And of course he's right.
He's usually right and he's not wrong about this.

The Muslim boy promised he would get the troops home. (Granted they shouldn't have been there at all and absolutely the Iraq army shouldn't have been disbanded)
But he brought too many home against all advice about the consequences.
Result: power vacuum.

Second, he championed, in fact he encouraged, all these Arab Spring movements. He actually supported the Muslim Brotherhood.
The reality was only the dictatorships were suppressing the terrorist groups.
Result: further spread of IS and All Qaeda.

So he is in a lot of ways responsible for IS.

Right again Donald. They might pull you down but the people will know who is telling the truth.
And it's not Abu bin Obama and it's not Hillary Lying Clinton.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

And of course he's right. He's usually right and he's not wrong about this. The Muslim boy promised he would get the troops home. (Granted they shouldn't have been there at all and absolutely the Iraq army shouldn't have been disbanded) But he brought too many home against all advice about the consequences. Result: power vacuum. Second, he championed, in fact he encouraged, all these Arab Spring movements. He actually supported the Muslim Brotherhood. The reality was only the dictatorships were suppressing the terrorist groups. Result: further spread of IS and All Qaeda. So he is in a lot of ways responsible for IS. Right again Donald. They might pull you down but the people will know who is telling the truth. And it's not Abu bin Obama and it's not Hillary Lying Clinton.

Ok so Alex Jones @ infowars is your unbiased news source

---

I should discuss with someone who thinks I can't disringuish between ABC (US) and ABC ( Aus)?

You've become an arthritic leftist relic of a bygone age.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:44pm:

I should discuss with someone who thinks I can't disringuish between ABC (US) and ABC ( Aus)? You've become an arthritic leftist relic of a bygone age.

You've trashed world news organisations who have been for decades trusted sources in favour of infowars & Breibart & you have the nerve to throw insults at me?

Now I'm an advocate for never believe anything you see or hear without at least 4 independent sources & fully agree most news agencies spend more time creating than reporting but really have a go at it

http://www.breitbart.com/

And you had the gall in the past to criticise Cricky, I.A & New Matilda.

You've become a shadow of the conservative independent thinker I used to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6SUtqt_wq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjOCdhZL3g


Trump is saying what many have said here for years

The Caliph announced the Caliphate on Obuuma's watch.

There was no IS in Libya before the Kenyan's Arab spring, Libya abandoned their WMD program when they saw what Bush did to Iraq.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

The Caliph announced the Caliphate on Obuuma's watch. There was no IS in Libya before the Kenyan's Arab spring, Libya abandoned their WMD program when they saw what Bush did to Iraq.

And the Republican Party was cheering, nay demanding president Obama supplied arms to the rebels in Syria to overthrow the Russian backed Assad.
What short memories you have

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 5:39pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 5:35pm: The Caliph announced the Caliphate on Obuuma's watch. There was no IS in Libya before the Kenyan's Arab spring, Libya abandoned their WMD program when they saw what Bush did to Iraq. And the Republican Party was cheering, nay demanding president Obama supplied arms to the rebels in Syria to overthrow the Russian backed Assad. What short memories you have

The republicans aren't in power ya dopey dim wit.

Assad is backed by Iran, his father whacked the muslim brothelhood with the Hama massacre in 1982.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 5:48pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 5:39pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 5:35pm: The Caliph announced the Caliphate on Obuuma's watch. There was no IS in Libya before the Kenyan's Arab spring, Libya abandoned their WMD program when they saw what Bush did to Iraq. And the Republican Party was cheering, nay demanding president Obama supplied arms to the rebels in Syria to overthrow the Russian backed Assad. What short memories you have The republicans aren't in power ya dopey dim wit. Assad is backed by Iran, his father whacked the muslim brothelhood with the Hama massacre in 1982.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/08/mitt-romney-arm-syrian-rebels

LOL the ultimate get out of goal card

Do as we say
It blows up in your face
we aren't responsible


Quote:

Mitt Romney will call for an escalation of the conflict in Syria by arming rebels with the heavy weapons needed to confront president Bashar al-Assad's tanks, helicopters and fighter jets. Romney is to make the proposal on Monday in what his campaign team has billed as a major foreign policy speech in Lexington, Virginia. In extracts published in advance, he opened up the prospect, if he becomes president, of a US-Iranian proxy war being fought in Syria.

Obama inherited the situation in Iraq. If anyone wants to blame him for it, they need to look at the Bush Adminstration first. It isn't like Iraq was a peaceful democracy when Obama took over. The invasion was not sold to congress as colonisation. It was supposed to be over in a few years. The United States could not occupy Iraq indefinitely, and when they pulled out most of the troops, the worst Muzlim sch1tz took over. (except around Baghdad.) All the Muzlim head hunters had to do is wait. It was obvious day one.

The problem with Obama is that he's doing the same stupid thing in Syria, and Trump will too.

issuevoter wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 9:46pm:

Obama inherited the situation in Iraq. If anyone wants to blame him for it, they need to look at the Bush Adminstration first. It isn't like Iraq was a peaceful democracy when Obama took over.

The USA withdrew from Iraq in late 2011 under Obama, the Caliphate was declared on June 29 2014.

The caliphate was declared under Democrat rule, the Islamic revolution in Iran happened under Democrats.

I started this thread in 2012 which had posters over the Middle east saying Iraq is safe, take note of what our former Islam moderator Abu Rashid said-
ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877013

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 10:02pm:

issuevoter wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:46pm: Obama inherited the situation in Iraq. If anyone wants to blame him for it, they need to look at the Bush Adminstration first. It isn't like Iraq was a peaceful democracy when Obama took over. The USA withdrew from Iraq in late 2011 under Obama, the Caliphate was declared on June 29 2014. The caliphate was declared under Democrat rule, the Islamic revolution in Iran happened under Democrats. I started this thread in 2012 which had posters over the Middle east saying Iraq is safe, take note of what our former Islam moderator Abu Rashid said- ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877013

Islamic State in Syria was started by Islam.

Of course radical Islam founded it. Trump's statement is rhetorical. This is an election.
But talking about getting the troops home asap and then doing it absolutely created that power vacuum.

Obama created the power vacuum, he opened the door for IS.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 7:09am:

Obama created the power vacuum, he opened the door for IS.

Without doubt, and Clinton was at his side.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

Granted they shouldn't have been there at all and absolutely the Iraq army shouldn't have been disbanded

see boges, you managed to shoot down your own argument before you even started  :D :D :D

No I don't think so John. I freely agree a big doozy of a mistake was made.
But it should not have been compounded by throwing up hands and walking away just for the votes, all the while muttering "yes we can".

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

No I don't think so John. I freely agree a big doozy of a mistake was made. But it should not have been compounded by throwing up hands and walking away just for the votes, all the while muttering "yes we can".

milk was spilt ... it was to late to try to cork the bottle after the fact. There was always going to be a power vacuum. Unless you expected the west to stay there indefinitely.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

And of course he's right. He's usually right and he's not wrong about this. The Muslim boy promised he would get the troops home. (Granted they shouldn't have been there at all and absolutely the Iraq army shouldn't have been disbanded) But he brought too many home against all advice about the consequences. Result: power vacuum. Second, he championed, in fact he encouraged, all these Arab Spring movements. He actually supported the Muslim Brotherhood. The reality was only the dictatorships were suppressing the terrorist groups. Result: further spread of IS and All Qaeda.

Nice try Boges, but I'm afraid Trump himself objects to this interpretation of his comments:


Quote:

Trump was asked by host Hugh Hewitt about the comments Trump made Wednesday night in Florida, and Hewitt said he understood Trump to mean "that he (Obama) created the vacuum, he lost the peace." Trump objected. "No, I meant he's the founder of ISIS," Trump said.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

He's usually right ...

Why lie, Mr Bogarde?

"PolitiFact found that 78 percent of the 96 Trump statements it reviewed were either “mostly false,” “false” or “pants-on-fire” false, the highest percentage by far in the current field of presidential candidates."

The Washington Post

Politifact

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

He's usually right ...

Not even close.

"It’s been a banner year for political whoppers — and for one teller of tall tales in particular: Donald Trump.

"In the 12 years of FactCheck.org’s existence, we’ve never seen his match.

"He stands out not only for the sheer number of his factually false claims, but also for his brazen refusals to admit error when proven wrong."

factcheck.org

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

He's usually right ...

"Trump boasted that he “predicted Osama bin Laden.”

"Nope.

"The book Trump published in 2000 mentioned bin Laden once, and predicted nothing about bin Laden’s future plans." Liar

"Trump “heard” that Obama is “thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take your guns away.” If so, he misheard. What Obama reportedly considered was requiring large-volume private gun dealers to conduct background checks, not confiscating firearms from those who own them."

Another Trump Lie

Boges has clearly got swept away in this Trump hysteria - to the point it has made him completely irrational.

I was actually surprised to see him in siege mode over this issue. I remember when I heard the story on the news this morning I thought to myself 'surely not even Boges will support this'.

Poor Boges, lets just for a moment ignore the fact that Trump is headed for an almighty landslide defeat against someone who would otherwise be the least likable candidate - and focus on this hopeless fantasy he has conjured up about some anti-establishment, anti-PC warrior who is going to magically sweep away all this corrupt big-business oligarchy and bring power back to the little man.

What a joke - I mean Trump of all people? Really, can you think of someone who is more emblematic of big business and elite establishment? The billionaire who inherited all his wealth (and is actually worse off financially now than he would have been had he just hidden his money away in investments and lived in a monastry all his life), and has no track record of 'standing up for the little man' - other than to exploit them and make money off them. Sorry Boges, but if by some miracle Trump does win (and for the record, before the Khan fiasco, I really believed he had a real shot) - he will be every bit the same establishment, pro-business, do-nothing-to-rock-the-boat President thats ever been. In fact I actually think 'warmonger' Hillary will be far more a threat to global security than Trump. Its almost worth seeing Trump win just to see the collective disillusionment on the fan-boys faces as he spectacularly fails to be the messiah.

And just think, if the repugs had selected pretty much any other candidate but Trump, they would likely romp home against Hillary.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

Boges has clearly got swept away in this Trump hysteria - to the point it has made him completely irrational.

You got that right.

Boges: "He's usually right ... "

Not even close, Mr 73.

“What’s unusual about Trump is he’s a leading candidate and he seems to have no interest in getting important things factually correct.” Liar Trump

Of course he's right. He's the only one who wants to keep Muslims out, no?

"Trump: 'Real unemployment rate' is 42 percent".

Wrong, Mr Trump.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Of course he's right. He's the only one who wants to keep Muslims out, no?

But haven't you heard boges? - he doesn't.

He's backpeddled on that - now its only muslims from nations that are a security risk

"Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11"

Wrong, Mr Trump.

Excuse me Greg but none of your quoted & linked sources are social media therefore they are bias against Trump.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 9:26am:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 4:25pm: He's usually right ... Why lie, Mr Bogarde? "PolitiFact found that 78 percent of the 96 Trump statements it reviewed were either “mostly false,” “false” or “pants-on-fire” false, the highest percentage by far in the current field of presidential candidates." The Washington Post Politifact

PolitiFact? Too funny. :D :D :D

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 9:26am: bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 4:25pm: He's usually right ... Why lie, Mr Bogarde? "PolitiFact found that 78 percent of the 96 Trump statements it reviewed were either “mostly false,” “false” or “pants-on-fire” false, the highest percentage by far in the current field of presidential candidates." The Washington Post Politifact PolitiFact? Too funny.

What are you saying?

And, be precise.

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 9:26am: bogarde73 wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 4:25pm: He's usually right ... Why lie, Mr Bogarde? "PolitiFact found that 78 percent of the 96 Trump statements it reviewed were either “mostly false,” “false” or “pants-on-fire” false, the highest percentage by far in the current field of presidential candidates." The Washington Post Politifact PolitiFact? Too funny.

What do you find funny - their Pulitzer Prize?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:22pm:

What are you saying? And, be precise.

You mean you can't do your own research? PolitiFact is biased. Is that precise enough?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:28pm:

What do you find funny - their Pulitzer Prize?

Wow. One hit and suddenly they are World's Best journalists? 8 years ago? Do you think staff may have changed if nothing else?

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:31pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:28pm: What do you find funny - their Pulitzer Prize? Wow. One hit and suddenly they are World's Best journalists? 8 years ago? Do you think staff may have changed if nothing else?

Let's not shoot the messenger, okay?

Are you saying that they lied about Trump?

If not, what is it that you find funny?

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:31pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:28pm: What do you find funny - their Pulitzer Prize? Wow. One hit and suddenly they are World's Best journalists? 8 years ago? Do you think staff may have changed if nothing else?

Which of these do you disagree with?

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:32pm:

Let's not shoot the messenger, okay? Are you saying that they lied about Trump? If not, what is it that you find funny?

How about they lie about Hillary? ;)

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:33pm:

Which of these do you disagree with? http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

You still don't get it, do you? I don't think either are suitable. But you seem to think otherwise, which is your prerogative.

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:33pm: Which of these do you disagree with? http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ You still don't get it, do you? I don't think either are suitable. But you seem to think otherwise, which is your prerogative.

You obviously haven't read my posts.

I am not a Hillary fan. Quite the opposite.

I'm merely pointing out that Trump is not "usually right".

Boge's opening statement was pure fantasy.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:51pm:

You obviously haven't read my posts.

Invariably not. ;)

So on this we agree? woo-hoo.

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 12:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:51pm: You obviously haven't read my posts. Invariably not. ;) So on this we agree? woo-hoo.

Indeed.

Just because I think Trump is the biggest ass-clown who ever lived, it doesn't mean that I like or support Hillary.

She will win, though.

Well Sportebet may take it for you.

At $1.22 good odds if you are certain.

Cassius Clay may have been the greatest, but the Donald is not far behind:

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on Wednesday accused President Barack Obama of founding the Islamic State group.

Addressing supporters at a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, the real estate tycoon said the jihadist group is "honoring President Obama."

"He is the founder of ISIS," Trump said.

"He's the founder of ISIS, OK?" he added. "He's the founder! He founded ISIS."

The brash billionaire went on to criticize his Democratic rival for the White House.

"And I would say, the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton," he said.
**
I love it!

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 3:43pm:

Cassius Clay may have been the greatest, but the Donald is not far behind: Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on Wednesday accused President Barack Obama of founding the Islamic State group. Addressing supporters at a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, the real estate tycoon said the jihadist group is "honoring President Obama." "He is the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "He's the founder of ISIS, OK?" he added. "He's the founder! He founded ISIS." The brash billionaire went on to criticize his Democratic rival for the White House. "And I would say, the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton," he said. ** I love it!

Yes, you do seem to love lies.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 3:57pm:

Yes, you do seem to love lies.

first abbott, now thrump

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 3:57pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:43pm: Cassius Clay may have been the greatest, but the Donald is not far behind: Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on Wednesday accused President Barack Obama of founding the Islamic State group. Addressing supporters at a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, the real estate tycoon said the jihadist group is "honoring President Obama." "He is the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "He's the founder of ISIS, OK?" he added. "He's the founder! He founded ISIS." The brash billionaire went on to criticize his Democratic rival for the White House. "And I would say, the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton," he said. ** I love it! Yes, you do seem to love lies.

leftys have been saying this for years.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 5:39pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:57pm: bogarde73 wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:43pm: Cassius Clay may have been the greatest, but the Donald is not far behind: Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on Wednesday accused President Barack Obama of founding the Islamic State group. Addressing supporters at a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, the real estate tycoon said the jihadist group is "honoring President Obama." "He is the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "He's the founder of ISIS, OK?" he added. "He's the founder! He founded ISIS." The brash billionaire went on to criticize his Democratic rival for the White House. "And I would say, the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton," he said. ** I love it! Yes, you do seem to love lies. leftys have been saying this for years.

Because righties have been loving lies, and liars, for years.

What's the attraction?

It seems to be a general consensus that IS didn't exist before Abu bin unfortunately assumed office.
It has multiplied, murdered, infiltrated Europe under his watch and especially while Brain- damaged was at the State Dept.

The Obama/Clinton team can therefore be said to be accountable for the founding of IS.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2016 at 7:58am:

It seems to be a general consensus that IS didn't exist before Abu bin unfortunately assumed office. It has multiplied, murdered, infiltrated Europe under his watch and especially while Brain- damaged was at the State Dept. The Abbott team can therefore be said to be accountable for the founding of IS.

WND:
Donald Trump’s declaration this week at a campaign rally that President Obama and Hillary Clinton “founded” ISIS drew outrage from establishment media, and the Republican nominee now insists he was being sarcastic, but a Defense Intelligence Agency document declassified last year shows the Obama administration was warned in 2012 that if it continued its policies, a radical Islamic regime could form in Eastern Syria.
Writing in Chronicles magazine, Jim Jatras, a former U.S. diplomat and foreign policy adviser to the Senate GOP leadership, cited a DIA report in August 2012 that was declassified and released last year under a Freedom of Information Act request from Judicial Watch.

Hillary Clinton was secretary of state at the time under President Obama.
The report said “there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in Eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime.”

The “supporting powers” are identified as “the West, Gulf countries, and Turkey.”

Jatras, as Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch blog reported, summarized the report saying that if the U.S. and its proxies kept aiding al-Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood and other “rebel” groups fighting the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad, a jihadist state would arise in the country.

Several months later, ISIS declared itself a state straddling the Syria-Iraq border.
Report ‘made no difference’

Jatras pointed out that Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, currently a Trump adviser, took over as head of DIA a month before the report was issued.

“Whether it was his personal effort to caution the administration or simply the professional analysts in the DIA apparatus laying out the facts as they saw them, the 2012 report made no difference,” Jatras writes.

In an interview last year with Mehdi Hasan of Al Jazeera, Flynn said the formation of an ISIS state wasn’t a matter of the administration turning a “blind eye.” It was a “willful decision.”

Hasan: You are basically saying that even in government at the time you knew these groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it, but who wasn’t listening?

Flynn: I think the administration.
Hasan: So the administration turned a blind eye to your analysis?

Flynn: I don’t know that they turned a blind eye, I think it was a decision. I think it was a willful decision.

Hasan: A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood?

Flynn: It was a willful decision to do what they’re doing.

Islamic state a ‘strategic opportunity’

In May 2015, Nafeez Ahmed, an investigative journalist and international security scholar, reported the DIA document provided “no indication of any decision to reverse the policy of support to the Syrian rebels.”

“On the contrary, the emergence of an al-Qaeda affiliated ‘Salafist Principality’ as a result is described as a strategic opportunity to isolate Assad.”
Ahmed noted that at the time, media reports focused on the report’s evidence that the Obama administration knew of arms supplies from a Libyan terrorist stronghold to rebels in Syria.

He wrote that the DIA document “confirms that the main component of the anti-Assad rebel forces by this time comprised Islamist insurgents affiliated to groups that would lead to the emergence of ISIS.”

“Despite this, these groups were to continue receiving support from Western militaries and their regional allies,” he wrote.

Ahmed said the Pentagon document explicitly forecasted the declaration of “an Islamic State through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria.”
Nevertheless, “Western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey are supporting these efforts” by Syrian “opposition forces” fighting to “control the eastern areas (Hasaka and Der Zor), adjacent to Western Iraqi provinces (Mosul and Anbar).”

Ahmed said that in response to his questions about the strategy, the British government “simply denied the Pentagon report’s startling revelations of deliberate Western sponsorship of violent extremists in Syria.”

A British Foreign Office spokesman told him:


AQ (Al-Qaida) and ISIL (ISIS) are proscribed terrorist organisations. The UK opposes all forms of terrorism. AQ, ISIL, and their affiliates pose a direct threat to the UK’s national security. We are part of a military and political coalition to defeat ISIL in Iraq and Syria, and are working with international partners to counter the threat from AQ and other terrorist groups in that region. In Syria we have always supported those moderate opposition groups who oppose the tyranny of Assad and the brutality of the extremists.