I often see this sort of nonsense from the apologists:


freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 6:00pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1st, 2016 at 2:01pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 7:11pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:13pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:43pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:27pm: "integration" - as opposed to "assimilation" works fine misty. The old assimilation model was rightly discarded because it doesn't work. It tells migrants they must completely drop their way of life and become clones of the dominant culture. Its a fantasy - you simply can't rip the culture out of someone and expect them to seamlessly fit wholly into a foreign one - even when they are attracted so much by it that they want to move to a country that has it. You either restrict your immigration program to countries of the same culture (tried that, and we ran out), or have a whole generation of migrants living a lie and feeling disillusioned. Integration says that immigrants can be productive and make a positive contribution to society while they retain their culture. In fact, it goes further and says that multiculturalism enhances society - since a population of happy people being comfortable to 'be themselves', and not someone else, makes for a healthier society. Integration only works if the populations of the imported cultures remain small, very small. Once they reach a certain level they will then push their ideas/practices onto others. Voting blocks form, infiltration into the public service and universities occur, and then it's game over if it isn't countered before too long. Why are you so fearful of change? Ever consider that Immigrants and their ideas infuse our culture with new views on how to do things?  Today, Australian culture is stronger, not weaker, because of the influx of immigrants. It depends on the values, morals and traditions of those immigrants. Highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants don't mix well. It's hilarious that "progressives" like you think you have a connection with them. Exactly, Culture Warrior. The West's evil white male, held responsible for so much that is wrong in society by the progressive left, pales in comparison to how your "highly religious, conservative, nationalist immigrants" will treat women, gays, and people who don't march in lockstep to their viewpoints on, well, pretty much anything. Yet we have managed to absorb and integrate previous immigrants with those tendancies and taught their children (for the most part) the error of their parents' viewpoints, Nicole.  I find it interesting that you appear to either never understood or experienced the previous waves of conservative immigrants.  I also find it interesting that you feel that Muslims are somehow different in some way generally.   It's as if they are your new group de jour la hatred...  What happened to the Asians, the Italians, the Jugoslavs, the Greeks, the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, and so on and so on?   Forgotten them in your rush to hate a new group?   ::) ::) Quote: Now Brian, The Fourth Estate is on his way. I know, it's... TORTURE! Boring.  Same old, same old.  You never learn it seems, Nicole.    ::) ::) You are equating a religion with a race Brian. Asia is where a person comes from. Islam is what a person believes. Are you honestly suggesting there is no difference? The problems with Islam are not merely 'du jour' Islam has been undermining the societies it dominates for 1400 years.

Brian responded to my question by spending 4 pages feigning confusion about what I was asking, and insisting I need to quote him before he could possibly answer the question, starting with this:


Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 10:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 1st, 2016 at 6:00pm: You are equating a religion with a race Brian. Asia is where a person comes from. Islam is what a person believes. Are you honestly suggesting there is no difference? Where am I doing that?  You do realise that I am quoting an article quoting Hanson, FD?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2016 at 7:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 3rd, 2016 at 5:53pm: Lets try again then. You are equating a religion with a race Brian. Asia is where a person comes from. Islam is what a person believes. Are you honestly suggesting there is no difference? Where have I done that, FD? You appear unable to differentiate between what I have said and what a quote I have quoted has said.  Why?   Is it convenient to erect this silly strawmen arguments?    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2016 at 7:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 3rd, 2016 at 7:28pm: Quote: Where have I done that, FD? See the first time I asked the question Brian. I quoted you. For some reason you left out that quote and pretended you didn't know what I was talking about. You spew the same BS on a regular basis. Provide a reference or better yet, quote the post (in it's entirety) where I supposedly said that, FD.    ::)

Brian ( ::)) doesn't debate honestly. He's deliberately misrepresented two of my posts here inside a week.

If that's what my opponents have to stoop to, it speaks volumes.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:08pm:

Brian ( ::)) doesn't debate honestly.

Quite a charge to make, Nicole.  You of course have evidence to substantiate it?


Quote:

He's deliberately misrepresented two of my posts here inside a week.

I know of one, which I apologised for once you have pointed it out to me, Nicole.  Which was the other?

The one I apologise for, I honestly took it's wording as you wrote it.  It appeared to upset you so I apologised.


Quote:

If that's what my opponents have to stoop to, it speaks volumes.

Tell me, what do you think of Grendel's antics?

I have never argued dishonestly with you, Nicole.    ::)

Mistress Nicole wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:08pm:

Brian ( ::)) doesn't debate honestly. He's deliberately misrepresented two of my posts here inside a week. If that's what my opponents have to stoop to, it speaks volumes.

yes, brian ross is a cult member.

Expect dishonest postings from all cult members.

freediver wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:03pm:

I often see this sort of nonsense from the apologists: [quote author=Brian_Ross link=1464346063/144#144 date=1464753661] Yet we have managed to absorb and integrate previous immigrants with those tendancies and taught their children (for the most part) the error of their parents' viewpoints, Nicole.  I find it interesting that you appear to either never understood or experienced the previous waves of conservative immigrants.  I also find it interesting that you feel that Muslims are somehow different in some way generally.   It's as if they are your new group de jour la hatred...  What happened to the Asians, the Italians, the Jugoslavs, the Greeks, the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, and so on and so on?   Forgotten them in your rush to hate a new group?   ::) ::)

OK, now we get to the gist of your problem.

Where have I equated a religion (Islam) to a "race",  FD?

I have used the examples as similes, not as absolutes.   You appear not to understand that.  I wonder why?

Perhaps more importantly, you appear to be manufacturing a strawman argument.

Would it be easier for you if I spoke about the way other religions and denominations have been treated by the mainstream Anglican religion in Australia's history?

How about how the Catholics were treated?   I am an ex-Catholic, I have some personal knowledge of this.  My father joined the South Australian public service after WWII.   As a Catholic, he found it very hard to progress beyond a base grade clerk's position.   He transferred to the Commonwealth Public Service where no such discrimination existed.

Thomas Kenneally (another Catholic) has written quite an interesting book about the Catholic experience of discrimination in Australia.  The Indelible Stain.   Well worth a read.

It is very interesting how the sectarian divide in Australian society has basically disappeared amongst Christians since about 1960.   Before that, Catholics and Protestants rarely mixed.  Catholics were actively discriminated against.  Catholic schools were underfunded, being completely dependent upon the fees and donations, until the great Science Block debate.   Phillip Adams on his RN Program, "Late Night Live" often speaks of the way in which Protestant and Catholic kids would taunt one another, reflecting their parents' attitudes.

Today, we see active discrimination against Muslims and other minority religions.  Herbie likes to talk about the way in which Sikhs have been discriminated against in northern NSW by the RSL.   Jews suffer similar discrimination.   It's largely ignored and forgotten about.  Do you think it's fair though?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:28pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Jun 4th, 2016 at 5:08pm: Brian ( ::)) doesn't debate honestly. He's deliberately misrepresented two of my posts here inside a week. If that's what my opponents have to stoop to, it speaks volumes. yes, brian ross is a cult member. Expect dishonest postings from all cult members.

And which "cult" would that be?    ::)

The Rationalists?   ;D

You're an honorary musselman Brian.

Quote:

OK, now we get to the gist of your problem.

Why is it so easy now, after you spent four pages demanding I post the same quote for you again Brian?


Quote:

Where have I equated a religion (Islam) to a "race",  FD?

You accused Nicole of seeing Muslims as "somehow different" to the list of racial/national groups you rattled off. Would you like us to explain the difference? Or can you see it for yourself now?

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:38pm:

Where have I equated a religion (Islam) to a "race",  FD?

You haven't. And he should be able to see that in the post you quoted - where you mentioned "Jugoslavs" and "Asians" - which are obviously not a race either, but a groups consisting of many "races" (read: ethnicities). And this was perfectly comparable to the context in which you referred to muslims. But FD has a habit of constructing these sorts of strawmen. He once accused me of saying that all criticism of Islam is racist. I think he's finally got over that one, but it took a while. 

freediver wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:56pm:

You accused Nicole of seeing Muslims as "somehow different" to the list of racial/national groups

Is referencing national groups somehow a reference to race now FD?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:52pm:

You're an honorary musselman Brian.

Really?   :o

freediver wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 5:56pm:

Quote: OK, now we get to the gist of your problem. Why is it so easy now, after you spent four pages demanding I post the same quote for you again Brian?

Because I now know what you are blathering on about, FD.    ::)


Quote:

[quote]Where have I equated a religion (Islam) to a "race",  FD?

You accused Nicole of seeing Muslims as "somehow different" to the list of racial/national groups you rattled off. Would you like us to explain the difference? Or can you see it for yourself now?[/quote]

*YAWN*, run along, FD.  You've wasted enough of our time on your nonsense.  Silly person.   ::)

Do you agree with Nicole that groups identified by race or nationality are "somehow different" to those identified by ideology? Are you going to make the same idiotic point next week?


Quote:

Because I now know what you are blathering on about, FD.

It is the exact same thing I posted the first time Brian. I told you repeatedly that I had already quoted you, and pointed out that you chose to strip all that from your first response. Why was it so difficult for you the first time round?

They are both subject to discrimination, FD.

A discrimination which you perpetuate with your endless bigotry towards Muslims over their religious beliefs.

I wonder why you leave Christians alone?  Mmmm?    ::)

Do you agree with Nicole that groups identified by race or nationality are "somehow different" to those identified by ideology? Are you going to make the same idiotic point next week?

FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so?

freediver wrote on Jun 4^th, 2016 at 8:38pm:

Do you agree with Nicole that groups identified by race or nationality are "somehow different" to those identified by ideology? Are you going to make the same idiotic point next week?

Tell me. FD, are Han Chinese the same "race" as Turks or Indians?  Afterall, they are all Asians...    ::)

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:33am:

FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so?

You ask random people what their religion is?

mothra wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:39am:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:33am: FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so? You ask random people what their religion is?

You don't need to ask, just watch the ones who pray and wives have bags over their heads. Pretty simple, even for a simpleton.

mothra wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:39am:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:33am: FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so? You ask random people what their religion is?

How else does he know who to hate?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:54am:

mothra wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:39am: Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:33am: FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so? You ask random people what their religion is? How else does he know who to hate?   ::)

Just make sure they are conservative for you eh?

Yes, that's  right, Mothradite! I ask  random people what their religion is!
:o :o :o

Aussie, wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:57am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:54am: mothra wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:39am: Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:33am: FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so? You ask random people what their religion is? How else does he know who to hate?   ::) Just make sure they are conservative for you eh?

Why would Hammer hate conservatives?   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:59am:

Aussie, wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:57am: Brian Ross wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:54am: mothra wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:39am: Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:33am: FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so? You ask random people what their religion is? How else does he know who to hate?   ::) Just make sure they are conservative for you eh? Why would Hammer hate conservatives?   ::) ::)

You must have missed the above  ::) ::) ::) ::)

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:33am:

FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so?

Strange. I don’t feel any aversion to the ones in the prayer hall on my street.

I wonder what religion they are.

Karnal wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:20am:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 12:33am: FD, why do leftards get so confused by this distinction? I generally find relating to Christian Lebanese people to be relaxed and trouble free. I generally  feel an aversion and dislike to most Lebanese Muslim people I meet. If the problem is RACE, why would this be so? Strange. I don’t feel any aversion to the ones in the prayer hall on my street. I wonder what religion they are.

That's because you're a cuck terrorist supporter.