With increasing scepticism one asks how many of the so-called 'moderate majority' of Muslims are in fact traitors to Western societies for barracking for the terrorists.

"When a classroom heard news of the horrific Brussels terrorist attack, the teacher immediately noticed something his Muslim students were doing that made his stomach churn. However, just four hours after he tweeted out what the teens were doing, he received a knock on his door.

Ivar Mol is a Dutch teacher who prides himself on instilling knowledge into his students, regardless of their background. However, soon after the recent attack on a Belgium airport and Metro, he noticed there is something particularly unique about his Muslim students.

While civilians were being slaughtered in Brussels, the Dutch teacher witnessed his Muslim students openly applauding and celebrating the carnage. In front of the entire class, the Islamic children laughed and praised the terrorist attack, as the rest of the non-Muslim students simply looked on in horror.

Mol quickly tweeted what was going on, asking, “How do you still teach when Muslim children in your class are applauding the attack?”

link

Immediate deportation for the entire extended families of these Muslim students is what commonsense would dictate.

In all likelihood, Europe's future is going to be a slow-motion-train-wreck.

It will happen here too.

That is my opinion, for what it is worth.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1456614488/2#2



more......

http://madworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/e72458a73ce55de39752ea2b79934ba0-620x464.jpg

German math teacher Mehdi Hushmand found out the hard way that the refugee crisis isn’t what the left claims it to be.



Liberal Teacher Takes In Muslim Refugee, His Colleague Finds What’s Left Of Him
Posted on March 24, 2016
http://madworldnews.com/liberal-teacher-muslim-refugee/

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

With increasing scepticism one asks how many of the so-called 'moderate majority' of Muslims are in fact traitors to Western societies for barracking for the terrorists. "When a classroom heard news of the horrific Brussels terrorist attack, the teacher immediately noticed something his Muslim students were doing that made his stomach churn. However, just four hours after he tweeted out what the teens were doing, he received a knock on his door. Ivar Mol is a Dutch teacher who prides himself on instilling knowledge into his students, regardless of their background. However, soon after the recent attack on a Belgium airport and Metro, he noticed there is something particularly unique about his Muslim students. While civilians were being slaughtered in Brussels, the Dutch teacher witnessed his Muslim students openly applauding and celebrating the carnage. In front of the entire class, the Islamic children laughed and praised the terrorist attack, as the rest of the non-Muslim students simply looked on in horror. Mol quickly tweeted what was going on, asking, “How do you still teach when Muslim children in your class are applauding the attack?” link Immediate deportation for the entire extended families of these Muslim students is what commonsense would dictate.

Hi Herby,
I don't know if that story is really true or not.
I think most people were outraged about it - even Muslims.

Most victims of ISIS have been Muslims.

A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students?

No - a complete fabrication as it turns out...


Quote:

It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655135/Man-says-Muslims-celebrate-Brussels-attacks


Quote:

"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws.

(translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws")

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/drie-agenten-aan-de-deur-na-tweet-over-aanslagen-brussel

It absolutely is a mistake to allow so many Muslims into Europe.

They have proven both in their own countries and ours that they have a fundamentalist element not suited to peaceful living.

They are a right pain in the ass now to be honest.

I'd support deporting the lot of them.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 10:52pm:

Hi Herby, I don't know if that story is really true or not. I think most people were outraged about it - even Muslims. Most victims of ISIS have been Muslims.

bobby,

That is a lie!!!

Well, it is a misrepresentation of the facts.      !!!!!!!!



bobby,

The laws of ISLAM do not permit ISIS, to kill other moslems.

That would be simply, murder!

And killing another moslem,      ....that, is a crime in ISLAM.




.......as per 'the Noble Laws of Islam'.


"......If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
Koran 4.92-93



ISIS, are only allowed to kill people whom they [ISIS] deem to be apostates and disbelievers.




So PLEASE stop with your misinformation bobby,        ....about how so many poor, poor moslems, are being slaughtered by ISIS.     !!!!!

Coz the deceased are all filthy, stinking, apostates and disbelievers !!!!!

Bobby. wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 10:52pm:

Hi Herby, I don't know if that story is really true or not. I think most people were outraged about it - even Muslims. Most victims of ISIS have been Muslims.

That's because their military exploits have so far only been met by Muslim Resistance forces.

Once let loose upon the West and Israel they would be indulging in wholesale massacres of the Infidels and the Jews.

It's for want of opportunity that so far they've had to be battling fellow Muslims.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 11:32pm:

It absolutely is a mistake to allow so many Muslims into Europe. They have proven both in their own countries and ours that they have a fundamentalist element not suited to peaceful living. They are a right pain in the ass now to be honest. I'd support deporting the lot of them.

Wow. I didn't expect such a draconian solution from you, Andrei. I have thought of you and bogarde as Voices of Moderation whilst I myself have been exploring some of the more ... er .. 'radical' solutions as an exercise in Creative Writing for my TAFE course.  8-)

What does this bode for the future when presumably so many people in the West feel they've had a gutful of the seemingly endless mischief that is associated with Muslims and the religion of Islam?

Will Europe eventually create its own 'Pakistan' partition where the Muslims will be obliged to set up their own state if they don't want to return to their countries-of-origin?

We don't want to see locked cattle box-cars trundling across Europe packed with Muslims on their way to 'Labour Camps', but the longer the delay in implementing mass-deportations, the more oxygen is given to those who would like to see a far more terminal solution.

Muslims are increasingly being seen as 'vermin' by the general public, and the more wise among them should take note of this and make their own arrangements to emigrate to one of the 52 majority-Muslim countries in the world.

It's not rocket science that the political mood in the West is now in the process of shifting from the Far Left liberal-progressive of the past few decades to something approaching National Socialism.  When the tipping-point arrives, it will happen very quickly. 

Just in case anyone missed it, the following extract was 100% pulled out from the author's rectum:


Quote:

"When a classroom heard news of the horrific Brussels terrorist attack, the teacher immediately noticed something his Muslim students were doing that made his stomach churn. However, just four hours after he tweeted out what the teens were doing, he received a knock on his door. Ivar Mol is a Dutch teacher who prides himself on instilling knowledge into his students, regardless of their background. However, soon after the recent attack on a Belgium airport and Metro, he noticed there is something particularly unique about his Muslim students. While civilians were being slaughtered in Brussels, the Dutch teacher witnessed his Muslim students openly applauding and celebrating the carnage. In front of the entire class, the Islamic children laughed and praised the terrorist attack, as the rest of the non-Muslim students simply looked on in horror.

The teacher witnessed nothing - he was relaying rumours he heard about. How do we know? He said so himself.

The yoga teacher later received a visit from the police after making the claims.

During an interview, he said: “They told me they were ordered by the mayor, and there was a lot of pressure on the town.

“They asked why I had sent the tweet.

“It was kind of a warning, be careful about what you put on the internet.”

However, Mayor of Breda Paul Depla apologised to Mr Mol, saying the police’s visit was a “terribly stupid action”.


---------

That's funny, the story dramatically changed after the police were ordered by the mayor to pay him a visit with a warning. LOL

We mustn't upset the local muslims by telling the truth now must we.

Listen G, you stop being so offensive to Herb. If he wants to spread porkies about the Muselman, that’s his right in a free society.

You should watch yourself. Under Herbie’s rules, you could get deported for saying things like that. Herbie doesn’t tolerate that sort of nonsense, you know.

Yes, he may not agree with what you have to say, but Herb will fight for your right to be deported.

DENIED.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 11:10pm:

A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out...

He was wrong to say what he did - but don't blame the Daily Mail.

And it wasn't a 'complete fabrication' - it was a re-enactment of what friends had told him had happened in their classrooms.

He dramatised what others had told him - something that Hollywood has been doing since Year Dot with every scripted heresay since the bible was first put into print.

I believe that Muslim kids were seen to be acting in a triumphant fashion at the news of the Brussels tragedy.

Even the mayor of the town apologised for the Gestapo invasion.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 8:15pm:

I believe that Muslim kids were seen to be acting in a triumphant fashion at the news of the Brussels tragedy.

Yes, and you also believe that Bolt and Pickering are journalists.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 8:16pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 8:15pm: I believe that Muslim kids were seen to be acting in a triumphant fashion at the news of the Brussels tragedy. Yes, and you also believe that Bolt and Pickering are journalists.

Apologist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axSW-662tjs

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 8:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... He was wrong to say what he did - but don't blame the Daily Mail. And it wasn't a 'complete fabrication' - it was a re-enactment of what friends had told him had happened in their classrooms.

That’s right, G. And Herbie’s calling for the deportation of a re-enactment. We can get some pics of kids getting put on boats or something. No one’ll know the difference.

It’s not a complete fabrication. We’ll do the real deporting in the fullness of time, you’ll see.

It’s just a pity Herb won’t live to see it.

Mark Steyn:

Happy Easter from the Religion of Peace

In the spirit of the season, Asad Shah, a Glasgow newsagent and a "devout Muslim"*[see update at the foot of the page], decided to send out an Easter greeting on his Facebook page:

GOOD FRIDAY AND VERY HAPPY EASTER, ESPECIALLY TO MY BELOVED CHRISTIAN NATION X! BISMILLAH...

Let's Follow The Real Footstep Of Beloved Holy Jesus Christ (PBUH) And Get The Real Success In Both Worlds xxxx

Less than four hours after this ecumenical greeting, Mr Shah was savagely murdered outside his shop by his co-religionists:

The victim was found seriously injured on Minard Road, Glasgow, and was taken to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital where he later died on Thursday.

An eyewitness, who did not want to be named, told the Daily Record: "As I drove past I saw two men standing over the victim.

"One was stamping on his head. There was a pool of blood on the ground. It was horrific."

A 32-year-old Muslim man has been arrested.

Pace Mr Shah, Scotland is not much of a "Christian nation" these days. Instead, it is "tolerant", "diverse" and "multicultural". But a "tolerant" society determined to tolerate the avowedly intolerant won't be in business for long. Men like Asad Shah's killers are everything the safe-space pansies accuse us "white privilege" types of being: It is Shah's co-religionists who cannot abide the other. They won't tolerate Christians, they won't tolerate Muslims who convert to Christianity, and they won't even tolerate a devout Muslim who commits the sin of offering neighborly greetings on a Christian holiday. And so they killed him by "stamping on his head".

Not all Muslims are like these savages. Some (albeit not enough, for understandable reasons, given his grim end) are like poor Asad Shah. But, as my late compatriot George Jonas liked to point out, what matters in any population is not the numbers but who makes the running, who has the energy, who has the wind at their backs. And in Islam (in part thanks to the supine cringe of Cameron and other western leaders) the wind is not with Mr Shah but with the blood lust of his ravenous killers, and those who killed this week in Baghdad and Brussels and beyond.

You can have pluralism or Islam, but not both. Mr Shah thought he could have both, and so they killed him.

Rest in peace, Asad Shah.

Quote:

You can have pluralism or Islam, but not both.

The great irony here is that Steyn is proven wrong by Asad Shah himself.

He is dead Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

Quote: You can have pluralism or Islam, but not both. The great irony here is that Steyn is proven wrong by Asad Shah himself.

Also proof of Islamic intolerance.  No wonder fellow Muslims in the majority prefer to stay below the parapets if not passive endorsement. 

Submission eh.   8-)

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

He is dead Gandalf.

Steyn uses the murder of a muslim who clearly believed in and practiced pluralistic Islam to argue that Islam and pluralism can't exist.

You don't see any flaws in that?

No.

And it is not entirely clear what he believed in and practiced.

Good point FD. We certainly wouldn't want to accept any muslim at face value. No doubt his message had some sinister purpose. Just another 'grinning muslim' eh?Heaven forbid we ever find ourselves in the uncomfortable position of rallying behind a dead muslim for his faith.

Can you explain this 'flaw' Gandalf?

If you didn't get it the first time FD, I don't see much point explaining it again.

According to the immutable perfect never to be changed commands  of allah Asad Shah had to die:

qur'an 5.51: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

qur'an 5.80: Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

qur'an 3.28: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

As we can see from the above Asad Shah directly disobeyed islam/allah/muhammad/qur'an, his posturing towards Christians earned the wrath of allah, for his works were evil.

So what were muslims to do with him?

Well once again the immutable perfect qur'an has the answer;

qur'an 5.32: Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

qur'an 5.33: Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

So there you have it, the perfect never to be changed islamic tenets clearly say to torture and kill him.

But what about a muslim who may not want to kill him?

Well once again islam is very specific:

qur'an 4.88: What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

Clearly the perfect word asks why are there two groups of people with differing views on this hypocrite? It clearly states that allah caused the corrupter to go astray, no muslim is to help or guide him.

So according to the perfectly immutable filth and perversion of islam, Asad Shah disobeyed islam, he was sent astray by allah, therfore he was no longer under the protection of allah or other muslims, he deserved to be tortured and murdered,


The killers are the perfect muslims, Asad Shah was evil and deserved to die.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 2:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 2:01pm: He is dead Gandalf. Steyn uses the murder of a muslim who clearly believed in and practiced pluralistic Islam to argue that Islam and pluralism can't exist.

He was murdered for his stupid belief by one of your co religionists in a country that has no religious ties to your murderous cult. How can you possibly argue that Islam is "Pluralistic"

kemal wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:02pm:

He was murdered for his stupid belief

Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:18pm:

kemal wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:02pm: He was murdered for his stupid belief Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh?

I blame Islam.

These people only have themselves to blame.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:18pm:

kemal wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:02pm: He was murdered for his stupid belief Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh?

As Steyn says:

Not all Muslims are like these savages. Some (albeit not enough, for understandable reasons, given his grim end) are like poor Asad Shah. But, as my late compatriot George Jonas liked to point out, what matters in any population is not the numbers but who makes the running, who has the energy, who has the wind at their backs. And in Islam (in part thanks to the supine cringe of Cameron and other western leaders) the wind is not with Mr Shah but with the blood lust of his ravenous killers, and those who killed this week in Baghdad and Brussels and beyond.



This is important as should not be ignored. The Mr Shahs are not setting the course or the agenda for Islam.  They get murdered by those who do.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:18pm:

kemal wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:02pm: He was murdered for his stupid belief Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh?

Do you think his murder demonstrates how Islam and pluralism can live side by side?

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:18pm: kemal wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:02pm: He was murdered for his stupid belief Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh? Do you think his murder demonstrates how Islam and pluralism can live side by side?

Muslims just respected diversity and the Christians of Pakistan on Easter Sunday.

At least 70 dead due to Islam's respect for diversity - in a Muslim majority country.  Another blow has been struck for Muslim employment and integration everywhere.  And the Paki Secret Service wouldn't know about it. Yeah right.



At Arncliffe in Sydney,
"Police hunt shooters after 23-year-old man suffers multiple gunshot wounds in Arncliffe"

It never ends. Different story, same people.

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 6:54pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:18pm: kemal wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:02pm: He was murdered for his stupid belief Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh? Do you think his murder demonstrates how Islam and pluralism can live side by side? Muslims just respected diversity and the Christians of Pakistan on Easter Sunday. At least 70 dead due to Islam's respect for diversity - in a Muslim majority country.  Another blow has been struck for Muslim employment and integration everywhere.  And the Paki Secret Service wouldn't know about it. Yeah right. At Arncliffe in Sydney, "Police hunt shooters after 23-year-old man suffers multiple gunshot wounds in Arncliffe" It never ends. Different story, same people.

Yes, terrorists.

Apologist.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:18pm:

kemal wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 4:02pm: He was murdered for his stupid belief Thats right, his stupid belief that we should all live peacefully together in harmony. Serves him right eh?

No answer then.

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

Do you think his murder demonstrates how Islam and pluralism can live side by side?

Obviously not.

I do however think that the existence of a muslim wanting to send a happy easter message to christians does. I also think that the fact that this one incident made world headlines and everyone is talking about it demonstrates all that needs to be said on the matter. Or do you think this was the only muslim in the west who wished christians a happy easter?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:55pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 6:54pm: Do you think his murder demonstrates how Islam and pluralism can live side by side? Obviously not. I do however think that the existence of a muslim wanting to send a happy easter message to christians does. I also think that the fact that this one incident made world headlines and everyone is talking about it demonstrates all that needs to be said on the matter. Or do you think this was the only muslim in the west who wished christians a happy easter?

A lot of Pakistani Christians were also killed on Easter Sunday.

It made the headlines because it demonstrates the one way tolerance of Islam versus the rest of the world: Muslims are tolerated despite their daily outrages.

And because it happened in Scotland. Christians are killed every day, in great numbers, by Muslims in Muslim countries and you bemoan the fact that Westerners do not like Muslims killing ANYONE in the West, let alone another Muslim who wishes his compatriots happy Easter.

Your hypocrisy is staggering. Why do Western Muslims tolerate anyone among them who will kill another Muslim for wishing happy Easter in Scotland??  You have had at least 15 years to clense your communities of such evil Muslims - but their numbers have only grown.

Their numbers have only grown because Western Muslims have tolerated them, excused them, encouraged and harboured them.  If Western Muslms were really serious about eradicating Muslim terrorism in the West, it would have happened by now.

But you are not serious. You excuse, you blame the victims, you are deflecting.

You are simply not fair dinkum, that's the problem. If you were serious there would be no Western Muslim terrorism.  It is very simple and that is why it must not be said.ii

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:55pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 6:54pm: Do you think his murder demonstrates how Islam and pluralism can live side by side? Obviously not. I do however think that the existence of a muslim wanting to send a happy easter message to christians does. I also think that the fact that this one incident made world headlines and everyone is talking about it demonstrates all that needs to be said on the matter. Or do you think this was the only muslim in the west who wished christians a happy easter?

I wouldn't say he exists any more Gandalf. He's dead, remember?

Did you wish anyone a happy easter?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

Quote: You can have pluralism or Islam, but not both. The great irony here is that Steyn is proven wrong by Asad Shah himself.

Oh ?

And how do you come to that conclusion gandalf ???

To come to that conclusion,     .....you would have to first prove 1/ that Asad Shah was a moslem who was actually following a set of 'peaceful' tenets, of ISLAM,         .....AND, 2/ prove that ISLAM does not prohibit religious and political pluralism !




polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 2:24pm:

Steyn uses the murder of....... ....a muslim who clearly believed in and practiced pluralistic Islam to argue that Islam and pluralism can't exist.

The inference in your post #20 is wholly unsubstantiated.

To prove that Asad Shah "believed in and practiced pluralistic Islam" you would need to prove that tenets of ISLAM do not prohibit religious and political pluralism.


"pluralistic Islam"     ???

Where is it gandalf ???



THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260


ISLAMIC LAW....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06



"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111




.






polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

Quote: You can have pluralism or Islam, but not both. The great irony here is that Steyn is proven wrong by Asad Shah himself.

Oh ?

And how do you come to that conclusion gandalf ???

To come to that conclusion,     .....you would have to first prove 1/ that Asad Shah was a moslem who was actually following a set of 'peaceful' tenets, of ISLAM,         .....AND, 2/ prove that ISLAM does not prohibit religious and political pluralism !




polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 2:24pm:

Steyn uses the murder of....... ....a muslim who clearly believed in and practiced pluralistic Islam to argue that Islam and pluralism can't exist.

The inference in your post #20 is wholly unsubstantiated.

To prove that Asad Shah "believed in and practiced pluralistic Islam" you would need to prove that tenets of ISLAM do not prohibit religious and political pluralism.


"pluralistic Islam"     ???

Where is it gandalf ???


THE KORAN....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4


"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51


"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:53pm:

I wouldn't say he exists any more Gandalf. He's dead, remember?

Well done FD. You and Mark Steyn are making an excellent case that a pluralistic Islam can't exist without making a few nutters pissed off. But you are not making the case that pluralistic Islam can't exist.

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

A lot of Pakistani Christians were also killed on Easter Sunday.

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

Christians are killed every day, in great numbers, by Muslims in Muslim countries

Excuse me while I interrupt your crocodile tears over christian victims, but a minor detail that you probably didn't (want to) consider - a) most of the people killed in the Lahore attack were muslim and b) the overwhelming majority of victims of Islamic terror are muslims. Something like 95%+.

But please, continue lecturing me about hypocrisy.

And now you know that muslims overwhelmingly bear the brunt of Islmaic terrorism, do you think that is a little inconvenient for your muslim hive-mind narrative, where we're all on the same page about wanting to slaughter christians? Tell me what are your thoughts on the muslims in Lahore celebrating easter with christians?

It's the nutters that cause the problem Gandalf. You only have to look at Syria to see what 'a few nutters' can get up to when they have a violent creed to motivate and coordinate them.

I take it you did not wish anyone a happy easter then?

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:14pm:

It's the nutters that cause the problem Gandalf. You only have to look at Syria to see what 'a few nutters' can get up to when they have a violent creed to motivate and coordinate them.

Thank you captain obvious, I totally didn't know that a minority of nutters can cause problems.

Do you think Mr Asad Shah was the only muslim in the west that wished a christian a happy easter?


Quote:

I take it you did not wish anyone a happy easter then?

Why would you assume that?

I celebrate christmas and easter with my non-muslim family, not that it has anything to do with it. Must be awfully sinister eh? Just another 'grinning muslim' I suppose? How about we keep childish attempts at personal insults out of this hmm?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

Do you think Mr Asad Shah was the only muslim in the west that wished a christian a happy easter?

No, but I bet there'll be a lot less of it next easter, now that he has been made an example of.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

I celebrate christmas and easter with my non-muslim family, not that it has anything to do with it. Must be awfully sinister eh? Just another 'grinning muslim' I suppose? How about we keep childish attempts at personal insults out of this hmm?

;D ;D ;D

What rubbish.

Its like saying there will be a lot less labour party gatherings in Norway after Anders Brievik's rampage.

It was a single incident - name me one other incident in the west where a muslim has been murdered, or even attacked by other muslims for being nice to Christians. I can't think of any. And thats why its world headline news and we're all talking about it - because it almost never happens. Far more muslim women are physically attacked in the west for wearing a hijab, but there's no evidence less women wear the hijab.

islam the cult of the damned.

islam is an accumulation of the hatreds and perversions espoused by muhammad.

Asad Shah was doomed from the start. He was one of those who muhammad / allah portrayed as the evil hypocrite.

Asad Shah would have sat down to pee because muhammad did, played with his penis after urinating because muhammad did, crouched down to take off his pants because muhammad did, put his right boot on first because muhammad did, put his right leg into his pants first because muhammad did, stepped in and out of the toilet in the same manner as muhammad did, slept in a certain way (knees bent on your right side) because muhammad did, most likely married his cousin because muhammad did, sat on the floor to eat because muhammad did, ate with his right hand because muhammad did, ate with three fingers because muhammad did, sat down to drink because muhammad did, drank in three breaths because muhammad did, etc. etc..

Asad Shah's entire life was taken up by loving, worshipping and obeying muhammad.

Yet muhammad preached hatred towards the Asad Shahs of the world.

Just one example of many in islam

qur'an 5.80: Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

Asad Shah offered friendship to non muslims, according to allah / muhammad this made him an evil person and he was to be killed.

muslims and their apologists can lie about the principles of islam till the cows come home, they will never make islam anything other than what it is: a cult of killers, the cult of the damned.

Of course they know they can't change anything, for this would destroy islam, so the blood will keep flowing, just as muhammad intended.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:14pm: A lot of Pakistani Christians were also killed on Easter Sunday. Frank wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:14pm: Christians are killed every day, in great numbers, by Muslims in Muslim countries Excuse me while I interrupt your crocodile tears over christian victims, but a minor detail that you probably didn't (want to) consider - a) most of the people killed in the Lahore attack were muslim and b) the overwhelming majority of victims of Islamic terror are muslims. Something like 95%+. But please, continue lecturing me about hypocrisy. And now you know that muslims overwhelmingly bear the brunt of Islmaic terrorism, do you think that is a little inconvenient for your muslim hive-mind narrative, where we're all on the same page about wanting to slaughter christians? Tell me what are your thoughts on the muslims in Lahore celebrating easter with christians?

So then Islam is fine? We should let in more Pakistanis?

WHat's your point?  Islam is even more evil towards Muslims? That's a good thing and so Muslims targeting Christians should be not noticed?

What IS your point? Muslims want tolerance but don't give it, not even to their fellow Muslims??

More bigotry.  More trolling.  Stop wasting our time.  Muslims are victims.  Non-Muslims exact a terrible revenge.   Time you woke up to who the real victims are in all of this.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:49pm:

What rubbish. Its like saying there will be a lot less labour party gatherings in Norway after Anders Brievik's rampage. It was a single incident - name me one other incident in the west where a muslim has been murdered, or even attacked by other muslims for being nice to Christians. I can't think of any. And thats why its world headline news and we're all talking about it - because it almost never happens. Far more muslim women are physically attacked in the west for wearing a hijab, but there's no evidence less women wear the hijab.

I think he did a lot more than being nice to Christians.

How many attacks does it take? Very few cartoonists have been killed by Islamic extremists, but that is more than enough to make cartoonists think twice about drawing a cartoon of Muhammed. While your fellow Muslims were destroying freedom of speech, you were busy telling everyone it was a non-issue.

What do you think the 'nutters' will move onto once all the newspapers are afraid to publish Muhammed cartoons?

ISIS has decided to focus on exterminating the hypocrits among them, and you always go on about Muslims targeting other Muslims with their terrorism, so maybe this is not as 'out of character' as you portray.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:49pm:

What rubbish. Its like saying there will be a lot less labour party gatherings in Norway after Anders Brievik's rampage. It was a single incident - name me one other incident in the west where a muslim has been murdered, or even attacked by other muslims for being nice to Christians. I can't think of any. And thats why its world headline news and we're all talking about it - because it almost never happens. Far more muslim women are physically attacked in the west for wearing a hijab, but there's no evidence less women wear the hijab.

What about all the honour killings of Muslim girls who look at Western boys or go out with them or just dress like Western girls? Far, far too many of them are killed by their families for - being nice to non-Muslims.

|dev|null wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:00pm:

More bigotry.  More trolling.  Stop wasting our time.  Muslims are victims.  Non-Muslims exact a terrible revenge.   Time you woke up to who the real victims are in all of this.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

So it makes Islam OK because it inspires Muslims to kill other Muslims? It makes Islam OK because its victims are Muslims?

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 4:21pm:

WHat's your point?

Your entire narrative is about the hive-mind muslim horde all vying for western blood. Acknowledging the vast majority of muslim victims of terrorism would contradict this hive-mind narrative. Thats why you ignore it and talk only about christian and non-muslim victims of terror - even though these victims comprises less than 5% of the victims of Islamic terrorism.

Acknowledging 58 dead muslims out of 74 victims at the Lahore Easter celebration would obviously necessitate acknowledging a large number of muslims celebrating easter with christians - and that obviously is unacceptable. So you pretend all the victims were christian.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 6:49pm:

How many attacks does it take?

More than one.

Quote:

Your entire narrative is about the hive-mind muslim horde all vying for western blood.

Gandalf in all my time here, you are the one I have actually seen apply this have-mind term to Muslims.


Quote:

Acknowledging 58 dead muslims out of 74 victims at the Lahore Easter celebration would obviously necessitate acknowledging a large number of muslims celebrating easter with christians

You sure about that Gandalf?

How many attacks will it take before you’re too scared to publish Muhammed cartoons, FD?

I’m curious. Will you answer?

No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:36pm:

No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it.

Yes, but have you been threatened? Censured? Been issued with a fatwa?

Or in your own words, has the Muselman taken your Freeeeeedoms away?

We had a Muslim here threatening to sue me a while back. That is as close as it has come.

Right. So what would your answer be to the question you asked G?

How many attacks does it take?

Not many. That's the point of the strategy. You only have to kill a few if you target it properly. They have been very successful against authors, publishers and film makers. Cartoonists are the current target. After that, who knows? People who openly criticise Islam are too big of a target at the moment. They need another edge to chip away at.

In ISIS territory I would expect all the "good" Muslims to be making a genuine effort to be backwards conservative Muslims, lest they get accused of hypocrisy and end up on the chopping block. The Jews are too big and powerful.

Whatever stage the Muslims are at for taking over their society, they are slowly chipping away at people's rights and freedoms.

Not many?

If I may ask, would you suggest more than one?

The greater the stimulus, the greater the response.

Salman Rushdie was a single example that made world headlines because it was so outrageous. It also made authors and publishers think twice.

Think twice? Is that what you meant by G’s fellow Muslims destroying freedom of speech?

Did you think twice before publishing cartoons of Muhammed, FD?

And if you don’t mind my asking, who threatened to sue you?

I forget who it was. There was a thread on feedback about it.

Like I said, if I published a Muhammed cartoon that I came up with that went viral, I would have good reason to fear for my safety. Just as those people who made the dodgy internet video did. And the European cartoonists. And Rushdie. Do I need to explain this again Karnal?

Do you think I should only stand up for freedom of speech when it directly affects me?

You forgot which Muselman.threatened to sue you, eh?

And when you talk of the Muselman taking our freedom away, you mean the freedom of others?

I understand, FD. Not only are you a champion of women’s rights, you also stand up for cartoonists - who self publish.

No, FD, I think you should stand up for the freedom of others, as you so selflessly do. I think you should lend your voice to the cartoonists.

Pickering needs all the help you can give, no?

You cannot deny other people their freedom without denying it to yourself.

Do you have a problem with this concept Karnal? Does loss of freedom only matter when it directly affects how you choose to express yourself?

Sorry, FD, could you clarify if you’re saying you haven’t had any freedoms taken away, after all?

Cheers.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:36pm:

No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it.

Evidently you also feel obliged to let people post their demands that muslims be banned, deported, and systematically stripped of their rights.

Do you think that poses a threat to muslims, or do you just put all that in the same "necessary to attack muslims to protect our own rights" basket?

Would you ever consider that you are helping put muslims in genuine danger by turning this forum into a de-facto "ban muslims" outlet?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 9:46am:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 7:36pm: No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it. Evidently you also feel obliged to let people post their demands that muslims be banned, deported, and systematically stripped of their rights. Do you think that poses a threat to muslims, or do you just put all that in the same "necessary to attack muslims to protect our own rights" basket? Would you ever consider that you are helping put muslims in genuine danger by turning this forum into a de-facto "ban muslims" outlet?

FD’s not talking about destroying the Freeeeeedom of Muslims, G. They can do that for themselves.

No, FD’s talking about Muslims destroying the Freeeedom of decent white people everywhere.

Apart from FD, of course.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 9:46am:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 7:36pm: No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it. Evidently you also feel obliged to let people post their demands that muslims be banned, deported, and systematically stripped of their rights.

PROPOSITION;

It is not RATIONAL      .....for a society or a nation, to endow rights 1/ to criminals, 2/ nor to 3 metre Salt Water crocodiles, 3/ nor to persons who have the nature of 3 metre Salt Water crocodiles.


QUESTION;
Would a rational person, invite a 3 metre Salt Water crocodile to live in his house, to live in his lounge room,       ......because he thought that a 3 metre Salt Water crocodile deserved to have a roof over his head too ???

It is absurd.




.



THE HUMAN CROCODILES......


"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4


"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111



.




ISLAMIC law, and the Koran itself, repeatedly assert, that the [obedient] moslem,     whenever he has the means and power to do so,     will not passively permit and allow, other persons,       .....to worship a God, who is not called 'Allah'.

Google;
jihad is the pinnacle of islam

Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit




Quote:

July 28, 2006 Islamic Dictionary for Infidels ...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

Google



.




IMAGE...
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/129.jpeg

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior January 18, 2012 Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong "...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance. When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

Yadda wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:51am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 30th, 2016 at 9:46am: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 7:36pm: No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it. Evidently you also feel obliged to let people post their demands that muslims be banned, deported, and systematically stripped of their rights. PROPOSITION; It is not RATIONAL      .....for a society or a nation, to endow rights 1/ to criminals, 2/ nor to 3 metre Salt Water crocodiles, 3/ nor to persons who have the nature of 3 metre Salt Water crocodiles. QUESTION; Would a rational person, invite a 3 metre Salt Water crocodile to live in his house, to live in his lounge room,       ......because he thought that a 3 metre Salt Water crocodile deserved to have a roof over his head too ??? It is absurd.

If you challenge my proposition,          .....that moslems have the nature of 3 metre Salt Water crocodiles,           .....then i challenge you to watch what moslems say inside their religious institutions [mosques] - when they believe that they are speaking only to a moslem audience.



Watch the words coming out of their own mouths.

Watch Channel 4 [UK] Undercover Mosque on YT

Google;
dispatches undercover mosque, channel 4, -Return




.


WATCH THIS ALSO......

Hatred of Australia, AND, hatred of Australians, among the moslem community, AND, IT IS A HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY MEMBERS OF THE MOSLEM COMMUNITY, here in Australia.

------------- >



Quote:

" "You're never too young to be a soldier of Kalifah." ...and [these moslem children] promise to die fighting to end Democracy in Australia"

Watch a group of moslem children, being coached by moslem adults, to hate Australia, and Australians,
......HERE, WITHIN AUSTRALIA.       !!!!

And of course this cultural coaching of moslem children is all happening behind closed doors, and out of the public eye.





.




WATCH THIS ALSO......

Watch the words coming out of their own mouths.

---------- >


Quote:

"What makes Allah happy? Allah is happy, when kafir get killed."

---------- >

Please watch this YT...
Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims         goto 4m 30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0

Looks like they haven't destroyed Y's Freeeeeedom either, FD. 

Moslem == a saltwater crocodile.

Karnal wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 11:40am:

Looks like they haven't destroyed Y's Freeeeeedom either, FD.  Moslem == a saltwater crocodile.

Influenced by ISLAM's holy texts.....

Moslems = = deceitful, vicious, treacherous,     ....and ultimately, deadly,         ....to those who do not believe, as moslems believe.





QUESTION;

Who or what, is a moslem ???

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM.       < -------- dictionary definition.

And mainstream ISLAM is a philosophy which [within its doctrines, and tenets, and laws] teaches every moslem,        .....that a moslem who murders an enemy of Allah, is a good and virtuous person.



But, what or who, is 'an enemy of Allah' ???

ISLAM [in the Koran] defines anyone who is a disbeliever, as an enemy of Allah!


Seriously,          ......is it any wonder that so many 'nice' people, suddenly buy an airline ticket for Turkey [i.e. Syria], or walk into a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney, or go to the local mosque to obtain a pistol,               .....and then turn into homicidal maniacs ?

No,    ....it isn't.


Because;

Every moslem, is a moslem.



.




If you challenge my proposition,          .....that moslems have the nature of 3 metre Salt Water crocodiles,           .....then i challenge you to watch what moslems say inside their religious institutions [mosques] - when they believe that they are speaking only to a moslem audience.



Watch the words coming out of their own mouths.

Watch Channel 4 [UK] Undercover Mosque on YT

Google;
dispatches undercover mosque, channel 4, -Return




.


WATCH THIS ALSO......

Hatred of Australia, AND, hatred of Australians, among the moslem community, AND, IT IS A HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY MEMBERS OF THE MOSLEM COMMUNITY, here in Australia.

------------- >



Quote:

" "You're never too young to be a soldier of Kalifah." ...and [these moslem children] promise to die fighting to end Democracy in Australia"

Watch a group of moslem children, being coached by moslem adults, to hate Australia, and Australians,
......HERE, WITHIN AUSTRALIA.       !!!!

And of course this cultural coaching of moslem children is all happening behind closed doors, and out of the public eye.





.




WATCH THIS ALSO......

Watch the words coming out of their own mouths.

---------- >


Quote:

"What makes Allah happy? Allah is happy, when kafir get killed."

---------- >

Please watch this YT...
Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims         goto 4m 30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0

Sorry, Y, you're right. Moslems = = deceitful, vicious, treacherous,     ....and ultimately, deadly.

Looks like Y's had his Freeeeedom taken away after all, FD.

And who do we blame for that?

Karnal wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 10:29pm:

Sorry, FD, could you clarify if you’re saying you haven’t had any freedoms taken away, after all? Cheers.

Karnal you still lose your freedom to do something even if you had no intention of doing it. What you are arguing is no different to insisting we should not complain about them shipping Jews off to concentration camps unless we happen to be Jewish.


polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 9:46am:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 7:36pm: No idea. I feel obliged to let people post them here. If I came up with my own that was good enough to go viral I think I would be putting myself in genuine danger if I published it. Evidently you also feel obliged to let people post their demands that muslims be banned, deported, and systematically stripped of their rights. Do you think that poses a threat to muslims, or do you just put all that in the same "necessary to attack muslims to protect our own rights" basket? Would you ever consider that you are helping put muslims in genuine danger by turning this forum into a de-facto "ban muslims" outlet?

I also said your lunatic co-religionists should be free to express their opinions about blasphemy. You weren't complaining then, were you Gandalf?

freediver wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 6:22pm:

I also said your lunatic co-religionists should be free to express their opinions about blasphemy. You weren't complaining then, were you Gandalf?

lol - I was the one who argued that placards saying "behead those who insult the prophet" should be banned - remember? So yeah, I pretty much was complaining then. But its understandable you forgot that - we only debated it for about a month.

But you didn't answer my question FD - do you think turning this forum into a soapbox for right wing extremists to demand muslims have their rights systematically stripped away poses a threat to muslim's freedom?

Sorry, FD, what am I arguing again?

I’ve forgotten.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:08pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 30th, 2016 at 6:22pm: I also said your lunatic co-religionists should be free to express their opinions about blasphemy. You weren't complaining then, were you Gandalf? lol - I was the one who argued that placards saying "behead those who insult the prophet" should be banned - remember? So yeah, I pretty much was complaining then. But its understandable you forgot that - we only debated it for about a month. freedom?

I see. So it was you who threatened to sue poor FD. Shame on you for destroying FD’s Freeeeedom, G.

Sorry, I mean the Freeeeedom of other decent white people everywhere - like those who suggest we behead all those who insult the prophet.

Quote:

Sorry, FD, what am I arguing again?

That it doesn't matter if Muslims chip away at those freedoms we do not routinely choose to exercise.


Quote:

lol - I was the one who argued that placards saying "behead those who insult the prophet" should be banned - remember? So yeah, I pretty much was complaining then.

Here you go Gandalf - two days ago:


polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 2:30pm:

Its a nothing question FD - if we both agree that 'the Scots' shouldn't do anything to violate his right to free speech. So we get on to the bleeding obvious stuff like condemn his views and say how wrong they are. And in case I'm not clear enough, that course of action (condemn and say he is wrong) is my final answer to the original question. But far more relevant is to ask what the muslim community that he represents should be doing - in which case I would answer that they should democratically move to have him removed from his position, or at the very least censure him.

Quote:

But you didn't answer my question FD - do you think turning this forum into a soapbox for right wing extremists to demand muslims have their rights systematically stripped away poses a threat to muslim's freedom?

No. I also let you post here Gandalf. It's a politics forum.

What opinions would you like to ban, in the name of freedom?

Thanks for reminding me, FD. Strange, I don’t remember saying that.

Sometimes a question is just a question, no?

Lol at Karnal desperately struggling to remain relevant.

freediver wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 8:52pm:

Here you go Gandalf - two days ago:

Gee thanks for that random quote of mine that has absolutely nothing to do with what you were arguing.


freediver wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 8:52pm:

No. I also let you post here Gandalf. It's a politics forum. What opinions would you like to ban, in the name of freedom?

Nice strawman FD. Would you like to have another go at the actual question I asked?

Do you think turning this forum into a spineless apologist soapbox for right wing extremism against muslims poses a threat to the freedom of muslims? (hint: the answer has nothing to do with what should and shouldn't be allowed to be posted)

ian wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 11:36pm:

Lol at Karnal desperately struggling to remain relevant.

Relevant? When has the traitorous spineless apologist Karnal ever been relevant?

We'll leave the relevance to Yadda, Ian. Right now, FD's answering questions.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 4:21pm: WHat's your point? Your entire narrative is about the hive-mind muslim horde all vying for western blood. Acknowledging the vast majority of muslim victims of terrorism would contradict this hive-mind narrative. Thats why you ignore it and talk only about christian and non-muslim victims of terror - even though these victims comprises less than 5% of the victims of Islamic terrorism. Acknowledging 58 dead muslims out of 74 victims at the Lahore Easter celebration would obviously necessitate acknowledging a large number of muslims celebrating easter with christians - and that obviously is unacceptable. So you pretend all the victims were christian.

I pretend that the victims were Christians? Where do I pretend?

Christians were TARGETED:

Jamaat-ul-Ahrar (JuA), a faction of the Pakistani Taliban, has taken credit for the Easter-Day massacre and specified its purpose.

“The target was Christians,” said JuA spokesman, Ehsanullah Ehsan, who added that the jihadists wanted to send a message to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif “that we have entered Lahore.”



It seems that your point is that it is OK for jihadis to TARGET Christians as long as they are stupid and callous enough to kill more Muslims than Christians. More Muslims dies so never mind that Christians are TARGETED.


It is all done in the name of Islam and following Mohammed's example: Jamaat-ul-Ahrar ("Assembly of the Free") is a militant Sunni Islamic group that split away from the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan in August 2014.

Karnal wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:08pm:

Thanks for reminding me, FD. Strange, I don’t remember saying that. Sometimes a question is just a question, no?

Do you think we should concern ourselves with those particular freedoms we do not routinely choose to exercise, like the right to draw cartoons of Muhammed?


Quote:

Gee thanks for that random quote of mine that has absolutely nothing to do with what you were arguing.

It is relevant because you are supporting this Imam's right to speak in support of death for blasphemy.


Quote:

Do you think turning this forum into a spineless apologist soapbox for right wing extremism against muslims poses a threat to the freedom of muslims? (hint: the answer has nothing to do with what should and shouldn't be allowed to be posted)

This forum is a bit of software Gandalf. It does not apologise for anything. Nor do I exert the control over opinions that you suggest.

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 6:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:49pm: What rubbish. Its like saying there will be a lot less labour party gatherings in Norway after Anders Brievik's rampage. It was a single incident - name me one other incident in the west where a muslim has been murdered, or even attacked by other muslims for being nice to Christians. I can't think of any. And thats why its world headline news and we're all talking about it - because it almost never happens. Far more muslim women are physically attacked in the west for wearing a hijab, but there's no evidence less women wear the hijab. What about all the honour killings of Muslim girls who look at Western boys or go out with them or just dress like Western girls? Far, far too many of them are killed by their families for - being nice to non-Muslims.

Gandalf, did you miss this response to your question?

Sorry, FD, I lost concentration after "do you think we should concern.ourselves...".

Do you  want to ask.me another question?

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2016 at 6:20pm:

It is relevant because you are supporting this Imam's right to speak in support of death for blasphemy.

And yet I don't support spinelessly apologising for it.

My point is, once again, freedom is only a one-way street for you: you are passionate about countering attacks on freedom by muslims, but adopt a "nothing to see here" approach when this freedom crusade of yours turns into attacks on muslim's freedom. I am not talking about what you do and don't allow to be published - everyone knows you are happy to have all manner of opinions aired here, so don't keep bringing up that strawman. I'm talking about your own warped way of advocating freedom: as soon as anyone is perceived to be suggesting that Islam shouldn't be criticised, you scream it down from the rooftops, start a month-long thread on it and rant on and on about what a threat such a sentiment is to freedom. But when people suggest (as they do on a daily basis) that muslims should be banned, deported and systematically have their freedoms taken from them, FD is nowhere to be seen. Suddenly freedom isn't such an important thing - when its the freedom of muslims being attacked.

Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 10:17am:

freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 6:20pm: It is relevant because you are supporting this Imam's right to speak in support of death for blasphemy. And yet I don't support spinelessly apologising for it. My point is, once again, freedom is only a one-way street for you: you are passionate about countering attacks on freedom by muslims, but adopt a "nothing to see here" approach when this freedom crusade of yours turns into attacks on muslim's freedom. I am not talking about what you do and don't allow to be published - everyone knows you are happy to have all manner of opinions aired here, so don't keep bringing up that strawman. I'm talking about your own warped way of advocating freedom: as soon as anyone is perceived to be suggesting that Islam shouldn't be criticised, you scream it down from the rooftops, start a month-long thread on it and rant on and on about what a threat such a sentiment is to freedom. But when people suggest (as they do on a daily basis) that muslims should be banned, deported and systematically have their freedoms taken from them, FD is nowhere to be seen. Suddenly freedom isn't such an important thing - when its the freedom of muslims being attacked.

Muslims want to end freedom in the name of Islam. 

You MUST be aware of that very significant point. Islam is Submission, not Freedom.


Why is it 'warped' to not afford Islam a special sanctuary from criticism? What is special about Islam?

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again?

Feel free to say, FD.

Isn’t that why you started this board?

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again?

Absolutely FD.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

With increasing scepticism one asks how many of the so-called 'moderate majority' of Muslims are in fact traitors to Western societies for barracking for the terrorists. "When a classroom heard news of the horrific Brussels terrorist attack, the teacher immediately noticed something his Muslim students were doing that made his stomach churn. However, just four hours after he tweeted out what the teens were doing, he received a knock on his door. Ivar Mol is a Dutch teacher who prides himself on instilling knowledge into his students, regardless of their background. However, soon after the recent attack on a Belgium airport and Metro, he noticed there is something particularly unique about his Muslim students. While civilians were being slaughtered in Brussels, the Dutch teacher witnessed his Muslim students openly applauding and celebrating the carnage. In front of the entire class, the Islamic children laughed and praised the terrorist attack, as the rest of the non-Muslim students simply looked on in horror. Mol quickly tweeted what was going on, asking, “How do you still teach when Muslim children in your class are applauding the attack?” Immediate deportation for the entire extended families of these Muslim students is what commonsense would dictate.

Better still a dose of sharia law in the local town square with some machetes for our western entertainment.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2016 at 7:26pm: Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again? Absolutely FD. Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?

FD won't say, G.

When was the last time he criticized things you did not say?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2016 at 7:26pm: Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again? Absolutely FD. Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?

Why do you demand equal freedom and equal treatment for people who want to defend secular democratic freedoms and those who want to destroy them? Why should the enemies of these freedoms be given the freedom to destroy?

You seem to think that these freedoms are absolute, regardless of place, circumstances, laws etc. But they are not.  Islamists should not be free to intimidate others into Submission.

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:26am:

Why do you demand equal freedom and equal treatment for people who want to defend secular democratic freedoms and those who want to destroy them?

I think FD is better qualified to answer this. He can give his usual spiel about freedom containing the seeds of its own destruction.

What is your solution Frank? Deny certain people their freedoms because of the views they hold? Seems to me you're not really arguing in favour of freedom, but some sort of despotic system. That may be fine, but don't pretend you are standing up for secular democracy.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:45am:

Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 8:26am: Why do you demand equal freedom and equal treatment for people who want to defend secular democratic freedoms and those who want to destroy them? I think FD is better qualified to answer this. He can give his usual spiel about freedom containing the seeds of its own destruction. What is your solution Frank? Deny certain people their freedoms because of the views they hold? Seems to me you're not really arguing in favour of freedom, but some sort of despotic system. That may be fine, but don't pretend you are standing up for secular democracy.

Please don't try this nonsense on with me, it is really not credible.
The problem is that Islamists are not content to draw the line at expressing the views they hold.

The problem is that they are willing and prepared to murder and cause harm in the name of their views, in London, Paris, New York, Brussels, everywhere. Perhaps because the views they hold requires them to kill all who do not honour Islam and Mohammed.

And if they are not killing, they are suing others who have different views (lawfare), so even debate about their views is curtailed.

This is not about the exchange of views, its about the imposition of Islamic values and views, which are decidedly and unapologetically unfree, anti-freedom, on unwilling and unsympathetic secular democratic and free societies.

If it was all just talk, nobody would care. But it is daily atrocities, daily demands of curtailment of freedoms, daily demands for the acceptance of customs and norms that are anti-free, anti-secular, anti-democratic. Islamist views do not represent an improvement on any aspect of life, anywhere and most certainly not in free, democratic secular Western societies.

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

gandalf wrote:

Quote:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question.

I take it your referring to muslims who want to over throw peaceful secular democracies.

If so can we have some details about how muslims intend to achieve this peacefully?

Give some details of what they believe secular democracies should be replaced with.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question.

No its not a serious a question at all its a ridiculous question.

Lets face it we are talking about so called moderate muslims here. Speak what you mean instead of the usual.... We all know what you mean.


Lets see, a moderate muslim, what is that : -

- Someone who believes the qur'an is a holy book and the word of god.

- Someone who believes mohammed is the perfect example of a muslim.

- Someone who believes in destroying secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and rejects violence.

Yet this very same person believes a book is actually from a god that tells every believer to commit terrorist acts and violence and atrocities against non believers.

Now that's a bit ironic and hypocritical. That cannot be refuted by the way as they are not allowed to change what the qur'an says since it was written in medieval times. Their god said so.

Is this the same moderate muslim that rejects violence, yet calls it holy in the next breath. Surely not.

Truly astounding is the non existent "moderate muslim" yet they are rolled out in wheelchairs by the dozen every time crying, hard done by, yet they believe this shyte.

So we must be talking about non -muslims who want to want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence.

Do you mean the greens ?

How do you feel about the democratic freedom to be a Muslim, James?

I’m.curious.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 10:05am: OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question. Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully? I can't think of an example.

Deport them.

Karnal wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 6:24pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 10:05am: OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question. Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully? I can't think of an example. Deport them.

Deport who? The peaceful detroyers of secular democratic freedoms? WHO are they?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question.

The 70 Islamist groups in Canada who tried to criminalise criticism of Islam in Parliament were peacefully trying to dismantle secular freedoms, they were obviously trying to implement Islamic blasphemy laws that go against our freedoms.

If they can convince the leftist do gooders this is a good thing then perhaps we can have public executions of blasphemers against Islam in Martin Place where they have their heads chopped off like Saudi Arabia or hung from a crane like Iran does.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 11:10pm:

A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655135/Man-says-Muslims-celebrate-Brussels-attacks [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws.

(translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws")

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/drie-agenten-aan-de-deur-na-tweet-over-aanslagen-brussel[/quote]
So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks?

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655135/Man-says-Muslims-celebrate-Brussels-attacks [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws. (translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws") http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/drie-agenten-aan-de-deur-na-tweet-over-aanslagen-brussel

So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks?





[/quote]



The vast majority would not.

Are you telling me that Christians never celebrate the hate filled antics of the Westboro Church?

mothra wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:13pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 8:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655135/Man-says-Muslims-celebrate-Brussels-attacks [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws. (translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws") http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/drie-agenten-aan-de-deur-na-tweet-over-aanslagen-brussel So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks?

The vast majority would not.

Are you telling me that Christians never celebrate the hate filled antics of the Westboro Church?[/quote]

Is westbro the worst lot u can come up with ? They have repugnant views but what's their body count?

Interesting podcast with an ex westbro

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/leaving-the-church

GordyL wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:21pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:13pm: Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 8:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655135/Man-says-Muslims-celebrate-Brussels-attacks [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws. (translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws") http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/drie-agenten-aan-de-deur-na-tweet-over-aanslagen-brussel So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks? The vast majority would not. Are you telling me that Christians never celebrate the hate filled antics of the Westboro Church?

Is westbro the worst lot u can come up with ? They have repugnant views but what's their body count?
[/quote]



Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it.


Again.

mothra wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:40pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:13pm: Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 8:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws. (translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws") So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks? The vast majority would not. Are you telling me that Christians never celebrate the hate filled antics of the Westboro Church? Is westbro the worst lot u can come up with ? They have repugnant views but what's their body count? Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again.

Go right ahead again and again and again it still don't make it so, and also show us where their holy book for your perception of Christianity says to commit the terrorist acts  they do. Then tell us how they are Christians.

Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. They do  feed less learned simpletons though that have an axe to grind.

Islams religion however DOES tell its followers to commit terrorist acts UNLIKE Christianity.

I think you need to study a bit more before commenting on the subject.

Can't wait to see these so called Christian terrorist groups listed with their christian bible that Jesus tells them to commit terrorism today. LOL

mothra wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:40pm:

Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again.

Yes, why not list the Christian terrorist organisations active in the West or in Muslim countries.

Don't bother with the Africans. List the relevant ones.

Frank wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 12:41pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Yes, why not list the Christian terrorist organisations active in the West or in Muslim countries. Don't bother with the Africans. List the relevant ones.

Why, Frank? What's the difference with an African country? Are you suggesting civil war might have something to do with it?

Sir James wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 4:05am:

mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: GordyL wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:13pm: Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 8:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws. (translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws") So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks? The vast majority would not. Are you telling me that Christians never celebrate the hate filled antics of the Westboro Church? Is westbro the worst lot u can come up with ? They have repugnant views but what's their body count? Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Go right ahead again and again and again it still don't make it so, and also show us where their holy book for your perception of Christianity says to commit the terrorist acts  they do. Then tell us how they are Christians. Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity.

Ah. And Muslims?

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: GordyL wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:13pm: Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 8:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26th, 2016 at 11:10pm: A teacher giving a first hand account of the reactions of his own students? No - a complete fabrication as it turns out... Quote: It later emerged that Mr Mol, of Breda, in the Netherlands, had heard claims from his friends that children in their classes had cheered the terror attack. [quote]"I heard messages from friends in Antwerp and Brussels representing the class that there was applause for the attacks," Ivar Mol tells RTL Nieuws. (translated from the original: ""Ik hoorde berichten van vrienden in Antwerpen en Brussel die voor de klas staan dat er geapplaudisseerd werd voor de aanslagen", vertelt Ivar Mol aan RTL Nieuws") So Muslims never celebrate Muslim terrorist attacks? The vast majority would not. Are you telling me that Christians never celebrate the hate filled antics of the Westboro Church? Is westbro the worst lot u can come up with ? They have repugnant views but what's their body count? Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Go right ahead again and again and again it still don't make it so, and also show us where their holy book for your perception of Christianity says to commit the terrorist acts  they do. Then tell us how they are Christians. Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. Ah. And Muslims?

Muslims are terrorists (or sideline cheerers just as bad one and the same either way) as the Qur'an tells them and instructs them to commit terrorism.

One says hey dude I am a muslim look at me commit terror. Check his actions against islams book they call holy and if he is on par he is muslim or may as well be no difference.

Its a no brainer really, pun intended if you know your subject matter.

You could always pretend that they are the same in a fanciful world. Reality of their doctrine proves different. All muslims believe that doctrine is the word of god.

Sir James wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 4:05am:

Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity.

Just because someone does something and says that they are a Muslim does NOT make it Islam.

It does if they are obeying the commands of allah, the teachings of muhammad, the verses in the qur'an. (they are the highest grade of muslims)

I love all people, including those who through fear or ignorance incite hatred and fear in others.

I will say that most of the hatred is being directed towards minorities. Historically this is rarely the segment of society causing the issues that the haters fixate on. But meh, if you wanna hate and make your world worse its your choice. I just dont understand why you choose it, or if you even understand that there are alternatives.

Sir James wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 4:05am:

Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity.

It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians).

Del

Quote:

It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians).

Why are you afraid of mentioning the N.T.?

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 2:42pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians).

Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery.

If Moses ever read Yadda's New Testament quotes, he'd see a Karmic Christian's perspective on banning, killing and nuking Moslems. According to Yadda, hating the Muselman is our Christian duty.

Ah the disingenuous attempts by the apologists for muslims.

As far as I can make out the O.T. quotes come from ancient Mosaic/ Judaic law.

Again as far as I know, these antiquated laws were superseded by the teachings of the N.T. E.G.:

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.


Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Seems pretty clear to anyone that is prepared to be a bit honest, that the O.T. laws are long gone and have no relevance to Christianity

Islam basically re-introduced the worst parts of the old testament, and gave them a strongly political and military aspect, just to let the infidels know who is boss.


polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2016 at 7:26pm: Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again? Absolutely FD. Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?

No. You are the one keeping tabs Gandalf, not me. Are you referring to any proposals in particular? If you are talking about the "right" to dual citizenship, I am actually OK with that one. The last one I recall was when there was a call to ban the burqa here in Australia and in some European countries.

Should I be reminding people of these on a regular basis out of some warped sense of "fairness"?

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 3:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:42pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - ........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery.

Karnal,

I call, bull shyte and lies.

Please cite the scripture,      .....O.T. or N.T. for such biblical/Christian punishments.

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 3:08pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:42pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - ........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery. Karnal, I call, bull shyte and lies. Please cite the scripture,      .....O.T. or N.T. for such biblical/Christian punishments.

Sure, Y. I’ll give you the opportunity tonight to read your Bible and provide quotes. I’ll post tomorrow.

If you don’t find those quotes, will you agree to give up your day job as a Biblical scholar?

moses wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Ah the disingenuous attempts by the apologists for muslims. As far as I can make out the O.T. quotes come from ancient Mosaic/ Judaic law. Again as far as I know, these antiquated laws were superseded by the teachings of the N.T. E.G.: Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it. Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Seems pretty clear to anyone that is prepared to be a bit honest, that the O.T. laws are long gone and have no relevance to Christianity

Good quotes, Moses. I like them. I agree.

But you’ve finally met a Christian who disagrees with the NT. Yes, Yadda is what he calls an.OT man. The parts in the Bible on love and forgiveness, for example, seem to have escaped him.

Y admits he’s a little unconventional this way.

He’ll give you the dictionary definition if you like.

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:41pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Yes, why not list the Christian terrorist organisations active in the West or in Muslim countries. Don't bother with the Africans. List the relevant ones. Why, Frank? What's the difference with an African country? Are you suggesting civil war might have something to do with it?

What's the difference between a European and an African country?

Frank wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 1:46pm: Frank wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:41pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Yes, why not list the Christian terrorist organisations active in the West or in Muslim countries. Don't bother with the Africans. List the relevant ones. Why, Frank? What's the difference with an African country? Are you suggesting civil war might have something to do with it? What's the difference between a European and an African country?

Yes. That’s what I asked.

Do they have a different version of Christianity in Africa?

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:24pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:26pm: Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 3:08pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:42pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - ........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery. Karnal, I call, bull shyte and lies. Please cite the scripture,      .....O.T. or N.T. for such biblical/Christian punishments. Sure, Y. I’ll give you the opportunity tonight to read your Bible and provide quotes. I’ll post tomorrow. If you don’t find those quotes, will you agree to give up your day job as a Biblical scholar?

Karnal,

You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer.



Karnal,

Prove me wrong.

All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true.



I'm not holding my breath.

People like you have no shame [in publishing lies], and so, have no credibility.

No worries, Y. I will.

Are you saying I’ve got the word order wrong, or I’ve mixed up burning with stoning.- or cutting out tongues for cutting out flesh?

I.e, are you disagreeing over the wording or the legal technicalities?

Please explain.

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 2:21pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. Just because someone does something and says that they are a Muslim does NOT make it Islam.

If Islam tells its adherents to commit the terrorist act in its doctrine it does potato.

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 2:42pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians).

Of course Christians follow Jesus Christ, He never taught such terrorist acts like the qur'an and mohammed do.

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 3:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:42pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery. If Moses ever read Yadda's New Testament quotes, he'd see a Karmic Christian's perspective on banning, killing and nuking Moslems. According to Yadda, hating the Muselman is our Christian duty.

Incorrect, again.

As far as hate goes Christians hate evil and that's fine. Islam is a false religion spawned by Satan and clearly evil. Christians don't hate the muselman they hate the false religion leading people to eternal damnation. Satan laughs at muslims. Christians want them all to be saved and have eternal life and live in peace.

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 8:24pm: Yadda wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:26pm: Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 3:08pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:42pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - ........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery. Karnal, I call, bull shyte and lies. Please cite the scripture,      .....O.T. or N.T. for such biblical/Christian punishments. Sure, Y. I’ll give you the opportunity tonight to read your Bible and provide quotes. I’ll post tomorrow. If you don’t find those quotes, will you agree to give up your day job as a Biblical scholar? Karnal, You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer. Karnal, Prove me wrong. All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true. I'm not holding my breath. People like you have no shame [in publishing lies], and so, have no credibility.

Funny how islam and muslims do all that though.

People that post on subjects they know nothing about are tedious indeed. One might start actually learning the fact Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Prove His teachings promote the garbage terrorist acts islamic allah does and I'll buy the potato a Ferrari.

moses wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Quote: It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Why are you afraid of mentioning the N.T.?

Because that's all about Christianity and Jesus and is the New Covenant between God and Mankind and it proves them wrong and doesn't support the seething lust and hatred of Christians.

At the end of the day there are no moderate or extreme muslims.

There is only just muslims as they all believe the same book that teaches terrorism and hatred and they ALL call it the word of their god and holy. It takes a mental giant to actually do that.

Whether breast beating, committing terrorist acts, cheering from the sidelines or sitting in the corner keeping quiet with fingers crossed. If they believe that book is their gods and it is holy they are all terrorists as that book propagates.

If someone says yeah I am a muslim but don't believe those terrorist parts they are simply a person calling them self a muslim who is really not. Most of those in their very next breath will say the qur'an is holy and thus making a fool of themselves and hypocrites.

There is no moderate or extreme muslim. You just have muslims.

It ain't that hard to understand. Really its not.

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 8:24pm: Yadda wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:26pm: Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 3:08pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:42pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:05am: Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity. It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians). Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes - ........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery. Karnal, I call, bull shyte and lies. Please cite the scripture,      .....O.T. or N.T. for such biblical/Christian punishments. Sure, Y. I’ll give you the opportunity tonight to read your Bible and provide quotes. I’ll post tomorrow. If you don’t find those quotes, will you agree to give up your day job as a Biblical scholar? Karnal, You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer. Karnal, Prove me wrong. All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true.

No worries, Y.

Burn them:


Quote:

Leviticus 20:14. And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Quote:

Leviticus 21:9. And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Quote:

Genesis 38:24. Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

Stone & burn them:


Quote:

Joshua 7:15, 24-25. He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath. ... And Joshua ... took Achan ... and his sons, and his daughters ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire.

Stone them:


Quote:

Leviticus 20:2. Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Quote:

Leviticus 24:16. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

Quote:

Leviticus 24:23. And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Quote:

Deuteronomy 22:22. If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her. Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Amputate them:


Quote:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12. When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her

Quote:

Hosea 13:16. Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Kill them all:


Quote:

Ezekiel 9:5-6. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary

An eye for an eye:


Quote:

Leviticus 24:20. Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 10:05am: OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question. Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully? I can't think of an example.

The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully.

Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right?

Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

No. You are the one keeping tabs Gandalf, not me.

Sorry FD, are you saying you didn't set up the wiki to keep tabs? Should I dig up the many quotes of you saying you specifically set it up to keep tabs on the lies and deception of muslims?

And are you saying the spineless apologetics thread is not a "keeping tabs" thread?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:41pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 10:05am: OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question. Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully? I can't think of an example. The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully. Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right? Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

The holocaust denial laws only affect the idiots who think it never happened which includes muslims, hardly an infringement on the rest of us who are sane.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

Are you referring to any proposals in particular? If you are talking about the "right" to dual citizenship, I am actually OK with that one. The last one I recall was when there was a call to ban the burqa here in Australia and in some European countries.

The last one you recall eh?  ;D

Good one FD. Are you seriously telling me you are not aware of sprint's near-daily calls to ban and deport muslims whenever they sneeze the wrong way? Or Herb's more than daily calls to deport muslims even when they are being peaceful? In fact there is a recent example that I asked you about, Herb called for the staff of a private Islamic school to be deported for expressing views like women should stay in the home. Coincidentally, it was just yet another attack on muslim's freedom that you missed.

How about this one...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1447837914/0

not only is sprint condoning a vicious physical attack on innocent muslims, in post#30 he calls for a woman to be deported for wearing a hijab - on the basis that "she is flagrantly flying the flag for terrorists and the destruction of our society" (post#45).

Ring any bells? Does it come across as a tad hypocritical that a freedom-lover as yourself, who nitpicks each and every attack on freedom by muslims and their apologists, would completely ignore all these attacks on freedom?

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:50pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5th, 2016 at 12:41pm: Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 10:05am: OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question. Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully? I can't think of an example. The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully. Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right? Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation? The holocaust denial laws only affect the idiots who think it never happened which includes muslims, hardly an infringement on the rest of us who are sane.

Here you go FD, another spineless apology on attacks on freedom that you can ignore.

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 10:45pm: Karnal, You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer. Karnal, Prove me wrong. All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true. No worries, Y. [Karnal quotes O.T. scripture]

Karnal,

re your post #137,

Well done!!!!!

We've got you reading, well, quoting actual O.T. scripture!



Karnal,

Re those O.T. punishments;

All of those punishments which you quoted, applied to ancient Hebrew covenant breakers.

And ONLY to Hebrew covenant breakers.



AS PER....

The Hebrew nation was in covenant with their God.

And those religious laws [and punishments] applied to members of the Hebrew nation, because they were 'in covenant' with their God.



AS PER....

Exodus 19:8
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.



Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23  And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
....
....
26  And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.



.



But, but, Karnal,        .....where is the scripture which condemns nagging wives to having their tongues cut out [because they were nagging wives], and, the scripture which endorses the burning adulteresses to death [because they were adulteresses] ????

????

Karnal said.....

Quote:

........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery.

p.s.
The description in            Ezekiel 9:5-6 [which you quoted]                  is actually from a vision recorded by the prophet Ezekiel.

It is not the record of an event/punishment which actually occurred.


Ezekiel 8:1
And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
2  Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3  And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4  And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.





But very good Karnal, if you were actually reading, actual O.T. scripture!

Bravo!!

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:41pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 10:05am: OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree. But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected? Its a serious question. Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully? I can't think of an example. The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully. Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right? Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

Well, their co-religionists are attacking Canada violently in the name of Islam. I don't think these Muslim politicians, who want anti-freedom laws in the name of Islam can ignore that connection.

SO no, I don't think that Islamists should be allowed to advocate and introduce laws in the name of Islam while other Islamists are committing violent attacks on the West in the name of the same political ideology.

I think under the circumstances advocates of Islamic laws should be treated as advocates of Nazi or Red Bridags or Soviet or other communist laws.

Quote:

Good one FD. Are you seriously telling me you are not aware of sprint's near-daily calls to ban and deport muslims

Like I said, I am not keeping tabs. Interpretted a certain way, I actually agree with these proposals.

In any case, I still do not see your point Gandalf. As far as I can tell you are criticising me for things I am not saying. Is there anything more to it than that? Suppose I completely ignored everything Sprint posts, would there be something wrong with that?


Quote:

Ring any bells? Does it come across as a tad hypocritical that a freedom-lover as yourself, who nitpicks each and every attack on freedom by muslims and their apologists, would completely ignore all these attacks on freedom?

I think it is entirely consistent with my views on Islam.


Quote:

Here you go FD, another spineless apology on attacks on freedom that you can ignore.

Thanks for reminding me. We had a long conversation about the holocaust denial laws. As I recall, I was trying to convince you that they were wrong at some stage. Does that count? Or do I need to remind you about it on a daily basis?

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

In any case, I still do not see your point Gandalf. As far as I can tell you are criticising me for things I am not saying.

Essentially yes.

Its a valid criticism given how much emphasis you give on the importance of standing up for freedom (your stated motivation for setting up this board) - but then spend your whole time talking only about one particular type of threat to freedom. And not just talking about that particular threat, being so obsessed about it, keeping tabs on all the alleged lies and "apologetics" by muslims and their supporters (and then denying it), and obsessively stalking your favourite punching bags like me and greg all over the forum in order to make spiteful attacks on them. For someone who claims to be so passionate about freedom, it reeks of utter hypocrisy given a) before 2007 you seemed to think attacks on muslim freedoms were important enough to respond and counter and b) how pervasive are the attacks - and yet despite that you not only not seem to recognise it as a problem worth criticising, you even (incredibly) play dumb and pretend it doesn't happen.

Yadda wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 5th, 2016 at 10:58am: Yadda wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 10:45pm: Karnal, You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer. Karnal, Prove me wrong. All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true. No worries, Y. [Karnal quotes O.T. scripture] Karnal, re your post #137, Well done!!!!! We've got you reading, well, quoting actual O.T. scripture!

That's strange, Y. After all:


Quote:

People like you have no shame [in publishing lies], and so, have no credibility.

Can I ask, why did you not post these readings yourself?

Have you not read them?

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

Quote: Good one FD. Are you seriously telling me you are not aware of sprint's near-daily calls to ban and deport muslims Like I said, I am not keeping tabs. Interpretted a certain way, I actually agree with these proposals.

Ban them.

Kill them.

Nuke them.

No telling the truth about islam is all that's required.

islam is the world's largest cult of killers.

The qur'an is a book of filth and perversion.

allah is an evil satanic deity worshipped by muslims.

muhammad was human filth (a thief, liar,  pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer).

The tenets of islam inspire muslims to commit unspeakably inhumane deeds against their fellow man, in the name of islam.

islam is a degenerate putrefied doctrine, the proof is right in front of our eyes as we see the depraved actions of muslims around the globe, right now 2016. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 6:47am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5th, 2016 at 7:07pm: In any case, I still do not see your point Gandalf. As far as I can tell you are criticising me for things I am not saying. Essentially yes. Its a valid criticism given how much emphasis you give on the importance of standing up for freedom (your stated motivation for setting up this board) - but then spend your whole time talking only about one particular type of threat to freedom. And not just talking about that particular threat, being so obsessed about it, keeping tabs on all the alleged lies and "apologetics" by muslims and their supporters (and then denying it), and obsessively stalking your favourite punching bags like me and greg all over the forum in order to make spiteful attacks on them. For someone who claims to be so passionate about freedom, it reeks of utter hypocrisy given a) before 2007 you seemed to think attacks on muslim freedoms were important enough to respond and counter and b) how pervasive are the attacks - and yet despite that you not only not seem to recognise it as a problem worth criticising, you even (incredibly) play dumb and pretend it doesn't happen.

If Sprint and Yadda are the worst you have to face, you should consider yourself lucky and thank Allah you are not confronted with a psychopath who receives instructions from angels to murder you and 800 of your closest male relatives to further his quest for political power - that is what non-Muslims are confronted with every time a Muslim holds up a Koran.

My participation on this forum is entirely consistent with my views on Islam.

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 1:09pm:

If Sprint and Yadda are the worst you have to face, you should consider yourself lucky and thank Allah you are not confronted with a psychopath who receives instructions from angels to murder you and 800 of your closest male relatives to further his quest for political power - that is what non-Muslims are confronted with every time a Muslim holds up a Koran.

Sorry, FD, are you saying Moslem == a follower of Islam?

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 1:09pm:

If Sprint and Yadda are the worst you have to face, you should consider yourself lucky and thank Allah you are not confronted with a psychopath who receives instructions from angels to murder you and 800 of your closest male relatives to further his quest for political power - that is what non-Muslims are confronted with every time a Muslim holds up a Koran.

You are mistaking me for someone who claims victim status. I have pointed out many times that I, like you, get a free pass on account of the colour of my skin. You and I will never be victims of racism. For the people who have the "wrong" skin colour however, the threat is very real - as was the case for the kebab shop owner and his wife in Scotland who were savagely beaten for what happened in Paris, and for which Sprint labelled "totally justified". It is these people who are constantly the target of intimidation and harassment, and calls for their rights to be systematically stripped. Innocent people who have nothing to do with the terrorists, have never in their lives seen the Quran as a tool of violence or oppression, and who more often than not, are themselves victims of the terrorists people like you associate them with.

Being such a passionate defender of freedom, I just thought you might recognise this as a serious threat to freedom, and worth speaking out against.


freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 1:09pm:

My participation on this forum is entirely consistent with my views on Islam

Are you saying your views on Islam trumps your views on freedom?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 6th, 2016 at 1:09pm: If Sprint and Yadda are the worst you have to face, you should consider yourself lucky and thank Allah you are not confronted with a psychopath who receives instructions from angels to murder you and 800 of your closest male relatives to further his quest for political power - that is what non-Muslims are confronted with every time a Muslim holds up a Koran. You are mistaking me for someone who claims victim status. I have pointed out many times that I, like you, get a free pass on account of the colour of my skin. You and I will never be victims of racism.

How dare you. Decent white people are victimized each and every day - largely by the Muselman.

Hating the Muselman isn't racist. Islam is not a race. This has been explained to you numerous times.

Oh, when will it ever end?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 6th, 2016 at 1:09pm: If Sprint and Yadda are the worst you have to face, you should consider yourself lucky and thank Allah you are not confronted with a psychopath who receives instructions from angels to murder you and 800 of your closest male relatives to further his quest for political power - that is what non-Muslims are confronted with every time a Muslim holds up a Koran. You are mistaking me for someone who claims victim status. I have pointed out many times that I, like you, get a free pass on account of the colour of my skin. You and I will never be victims of racism. For the people who have the "wrong" skin colour however, the threat is very real - as was the case for the kebab shop owner and his wife in Scotland who were savagely beaten for what happened in Paris, and for which Sprint labelled "totally justified". It is these people who are constantly the target of intimidation and harassment, and calls for their rights to be systematically stripped. Innocent people who have nothing to do with the terrorists, have never in their lives seen the Quran as a tool of violence or oppression, and who more often than not, are themselves victims of the terrorists people like you associate them with. Being such a passionate defender of freedom, I just thought you might recognise this as a serious threat to freedom, and worth speaking out against.

If there was no Islamic terrorism nobody would bother kebab shop owners. Except, perhaps, if the kebab shop owner grooms and has sex with underage girls, may or may not has killed and put into his kebabs one or two of them.

Different Muslim kebab shop owners - but how do you tell the difference?

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:11pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 9:05pm: Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 1:46pm: Frank wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:41pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Yes, why not list the Christian terrorist organisations active in the West or in Muslim countries. Don't bother with the Africans. List the relevant ones. Why, Frank? What's the difference with an African country? Are you suggesting civil war might have something to do with it? What's the difference between a European and an African country? Yes. That’s what I asked. Do they have a different version of Christianity in Africa?

Evidently.

Quote:

You are mistaking me for someone who claims victim status. I have pointed out many times that I, like you, get a free pass on account of the colour of my skin. You and I will never be victims of racism.

You are still a Muslim, and people will think less of you for that. Constantly claiming victimhood on behalf of other people is just as bad, like with your insistence that all Islamophobia is based on racism. You fuel the victimhood narrative despite also acknowledging it's destructive influence on your fellow Muslims. Has it never occurred to you that it might be something to do with Islam?


Quote:

For the people who have the "wrong" skin colour however, the threat is very real

So Yadda and Sprint are actually expressing racism?


Quote:

Innocent people who have nothing to do with the terrorists, have never in their lives seen the Quran as a tool of violence or oppression

No-one sees it as a tool of violence and oppression, merely a "different take" on freedom.


Quote:

Are you saying your views on Islam trumps your views on freedom?

I am saying that you are calling me a hypocrite because my actions are inconsistent with your views.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 6th, 2016 at 1:09pm: If Sprint and Yadda are the worst you have to face, you should consider yourself lucky and thank Allah you are not confronted with a psychopath who receives instructions from angels to murder you and 800 of your closest male relatives to further his quest for political power - that is what non-Muslims are confronted with every time a Muslim holds up a Koran. You are mistaking me for someone who claims victim status. I have pointed out many times that I, like you, get a free pass on account of the colour of my skin.

You are a white cultural appropriator.

Shame on you.

You are very, very lucky that you identify as Muslim and not as Mexican. You would be in BIG trouble if you put on a poncho, white boy.

But nobody dares criticise white boys who culturally appropriate the Arab Muslim.

You cultural tourist!

APPROPRIATOR!!!!

Frank wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 9:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 9:11pm: Frank wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 9:05pm: Karnal wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 1:46pm: Frank wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:41pm: mothra wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 9:40pm: Would you like me to list the Christian terrorist groups? I'm getting kinda sick of doing it but if you can't google for yourself i suppose i'll have to do it. Again. Yes, why not list the Christian terrorist organisations active in the West or in Muslim countries. Don't bother with the Africans. List the relevant ones. Why, Frank? What's the difference with an African country? Are you suggesting civil war might have something to do with it? What's the difference between a European and an African country? Yes. That’s what I asked. Do they have a different version of Christianity in Africa? Evidently.

So why did the former Anglican archbishop of Sydney unite with the African bishops to ban the hommers?

Peter Jensen’s an awful ooga-booga, eh?

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

Quote: You are mistaking me for someone who claims victim status. I have pointed out many times that I, like you, get a free pass on account of the colour of my skin. You and I will never be victims of racism. You are still a Muslim, and people will think less of you for that. Constantly claiming victimhood on behalf of other people is just as bad, like with your insistence that all Islamophobia is based on racism. You fuel the victimhood narrative despite also acknowledging it's destructive influence on your fellow Muslims. Has it never occurred to you that it might be something to do with Islam? [quote]For the people who have the "wrong" skin colour however, the threat is very real

So Yadda and Sprint are actually expressing racism?


Quote:

Innocent people who have nothing to do with the terrorists, have never in their lives seen the Quran as a tool of violence or oppression

No-one sees it as a tool of violence and oppression, merely a "different take" on freedom.


Quote:

Are you saying your views on Islam trumps your views on freedom?

I am saying that you are calling me a hypocrite because my actions are inconsistent with your views.[/quote]

Sorry, FD, are you saying your Islamophobia is not based on racism?

Please explain.

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

Constantly claiming victimhood on behalf of other people is just as bad, like with your insistence that all Islamophobia is based on racism.

Firstly, claiming victimhood on behalf of other people - who are actually victims, is not bad. Like people who get beaten up and assaulted for the crimes of others. You prefer to spinelessly apologise for it and/or pretend it doesn't happen ("errr... what calls to strip the rights of muslims?" = freediver). Which is not always how its been - you used to vigorously respond and criticise it before 2007 - do you remember that FD?

Secondly, I'm quite astonished that you seem to be acknowledging the existence of Islamophobia - or was that a slip of the tongue? If it wasn't and you do acknowledge Islamophobia exists, what would you describe it as? The word by its very definition means an irrational fear or hate, and you must be aware that no critic of Islam would accept being label "Islamophobe". So explain to me your understanding of Islamophobia FD - because you would have to be the only person I know who acknowledges Islamophobia but rejects that it is about racism.

You were using the term Islamophobia when you claimed it is always based on racism. The fact that the people you criticise don't accept the charge of Islamophobia is hardly relevant. Are you trying to backpedal on that claim?

I have no idea what it means or if there is a genuine psychiatric meaning. As far as I can tell it is used in the same way as your accusation of racism to change the topic whenever people start criticising Islam or complaining about people getting shot or blown up by terrorists.

You acknowledged the broad victimhood complex among Muslims. Do your efforts at lumping everything together as Islamophobia and racism not feed into that victimhood complex? Or were you merely offering an informed medical opinion?

Do you want to answer my question too, FD?

Cheers.

freediver wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 8:42am:

I have no idea what it means or if there is a genuine psychiatric meaning.

Ah - so you have no idea what it means, but you are certain its not about racism?


freediver wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 8:42am:

your efforts at lumping everything together as Islamophobia and racism

...is your invention.

So you don't think you are feeding into the Islamic victimhood complex with this nonsense?


Quote:

Ah - so you have no idea what it means, but you are certain its not about racism?

I am certain that Islamophobia is not always caused by racism, as you claim.

freediver wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:15am:

So you don't think you are feeding into the Islamic victimhood complex with this nonsense? Quote: Ah - so you have no idea what it means, but you are certain its not about racism? I am certain that Islamophobia is not always caused by racism, as you claim.

So am I, FD. Would you care to comment on your own?

freediver wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:15am:

I am certain that Islamophobia is not always caused by racism

So I guess we'll discard your previous statement that you "have no idea what it means" then.

Would you care to backpeddle a little further and offer an opinion on what you else, besides racism, it can be caused by? Would you accept bigotry or ignorance? As long as we're not using the "R" word?

I think it is caused by Muslims blowing people up in the street.

don't be shy FD, you are "certain that Islamophobia is not always caused by racism". Don't leave us hanging, apparently you think its sometimes caused by racism - what else?

Is it sometimes racism and sometimes spineless apologetics for muslim atrocities?

Muslims blowing people up in the street.

You must have missed that one Gandalf.

Is it sometimes racism and sometimes spineless apologetics for muslim atrocities?

You must have missed that one FD.

I don't see how spineless apologetics causes Islamophobia, but you are welcome to try to convince me.

sorry FD, isn't Islamophobia invoked "whenever people start criticising Islam or complaining about people getting shot or blown up by terrorists"?

Thats what I mean by spineless apologetics.

freediver wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:37am:

I think it is caused by Muslims blowing people up in the street.

Decent white people, you mean?

Karnal wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 3:37pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 11:37am: I think it is caused by Muslims blowing people up in the street. Decent white people, you mean?

No babe. Most muslims are being killed by muslims.

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 3:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 11:37am: I think it is caused by Muslims blowing people up in the street. Decent white people, you mean? No babe. Most muslims are being killed by muslims.

shhh - don't tell FD that.