A number of uninformed Ozpolitic denizens are proposing the reintroduction of tariffs.

Australia does not need more taxes with the current marginal personal tax rate exceeding 60% including the superannuation levy and medicare levy.

Tariffs are another form of tax on the consumer and reduce consumption which is a negative economic effect.

Australia's problems are: low productivity; an unbalanced economy tilted toward the resources sector; a small population and large distances between population centres.

If tariffs are introduced, all prices will increase, not just the prices of imported goods.

Australia already has a tariff of 1.9% http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TM.TAX.MRCH.WM.AR.ZS

http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs_2.htm


Quote:

Generally the benefit caused by the increased domestic production in the tariff protected industry plus the increased government revenues does not offset the losses the increased prices cause consumers and the costs of imposing and collecting the tariff. We haven't even considered the possibility that other countries might put tariffs on our goods in retaliation, which we know would be costly to us. Even if they do not, the tariff is still costly to the economy. In my article The Effect of Taxes on Economic Growth we saw that increased taxes cause consumers to alter their behavior which in turn causes the economy to be less efficient. Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations showed how international trade increases the wealth of an economy. Any mechanism designed to slow international trade will have the effect of reducing economic growth. For these reasons economic theory teaches us that tariffs will be harmful to the country imposing them. That's how it should work in theory. How does it work in practice? Empirical Evidence on the Effect of Tariffs on the Country Imposing Them Study after study has shown that tariffs cause reduced economic growth to the country imposing them. A few of examples: The essay on Free Trade at The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics looks at the issue of international trade policy. In the essay, Alan Blinder states that "one study estimated that in 1984 U.S. consumers paid $42,000 annually for each textile job that was preserved by import quotas, a sum that greatly exceeded the average earnings of a textile worker. That same study estimated that restricting foreign imports cost $105,000 annually for each automobile worker's job that was saved, $420,000 for each job in TV manufacturing, and $750,000 for every job saved in the steel industry." In the year 2000 President Bush raised tariffs on imported steel goods between 8 and 30 percent. The Mackinac Center for Public Policy cites a study which indicates that the tariff will reduce U.S. national income by between 0.5 to 1.4 billion dollars. The study estimates that less than 10,000 jobs in the steel industry will be saved by the measure at a cost of over $400,000 per job saved. For every job saved by this measure, 8 will be lost. The cost of protecting these jobs is not unique to the steel industry or to the United States. The National Center For Policy Analysis estimates that in 1994 tariffs cost the U.S. economy 32.3 billion dollars or $170,000 for every job saved. Tariffs in Europe cost European consumers $70,000 per job saved while Japanese consumers lost $600,000 per job saved through Japanese tariffs. These studies, like many others, indicate that tariffs do more harm than good.

I agree. Free trade is good.

Tariffs work outward and are designed to create a level playing field where none currently exists.  The current situation of 'competing' with the CHIMP (Chinese Industrial Manufacturing Person) is grossly unstable and has inevitable consequences for both ends of the chain, the producers and the buyers - with the only real beneficiaries being those who currently shift stuff between the two.

In order for the CHIMP to compete with US on a level playing field, it is necessary for the CHIMP to either pay the same rates of pay or for the middle men to accept payment of an entry fee to a higher wage market.  If that is tariff - so be it.

HOW are 'tariffs not the answer'?  They worked very well for centuries... only in the modern era of Western economic suicide have they become somehow verboten.....

One possible end result will be that Western men will rise in revolt and will overthrow this current system of disadvantagement by force. 

I once wrote a treatise on how governments can change........ one was by revolution.... the other was by an intelligent evolution.

Freed... WHY is 'free trade' a good thing for us all?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 9:55pm:

Tariffs work outward and are designed to create a level playing field where none currently exists.  The current situation of 'competing' with the CHIMP (Chinese Industrial Manufacturing Person) is grossly unstable and has inevitable consequences for both ends of the chain, the producers and the buyers - with the only real beneficiaries being those who currently shift stuff between the two. In order for the CHIMP to compete with US on a level playing field, it is necessary for the CHIMP to either pay the same rates of pay or for the middle men to accept payment of an entry fee to a higher wage market.  If that is tariff - so be it. HOW are 'tariffs not the answer'?  They worked very well for centuries... only in the modern era of Western economic suicide have they become somehow verboten..... One possible end result will be that Western men will rise in revolt and will overthrow this current system of disadvantagement by force.  I once wrote a treatise on how governments can change........ one was by revolution.... the other was by an intelligent evolution. Freed... WHY is 'free trade' a good thing for us all?

As long as breweries keep producing Western man will not rise in any context.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 8:48pm:

I agree. Free trade is good.

Free trade under the banner of globalization is taking our jobs offshore in the mean time the oligarchy want to bring in slave labor.

How can we win with free trade run by the oligarchy......?????

Tell me what the benefits are for hard working Australians...??

Ajax wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:02pm:

freediver wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:48pm: I agree. Free trade is good. Free trade under the banner of globalization is taking our jobs offshore in the mean time the oligarchy want to bring in slave labor. How can we win with free trade run by the oligarchy......????? Tell me what the benefits are for hard working Australians...??

Tariffs are a form of tax which robs the consumer of its purchasing power. All they do is raise prices for all goods, not just imported goods.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:14pm:

Ajax wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:02pm: freediver wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:48pm: I agree. Free trade is good. Free trade under the banner of globalization is taking our jobs offshore in the mean time the oligarchy want to bring in slave labor. How can we win with free trade run by the oligarchy......????? Tell me what the benefits are for hard working Australians...?? Tariffs are a form of tax which robs the consumer of its purchasing power. All they do is raise prices for all goods, not just imported goods.

Not if it is a tax on the profits of middle men.... we'll sneak up on 'em.... they either pay their share or they lose market share... pretty simple, eh?

Of course, the biggest trouble there for the West is that we have divested ourselves of any opportunity to compete... and so we will not be encouraging local industry and employment etc... the game is too far gone for that and can only either collapse before the West does..... or we all go down.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:18pm:

Svengali wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:14pm: Ajax wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:02pm: freediver wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:48pm: I agree. Free trade is good. Free trade under the banner of globalization is taking our jobs offshore in the mean time the oligarchy want to bring in slave labor. How can we win with free trade run by the oligarchy......????? Tell me what the benefits are for hard working Australians...?? Tariffs are a form of tax which robs the consumer of its purchasing power. All they do is raise prices for all goods, not just imported goods. Not if it is a tax on the profits of middle men.... we'll sneak up on 'em.... they either pay their share or they lose market share... pretty simple, eh? Of course, the biggest trouble there for the West is that we have divested ourselves of any opportunity to compete... and so we will not be encouraging local industry and employment etc... the game is too far gone for that and can only either collapse before the West does..... or we all go down.

The Australian government has proclaimed that you, Grappler, shall service other Australians to rescue the GDP from the industrial pestilence that has killed off industrialists and manufacturers.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:14pm:

Ajax wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:02pm: freediver wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:48pm: I agree. Free trade is good. Free trade under the banner of globalization is taking our jobs offshore in the mean time the oligarchy want to bring in slave labor. How can we win with free trade run by the oligarchy......????? Tell me what the benefits are for hard working Australians...?? Tariffs are a form of tax which robs the consumer of its purchasing power. All they do is raise prices for all goods, not just imported goods.

You have to have a job to be a consumer.

I'ld rather have a job and pay a little more in tax than have no job at all, or be forced to work as slave labor.

And that's what's going to happen in the end, we will work for a bowl of rice so we can compete with the third world.

It (tariffs) worked well for so many years.

Free trade is the oligarchies vehicle to do pretty much what they want.

Ajax wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:34pm:

Svengali wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:14pm: Ajax wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:02pm: freediver wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:48pm: I agree. Free trade is good. Free trade under the banner of globalization is taking our jobs offshore in the mean time the oligarchy want to bring in slave labor. How can we win with free trade run by the oligarchy......????? Tell me what the benefits are for hard working Australians...?? Tariffs are a form of tax which robs the consumer of its purchasing power. All they do is raise prices for all goods, not just imported goods. You have to have a job to be a consumer. I'ld rather have a job and pay a little more in tax than have no job at all, or be forced to work as slave labor. And that's what's going to happen in the end, we will work for a bowl of rice so we can compete with the third world. It worked well for so many years. Free trade is the oligarchies vehicle to do pretty much what they want.

The wealthy will do well under tariffs because they spend so little of their earnings on consumption. The poor will pay because they cannot protect themselves from price rises.

All forms of tax on consumption are regressive.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:38pm:

The wealthy will do well under tariffs because they spend so little of their earnings on consumption. The poor will pay because they cannot protect themselves from price rises. All forms of tax on consumption are regressive.

If the poor have a job they'll survive.

Tariffs will also make the Australian product more attractive to corporations.

For example steel, we would use Australian products made here and they wouldn't be going out of business because of cheaper Asian products.

This would apply to most products not just steel.

Look at the USA they finally realized they actually have to make things and are calling back all their manufacturing arms and placing tariffs on imported goods.

U.S. Imposes 266% Duty on Some Chinese Steel Imports
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-imposes-266-duty-on-some-chinese-steel-imports-1456878180

If taxes are regressive why do you support a tax on energy..?

Ajax wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 10:47pm:

Svengali wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:38pm: The wealthy will do well under tariffs because they spend so little of their earnings on consumption. The poor will pay because they cannot protect themselves from price rises. All forms of tax on consumption are regressive. If the poor have a job they'll survive. Tariffs will also make the Australian product more attractive to corporations. For example steel, we would use Australian products made here and they wouldn't be going out of business because of cheaper Asian products. This would apply to most products not just steel. Look at the USA they finally realized they actually have to make things and are calling back all their manufacturing arms and placing tariffs on imported goods. U.S. Imposes 266% Duty on Some Chinese Steel Imports http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-imposes-266-duty-on-some-chinese-steel-imports-1456878180 If taxes are regressive why do you support a tax on energy..?

Tariffs such as this are often overturned by the WTO and sometimes by protests from companies that use steel as an input in manufacturing.

China is filing a complaint with the WTO.

The Australian government has proclaimed that Australians have a job servicing each other and magically producing economic growth from thin air.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:08pm:

Tariffs such as this are often overturned by the WTO and sometimes by protests from companies that use steel as an input in manufacturing. China is filing a complaint with the WTO. The Australian government has proclaimed that Australians have a job servicing each other and magically producing economic growth from thin air.

Like I said you talk a lot of sh!t and it’s not just about climate.

Tariffs have protected local industry for ages up until they were dismantled, they guaranteed where our industries were in direct competition with cheaper Asian products that we were on a level playing field like for example steel products and just about every other commodity where we were in direct competition.

This guaranteed our jobs remained here in Australia and local industry got a fair crack, with their dismantlement (tariffs) our industry are all under threat as we are witnessing our jobs are headed overseas and if that’s not enough the oligarchy want to bring in slave labour from the third world, their already doing it.

What’s this going to do to our standard of living, with the current rules we have to be as cheap as the third world or we will all be selling coffee on street corners?

The WTO an organisation run by the oligarchy not unlike the IPCC/United Nations who are run by the World Bank and who runs the World Bank?

Now tell me again why tariffs are bad and what benefit we have seen from their dismantlement thus far?

BTW If taxes are regressive why do you support a tax on energy which affects everyone and every industry..????

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:08pm:

Ajax wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:47pm: Svengali wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 10:38pm: The wealthy will do well under tariffs because they spend so little of their earnings on consumption. The poor will pay because they cannot protect themselves from price rises. All forms of tax on consumption are regressive. If the poor have a job they'll survive. Tariffs will also make the Australian product more attractive to corporations. For example steel, we would use Australian products made here and they wouldn't be going out of business because of cheaper Asian products. This would apply to most products not just steel. Look at the USA they finally realized they actually have to make things and are calling back all their manufacturing arms and placing tariffs on imported goods. U.S. Imposes 266% Duty on Some Chinese Steel Imports http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-imposes-266-duty-on-some-chinese-steel-imports-1456878180 If taxes are regressive why do you support a tax on energy..? Tariffs such as this are often overturned by the WTO and sometimes by protests from companies that use steel as an input in manufacturing. China is filing a complaint with the WTO. The Australian government has proclaimed that Australians have a job servicing each other and magically producing economic growth from thin air.

So - what Ajax has said is becoming the reality..... and our government is lying to us about the whole thing?

Ajax wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:31pm:

1. Now tell me again why tariffs are bad and what benefit we have seen from their dismantlement thus far? 2. BTW If taxes are regressive why do you support a tax on energy which affects everyone and every industry..????

1. They reduce prices and increase consumption.

2. Reduced energy consumption causes reduction in greenhouse gases. Higher energy prices encourage energy efficiency which is beneficial to everyone.

Svengali wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:38pm:

1. They reduce prices and increase consumption.

You don't seem to understand that this is not a good thing if all industries in Australia are headed for the same fate as the rag trade, which is now happening.

How is this good, eventually we wont have jobs which means no money to buy things.....??!!??

What then.......!!!!!!


Quote:

2. Reduced energy consumption causes reduction in greenhouse gases. Higher energy prices encourage energy efficiency which is beneficial to everyone.

You foolish man, so you want to make energy expensive so people will use less...!!!

Wont happen we'll just pay more.

Why don't you lead the way get rid of your carbon footprint, there goes 21st century life my friend, its energy that has lifted us up to this plateau that you currently enjoy.

Will you stop using your computer and talking sh!t on this forum, one way to improve your efficiency.

Going to give up your car and mobile phone...!!!

Pigs dick you'll just chug along the way you have become accustom to, but your energy bills will be much higher.

You'll make the oligarchy very happy, syphoning billions out of our nation.

Idiot.

Ajax wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 11:51pm:

You don't seem to understand that this is not a good thing if all industries in Australia are headed for the same fate as the rag trade, which is now happening. 1. How is this good, eventually we wont have jobs which means no money to buy things.....??!!?? What then.......!!!!!! 2. You foolish man, so you want to make energy expensive so people will use less...!!!

1. Economic efficiency and rationality compels the collapse of uncompetitive industries in the face of more productive and efficient competitors. This produces the most efficient use of resources.

2. Yes!

The problem is that if Australia does have a strong manufacturing basis then increasing tariff would be a good idea.  Because, then the domestic need will be able to be met.

However, at the moment, our consumers are dependent heavily on overseas import especially from China.   Doing so, even if we get the rebound in investment for manufacturing, it would be at least in 3 to 4 years time.  And in the middle, we will see a rise in prices across the board.   This would be a virtual political suicide for whoever is in power. 

If we increase tariffs, then doubtlessly the other countries who are affected will also most likely increase their tariffs on our export as well.  And that would present a great disadvantage to our producers. 

The solution?  Evolve our economy.  There is no future in competing against $1 per hour cost basis from other countries.  If its not China, then it would be Vietnam, Angola, etc etc.   We should learn from the best - like Germany.  We need to innovate, and we need use our brand of reliability and trustworthy.  But to do that, we need investments in infrastructure, research and education.  We are gravely lacking in these departments.  I think, this is more of a threat to our future than cheap Chinese imports.

free trade drags us down to the lowest common denominator. Bring back tariffs.

John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 1:26pm:

free trade drags us down to the lowest common denominator. Bring back tariffs.

Supporting uncompetitive, inefficient, low productivity industries with tariffs has never worked.

Economies of scale of competitors guarantees they wont work.

Furthermore protected industries don't invest in research and innovation and they fall further behind with time. They don't invest because they know they have no future and they cash in as along as they can.

john (the lier) howard once said that the only way Australia could compete with other third world countries is that workers would have to work for third world wages.
Not his exact words, it was during question time a few years ago.

He then set out to achieve just that.
Work choices, giving power to business, making welfare unattainable or very difficult to get.
He tried to remove guns from the public so that the revolution could be quelled.

He failed, as he did in everything he did, not only a lier, but also a failure.

Instead, Govco is gradually working on this plan again.
Eventually the revolution will come.

Ill build the guillotines to lop off the politicians heads.
And just in case it ends quickly, Ill build a high speed head lopper, so that we can get as many as possible, just in case.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2016 at 8:48pm:

I agree. Free trade is good.

There's no such thing.

Valkie wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 3:44pm:

john (the lier) howard once said that the only way Australia could compete with other third world countries is that workers would have to work for third world wages. Not his exact words, it was during question time a few years ago. He then set out to achieve just that. Work choices, giving power to business, making welfare unattainable or very difficult to get. He tried to remove guns from the public so that the revolution could be quelled. He failed, as he did in everything he did, not only a lier, but also a failure. Instead, Govco is gradually working on this plan again. Eventually the revolution will come. Ill build the guillotines to lop off the politicians heads. And just in case it ends quickly, Ill build a high speed head lopper, so that we can get as many as possible, just in case.

Here's an opportunity for you:

Guillotines which can be operated by indolent dole bludgers from a horizontal position on their couch are yet to be invented.

Svengali wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on May 16th, 2016 at 1:26pm: free trade drags us down to the lowest common denominator. Bring back tariffs. Supporting uncompetitive, inefficient, low productivity industries with tariffs has never worked. Economies of scale of competitors guarantees they wont work. Furthermore protected industries don't invest in research and innovation and they fall further behind with time. They don't invest because they know they have no future and they cash in as along as they can.

You must have sore nuts sitting on the fence .... talking up Tory inspired competition policy & private enterprise spiel ...

then dragging out your best looney left rhetoric for climate change, reducing green house gases whilst defending the spending of billions on minorities, muslim reffos & leftwing luvvie causes.

Talk about ambidextrous ... but then again you'd have to have two.  ::)

Gnads wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 4:50pm:

Svengali wrote on May 16th, 2016 at 2:00pm: John Smith wrote on May 16th, 2016 at 1:26pm: free trade drags us down to the lowest common denominator. Bring back tariffs. Supporting uncompetitive, inefficient, low productivity industries with tariffs has never worked. Economies of scale of competitors guarantees they wont work. Furthermore protected industries don't invest in research and innovation and they fall further behind with time. They don't invest because they know they have no future and they cash in as along as they can. You must have sore nuts sitting on the fence .... talking up Tory inspired competition policy & private enterprise spiel ... then dragging out your best looney left rhetoric for climate change, reducing green house gases whilst defending the spending of billions on minorities, muslim reffos & leftwing luvvie causes. Talk about ambidextrous ... but then again you'd have to have two.  ::)

If automation came to Gnads' work place, Gnads would be replaced by a non-intelligent hat stand and pull-chain flush toilet suite.

Gnads wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 4:43pm:

freediver wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 8:48pm: I agree. Free trade is good. There's no such thing.

Totally agree.... free trade is between equal partners - not one side having essentially a slave economy and the other trying to stay afloat in an all-volunteer and mutual prosperity for worker and employer regime...

This is a bit like the North v South thing in the US pre the Civil War... only it's Mahatma Ho Fung pickin' dat cotton an' dem Damned Yankees thinking they's got da better way o' life dere... and it jest ain't fair dat dem slave owners gits their labour fo' free o' nearly...
   ::)

If all countries introduced tariffs against low wage countries and against their industrialized rivals world trade would shrink substantially and everybody in the world would be worse off.

Free trade and absence of tariffs is beneficial to all mankind.

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

If all countries introduced tariffs against low wage countries and against their industrialized rivals world trade would shrink substantially and everybody in the world would be worse off. Free trade and absence of tariffs is beneficial to all mankind.

Tell that to the unemployed, the under-employed and the increasing unemployable as they line up at the social security office.  I'm certain they are all happy to take one for the team.... as long as Mahatma Hung Lo gets to work for $2 a day and can buy a bag of rice.

'Free trade' and 'globalisation' helps the middle men to grow richer - not humanity as a whole.

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 16^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

If all countries introduced tariffs against low wage countries and against their industrialized rivals world trade would shrink substantially and everybody in the world would be worse off. Free trade and absence of tariffs is beneficial to all mankind.

Why are you now using this nic Svengali?