wait, aren't guns in America supposed to be a problem?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

The US homicide rate in 2014, the most recent year available, was 4.5 per 100,000. The 2014 total follows a long downward trend and is the lowest homicide rate recorded since 1963 when the rate was 4.6 per 100,000. To find a lower homicide rate, we must travel back to 1957 when the total homicide rate hit 4.0 per 100,000.

Homicide rates were considerably higher in the United States during the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, but over the past 25 years, have fallen nearly continuously

AiA wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:41am:

wait, aren't guns in America supposed to be a problem? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low The US homicide rate in 2014, the most recent year available, was 4.5 per 100,000. The 2014 total follows a long downward trend and is the lowest homicide rate recorded since 1963 when the rate was 4.6 per 100,000. To find a lower homicide rate, we must travel back to 1957 when the total homicide rate hit 4.0 per 100,000. Homicide rates were considerably higher in the United States during the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, but over the past 25 years, have fallen nearly continuously

  are all homicides equal.....like knife/rope/drowning/

are they considered different in America to being killed with a gun?.....

do you think their murder rate is GOOD?....because it is a spiggin lower than 51 years ago.???....

what about all those school children blown away?...

did they count them?

cods, if you simply read the linked post your questions will be answered.

I guess the homicide rate for Florida will take a swipe now???????....

btw gun control......isnt there a slight difference between a hand gun and a AK.47??.....


I feel in AMerica if a city  like say New York came in with one less murder than last year... that would be something to brag about...

the fact you can be walking down the street and get killed because some one was allowed to walk into a shop and buy a gun like he was buying a pkt of cigarettes.....is worse than any thing I have ever heard of..

dont talk about countries like  Mexico...which is complete controlled by gangsters......surely America is more civilised than that????.

at least that what the outside world hopes... any way...

but from what we read.......it isnt.

early in the day for you to be drunk isn't it cods?

AiA wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 9:11am:

early in the day for you to be drunk isn't it cods?

I won I take it.. you have no answer...I will leave you to yourself.

AiA wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:41am:

wait, aren't guns in America supposed to be a problem?

Yes, they're a huge problem.

Who told you they weren't?

cods wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 9:09am:

.......the fact you can be walking down the street and get killed because some one was allowed to walk into a shop and buy a gun like he was buying a pkt of cigarettes.....is worse than any thing I have ever heard of.........

It's not quite that easy, but the gun grabbin' left has done a great marketing job on your head, but to be honest, if you aren't a felon, & you aren't diagnosed as mentally ill, you shouldn't have a problem passing a FBI background check, & within 24 to 48 hours you can have a firearm in your sweet lil hands in most States.

That said.....you could just as easily get killed by a car crossing a Brooklyn Street because a 12 year old girl decided to have a joy ride in her daddy's Dodge with her 2 lil friends.

Matter in fact, more people die that way than are shot, but you couldn't care because then you'd have nothing to bitch & bash about.

Get used to the headlines, because there won't be any changes in America's gun laws any time soon.

BTW.....most Americans couldn't care what the world thinks about, much less what the world doesn't like about their American laws.

Americans enjoy what is probably the most free & open society on the planet, where there are people who will never be interfered with by government regulations in their lifetimes.....& that's the way they like it, & that's the way they want it.

Americans despise "Nanny" laws with a passion. They embrace not having governmental restrictions on their lives, that most of the rest of the world takes for granted daily. ;)

The only change Americans care about is the kind of change that jingles in their pocket. ;)

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 10:16am:

AiA wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 2:41am: wait, aren't guns in America supposed to be a problem? Yes, they're a huge problem. Who told you they weren't?

There's about, give or take, 150 million firearms owners, & about another 50 to 80 million or so non-owners,  in America that would probably disagree with you on that.....but hey, it's their country, so what we here in Australia think is immaterial to them.

Panther wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 12:25pm:

cods wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 9:09am: .......the fact you can be walking down the street and get killed because some one was allowed to walk into a shop and buy a gun like he was buying a pkt of cigarettes.....is worse than any thing I have ever heard of......... It's not quite that easy, but the gun grabbin' left has done a great marketing job on your head, but to be honest, if you aren't a felon, & you aren't diagnosed as mentally ill, you shouldn't have a problem passing a FBI background check, & within 24 to 48 hours you can have a firearm in your sweet lil hands in most States. That said.....you could just as easily get killed by a car crossing a Brooklyn Street because a 12 year old girl decided to have a joy ride in her daddy's Dodge with her 2 lil friends. Matter in fact, more people die that way than are shot, but you couldn't care because then you'd have nothing to bitch & bash about. Get used to the headlines, because there won't be any changes in America's gun laws any time soon. BTW.....most Americans couldn't care what the world thinks about, much less what the world doesn't like about their American laws. Americans enjoy what is probably the most free & open society on the planet, where there are people who will never be interfered with by government regulations in their lifetimes.....& that's the way they like it, & that's the way they want it. Americans despise "Nanny" laws with a passion. They embrace not having governmental restrictions on their lives, that most of the rest of the world takes for granted daily. ;) The only change Americans care about is the kind of change that jingles in their pocket. ;)

free & open society?


Free to be gunned down in the street by a madman who bought a gun legally.

Ask John Lennon - oh that's right - he's dead.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 12:50pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 12:25pm: cods wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 9:09am: .......the fact you can be walking down the street and get killed because some one was allowed to walk into a shop and buy a gun like he was buying a pkt of cigarettes.....is worse than any thing I have ever heard of......... It's not quite that easy, but the gun grabbin' left has done a great marketing job on your head, but to be honest, if you aren't a felon, & you aren't diagnosed as mentally ill, you shouldn't have a problem passing a FBI background check, & within 24 to 48 hours you can have a firearm in your sweet lil hands in most States. That said.....you could just as easily get killed by a car crossing a Brooklyn Street because a 12 year old girl decided to have a joy ride in her daddy's Dodge with her 2 lil friends. Matter in fact, more people die that way than are shot, but you couldn't care because then you'd have nothing to bitch & bash about. Get used to the headlines, because there won't be any changes in America's gun laws any time soon. BTW.....most Americans couldn't care what the world thinks about, much less what the world doesn't like about their American laws. Americans enjoy what is probably the most free & open society on the planet, where there are people who will never be interfered with by government regulations in their lifetimes.....& that's the way they like it, & that's the way they want it. Americans despise "Nanny" laws with a passion. They embrace not having governmental restrictions on their lives, that most of the rest of the world takes for granted daily. ;) The only change Americans care about is the kind of change that jingles in their pocket. ;) free & open society? Free to be gunned down in the street by a madman who bought a gun legally.

Or more likely free to be run down by a drunk driver, or stabbed with a knife, or clubbed with a hammer......or punched to the ground (what we call king coward punched).....or...etc...etc....etc

Check the U.S. government statistics ( CDC Statistics).....

The price of freedom isn't cheap, because as we all know freedom isn't free.

Also, JFYI......Per the highly respected PEW Research Center, since the CDC began publishing data in 1981, gun suicides have outnumbered gun homicides. But as gun homicides have declined sharply in recent years, suicides have become a greater share of all firearm deaths: the 61% share in 2010 was the highest on record. That year there were 19,392 suicides by firearm compared to 11,078 homicides by gun (35% of all firearm deaths). The rest were accidents, police shootings and unknown causes.

Quote:

The price of freedom isn't cheap, because as we all know freedom isn't free.

The price is too high when madmen get hold of guns.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

Quote: The price of freedom isn't cheap, because as we all know freedom isn't free. The price is too high when madmen get hold of guns.

I agree, & better police work, along with better mental health attention would drastically lower their impact.

Wouldn't it be great if we could ban madmen?

Restricting law abiding gun owners is no answer though.

Addressing criminal activity, & mental heath is way more important. ;)

Even then the price would be high......but nothing is ever free.....especially freedom.

Panther wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 1:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 12:58pm: Quote: The price of freedom isn't cheap, because as we all know freedom isn't free. The price is too high when madmen get hold of guns. I agree, & better police work, along with better mental health attention would drastically lower their impact. Wouldn't it be great if we could ban madmen? Restricting law abiding gun owners is no answer though. Addressing criminal activity, & mental heath is way more important. ;) Even then the price would be high......but nothing is ever free.....especially freedom.

I don't see why the average person needs a gun?

Can you tell me?

I don't even think police should need guns.
The cops have only limited access to guns in the UK & NZ.
They certainly don't carry pistols around like cowboys as they do here.
Look at that female cop in Sydney who shot 3 innocent people!

FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low

When you consider that one person just shot 50 people if this is a fact it is a worry, nothing to be proud of here I am afraid.

Or did they get the numbers counted before the latest atrocity ? You would not want to be counting all the shootings now would we.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 1:31pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 1:10pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 12:58pm: Quote: The price of freedom isn't cheap, because as we all know freedom isn't free. The price is too high when madmen get hold of guns. I agree, & better police work, along with better mental health attention would drastically lower their impact. Wouldn't it be great if we could ban madmen? Restricting law abiding gun owners is no answer though. Addressing criminal activity, & mental heath is way more important. ;) Even then the price would be high......but nothing is ever free.....especially freedom. I don't see why the average person needs a gun? Can you tell me? I don't even think police should need guns. The cops have only limited access to guns in the UK & NZ. They certainly don't carry pistols around like cowboys as they do here. Look at that female cop in Sydney who shot 3 innocent people!

Now you are going beyond the OP's original post.....you are dwelling upon an agenda driven & the proclaimed morality of those who seek to remove guns from society.

Here in Australia the govenment forces the people to profess a need to own or use a firearm. In America they have the Supreme Law of the Land.....the US Constitution whic does not permit the government to force it's citizens to profess or demonstrate any such thing....the US Government is forbidden to force the people who they serve to demonstrate any need to own or use a firearm by the Second Amendment to the US Constitution......the second of 10 items in the Bill of Rights....... Here is how I answered a similar question in another thread:


Quote:

In America, the center focus of the OP's original post if you recall, they have something you may have heard of......it's the Second Amendment of the US Constitution.....the Law of the Land......the law which tells the government...not the people....it tells the government what it, the government, is permitted to do, & what it, the government can't do, & what it, the government must do. An American needs only a simple phrased statement.....all the rest is immaterial..... Q.....Why do you need a gun, any gun.......why do you want a gun, any gun? A......The simple answer is:  "It doesn't matter why I do, or why I don't. I don't need to justify my position with need - only my desire to own." Crazy Yankee Gun Laws they say........but, laws that are, & law it is.   ;) The Right to Keep & Bear Arms ........That's a right guaranteed in the American Constitution......the Law of the Land, end of discussion. ;)

Those are the facts, & that's the most I will post to answer your 'NEEDS' question in this thread.

I suggest you start a new topic if it's something you want to pursue in more depth.

Why is the Homicide Rate at a 51 Year Low in America?

Homicide, or Murder, is a crime.

IMHO, more guns seems to mean less crime......Simply, an armed society eventually becomes a more polite society. You don't need to be a Rocket Scientist  to understand why.

As more & more Americans become concealed carry permit holders, those locations where their numbers increase mysteriously start seeing crime levels drop. One would have to wonder why......the left always can be found preaching the opposite.......but why do the crime levels drop, especially homicide.

The left cringe at the prospects, & refuse to admit gun ownership has anything to do with plummeting numbers of homicides & crime, but other explanations of this phenomenon don't seem to carry the weight. They avoid the topic like a plague, but even the police are willing to admit that gun ownership, & as more citizens become armed, very well could have a lot to do with dropping rates of crime. No criminal wants to confront an armed victim, they'd prefer to move on to a softer target if they have doubts whether their victim might be carrying a firearm.

It's estimated that Americans use their legal firearms to protect lives, to stop crime, over 2 million times a year.......using guns not to take lives, but to save lives.........far more times than guns are used to take lives.

Dear Panther,
are you a gun nut?

i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:50pm:

Dear Panther, are you a gun nut? i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place?

Judging by his posts, I'd say he's an all-round nut.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:50pm: Dear Panther, are you a gun nut? i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place? Judging by his posts, I'd say he's an all-round nut.

Dear Greggy,
are you saying that he should be on your watch list?

here:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1466165148

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:50pm:

Dear Panther, are you a gun nut? i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place?

Esteemed Bobby, I'm not a gun nut.

That said, I do firmly believe in ones right to use whatever means one wishes, to protect ones own life first & foremost, the lives of ones family, the lives of ones mates, & also to protect ones property.

Contrary to the beliefs of many people I know, including those associated with this forum, IMHO, a firearm would be a highly acceptable means of that protection. ;)

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:56pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:52pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:50pm: Dear Panther, are you a gun nut? i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place? Judging by his posts, I'd say he's an all-round nut. Dear Greggy, are you saying that he should be on your watch list? here: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1466165148

No, not at all.

I don't think he's dangerous: I just think he's stupid.

Panther wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 5:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:50pm: Dear Panther, are you a gun nut? i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place? Esteemed Bobby, I'm not a gun nut. That said, I do firmly believe in ones right to use whatever means one wishes, to protect ones own life first & foremost, the lives of ones family, the lives of ones mates, & also to protect ones property. Contrary to the beliefs of many people I know, including those associated with this forum, IMHO, a firearm would be a highly acceptable means of that protection. ;)

don't worry -

Greggy's not gunna report ya.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:52pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 4:50pm: Dear Panther, are you a gun nut? i.e.  someone with a whole arsenal of guns at your place? Judging by his posts, I'd say he's an all-round nut. Dear Greggy, are you saying that he should be on your watch list? here: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1466165148 No, not at all. I don't think he's dangerous: I just think he's stupid.

Awww greggy, I wouldn't say the same about you, the smartest person you know.


Naaaaah......


Ignorant is the word that springs front center when you come to mind. https://i.imgsafe.org/c589185.gif

I can believe it. But that's still 4 times higher the rate of murders compared to Australia's.

FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low

And then they go out and shoot another 50 people in one go ?

Dnarever wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low And then they go out and shoot another 50 people in one go ?

Fifty more people killed in the United States is not going to bump up very much the murders per 100,000 rate. It definitely would in Australia.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 10:16am:

AiA wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 2:41am: wait, aren't guns in America supposed to be a problem? Yes, they're a huge problem. Who told you they weren't?

Yes, it seems guns are a big problem in America but not regarding the homicide rate, so I ask, where exactly is the problem?

Obviously, the F,B.I. has not been to Chicago recently.

Death by gun in good ol' capitalist Yankee America is now on the level as many people as car crashes. Death by gun in good ol' capitalist Yankee America is exponentially greater than in all other advanced industrialized countries.

In good ol' capitalist Yankee America the death rate from gun homicides is about 31 per million people per year.

In capitalist Deutschland, that figure is two per million; in capitalist Limeyland, only one and in capitalist Sushiland the likelihood of dying from a gunshot wound is roughly the same as any fat capitalist American's chance of being killed by lightning:
one in 10 million.

Welcome to the New World Order.

Marla wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 3:44am:

Obviously, the F,B.I. has not been to Chicago recently. Death by gun in good ol' capitalist Yankee America is now on the level as many people as car crashes. Death by gun in good ol' capitalist Yankee America is exponentially greater than in all other advanced industrialized countries. In good ol' capitalist Yankee America the death rate from gun homicides is about 31 per million people per year. In capitalist Deutschland, that figure is two per million; in capitalist Limeyland, only one and in capitalist Sushiland the likelihood of dying from a gunshot wound is roughly the same as any fat capitalist American's chance of being killed by lightning: one in 10 million. Welcome to the New World Order.

Yes, yes, we know all that but the homicide rate has been falling for decades.

Are you familiar with the two economists behind "Freakomomics?" They have a theory as to why the homicide rate has been falling:  abortion became decriminalized and the number of unwanted children who would have grown up to commit murders and other violent crimes simply were never born.

AiA wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 4:12am:

Marla wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 3:44am: Obviously, the F,B.I. has not been to Chicago recently. Death by gun in good ol' capitalist Yankee America is now on the level as many people as car crashes. Death by gun in good ol' capitalist Yankee America is exponentially greater than in all other advanced industrialized countries. In good ol' capitalist Yankee America the death rate from gun homicides is about 31 per million people per year. In capitalist Deutschland, that figure is two per million; in capitalist Limeyland, only one and in capitalist Sushiland the likelihood of dying from a gunshot wound is roughly the same as any fat capitalist American's chance of being killed by lightning: one in 10 million. Welcome to the New World Order. Yes, yes, we know all that but the homicide rate has been falling for decades. Are you familiar with the two economists behind "Freakomomics?" They have a theory as to why the homicide rate has been falling:  abortion became decriminalized and the number of unwanted children who would have grown up to commit murders and other violent crimes simply were never born.

For those that think Gun Deaths in America are all bad guys shootin' good, innocent people......think again.


Quote:

There are roughly 32,000 gun deaths per year in the United States. Of those, around 60% are suicides. About 3% are accidental deaths (between 700-800 deaths). About 34% of deaths (just over 11,000 in both 2010 and 2011) make up the remainder of gun deaths and are classified as homicides. Sometimes the 32,000 and 11,000 figures are used interchangeably by gun control advocates. Clearly, the 32,000 figure is a far more dramatic number and it is often used for impact by anti-gun activists........

If you take all deaths, from all causes in America, & then figure what percentage of those were gun related homicides it paints a slightly (well more than slightly, but why embellish) different picture than the gun-grabbing left want you to see & read about.



According to the United Nations, 2,473,018 people died in the United States in 2008.

That comes to  6,775 per day.   

Of those 2,473,018 deaths from all causes 12,200  were gun related homicides,  or   0.0049332435105608% (less than 1/2 of 1% of all deaths)

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/vitstats/serATab3.pdf


According to the CDC ... Center for Disease Control,  in the U.S.A. 2,596,993 people died from all causes in 2013. 

That comes to  7,115 per day.

Of those 10,700 were gun related homicides, or  0.0041201497270112%   (again, less than 1/2 of 1% of all deaths)


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

The percentage of gun related homicides in America has been steadily dropping too, as noted, to a 51 year low.  That's a good thing.

Well, as the FBI ignored the gun shop owner when he reported a suspicious customer (who went on to slaughter 49 people) asking to buy body armour to them, their analysis of the 'Homicide Rate' is somewhat of a joke.

Fuzzball wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

Well, as the FBI ignored the gun shop owner when he reported a suspicious customer (who went on to slaughter 49 people) asking to buy body armour to them, their analysis of the 'Homicide Rate' is somewhat of a joke.

An inconvenient truth

Quote:

Trends by race - In 2008 the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per 100K) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 offenders per 100K) - The offending rate for blacks showed similar patterns to the victimization rate, peaking in the early 1990's at a high of 51.1 offenders per 100K -After 1991, the offending rate for blacks declined until it reached 24 per 100K in 2004,The rate has fluctuated increasing to 28.4 offenders per 100K in 2006 before falling again to 24.7 offenders per 100K in 2008. bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

The blacks in the USA are 13% of the population and they are responsible for just over 52% of all homicides.
Is gangsta rap culture to blame for this gun crime?

The Australian Bureau of Statistics shows the Aborigines in the NT have a 5 times higher homicide rate compared to white man

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

.... The blacks in the USA are 13% of the population and they are responsible for just over 52% of all homicides. ....

Now that's an inconvenient truth!

And some people here can't understand why Americans are arming themselves.

The Orlando shootings were quite simply Islamic Terrorism, not homophobic, or race/colour related. Lone Wolf or not, still muslim, and still calculated and planned.

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 11:14am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:43am: .... The blacks in the USA are 13% of the population and they are responsible for just over 52% of all homicides. .... Now that's an inconvenient truth! And some people here can't understand why Americans are arming themselves.

You familiar with the American police term "self-cleaning oven?" Black on black homicide.

AiA wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 11:22am:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 11:14am: Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:43am: .... The blacks in the USA are 13% of the population and they are responsible for just over 52% of all homicides. .... Now that's an inconvenient truth! And some people here can't understand why Americans are arming themselves. You familiar with the American police term "self-cleaning oven?" Black on black homicide.

A new one on me.

But apt.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low And then they go out and shoot another 50 people in one go ?

Who's "they"? The perpetrator was an admitted Islamic terrorist, and the son of a Taliban supporter from Afghanistan.

Not exactly your textbook "home-grown terrorism," despite where he happened to exit the womb.

The4thEstate wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 6:18pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 9:58pm: FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low And then they go out and shoot another 50 people in one go ? Who's "they"? The perpetrator was an admitted Islamic terrorist, the son of a Taliban supporter from Afghanistan. Not exactly "home-grown terrorism," despite where he came into this world.

You omitted closet homo.  Why did you do that?

Why do you think I should include it?

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population.

why are gun accidents and suicides ignored in this debate? Gun owners in  the US are much more likely to be killed by their own firearm than anyone elses. I beleive this holds true for Australia also.

what is Homicide in America?...

to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like..

and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty...

what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down..

I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown]..

does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?...

cods wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?...

Here is some homicide data from the FBI
- Rifles which include those scary semi auto AR15's around 300-320 homicides per year
-Knives or cutting instruments about 1,700-1,800 homicides
per year
-Bats/clubs/hammers 500-600 homicides per year
-Fists and feet around 700-800 homicides per year

If we look at the numbers without letting irrational fears get in the way rifles which include those scary ones all the hoplophobes want banned cause the least deaths of all firearm types, you are probably far more likely to be bashed-stabbed to death than shot with a scary AR15.
fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

It's amusing how those with irrational fears want to ban the type of gun the FBI says causes the least deaths while ignoring the type that causes the most deaths.

The Pulse attack was Islamic terror that will continue while Islam exists, did you know the female muslim offender in the San Bernadino terror attack was the first female mass shooter in the USA?

ian wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:00am:

why are gun accidents and suicides ignored in this debate? Gun owners in  the US are much more likely to be killed by their own firearm than anyone elses. I beleive this holds true for Australia also.

I agree.....seems there are those that only want to  https://i.imgsafe.org/c1ee75c.gif   ban the gun....ban the gun......  https://i.imgsafe.org/342daf5.gif.......ban the gun, & ignore the root problem(s).....the criminal (which I submit, includes the insane) who used the gun illegally to kill, maim, & destroy, along with those that make stupid mistakes & end up paying the ultimate price.

In the end all gun control accomplishes is penalizing law abiding gun owners....yet again....without addressing the education, crime, & mental health issues .........issues that account for far more firearm fatalities than:  bad man ➜ shoots good people »» with scarey firearm.

As you note......more needs to be focused on mental health & education issues, than demonizing a firearm, that in America is used far more times, by law abiding people, to preserve & protect life, than are used to take life.

The numbers are there for all to read, so why do so many good people ignore the obvious root problems, & gravitate to the agenda driven distractions that will never realistically stop those that use firearms illegally.

cods wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?...

Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers.

Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use.

But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States!

The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:11pm:

cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States!

Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing the very strong possibility it was a wanker attacking gays because he was a tad hung up about being gay himself.  Yeas?

cods wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?...

Homicide is simply the killing of another person, regardless of reason. Murder is the unlawful killing of someone.

Aussie wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:25pm:

The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing

He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state.

Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie?

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 8:34am:

Aussie wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:25pm: The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state. Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie?

Spot on.....the Islamic Apologists all want this obvious act of Islamic terrorism to be termed a hate crime leveled against the LGBT Community, even in America a few handfuls of straight people believe that, but the overwhelming consensus overall is, based on his extensive professions of Islamic Extremism, undeniable proof, that this criminal was acting as an ISLAMIC TERRORIST first & foremost.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 8:34am:

Aussie wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:25pm: The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state. Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie?

If I were a closet Muslim poof, that is exactly what I'd do to mask the truth.  Wouldn't you?

Aussie wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 1:05pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 8:34am: Aussie wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:25pm: The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state. Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie? If I were a closet Muslim poof, that is exactly what I'd do to mask the truth.  Wouldn't you?

Just like the Lindt siege he confessed while doing the crime.

Why do Islamic apologists ignore the confessions from Islamic terrorists?

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 1:05pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 8:34am: Aussie wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:25pm: The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state. Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie? If I were a closet Muslim poof, that is exactly what I'd do to mask the truth.  Wouldn't you? Just like the Lindt siege he confessed while doing the crime. Why do Islamic apologists ignore the confessions from Islamic terrorists?

Why do you automatically believe everything a murderer says?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 1:57pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 1:18pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 1:05pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 8:34am: Aussie wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:25pm: The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state. Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie? If I were a closet Muslim poof, that is exactly what I'd do to mask the truth.  Wouldn't you? Just like the Lindt siege he confessed while doing the crime. Why do Islamic apologists ignore the confessions from Islamic terrorists? Why do you automatically believe everything a murderer says?

Why do you prefer to believe things this murderer, in this case, didn't say....while totally ignoring what he emphatically did say....basically his death bed confession?

From the Obama Administration Dept. of Justice & the FBI

Note: Those that heard the actual conversation recordings, note that where 'God' is written in this transcript, the Islamic Terrorist Omar Marteen actually said 'Allah'.

Here’s the full transcript, without the omissions:

    OD: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.

    OM: In the name of God the Merciful, the beneficent [Arabic]

    OD: What?

    OM: Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [Arabic]. I wanna let you know, I’m in Orlando and I did the shootings.

    OD: What’s your name?

    OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State.

    OD: Ok, What’s your name?

    OM: I pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may God protect him [Arabic], on behalf of the Islamic State.

    OD: Alright, where are you at?

    OM: In Orlando.

    OD: Where in Orlando?

    [End of call.]

As you can see, the redacted parts were clearly about ISIS, which everyone knew already.

This is the explanation given by the DOJ/FBI for why they redacted it in the first place and why they reversed:

    The purpose of releasing the partial transcript of the shooter’s interaction with 911 operators was to provide transparency, while remaining sensitive to the interests of the surviving victims, their families, and the integrity of the ongoing investigation. We also did not want to provide the killer or terrorist organizations with a publicity platform for hateful propaganda. Unfortunately, the unreleased portions of the transcript that named the terrorist organizations and leaders have caused an unnecessary distraction from the hard work that the FBI and our law enforcement partners have been doing to investigate this heinous crime. As much of this information had been previously reported, we have re-issued the complete transcript to include these references in order to provide the highest level of transparency possible under the circumstances.

Panther wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 4:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 1:57pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 1:18pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 1:05pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21st, 2016 at 8:34am: Aussie wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:25pm: The4thEstate wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11pm: cods wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:05am: what is Homicide in America?... to me it means taking a life unlawfully...murder if you like.. and that goes for a cop taking a life ....in the so called line of duty... what are the stats for people killed by guns. as against a knife.or even poison....I am sure guns would win hands down.. I have never heard of someone killing 49 people with the one knife???.....even to poison on that scale would be hard to do...[ its ok I remember Jonestown].. does anybody think the Pulse killings on this scale will be the last?... Blaming the gun for the Pulse massacre is like blaming the Boston Marathon bombings on the easy availability of pressure cookers. Islamic terrorism uses a variety of tools to achieve its bloody toll. The San Bernardino jihadists also had a stockpile of pipe bombs that they didn't get the chance to use. But I'm sure Syed Farook and his lovely bride refrained from using them because gosh, pipe bombs are against the law in the United States! Oh I see.  You have already concluded this was a terrorist attack by a Muslim against the West.  You are dismissing He did call 911 to confess his crimes and say it was an attack by Islamic state. Why are you ignoring his confession Arsie? If I were a closet Muslim poof, that is exactly what I'd do to mask the truth.  Wouldn't you? Just like the Lindt siege he confessed while doing the crime. Why do Islamic apologists ignore the confessions from Islamic terrorists? Why do you automatically believe everything a murderer says? Why do you prefer to believe things this murderer, in this case, didn't say....while totally ignoring what he emphatically did say....basically his death bed confession?

You didn't answer my question.

Quote:

Why do you prefer to believe things this murderer, in this case, didn't say....while totally ignoring what he emphatically did say....basically his death bed confession?

What better place to lay a false trail is there.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Just like the Lindt siege he confessed while doing the crime.

OK, so we should take what Jo Cox's murderer called out when he murdered her in the UK the other week about, "Britain first!"?  We should ignore his apparently long history of mental illness and accept his word about being a representative of the Brexit parties?  Mmmm?

It cuts both ways, Baron.  You want, nay prefer, because of your bigotry what Man Monis said during the Lindt siege, despite his long history mental illness and his own murderous ways?  Then, we must accept that the murder of Ms.Cox was a representative of the Brexit parties and that he was killing her because of her opposition to Brexit?    ::) ::) ::)


Quote:

Why do Islamic apologists ignore the confessions from Islamic terrorists?

Why do Brexit apologists ignore the confessions of their Terrorists, Baron?  Mmmm?    ::) ::) ::)

Aussie wrote on Jun 21^st, 2016 at 4:29pm:

Quote: Why do you prefer to believe things this murderer, in this case, didn't say....while totally ignoring what he emphatically did say....basically his death bed confession? What better place to lay a false trail is there.

They can Spin it to suit their personal needs....I know he was an Islamic Terrorist, but they can feel free to deny it till their lil hearts content, that changes nothing. Facts is Facts.... https://i.imgsafe.org/c589185.gif https://i.imgsafe.org/c589185.gif https://i.imgsafe.org/c589185.gif



At the end of the day, the US Homicide Rate is still At 51-Year Low


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDMF4v048b0

Quote:

I know he was an Islamic Terrorist, but they can feel free to deny it till their lil hearts content, that changes nothing. Facts is Facts....

Looks like you know more that the FBI etc in the US.  Perhaps you better contact them, and share what you know.  You know ~ give them these facts which are facts.

51 year lows & still going down.......
All with more guns per capita than any time in American history!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

Dnarever wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 1:38pm:

FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low When you consider that one person just shot 50 people if this is a fact it is a worry, nothing to be proud of here I am afraid. Or did they get the numbers counted before the latest atrocity ? You would not want to be counting all the shootings now would we.

It's the Price of Freedom that Americans know need to be paid from time to time.....Whereas most here would be shocked in horror at just the mere thought, but in America they go through the initial shock, grieve, grieve some more, then get off the floor....dust themselves off, stand up tall, & go about their business until the next time..........because they know it's "The Price of Freedom", & it needs to be paid from time to time. ;)

All in all.....as time goes on, the homicide rate is still slowly dropping....even with a upwards tic now & then. ;)

Why are homicide rates at a 51-year low? It isn't because of gun control. Sorry liberals. Why has all violent crime in large US cities been trending downward for quite a while now? It isn't because government has gotten "tough on crime." Nor is it because Americans are protecting themselves with personal firearms. Sorry conservatives. Could there be other, non-political, reasons?

AiA wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 1:44am:

Why are homicide rates at a 51-year low? It isn't because of gun control. Sorry liberals. Why has all violent crime in large US cities been trending downward for quite a while now? It isn't because government has gotten "tough on crime." Nor is it because Americans are protecting themselves with personal firearms. Sorry conservatives. Could there be other, non-political, reasons?

The homicide rate in Australia was 1.9 per 100K in 1995 with 0.3 per 100K for firearm homicides.
Therefore in 1995-
Non Firearm homicides 1.6 per 100K
Firearm homicides 0.3 per 100K

Today the homicide rate is around 1.0 per 100K with firearm homicides around 0.18 per 100K.

The gun grabbers claim gun laws reduced firearm homicides yet they cannot explain why non firearm homicides have declined by a far greater magnitude in the same time period.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 6:38am:

AiA wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:44am: Why are homicide rates at a 51-year low? It isn't because of gun control. Sorry liberals. Why has all violent crime in large US cities been trending downward for quite a while now? It isn't because government has gotten "tough on crime." Nor is it because Americans are protecting themselves with personal firearms. Sorry conservatives. Could there be other, non-political, reasons? The homicide rate in Australia was 1.9 per 100K in 1995 with 0.3 per 100K for firearm homicides. Therefore in 1995- Non Firearm homicides 1.6 per 100K Firearm homicides 0.3 per 100K Today the homicide rate is around 1.0 per 100K with firearm homicides around 0.18 per 100K. The gun grabbers claim gun laws reduced firearm homicides yet they cannot explain why non firearm homicides have declined by a far greater magnitude in the same time period.

Evo-freekin-lewshun    https://i.imgsafe.org/989a068.gif

Humans are a killer species..........they have free will, & they are capable of evolving........more humans wake up in the morning nowadays, & subconsciously decide simply not to kill today.......simple as that.....nothing to do with laws.....or John Howard.........nothing to do with governments, they are just more predisposed to not kill than their ancestors were......not by much.....but they are.

PLease don't co-opt science into this. A human doesnt evolve.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 1:05pm:

PLease don't co-opt science into this. A human doesnt evolve.

Hey donkey....if you ain't got a freekin clue, then piss on the straw covered  floor, & then chew some more straw.....eeehaaawwww.

Do what you know best & make up your own nonsense. https://i.imgsafe.org/3ad62cc.gif

Panther wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 1:45pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:05pm: PLease don't co-opt science into this. A human doesnt evolve. Hey donkey....if you ain't got a freekin clue, then piss on the straw covered  floor, & then chew some more straw.....eeehaaawwww. Do what you know best & make up your own nonsense. https://i.imgsafe.org/3ad62cc.gif

So  a human evolves? How?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 3:08pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:45pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:05pm: PLease don't co-opt science into this. A human doesnt evolve. Hey donkey....if you ain't got a freekin clue, then piss on the straw covered  floor, & then chew some more straw.....eeehaaawwww. Do what you know best & make up your own nonsense. https://i.imgsafe.org/3ad62cc.gif So  a human evolves? How?

It's on a need to know basis, & equine, not being human, you have no need to know. https://i.imgsafe.org/c589185.gif

Seriously, look it up.....google is your friend.....

How does a human evolve? We grow. We learn. We adapt. We reproduce. You could not say that the humans of 100,000 years ago were the same as humans are today.