Well the LW Progs like to blame The West for the mess we have today.  Too much outside influence and intervention they say.  Sykes-Picot some others shout.  Some are even more specific...  they simply blame the US.  Why not?  A great many Muslims blame the US...  The Great Satan. 

Many Muslims have a tendency to blame anyone but themselves.  None of it is there fault.  None of it is due to Islam.  Islam is the Religion of Peace and of course the LW Progs swallow that like a big-mouthed Bass and regurgitate it ad nauseam.  Israel is to blame... more specifically those "ape" and "pig" Jews are to blame.  They should be wiped of the face of the Earth, they are the cause of all  the world's ills.

No one would have talked of a Jordanian identity centuries ago, but a nation now exists.  It's territorial integrity means a great deal no doubt, to the Jordanian people.  We have calls for a Palestinian state.  Why?  Jordan which previously didn't exist, takes up most of the British Mandate of Palestine.  But this issue is just one of many that is included in the mess.

The mess of the Middle East today, then, is not really about the legitimacy of the borders or of places like Syria, Iraq, or Libya. The origin of the mess within these countries is over who has the right to rule them.  The ME has always been a mess of tribes and conflicts. The Syrian conflict began as an uprising by all manner of Syrians — men and women, young and old, Sunni, Shiite, Kurdish, and even Alawite — against an unfair and corrupt autocrat, just as Libyans, Egyptians, Yemenis, etc, did back in 2010/11.  The weaknesses and contradictions of authoritarian regimes are at the centre of the ME’s ongoing problems. Even the rampant ethnic and religious sectarianism is a result of this authoritarianism, which has come to define the Middle East’s states...  Today we have the ultimate version in the ISIL Caliphate.

In Iraq, Saddam Hussein built a system through his ruling Baath Party that empowered a state governed largely by Sunnis at the expense of Shiites and Kurds.

Bashar al-Assad and his father before him, ruled by building a network of supporters where members of his Alawite sect enjoyed privileged space in the inner circle.

The Wahhabi worldview of Saudi Arabia’s leaders strongly encourages a sectarian interpretation of the country’s struggle with Iran for regional hegemony.

Salafi groups are the same, battling for supremacy in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen.

The elephant in the room... is a dysfunctional and fractured Islam the overarching reason that Muslims cannot get on with each other or others in the ME?

Mururoa, Maralinga,Monte Bello,, they should all have been done in the mid east



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFkw0hzW1c

Well you could wall them all in and give them a bomb each mike.

The only way to get a state that is "functioning" by our standards is through democratic processes, but there are far to many Muslims who are ideologically opposed to democracy. That's the crux of the problem. That is why so many Australian Muslims decided it was a good idea to travel to the most backwards place on earth to join in the rape and pillage. They look at the same thing as us, but they do not see death, oppression, rape and squalor. They see an Islamic utopia.

Aussie on the other hand has a far simpler, if somewhat racist, solution - Arabia is for Arabs. Let the progroms begin.

In the USA they have nutjobs like the serpent handling churches, they're probably equally on par with the religious nutjobs in the ME.

Now ask yourself, what would it take for the serpent handlers who take control of the USA, and why is it SO easy for nutjobs to take control in the Middle East, time and time again.

why is it SO easy for nutjobs to take control in the Middle East, time and time again.


Low IQ,s from hundreds of years of inbreeding,,, plus goat phuking does not help

No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM.

Look at the mess Uncle SAM made of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria.

The USA will never leave Afghanistan.

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. Look at the mess Uncle SAM made of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. The USA will never leave Afghanistan.

Iran? 

Any person who identifies as a moslem, any person who insists that he is a moslem, is not fit to live in our society, imo.

Moslems [even the moslems who live among us] look upon Western nations/societies, simply as a place of comfort and prosperity, which moslems deserve to possess - DESERVE, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MOSLEMS.

Their ideology, [ISLAM] simply ingrains into their psyche a 'sense' of entitlement - ENTITLEMENT, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MOSLEMS.

And ISLAM has already taught moslems [from childhood!] that all that the infidels have, rightfully belongs to them [moslems], as the proxies for Allah on this earth.

All the moslem need do, is to rouse himself, and take it!    -    JIHAD



Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1427968785/3#3

Quote:

All moslems in Australia, choose to follow and give support to a criminal philosophy. ISLAM is a violent criminal philosophy, which makes 'lawful' [for moslems] behaviours, which are violent criminal acts [by our laws!]. Moslems do not deserve to enjoy the human rights that are afforded to Australians. Moslems do not deserve, to enjoy living in a nation like Australia, as citizens [and as persons who are entitled to vote for lawmakers in our parliaments!]. -------- >

.





Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1424590530/17#17

Quote:

The heart of ISLAM is the Koran  [and heart of the Koran, is the ideas and ideals it contains]. SO WHAT DOES THE KORAN SAY ABOUT MOSLEMS LIVING IN PEACE WITH DISBELIEVERS ? ; ---------- >

No moslem, is the friend of a disbeliever, EVER......

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."   [i.e. is NOT a moslem in the eyes of Allah]
Koran 5.51


"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111




"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4




.




Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac" - Yadda QUESTION; What about the innocent moslems ? IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems. How so [logically] ? QUESTION; How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ? QUESTION; How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],      ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ? QUESTION; How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],     ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM.

And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves.

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves.

That's right. We ended up buying up all their stock, but only because we were so impressed by their product's subhuman retardation levels.

Ah yes another top notch contribution from karnal.
thanks mate :D ;D :D ;D :D

Grendel wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 2:36pm:

Ah yes another top notch contribution from karnal. thanks mate :D ;D :D ;D :D

No worries. Muslims have IQs under 81 - a scientific fact.

What's yours?

Quote:

The elephant in the room... is a dysfunctional and fractured Islam the overarching reason that Muslims cannot get on with each other or others in the ME?

Of course it is....that's the way its been since time immemorial. 

And......it has SFA to do with us now, just like it had SFA to do with us for all of that time.

Arabia is for Arabs.  Maybe the West ought try something novel........get the farq out of there, yesterday.

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves.

UK and USA didn't like business competition.

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:13pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition.

True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour.

When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead. 

Freeeeeedom, innit.

Karnal wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:21pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:13pm: freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition. True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour. When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead.  Freeeeeedom, innit.

Freedom to exploit the weak.

Poll added.

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:21pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:13pm: freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition. True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour. When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead.  Freeeeeedom, innit. Freedom to exploit the weak.

I believe that's FD's point.

Karnal wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:21pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:13pm: freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition. True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour. When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead.  Freeeeeedom, innit.

Nice story but the US haven't run out even yet... :D :D :D

Karnal wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 2:36pm: Ah yes another top notch contribution from karnal. thanks mate :D ;D :D ;D :D No worries. Muslims have IQs under 81 - a scientific fact. What's yours?

Oh no...  you go first... :D :D :D

Quote:

Tunisia is a North African country bordering the Mediterranean Sea and Sahara Desert. In the capital, Tunis, the Bardo Museum has archaeological exhibits from Roman mosaics to Islamic art. The city’s medina quarter encompasses the massive Al-Zaytuna Mosque. The population is 99 percent Sunni Muslim. Groups that together constitute the remaining 1 percent of the population include Shia Muslims, Baha'is, Jews, and Christians.

Quote:

Tunisia's security crackdown breeding new generation of IS fighters: Hedi Hammami Farid Farid

Quote:

However in the aftermath of the revolution Tunisia has also been rocked by a series of deadly terrorist attacks that have intensified since 2015. A state of emergency was declared in November 2015 and has been renewed ever since, giving authorities more leeway in detaining terrorism suspects.

Quote:

The country is also the largest source of foreign fighters globally joining Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Sharing a 500-kilometre border with Libya, where Islamic State until recently had a stronghold in Sirte, has also been a concern for the small North African country. Tunisians who spent time in overcrowded prisons have claimed responsibility for attacks overseas. Anis Amiri, who ploughed through Christmas markets in Berlin in December 2016, killing 12 people, was an escaped Tunisian national.

Quote:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel also recently met with Tunisian Prime Minister Youssef Chahed to discuss deporting Tunisians whose asylum applications had failed. Authorities in Tunisia have enforced a strict travel ban preventing over 5000 people, including Hammami, from joining militant groups.

Quote:

"You have around 18,000 youth willing to go to theatres of war in Syria and Iraq. That is a frightening number. What are the national programs to stop this phenomenon? Nothing," he told Fairfax Media.

Quote:

Many have been imprisoned upon their return but security forces have expanded their powers of arrest to hold citizens suspected of radicalisation through physical appearance, such as men growing beards and women wearing the niqab (full-face veil).

Hmmm, so this is how Muslim countries identify radicals and jihadis...

Grendel wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:21pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:13pm: freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition. True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour. When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead.  Freeeeeedom, innit. Nice story but the US haven't run out even yet... :D :D :D

I know, they found new oil.

Won't say your IQ, eh? I understand.

You're too humble, Grendel, that's your problem.

Karnal wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 7:18pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:54pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:21pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:13pm: freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition. True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour. When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead.  Freeeeeedom, innit. Nice story but the US haven't run out even yet... :D :D :D I know, they found new oil. Won't say your IQ, eh? I understand. You're too humble, Grendel, that's your problem.

Oh and lets not forget about all those reserves they already had eh...

Karnal wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 7:18pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:54pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:21pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:13pm: freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. UK and USA didn't like business competition. True, but we managed to find an alternative source of energy to human labour. When Texas ran out, we decided to raid the Middle East for oil instead.  Freeeeeedom, innit. Nice story but the US haven't run out even yet... :D :D :D I know, they found new oil. Won't say your IQ, eh? I understand. You're too humble, Grendel, that's your problem.

yes that is true.
Wassup?
Don't you have an IQ?
Don't worry they are unreliable anyway. ;D

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:24pm:

Poll added.

Unforgettable,

You forgot one option....



USA is the biggest cause of conflict and death in the Middle East

Yes
No
Or, the Joos

There is no question that the mess in the ME has been exacerbated by US policy, but it is not the only meddler in Middle Eastern affairs, and the US in not the root-cause of the problem. Even if oil could be taken out of the equation, religion,tribalism and ignorance would still be there to supply as much disharmony as anyone could desire.

issuevoter wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 12:15pm:

There is no question that the mess in the ME has been exacerbated by US policy, but it is not the only meddler in Middle Eastern affairs, and the US in not the root-cause of the problem. Even if oil could be taken out of the equation, religion,tribalism and ignorance would still be there to supply as much disharmony as anyone could desire.

What a chaotic move it was to remove Gadaffi when there was no other credible system of government in Libya.

The result, death, war and chaos possible for generations.

Without competent post-war administrations, there is chaos after regime change for it's own sake.

Yadda wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 9:06am:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 3:24pm: Poll added. Unforgettable, You forgot one option.... USA is the biggest cause of conflict and death in the Middle East Yes No Or, the Joos

Israel is a by-product of USA meddling.

Really I thought it was a by product of Hitler, attempted genocide, WW2, and the League of Nations.

Oh and the US was never  a member of the LoNs...

The west will never fix the mess in the M.E.
Any attempts by the west to fix things are used by those with their own agenda as 'proof of meddling'.

The best we can do is stay out and leave them to it. They'll either eventually sort it out themselves, or kill each other.

Unforgiven wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Israel is a by-product of USA meddling.

Grendel wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 1:07pm:

Really, I thought it was a by product of Hitler, attempted genocide, WW2, and the League of Nations.

Unlike Unforgettable, who is a self confessed rampant sinner [examine his avatar title];



THOSE WHO ARE ISRAEL, ARE FORGIVEN, AND GATHERED AGAIN


Jeremiah 16:14
....behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15  But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.


Jeremiah 23:7
....behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8  But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.


Ezekiel 34:13
And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.




"SO WILL I WATCH OVER THEM, TO BUILD, AND TO PLANT, SAITH THE LORD"

Isaiah 40:1
Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2  Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.


Jeremiah 31:28
And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.


Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Mention of ISRAEL in the NT...

Romans 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.


Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

John Smith wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 1:26pm:

The west will never fix the mess in the M.E.

God will fix the mess in the M.E.

God is able to fix the mess in the M.E.



bye, bye, 'baddies'    !           ;)

Yadda wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 3:09pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 1:26pm: The west will never fix the mess in the M.E. God will fix the mess in the M.E. God is able to fix the mess in the M.E. bye, bye, 'baddies'    !           ;)

Gawd......a Yadda post I can read!

What's holding him up, Yadda?  NBN not working....what is the problem?

Aussie wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 3:09pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 1:26pm: The west will never fix the mess in the M.E. God will fix the mess in the M.E. God is able to fix the mess in the M.E. bye, bye, 'baddies'    !           ;) Gawd......a Yadda post I can read! What's holding him up, Yadda?

Aussie,

God is patiently waiting for the time of his harvest.



Men plant vineyards, and then reap the grapes at harvest time.

And so does God.         :)



Joel 3:13
Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.


Revelation 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17  And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18  And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19  And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves.

Interesting use of the term, "relatively recently", FD.   Very interesting.   When was the last slave raid on Europe by Muslims, out of a matter of interest.  Do you know?   ::)

Here you Brian, this is the "western interference" that you and the rest of the apologists keep whining about.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/heavy-legacies-our-past.html#slavery

European society was itself undergoing a rapid transition initiated by the Roman Republic. The eradication of slavery was part of this transition, and was promoted on ideological and religious grounds. Both Judaism and Christianity have strong sympathies with the plight of slaves through the story of Exodus. The ability of the better-intentioned Europeans to achieve this goal lagged the ability of some Europeans to participate in the slave trade, but does not reflect a lack of will on the part of Europeans and many of their leaders. Even the Spanish crown, perhaps the biggest beneficiary of slavery, made genuine efforts to eradicate it among its own colonies, citing religion as a motivator and justifier. Europeans banned slave owning among themselves long before they managed to prevent Muslim slave traders from raiding Europe’s coast to capture slaves. This too came to an end towards the end of the 19th and start of the 20th century, after roughly a century of wars by European and American powers in pursuit of this goal. This was followed up by a concerted effort to eradicate slavery in the Muslim world itself – an effort that has not entirely come to fruition.

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves.

FD you once literally apologised for the violent overthrow of the parliamentary democracy in Iran and installation of the dictator Shah - on the basis that you figured the Iranians weren't offering enough of their oil wealth to Britain. Is this the type of muslim raiders you had in mind?

Yadda wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 3:09pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 1:26pm: The west will never fix the mess in the M.E. God will fix the mess in the M.E. God is able to fix the mess in the M.E. bye, bye, 'baddies'    !           ;)

he's had well over 2000 years and it's still a mess. Tell him to wake up.

John Smith wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Yadda wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 3:09pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 1:26pm: The west will never fix the mess in the M.E. God will fix the mess in the M.E. God is able to fix the mess in the M.E. bye, bye, 'baddies'    !           ;) he's had well over 2000 years and it's still a mess. Tell him to wake up.

It's a faulty NBN connection, Mr Smith.  That's the cause of the delay.

freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:04pm:

Here you Brian, this is the "western interference" that you and the rest of the apologists keep whining about. http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/heavy-legacies-our-past.html#slavery European society was itself undergoing a rapid transition initiated by the Roman Republic. The eradication of slavery was part of this transition, and was promoted on ideological and religious grounds. Both Judaism and Christianity have strong sympathies with the plight of slaves through the story of Exodus. The ability of the better-intentioned Europeans to achieve this goal lagged the ability of some Europeans to participate in the slave trade, but does not reflect a lack of will on the part of Europeans and many of their leaders. Even the Spanish crown, perhaps the biggest beneficiary of slavery, made genuine efforts to eradicate it among its own colonies, citing religion as a motivator and justifier. Europeans banned slave owning among themselves long before they managed to prevent Muslim slave traders from raiding Europe’s coast to capture slaves. This too came to an end towards the end of the 19th and start of the 20th century, after roughly a century of wars by European and American powers in pursuit of this goal. This was followed up by a concerted effort to eradicate slavery in the Muslim world itself – an effort that has not entirely come to fruition.

Tsk, tsk, FD.  No dates?  How unsurprising.  How unsurprising that you cannot quantify your term "relatively recently".   Perhaps you need to do some real research?

Oh, and perhaps you need to look up some real history?   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 9:53pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 7:04pm: Here you Brian, this is the "western interference" that you and the rest of the apologists keep whining about. http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/heavy-legacies-our-past.html#slavery European society was itself undergoing a rapid transition initiated by the Roman Republic. The eradication of slavery was part of this transition, and was promoted on ideological and religious grounds. Both Judaism and Christianity have strong sympathies with the plight of slaves through the story of Exodus. The ability of the better-intentioned Europeans to achieve this goal lagged the ability of some Europeans to participate in the slave trade, but does not reflect a lack of will on the part of Europeans and many of their leaders. Even the Spanish crown, perhaps the biggest beneficiary of slavery, made genuine efforts to eradicate it among its own colonies, citing religion as a motivator and justifier. Europeans banned slave owning among themselves long before they managed to prevent Muslim slave traders from raiding Europe’s coast to capture slaves. This too came to an end towards the end of the 19th and start of the 20th century, after roughly a century of wars by European and American powers in pursuit of this goal. This was followed up by a concerted effort to eradicate slavery in the Muslim world itself – an effort that has not entirely come to fruition. Tsk, tsk, FD.  No dates?  How unsurprising.  How unsurprising that you cannot quantify your term "relatively recently".   Perhaps you need to do some real research? Oh, and perhaps you need to look up some real history?   ::) ::)

Brian, this is the "western interference" that you and the other apologists complain about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world#20th-century_suppression_and_prohibition

At Istanbul, the sale of black and Circassian women was conducted openly until the granting of the Constitution in 1908.[66]

Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, slavery gradually became outlawed and suppressed in Muslim lands, due to a combination of pressure exerted by Western nations such as Britain and France, internal pressure from Islamic abolitionist movements, and economic pressures.[5]

By the Treaty of Jeddah, May 1927 (art.7), concluded between the British Government and Ibn Sa'ud (King of Nejd and the Hijaz) it was agreed to suppress the slave trade in Saudi Arabia. Then by a decree issued in 1936 the importation of slaves into Saudi Arabia was prohibited unless it could be proved that they were slaves at that date.[67]

In 1953, sheikhs from Qatar attending the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom included slaves in their retinues, and they did so again on another visit five years later.[68]

In 1962 that all slavery practice or trafficking in Saudi Arabia was prohibited.

By 1969 it could be observed that most Muslim states had abolished slavery although it existed in the deserts of Iraq bordering Arabia and it still flourished in Saudi Arabia, the Yemen and Oman.[69] Slavery was not formally abolished in Yemen and Oman until the following year.[70] The last nation to formally enact the abolition of slavery practice and slave trafficking was the Islamic Republic of Mauritania in 1981.[71]

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:20pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 12:38pm: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 11:44am: No nutjob ever becomes a leader in the Middle East without the blessing of Uncle SAM. And with very good reason. It was only relatively recently that we managed to stop Muslim countries raiding Europe and Africa for slaves. FD you once literally apologised for the violent overthrow of the parliamentary democracy in Iran and installation of the dictator Shah - on the basis that you figured the Iranians weren't offering enough of their oil wealth to Britain. Is this the type of muslim raiders you had in mind?

And in the same thread, remember, he unabashedly apologised for Roman slavery, calling it political inclusiveness.

Ah FD, he's done it again.

freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 10:13pm:

Brian, this is the "western interference" that you and the other apologists complain about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world#20th-century_suppression_and_prohibition At Istanbul, the sale of black and Circassian women was conducted openly until the granting of the Constitution in 1908.[66] Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, slavery gradually became outlawed and suppressed in Muslim lands, due to a combination of pressure exerted by Western nations such as Britain and France, internal pressure from Islamic abolitionist movements, and economic pressures.[5] By the Treaty of Jeddah, May 1927 (art.7), concluded between the British Government and Ibn Sa'ud (King of Nejd and the Hijaz) it was agreed to suppress the slave trade in Saudi Arabia. Then by a decree issued in 1936 the importation of slaves into Saudi Arabia was prohibited unless it could be proved that they were slaves at that date.[67] In 1953, sheikhs from Qatar attending the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom included slaves in their retinues, and they did so again on another visit five years later.[68] In 1962 that all slavery practice or trafficking in Saudi Arabia was prohibited. By 1969 it could be observed that most Muslim states had abolished slavery although it existed in the deserts of Iraq bordering Arabia and it still flourished in Saudi Arabia, the Yemen and Oman.[69] Slavery was not formally abolished in Yemen and Oman until the following year.[70] The last nation to formally enact the abolition of slavery practice and slave trafficking was the Islamic Republic of Mauritania in 1981.[71]

I take it then, that you don't have any dates, FD?  That you cannot quantity your claim about "relatively recently"?   Tsk, tsk, to make a claim with no evidence to back it up.  I wonder what motivates you?  Is it Islamophobia?   I won't accuse you of "lying", that would be too easy.  However, your ignorance is appalling.    ::)

:D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D