guided” Caliphs (so named because they are believed to have held the most firmly to the teachings of Muhammad). The commander of each army that Abu Bakr sent out had a letter to be read to the tribe before it was attacked. The letter explained that if the tribe did not return to Islam, the army commander will not spare any one of them he can gain mastery over, [but may] burn them with fire, slaughter them by any means…

(The History of al-Tabari: The Conquest of Arabia, p. 57)

Abu Bakr even set the example when a captive who had fought against the Muslims was brought to him. Abu Bakr ... ordered a fire to be kindled with much firewood in the prayer yard (musalla) of Medina and threw him, with arms and legs bound, into it.

(The History of al-Tabari: The Conquest of Arabia, p. 80)

The commander of one of the Muslim armies was Khalid bin al-Walid. Here is a command that Abu Bakr gave to Khalid: …kill them by every means, by fire or whatever else.

(The History of al-Tabari: The Conquest of Arabia, p. 100)

And Abu Bakr gave Khalid a specific command when he sent him against the Bani Hanifah in Al-Yamamah:

Kill their wounded, seek out those of them who flee, put the captives among them to the sword and strike terror among them by killing and burn them by fire. And I warn you against contradicting my orders. Peace (be upon you).

(Abridged Biography of Prophet Muhammad, p. 345)

Khalid took Abu Bakr’s admonitions to heart and was known for burning many captives alive. Abu Bakr’s response was, I shall not sheathe a sword that Allah had unsheathed against the ‘unbelievers.’

(The Origins of the Islamic State, p. 148)

The burning continued, as Ali, the fourth “Rightly Guided” Caliph (656-661), ordered people to be burned alive for being hypocrites.

So we can see that the burning-to-death of the captured pilot can be fully supported by Islamic doctrine, and it even falls under Allah’s admonition found in 8:57 of the Koran:

So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson.

Buring people alive can be squarely laid at the feet of the psychopathic maniac muhammad.

muslims torture / burn people alive today, because muhammad did it, he spoke for allah and he is the perfect example for mankind.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 2:35pm:

ian wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 2:13pm: You just kicked an own goal umm... no. Concentrate on what he actually wrote next time.

You mean ignore the facts. I dont think so.

Leviticus tells its followers to burn their wives alive for adultery, Moses. Sorcery is also a burning offence.This was Jewish law. Can you find a similar law in any of the Muslim texts?

Your examples consist entirely of Muslim warlords. I can find thousands of historic Christian examples of this. We are, after all, talking about a very Common Catholic method of execution.

I’m curious. Using your logic, do you conclude that the Jews and Christians were more cruel than Muslims?

Karnal wrote:

Quote:

Leviticus tells its followers to burn their wives alive for adultery, Moses. Sorcery is also a burning offence.This was Jewish law. Can you find a similar law in any of the Muslim texts? Your examples consist entirely of Muslim warlords. I can find thousands of historic Christian examples of this. We are, after all, talking about a very Common Catholic method of execution. I’m curious. Using your logic, do you conclude that the Jews and Christians were more cruel than Muslims?

So to justify the present day muslim torture and burning people alive, you quote the three thousand four hundred and sixteen year old Judaic law which was fulfilled and superseded by Christ Himself 2016 years ago. (Luke 16:16  Mat 5:17 Rom 3:20  Rom 3:28  Gal 3:11).

So it is / has not been part of Christian doctrine or practice for 2016 years..

Did many people practice it in disobedience to the doctrine of the N.T.? Yes they did.

Are they still doing it today?

No they are not.

Now with regards to the muslims

muhammad tortured people by burning them alive, while preaching and instituting islam.

muhammad told people he spoke for allah and he was the best of all examples, therefore if muhammad condoned and used burning of people as a legitimate torture method, it is quiet understandable that many muslims would regard it as an obligatory islamic practice, much akin to a sunnah of the prophet today 21st century.

Was burning of people practiced by muhammad in establishing islam?

Yes it was.

Was it condoned by allah?

Yes it was, muhammad spoke for allah, muhammad is / was the best of all examples.

Is burning of people still practiced by muslims today 2016?

Yes it is.

So who are the most degenerate and evil people on the earth, today right here, right now?

muslims by a country mile.

Quote:

In December 627 Muhammad led an attack against the Al-Mustalaq tribe. Because that tribe fought back, Muhammad ordered their fortifications to be set on fire, even though the Muslims knew there were women and children inside.

Sounds like 9/11.

moses wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 5:59pm:

Karnal wrote: Quote: Leviticus tells its followers to burn their wives alive for adultery, Moses. Sorcery is also a burning offence.This was Jewish law. Can you find a similar law in any of the Muslim texts? Your examples consist entirely of Muslim warlords. I can find thousands of historic Christian examples of this. We are, after all, talking about a very Common Catholic method of execution. I’m curious. Using your logic, do you conclude that the Jews and Christians were more cruel than Muslims? So to justify the present day muslim torture and burning people alive, you quote the three thousand four hundred and sixteen year old Judaic law which was fulfilled and superseded by Christ Himself 2016 years ago. (Luke 16:16  Mat 5:17 Rom 3:20  Rom 3:28  Gal 3:11). So it is / has not been part of Christian doctrine or practice for 2016 years.. Did many people practice it in disobedience to the doctrine of the N.T.? Yes they did. Are they still doing it today? No they are not. Now with regards to the muslims muhammad tortured people by burning them alive, while preaching and instituting islam. muhammad told people he spoke for allah and he was the best of all examples, therefore if muhammad condoned and used burning of people as a legitimate torture method, it is quiet understandable that many muslims would regard it as an obligatory islamic practice, much akin to a sunnah of the prophet today 21st century. Was burning of people practiced by muhammad in establishing islam? Yes it was. Was it condoned by allah? Yes it was, muhammad spoke for allah, muhammad is / was the best of all examples. Is burning of people still practiced by muslims today 2016? Yes it is. So who are the most degenerate and evil people on the earth, today right here, right now? muslims by a country mile.

You’re answering your own questions, Moses. FD would not be impressed.

As you know, the Jews have not overturned Jewish.law. Nor did Mark, Matthew, or any other Jewish disciple.

These are the laws of Jeh_va. How could any man rescind them?

They stand today. They stood during the Inquisition, the Crusades, and during Roman Christendom.

If you disagree with this, you stand against the very laws of G_d. The penalty for this, as we all know, is eternity in hell.

Remember, if thy right hand offendeth, cut it off. It is far better to lose a hand than life everlasteth.

freediver wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 6:56pm:

Quote: In December 627 Muhammad led an attack against the Al-Mustalaq tribe. Because that tribe fought back, Muhammad ordered their fortifications to be set on fire, even though the Muslims knew there were women and children inside. Sounds like 9/11.

A lot of Islamic history does.

freediver wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

I do not recall when or from whom I first heard it Gandalf.

Strange - thats never stopped you from just making something up before.

karnal wrote:Reply #44 - Yesterday at 8:39pm:
Quote:

As you know, the Jews have not overturned Jewish.law. Nor did Mark, Matthew, or any other Jewish disciple. These are the laws of Jeh_va. How could any man rescind them?

I don't know what the Jewish position is (today 2016) regarding the ancient Judaic law (3416 years ago).

I assume they are now superseded by present day Jewish doctrine. (I make this assumption on the fact that the Jews are no longer practicing or preaching them, they appear to be a very modern progressive people)

Now to get onto the Christian position on the ancient Judaic law:
Christ said two very important things:

1/. Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Very clearly stated that the law was until the time of John.

2/. Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Fulfill means: (1)to complete successfully, (2) to bring to a finish or completion

Consequently if the O.T. Law has been successfully brought to a conclusion, it is finished, not applicable to Christians since the time of Christ.

So we still are at the point where Judaic law was rescinded by Christ, it has not been applicable for 2016 years.

The Jews (as far as I know) no longer practice the ancient barbarities of the Judaic law.

While your friends the muslims practice burning people alive today 2016, they always have practiced it, as it was instituted by muhammad himself, while spreading islam, in his roles of speaking for allah, being the best example for mankind to follow.

muslims are the most degenerate of people on this earth today, (right here, right now), they practice unutterably depraved atrocities against their fellow man with the clearset of conscience, they know allah, muhammad, qur'an and islam gives them divine sanction to perpetrate the foulest of barbarities against mankind.

moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 1:43pm:

karnal wrote:Reply #44 - Yesterday at 8:39pm: Quote: As you know, the Jews have not overturned Jewish.law. Nor did Mark, Matthew, or any other Jewish disciple. These are the laws of Jeh_va. How could any man rescind them? I don't know what the Jewish position is (today 2016) regarding the ancient Judaic law (3416 years ago).

Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)?

Quote:

Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)?

The Pew Society has done a survey on that. It will make you disappointed in humanity. It is the only time I have ever seen Gandalf insist Muslims do not actually mean what they say.

Taqiyya, innit.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:22pm:

Quote: Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)? The Pew Society has done a survey on that. It will make you disappointed in humanity. It is the only time I have ever seen Gandalf insist Muslims do not actually mean what they say. Taqiyya, innit.

Yes, I've read that, FD. It generally says the opposite of what you claim about Muslims.

Of course, the Pew survey was research into Muslims' attitudes. We're talking about religious law.

Do you know if it's changed in 1300-odd years?

Quote:

Yes, I've read that, FD. It generally says the opposite of what you claim about Muslims.

Feel free to be specific.


Quote:

Of course, the Pew survey was research into Muslims' attitudes. We're talking about religious law.

It was largely a survey on Muslims attitudes to religious law.


Quote:

Do you know if it's changed in 1300-odd years?

Apparently Muslims no longer believe that Muhammed tortured that jewish guy to make him reveal the location of the Jew gold. But that was never a low, just one of the many nasty things Muhammed got up to.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:36pm:

[quote]Apparently Muslims no longer believe that Muhammed tortured that jewish guy to make him reveal the location of the Jew gold. But that was never a low, just one of the many nasty things Muhammed got up to.

Good to see you being specific, FD. Seeing as you're in the mood, how did Uncle establish democracy in Iraq?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 1:02pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 7:06pm: Quote: There wouldn't be a single muslim who would believe that fairy tale. So for 1400 years Muslims have passed down what they know to be a lie about Muhammed in their religious texts? You're confused FD - this was not from any hadith. But do tell me, did you hear the story from a) a muslim b) a non-muslim (like jihadwatch)?

It came from Sirat Rasul allah by Ibn Ishaq it's in the chapter Khaybar.

Muhammad ordered the torture of a jew Kinana so he would reveal where their wealth was hidden, they lit a fire on his chest then chopped his head off.
Kinana was married to Safiyya they say she was hot, Muhammad married her on the very same day he had her husband tortured and killed, muslims will say Muhammad was a kind man who married widows.

Download a pdf anywhere here-
google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sirat+rasul+allah+pdf

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:22pm:

Quote: Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)? The Pew Society has done a survey on that. It will make you disappointed in humanity. It is the only time I have ever seen Gandalf insist Muslims do not actually mean what they say. Taqiyya, innit.

Ah yes, that would be the one that showed a majority of muslims worldwide rejecting certain unpalatable laws - namely stoning for adultery and execution for apostasy - but which you cherry picked Malaysia to misleadingly suggest the opposite.

I do not recall seeing the total global results, or discussing them with you or anyone else here. As I recall you were pre-occupied with trying to explain away the Malaysian results. These were particularly ironic given that you and Brian had been using Malaysia as an example of progressive Islam. Would you believe the refrained from removing Brian's head while he was there?

I suppose it counts as progress if Muslims are giving up the most barbaric aspects of Islamic law like stoning people to death. Welcome to the 21st century.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

I do not recall seeing the total global results, .

Ah.

;D

FD: while cherry picking the results from the guilty muslim nations, I didn't actually notice that overall most muslims worldwide reject those laws.

Oh you don't say FD  ;D ;D

Did you post them Gandalf?

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:09pm:

Did you post them Gandalf?

He most certainly did. We had a number of discussions about them. You were involved, you just stayed quiet on all talk of Central Asia, Turkey, the former Soviet Bloc, etc.

For some reason, you only wanted to talk about Malaysia.

Quote:

You were involved, you just stayed quiet on all talk of Central Asia, Turkey, the former Soviet Bloc, etc.

Do you think this is what Gandalf meant by "the majority of Muslims worldwide"?

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:39pm:

Quote: You were involved, you just stayed quiet on all talk of Central Asia, Turkey, the former Soviet Bloc, etc. Do you think this is what Gandalf meant by "the majority of Muslims worldwide"?

I do. Don’t you remember? You were the one who posted the Pew Survey. It’s in your Wiki.

Haven’t you read it yet?

Perhaps you should quote an example.

Karnal wrote Reply #48 - Yesterday at 3:19pm :
Quote:

Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)?

Isn't it obligatory to not deviate from what muhammad did and said?

Didn't muhammad speak for allah?

Isn't muhammad the best of all examples for mankind.

So in the case of burning people alive, raping (legal child mariage) and killing little girls who die from early child birth, killing infidels and a host of other depraved islamic atrocities, I'd say they are following the deformed maniacs laws to the very letter.

moses wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:06pm:

Karnal wrote Reply #48 - Yesterday at 3:19pm : Quote: Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)? Isn't it obligatory to not deviate from what muhammad did and said? Didn't muhammad speak for allah? Isn't muhammad the best of all examples for mankind. So in the case of burning people alive, raping (legal child mariage) and killing little girls who die from early child birth, killing infidels and a host of other depraved islamic atrocities, I'd say they are following the deformed maniacs laws to the very letter.

Are they now? There are three countries in the world that have Sharia law in full - Saudi Arabia, Iran, and now, Yemen. We could add ISIS, but that’s hardly a sovereign state.

Every other Muslim country criminalises all the things you’ve mentioned. The stonings, the amputations, the beheadings - these are all part of the Saudi fundamentalist move to take the Middle East back to the stone age. The US backs the Saudis in full. The US has always propped up regimes who practice tough love.

Unfortunately, the Saudi strain of fundamentalism is leaking out. Now, of course, Uncle can’t contain it.

Interestingly, this was just the sort of argument the Romans used against Judeans. They were backward, tribal rebels who worshipped a despotic god and stoned each other to death.

The Romans fixed them, right?

Atrocities that can be attributed to lslamic fundamentalism will remain in the muslim psyche till the truth is told by all people.

This truth will destroy islam,as the muslim and their apologists full well know, that is why they will do anything to avoid honesty.

muslims have nothing to fall back on: islam, allah, and the qur'an are the mirror image of the persona of a deformed blood crazed liar, pedophile, rapist, thief, torturer and mass murderer. (hence islam is what it is right now) a threat and burden to all decent civilized people on this globe.

The Judaeo Christian culture has a base of some 48 prophets, 7 prophetesses, a N.T. with deacons, apostles, preachers etc. all proclaiming the Messiah, the finalization of the barbaric Mosaic laws into a new era for mankind. It has an across-the-board message, it is the antithesis of islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an.

That is why they are light years ahead of muslims who are trapped by their own stupidity and 7th century heinousness.

Untill muslims and their apologists tell the truth, nothing will change, in fact it'll probanly get much worse yet.

Yes, Moses, I imagine it will get much worse. You’re calling for a religious war to end all wars.

When peace-loving Christians get involved, things tend to get a little heated, no?

A religious war?

Do you mean between apostate / lasped / muslims who would tell the truth about the depravity of islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an, and those brain dead islamic zombies who are in a religious trance, utterly unable to reason or use logic, when it comes to islam?


How would Christians get involved, other than to give aid to those who have finally shown the guts to tell the truth?

It always has been / will be, a muslim problem. (except now we have the added addition of apologists fanning the flames of hatred.)
      

Karnal wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:51pm:

moses wrote on Feb 7th, 2016 at 5:06pm: Karnal wrote Reply #48 - Yesterday at 3:19pm : Quote: Ah. Do you know what the Muslim position is today regarding the ancient Muselman law (1300 years ago)? Isn't it obligatory to not deviate from what muhammad did and said? Didn't muhammad speak for allah? Isn't muhammad the best of all examples for mankind. So in the case of burning people alive, raping (legal child mariage) and killing little girls who die from early child birth, killing infidels and a host of other depraved islamic atrocities, I'd say they are following the deformed maniacs laws to the very letter. Are they now? There are three countries in the world that have Sharia law in full - Saudi Arabia, Iran, and now, Yemen. We could add ISIS, but that’s hardly a sovereign state. Every other Muslim country criminalises all the things you’ve mentioned. The stonings, the amputations, the beheadings - these are all part of the Saudi fundamentalist move to take the Middle East back to the stone age. The US backs the Saudis in full. The US has always propped up regimes who practice tough love. Unfortunately, the Saudi strain of fundamentalism is leaking out. Now, of course, Uncle can’t contain it. Interestingly, this was just the sort of argument the Romans used against Judeans. They were backward, tribal rebels who worshipped a despotic god and stoned each other to death. The Romans fixed them, right?

Even Islam is America's fault, and Karnal has the global Pew survey results to back it up.