link

(Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village').

Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers.

People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era.

Lambs going silently into the night.   

The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:

link (Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village'). Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers. People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era. Lambs going silently into the night.    The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens.

How do you define "assimilation", Herbie?

How do you measure "assimilation", Herbie?

When do you determine if a person is "assimilated", Herbie?

You never answer these questions.  I wonder why?   ::)

Sensible move by Swiss residents

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 8:47pm: link (Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village'). Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers. People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era. Lambs going silently into the night.    The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens. How do you define "assimilation", Herbie? How do you measure "assimilation", Herbie? When do you determine if a person is "assimilated", Herbie? You never answer these questions.  I wonder why?   ::)

One only has to compare the 'assimilation' rates of all those other ethnic/religious groups that have previously assimilated into our wonderful multicultural world until the recent influx of Islamic refugees.

Then we need to consider what has influenced such an influx.

Perhaps it's an escape from the the internecine squabbles between the various sects of Islam itself, or perhaps it's a desire to sponge off the welfare state created in the West to support its own people.   

Whatever the reason, it has been amply, and repeatedly, demonstrated that this influx of Muslims has been detrimental to any Western society that has accepted them in any number.

These are not Greeks, they build no Trojan horse - their aim is plain to see.

Invasion, not assimilation, is their agenda.

If you want Sharia law, stay where it is the norm. Do not attempt to subvert the law of the host nation/society.

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 9:52pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 8:47pm: link (Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village'). Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers. People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era. Lambs going silently into the night.    The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens. How do you define "assimilation", Herbie? How do you measure "assimilation", Herbie? When do you determine if a person is "assimilated", Herbie? You never answer these questions.  I wonder why?   ::) One only has to compare the 'assimilation' rates of all those other ethnic/religious groups that have previously assimilated into our wonderful multicultural world until the recent influx of Islamic refugees. Then we need to consider what has influenced such an influx. Perhaps it's an escape from the the internecine squabbles between the various sects of Islam itself, or perhaps it's a desire to sponge off the welfare state created in the West to support its own people.    Whatever the reason, it has been amply, and repeatedly, demonstrated that this influx of Muslims has been detrimental to any Western society that has accepted them in any number. These are not Greeks, they build no Trojan horse - their aim is plain to see. Invasion, not assimilation, is their agenda. If you want Sharia law, stay where it is the norm. Do not attempt to subvert the law of the host nation/society.

You haven't answered the questions, Lionel.  How unsurprising.   ::)

I always find it interesting that people like you or Herbie make demands about "assimilation" but dismally fail to provide any means by which "assimilation" can be measured.   Of course, the reason is obvious - you aren't interested in real "assimilation", you just want to be able to continually attack, berate and discriminate against immigrants as you see fit.    ::)

Bias_2012 wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:24pm:

Sensible move by Swiss residents

That's what it seems like to me, and already - just a few miles away in another town where the luvvies now have Muslims settled in amongst them, there are already 'problems'.

None so stupid as those who refused to learn from the World Wide network of news services about the experiences of others whose ignorance and naivety has brought upon themselves nothing but grief from inviting these 7th century barbarians from the Middle East to come live with them.

"‘We do not want them here it is as simple as that,’ one resident of the village told MailOnline.

‘We have worked hard all our lives and have a lovely village that we do not want it spoiled. We are not suited to take in refugees. They would not fit in here".

Precisely.

It's as simple as that.
 

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 8:47pm: link (Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village'). Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers. People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era. Lambs going silently into the night.    The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens. How do you define "assimilation", Herbie? How do you measure "assimilation", Herbie? When do you determine if a person is "assimilated", Herbie? You never answer these questions.  I wonder why?   ::)

Is it any wonder I ignore you, Brian? You are a respected and valued contributer who will never subscribe to commonsense for as long as you believe there are Brownie Points to be made by acting as a Folk Hero apologist and sponsor for the spread of Islam throughout the Western World.

Off you go now back to that little toilet cubicle you call Debate and Relate. If you run out of paper give Capt_Starlight a shout.

Jesus.

What a town. Very smart indeed. It's a pity poorer white people can't use money to keep criminal migrants out  their communities like the  rich can.

Quote:

One of Europe’s wealthiest villages is refusing to accept any asylum seekers - and has instead voted to pay a fine of £200,000. Fears women and children could be at risk from sex attacks as well as the disruption to their peaceful way of life has led the super-rich of Switzerland’s alpine resort of Oberwil-Lieli to vote ‘no’ in a referendum to accept just ten migrants. The picturesque village, where 300 millionaires make up 2,200 population, they all used their financial muscle to reject a Government imposed quota. One of Europe’s wealthiest villages Oberwil-Lieli is refusing to accept any asylum seekers The Swiss Government ordered them to accept ten migrants as part of its promise to the EU to take a total of 50,000 across the country, at least 3,000 of which fleeing Syria Some of Oberwil-Lieli’s wealthiest residents even offered to personally foot part of the fine being imposed by the Swiss authorities for refusing to house refugees. ‘We do not want them here it is as simple as that,’ one resident of the village told MailOnline. ‘We have worked hard all our lives and have a lovely village that we do not want it spoiled. We are not suited to take in refugees. They would not fit in here.’ Surrounded by lush green pastures and with stunning views of the snow-capped Alps in the distance, the twin villages of Oberwil and Lieli would not look out of place on the front of a box of chocolates. Alpine style chalets and modern glass fronted homes make it one of the most desirable - and expensive - places to live in Switzerland. The roads are spotlessly clean, gardens are immaculately kept and despite its proximity to the country’s major city Zurich of 10 miles there is little traffic. Add a zero crime rate and it is not hard to see why homes in the villages cost upwards of £1million with many others worth three times as much. It is this idyll that villagers, a mixture of retirees and young families, voted to keep fearing an influx of migrants would change their way of life. Fears women and children could be at risk from sex attacks as well as the disruption to their peaceful way of life has led the super-rich of Switzerland’s alpine bolthole to vote 'no' in the May 1 referendum On May 1, in a first for anywhere in Europe, the residents voted by a narrow margin to keep asylum seekers out. It has led to a division in the town and severely tested friendships among the residents who have been called racist by human rights groups like Amnesty International who were stunned by the vote. Although not part of the European Union the Swiss Government has pledged to play its part in resettling families fleeing ISIS and the civil war in Syria. They announced earlier this year they would take 3,000 Syrians with a third of those arriving over the next few months in a matter of months. We do not want them here it is as simple as that. We have worked hard all our lives and have a lovely village that we do not want it spoiled. The country also aims to settle up to 50,000 asylum seekers who have managed to make their way across border and into Switzerland, mostly from crossing at the border with Italy following a perilous journey. Oberwil-Lieli’s outspoken Mayor Andreas Glarner says it was the fear of not knowing where the ten refugees had come from that led to the ‘no’ vote. The New Year Eve sexual assaults on hundreds of women in Cologne, Germany by foreign men was also a factor in village residents saying no to housing the newcomers, according to Mr Glarner. In an exclusive interview, the mayor denied that by refusing to accept refugees they were being racist. He told MailOnline: ‘The rejection was a protest at the quota being imposed on us by the Government. ‘We were not to be told if the ten were from Syria or if they are economic migrants from other countries. ‘Yes, the refugees from Syria have to be helped and they are better served by being helped in the camps nearer their home. ‘Money could be sent to help them, but if we are housing them here it sends out the wrong message. Others will come and risk their lives crossing the ocean and paying people smugglers to bring them.’ Mr Glarner, who is a member of the right wing SVP party and their spokesman on immigration and asylum policy, added that residents voted to reject the Government quota, as they believed other towns would be more suitable to take them. .............

tbc

Quote:

He said Oberwil-Leili is a quiet village not equipped to house ten migrants. ‘It was a narrow victory for those of us who did not want the refugees, but Oberwil-Lieli is not the place for them,’ he said. ‘What job would they do? There are a few businesses and farms here but there are no jobs to speak off. ‘They are not likely to be able to speak the language and if some of the refugees have children they will have to go into the local school where they will need special focus.’ Mr Glarner said those in favour of accepting the ten refugees had wanted them housed in an empty suite of offices. But he said many residents rejected that idea as it was too close to a nursery school. Since the vote the mayor, 54, said he has been bombarded with messages of support from other villages and towns across the country for taking a stand against the quota system. He produced a car sticker that says ‘I love Oberwil-Lieli’ and has sent out over 1,000. ‘It might say I love Oberwil, but to those who have asked for the sticker it means “we don’t want refugees”,’ he said. It is clear that the controversial decision to pay a fine and not take any refugees has split the town. More than a dozen people spoken to by MailOnline on the streets Oberwil-Lieli refused to comment on the vote. We have taken the right step. Europe is awash with refugees and they do not have a place here. Oberwil-Lieli 'no' voter The Swiss are known for their secrecy and privacy, but the mention of the referendum over refugees sent them scurrying away. Those who agreed to talk insisted on anonymity and would not have their photograph taken. One mother collecting her daughter from school said she had voted no to refugees after reading about the mass sexual assaults on women in Germany. ‘I am a compassionate person and I want to help others, but I did not want young men coming to our village. It is so safe and quiet here and I did not want to have to worry about my daughter’s safety,’ she said. ‘I am not being selfish as I know the people fleeing Syria have to be helped. I am more than willing to give money to help them. ‘If we had been told there were two families and children I might have voted to accept them. What is unacceptable is that we are just given ten migrants and know nothing about them.’ At the Tricolore restaurant others were more outspoken in their defiance. ‘There are many other places that they would be able to fit in,’ said a man in his fifties and a long-time resident. ‘Migrants would fare much better in a city where there might pockets on their own community. There are none here.’ Elsewhere in the town other residents who were in favour of having refugees spoke of their ‘shame’ and ‘embarrassment’. A mother-of-two who would only give her name as Patriza said she felt embarrassed the way the village had voted. ‘It is only right that we do something to help others who are less fortunate,’ said the 32-year-old. “It makes the village look like we all do not care what happens to others and only look after ourselves. That is not how it is.” Retiree Alexander Baldinger said he supported fully the Mayor and his stance against any refugees being allowed to settle town. ‘We have taken the right step. Europe is awash with refugees and they do not have a place here. “What work will they do if that can’t speak the language. The town can afford to pay the fine and I hope we continue to do so. Another young mother, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity, said she was afraid to go public with her views for fear of being branded a racist. As her young daughter played by her feet, the 34-year-old said: ‘Yes, I voted to keep the refugees out. I have compassion and sympathy for them but they would not fit in here. ‘Take a look around Oberwil and you tell me how a Syrian family would fit in. If the children do not speak German how will they get on in school? There is not the resource for them. ‘They will be from a different culture and religion. Many people in this town have a lot of sympathy for what they have gone through, but I am sorry this is no the right place for them.’ Student Niclas Guendel, 27, said he felt shame that people in his village had turned their back on asylum seekers. ‘Everyone has a right to a new life and you have to be pretty selfish to deny someone that,’ he said. ‘This village could easily accommodate some families. I am sure the community would rally round them.’ In the referendum residents voted by a fine margin of 52 per cent to 48 per cent to pay the annual fine. The £206,000 penalty, which has yet to be imposed, will come out of the annual budget for the village, which raises £5million a year from local taxes. Mayor Glarner said residents could well afford to pay the fine each year and guarantee no migrants. Under Swiss tax laws residents pay tax on their income and the value of their home. With dozens of multi-million pound homes in the village has a generous tax base and able to spare money that would have been spent on the village go on a fine. ..............

Housing is expensive nowadays and likely to be our largest major asset.  We usually choose where we wish to live carefully based on real estate value, schools for our children, employment opportunities, crime rates and statistics, proximity to family and friends, living amongst those we feel have similar values and where we will feel most comfortable to raise and educate our children. 

If any government exercises what it thinks is its right to potentially change the social structure of whole suburbs/towns/villages/communities without complaint and without consultation with the residents who have spent a lifetime working hard for what they have,  then they should provide free housing to all in order to dictate their wishes.

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 8:47pm: link (Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village'). Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers. People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era. Lambs going silently into the night.    The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens. How do you define "assimilation", Herbie? How do you measure "assimilation", Herbie? When do you determine if a person is "assimilated", Herbie? You never answer these questions.  I wonder why?   ::)

Ill consider them assimilate when they come down the pub for a beer and a roast pork roll and stop trying to kill us in our own country; that would be nice too.  8-) 8-)

Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 1:07pm:

Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate.

Correct! - if we are referring to the liberal-progressive policies of both the major parties.

But how about their Australian-born generational offspring?

Canberra's capitulation to 'multicultural' colonialism is no doubt limitless to the umpteenth generation, but not so in the eyes of Australia's Anglo/Celtic mainstream majority.

 

Lord Herbert wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:

link (Note to journalist: It's a town, not a 'village'). Interestingly, nearly half the residents in this town are happy to import Muslims into their community despite the very high likelihood that such a move would soon see mischief of one sort or another tracing back to these newcomers. People's neurotic need for self-harm through unwise decisions is something I believe is a symptom of Western societies slowly coming to an 'End of Empire' era. Lambs going silently into the night.    The real story here is that nearly half the town wants to ruin its social cohesion, its cultural and religious harmony, and its Swiss identity through the importation of unassimilable aliens.

Fair enough too - they can't risk sex attacks & terrorist cells in their village.

Why should the have to pay a huge fine?

Bobby. wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Fair enough too - they can't risk sex attacks & terrorist cells in their village. Why should they have to pay a huge fine?

Why indeed.

But then it's probably a small price to pay when compared to the cost that will be incurred by other communities in the form of stolen goods, drug dealing, gang formation, public groping and molestations, demands for no pork products at the schools, girls being separated from the boys, jeering disrespect towards the local women for wearing lipstick and no headdress, mosque-building, prayer halls, jails filling up with Muslim youths, extremist preachers, ISIS sympathisers, Jew hating Muslim activists, pro-Palestinian demonstrations  - and all the rest of the crap that comes with these people.

And let's not forget the stone-throwing and the eventual development of No-Go areas for the police, ambulances and fire brigades.

A professor of sociology should study this Muslim-free town in comparison to what happens in the neighbouring towns and cities over the next 30 years or so. It would make fascinating reading. But then again, any such research paper would be banned as 'unhelpful', 'racist', and 'liable to cause upset and distress' among the Muslim community'.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 1:07pm:

Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate.

oh yes they are.

and their cult islam should be exterminated.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 2:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. oh yes they are. and their cult islam should be exterminated.

Not all immigrants are muslim.

Our society has moved on since the 1960s - we accept that immigrants can retain their culture - whether they be muslim, hindu or eastern orthodox

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 3:38pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 2:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. oh yes they are. and their cult islam should be exterminated. Not all immigrants are muslim. Our society has moved on since the 1960s - we accept that immigrants can retain their culture - whether they be muslim, hindu or eastern orthodox

Some of their culture. The culture that fits into the parameters of our legal system.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 5:39pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 3:38pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 2:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. oh yes they are. and their cult islam should be exterminated. Not all immigrants are muslim. Our society has moved on since the 1960s - we accept that immigrants can retain their culture - whether they be muslim, hindu or eastern orthodox Some of their culture. The culture that fits into the parameters of our legal system.

Is there anyone in Australia who is invulnerable to, or outside our legal system?

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 5:42pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 5:39pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 3:38pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 2:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. oh yes they are. and their cult islam should be exterminated. Not all immigrants are muslim. Our society has moved on since the 1960s - we accept that immigrants can retain their culture - whether they be muslim, hindu or eastern orthodox Some of their culture. The culture that fits into the parameters of our legal system. Is there anyone in Australia who is invulnerable to, or outside our legal system?

There's people testing it all the time. An example is the clit cutters amongst our Muslim communities. They seem to have the opinion that they can do that here.

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 5:42pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 5:39pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 3:38pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 2:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. oh yes they are. and their cult islam should be exterminated. Not all immigrants are muslim. Our society has moved on since the 1960s - we accept that immigrants can retain their culture - whether they be muslim, hindu or eastern orthodox Some of their culture. The culture that fits into the parameters of our legal system. Is there anyone in Australia who is invulnerable to, or outside our legal system?

dirty filthy sexist bullying arrogant muslims live as though they are

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:12pm:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 5:42pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 5:39pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 3:38pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 2:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. oh yes they are. and their cult islam should be exterminated. Not all immigrants are muslim. Our society has moved on since the 1960s - we accept that immigrants can retain their culture - whether they be muslim, hindu or eastern orthodox Some of their culture. The culture that fits into the parameters of our legal system. Is there anyone in Australia who is invulnerable to, or outside our legal system? dirty filthy sexist bullying arrogant muslims live as though they are

Oh yeas........very bad people you describe there.  Are they invulnerable to our Law ~ outside it?

they ignore it.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:20pm:

they ignore it.

Was that the question asked of you?

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:20pm:

they ignore it.

Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards.

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:20pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Was that the question asked of you?

How do they come under our law when they do what they want in their enclaves and never get caught?

There's Muslims not even standing for the court. And they get away with it. If I did that they'd throw me in the can. What do you think of that Aussie?

It's not actually a gated community is it?

Mr Hammer wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

There's Muslims not even standing for the court. And they get away with it. If I did that they'd throw me in the can. What do you think of that Aussie?

No, you would not be thrown in the can at all for that.  There is no Law which demands that anyone stand.  It's just common courtesy and respect, but, it seems everyone, of every faith has the right to be a bigot these days.

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards.

Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims?

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/about_us/structure/operations_command/state_crime_command

Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad

The Squad conducts multi level investigations and develops intelligence products on Middle Eastern Organised Crime groups including those who have a propensity for violence.


Quote:

No, you would not be thrown in the can at all for that.  There is no Law which demands that anyone stand.  It's just common courtesy and respect, but, it seems everyone, of every faith has the right to be a bigot these days.

Does that bother you Aussie?

Is it a new thing?

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:11pm:

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/about_us/structure/operations_command/state_crime_command Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad The Squad conducts multi level investigations and develops intelligence products on Middle Eastern Organised Crime groups including those who have a propensity for violence. Quote: No, you would not be thrown in the can at all for that.  There is no Law which demands that anyone stand.  It's just common courtesy and respect, but, it seems everyone, of every faith has the right to be a bigot these days. Does that bother you Aussie? Is it a new thing?

It bothers me no more than it bothers me that the NSW Cops have set up (so they claim) many special teams to look at various groups.  I have no problem with that.  Do you, freediver?

Link.

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:57pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims?

Well we do. It's called the "middle eastern crime squad". Oz.

Tell me, freediver, is this correct?  What is she suggesting, in your opinion?


Quote:

we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards.

Freediver you beat me to it!

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:19pm:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Well we do. It's called the "middle eastern crime squad". Oz.

Nuck Hole, where are these special courts and lawyers you referred to.  I've never seen them.  Share your wisdom, and stop riding off the coat tails of another poster.

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:19pm:

Freediver you beat me to it!

Only by a tad under ten minutes.

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:21pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:19pm: Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Well we do. It's called the "middle eastern crime squad". Oz. Nuck Hole, where are these special courts and lawyers you referred to.  I've never seen them.  Share your wisdom, and stop riding off the coat tails of another poster.

I'm not saying there are "special" courts and lawyers. I am saying tax payers fund the courts to deal with these people. And that they get legal aid lawyers. Oz.

Go look up what happened in the case of Tegan Wagner and get back to me. Oz.

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:22pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:19pm: Freediver you beat me to it! Only by a tad under ten minutes.

I didn't see his post. You really are an obsessive little man aren't you.

Now unfortunately I've run out of troll food. Have a blessed day. Oz.

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:21pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:19pm: Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Well we do. It's called the "middle eastern crime squad". Oz. Nuck Hole, where are these special courts and lawyers you referred to.  I've never seen them.  Share your wisdom, and stop riding off the coat tails of another poster. I'm not saying there are "special" courts and lawyers. I am saying tax payers fund the courts to deal with these people. And that they get legal aid lawyers. Oz. Go look up what happened in the case of Tegan Wagner and get back to me. Oz.

So, what you were making was the profound observation that we have coppers, courts and lawyers who are involved in the Australian Justice system, or have I got that wrong, Nuck Hole?

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 7:28pm:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:19pm: Freediver you beat me to it! Only by a tad under ten minutes. I didn't see his post. You really are an obsessive little man aren't you. Now unfortunately I've run out of troll food. Have a blessed day. Oz.

Of course you didn't, Nuck Hole, even though you copied and pasted a direct quotation from what freediver had posted almost ten minutes before your post.  I'm convinced, Nuck Hole.  It was that you left out one word which really convinced me.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:42pm:

It's not actually a gated community is it?

I plucked that description out of the air, but then again, if they are selecting who can live there and who can't, then it's sort of a de facto 'Gated Community' I would say.

It's like all those 'Gated Communities' in France and Scandinavia where the Muslim ghettoes are regarded as No Go Zones by even the police, ambos, and firies. Unofficial 'gated communities'.

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:57pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims?

Aren't there special courts just for aborigines?

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 8:23pm:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Aren't there special courts just for aborigines?

Only in a "de facto" way.  But, I thought we talking about Muslem 'bastards' and the special coppers, the special courts, and special lawyers we have for them, according to a poster.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 2:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:40pm: Fair enough too - they can't risk sex attacks & terrorist cells in their village. Why should they have to pay a huge fine? Why indeed. But then it's probably a small price to pay when compared to the cost that will be incurred by other communities in the form of stolen goods, drug dealing, gang formation, public groping and molestations, demands for no pork products at the schools, girls being separated from the boys, jeering disrespect towards the local women for wearing lipstick and no headdress, mosque-building, prayer halls, jails filling up with Muslim youths, extremist preachers, ISIS sympathisers, Jew hating Muslim activists, pro-Palestinian demonstrations  - and all the rest of the crap that comes with these people. And let's not forget the stone-throwing and the eventual development of No-Go areas for the police, ambulances and fire brigades. A professor of sociology should study this Muslim-free town in comparison to what happens in the neighbouring towns and cities over the next 30 years or so. It would make fascinating reading. But then again, any such research paper would be banned as 'unhelpful', 'racist', and 'liable to cause upset and distress' among the Muslim community'.

You make some strong points there Herby.

Well done.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 8:23pm:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Aren't there special courts just for aborigines?

who would let boongs illegally invade their land ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 8:23pm: Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Aren't there special courts just for aborigines? who would let boongs illegally invade their land ?

Jaybuz!!  Mr Cyclist, if an aboriginal person attended your Church, would you say to him, "Welcome boong?" 

Australia was a Gated Community. They've been bitching and whining ever since White Folk stepped onto the beach at Botany Bay.

8-)

Aussie wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 9:30pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 9:17pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 8:23pm: Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Aren't there special courts just for aborigines? who would let boongs illegally invade their land ? Jaybuz!!  Mr Cyclist, if an aboriginal person attended your Church, would you say to him, "Welcome boong?"

Why would you say welcome?  The wisest course of action would be to call the police.

... wrote on May 29^th, 2016 at 11:32am:

Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 9:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 9:17pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 8:23pm: Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Does that only happen for Muslim 'bastards?"  What are you suggesting?  That we have special coppers and courts and lawyers just for Muslims? Aren't there special courts just for aborigines? who would let boongs illegally invade their land ? Jaybuz!!  Mr Cyclist, if an aboriginal person attended your Church, would you say to him, "Welcome boong?"  Why would you say welcome?  The wisest course of action would be to call the police.

Precisely.. Stealing the Poor Box is frowned upon in Australian law.  ;D

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards.

Yet we would still have those coppers and courts even if those Muslims weren't present, now wouldn't we, Nicole?    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:31am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Yet we would still have those coppers and courts even if those Muslims weren't present, now wouldn't we, Nicole?    ::)

Go read "Girls Like You" by Paul Sheehan. An excellent insight into the strain Muslims are putting onto our legal system.

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:31am: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Yet we would still have those coppers and courts even if those Muslims weren't present, now wouldn't we, Nicole?    ::) Go read "Girls Like You" by Paul Sheehan. An excellent insight into the strain Muslims are putting onto our legal system.

Is this the Mr. Sheehan who once tried to sell us all "Wonder Tea" through his column in the newspapers, Nicole?

The majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding.   I somehow doubt that they are putting much "strain" on any legal system in Australia.

I seem to remember that before the Muslims it was the Vietnamese and the Chinese who were "straining' the NSW legal system.  I often wonder what happened to those "straining" immigrants.  Did they all go straight suddenly?    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:46am:

The majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding.

One more time for the slow learner at the back of the class .....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoXgZLRee0



(How many times do we have to repeat ourselves before these naysayers wake up to themselves?)

there you go Brian, Herb proved with that video that most muslims aren't in fact peaceful and law abiding.

...I think  :D

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28^th, 2016 at 1:07pm:

Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate.

lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:38pm:

there you go Brian, Herb proved with that video that most muslims aren't in fact peaceful and law abiding. ...I think  :D

If you recant your Islamic faith I'll shout you 72 Christian virgins right here on Earth - (albeit using Craig Thomson's Visa Card).  ::)

But au contraire, monsieur, the video clearly supports the idea of at least 75% of the world's Muslims being non-combative and law abiding sleepers until aroused by demagogue preachers calling for them to exercise Activist Islam as instructed to in the Koran.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:38pm: there you go Brian, Herb proved with that video that most muslims aren't in fact peaceful and law abiding. ...I think  :D If you recant your Islamic faith I'll shout you 72 Christian virgins right here on Earth - (albeit using Craig Thomson's Visa Card).  ::) But au contraire, monsieur, the video clearly supports the idea of at least 75% of the world's Muslims being non-combative and law abiding sleepers until aroused by demagogue preachers calling for them to exercise activist Islam as instructed to in the Koran.

So, it's paranoid fantasy then.

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:31am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Yet we would still have those coppers and courts even if those Muslims weren't present, now wouldn't we, Nicole?    ::)

Brian once argued that if we did not have Islam, those Aussie Muslims currently fighting for ISIS would be raping and pillaging their way across western Sydney for a completely different reason. Apparently it is in their genes and has nothing to do with Islam.


Quote:

The majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:38pm:

there you go Brian, Herb proved with that video that most muslims aren't in fact peaceful and law abiding. ...I think  :D

According to Gandalf this "peaceful majority of Muslims" we keep hearing about includes terrorism supporters.

"integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty.

The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:27pm:

"integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it.

Correct! Well said.

And so what you do to preserve social harmony and national identity is invite immigrants from societies which fairly much approximate your own in terms of race, religion, culture, political ideology, social values, etc etc.

You practice discrimination precisely because you want to preserve the identity of your society for your future generations to feel comfortable in.i

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:27pm:

"integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society.

Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long.

When demographic critical mass is reached, the tail then starts to wag the dog.

link

Colonisation is what is happening here. A naval-gazing Middle Eastern community sitting like a hostile garrison surrounded by the Infidels. 

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long.

They said all of that about the Italians and the Vietnamese when I was a kid.

Really the only change was better delis.

mothra wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 2:06pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. They said all of that about the Italians and the Vietnamese when I was a kid. Really the only change was better delis.

Yawn. Good luck at trying your feminist and LGQXYZGHAFASD issues in a highly conservative environment.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. When demographic critical mass is reached, the tail then starts to wag the dog. link Colonisation is what is happening here. A naval-gazing Middle Eastern community sitting like a hostile garrison surrounded by the Infidels.

Amazing. It's not even pretending to hide itself anymore.

We're not going to have a conservative environment. We are becoming more tolerant and liberal progressively .

We could take a million people and it wouldn't change the fabric of our society.

mothra wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

We're not going to have a conservative environment. We are becoming more tolerant and liberal progressively . We could take a million people and it wouldn't change the fabric of our society.

Lol. Is this ignorance or lefty cunning? Gandalf has already, correctly, stated that you can't simply rip the culture out of someone; they bring it with them. Changing a long held belief or attitude isn't like flicking a switch. And why have you gotten cultural supremacist on us all of a sudden, are you being racist?   

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 2:31pm:

mothra wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 2:25pm: We're not going to have a conservative environment. We are becoming more tolerant and liberal progressively . We could take a million people and it wouldn't change the fabric of our society. Lol. Is this ignorance or lefty cunning? Gandalf has already, correctly, stated that you can't simply rip the culture out of someone; they bring it with them. Changing a long held belief or attitude isn't like flicking a switch. And why have you gotten cultural supremacist on us all of a sudden, are you being racist?

If you don't think culture changes easily, why are you worried about the culture of Australia changing due to immigration?

Seems to me that you have success defeated your own argument.

mothra wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 2:31pm: mothra wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 2:25pm: We're not going to have a conservative environment. We are becoming more tolerant and liberal progressively . We could take a million people and it wouldn't change the fabric of our society. Lol. Is this ignorance or lefty cunning? Gandalf has already, correctly, stated that you can't simply rip the culture out of someone; they bring it with them. Changing a long held belief or attitude isn't like flicking a switch. And why have you gotten cultural supremacist on us all of a sudden, are you being racist?    If you don't think culture changes easily, why are you worried about the culture of Australia changing due to immigration? Seems to me that you have success defeated your own argument.

Culture changes when people of a certain demography are imported. Once a certain demography reaches a certain level - some say 10% - it then begins to profoundly push its interests.

Trying the circular argument route, Misty?

How is it circular?

mothra wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

We're not going to have a conservative environment. We are becoming more tolerant and liberal progressively . We could take a million people and it wouldn't change the fabric of our society.

How can you be so ignorant Mothra? Surely, you can't be serious?

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

mothra wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 2:25pm: We're not going to have a conservative environment. We are becoming more tolerant and liberal progressively . We could take a million people and it wouldn't change the fabric of our society. How can you be so ignorant Mothra? Surely, you can't be serious?

How many Italians in Wisteria Nicole?

How has it impacted us?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long.

Your describing whats known as the 'core-periphery' multicultural model, which is not the original idea of multiculturalism espoused by the likes of Zubrzycki when they developed the Australian concept in the 1970s. The core-periphery model is little more than a modified assimilationist model - as it contains the same basic ingredient of a chauvenistic, dominant culture (in our case - anglo culture), which ultimately everyone must aspire to, and adopt. It can be seen as assimilationism by stealth - as it pays lip service to pluralism and diversity, but in reality, it conditions people to view the "core", dominant culture as superior and makes people who aren't in that culture to feel inadequate.

The original multiculturalism idea though, was a trully pluralistic concept - in fact it does away altogether with the idea of separate, competing cultures, and instead focuses on a single, dynamic and diverse culture: that is composed of many and equal "sub-cultures" if you like. Its encouraging to hear some enlightened people in Europe embrace this concept - where they'll talk about mosques and synagogues and churches etc, coexisting together, as being part of "our" culture, rather than merely accepting those things as representing separate cultures, albeit accepted into society.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 2:59pm:

How is it circular?

Because you deflected your way back to your starting point without resolving any of the issues raised along the way.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long.

How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie?

Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over?

mothra wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 5:02pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 2:59pm: How is it circular? Because you deflected your way back to your starting point without resolving any of the issues raised along the way.

Expand.

Karnal wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over?

Answer.

Karnal wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over?

Dunno. I don't work there. I can tell you though that conflict between Turks and Kurds occurs regularly in universities. I am talking about proper fights, with fists, bottles, sticks, and rocks. Although, this is mild compared to what goes on in the South-East corner. PKK kills military personnel almost everyday and the Turkish military responds by wiping out a few dozen terrorists. There's your multicultural paradise in its extreme right there. 

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

Karnal wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 5:17pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over? Dunno. I don't work there. I can tell you though that conflict between Turks and Kurds occurs regularly in universities. I am talking about proper fights, with fists, bottles, sticks, and rocks. Although, this is mild compared to what goes on in the South-East corner. PKK kills military personnel almost everyday and the Turkish military responds by wiping out a few dozen terrorists. There's your multicultural paradise in its extreme right there.

Sorry, Mistie, are you saying you don’t live and work in the heart of the caliphate, Turkey?

How do you know about the fights?

Expand.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 4:51pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Your describing whats known as the 'core-periphery' multicultural model, which is not the original idea of multiculturalism espoused by the likes of Zubrzycki when they developed the Australian concept in the 1970s. The core-periphery model is little more than a modified assimilationist model - as it contains the same basic ingredient of a chauvenistic, dominant culture (in our case - anglo culture), which ultimately everyone must aspire to, and adopt. It can be seen as assimilationism by stealth - as it pays lip service to pluralism and diversity, but in reality, it conditions people to view the "core", dominant culture as superior and makes people who aren't in that culture to feel inadequate. The original multiculturalism idea though, was a trully pluralistic concept - in fact it does away altogether with the idea of separate, competing cultures, and instead focuses on a single, dynamic and diverse culture: that is composed of many and equal "sub-cultures" if you like. Its encouraging to hear some enlightened people in Europe embrace this concept - where they'll talk about mosques and synagogues and churches etc, coexisting together, as being part of "our" culture, rather than merely accepting those things as representing separate cultures, albeit accepted into society.

'Models', hehe. The nature of any ethnic group is to expand its influence. It's not in its nature to bend over and let itself be taken over (unless you're a self-hating lefty type, of which only exist usually in white countries). 'Non-competing' cultures is the stuff of idealism, which is why it only exists in people's heads.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 4:51pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Your describing whats known as the 'core-periphery' multicultural model, which is not the original idea of multiculturalism espoused by the likes of Zubrzycki when they developed the Australian concept in the 1970s. The core-periphery model is little more than a modified assimilationist model - as it contains the same basic ingredient of a chauvenistic, dominant culture (in our case - anglo culture), which ultimately everyone must aspire to, and adopt. It can be seen as assimilationism by stealth - as it pays lip service to pluralism and diversity, but in reality, it conditions people to view the "core", dominant culture as superior and makes people who aren't in that culture to feel inadequate. The original multiculturalism idea though, was a trully pluralistic concept - in fact it does away altogether with the idea of separate, competing cultures, and instead focuses on a single, dynamic and diverse culture: that is composed of many and equal "sub-cultures" if you like. Its encouraging to hear some enlightened people in Europe embrace this concept - where they'll talk about mosques and synagogues and churches etc, coexisting together, as being part of "our" culture, rather than merely accepting those things as representing separate cultures, albeit accepted into society. 'Models', hehe. The nature of any ethnic group is to expand its influence. It's not in its nature to bend over and let itself be taken over (unless you're a self-hating lefty type, of which only exist usually in white countries). 'Non-competing' cultures is the stuff of idealism, which is why it only exists in people's heads.

That’s right. Ethnic groups are like tribes of apes - only one can prevail and survive. This is why they need to be cordoned off from each other.

Unless you want to do a bit of research and make some cash off the Muselman. This is perfectly reasonable. We’re whites. We’re above all that ethnic nonsense.

Selling out your white culture for a job with the Muselman is "progressive".

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

, of which only exist usually in white countries

what a load of rubbish .... no wonder you're a janitor

Granville could do with a few gated communities sugar muffin. It might make it safer. What do you think??

Karnal wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:42pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:32pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 4:51pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Your describing whats known as the 'core-periphery' multicultural model, which is not the original idea of multiculturalism espoused by the likes of Zubrzycki when they developed the Australian concept in the 1970s. The core-periphery model is little more than a modified assimilationist model - as it contains the same basic ingredient of a chauvenistic, dominant culture (in our case - anglo culture), which ultimately everyone must aspire to, and adopt. It can be seen as assimilationism by stealth - as it pays lip service to pluralism and diversity, but in reality, it conditions people to view the "core", dominant culture as superior and makes people who aren't in that culture to feel inadequate. The original multiculturalism idea though, was a trully pluralistic concept - in fact it does away altogether with the idea of separate, competing cultures, and instead focuses on a single, dynamic and diverse culture: that is composed of many and equal "sub-cultures" if you like. Its encouraging to hear some enlightened people in Europe embrace this concept - where they'll talk about mosques and synagogues and churches etc, coexisting together, as being part of "our" culture, rather than merely accepting those things as representing separate cultures, albeit accepted into society. 'Models', hehe. The nature of any ethnic group is to expand its influence. It's not in its nature to bend over and let itself be taken over (unless you're a self-hating lefty type, of which only exist usually in white countries). 'Non-competing' cultures is the stuff of idealism, which is why it only exists in people's heads. That’s right. Ethnic groups are like tribes of apes - only one can prevail and survive. This is why they need to be cordoned off from each other. Unless you want to do a bit of research and make some cash off the Muselman. This is perfectly reasonable. We’re whites. We’re above all that ethnic nonsense. Selling out your white culture for a job with the Muselman is "progressive".

Just as you try to expand the influence of your lefty "progressive" group interests, non-lefties push back and defend their group interests. The same thing occurs on an ethnic level. You can't get outside of the world of conflict. This is why lefties are always talking about how things should be, and not as they are.

:(

:(

John Smith wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:47pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:32pm: , of which only exist usually in white countries what a load of rubbish .... no wonder you're a janitor

What's rubbish, that they don't exist in white countries or that it does exist in other countries?

Mr Hammer wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:48pm:

Granville could do with a few gated communities sugar muffin. It might make it safer. What do you think??

John Smith lives in a gated community. I wonder why?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

'Non-competing' cultures is the stuff of idealism, which is why it only exists in people's heads.

You're not going to change group dynamics misty - Tajfel's minimal group paradigm proved that people can feel a meaningful sense of belonging to groups that are determined by drawing random numbers. Its in our nature to categorise ourselves into groups - and not just "cultures" - but family, political ideology and football clubs. Your argument that its impossible for cultures to live side by side should logically apply to a nation, or society composed of different families, different political groups and different football clubs. But it doesn't. And why? Because we have multiple group identities - just because the Smith's next door aren't part of my family, I still see them as "one of us" - because both our families belong to a neighbourhood community, and above that a town, state, nation. And its no different if the neighbouring family is Khan or Kumar. And thats the whole point of multiculturalism - multiple cultures living side by side can coexist peacefully - because everyone identifies as belonging to the one culture/society/nation.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:58pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:32pm: 'Non-competing' cultures is the stuff of idealism, which is why it only exists in people's heads. You're not going to change group dynamics misty - Tajfel's minimal group paradigm proved that people can feel a meaningful sense of belonging to groups that are determined by drawing random numbers. Its in our nature to categorise ourselves into groups - and not just "cultures" - but family, political ideology and football clubs. Your argument that its impossible for cultures to live side by side should logically apply to a nation, or society composed of different families, different political groups and different football clubs. But it doesn't. And why? Because we have multiple group identities - just because the Smith's next door aren't part of my family, I still see them as "one of us" - because both our families belong to a neighbourhood community, and above that a town, state, nation. And its no different if the neighbouring family is Khan or Kumar. And thats the whole point of multiculturalism - multiple cultures living side by side can coexist peacefully - because everyone identifies as belonging to the one culture/society/nation.

Brian Ross disagrees with you Gandalf. Brian wrote:


Quote:

Most of the trouble is caused, AIUI from the mixing of different tribes caused by their having been moved off their lands and lumped together.   Tribes which are inimical to one another don't make good neighbours it seems.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:58pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:32pm: 'Non-competing' cultures is the stuff of idealism, which is why it only exists in people's heads. You're not going to change group dynamics misty - Tajfel's minimal group paradigm proved that people can feel a meaningful sense of belonging to groups that are determined by drawing random numbers. Its in our nature to categorise ourselves into groups - and not just "cultures" - but family, political ideology and football clubs. Your argument that its impossible for cultures to live side by side should logically apply to a nation, or society composed of different families, different political groups and different football clubs. But it doesn't. And why? Because we have multiple group identities - just because the Smith's next door aren't part of my family, I still see them as "one of us" - because both our families belong to a neighbourhood community, and above that a town, state, nation. And its no different if the neighbouring family is Khan or Kumar. And thats the whole point of multiculturalism - multiple cultures living side by side can coexist peacefully - because everyone identifies as belonging to the one culture/society/nation.

Unless of course they are a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. Then you would have no choice but to slaughter the men and ride off on the women, right Gandalf? Perhaps this is what Brian Ross was getting at.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:52pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:48pm: Granville could do with a few gated communities sugar muffin. It might make it safer. What do you think?? John Smith lives in a gated community. I wonder why?

probably not for the same reason you're thinking off  :D :D

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:50pm:

What's rubbish, that they don't exist in white countries or that it does exist in other countries?

that the left usually only exist in white countries

Mr Hammer wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:48pm:

Granville could do with a few gated communities sugar muffin. It might make it safer. What do you think??

Close the M5 and Parramatta Rd :)

John Smith wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:50pm: What's rubbish, that they don't exist in white countries or that it does exist in other countries? that the left usually only exist in white countries

The socialist left exist in most countries. The self-hating cultural left is a unique phenomenon to the West.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:46am: The majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding.  One more time for the slow learner at the back of the class ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoXgZLRee0 (How many times do we have to repeat ourselves before these naysayers wake up to themselves?)

1. YouTube videos are not evidence, Herbie.
2. I was referring to Australia, not overseas.

Now, unless you can produce evidence - statistical, not anecdotal - that the majority of AUSTRALIAN Muslims are NOT "law abiding", piss off.    ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 12:50pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas.

So, you believe the "mob" should rule society?  My, how interesting!  What happens when the "mob" knocks on your door?   ::)

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:31am: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 6:20pm: they ignore it. Yep. And then we fork out for coppers and courts and legal aid lawyers for the bastards. Yet we would still have those coppers and courts even if those Muslims weren't present, now wouldn't we, Nicole?    ::) Brian once argued that if we did not have Islam, those Aussie Muslims currently fighting for ISIS would be raping and pillaging their way across western Sydney for a completely different reason. Apparently it is in their genes and has nothing to do with Islam. [/quote[ My, what an interesting viewpoint you have about genetics, FD.  Would you like to demonstrate how violence is "in their genes"?  I'd be interested to hear your research on the topic.  Care to parade it before us?   ::) Quote: The majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding. polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:38pm: there you go Brian, Herb proved with that video that most muslims aren't in fact peaceful and law abiding. ...I think  :D According to Gandalf this "peaceful majority of Muslims" we keep hearing about includes terrorism supporters.

As long as they are not violent, they are members of that "peaceful majority".

I wonder how you classify people who have committed no violence as "violent".   ::)

Lord Herbert wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. Correct! Well said. And so what you do to preserve social harmony and national identity is invite immigrants from societies which fairly much approximate your own in terms of race, religion, culture, political ideology, social values, etc etc.

No two cultures are the same, Herbie.  Even you don't fit into MODERN Australian culture, with your Sino-Anglo-Celtic/Saxon viewpoint.    ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 11:09am:

John Smith wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 9:29pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:50pm: What's rubbish, that they don't exist in white countries or that it does exist in other countries? that the left usually only exist in white countries The socialist left exist in most countries. The self-hating cultural left is a unique phenomenon to the West.

no, it's a phenomenon that is unique to your brain.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long.

Why are you so fearful of change?

Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants.

What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

Karnal wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 5:17pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over? Dunno. I don't work there. I can tell you though that conflict between Turks and Kurds occurs regularly in universities. I am talking about proper fights, with fists, bottles, sticks, and rocks. Although, this is mild compared to what goes on in the South-East corner. PKK kills military personnel almost everyday and the Turkish military responds by wiping out a few dozen terrorists. There's your multicultural paradise in its extreme right there.

Turkey isn't a Multicultural society.  The Government actively suppresses Kurdish culture.  The Kurds are fighting that oppression.    ::)

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:44pm:

What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors.

ahhh . that must explain why place like the Philippines are so Americanised  :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:47pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. ahhh . that must explain why place like the Philippines are so Americanised  :D :D :D

America did liberate the Philippines from the Japanese during WW2. Your grandfather sure didn't help liberate anybody.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:44pm:

What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors.

Care to provide evidence?

First you'll have to define "the Left".  Then you'll need to define what a "traitor" is and how those members of "the Left" are being traitorous to their surrounding societies.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:51pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. Care to provide evidence? First you'll have to define "the Left".  Then you'll need to define what a "traitor" is and how those members of "the Left" are being traitorous to their surrounding societies.    ::)

Traitors are people who fill their home countries up with people from around the world thus destroying ther peoples culture, race and making competition for jobs, houses etc.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:50pm:

John Smith wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:47pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. ahhh . that must explain why place like the Philippines are so Americanised  :D :D :D America did liberate the Philippines from the Japanese during WW2. Your grandfather sure didn't help liberate anybody.

so now you're changing your argument ?  ;D ;D

Then Brian will demand you define what "it" means.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:51pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. Care to provide evidence? First you'll have to define "the Left".  Then you'll need to define what a "traitor" is and how those members of "the Left" are being traitorous to their surrounding societies.    ::) Traitors are people who fill their home countries up with people from around the world thus destroying ther peoples culture, race and making competition for jobs, houses etc.

so when Lang Hancock hired a live in Philippino maid, he was being a traitorous leftie?

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:51pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. Care to provide evidence? First you'll have to define "the Left".  Then you'll need to define what a "traitor" is and how those members of "the Left" are being traitorous to their surrounding societies.    ::) Traitors are people who fill their home countries up with people from around the world thus destroying ther peoples culture, race and making competition for jobs, houses etc.

You still haven't defined what "the Left" is.   "Traitors" to what?  A political ideal?  A "racial" ideal or a cultural one?  You haven't told us what they are betraying.

As a proponent of your viewpoint, you really are pretty hopeless, you realise?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:51pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. Care to provide evidence? First you'll have to define "the Left".  Then you'll need to define what a "traitor" is and how those members of "the Left" are being traitorous to their surrounding societies.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:39pm:

Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   ::) ::)

LOL, Herbie made the statement, yours to disprove. 

Clown.  ;D

i can see this is going to be a fun quote.  :) :)

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:55pm:

Then Brian will demand you define what "it" means.

You appear not to like ensuring that we know exactly what he's talking about, FD.  I wonder why?  Could it be that you prefer for his answers to be ambiguous?   ::) ::)

Secret Wars wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:51pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:44pm: What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors. Care to provide evidence? First you'll have to define "the Left".  Then you'll need to define what a "traitor" is and how those members of "the Left" are being traitorous to their surrounding societies.    ::) Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:39pm: Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   ::) ::) LOL, Herbie made the statement, yours to disprove.  Clown.  ;D i can see this is going to be a fun quote.  :) :)

I don't see Herbie in that exchange.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas. So, you believe the "mob" should rule society?  My, how interesting!  What happens when the "mob" knocks on your door?   ::)

The mob will vote in extreme parties, which will happen in Western Europe eventually if moderate conservative parties aren't voted in.

John Smith wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:43pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 11:09am: John Smith wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 9:29pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:50pm: What's rubbish, that they don't exist in white countries or that it does exist in other countries? that the left usually only exist in white countries The socialist left exist in most countries. The self-hating cultural left is a unique phenomenon to the West. no, it's a phenomenon that is unique to your brain.

gee, the cognitive faculties are strong in this one. Back to screwing others over with your rents and sales and letting your wife slap you over the head.

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:43pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants.

It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them.

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:47pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:26pm: Karnal wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 5:17pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over? Dunno. I don't work there. I can tell you though that conflict between Turks and Kurds occurs regularly in universities. I am talking about proper fights, with fists, bottles, sticks, and rocks. Although, this is mild compared to what goes on in the South-East corner. PKK kills military personnel almost everyday and the Turkish military responds by wiping out a few dozen terrorists. There's your multicultural paradise in its extreme right there.  Turkey isn't a Multicultural society.

Yes it is. I lived there for nearly 2 years. They have Turks, Kurds, Syrians, Iranians, Lebanese, Gypsies, Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Germans, British.


Quote:

The Government actively suppresses Kurdish culture.  The Kurds are fighting that oppression.    ::)

Not any more. They're free to speak their language and pursue their arts and history. It's the PKK and affiliated groups that are suppressed (and so they should).

The major multicultural failure is the Turkish and Kurdish issue. The other ethnicities do not make up enough numbers to cause any issues - and neither do they pursue their interests vigorously enough to piss the Turks off. But, the Kurds do push their interests and the Turks hate it.

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:41pm:

No two cultures are the same, Herbie.  Even you don't fit into MODERN Australian culture, with your Sino-Anglo-Celtic/Saxon viewpoint.    ::)

You only need to ask, Brian, and I'll do key-hole surgery on your brain up through your nose with my finest pair of poached ivory chopsticks.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:10pm:

John Smith wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 11:09am: John Smith wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 9:29pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:50pm: What's rubbish, that they don't exist in white countries or that it does exist in other countries? that the left usually only exist in white countries The socialist left exist in most countries. The self-hating cultural left is a unique phenomenon to the West. no, it's a phenomenon that is unique to your brain. gee, the cognitive faculties are strong in this one. Back to screwing others over with your rents and sales and letting your wife slap you over the head.

is the best you can do? I don't know why you'd even bother with a concession speech if that's all you've got.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:47pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:26pm: Karnal wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 5:17pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over? Dunno. I don't work there. I can tell you though that conflict between Turks and Kurds occurs regularly in universities. I am talking about proper fights, with fists, bottles, sticks, and rocks. Although, this is mild compared to what goes on in the South-East corner. PKK kills military personnel almost everyday and the Turkish military responds by wiping out a few dozen terrorists. There's your multicultural paradise in its extreme right there.  Turkey isn't a Multicultural society.  Yes it is. I lived there for nearly 2 years. They have Turks, Kurds, Syrians, Iranians, Lebanese, Gypsies, Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Germans, British.

Their government policy is one of integration.  Anybody who lives there and is a citizen must consider themselves Turkish culturally, first and foremost.   As you point out below, until recently, the Turkish government went so far as to suppress Kurdish culture and language.  Hardly the ideal of a Multicultural policy, now is it?    ::)


Quote:

[quote]The Government actively suppresses Kurdish culture.  The Kurds are fighting that oppression.    ::)

Not any more. They're free to speak their language and pursue their arts and history. It's the PKK and affiliated groups that are suppressed (and so they should).
[/quote]

Why?  'cause they believe in a free and independent Kurdistan?   As a political viewpoint, I see nothing wrong with that view.  Do you?  Why?


Quote:

The major multicultural failure is the Turkish and Kurdish issue. The other ethnicities do not make up enough numbers to cause any issues - and neither do they pursue their interests vigorously enough to piss the Turks off. But, the Kurds do push their interests and the Turks hate it.

As I've said, hardly a Multicultural society with a Government that fosters multiculturalism...  Thanks for making my views for me.   ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:35pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas. So, you believe the "mob" should rule society?  My, how interesting!  What happens when the "mob" knocks on your door?   ::) The mob will vote in extreme parties, which will happen in Western Europe eventually if moderate conservative parties aren't voted in.

Perhaps.  Personally, I'd prefer moderate Leftist parties were voted in.  Conservative policies invariably include elements of oppression and hatred in them.   ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them.

I don't believe I have a connection with them at all.  However, I believe Australian society is mature enough to be able to cope with their minority views.   Most people I believe are moderate, centrist and have come here to seek a better life for themselves and their families.  Instead of concentrating on a tiny minority of a tiny minority, why not concentrate on the overwhelming majority of the majority?   ::) ::)

Lord Herbert wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:41pm: No two cultures are the same, Herbie.  Even you don't fit into MODERN Australian culture, with your Sino-Anglo-Celtic/Saxon viewpoint.    ::) You only need to ask, Brian, and I'll do key-hole surgery on your brain up through your nose with my finest pair of poached ivory chopsticks.

I think I'd enjoy watching you try, Herbie.  I'd snap your poached ivory chopsticks before they got near my face.   ;D

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 4:04pm:

Instead of concentrating on a tiny minority of a tiny minority, why not concentrate on the overwhelming majority of the majority?

In other words, ignore (or even encourage) small problems until they become big problems.

Great plan.

... wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 4:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 4:04pm: Instead of concentrating on a tiny minority of a tiny minority, why not concentrate on the overwhelming majority of the majority? In other words, ignore (or even encourage) small problems until they become big problems. Great plan.

No, what it means is that we should place them in context, instead of running around like a mob of chooks which have just had their heads cut off, which is what invariably the bigots and racists do when their group de jour does something to annoy and upset them.

Treat the extremists as extremists, do not assume that they represent anything other than their own minority viewpoint.   

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 4:06pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:41pm: No two cultures are the same, Herbie.  Even you don't fit into MODERN Australian culture, with your Sino-Anglo-Celtic/Saxon viewpoint.    ::) You only need to ask, Brian, and I'll do key-hole surgery on your brain up through your nose with my finest pair of poached ivory chopsticks. I think I'd enjoy watching you try, Herbie.  I'd snap your poached ivory chopsticks before they got near my face.   ;D

And then just with a single poached ivory chopstick I can cure you of all your Leftwing anti-social tendencies ...

(Pass me the hammer please, Nurse Nicole) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aNILW6ILk

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them.

Exactly, Culture Warrior. The West's evil white male, held responsible for so much that is wrong in society by the progressive left, pales in comparison to how your "highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants" will treat women, gays, and people who don't march in lockstep to their viewpoints on, well, pretty much anything.

The left's love of Islam is one of those things that just makes no sense. It's why back on Debate and Relate Brian got his arse whipped so many times, it was frankly embarrassing. He would simply disappear from debates, only to pop up two weeks later spruiking the same rubbish.

I used to be a lefty, until I hit debate boards back about 15 years ago. I had to admit - to myself - that I was getting my arse whipped because my leftwing philosophies simply made no practical sense. I was forced to change my views.

Now Brian, The Fourth Estate is on his way. I know, it's...

TORTURE!

Where's he coming from?  The Moon via lame turtle?

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 7:11pm:

I used to be a lefty, until I hit debate boards back about 15 years ago. I had to admit - to myself - that I was getting my arse whipped because my leftwing philosophies simply made no practical sense. I was forced to change my views. Now Brian, The Fourth Estate is on his way. I know, it's... TORTURE!

;D ;D ;D

The 4th Estate will be here very soon, Brian ....  http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/schadenfreude.png

What is causing his tardiness?

Aussie wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 9:46pm:

What is causing his tardiness?

bugger.k off none of your business. Oz.

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Aussie wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 9:46pm: What is causing his tardiness? bugger.k off none of your business. Oz.

It is my business, Nuck Hole.  You keep telling me about this Coming.  It amazes me this genius/hero can't even work out how to register and post here for.....how many days has it been now you have been heralding the arrival of this Messiah/Saviour of the Right Wing?

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Their government policy is one of integration.  Anybody who lives there and is a citizen must consider themselves Turkish culturally, first and foremost.

Well, I'd like to see the government documentation that claims foreign nationals who become citizens are considered Turkish in the cultural sense. A piece of paper doesn't make one a Turk, nor does it make one an Australian, German, English. This is like claiming black is white simply by changing the words around.

 
Quote:

As you point out below, until recently, the Turkish government went so far as to suppress Kurdish culture and language.  Hardly the ideal of a Multicultural policy, now is it?    ::)

No. It was an attempt at monoculture. What was your point again?



Quote:

Why?  'cause they believe in a free and independent Kurdistan?   As a political viewpoint, I see nothing wrong with that view.  Do you?  Why?

You're all over the place. One minute your arguing for multiculturalism, then next you're arguing separatism. It didn't take you long to slip up. However, this is the general pattern for lefties; they screech for multiculturalism, then the second a non-white group wants a state based on ethnicity or race you abandon your multicultural ideal (although, Turks aren't considered white, so it's always interesting to see how lefties rank the coloured groups).




Quote:

As I've said, hardly a Multicultural society with a Government that fosters multiculturalism...  Thanks for making my views for me.   ::)

Make sense please.

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 4:02pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:08pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:35pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas. So, you believe the "mob" should rule society?  My, how interesting!  What happens when the "mob" knocks on your door?   ::) The mob will vote in extreme parties, which will happen in Western Europe eventually if moderate conservative parties aren't voted in. Perhaps.  Personally, I'd prefer moderate Leftist parties were voted in.  Conservative policies invariably include elements of oppression and hatred in them.   ::)

Yawn. Where you see oppression and hatred, sensible people see law and order.

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 4:04pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:13pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them. I don't believe I have a connection with them at all.  However, I believe Australian society is mature enough to be able to cope with their minority views.   Most people I believe are moderate, centrist and have come here to seek a better life for themselves and their families.  Instead of concentrating on a tiny minority of a tiny minority, why not concentrate on the overwhelming majority of the majority?   ::) ::)

They can be coped with when their numbers remain small. When their numbers reach a certain point, the problems begin. The evidence for this is everywhere. In fact, I would say ethnic conflict is the number one conflict the world over. As one simple example: Rotherham. Over 16 years more than 1,000 white children were sexually assaulted by Pakistanis. Aided by the left, no one was willing to blow the whistle because it was deemed racist. 

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 7:11pm:

Exactly, Culture Warrior. The West's evil white male, held responsible for so much that is wrong in society by the progressive left, pales in comparison to how your "highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants" will treat women, gays, and people who don't march in lockstep to their viewpoints on, well, pretty much anything. The left's love of Islam is one of those things that just makes no sense.

I think it has to do with what's called 'status signalling'. By holding certain views (being tolerant of all non-white ethnicities, regardless of how they act), they associate themselves with an 'intellectually and morally superior' group and not the 'bogans' and 'rednecks'.



Quote:

It's why back on Debate and Relate Brian got his arse whipped so many times, it was frankly embarrassing. He would simply disappear from debates, only to pop up two weeks later spruiking the same rubbish.

hehe.


Quote:

I used to be a lefty, until I hit debate boards back about 15 years ago. I had to admit - to myself - that I was getting my arse whipped because my leftwing philosophies simply made no practical sense. I was forced to change my views.

I was a lefty many years ago as well. I changed for numerous reasons. Initially, I saw numerous contradictions in their (and my) claims. After a while, I could no longer in good conscience holds such contradictory views. As my skepticism of them grew, I also noticed that they had a very pessimistic and morbid view of the world - from their views on human nature, society, (Western) culture, history, economics.

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 7:11pm:

Exactly, Culture Warrior. The West's evil white male, held responsible for so much that is wrong in society by the progressive left, pales in comparison to how your "highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants" will treat women, gays, and people who don't march in lockstep to their viewpoints on, well, pretty much anything.

The millions (literally) of dead as a result of the imperial activities of "the evil white male" disagree with you.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 2:44pm:

What Herbet says is true. Countries outside of the west don't seem to have leftie traitors.

I know. Except all the  lefty traitorous ones.

Cunning, no?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 3:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:47pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 6:26pm: Karnal wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 5:17pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. How is it in the Turkish university sector, Mistie? Do they assimilate you or has your type taken over? Dunno. I don't work there. I can tell you though that conflict between Turks and Kurds occurs regularly in universities. I am talking about proper fights, with fists, bottles, sticks, and rocks. Although, this is mild compared to what goes on in the South-East corner. PKK kills military personnel almost everyday and the Turkish military responds by wiping out a few dozen terrorists. There's your multicultural paradise in its extreme right there.  Turkey isn't a Multicultural society.  Yes it is. I lived there for nearly 2 years. They have Turks, Kurds, Syrians, Iranians, Lebanese, Gypsies, Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Germans, British. Quote: The Government actively suppresses Kurdish culture.  The Kurds are fighting that oppression.    ::) Not any more. They're free to speak their language and pursue their arts and history. It's the PKK and affiliated groups that are suppressed (and so they should). The major multicultural failure is the Turkish and Kurdish issue. The other ethnicities do not make up enough numbers to cause any issues - and neither do they pursue their interests vigorously enough to piss the Turks off. But, the Kurds do push their interests and the Turks hate it.

How have you settled and assimilated into Turkish culture, Mistie?

Discuss.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 4:06pm: Lord Herbert wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:41pm: No two cultures are the same, Herbie.  Even you don't fit into MODERN Australian culture, with your Sino-Anglo-Celtic/Saxon viewpoint.    ::) You only need to ask, Brian, and I'll do key-hole surgery on your brain up through your nose with my finest pair of poached ivory chopsticks. I think I'd enjoy watching you try, Herbie.  I'd snap your poached ivory chopsticks before they got near my face.   ;D And then just with a single poached ivory chopstick I can cure you of all your Leftwing anti-social tendencies ...

Who said I have anti-social "tendancies", Herbie?

I get on quite well with most people, even you.   ::) ::)

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31^st, 2016 at 7:11pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:13pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them. Exactly, Culture Warrior. The West's evil white male, held responsible for so much that is wrong in society by the progressive left, pales in comparison to how your "highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants" will treat women, gays, and people who don't march in lockstep to their viewpoints on, well, pretty much anything.

Yet we have managed to absorb and integrate previous immigrants with those tendancies and taught their children (for the most part) the error of their parents' viewpoints, Nicole.  I find it interesting that you appear to either never understood or experienced the previous waves of conservative immigrants.  I also find it interesting that you feel that Muslims are somehow different in some way generally.   It's as if they are your new group de jour la hatred...  What happened to the Asians, the Italians, the Jugoslavs, the Greeks, the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, and so on and so on?   Forgotten them in your rush to hate a new group?   ::) ::)


Quote:

Now Brian, The Fourth Estate is on his way. I know, it's... TORTURE!

Boring.  Same old, same old.  You never learn it seems, Nicole.    ::) ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 10:48am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 4:00pm: Their government policy is one of integration.  Anybody who lives there and is a citizen must consider themselves Turkish culturally, first and foremost.  Well, I'd like to see the government documentation that claims foreign nationals who become citizens are considered Turkish in the cultural sense. A piece of paper doesn't make one a Turk, nor does it make one an Australian, German, English. This is like claiming black is white simply by changing the words around.

I suggest you ask the Armenians that question or the Kurds, Culture Warrior.  You might find their answers rather enlightening...   ::)

[quote 
Quote:

As you point out below, until recently, the Turkish government went so far as to suppress Kurdish culture and language.  Hardly the ideal of a Multicultural policy, now is it?    ::)

No. It was an attempt at monoculture. What was your point again?[/quote]

It was an attempt to impose a monoculture upon a nation composed of multiple cultures, through forced integration...    ::)


Quote:

[quote] Why?  'cause they believe in a free and independent Kurdistan?   As a political viewpoint, I see nothing wrong with that view.  Do you?  Why?

You're all over the place. One minute your arguing for multiculturalism, then next you're arguing separatism. It didn't take you long to slip up. However, this is the general pattern for lefties; they screech for multiculturalism, then the second a non-white group wants a state based on ethnicity or race you abandon your multicultural ideal (although, Turks aren't considered white, so it's always interesting to see how lefties rank the coloured groups).
[/quote]

I would prefer that people would get along and respect each other's culture but where that isn't possible because the dominant group refuses to acknowledge the differences in the minorities' cultures then I believe separation is perhaps the only solution - assuming that it can all be peacefully achieved - which as we both know wasn't possible under the Turks...   ::)


Quote:

[quote] As I've said, hardly a Multicultural society with a Government that fosters multiculturalism...  Thanks for making my views for me.   ::)

Make sense please. [/quote]

I have.  You appear unable to comprehend it.   ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 10:49am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 4:02pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:08pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:35pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas. So, you believe the "mob" should rule society?  My, how interesting!  What happens when the "mob" knocks on your door?   ::) The mob will vote in extreme parties, which will happen in Western Europe eventually if moderate conservative parties aren't voted in. Perhaps.  Personally, I'd prefer moderate Leftist parties were voted in.  Conservative policies invariably include elements of oppression and hatred in them.   ::) Yawn. Where you see oppression and hatred, sensible people see law and order.

Oh, and I can tell the difference between "law and order" and oppression and hatred, Culture Warrior.  You appear however unable to.  Tell me, does passing an unjust law make the law just?   ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 10:54am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 4:04pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:13pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them. I don't believe I have a connection with them at all.  However, I believe Australian society is mature enough to be able to cope with their minority views.   Most people I believe are moderate, centrist and have come here to seek a better life for themselves and their families.  Instead of concentrating on a tiny minority of a tiny minority, why not concentrate on the overwhelming majority of the majority?   ::) ::) They can be coped with when their numbers remain small. When their numbers reach a certain point, the problems begin. The evidence for this is everywhere. In fact, I would say ethnic conflict is the number one conflict the world over. As one simple example: Rotherham. Over 16 years more than 1,000 white children were sexually assaulted by Pakistanis. Aided by the left, no one was willing to blow the whistle because it was deemed racist.

What percentage of the Australian population do you believe is Muslim, Culture Warrior?

I'm interested to see how connected your misapprehensions are to reality.

I'd also like to see how you reconcile oppressing and ridiculing the will of a group in a democracy.   ::)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 11:05am:

[quote I think it has to do with what's called 'status signalling'. By holding certain views (being tolerant of all non-white ethnicities, regardless of how they act), they associate themselves with an 'intellectually and morally superior' group and not the 'bogans' and 'rednecks'.

Bogans and Rednecks hold opinions as equally valid as any other citizen's, Culture Warrior.  What they do not hold is a moral high ground because of their numbers.   If our society claims it believes in the "fair go" don't you think we should apply that to all citizens, not just the majority members?

Here's a question for you, Culture Warrior.  Is Australia a modern, liberal democratic nation where the will of the majority is not allowed to ride roughshod over the rights of the minority?   

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:01pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 7:11pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:13pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them. Exactly, Culture Warrior. The West's evil white male, held responsible for so much that is wrong in society by the progressive left, pales in comparison to how your "highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants" will treat women, gays, and people who don't march in lockstep to their viewpoints on, well, pretty much anything. Yet we have managed to absorb and integrate previous immigrants with those tendancies and taught their children (for the most part) the error of their parents' viewpoints, Nicole.  I find it interesting that you appear to either never understood or experienced the previous waves of conservative immigrants.  I also find it interesting that you feel that Muslims are somehow different in some way generally.   It's as if they are your new group de jour la hatred...  What happened to the Asians, the Italians, the Jugoslavs, the Greeks, the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, and so on and so on?   Forgotten them in your rush to hate a new group?   ::) ::) Quote: Now Brian, The Fourth Estate is on his way. I know, it's... TORTURE! Boring.  Same old, same old.  You never learn it seems, Nicole.    ::) ::)

You are equating a religion with a race Brian. Asia is where a person comes from. Islam is what a person believes. Are you honestly suggesting there is no difference?

The problems with Islam are not merely 'du jour' Islam has been undermining the societies it dominates for 1400 years.

Western politicians simply didn't acquaint themselves with the tenets of Islam before opening the gates to them.

It was a case of criminal neglect.

I've asked Gandalf a dozen times in what way his version of Islam differs from Christianity - and I've never received an answer.

Women who convert to Islam ... again, what aspects of their version of Islam is it that is an improvement on Christianity? Never an answer.

'Moderate' Islam is suppose to equate with passive Christianity.

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 6:00pm:

You are equating a religion with a race Brian. Asia is where a person comes from. Islam is what a person believes. Are you honestly suggesting there is no difference?

Where am I doing that?  You do realise that I am quoting an article quoting Hanson, FD?   ::)

Karnal wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 1:40pm:

How have you settled and assimilated into Turkish culture, Mistie? Discuss.

To the best of my ability, I did. The last thing on my mind was to 'stir the pot' simply for some trendy "progressivism". Not to mention that their politics is none of my business.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2016 at 9:15am:

To the best of my ability, I did

Did you wear a hijab?

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:06pm:

I suggest you ask the Armenians that question or the Kurds, Culture Warrior.  You might find their answers rather enlightening...   ::)

You're proving my point; that multicultural doesn't work when the ethnicities/races involved have opposing values.



Quote:

I would prefer that people would get along and respect each other's culture but where that isn't possible because the dominant group refuses to acknowledge the differences in the minorities' cultures then I believe separation is perhaps the only solution - assuming that it can all be peacefully achieved - which as we both know wasn't possible under the Turks...   ::)

You're finally making some sense. Some groups will get along better than others. Those with similar values are more likely to integrate/assimilate than those that don't.




Quote:

I have.  You appear unable to comprehend it.   ::)

Seems contradictory. This is what you said:

Quote:

As I've said, hardly a Multicultural society with a Government that fosters multiculturalism...  Thanks for making my views for me.   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:07pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 1st, 2016 at 10:49am: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 4:02pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:08pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:35pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 12:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:07pm: Immigrants are neither required or expected to assimilate. lol, maybe not, but once the mob has had enough then expect to face the consequences of such ideas. So, you believe the "mob" should rule society?  My, how interesting!  What happens when the "mob" knocks on your door?   ::) The mob will vote in extreme parties, which will happen in Western Europe eventually if moderate conservative parties aren't voted in. Perhaps.  Personally, I'd prefer moderate Leftist parties were voted in.  Conservative policies invariably include elements of oppression and hatred in them.   ::) Yawn. Where you see oppression and hatred, sensible people see law and order. Oh, and I can tell the difference between "law and order" and oppression and hatred, Culture Warrior.  You appear however unable to.  Tell me, does passing an unjust law make the law just?   ::)

Depends on the definition of just and unjust.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:12pm:

What percentage of the Australian population do you believe is Muslim, Culture Warrior?

Well, officially it's about 4%. But why ask? I was talking about Pakistanis in Rotherham, England.



Quote:

I'd also like to see how you reconcile oppressing and ridiculing the will of a group in a democracy.   ::)

It happens all the time. Voting marginalises groups, as does all kinds of social pressures. This is just how societies work. You and your mates have no qualms with ridiculing and oppressing (Western) conservative views, so perhaps you need to engage in some introspection and sort of that contradiction you hold.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 1st, 2016 at 11:05am: [quote I think it has to do with what's called 'status signalling'. By holding certain views (being tolerant of all non-white ethnicities, regardless of how they act), they associate themselves with an 'intellectually and morally superior' group and not the 'bogans' and 'rednecks'. Bogans and Rednecks hold opinions as equally valid as any other citizen's, Culture Warrior.  What they do not hold is a moral high ground because of their numbers.   If our society claims it believes in the "fair go" don't you think we should apply that to all citizens, not just the majority members? Here's a question for you, Culture Warrior.  Is Australia a modern, liberal democratic nation where the will of the majority is not allowed to ride roughshod over the rights of the minority?

Well, despite your ideals, it still occurs all the time. I can't see you running to protect the rights of minority groups like the KKK or Neo-Nazis.

John Smith wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2016 at 9:18am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 2nd, 2016 at 9:15am: To the best of my ability, I did Did you wear a hijab?

Are you still here.