No luck so far getting a straight answer out of John on what he means by this. Apparently he is constantly misunderstood. Now is your time to give your version of your diabolical plan for a caged rape and pillage festival in the middle east John.


John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:12pm: And what are you going to do about the millions of refugees and terrorists streaming out of the middle east ahead of the advancing Caliphate? Build a wall? close down the borders.

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:29pm: So your grand scheme is to build a wall around the middle east and let the carnage begin? not quite, but close enough for the purposes of this discussion freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:29pm: Would you consider it a form of interference to slaughter all the Arabs trying to get past it? no

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 10:23pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:36pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:31pm: not quite, but close enough for the purposes of this discussion How is it different? Do you propose machine gun turrets and no walls to give them a fighting chance? one is my argument, that we defend our borders if and when it comes to that, the other is some fantasy you've concocted

John Smith wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 27th, 2016 at 12:19pm: Our borders are not in the middle east John. then you have no reason to be there.

John Smith wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 27th, 2016 at 12:19pm: What exactly is this plan of yours that is "close enough" to building a wall around the middle east and slaughtering Muslims who try to escape? it's really not such a difficult concept is it? The west stay out of the middle east. Is it really that difficult for you?

John, can you explain how building a wall around the middle east and slaughtering any Muslims that try to escape counts as 'not meddling in their affairs'? If someone built a wall around Australia and killed anyone trying to get in or out, would you consider that to be interference in our affairs?


Apparently it is unlikely for ISIS to take over the middle east because the west is to blame.


freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

Quote: I think that is very unlikely, but so as to amuse you I'll play along .... then we get involved Why is it unlikely? The whole reason we, the Americans, the Russians, the UK etc are getting dragged back into this is because neither Assad nor Iraq are capable of handling ISIS on their own. Would you consider the rise of ISIS as a justification to get involved?

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:36pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Why is it unlikely? The whole reason we, the Americans, the Russians, the UK etc are getting dragged back into this is because neither Assad nor Iraq are capable of handling ISIS on their own. Back to top       (FD> .... for some reason this comment doesn't appear when I quote you working now ) Isis is a result of western involvement So because you blame the west for Muslims raping and pillaging, you want us to stand back and watch them rape and pillage, but if it was their own fault for raping and pillaging, you would want to go in and rescue them? And then presumably blame the west for the cluster bugger it turns into and demand we allow them to start raping and pillaging again?

We have also apparently been trying to establish democracy in the middle east for over a century, and it is time to try something else, like genocide.


John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 10:23pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:36pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:22pm: freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:12pm: There are far greater levels of failure that you are striving for says the guy who thinks burying our head in the sand and continuing to do the same thing we've done for the last 100 yrs will suddenly wield a different result simply because he wishes it so  :D :D :D. Can you give some examples of us doing the "same thing" as setting up democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you always create your own argument then argue against ?

John Smith wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 27th, 2016 at 12:19pm: You said the West was doing the same thing it has been doing for the last 100 years. This is clearly not the case. So you agree that I said nothing about setting up democracies  :D :D and yes, it is the case. The West has been sticking it's nose in middle eastern affairs for well over 100 yrs.

John, do you think setting up democracies really counts as "doing the same thing"? Are caging vs any sort of interference the only two options you can conceive?

getting desperate now FD?

you are the only person to suggest building a wall ... perhaps you should consider starting again?

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 6:31pm:

John, do you think setting up democracies really counts as "doing the same thing"?

'setting up democracies'  ;D ;D ;D ;D


the answer is yes.

John Smith wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 7:34pm:

getting desperate now FD? you are the only person to suggest building a wall ... perhaps you should consider starting again?

According to you it is "close enough" to your vision of the final solution.

Would you care to fill us in on the details John, or would you rather run and hide? I don't think I have ever seen anyone as scared of their own opinion as you are.

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 9:40pm:

According to you it is "close enough" to your vision of the final solution.

I said it was close enough for the purposes of answering the question I was dealing with at the time.

Why don't you quit pretending I said something, and deal with what I actually said instead? Are you worried your arguments might lose their shine if you don't take things to the ridiculous?

Quote:

I said it was close enough for the purposes of answering the question I was dealing with at the time.

Close enough eh? So how does it differ?


Quote:

Why don't you quit pretending I said something

Like in all those quotes above? Was that the other John?

Would you care to fill us in on the details John, or would you rather run and hide? I don't think I have ever seen anyone as scared of their own opinion as you are.

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

So how does it differ?

no wall for starters.


freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

Like in all those quotes above?

I I know what my quotes say ... it's your quotes that rely on imagination

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

Would you care to fill us in on the details John, or would you rather run and hide? I don't think I have ever seen anyone as scared of their own opinion as you are.

See what I said about you becoming overly reliant on your imagination? ;D ;D ;D


I haven't run away from anything. I've told you my position a dozen times ... perhaps memory retention is an issue for you?
It's not a difficult concept FD ... the west needs to get out of the ME's affairs.
No mention of walls, no fairy's, no unicorns, no watch towers and no fencing of any kind. 

So how do you propose we close the borders?

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

So how do you propose we close the borders?

stop the boats

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2016 at 9:40pm:

I don't think I have ever seen anyone as scared of their own opinion as you are.

Oh, we have.

John Smith wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 4:47pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 12:23pm: So how do you propose we close the borders? stop the boats

To Australia? Your grand scheme to solve the middle east's problems is close Australia's borders?


John Smith wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 3:17pm:

ohh, and would you care to show me where I insisted that Isis would not expand if given the opportunity?

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:12pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:59pm: freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:56pm: So what happens when ISIS or something similar swallows the middle east and keeps expanding? I think that is very unlikely, but so as to amuse you I'll play along .... then we get involved And what are you going to do about the millions of refugees and terrorists streaming out of the middle east ahead of the advancing Caliphate? Build a wall? close down the borders.

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 6:33pm:

To Australia?

That's typically where the Australian governments concerns lay


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 6:33pm:

Your grand scheme to solve the middle east's problems is close Australia's borders?

What makes you think I want to solve the M.E.'s problems?



Do you understand the difference between 'unlikely' and 'insist' FD? If you need help, let me know

Quote:

Do you understand the difference between 'unlikely' and 'insist' FD? If you need help, let me know

Sure John. Can you explain how the fact that you blame the west for ISIS leads you to conclude that ISIS is unlikely to expand if given the opportunity?


Quote:

What makes you think I want to solve the M.E.'s problems?

Because you keep going on about what works and what doesn't. I can only go by what you say John. Are you haveing trouble keeping up with your own opinion?

BTW, what did you mean by "get involved" here?


John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:12pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:59pm: freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:56pm: So what happens when ISIS or something similar swallows the middle east and keeps expanding? I think that is very unlikely, but so as to amuse you I'll play along .... then we get involved And what are you going to do about the millions of refugees and terrorists streaming out of the middle east ahead of the advancing Caliphate? Build a wall? close down the borders.

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:29pm: So your grand scheme is to build a wall around the middle east and let the carnage begin? not quite, but close enough for the purposes of this discussion freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:29pm: Would you consider it a form of interference to slaughter all the Arabs trying to get past it? no

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

Can you explain how the fact that you blame the west for ISIS leads you to conclude that ISIS is unlikely to expand if given the opportunity?

t told you .. I think they'll either sort their sh1t out, or kill each other


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

Because you keep going on about what works and what doesn't

Ahh, I see you have comprehension issues.

I merely suggested an alternative to doing the same thing over and over again. An alternative of which the main aim was designed to solve AUSTRALIAS problem. The ME can blow itself to smithereens for all I care.


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

BTW, what did you mean by "get involved" here?

the defense forces have all sorts of ways of getting involved FD.

John Smith wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: Can you explain how the fact that you blame the west for ISIS leads you to conclude that ISIS is unlikely to expand if given the opportunity? t told you .. I think they'll either sort their sh1t out, or kill each other freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: Because you keep going on about what works and what doesn't Ahh, I see you have comprehension issues. I merely suggested an alternative to doing the same thing over and over again. An alternative of which the main aim was designed to solve AUSTRALIAS problem. The ME can blow itself to smithereens for all I care. freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: BTW, what did you mean by "get involved" here? the defense forces have all sorts of ways of getting involved FD.

Oh, FD knows that. Apart from justifying our invasion of Iraq by bringing them Freeedom, FD has also argued Saddam was a threat to our own Freeedom and democracy.

I think FD meant Saddam was slaughtering white Australian babies in the mosques of Iraq.

Allah Uakbar, no?

Karnal wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 8:58pm: freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: Can you explain how the fact that you blame the west for ISIS leads you to conclude that ISIS is unlikely to expand if given the opportunity? t told you .. I think they'll either sort their sh1t out, or kill each other freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: Because you keep going on about what works and what doesn't Ahh, I see you have comprehension issues. I merely suggested an alternative to doing the same thing over and over again. An alternative of which the main aim was designed to solve AUSTRALIAS problem. The ME can blow itself to smithereens for all I care. freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: BTW, what did you mean by "get involved" here? the defense forces have all sorts of ways of getting involved FD. Oh, FD knows that. Apart from justifying our invasion of Iraq by bringing them Freeedom, FD has also argued Saddam was a threat to our own Freeedom and democracy. I think FD meant Saddam was slaughtering white Australian babies in the mosques of Iraq. Allah Uakbar, no?

His excuse was that they were there to install democracy


I guess he forgot to ask if they wanted it or not

John Smith wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 8:58pm: freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: Can you explain how the fact that you blame the west for ISIS leads you to conclude that ISIS is unlikely to expand if given the opportunity? t told you .. I think they'll either sort their sh1t out, or kill each other freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: Because you keep going on about what works and what doesn't Ahh, I see you have comprehension issues. I merely suggested an alternative to doing the same thing over and over again. An alternative of which the main aim was designed to solve AUSTRALIAS problem. The ME can blow itself to smithereens for all I care. freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: BTW, what did you mean by "get involved" here? the defense forces have all sorts of ways of getting involved FD. Oh, FD knows that. Apart from justifying our invasion of Iraq by bringing them Freeedom, FD has also argued Saddam was a threat to our own Freeedom and democracy. I think FD meant Saddam was slaughtering white Australian babies in the mosques of Iraq. Allah Uakbar, no? His excuse was that they were there to install democracy I guess he forgot to ask if they wanted it or not

Of course they don’t. They’re Muslims. They couldn’t give two hoots about democracy. They’re just happy taking away the Freeeeedoms of decent white people everywhere and stopping us talking about carbon taxes and sustainable fishing policies.

No, the simplest solution is to stop every one of them at the airport and ask them questions.

That could work.

Karnal wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

[ and sustainable fishing policies. No, the simplest solution is to stop every one of them at the airport and ask them endless questions. That could work.

why do that? if they have middle eastern or [pakistani passports we dont grant visas. Simples.

Quote:

t told you .. I think they'll either sort their sh1t out, or kill each other

Both options could involve ISIS or something similar growing and swallowing the middle east. ISIS is killing plenty of Muslims. What makes you think it is highly unlikely that ISIS would grow?


Quote:

I merely suggested an alternative to doing the same thing over and over again.

You did not merely suggest an alternative. You promoted it based on the status quo 'not working'. Sounds like somoene who wants to solve the middle east's problems. Either that or you want some wierd body count experiment. Which is it?

What do you mean by 'not working'?


Quote:

An alternative of which the main aim was designed to solve AUSTRALIAS problem.

What problem is that?


Quote:

the defense forces have all sorts of ways of getting involved FD

Of course they do. But the latest version of your story was that you actually meant stopping the boats.

So, let's try again - getting involved... closing down the borders... close enough to building a wall around the middle east... What does this mean John?

rhino wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:23pm: [ and sustainable fishing policies. No, the simplest solution is to stop every one of them at the airport and ask them endless questions. That could work. why do that? if they have middle eastern or [pakistani passports we dont grant visas. Simples.

Islam is not a race, Rhino. Your Muslim is cunning this way. They have Muslims in China, India, Amerika, Mother England. Ee-gad, we even have Muslims here. Remember Abu.

Lest we forget.

No, we need to expose each and every one of them as they enter our lands. Do you, Muselman, defend our Freeeedom? Are you a standard bearer? Do you support wishy-washy Westerm morality?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Both options could involve ISIS or something similar growing and swallowing the middle east. ISIS is killing plenty of Muslims. What makes you think it is highly unlikely that ISIS would grow?

Isis is there because of western interference. No west in the M.E., No isis.


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

You did not merely suggest an alternative. You promoted it based on the status quo 'not working'

why would anyone suggest an alternative if the status quo was working?


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

What do you mean by 'not working'?

generally means the opposite to 'it's working'.


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

What problem is that?

do you read your own forum?


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Of course they do. But the latest version of your story was that you actually meant stopping the boats.

you asked for how they do it. That's one of many.


freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

So, let's try again - getting involved... closing down the borders... close enough to building a wall around the middle east... What does this mean John?

it means you're getting hysterical again

Karnal wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 9:36pm:

rhino wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:25pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:23pm: [ and sustainable fishing policies. No, the simplest solution is to stop every one of them at the airport and ask them endless questions. That could work. why do that? if they have middle eastern or [pakistani passports we dont grant visas. Simples. Islam is not a race, Rhino. Your Muslim is cunning this way. They have Muslims in China, India, Amerika, Mother England. Ee-gad, we even have Muslims here. Remember Abu. Lest we forget. No, we need to expose each and every one of them as they enter our lands. Do you, Muselman, defend our Freeeedom? Are you a standard bearer? Do you support wishy-washy Westerm morality? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Seems to me the Muslims committing the violent extremist acts are from the middle east. Its not rocket science, even for a paki.

rhino wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 11:50pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:36pm: rhino wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:25pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:23pm: [ and sustainable fishing policies. No, the simplest solution is to stop every one of them at the airport and ask them endless questions. That could work. why do that? if they have middle eastern or [pakistani passports we dont grant visas. Simples. Islam is not a race, Rhino. Your Muslim is cunning this way. They have Muslims in China, India, Amerika, Mother England. Ee-gad, we even have Muslims here. Remember Abu. Lest we forget. No, we need to expose each and every one of them as they enter our lands. Do you, Muselman, defend our Freeeedom? Are you a standard bearer? Do you support wishy-washy Westerm morality? A simple yes or no will suffice. Seems to me the Muslims committing the violent extremist acts are from the middle east. Its not rocket science, even for a paki.

And yet, the Sept 11 would-be pilots came from Germany and Mother England, dear. All of the big terrorist acts carried out in Western countries this century were conducted by those born in the West, or those with Western passports.

How many generations would your policy need to take effect? I’m.curious.

Quote:

why would anyone suggest an alternative if the status quo was working?

John you really struggle remembering what we are talking about. Try to keep up. I was not questioning the logic here. I was questioning your claim that you have no interest in the middle east. Clearly, if you keep going on about whether our policies are working, and using that to justify your position, then you cannot also claim that your position is based on not caring about the middle east.


Quote:

generally means the opposite to 'it's working'.

For someone who offers their opinion so frequently John, you seem to have put remarkably little thought into this. Would you like to try again?


Quote:

do you read your own forum?

Sure. It is full of examples of you running away from your own opinion. Like this example. What problem were you referring to John? And how is it relevant to the middle east?


Quote:

you asked for how they do it. That's one of many.

So you support interfering in the middle east? How? And under what circumstances? This is your big chance John to demonstrate that there is more to your blather than chanting hollow mantras.


Quote:

it means you're getting hysterical again

It means you have nothing John. No ideas. No thoughts. No argument. Just a few three word mantras you blurt out constantly. Your opinion disappears into thin air the moment anyone tries to look at it.

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

John you really struggle remembering what we are talking about.

oh I know exactly what I'm talking about.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

I was questioning your claim that you have no interest in the middle east.

we don't, apart from oil.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

Clearly, if you keep going on about whether our policies are working, and using that to justify your position, then you cannot also claim that your position is based on not caring about the middle east.

Oh yes I can


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

Would you like to try again?

no, it's a fairly obvious statement that I shouldn't need to explain.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

Sure. It is full of examples of you running away from your own opinion.

It's no such thing. . As long as you stick to what I actually said, and not your fantasies about what I said, you'd see I'm fairly consistent.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

So you support interfering in the middle east?

no wonder you struggle so much.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

And under what circumstances?

none


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

This is your big chance John to demonstrate that there is more to your blather than chanting hollow mantras.

What makes you think I'm interested in demonstrating anything to anyone? Besides, I'm waiting for you to lead the way FD. One day you'll actually form an opinion and follow it through.


freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

It means you have nothing John. No ideas. No thoughts. No argument. Just a few three word mantras you blurt out constantly. Your opinion disappears into thin air the moment anyone tries to look at it.

it's really not a very difficult concept, even for you. I don't understand why you pretend to struggle so much with it. Just stop meddling in the Middle Easts affairs. Very Simple. Your argument that we have to go there and interfere because if we don't they might grow into something we don't like is a load of sh1t. That you have to resort to 1300 yr old wars as justification puts that beyond any doubt.
We've had many middle Eastern nutbags threaten the west before ISIS. We've never had as many problem with the ME as we do now. 

Newsflash for you FD .. things have moved on the in the last 1300 yrs or so. Our armies no longer use swords and spears and they now have the ability to wipe out the M.E. altogether without ever having to leave their bases if they had to. The wests problem is that they don't like Islamic ideology and are determined to instill their ideology into the middle east. That's a load of bullsh1t and it's the same thing you complain about them trying to do in the West. Like their ideology or not, it's their country and their decision on how they live.

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:50pm:

Like their ideology or not, it's their country and their decision on how they live.

Well WTF are they queuing up to cross borders illegally into other countries?

Jeez Jack, keep up!

Fuzzball wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 29th, 2016 at 12:50pm: Like their ideology or not, it's their country and their decision on how they live. Well WTF are they queuing up to cross borders illegally into other countries? Jeez Jack, keep up!

that might have something to do with all the bombs falling on their heads.

ISIS is just a new name of the same evil that has always existed. Go back through time and there is always some Islamic group causing shlt in the Middle East. This whole 'Blame the west' rubbish is the response of people who know absolutely nothing about the Middle East and the impact Islam has had on it.

Just to spell it out for those who don't have enough time to read at least one history book (yet seem to have no problem living on this forum all day pumping out over 10,000 posts per year), there is always some group of Muslims wanting to rule the Middle East and then conquer the lands around it as their own. At times in the last 1400 years it may get a bit quiet for a decade or two, but inevitably there is another group wanting to purify the land for Allah. Sometimes they rule from a thrown, other times they rule from a cave, but there is always some group of devotees wanting to bring about the perfect Islamic supernation.

Anyone still thinking this is because the west dropped a few bombs in Iraq or dug up some oil 100 years ago is not only fooling themselves, but also making a fool of themselves.

Yadda said......
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469753639/1#1

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

Your opinion disappears into thin air the moment anyone tries to look at it.

Strange. The 2007 FD said exactly the same thing.

You should have told him off, FD. Better still, you should have asked him questions.

Yadda wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 1:44pm:

Yadda said...... http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469753639/1#1

Much better. Good work, Y.

Quote:

we don't, apart from oil.

So how can you justify your argument by insisting what we do isn't working? Whether it is working implies an interest in the middle east. You cannot claim to understand what is happening there at the same time as insisting you do not care. Not if you want to be consistent, at least.


Quote:

Oh yes I can

You have to be interested in the middle east to know whether it is working John.


Quote:

As long as you stick to what I actually said

But you don't say anything John. You run away. Or you get all confused if I don't quote the last ten posts in the exchange to keep you up to speed.


Quote:

none

If you do not support intervening, why did you suggest we intervene?


Quote:

Besides, I'm waiting for you to lead the way FD.

You want me to lead the way on your opinion?


Quote:

Just stop meddling in the Middle Easts affairs. Very Simple. Your argument that we have to go there and interfere because if we don't they might grow into something we don't like is a load of sh1t. That you have to resort to 1300 yr old wars as justification puts that beyond any doubt.

I resrt to ISIS to justify this point. That is today John.


Quote:

Newsflash for you FD .. things have moved on the in the last 1300 yrs or so. Our armies no longer use swords and spears and they now have the ability to wipe out the M.E. altogether without ever having to leave their bases if they had to. The wests problem is that they don't like Islamic ideology and are determined to instill their ideology into the middle east. That's a load of bullsh1t and it's the same thing you complain about them trying to do in the West.

The difference is that I am right and they are wrong. Freedom and democracy is better than islamic theocracy. I think you'll find plenty of Iraqis agree with me. I bet plenty of Germans are also grateful we interfered with their attempt to have their way with Europe.


Quote:

Like their ideology or not, it's their country and their decision on how they live.

It is only their decision if they have democracy John. Surely you understand this much at least.


Quote:

that might have something to do with all the bombs falling on their heads

John has it ever occured to you that they might not like ISIS? They might be fleeing ISIS?

John before you run away or escape into your own little bubble of confusion, here are some examples of you suggesting we intervene, but being remarkably reluctant to give any details that involve actual intervention. Why is that? Did you forget saying these things?


John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:56pm: So what happens when ISIS or something similar swallows the middle east and keeps expanding? I think that is very unlikely, but so as to amuse you I'll play along .... then we get involved

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:12pm: And what are you going to do about the millions of refugees and terrorists streaming out of the middle east ahead of the advancing Caliphate? Build a wall? close down the borders.

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:29pm: So your grand scheme is to build a wall around the middle east and let the carnage begin? not quite, but close enough for the purposes of this discussion freediver wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:29pm: Would you consider it a form of interference to slaughter all the Arabs trying to get past it? no

John Smith wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:50pm: BTW, what did you mean by "get involved" here? the defense forces have all sorts of ways of getting involved FD.

John Smith wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 11:44pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 28th, 2016 at 9:25pm: Of course they do. But the latest version of your story was that you actually meant stopping the boats. you asked for how they do it. That's one of many.

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 6:55pm:

Why is that? Did you forget saying these things?

You're not doing real well at this, are you? I know what I said. I thought it was rather obvious but for some reason you seem to struggle. We intervene only if our borders are threatened, and with everything at our disposal if we have to. Until then, its none of our business and we should stay out of the ME.

So we wait until after Europe, America, Asia and Africa have fallen, then we decide to pull our finger out?

Great strategy there John. Any other bright ideas?

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 9:44pm:

So we wait until after Europe, America, Asia and Africa have fallen, then we decide to pull our finger out? Great strategy there John. Any other bright ideas?

Yes, take a valium

So what about New Zealand. Would you ask them to help us out, or would you tell them to take a valium and wait for a knock on the door?

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

So what about New Zealand. Would you ask them to help us out, or would you tell them to take a valium and wait for a knock on the door?

valium

And what about Tonga? Would you prescribe valium for them also while they watched Australia then New Zealand fall?

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 10:44pm:

And what about Tonga? Would you prescribe valium for them also while they watched Australia then New Zealand fall?

Valium FD ... anyone who thinks Isis will defeat the  Europe, America, Asia and Africa should stock up on Valium ... and lots of it. It doesn't matter if they come from NZ , Tonga, the Galapagos Islands and anywhere  in between.

Have you ever considered a career in military strategy?

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 10:54pm:

Have you ever considered a career in military strategy?

do you think I should?

Were you lying about what you would propose for Australia, NZ and Tonga because you think the scenario would never happen?

I recommend carpet bombing of  Raqqa.

Totally destroy the whole city & everything within 100 miles of it.

Teach these ISIS freaks a lesson as to what 1st world countries with their advanced military complex is capable of doing.

It can all be done with air power & without using nuclear weapons.

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 10:51pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 29th, 2016 at 10:44pm: And what about Tonga? Would you prescribe valium for them also while they watched Australia then New Zealand fall? Valium FD ... anyone who thinks Isis will defeat the  Europe, America, Asia and Africa should stock up on Valium ... and lots of it. It doesn't matter if they come from NZ , Tonga, the Galapagos Islands and anywhere  in between.

John, seriously, can you give me any reasons why they won't defeat us?..our society is slowly being eroded by people like yourself whom seem to believe it can't be eroded so therefore "let's have a bit of fun eh!"..don't you get it?..it certainly can be destroyed because it is built on trust?...once the tritors have destroyed that trust then what society I wonder do they propose to live in?..I suggest there won't be one...

brumbie wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 11:53pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 29th, 2016 at 10:51pm: freediver wrote on Jul 29th, 2016 at 10:44pm: And what about Tonga? Would you prescribe valium for them also while they watched Australia then New Zealand fall? Valium FD ... anyone who thinks Isis will defeat the  Europe, America, Asia and Africa should stock up on Valium ... and lots of it. It doesn't matter if they come from NZ , Tonga, the Galapagos Islands and anywhere  in between. John, seriously, can you give me any reasons why they won't defeat us?..our society is slowly being eroded by people like yourself whom seem to believe it can't be eroded so therefore "let's have a bit of fun eh!".

Real estate agents?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 11:31pm:

I recommend carpet bombing of  Raqqa. Totally destroy the whole city & everything within 100 miles of it. Teach these ISIS freaks a lesson as to what 1st world countries with their advanced military complex is capable of doing. It can all be done with air power & without using nuclear weapons.

We tried that, Bobbie.

The Muselman emerged from their bomb shelters Allah Uakbarring and shooting at the sky.

I’m not sure if this was in accordance with the DP.

Karnal wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:20am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 29th, 2016 at 11:31pm: I recommend carpet bombing of  Raqqa. Totally destroy the whole city & everything within 100 miles of it. Teach these ISIS freaks a lesson as to what 1st world countries with their advanced military complex is capable of doing. It can all be done with air power & without using nuclear weapons. We tried that, Bobbie. The Muselman emerged from their bomb shelters Allah Uakbarring and shooting at the sky. I’m not sure if this was in accordance with the DP.

Dear Karnal,

Raqqa still stands as their capital - many years later.

This is unacceptable.

namaste

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2016 at 11:19pm:

Were you lying about what you would propose for Australia, NZ and Tonga because you think the scenario would never happen?

impossible? no, nothing is impossible..  just like it's also possible that one day a UFO may one day attack earth ... however is it likely? I don't think so

Obviously it is not likely, because people are not stupid and spineless enough to adopt your suggestions for foreign policy. But if they did, it would be very likely that something like this would happen.

If it did actually happen, you would come to your senses before they actually reached Australia, wouldn't you?

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

Obviously it is not likely, because people are not stupid and spineless enough to adopt your suggestions for foreign policy. But if they did, it would be very likely that something like this would happen.

Sounding a bit kranky there, if you don’t mind me saying, FD.

Try thinking of a few of your favourite things.

Decent white people all covered in Freeedom, blowing up cities containing the Muslims, cartoons of Moh sitting down for a dump, these are a few of my favourite things.

Nice carbon taxes, sustainable fishing, we’ll return to these policies when we’ve dealt with the Muslims. Ban.them and nuke them and cesterete them too, a healthy obsession that’s favourite too.

Stinky black burqas and women with  whiskers

clapped out Econovan all filled up with cretins

Brown paper explosives all  tied up with strings

These are a few of Karnal's favorite things

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

Obviously it is not likely

see, now that you've finally realised that, maybe you can sleep soundly. Now try to get some shut eye .. I think the stress of worrying about the Muslim invasion is getting to you.


freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

But if they did, it would be very likely that something like this would happen.

Valium FD. Double the dose if it doesn't work.

The key argument in support of your position - that it is unlikely - relies on the wholesale rejection of your position by those who understand what the consequences would be.

If it did actually happen, you would come to your senses before they actually reached Australia, wouldn't you?

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 12:59pm:

The key argument in support of your position - that it is unlikely - relies on the wholesale rejection of your position by those who understand what the consequences would be.

you seem to mistake 'stay out of their business' for 'don't defend yourself' ...  do you think they mean the same thing?

No.

It's OK. I understand that you are embarrassed to put your ideas into words. Feel free to disown them at any time.

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:08pm:

No. It's OK. I understand that you are embarrassed to put your ideas into words. Feel free to disown them at any time.

You're not having a good day are you? And you think pulling random stupid comments out of your arse is going to help it get better?

I'm not disowning anything. My position was, and remains, that we have no business getting involved in middle eastern affairs. We've been trying to 'fix' their problems for over 100 yrs. It hasn't worked. It's time to try something different, get out and leave them to sort it out or they can kill each other trying.

And by "trying something different", you mean doing nothing at all don't you? Until they turn up on our doorstep of course.

If it did actually happen, you would come to your senses before they actually reached Australia, wouldn't you?

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:36pm:

And by "trying something different", you mean doing nothing at all don't you?

exactly ... we don't get involved. It's none of your business what they do. If they want to kill each other, so be it.


freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:36pm:

Until they turn up on our doorstep of course

then it is your business.


freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:36pm:

If it did actually happen, you would come to your senses before they actually reached Australia, wouldn't you?

no need .... they'd be wiped off the planet long before they got to Australia ... or do you think Israel (or any of the other countries they border) will just sit there and let them take over?

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:08pm:

No. It's OK. I understand that you are embarrassed to put your ideas into words. Feel free to disown them at any time.

Yes, FD did say this.

Karnal wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 6:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2016 at 1:08pm: No. It's OK. I understand that you are embarrassed to put your ideas into words. Feel free to disown them at any time. Yes, FD did say this.

;D ;D

Quote:

exactly ... we don't get involved. It's none of your business what they do. If they want to kill each other, so be it.

So only Australian citizens inside Australia are worthy of my interest?


Quote:

no need .... they'd be wiped off the planet long before they got to Australia

Who by?


Quote:

or do you think Israel (or any of the other countries they border) will just sit there and let them take over?

That's what Syria and Iraq were doing. Luckily for them, other countries decided to stick their nose in. I would expect they would leave Israel alone for a while and focus on taking Muslim dominated countries in the middle east and North Africa.

Don't you also think western countries should stop assisting Israel?

John Smith wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 1:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2016 at 1:08pm: No. It's OK. I understand that you are embarrassed to put your ideas into words. Feel free to disown them at any time. You're not having a good day are you? And you think pulling random stupid comments out of your arse is going to help it get better? I'm not disowning anything. My position was, and remains, that we have no business getting involved in middle eastern affairs. We've been trying to 'fix' their problems for over 100 yrs. It hasn't worked. It's time to try something different, get out and leave them to sort it out or they can kill each other trying.

The only trouble with that mate is that when we follow that advice...the lefties then say we were wrong because these people are now killing, raping and committing genocide and heh we gotta do somethink....it's sick, just sick how the leftards bring politics into genocide.

firstly brumbie .. get over this leftie v's rightie crap ... Islamophobia isn't limited to the right.
Secondly, you will always have those that are unhappy with what you do

in the end, it really makes no difference. The only difference is the outcome.

Quote:

in the end, it really makes no difference. The only difference is the outcome.

Did you think about this one before posting it?