Just been reading about disappointing results of some of the big US retailers and one of the causes is of course online.

I just wonder if people stop to think who provides the thousands of jobs. It's not the online retailers. They are unbelievably automated and getting more so by the day. It's the brick & mortar stores.

It's the young people particularly who flock to online and it's the same young people who suffer the highest rates of unemployment.

That's what's the mystery for me.

no mystery ... unemployed have no (or little) money, they have no choice but to look for the cheapest product from wherever they can get it.

bogarde73 wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 9:01am:

Just been reading about disappointing results of some of the big US retailers and one of the causes is of course online. I just wonder if people stop to think who provides the thousands of jobs. It's not the online retailers. They are unbelievably automated and getting more so by the day. It's the brick & mortar stores. It's the young people particularly who flock to online and it's the same young people who suffer the highest rates of unemployment. That's what's the mystery for me.

The on-line market is much more competitive and prices are better.

The Chinese are dominating the on-line market and USA retailers are starting to realize that they need exposure in the international market.

Australian businesses will be frozen out of the on-line retail market, except for those in the delivery chain.

John Smith wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 9:03am:

no mystery ... unemployed have no (or little) money, they have no choice but to look for the cheapest product from wherever they can get it.

Correct... what bogarde is describing is the downward spiral of the West from its cutting its own throat in terms of employment and wages.  Wonder how many of those business council fools actually realise that by chopping away at wages they are bringing about their own demise in the same global market they demand the workers compete in.....

Makes you wonder how such fools ever get a job.... but typical of 'management' these days....no real idea at all.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:33am:

John Smith wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 9:03am: no mystery ... unemployed have no (or little) money, they have no choice but to look for the cheapest product from wherever they can get it. Correct... what bogarde is describing is the downward spiral of the West from its cutting its own throat in terms of employment and wages.  Wonder how many of those business council fools actually realise that by chopping away at wages they are bringing about their own demise in the same global market they demand the workers compete in..... Makes you wonder how such fools ever get a job.... but typical of 'management' these days....no real idea at all.

Grappler's solution? Raise minimum wage to $100,000 per month.

Life and society is a mystery to Bogarde73.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:51am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 11:33am: John Smith wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 9:03am: no mystery ... unemployed have no (or little) money, they have no choice but to look for the cheapest product from wherever they can get it. Correct... what bogarde is describing is the downward spiral of the West from its cutting its own throat in terms of employment and wages.  Wonder how many of those business council fools actually realise that by chopping away at wages they are bringing about their own demise in the same global market they demand the workers compete in..... Makes you wonder how such fools ever get a job.... but typical of 'management' these days....no real idea at all. Grappler's solution? Raise minimum wage to $100,000 per month.

No - retain wages at a livable level and withdraw from the 'level playing field' that is anything but.  The alternative in the long term is the utter collapse of the 'global economy' since the emerging nations are running into the same loop here - rising costs of production, rising costs of wages leading to rising costs of basic produce from farmers etc needing to keep up, massive syphoning off of profits to a very few at the top and ensuing discontent and extra pressure on wages for a 'fair share' - when the East reaches wage parity with the West - and actually long before due to transportation costs etc.... the whole thing will grind to a halt.

It is mandatory to do something NOW - not in ten or twenty years time when the petroleum reserves are in rapid Downfall and everything becomes so much harder.

Millions will die worldwide.... I'm looking at the future for my grand-children.

We need to re-estabish our own solid base here of prosperity for all, re-building industrial infrastructure, and providing a firm base from which to develop this country.  To that end we need a cessation of importing large numbers of illiterate and semi-literate peasants and re-commence attracting 'middle class' workers.. tradies etc.

Totally wrong, Sven... only PENSIONERS  ;) , the Honourably Retired, should get $100,000 a month.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 12:01pm:

We need to re-estabish our own solid base here of prosperity for all, re-building industrial infrastructure, and providing a firm base from which to develop this country.  To that end we need a cessation of importing large numbers of illiterate and semi-literate peasants and re-commence attracting 'middle class' workers.. tradies etc.

Its too late. The ship has already sailed and the associated manufacturing businesses are withering as the manufacturers move out.

The services business is not safe either as evolution of automation and overseas on-line competition replaces Australian jobs.

Below is an extract of an analysis of the famous Brigden Committee report of 1927 which supported retention of tariffs against growing international (UK and USA) pressure for free trade. The report guided Australian policy for 50 years.

The analysis concludes that Australian wages would be higher and exports slightly lower with retention of tariffs as compared to elimination of tariffs.

Note the "laboring class has gained from protection". This might also imply that capitalists benefited less than workers.

However, there is no certainty that similar effects would occur with Australia's current economic unbalance favoring resource industries and their investors.

http://www.une.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/67356/econwp94-17.pdf


Quote:

The results suggests that if export demand elasticities were low, on average less than one, the foreign currency value of export revenue would have increased as the supply of exportable goods declined with increased protection. The import competing sector of the economy would have expanded increasing the demand for labour. The model projects a considerable increase in employment level with inelastic export demands implying that the growth in employment in import competing sector would have outweighed the employment loss in the exportable sector. If the real wage was allowed to change endogenously in the model, then instead of having employment increase, we would have seen an increase in real wage. Implication of this in general seems to be that the labouring class has gained from protection.

bogarde73 wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 9:01am:

This is a mystery to me

I would suggest that you have a naive view of human nature.

People are basically selfish. That's how Capitalism works.
Were you equally surprised by all the music and movie piracy that started with the internet age?   

When I say it's a mystery that's of course a rhetorical statement.
Why should I be surpris d that people shoot themselves in the foot and then say "that hurts".

Personally I'd have a shot at the tariff route again. Maybe short term pain for long term gain.
Of course you would need a dictatorship of Bogarde for that to happen.

bogarde73 wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

When I say it's a mystery that's of course a rhetorical statement. Why should I be surpris d that people shoot themselves in the foot and then say "that hurts". Personally I'd have a shot at the tariff route again. Maybe short term pain for long term gain. Of course you would need a dictatorship of Bogarde for that to happen.

Tariffs lead to trade wars. Those countries that impose tariffs have tariffs imposed against them.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:33am:

John Smith wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 9:03am: no mystery ... unemployed have no (or little) money, they have no choice but to look for the cheapest product from wherever they can get it. Correct... what bogarde is describing is the downward spiral of the West from its cutting its own throat in terms of employment and wages.  Wonder how many of those business council fools actually realise that by chopping away at wages they are bringing about their own demise in the same global market they demand the workers compete in..... Makes you wonder how such fools ever get a job.... but typical of 'management' these days....no real idea at all.

Yes... spot on.

bogarde73 wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

Personally I'd have a shot at the tariff route again. Maybe short term pain for long term gain.

Agree. This global market bullsh1t doesn't really work. All it does is drag us down to the lowest common denominator, in the meantime, multinationals are becoming more powerful than some governments. So much so that governments are now afraid to act against them

I blame the invention of the wheel, if the wheel was never invented their would be full employment.  :D

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 3:04pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 1:33pm: When I say it's a mystery that's of course a rhetorical statement. Why should I be surpris d that people shoot themselves in the foot and then say "that hurts". Personally I'd have a shot at the tariff route again. Maybe short term pain for long term gain. Of course you would need a dictatorship of Bogarde for that to happen. Tariffs lead to trade wars. Those countries that impose tariffs have tariffs imposed against them.

Asian countries currently have a tariff imposed on us.. it's called lower wages.......

There already is a trade war and always will be - when the scenario I've forecast, of the entire 'world economy' grinding to a halt when everyone is equally poor and unable to buy finished goods, comes to be, then you will see war for true.....  :-?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 8:24pm:

Svengali wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 3:04pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 1:33pm: When I say it's a mystery that's of course a rhetorical statement. Why should I be surpris d that people shoot themselves in the foot and then say "that hurts". Personally I'd have a shot at the tariff route again. Maybe short term pain for long term gain. Of course you would need a dictatorship of Bogarde for that to happen. Tariffs lead to trade wars. Those countries that impose tariffs have tariffs imposed against them. Asian countries currently have a tariff imposed on us.. it's called lower wages....... There already is a trade war and always will be - when the scenario I've forecast, of the entire 'world economy' grinding to a halt when everyone is equally poor and unable to buy finished goods, comes to be, then you will see war for true.....  :-?

Grappler has reached that state before the rest of us.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 8:31pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:24pm: Svengali wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 3:04pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 1:33pm: When I say it's a mystery that's of course a rhetorical statement. Why should I be surpris d that people shoot themselves in the foot and then say "that hurts". Personally I'd have a shot at the tariff route again. Maybe short term pain for long term gain. Of course you would need a dictatorship of Bogarde for that to happen. Tariffs lead to trade wars. Those countries that impose tariffs have tariffs imposed against them. Asian countries currently have a tariff imposed on us.. it's called lower wages....... There already is a trade war and always will be - when the scenario I've forecast, of the entire 'world economy' grinding to a halt when everyone is equally poor and unable to buy finished goods, comes to be, then you will see war for true.....  :-? Grappler has reached that state before the rest of us.

You could not be more correct..........