And so is anyone who uses them.

A Sydney naturopath will face trial over a raw food diet she allegedly devised for a breastfeeding mother, whose baby nearly starved to death.

Marilyn Bodnar, 60, has appeared in Campbelltown Local Court charged with recklessly causing grievous bodily harm and aiding or abetting failure to provide necessities of life to a child.

She is yet to enter a formal plea, however has indicated she will plead not guilty.

The prosecution alleges that in February 2015 a 33-year-old maternity ward nurse, who cannot be identified, went to the naturopath seeking advice for her baby son's eczema.

It is alleged Bodnar told the woman, who was still breastfeeding, the eczema was caused by toxins, which needed to be eliminated.

The court was told the naturopath devised a raw food diet for the woman, before advising her to subsist solely off water and watermelon for three days.

When relatives expressed concern over the woman's weight loss, Bodnar allegedly told her she was "fat and needed to lose weight".

The court heard the naturopath also said the baby boy's weight loss was his body's way of eliminating toxins.

The baby boy became sick and when the mother told Bodnar her child was projectile vomiting, the naturopath allegedly said it was good because he was "deeply eliminating" the toxins.

The court heard the eight-month-old boy was "just days" away from death when his mother ultimately took him to Westmead Hospital in May 2015.

Upon arrival at the hospital he weighed just 6.4 kilograms, was severely malnourished and dehydrated, had sunken eyes, dangerously low sodium levels, and flexed hands and feet.

He was also developmentally delayed, showing the equivalent skills of a three-month-old.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/sydney-naturopath-face-trial-over-alleged-raw-food-diet-advice/7734404

I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled.

rhino wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled.

Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific.
That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot.

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:39pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot.

Are all Christians idiots, Gordy?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy?

Are they naturopaths?

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths?

Their system is flawed and unscientific.

Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots?

This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them.

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:49pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them.

You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific".

Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting.

Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific.

So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots.

Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake.

I'm curious.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:53pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious.

Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been.

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been.

I'm asking you your opinion of Christians, Gordy.

Don't you have an opinion?

You're not a Muslim either, but you seem to have an awful lot of opinions on them.

Why the reluctance to comment on Christianity, Gordy?

I'm curious.

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been.

You're not a naturopath either.

mothra wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been. You're not a naturopath either.

I know 2 people who've been killed by them tho.

Quote:

Naturopaths are idiots

There are plenty of rich idiots out there.

mothra wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been. You're not a naturopath either.

Gordy:

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/50076463.jpg

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:04pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:01pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been. You're not a naturopath either. I know 2 people who've been killed by them tho.

Two? Jesus!

Do you have any idea how many people are killed by traditional medicine every year?

Every day?

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:04pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:01pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been. You're not a naturopath either. I know 2 people who've been killed by them tho.

How?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:01pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been. You're not a naturopath either. Gordy: https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/50076463.jpg

I know an awful lot about naturopaths android the bunk they peddle.

mothra wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:09pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:04pm: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:01pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:53pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:47pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots? This is a topic about naturopaths.  Open one about Christians ignore you'd like to ask a question about them. You introduced the concept of "flawed and unscientific". Don't back out now, Gordy - it's just getting interesting. Christianity - like all religions - is flawed and unscientific. So, according to your - and I'm being as generous as I can here - "logic", all Christians are idiots. Are you now going back on your claim, or are you admitting you made a mistake. I'm curious. Ask a Christian.  I'm not one and never have been. You're not a naturopath either. I know 2 people who've been killed by them tho. How?

By pushing homeopathic bullllshitt remedies and advising NOT to use science based medicine.

So they werent actually killed by the naturopath's. They died because of diseases they had that they chose alternative treatment for.

Would that be more accurate Gordy?

Or did the naturopaths force them in some way?

mothra wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

So they werent actually killed by the naturopath's. They died because of diseases they had that they chose alternative treatment for. Would that be more accurate Gordy? Or did the naturopath's force them in some way?

Yes the DPP couldn't prosecute so as usual you're 100% correct.  Happy?

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:16pm: So they werent actually killed by the naturopath's. They died because of diseases they had that they chose alternative treatment for. Would that be more accurate Gordy? Or did the naturopath's force them in some way? Yes the DPP couldn't prosecute so as usual you're 100% correct.  Happy?

Nobody is happy that they died.

It's terribly sad.

However, you're shifting the blame (as usual).

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:16pm: So they werent actually killed by the naturopath's. They died because of diseases they had that they chose alternative treatment for. Would that be more accurate Gordy? Or did the naturopath's force them in some way? Yes the DPP couldn't prosecute so as usual you're 100% correct.  Happy?

Why would I be happy that two people died?

Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not?

mothra wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:19pm: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:16pm: So they werent actually killed by the naturopath's. They died because of diseases they had that they chose alternative treatment for. Would that be more accurate Gordy? Or did the naturopath's force them in some way? Yes the DPP couldn't prosecute so as usual you're 100% correct.  Happy? Why would I be happy that two people died? Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not?

The case I know of very well, the naturapath was very well trusted by the person who died from a condition EASILY controlled by meds. The person died of their gullibility for putting their trust in the care of a naturopath.

Would you care to state your opinion of naturapthy?

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:39pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot.

Unscientific just means unknown or unproven to science.  Theres no basis to claim that the entire system of naturopathy is flawed .

alternative health practitioners can be useful if only because they don't buy into the "learned helplessness" mindset that affects patients and doctors alike ...

I once knew an osteopath who was an A1 certified idiot.  He ended up going to jail.

mothra wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not?

semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves

The first things you need know about your naturopath are whether they believe in aroma-therapy, and have they seen a flying saucer.

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 8:08am:

mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves

Nah.

It's advice, not an order.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 8:04am:

I once knew an osteopath who was an A1 certified idiot.  He ended up going to jail.

my dentist wears a toupee

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 8:38am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order.

bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth.

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 9:01am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order. bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth.

It's up to the individual whether they take the advice or not.

A doctor can't make anyone do anything.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 9:24am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:01am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order. bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth. It's up to the individual whether they take the advice or not. A doctor can't make anyone do anything.

the level of influence they have over the patient, especially someone who thinks they're dying, makes that a moot point.

Even if the individual is guilty of following advice, if it was a doctor, there would be an investigation by the registration board and the doctors registration and ability to practice as a doctor taken away for dispensing this treatement.


Does this occur for naturopaths?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 9:39am:

Even if the individual is guilty of following advice, if it was a doctor, there would be an investigation by the registration board and the doctors registration and ability to practice as a doctor taken away for dispensing this treatement. Does this occur for naturopaths?

No.

They aren't doctors.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:41pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:39pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. Conventional medical Doctors fail to cure patients all the time. On this occasion this naturopath may well be an idiot, but I know a few Doctors just as stupid, if I had of taken their advice I would probably be dead or severely crippled. Yes there are bad doctors within the system, but the entire system of naturopathy is flawed and unscientific. That's why anyone who follows it is an idiot. Are all Christians idiots, Gordy? Are they naturopaths? Their system is flawed and unscientific. Answer the question, Gordy: are all Christians idiots?

I'd say no ....but you're borderline. ::)

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 9:39am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:24am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:01am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order. bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth. It's up to the individual whether they take the advice or not. A doctor can't make anyone do anything. the level of influence they have over the patient, especially someone who thinks they're dying, makes that a moot point.

[smiley=thumbup.gif] Exactly correct

Both Peccar & Mothra are playing at semantics

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 9:01am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order. bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth.

Naturopaths aren't doctors, though.

"Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications."

If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you:

a) take it?

b) think that I should be charged with something if you die?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:01am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:01am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order. bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth. Naturopaths aren't doctors, though. "Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications." If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you: a) take it? b) think that I should be charged with something if you die?

No ... but you're not claiming you know how to treat someone

by hanging a shingle over a door & charging people for the privilege of your advice on their health issues.

So your questions are irrelevant.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:01am:

If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you: a) take it? b) think that I should be charged with something if you die?

if you gave advice claiming you were some sort of professional, then you would be liable for that advice.

Gnads wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:14am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:01am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:01am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:08am: mothra wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:26pm: Moreover, why would you accuse naturopath's of killing them when it is abundantly clear that they did not? semantics . If the naturopath advised the patient to not follow the doctors orders and the result led to their death, the naturopath may as well have killed them themselves Nah. It's advice, not an order. bullsh1t ... if a doctor gave the same advice and the patient died he'd lose his license to practice and be sued for all he's worth. Naturopaths aren't doctors, though. "Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications." If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you: a) take it? b) think that I should be charged with something if you die? No ... but you're not claiming you know how to treat someone by hanging a shingle over a door & charging people for the privilege of your advice on their health issues. So your questions are irrelevant.

Repeat after me:

"Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications."

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:18am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:01am: If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you: a) take it? b) think that I should be charged with something if you die? if you gave advice claiming you were some sort of professional, then you would be liable for that advice.

Repeat after me:

"Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications."

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 9:44am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:39am: Even if the individual is guilty of following advice, if it was a doctor, there would be an investigation by the registration board and the doctors registration and ability to practice as a doctor taken away for dispensing this treatement. Does this occur for naturopaths? No. They aren't doctors.

So why not?

http://www.australiannaturaltherapistsassociation.com.au/therapies/naturopathy.php



According to them they either act like they are regulated or want to be.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:36am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:44am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:39am: Even if the individual is guilty of following advice, if it was a doctor, there would be an investigation by the registration board and the doctors registration and ability to practice as a doctor taken away for dispensing this treatement. Does this occur for naturopaths? No. They aren't doctors. So why not?

They haven't done the training.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:19am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:18am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:01am: If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you: a) take it? b) think that I should be charged with something if you die? if you gave advice claiming you were some sort of professional, then you would be liable for that advice. Repeat after me: "Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications."

avoiding the issue I see.

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:19am: John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:18am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:01am: If I gave you medical advice on a life threatening condition, would you: a) take it? b) think that I should be charged with something if you die? if you gave advice claiming you were some sort of professional, then you would be liable for that advice. Repeat after me: "Naturopathy is an unregulated profession in Australia and there are no legalities in claiming you are a naturopath when you do not have any qualifications." avoiding the issue I see.

I'm avoiding nothing.

Anybody can claim to be a Naturopath.

Why would anyone make life and death decisions based on what they tell you?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:50am:

I'm avoiding nothing. Anybody can claim to be a Naturopath. Why would anyone make life and death decisions based on what they tell you?

They are making out they are an expert in the field of medicine. That the govt. says they're unregulated is irrelevant. Most people don't go searching for industry regulations, they're searching for a miracle. Naturapaths take advantage of the people when they are at their most susceptible. They are no better than the snake oil salesman who says he has a miracle cure for something at $100 a bottle. If you tried it you'd be jailed. Naturopaths are the same

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:54am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:50am: I'm avoiding nothing. Anybody can claim to be a Naturopath. Why would anyone make life and death decisions based on what they tell you? They are making out they are an expert in the field of medicine. That the govt. says they're unregulated is irrelevant. Most people don't go searching for industry regulations, they're searching for a miracle. Naturapaths take advantage of the people when they are at their most susceptible. They are no better than the snake oil salesman who says he has a miracle cure for something at $100 a bottle. If you tried it you'd be jailed. Naturopaths are the same

When making life and death decisions about your health, you need to do some research.

I've researched Naturopaths, and that's why I wouldn't necessarily follow their advice.

Even with traditional doctors, I always get a second opinion (at least).

soulda woulda coulda .... what patients should do doesn't change how naturopaths behave

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 11:26am:

soulda woulda coulda .... what patients should do doesn't change how naturopaths behave

Indeed.

Thus, people should always be cautious when dealing with them.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 10:57am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:54am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:50am: I'm avoiding nothing. Anybody can claim to be a Naturopath. Why would anyone make life and death decisions based on what they tell you? They are making out they are an expert in the field of medicine. That the govt. says they're unregulated is irrelevant. Most people don't go searching for industry regulations, they're searching for a miracle. Naturapaths take advantage of the people when they are at their most susceptible. They are no better than the snake oil salesman who says he has a miracle cure for something at $100 a bottle. If you tried it you'd be jailed. Naturopaths are the same When making life and death decisions about your health, you need to do some research. I've researched Naturopaths, and that's why I wouldn't necessarily follow their advice. Even with traditional doctors, I always get a second opinion (at least).

Absolutely! There is no such thing as one human person, knowing all the answers to a stranger's ailments without some thorough and time consuming research.

As for having second opinions, or even doing research, or making choices, what choice was there with this fatal mistake recently, how my heart cries for that family and that poor misfortunate baby, born to be killed in a hospital! :'( :'(

http://www.smh.com.au/video/video-news/video-nsw-news/wrong-gas-kills-newborn-baby-20160725-4ie7l.html

Naturopaths are actually no different from a stereotype witch doctor except they don't have a bone through their nose and they don't look as scary.

The three main aspects of naturopathy:
Homeopathy
Acupuncture
Herbalism
Life advice

Homeopathy
For homeopathy to work we'd need need to do a top down re-wright of everything we know about physics and chemistry.

If you believe the dilutions used in homeopathy can have an effect, it's just as plausible to believe when Obama farts in the Whitehouse, Malcolm can smell it in Point Piper.

Acupuncture
For acupuncture to work we'd need to tear up all of our medical text books. There is no mechanism in the human body where sticking a pin in your toe can effect your liver function. Apart from having a mild local effect on the immediate area treated, it does nothing and randomised double blind random placebo controlled tests have proven such. 

Herbalism
Tests of herbs used by naturopaths time and time again show wildly variable concentrations and often cross contamination of different ingredients, and often contamination of potentially dangerous pharmaceuticals are found. Herbs and supplements don't have to conform to any code of practice. Take at your peril.

Life advice
Have you ever found a GP that doesn't recommend eating more fresh fruit and veg and doing more exercise?

No one field of medicine of natural therapy holds all the answers, the best way is to take an eclectic approach to health. For example totally discounting diet as an aid to recovery or good health would be pretty stupid. I have old injuries that cant be healed by conventional medical approaches, Chinese massage therapy helps me there.

It seems that we, as consumers, take advice from doctors, who in turn take advice from drug companies who are in it to make money.

Every drug that has any effect on the body has side effects, not all are known.

But medicine has been around for centuries.
The Egyptians knew that placing a piece of moldy bread on a wound often prevented infection.
Honey, applied to a would also helps reduce infection.
Cloves help reduce tooth ache.

Many old wives tales are being revisited as some hold merit.

I'm not saying that naturopaths have all the answers, and I know doctors and chemist don't.
But some do work.
I have had acupuncture for my back and it worked wonders.
I have taken drugs to do the same with little or no effect, for years.

Judge by merit, if it works, use it. If it don't, stop.

But blindly saying that any one method is the only method is pure stupidity.

Good health starts at looking after your body.
Eating right and reducing the poisons we introduce into it.
Good natiropaths do not discount the needs of the body and the effects that the things we put in it have on it.

Good drugs, no matter how good, always have side effects and some are often worse that the desease.

Better to just eat right and exercise.

rhino wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots.

They largely subscribe to a belief that has been repeatedly debunked as pseudoscience - which is idiotic in itself. 

Valkie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 1:47pm:

It seems that we, as consumers, take advice from doctors, who in turn take advice from drug companies who are in it to make money. Every drug that has any effect on the body has side effects, not all are known. But medicine has been around for centuries. The Egyptians knew that placing a piece of moldy bread on a wound often prevented infection. Honey, applied to a would also helps reduce infection. Cloves help reduce tooth ache. Many old wives tales are being revisited as some hold merit. I'm not saying that naturopaths have all the answers, and I know doctors and chemist don't. But some do work. I have had acupuncture for my back and it worked wonders. I have taken drugs to do the same with little or no effect, for years. Judge by merit, if it works, use it. If it don't, stop. But blindly saying that any one method is the only method is pure stupidity. Good health starts at looking after your body. Eating right and reducing the poisons we introduce into it. Good natiropaths do not discount the needs of the body and the effects that the things we put in it have on it. Good drugs, no matter how good, always have side effects and some are often worse that the desease. Better to just eat right and exercise.

it



What, the scientific method?


Just a quick read of your post added to the stupidity of the planet and it is attitudes like that, that leave children un-vaccinated.


Google and Youtube are not valid sources of scientific information

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

Google and Youtube are not valid sources of scientific information

Well, they are actually.

I'd be interested in hearing why you think they aren't though.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 2:00pm: Google and Youtube are not valid sources of scientific information Well, they are actually. I'd be interested in hearing why you think they aren't though.

The two best sources on the web.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

Gordon wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:22pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 2:10pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 2:00pm: Google and Youtube are not valid sources of scientific information Well, they are actually. I'd be interested in hearing why you think they aren't though. The two best sources on the web. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

Yes, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed was going to be my come back to BigOl after he replied to my post with the inevitable "bullshit!".

Gordon wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 1:20pm:

Life advice Have you ever found a GP that doesn't recommend eating more fresh fruit and veg and doing more exercise?

never come across one who has. Most of them know how to dispense pills, thats about it.

Marla wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. They largely subscribe to a belief that has been repeatedly debunked as pseudoscience - which is idiotic in itself.

wrong.

rhino wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Marla wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 1:53pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. They largely subscribe to a belief that has been repeatedly debunked as pseudoscience - which is idiotic in itself.  wrong.

How can homeopathy work?

rhino wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:31pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 1:20pm: Life advice Have you ever found a GP that doesn't recommend eating more fresh fruit and veg and doing more exercise? never come across one who has. Most of them know how to dispense pills, thats about it.

Actually, I tend to agree with that.

The majority of them seem to reach for the prescription pad as soon as you sit down.

If everyone ate more fruit & veg, and exercised regularly, there would be less need for us to visit doctors.

They're not exactly going to make themselves redundant on purpose.

"Pharmaceutical companies spent more than $43 million treating Australian health professionals to overseas trips, dinners, lunches and getaways in just six months."

Big Pharma spends $43 million on Health professionals in Australia

Gordon wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:40pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 2:32pm: Marla wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 1:53pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. They largely subscribe to a belief that has been repeatedly debunked as pseudoscience - which is idiotic in itself.  wrong. How can homeopathy work?

Lots of things work without scientific foundation.

Gordon wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:40pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 2:32pm: Marla wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 1:53pm: rhino wrote on Aug 15th, 2016 at 8:30pm: I wouldnt hold this of indicative that Naturopaths are all idiots. They largely subscribe to a belief that has been repeatedly debunked as pseudoscience - which is idiotic in itself.  wrong. How can homeopathy work?

The placebo effect.

Mothra, would you like to share your thoughts on homeopathy?

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

Valkie wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 1:47pm: It seems that we, as consumers, take advice from doctors, who in turn take advice from drug companies who are in it to make money. Every drug that has any effect on the body has side effects, not all are known. But medicine has been around for centuries. The Egyptians knew that placing a piece of moldy bread on a wound often prevented infection. Honey, applied to a would also helps reduce infection. Cloves help reduce tooth ache. Many old wives tales are being revisited as some hold merit. I'm not saying that naturopaths have all the answers, and I know doctors and chemist don't. But some do work. I have had acupuncture for my back and it worked wonders. I have taken drugs to do the same with little or no effect, for years. Judge by merit, if it works, use it. If it don't, stop. But blindly saying that any one method is the only method is pure stupidity. Good health starts at looking after your body. Eating right and reducing the poisons we introduce into it. Good natiropaths do not discount the needs of the body and the effects that the things we put in it have on it. Good drugs, no matter how good, always have side effects and some are often worse that the desease. Better to just eat right and exercise. it What, the scientific method? Just a quick read of your post added to the stupidity of the planet and it is attitudes like that, that leave children un-vaccinated. Google and Youtube are not valid sources of scientific information

YES, We must accept that science is always right and knows it all.
That is why doctors wore beaks full of herbs to ward off the smell that caused the black plague.
That is why the great scientists of the past used blood letting as a cure for mental illness.
That is why the quacks today would rather give you pills than actually recommend a better lifestyle.

Some scientific facts that were found to be slightly wrong.
The world is Flat...............yeah that's rrrrrrrightttttttt.
Smoking is good for relaxation...............yep, and an early grave.
If you travel faster than 35 mph you will die.............We are all doomed, perhaps the RMA still believe this.
The use of electric shock, for all manner of illness.............BZZZZZZZZZ
Hysteria............the cure is quite interesting
I could go on.
Science is only as good as the scientists and the knowledge they have at their disposal.
And how do they get this knowledge, they learn and test.

Many witch doctors (as I'm sure you refer to natruopaths) have information gained from many years of real life testing.
In particular acupuncture, It has been used effectively for centuries.
OK it wont cure a heart condition or stuffed liver, but for many painful conditions that we are simply prescribed pain killers, it does work.

Discarding something just because you don't understand of believe it is, as you have stated (adding to the stupidity of the planet and it is attitudes)

Mothra,  you weighed in on this pretty early but won't give your position on homeopathy? 

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 9:41pm:

Mothra,  you weighed in on this pretty early but won't give your position on homeopathy?

i have no "position" on homeopathy but i did have a long-term chronic condition cleared up in a dramatic way some years back while seeing a classical homeopath. i get a lot of schitt when i mention this from some people but i don't give a nukkin futz cause i ain't sick any more  ;)

AiA wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 9:50pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:41pm: Mothra,  you weighed in on this pretty early but won't give your position on homeopathy?  i have no "position" on homeopathy but i did have a long-term chronic condition cleared up in a dramatic way some years back while seeing a classical homeopath. i get a lot of schitt when i mention this from some people but i don't give a nukkin futz cause i ain't sick any more  ;)

Do you know you're being sold water?
Do you know all fully randomomized double blind plecebo controlled tests shows it doesn't work?
Lastly,  wouldn't you let Penn and Teller treat a medical condition?

dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say.

Gordon wrote on Aug 15^th, 2016 at 7:37pm:

And so is anyone who uses them. A Sydney naturopath will face trial over a raw food diet she allegedly devised for a breastfeeding mother, whose baby nearly starved to death. Marilyn Bodnar, 60, has appeared in Campbelltown Local Court charged with recklessly causing grievous bodily harm and aiding or abetting failure to provide necessities of life to a child. She is yet to enter a formal plea, however has indicated she will plead not guilty. The prosecution alleges that in February 2015 a 33-year-old maternity ward nurse, who cannot be identified, went to the naturopath seeking advice for her baby son's eczema. It is alleged Bodnar told the woman, who was still breastfeeding, the eczema was caused by toxins, which needed to be eliminated. The court was told the naturopath devised a raw food diet for the woman, before advising her to subsist solely off water and watermelon for three days. When relatives expressed concern over the woman's weight loss, Bodnar allegedly told her she was "fat and needed to lose weight". The court heard the naturopath also said the baby boy's weight loss was his body's way of eliminating toxins. The baby boy became sick and when the mother told Bodnar her child was projectile vomiting, the naturopath allegedly said it was good because he was "deeply eliminating" the toxins. The court heard the eight-month-old boy was "just days" away from death when his mother ultimately took him to Westmead Hospital in May 2015. Upon arrival at the hospital he weighed just 6.4 kilograms, was severely malnourished and dehydrated, had sunken eyes, dangerously low sodium levels, and flexed hands and feet. He was also developmentally delayed, showing the equivalent skills of a three-month-old. http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/sydney-naturopath-face-trial-over-alleged-raw-food-diet-advice/7734404

In this case the mother was the idiot for unquestioningly accepting erroneous advice.

AiA wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say.

Someone prayed for you AiA. ;)

Setanta wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:57pm: dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say. Someone prayed for you AiA. ;)

Mary, Mother of God, performed a divine intervention?

AiA wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say.

What else could be at work, magic?

AiA wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:00pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:58pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:57pm: dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say. Someone prayed for you AiA. ;) Mary, Mother of God, performed a divine intervention?

Isn't it obvious?

Just checking,  you actually know what a homeopathic remedy is?

there is no reason to go into all this with me gordon. i have no position to defend. i had a condition for almost a decade. it was getting worse. i take a remedy at the homeopath's office. within 30 minutes i get a fever that shoots up so high while at the local market my wife has to drive us home. i stay in bed for 4 days thinking i am going to die. then the fever lifts. and the condition with it. dunno.

AiA wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:05pm:

there is no reason to go into all this with me gordon. i have no position to defend. i had a condition for almost a decade. it was getting worse. i take a remedy at the homeopath's office. within 30 minutes i get a fever that shoots up so high while at the local market my wife has to drive us home. i stay in bed for 4 days thinking i am going to die. then the fever lifts. and the condition with it. dunno.

Cool. Magic pills.

yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :)

AiA wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:11pm:

yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :)

Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient? 

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:15pm:

AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?

But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone.

Setanta wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:57pm: dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say. Someone prayed for you AiA. ;)

Yeah, me.

Setanta wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:17pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone.

If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck.

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:22pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:17pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone. If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck.

Why worry about it's memory of dinosaur bladders? Ducks poo in it and you know what fish do in it. Drink beer, at least then the memory will be a little hazy.

Setanta wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:39pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:22pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:17pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone. If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck. Why worry about it's memory of dinosaur bladders? Ducks poo in it and you know what fish do in it. Drink beer, at least then the memory will be a little hazy.

As they did in the olden days before hygiene was invented.  Thank bugger for fluoride.....unless your in Byron Shire :)

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:07pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:39pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:22pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:17pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone. If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck. Why worry about it's memory of dinosaur bladders? Ducks poo in it and you know what fish do in it. Drink beer, at least then the memory will be a little hazy. As they did in the olden days before hygiene was invented.  Thank bugger for fluoride.....unless your in Byron Shire :)

I think we can put that down to chlorine not fluoride.

Setanta wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:08pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:07pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:39pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:22pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:17pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone. If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck. Why worry about it's memory of dinosaur bladders? Ducks poo in it and you know what fish do in it. Drink beer, at least then the memory will be a little hazy. As they did in the olden days before hygiene was invented.  Thank bugger for fluoride.....unless your in Byron Shire :) I think we can put that down to chlorine not fluoride.

I know anything to make fun of Byron hippies.  So they put up with the chlorine but a few parts per zillion of fluoride freaks them out.

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:13pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:08pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:07pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:39pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:22pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:17pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone. If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck. Why worry about it's memory of dinosaur bladders? Ducks poo in it and you know what fish do in it. Drink beer, at least then the memory will be a little hazy. As they did in the olden days before hygiene was invented.  Thank bugger for fluoride.....unless your in Byron Shire :) I think we can put that down to chlorine not fluoride. I know anything to make fun of Byron hippies.  So they put up with the chlorine but a few parts per zillion of fluoride freaks them out.

I'm not qualified to judge them. I grew up in Perth on fluoridated water, I'm damaged goods.

Setanta wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:16pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:13pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:08pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:07pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:39pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:22pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:17pm: Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:15pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?  But they had a memory of it. 640K should be enough for anyone. If water is ever proved to have memory I'm never drinking it again. Yuck. Why worry about it's memory of dinosaur bladders? Ducks poo in it and you know what fish do in it. Drink beer, at least then the memory will be a little hazy. As they did in the olden days before hygiene was invented.  Thank bugger for fluoride.....unless your in Byron Shire :) I think we can put that down to chlorine not fluoride. I know anything to make fun of Byron hippies.  So they put up with the chlorine but a few parts per zillion of fluoride freaks them out. I'm not qualified to judge them. I grew up in Perth on fluoridated water, I'm damaged goods.

I grew up  (till 6)  without fluoridation.  My baby teeth rotted but my mind is not controlled by the illuminati.

Your baby teeth rotted because you didn't have flouride in your water? Your diet must have been appalling and you must never have brushed your teeth.

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:20pm:

I grew up  (till 6)  without fluoridation.  My baby teeth rotted but my mind is not controlled by the illuminati.

Aha!  Then who IS it controlled by?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:56pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:20pm: I grew up  (till 6)  without fluoridation.  My baby teeth rotted but my mind is not controlled by the illuminati. Aha!  Then who IS it controlled by?

I think you've caught him out Grap! ;D

Just being witty - he DID leave himself open there....

Aussie wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:58pm: AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 9:57pm: dunno. maybe it doesn't work. maybe there is something else at work. dunno. don't care. my previous condition was long-term and getting worse and some homeopathic pills led to a dramatic healing. that is all i can say. Someone prayed for you AiA. ;) Yeah, me.

Good to know I am in your prayers Aussie  ;)

Gordon wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 10:15pm:

AiA wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:11pm: yeah, whatever. this story always pisses off people like you. okay. it is your upset, not mine :) Do you know the pills you were given had no active ingredient?

You remind me of the person who mocks a top athlete who prays before competing and always wins. You have your mockery while he is enjoying his millions of dollars.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:56pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:20pm: I grew up  (till 6)  without fluoridation.  My baby teeth rotted but my mind is not controlled by the illuminati. Aha!  Then who IS it controlled by?

Not so much as a who but a what.

Irrational fear and hatred.

With a healthy dose of ignorance.

Conspiracy theorists are every bit as "controlled" as are the devoutly religious. How? The both believe their thoughts.

I once worked for a couple who owned a success business. They had secured Costa Rican passports "just in case." They had a few million dollars stashed away, again, 'just in case." The lived on a compound in a forest off the grid "just in case." They eschewed consumerism "just in case." They used gold coins whenever possible "just in case." They had lots of guns around "just in case." They are careful about internet use "just in case." Nothing wrong with any of that. Some of it is actually quite wise. But if you were ever to meet them you would quickly realize that in spite of all their talk about *freedom* these people are in the prison of their beliefs ...

AiA wrote on Aug 20^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

Conspiracy theorists are every bit as "controlled" as are the devoutly religious. How? The both believe their thoughts. I once worked for a couple who owned a success business. They had secured Costa Rican passports "just in case." They had a few million dollars stashed away, again, 'just in case." The lived on a compound in a forest off the grid "just in case." They eschewed consumerism "just in case." They used gold coins whenever possible "just in case." They had lots of guns around "just in case." They are careful about internet use "just in case." Nothing wrong with any of that. Some of it is actually quite wise. But if you were ever to meet them you would quickly realize that in spite of all their talk about *freedom* these people are in the prison of their beliefs ...

Agreed. Living in fear is a prison.

I think of the people that sanitize everything. The germophobes. Who use antibacterial agents for everything and end up lowering thoer natural immunity to everyday pathogens.

It's ok to let your kids eat dirt.

mothra wrote on Aug 20^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

AiA wrote on Aug 20th, 2016 at 12:48am: Conspiracy theorists are every bit as "controlled" as are the devoutly religious. How? The both believe their thoughts. I once worked for a couple who owned a success business. They had secured Costa Rican passports "just in case." They had a few million dollars stashed away, again, 'just in case." The lived on a compound in a forest off the grid "just in case." They eschewed consumerism "just in case." They used gold coins whenever possible "just in case." They had lots of guns around "just in case." They are careful about internet use "just in case." Nothing wrong with any of that. Some of it is actually quite wise. But if you were ever to meet them you would quickly realize that in spite of all their talk about *freedom* these people are in the prison of their beliefs ... Agreed. Living in fear is a prison. I think of the people that sanitize everything. The germophobes. Who use antibacterial agents for everything and end up lowering thoer natural immunity to everyday pathogens. It's ok to let your kids eat dirt.

Yeah, and this couple, because of their obsession, found themselves in situations "normal" people never would. They feared and avoided all government "authority" whenever possible yet seemed to attract it over and over.

They did, however, when I asked them to, paid me in gold coins. Seriously :)

AiA wrote on Aug 20^th, 2016 at 1:01am:

mothra wrote on Aug 20th, 2016 at 12:56am: AiA wrote on Aug 20th, 2016 at 12:48am: Conspiracy theorists are every bit as "controlled" as are the devoutly religious. How? The both believe their thoughts. I once worked for a couple who owned a success business. They had secured Costa Rican passports "just in case." They had a few million dollars stashed away, again, 'just in case." The lived on a compound in a forest off the grid "just in case." They eschewed consumerism "just in case." They used gold coins whenever possible "just in case." They had lots of guns around "just in case." They are careful about internet use "just in case." Nothing wrong with any of that. Some of it is actually quite wise. But if you were ever to meet them you would quickly realize that in spite of all their talk about *freedom* these people are in the prison of their beliefs ... Agreed. Living in fear is a prison. I think of the people that sanitize everything. The germophobes. Who use antibacterial agents for everything and end up lowering thoer natural immunity to everyday pathogens. It's ok to let your kids eat dirt. Yeah, and this couple, because of their obsession, found themselves in situations "normal" people never would. They feared and avoided all government "authority" whenever possible yet seemed to attract it over and over. They did, however, when I asked them to, paid me in gold coins. Seriously :)

Paid you in gold coins? How much?

Way to fly under the radar ...  :o

Yes, the money was under the table yet one can take advantage of a crazy American loophole:  hypothetical gold coin with a face value of $10.00 is given to me. however, the value of the gold in that coin is $100.00. is one taxed on the $10.00 or the $100.00? this loophole allows one to be taxed on the $10.00 but the Internal Revenue Service could make life really, really hard in the meantime so they simply paid me under the table. Crazy. Which is why I left.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 19^th, 2016 at 11:56pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 19th, 2016 at 11:20pm: I grew up  (till 6)  without fluoridation.  My baby teeth rotted but my mind is not controlled by the illuminati. Aha!  Then who IS it controlled by?

From age 5 to 6 we lived in a smallish town in Mid West USA, prime alien abduction country. Pretty sure aliens controlled my mind and rotted 1 of my baby teeth.