As a great many of you will well know, educational descrimination is a major problem in Australia. In fact, some of us would argue that it’s the worst problem gripping our society.

Educational descrimination is a “core” problem that causes or significantly contributes to many other major issues in our society such as poor quality of life, depression, unemployment, unfillable job vacancies, lengthy health care wait times, government debt, strain on many industries (not the least of which upon the education industry) and quite likely even suicides by people severely effected by one or more of these issues.

Sadly, this is an issue that gets nowhere near the attention it deserves, especially not by the government - regardless of which party’s in power.

This is an issue that is very dear to my heart, as it is undoubtedly dear to many others, too. And I am tired of fronting up to the ballot box every couple of years and knowing that my vote will do nothing to combat educational descrimination – because none of the major parties are offering any significant commitment towards promoting educational equality.

It’s time we all let the major parties know that this is an extremely important issue and they need to make a serious commitment towards an educationally equal Australia! With that in mind, I urge each and every one of you to visit this petition on change.org, and hopefully sign it: (copy & paste into the address bar of your browser)

change.org/p/minister-for-employment-michaelia-cash-liberal-party-get-the-parties-to-commit-to-real-action-on-educational-equality-before-the-election?recruiter=217814541&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

Please, forward this link on to anyone you know who cares about this issue.


We all deserve a country that is worth living in. The road to that country is educational equality!   

Please define 'equality' in the context of receiving education.  This appears to be a complex issue, and one beset by several ideologies.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 5:32pm:

Please define 'equality' in the context of receiving education.  This appears to be a complex issue, and one best by several ideologies.

whist you are at it..

what is the discrimination you are referring too?..

I like to know what we have been either going without or fighting against...

its hard to tell sometimes.. ::) ::)

Well, like any other form of discrimination, educational discrimination deprives  people of many job opportunities (as well as other lifestyle opportunities) if certain aspects of themselves are deemed undesirable. In this particular case, the aspect in question is the amount of education/training/experience the people in question do or don't have.

For example, there are many jobs out there that people are legally forbidden to do, unless they have a certain degree/qualification. Even when there are no legal obstructions to hiring an uneducated worker, many, many companies out there nonetheless discriminate against people who don't have a certain level of education/skills/experience when searching for prospective employees to fill their job vacancies. In fact, these problems are so severe that many companies have taken to importing foreigners to fill their job vacancies when there are plenty of unemployed Australian citizens right here who would be willing to give those same jobs a go.

It is also causes a devestating level of deprivation to the companies themselves, the other employees who would otherwise have been coworkers of these snubbed uneducated workers, the friends and relatives of said workers, and to the general community who would have been the consumers and witnesses of the services provided by these uneducated workers. Uneducated workers are prone to doing their jobs in more interesting, amusing ways then competent workers. Their work styles offer their companies and communities hilarious incidents and statements the likes of which competent workers rarely, if ever, offer. This is a crucial benefit that educational discrimination has long denied us all, as a community that offers no enjoyment to its residants has a very poor effect on those residants' quality of life, and this problem can in turn compound other social problems such as depression, bitterness, alcoholism, suicide, ect.

@The_Grappler, you asked about how this problem specifically effects people's ability to receive education. I'm not sure if you misunderstood the issue I'm trying to address, or whether you have a special interest in that specific aspect of educational discrimination. But to answer your question, educational discrimination is present even when seeking an education. There are, unfortunately, many college courses which students are denied access to unless they have HSC marks of a certain level. Going back to my highschool days, I can remember many of my classmates stressing about how the colleges wouldn't let them have the educational opportunities they desired unless their final HSC marks were of a certain level. It made for some immensely stressful waits during those 3 months between the exams and receiving their results and, in the more unhappy cases, some real devastating heartbreak when those results were received. That stress is both unnecessary and wrong, as is the denial to good, decent people of the education they apparently want.

So what is the answer?  The yardsticks by which various universities make their cuts are there for reasons - if not necessarily for all the right reasons - and there is the very distinct possibility, perhaps even probability, that the genuine best are not getting through for ]various reasons.  You need only look at our current crop of educated politicians etc to see that education per se is not necessarily the yardstick by which to judge, or simply to review carefully the often very dire outcomes for many from too much emphasis on the opinions of 'experts', so classified by their 'education'.

Unequal opportunity to gain an education can be the result of money, influence and so forth, so perhaps that is an area that can be looked at.

We live in a society nowadays which, in my view, lacks the essential components of genuine leadership, and thus in which many are incorrectly promoted on often incorrect assumptions.  Fer Shaitan's Sake, you can even do a paid course now to give you the INTERVIEW skills to get into the armed forces, a far cry from the days when the interviewing officers actually KNEW people and could read their skills etc.  It is a terrible worry when those who can achieve (rather than attain) by rote study have a better chance to get in to anything than someone who is talented by nature, and attains without trumpets.

We also suffer the delusions of affirmative action, an apparently never-ending expectation on the part of those receiving it that it will simply go on forever, and is somehow the 'normal' way of things - to the utter detriment of many in 'other' social groups.

All this kind of 'dilutionism' of real and solid standards has generated a society in which, as before the very best often do NOT get positions, and there is nowadays a total over-reliance on paper qualification rather than skills acquired and developed.  That is one reason companies can get around restrictions on importing offshore people.

I think you will need to be very explicit with your subject matter here.

WHO is being discriminated against?  How is requiring a standard in exams discrimination in allocating positions of study?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm:

So what is the answer?  The yardsticks by which various universities make their cuts are there for reasons - if not necessarily for all the right reasons - and there is the very distinct possibility, perhaps even probability, that the genuine best are not getting through for ]various reasons.  You need only look at our current crop of educated politicians etc to see that education per se is not necessarily the yardstick by which to judge, or simply to review carefully the often very dire outcomes for many from too much emphasis on the opinions of 'experts', so classified by their 'education'. Unequal opportunity to gain an education can be the result of money, influence and so forth, so perhaps that is an area that can be looked at. We live in a society nowadays which, in my view, lacks the essential components of genuine leadership, and thus in which many are incorrectly promoted on often incorrect assumptions.  Fer Shaitan's Sake, you can even do a paid course now to give you the INTERVIEW skills to get into the armed forces, a far cry from the days when the interviewing officers actually KNEW people and could read their skills etc.  It is a terrible worry when those who can achieve (rather than attain) by rote study have a better chance to get in to anything than someone who is talented by nature, and attains without trumpets. We also suffer the delusions of affirmative action, an apparently never-ending expectation on the part of those receiving it that it will simply go on forever, and is somehow the 'normal' way of things - to the utter detriment of many in 'other' social groups. All this kind of 'dilutionism' of real and solid standards has generated a society in which, as before the very best often do NOT get positions, and there is nowadays a total over-reliance on paper qualification rather than skills acquired and developed.  That is one reason companies can get around restrictions on importing offshore people. I think you will need to be very explicit with your subject matter here. WHO is being discriminated against?  How is requiring a standard in exams discrimination in allocating positions of study?

The people being descriminated against are the uneducated/unqualified/unskilled people who want jobs/careers that they are currantly denied because the laws and prevailing educational discriminatory culture won't give them the same opportunities it gives to workers with education/qualifications/experience.

What's the answer? Well first and foremost we need to do away with the laws that prevent people from getting certain jobs if they don't have certain education/degrees/qualifications/training. Then, after that we need to start looking at tackling the descriminatory culture that exists within the workforce. I'm not saying that it will be easy or instantaneous, but we have made significant strides against racial and sexual descrimination (compared to where we were in the 1950s, anyway), we have newly begun tackling age discrimination (in terms of workforce participation), and there are constant efforts to get the message across that disabled workers can be just as much of a boon to the team as a worker who isn't disabled. So, without making a bloated post that goes into unnessesary detail, I think that these wars on descrimination and aversion serve as good models for a long-term plan for promoting educational equality in Australia.

Quote:

Well first and foremost we need to do away with the laws that prevent people from getting certain jobs if they don't have certain education/degrees/qualifications/training.

So....people who do not have 'certain' qualifications can start their own, for example, medical practice...........etc etc etc.............*rinse and repeat.*

I see a number of problems with this so-called education equality. For a start, it sounds like sophistry to create another mythical underclass in the collective mind of the public.

We live in an increasingly regulated and technical society. To suggest that anyone should be allowed to have a go at anything has a marvelous egalitarian ring, but insurance and litigation will not be so kind.

There is also the suggestion that college education should be open without qualifying. If I were a teacher, I would not want to have to deal with people who have not been prepared for the level of tuition I was expected to teach, especially if I am to be held accountable for the success rate.

Is discrimination the same as "descrimination"? Methinks the author of this OP needs educational equality.

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 8:41pm:

So....people who do not have 'certain' qualifications can start their own, for example, medical practice...........etc etc etc.............*rinse and repeat.*

Yes, thank you for bringing this up, Aussie, as this is a very important aspect of educational descrimination and also a particular area of the problem that I care deeply about.

Because the health system plays such an important role in our lives, it's extremely important that all Australians should be able to access health care by incompetant doctors & nurses. Don't get me wrong, many of our currant crop of educated health care workers are indeed kind, caring people. But seldom do they make our medical situations enjoyable spectacles for those who are watching (typically our friends & families), and the currant health care system lets us down especially in this regard with our deaths. For many of us, not all but many, our deaths will take place in a hospital (or other healthcare facility) and be presided over by a doctor and/or nurse. That's why this issue is of such crucial importance because whether or not the doctor/nurse is prone to cause funny incidents as they work essentially dictates how our deaths under them will play out. For a great many of us the question of whether the last thing we ever do (die) will distress/upset our friends & families, or make the laugh & smile, depends on whether or not the health system deals us a doctor who is unqualified enough to make the incident hilarious.

As if that weren't reason enough to demand stronger action against educational descrimination, there it also the matter of the significant lack of doctors in our medical system. For a lot of people this means that there simply aren't any doctors available to them within their community. Other people who are in need of a new doctor might find that no doctors in their area are accepting new patients because they already too overbooked (this is a problem I've struck personally). The doctor shortage also creates excessive wait times for important medical treatments - again, a problem I've encountered personally and at times been left in pain by.

There are likely many causes for these doctor shortages, but undoubtedly one of the biggest would have to be educational descrimination; the government won't let people be doctors until they've gone through several years of med school - meaning that we have heaps of people who actually aspire to give us medical treatment in Australia right now, and yet we are going to have to wait years until they are legally able to treat us! To say nothing about the many Australians who wish to become doctors/nurses, but have no interest in being educated, or can't afford it.

And of course, the pressures on the health system that come from understaffing are only further aggrivated by the fact that the law denies us access to many of the medicines we need, unless we first get a perscription from a doctor. This, too is a form of educational descrimination as it denies all of us the right to the medicines we want if we don't have the qualifications that make us legally doctors. This means that patients who know what medicine they need can't simply walk in to a pharmacist and buy it, they need to first make an appointment with a doctor, which can sometimes mean a wait of several days, perhaps even weeks, and then waste the doctor's precious time by making the doctor needlessly fill out the name of a medication that the patient already knew, on a special slip! We've excessively turned one of our most over-demanded occupations into pointless beaurocrat paper-pushers! Once again, this is a situation that I've struck too many times to count! In fact, I would dare say that out of my last 30 visits to my GP, only one of those appointments was because I actually needed the doctors services! Every other medical situation I had, I already knew which medicine I wanted before I even made an appointment to see him. Unfortunately, the law demanded that I waste his time and get him to fill out a perscription before I was able to get that medicine! In one particular incident, I was in considerable pain while I waited for my appointment time to roll around, just so I could get meds that I'd already identified via Wikipedia as what I needed!

issuevoter wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 10:19pm:

I see a number of problems with this so-called education equality. For a start, it sounds like sophistry to create another mythical underclass in the collective mind of the public.

If only that were true. The people who have to suffer this oppression are very real, not mythical. I'd wager that pretty much every street in the country has at least a half dozen people who were denied the jobs/careers they dreamed of because the "weren't smart" to legally obtain them.


issuevoter wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 10:19pm:

We live in an increasingly regulated and technical society. To suggest that anyone should be allowed to have a go at anything has a marvelous egalitarian ring, but insurance and litigation will not be so kind.

Well the solution to that is clear: we need to do away with the currant lawsuit system (for any incident that is accidental) and replace the payouts that people would've recieved under this system with a new system of government payouts, thereby allowing the community (taxpayers) to support their inconvienienced/injured neighbors in their hours of need. Frankly, it would be one of the few ventures that our tax dollars are spent on that would actually be worthwhile.


issuevoter wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 10:19pm:

There is also the suggestion that college education should be open without qualifying. If I were a teacher, I would not want to have to deal with people who have not been prepared for the level of tuition I was expected to teach, especially if I am to be held accountable for the success rate.

Then maybe we should stop holding you responsible for the success rate? Maybe we shouldn't even focus on so-called "success rates" and just let the students decide if listening to you was a fulfilling/enriching experience?

And if you don't want "deal with people who have not been prepared for the level of tuition you were expected to teach", that's fine. But wouldn't it be more agreeable to deal with people who are in your class because they are actually interested in learning what you have to say, even if they are slow, as opposed to people who don't really give a stuff about what you have to say, but are basically forced to sit in your lecture hall and listen to you yammer on for several years, because the powers that be won't give them a piece of paper they need unless they sit through all that?

I'd wager that the biggest source of grief amongst teachers (aside from the beaurocracy that manages them), are not the students who have trouble learning, it's the ones that don't want to learn.

Svengali wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 11:56pm:

Is discrimination the same as "descrimination"? Methinks the author of this OP needs educational equality.

We all do, brother. We all do.  :)

The cream must always be supported to the max.

our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream.

we dont send all the fat kids to the institute of sport because of some bizarre notion of "sporting equality".

i would advocate identifying the bill gates, steve jobs and mark zuckerburgs at an early age and , far from wasting resources on the dummies, i would pour the resources into this, our most precious commodity, our cream.

identify the best and give them the best...this is how greatness is achieved.

the good is the enemy of the great

What drivel. I classify myself as highly educated, but even I know there are some things I shouldn't do because I haven't been taught.

E.g. I teach pharmacology to nurses, but I can't give an IV drip to a patient, why because I haven't been taught.


To me, this sounds like the jealous ravings of a person who was too dumb to get any sort of qualification in life and looks at the rest of us in envy.

omerox wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 4:55pm:

As a great many of you will well know, educational descrimination is a major problem in Australia. In fact, some of us would argue that it’s the worst problem gripping our society.

Who is not allowed to go to school, Omerox? Who is discriminated against?

I'm curious.

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 9:02am:

The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream.

You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools?

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 12:01pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:02am: The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream. You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools?

Isn't this exactly the same education recruitment philosophy ISIS uses?

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 12:01pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:02am: The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream. You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools?

The richest parents  could spend their money on rolexes, yachts and mistresses....this contributes nothing to the herd.
The richest parents could spend their money on helping the cream become truly great and thus elevating us all....this contributes a great deal to the herd.


the "limiting belief" of many poor people (and it is a doozy) is that  there is a limit on success (untrue , it is an unlimited resource).
In fact, the absolute best thing that can happen for poorer people is that rich people become very succesful, entrepreneurial, dynamic and influential and then the success can be shared around.

i would call on poor people to go to the graduation ceremonies at rich private schools and cheer like mad.
they too are part of this success.

we all will cheer at the olympics, despite the fact few of us will be at this level.

we should be proud of our cream
our cream are our greatest asset.  even more so outside the sporting arena

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 12:08pm:

Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 12:01pm: aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:02am: The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream. You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools? The richest parents  could spend their money on rolexes, yachts and mistresses....this contributes nothing to the herd. The richest parents could spend their money on helping the cream become truly great and thus elevating us all....this contributes a great deal to the herd. the "limiting belief" of many poor people (and it is a doozy) is that  there is a limit on success (untrue , it is an unlimited resource).

"Success" might be unlimited, Aquascoot, but wealth is not. Finance is limited. Domestic markets are limited. Wages are limited. The biggest sectors of our economy at present - housing finance and property construction - are limited.

Banks are limited to credit ratings and collateral. Land supply is limited. Property development is limited by local government. We are all limited by our access to space, if not time.

Economic growth in Australia is currently driven by one thing: immigration. Even if we massively expanded our migrant intake, we would be limited by access to services, employment, infrastructure. These are all finite. We do not have unlimited access to doctors or jobs or roads.

Cities struggle under their limitations. A city like Kolkata might well be a great place to live if it wasn't for the millions of Bangladeshi refugees it received in the 1970s and 80s and never properly integrated. A city like Manila might be a tidy town of air conditioned shopping malls if it wasn't for the tent cities of families living under the expressways, made homeless by typhoons and natural disasters. Wars and disasters might provide a source of infinite possibility with all that cheap labour, but they also place limits on health care, housing and public space.

Success might be unlimited, Aquascoot, but this depends on your criteria for success. Capital, infrastructure and labour have very fixed limits.

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 12:36pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 12:08pm: Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 12:01pm: aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:02am: The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream. You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools? The richest parents  could spend their money on rolexes, yachts and mistresses....this contributes nothing to the herd. The richest parents could spend their money on helping the cream become truly great and thus elevating us all....this contributes a great deal to the herd. the "limiting belief" of many poor people (and it is a doozy) is that  there is a limit on success (untrue , it is an unlimited resource). "Success" might be unlimited, Aquascoot, but wealth is not. Finance is limited. Domestic markets are limited. Wages are limited. The biggest sectors of our economy at present - housing finance and property construction - are limited. Banks are limited to credit ratings and collateral. Land supply is limited. Property development is limited by local government. We are all limited by our access to space, if not time. Economic growth in Australia is currently driven by one thing: immigration. Even if we massively expanded our migrant intake, we would be limited by access to services, employment, infrastructure. These are all finite. We do not have unlimited access to doctors or jobs or roads. Cities struggle under their limitations. A city like Kolkata might well be a great place to live if it wasn't for the millions of Bangladeshi refugees it received in the 1970s and 80s and never properly integrated. A city like Manila might be a tidy town of air conditioned shopping malls if it wasn't for the tent cities of families living under the expressways, made homeless by typhoons and natural disasters. Wars and disasters might provide a source of infinite possibility with all that cheap labour, but they also place limits on health care, housing and public space. Success might be unlimited, Aquascoot, but this depends on your criteria for success. Capital, infrastructure and labour have very fixed limits.

Education is the best thing to lift people out of poverty.
Smart rich people can give their children advantages in terms of buying them a house, buying them a pony, giving them seeding capital to start a business.

But the education system is already incredibly fair.
There is absolutley nothing stopping a kid from a public school in a poor area getting into university and studying in any faculty.
And there are plenty of rich kids in private schools who end up at rehab centres and not university.

Education is the great leveller.

If you are the cream (smart and with the RIGHT ATTITUDE) then you can and will succeed in australia.

Intelligence would be fairly evenly distributed.
If smart kids from poorer schools arent doing well, this is the fault of the belief systems they are experiencing at home and nothing to do with funding.

our system is so fair, no one should complain about unfairness in the health or education system,

if they do, maybe they should have a little holiday and check out the USA or go speak to those of the "untouchable" class in india.

No.

If you are being educated in australia and you want to blame the "system" for your failure

you have....

Messed up.


you dont need to change countries  ;) ;)

Ask all those asian kids from poor public schools who are now doctors and accountants

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 12:08pm:

Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 12:01pm: aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:02am: The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream. You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools? The richest parents  could spend their money on rolexes, yachts and mistresses....this contributes nothing to the herd. The richest parents could spend their money on helping the cream become truly great and thus elevating us all....this contributes a great deal to the herd. the "limiting belief" of many poor people (and it is a doozy) is that  there is a limit on success (untrue , it is an unlimited resource). In fact, the absolute best thing that can happen for poorer people is that rich people become very succesful, entrepreneurial, dynamic and influential and then the success can be shared around. i would call on poor people to go to the graduation ceremonies at rich private schools and cheer like mad. they too are part of this success. we all will cheer at the olympics, despite the fact few of us will be at this level. we should be proud of our cream our cream are our greatest asset.  even more so outside the sporting arena

Bloody Communist....... I won't be watching the Olympics.....

Friend of mine once wondered at the relative success of the Special Air Service Regiment in Vietnam - my response was that it functioned so well because of the base of solid support provided by every other troop there.

There is a lesson there for all.....

Bloody Communists.....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 2:53pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 12:08pm: Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 12:01pm: aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:02am: The cream must always be supported to the max. our elite athletes are whisked away to the australian institute of sport and given the very best of nutrition, care, training etc. this is the correct way to treat cream. You mean instead of the richest parents just sending their kids to the best schools? The richest parents  could spend their money on rolexes, yachts and mistresses....this contributes nothing to the herd. The richest parents could spend their money on helping the cream become truly great and thus elevating us all....this contributes a great deal to the herd. the "limiting belief" of many poor people (and it is a doozy) is that  there is a limit on success (untrue , it is an unlimited resource). In fact, the absolute best thing that can happen for poorer people is that rich people become very succesful, entrepreneurial, dynamic and influential and then the success can be shared around. i would call on poor people to go to the graduation ceremonies at rich private schools and cheer like mad. they too are part of this success. we all will cheer at the olympics, despite the fact few of us will be at this level. we should be proud of our cream our cream are our greatest asset.  even more so outside the sporting arena Bloody Communist....... I won't be watching the Olympics..... Friend of mine once wondered at the relative success of the Special Air Service Regiment in Vietnam - my response was that it functioned so well because of the base of solid support provided by every other troop there. There is a lesson there for all..... Bloody Communists.....

pure cream...the SAS...and we RIGHTLY give the cream the very best equipment and the best training, even though they would still be effective with a butter knife and a 303.

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 1:21pm:

Education is the best thing to lift people out of poverty.

Unfortunately that is just a pipe dream, only the breeding of high IQ persons with other high IQ persons can lead us out of poverty, you cannot make a stupid person smart any more than you can make a short person tall, currently more than half of the worlds population wants to revert back to the law of the jungle, this is staggering in the year 2016 with all we know.

The meek won't inherit the Earth, Dumbf$%ks will inherit the Earth, and that is because we have reached an imbalance whereby the smart realise that to breed will just leave those offspring to the mercy of dumbf#$ks so why bother.  :(

innocentbystander. wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 3:59pm:

only the breeding of high IQ persons with other high IQ persons can lead us out of poverty, you cannot make a stupid person smart any more than you can make a short person tall,

Guess that counts you out.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 4:13pm:

innocentbystander. wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 3:59pm: only the breeding of high IQ persons with other high IQ persons can lead us out of poverty, you cannot make a stupid person smart any more than you can make a short person tall,  Guess that counts you out.

Indeed it does for I cannot make a short person tall.  :)

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 1:21pm:

Education is the best thing to lift people out of poverty.

I don't want to insult anybody's life choices here. For reasons I don't and probably never will understand, some people do like education and I don't want to disrespect this passion if I can possibly avoid doing so.

That being said, while education may be "the best thing to lift people out of poverty" under our currant societal framework, my experience has shown that it is all but useless at lifting people out of boredom and misery. And if people's levels of happiness aren't sufficient enough to make their lives worth prolonging, then what good is the financial security that actually allows them to prolong it?

That's why increasing the level of incompetance in our society is such a crucial issue.



Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 11:58am:

Who is not allowed to go to school, Omerox? Who is discriminated against? I'm curious.

As I previously explained, the people who aren't allowed to go to college (at least not in the capacity they would like) are the ones who haven't studied certain subjects or haven't gotten high enough marks on their HSCs.

But I am attempting to address the broader issue of anyone who isn't permitted to do something they want, either by law or industrial prejudice, because they "aren't educated enough."


Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 9:53am:

I classify myself as highly educated, but even I know there are some things I shouldn't do because I haven't been taught. E.g. I teach pharmacology to nurses, but I can't give an IV drip to a patient, why because I haven't been taught.

I'm sorry to hear that the prejudices & "you can't do it" negativity of our society have talked you in to believing that you are so incapable, Bojack Horseman. There's no big deal about sticking a needle in someone, so long as you have the stomach for it (I freely admit that I don't). You just jam it in. Hell, even junkies stoned off their coconuts can master it.



Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 9:53am:

To me, this sounds like the jealous ravings of a person who was too dumb to get any sort of qualification in life and looks at the rest of us in envy.

I can honestly say that I'm not jealous of anyone I know of who is significantly educated. I don't know a single one of them who has a life worth having. That being said, I am, like most uneducated people, oppressed and I live in a country where my fellow unqualified brothers and sisters are not aloud to shine, and personally I am fed up with it.

omerox wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 5:10pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:53am: I classify myself as highly educated, but even I know there are some things I shouldn't do because I haven't been taught. E.g. I teach pharmacology to nurses, but I can't give an IV drip to a patient, why because I haven't been taught. I'm sorry to hear that the prejudices & "you can't do it" negativity of our society have talked you in to believing that you are so incapable, Bojack Horseman. There's no big deal about sticking a needle in someone, so long as you have the stomach for it (I freely admit that I don't). You just jam it in. Hell, even junkies stoned off their coconuts can master it. Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 9:53am: To me, this sounds like the jealous ravings of a person who was too dumb to get any sort of qualification in life and looks at the rest of us in envy. I can honestly say that I'm not jealous of anyone I know of who is significantly educated. I don't know a single one of them who has a life worth having. That being said, I am, like most uneducated people, oppressed and I live in a country where my fellow unqualified brothers and sisters are not aloud to shine, and personally I am fed up with it.

Ummm do it without causing significant issues to the patient.

Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger.

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 1:21pm:

If you are the cream (smart and with the RIGHT ATTITUDE) then you can and will succeed in australia.

You're forgetting one thing, Aquascoot.

Fate. Some people just have very poor luck.

Believe it or not, luck is finite too. The belief that your create your own destiny through hard work and the right decisions is a little overstated.

Anyone who's made it will tell you this.

omerox wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 5:10pm:

As I previously explained, the people who aren't allowed to go to college (at least not in the capacity they would like) are the ones who haven't studied certain subjects or haven't gotten high enough marks on their HSCs.

You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23.

All I did was send a letter.

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 5:26pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 1:21pm: If you are the cream (smart and with the RIGHT ATTITUDE) then you can and will succeed in australia. You're forgetting one thing, Aquascoot. Fate. Some people just have very poor luck. Believe it or not, luck is finite too. The belief that your create your own destiny through hard work and the right decisions is a little overstated. Anyone who's made it will tell you this.

the harder you work, the luckier you get  ;)

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger.

And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish.

I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults.

I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for.

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 5:28pm:

You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter.

Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses.

omerox wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:19pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:17pm: Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger. And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish. I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults. I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for. Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:28pm: You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter. Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses.

good grief omerox, if you dont want to be educated there is still plenty of meaningful work for the unqualified.
i have a 73 yo neighbour who runs cattle . his wife recently died.
he had a woman from the corporate world trying to "find herself" helping him out, but she's gone back to perth.
so, theres a vacancy.
$350 a week, free board, free food, free use of a car. living in an idyllic old homestead and all you have to do is wander round on a quad bike and try not to get bitten by a brownsnake.
i could hook people up with dozens of these jobs.
I have no idea why people work from dawn to dusk in the city to go home to a dingey squat and eat bread and water.
youre not a tree....move  ;)

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:42pm:

omerox wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:19pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:17pm: Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger. And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish. I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults. I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for. Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:28pm: You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter. Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses. good grief omerox, if you dont want to be educated there is still plenty of meaningful work for the unqualified. i have a 73 yo neighbour who runs cattle . his wife recently died. he had a woman from the corporate world trying to "find herself" helping him out, but she's gone back to perth. so, theres a vacancy. $350 a week, free board, free food, free use of a car. living in an idyllic old homestead and all you have to do is wander round on a quad bike and try not to get bitten by a brownsnake. i could hook people up with dozens of these jobs. I have no idea why people work from dawn to dusk in the city to go home to a dingey squat and eat bread and water. youre not a tree....move  ;)

Aquascoot's a homosexual matchmaker? Aquascoot is also implicated in attempt to rip off worker with insufficient wages.

The minimum wage would require your widower to pay $ 656.90 per week; not $ 350. No wonder he can't find a worker. Aquascoot is pocketing the $300+ difference.

Svengali wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:45pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:42pm: omerox wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:19pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:17pm: Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger. And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish. I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults. I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for. Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:28pm: You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter. Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses. good grief omerox, if you dont want to be educated there is still plenty of meaningful work for the unqualified. i have a 73 yo neighbour who runs cattle . his wife recently died. he had a woman from the corporate world trying to "find herself" helping him out, but she's gone back to perth. so, theres a vacancy. $350 a week, free board, free food, free use of a car. living in an idyllic old homestead and all you have to do is wander round on a quad bike and try not to get bitten by a brownsnake. i could hook people up with dozens of these jobs. I have no idea why people work from dawn to dusk in the city to go home to a dingey squat and eat bread and water. youre not a tree....move  ;) Aquascoot's a homosexual matchmaker? Aquascoot is also implicated in attempt to rip off worker with insufficient wages. The minimum wage would require your widower to pay over $ 600 per week; not $ 350. No wonder he can't find a worker.

you are too focused on money.
you need to approach things more from a sense of "contribution" ;)

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:49pm:

Svengali wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:45pm: aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:42pm: omerox wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:19pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:17pm: Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger. And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish. I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults. I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for. Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:28pm: You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter. Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses. good grief omerox, if you dont want to be educated there is still plenty of meaningful work for the unqualified. i have a 73 yo neighbour who runs cattle . his wife recently died. he had a woman from the corporate world trying to "find herself" helping him out, but she's gone back to perth. so, theres a vacancy. $350 a week, free board, free food, free use of a car. living in an idyllic old homestead and all you have to do is wander round on a quad bike and try not to get bitten by a brownsnake. i could hook people up with dozens of these jobs. I have no idea why people work from dawn to dusk in the city to go home to a dingey squat and eat bread and water. youre not a tree....move  ;) Aquascoot's a homosexual matchmaker? Aquascoot is also implicated in attempt to rip off worker with insufficient wages. The minimum wage would require your widower to pay over $ 600 per week; not $ 350. No wonder he can't find a worker. you are too focused on money. you need to approach things more from a sense of "contribution" ;)

Aquascoot needs to spend some time in jail for ripping off workers by paying below minimum wage.

Svengali wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:51pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:49pm: Svengali wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:45pm: aquascoot wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:42pm: omerox wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:19pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:17pm: Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger. And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish. I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults. I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for. Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:28pm: You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter. Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses. good grief omerox, if you dont want to be educated there is still plenty of meaningful work for the unqualified. i have a 73 yo neighbour who runs cattle . his wife recently died. he had a woman from the corporate world trying to "find herself" helping him out, but she's gone back to perth. so, theres a vacancy. $350 a week, free board, free food, free use of a car. living in an idyllic old homestead and all you have to do is wander round on a quad bike and try not to get bitten by a brownsnake. i could hook people up with dozens of these jobs. I have no idea why people work from dawn to dusk in the city to go home to a dingey squat and eat bread and water. youre not a tree....move  ;) Aquascoot's a homosexual matchmaker? Aquascoot is also implicated in attempt to rip off worker with insufficient wages. The minimum wage would require your widower to pay over $ 600 per week; not $ 350. No wonder he can't find a worker. you are too focused on money. you need to approach things more from a sense of "contribution" ;) Aquascoot needs to spend some time in jail for ripping off workers by paying below minimum wage.

what is this minimum wage of which you speak?
the wage scale is a ladder .
you start at the bottom and , as you become more valuable, you climb the ladder.
surely pointing out such an obvious fact would not result in jail time  ;)

omerox wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:19pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:17pm: Lol, so get off your ass and get an education you lazy bugger. And then, in what sense would I be incompetant? Australia is already inundated with competant workers and a severe lack of incompetant ones. I have no desire to add to this problem and I very dearly wish to live in a community where it isn't so bad; where my incompetent friends, family, coworkers, aquaintances & neighbors are able to flourish. I'd really hoped to keep this conversation civil and while we seem to disagree over this issue, for some reason your trying to degrade this conversation with insults. I am not lazy. I have no aversion to working, but only if it is towards a goal worth working for. Injected another educated brainiac into a country & world that is already inundated with such people is not a goal worth pursuing. I would go so far to say that it is a goal worth avoiding at any cost. If you love educated/qualified/trained people so much, then good for you! Your probably already surrounded by them. But the people who prefer the company of unqualified people aren't so lucky. It's those people who I fight for. It's those people who I will work for. That is a cause worth working for. Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 5:28pm: You can in Australia. I didn't do my HSC. I applied to go to uni as a mature-aged student when I was 23. All I did was send a letter. Hmm. Maybe the system's changed? That was not my experience when I was in highschool. A lot of my classmates got really stressed out about whether their results would be good enough to let them get in to the college courses they wanted and I remember the teachers spending a lot of time yammering on to us about the marks we needed to get to access certain courses.

So I'm guessing you got a star in your HSC? 

Sorry just my private school elitism....oh wait I went to public schools. I just worked.

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:56pm:

what is this minimum wage of which you speak? the wage scale is a ladder . you start at the bottom and , as you become more valuable, you climb the ladder. surely pointing out such an obvious fact would not result in jail time  ;)

Trouble with that analogy is that all the lowest steps of the ladder must be able to support a person or nobody gets to climb... ever.....  8-)

That's why there is a wage scale.... though I note the Gauleiter Morrison is seeking to break it down with 'internships' paid at unemployment benefit rate + $200 a fortnight... about $230 a week... or $6 an hour (now we get the picture behind the figures)... hardly enough to feed a cage of pet mice...

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:42pm:

good grief omerox, if you dont want to be educated there is still plenty of meaningful work for the unqualified.i have a 73 yo neighbour who runs cattle . his wife recently died.he had a woman from the corporate world trying to "find herself" helping him out, but she's gone back to perth.so, theres a vacancy.$350 a week, free board, free food, free use of a car. living in an idyllic old homestead and all you have to do is wander round on a quad bike and try not to get bitten by a brownsnake.i could hook people up with dozens of these jobs.I have no idea why people work from dawn to dusk in the city to go home to a dingey squat and eat bread and water.youre not a tree....move  :)

I think you are missing the point here.

I never said that unqualified people can't get jobs. The whole issue here is that they can't get a lot of particular jobs, jobs that it might well be their dream to have. They are unfairly denied a great many opportunities that are offered to educated people. That is the issue at hand - that is the issue that we need to correct.

Okay, so there's plenty of farm work available for unqualified workers - well that's great for all the people whose life ambition is to be a farmer, but that life isn't for everyone.


Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 10:46pm:

So I'm guessing you got a star in your HSC?

No idea. Never opened the envelope.


aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2016 at 7:49pm:

you are too focused on money. you need to approach things more from a sense of "contribution" ;)

Now this I agree with!

This thread seems to have drifted a bit away from its intended purpose, so I'll attempt now to get it back on track.

Once again, I'd like to let everybody know about a petition that calls on the 3 big parties (coalition, labor & greens) to make a significant commitment towards legalizing and encouraging educational equality part of their campaigns for the upcoming election.

Here is the URL(copy & paste it in to your browser's address bar):

change.org/p/minister-for-employment-michaelia-cash-liberal-party-get-the-parties-to-commit-to-real-action-on-educational-equality-before-the-election?recruiter=217814541&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

Please, don't keep this to yourself, let anybody and everybody you know, who might want to see a more educationally equal future, know about this petition, so we can all work together to make this dream a reality!