link

Tonight on the news we saw the Prime Minister praising our Muslim community while pretending that Islam as an ideology and a guide for social values is as good as any other imported religion.

It's time this fool educated himself.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 7^th, 2017 at 7:42pm:

link Tonight on the news we saw the Prime Minister praising our Muslim community while pretending that Islam as an ideology and a guide for social values is as good as any other imported religion. It's time this fool educated himself.

Turning on Pickering now, Herbie?  Oh, dearie, dearie, me...   ::)

You argue with facts bwian not ad hom ok?

Grendel wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:07am:

You argue with facts bwian not ad hom ok?

LOL! The "articl" o-pens with:

"Multiculturalism could have worked well in Australia if Islam had been taken seriously and banned as an irreconcilable cult that has no more of a place here in Australia than does the KKK."


What is there left to do but ridicule it?

mothra wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 10:38am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:07am: You argue with facts bwian not ad hom ok? LOL! The "articl" o-pens with: "Multiculturalism could have worked well in Australia if Islam had been taken seriously and banned as an irreconcilable cult that has no more of a place here in Australia than does the KKK." What is there left to do but ridicule it?

Is Valkie Pickering's ghostwriter?

mothra wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 10:38am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:07am: You argue with facts bwian not ad hom ok? LOL! The "articl" o-pens with: "Multiculturalism could have worked well in Australia if Islam had been taken seriously and banned as an irreconcilable cult that has no more of a place here in Australia than does the KKK." What is there left to do but ridicule it?

Argue the facts TROLL...  seems you are not up to it either.

mothra wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 10:38am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:07am: You argue with facts bwian not ad hom ok? LOL! The "articl" o-pens with: "Multiculturalism could have worked well in Australia if Islam had been taken seriously and banned as an irreconcilable cult that has no more of a place here in Australia than does the KKK." What is there left to do but ridicule it?

You're in denial, and I understand your fear.

We have homosexuals, women, secularists, and liberal-progressives on this forum board all playing 'Human Shield' to any criticism of Islam.

Amazing. Simply amazing. I've heard of people digging their own graves but it's usually after someone with a gun has handed them a spade - but not with these fruit-cakes.

It must be some kind of pre-Stockholm Syndrome we're witnessing.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 1:11pm:

We have homosexuals, women, secularists, and liberal-progressives on this forum board all playing 'Human Shield' to any criticism of Islam.

Complete nonsense.

Sir Booby has criticised Islam.

mothra has criticised Islam.

BigOl has criticised Islam.

And I've criticised Islam.

Several times.

The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction.

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 1:47pm:

The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction.

How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam?

The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel.

Quote:

So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 1:47pm:

The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction.

islam is not a religion.

it is a totalitarian cult.

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 2:45pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85

The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. islam is not a religion. it is a totalitarian cult.

The first 3/4 of the Quran says nothing about 'obeying the Prophet', then all of sudden, God changes His mind and decides to have people follow the Prophet. Really?

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 2:45pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85

Very correct.

Islam does not allow for 'interpretations', modifying with upgradings, etc as Christianity does. Therein lies its danger.

The Koran is composed of the literal Will/Word of Allah as spoken through his prophet.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. islam is not a religion. it is a totalitarian cult.

So is Christianity, so is Hinduism, so is Buddhism, so is...

All religions fit under that rather broad definition.   Islam is no different from them.   I am unsure why you keep picking on Islam and Muslims.   The overwhelming majority of Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, some even more so than many Christians/Hindus/Buddhists.   There are loons in all religions.   What we need to do is learn to tolerate the moderates and help them to control the extremists...    ::)

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 5:21pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 Very correct. Islam does not allow for 'interpretations', modifying with upgradings, etc as Christianity does. Therein lies its danger. The Koran is composed of the literal Will/Word of Allah as spoken through his prophet.

Just as does the King James version of The Bible, according to some Christian extremists, Herbie.

Why do you never consider that in your meanderings through the web?  Mmmmm?    ::)

You sure about that Brian?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Political_History_of_Islam#Forced_Conversions

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 5:21pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 Very correct. Islam does not allow for 'interpretations', modifying with upgradings, etc as Christianity does. Therein lies its danger. The Koran is composed of the literal Will/Word of Allah as spoken through his prophet.

There are numerous interpretations in Islam. There are numerous schools of thought, diverse sects, such as Sufis, Alevis, etc. Shias have a slightly different theology and practices, and tend to be more tolerant than Sunnis.

That the Quran is the the literal Word of God is a problem with the interpretation of the Quran, not the religion itself. There was a time when people believed that the Bible was the Word of God. Many Muslims read their scriptures in the same way as Christians do - within context.

Finally, I'm not downplaying the threat or seriousness of terrorists, I just don't believe that their motivations are purely Islamic. There's a huge leap between thought and deed, and the connecting factor is psychopathy, not belief or religion.

Quote:

A wake up call from Pickering.

You should have never given him your phone number.

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 4:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan.

No muslim will ever admit there are contradictions in the Quran, even Gandalf conceded Muhammad al Razi was an atheist because he said the Quran is full of contradictions.
The fine print in the Quran says it's not from Allah if there are contradictions- quran.com/4/82

Are you saying muslims should start drinking alcohol because early verse allows it?
quran.com/16/67

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 7:46pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 4:15pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan. No muslim will ever admit there are contradictions in the Quran, even Gandalf conceded Muhammad al Razi was an atheist because he said the Quran is full of contradictions. The fine print in the Quran says it's not from Allah if there are contradictions- quran.com/4/82 Are you saying muslims should start drinking alcohol because early verse allows it? quran.com/16/67

I don't care what some bunch of 'scholars' have told Muslims to believe. I am an individual with the ability to think rationally. I can interpret scriptures, texts, words however I like, and if I choose to identify myself as a Muslim (although I am not), then that's it.

And yes, I'm saying that Muslims can drink alcohol.

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 7:39pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 5:21pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 Very correct. Islam does not allow for 'interpretations', modifying with upgradings, etc as Christianity does. Therein lies its danger. The Koran is composed of the literal Will/Word of Allah as spoken through his prophet. There are numerous interpretations in Islam. There are numerous schools of thought, diverse sects, such as Sufis, Alevis, etc. Shias have a slightly different theology and practices, and tend to be more tolerant than Sunnis. That the Quran is the the literal Word of God is a problem with the interpretation of the Quran, not the religion itself. There was a time when people believed that the Bible was the Word of God. Many Muslims read their scriptures in the same way as Christians do - within context. Finally, I'm not downplaying the threat or seriousness of terrorists, I just don't believe that their motivations are purely Islamic. There's a huge leap between thought and deed, and the connecting factor is psychopathy, not belief or religion.

Every community or group of people has psychopaths. Not every one has terrorists.

Are you saying psychopathy lies somewhere between thought and deed? Where does religion lie on that spectrum?

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 7:51pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:46pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 4:15pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan. No muslim will ever admit there are contradictions in the Quran, even Gandalf conceded Muhammad al Razi was an atheist because he said the Quran is full of contradictions. The fine print in the Quran says it's not from Allah if there are contradictions- quran.com/4/82 Are you saying muslims should start drinking alcohol because early verse allows it? quran.com/16/67 I don't care what some bunch of 'scholars' have told Muslims to believe. I am an individual with the ability to think rationally. I can interpret scriptures, texts, words however I like, and if I choose to identify myself as a Muslim (although I am not), then that's it. And yes, I'm saying that Muslims can drink alcohol.

I guess every muslim who knows alcohol is haram disagrees with your nonsense on Islam

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 7:51pm:

And yes, I'm saying that Muslims can drink alcohol.

Absolutely they can, and many do.

Most don't, but many do.

Muslims can also reject Islam in it's entirety, thanks to the freedoms we have won for them. Brian will be pleased to know that this freedom does not involve getting your head chopped off.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:11pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:39pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 5:21pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 Very correct. Islam does not allow for 'interpretations', modifying with upgradings, etc as Christianity does. Therein lies its danger. The Koran is composed of the literal Will/Word of Allah as spoken through his prophet. There are numerous interpretations in Islam. There are numerous schools of thought, diverse sects, such as Sufis, Alevis, etc. Shias have a slightly different theology and practices, and tend to be more tolerant than Sunnis. That the Quran is the the literal Word of God is a problem with the interpretation of the Quran, not the religion itself. There was a time when people believed that the Bible was the Word of God. Many Muslims read their scriptures in the same way as Christians do - within context. Finally, I'm not downplaying the threat or seriousness of terrorists, I just don't believe that their motivations are purely Islamic. There's a huge leap between thought and deed, and the connecting factor is psychopathy, not belief or religion. Every community or group of people has psychopaths. Not every one has terrorists. Are you saying psychopathy lies somewhere between thought and deed? Where does religion lie on that spectrum?

I think that Terrorism is the MANNER in which they commit crimes. The extremists have been very good at bringing these people together and organizing them; that's the key - organization.

I'm no expert on psychology. What I know is that it's a hell of leap of faith to believe in God, let alone an afterlife; and even to believe that you will go to Heaven if you do something bad.

I don't think the issue is religion as it is more tribal. The scene of the mother giving her son away to ISIS is a tribal thing, not a religious thing. The erosion of the nation-state in the Middle East I think is a huge problem.

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:51pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:46pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 4:15pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan. No muslim will ever admit there are contradictions in the Quran, even Gandalf conceded Muhammad al Razi was an atheist because he said the Quran is full of contradictions. The fine print in the Quran says it's not from Allah if there are contradictions- quran.com/4/82 Are you saying muslims should start drinking alcohol because early verse allows it? quran.com/16/67 I don't care what some bunch of 'scholars' have told Muslims to believe. I am an individual with the ability to think rationally. I can interpret scriptures, texts, words however I like, and if I choose to identify myself as a Muslim (although I am not), then that's it. And yes, I'm saying that Muslims can drink alcohol. I guess every muslim who knows alcohol is haram disagrees with your nonsense on Islam

Perhaps, but I'm an individual with the capacity to USE MY BRAIN and to rationalize. Although I'm not that religious, I know that God would never command a person to kill another person.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:17pm:

Muslims can also reject Islam in it's entirety, thanks to the freedoms we have won for them. Brian will be pleased to know that this freedom does not involve getting your head chopped off.

It was like that in the early traditions of Islam. If you become an apostate, then you would suffer the penalty in the afterlife; but it never prescribed another person to kill another person. That was later.

Also, don't forget that disbelief was always in tandem with 'doing bad things.' The two were never separated in Islam. If you were a believer, it was because you believed but also did righteous deeds.

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:13pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:51pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:46pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 4:15pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan. No muslim will ever admit there are contradictions in the Quran, even Gandalf conceded Muhammad al Razi was an atheist because he said the Quran is full of contradictions. The fine print in the Quran says it's not from Allah if there are contradictions- quran.com/4/82 Are you saying muslims should start drinking alcohol because early verse allows it? quran.com/16/67 I don't care what some bunch of 'scholars' have told Muslims to believe. I am an individual with the ability to think rationally. I can interpret scriptures, texts, words however I like, and if I choose to identify myself as a Muslim (although I am not), then that's it. And yes, I'm saying that Muslims can drink alcohol. I guess every muslim who knows alcohol is haram disagrees with your nonsense on Islam Perhaps, but I'm an individual with the capacity to USE MY BRAIN and to rationalize. Although I'm not that religious, I know that God would never command a person to kill another person.

What is Allah telling muslims to do in this verse?
quran.com/9/5

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:31pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:23pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:13pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:51pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:46pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 4:15pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:45pm: Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:47pm: The issue is not with Islam, but with Islamism. The religion of Islam is diverse and consists of many teachings and interpretations. Islamism is the desire to impose Islam as a political ideology on people. There must be a distinction. How do you separate the political ideology from religion with Islam? The Quran tells muslims they cannot pick and choose what parts of the scripture they believe, this is where Islam differs from Christianity it's a package deal if you want entry into the heavenly brothel. Quote: So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the day of resurrection they will be sent to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. quran.com/2/85 The verse you quoted was from when Muhammad was in Medina. The verses of that period are contextualized, and no longer apply to today's world. Muslims should ignore any verse that contradicts with an early Meccan. No muslim will ever admit there are contradictions in the Quran, even Gandalf conceded Muhammad al Razi was an atheist because he said the Quran is full of contradictions. The fine print in the Quran says it's not from Allah if there are contradictions- quran.com/4/82 Are you saying muslims should start drinking alcohol because early verse allows it? quran.com/16/67 I don't care what some bunch of 'scholars' have told Muslims to believe. I am an individual with the ability to think rationally. I can interpret scriptures, texts, words however I like, and if I choose to identify myself as a Muslim (although I am not), then that's it. And yes, I'm saying that Muslims can drink alcohol. I guess every muslim who knows alcohol is haram disagrees with your nonsense on Islam Perhaps, but I'm an individual with the capacity to USE MY BRAIN and to rationalize. Although I'm not that religious, I know that God would never command a person to kill another person. What is Allah telling muslims to do in this verse? quran.com/9/5

That is a verse revealed in Medina, so I just completely ignore it.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 1:15pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 1:11pm: We have homosexuals, women, secularists, and liberal-progressives on this forum board all playing 'Human Shield' to any criticism of Islam. Complete nonsense. Sir Booby has criticised Islam. mothra has criticised Islam. BigOl has criticised Islam. And I've criticised Islam. Several times.

I blame Islam all the time, but that's just moi.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:17pm:

Muslims can also reject Islam in it's entirety, thanks to the freedoms we have won for them. Brian will be pleased to know that this freedom does not involve getting your head chopped off.

Good point, FD. What do Muslims in Malaysia think about such a thing?

And how do we know this?

Auggie wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:17pm: Muslims can also reject Islam in it's entirety, thanks to the freedoms we have won for them. Brian will be pleased to know that this freedom does not involve getting your head chopped off. It was like that in the early traditions of Islam. If you become an apostate, then you would suffer the penalty in the afterlife; but it never prescribed another person to kill another person. That was later. Also, don't forget that disbelief was always in tandem with 'doing bad things.' The two were never separated in Islam. If you were a believer, it was because you believed but also did righteous deeds.

Muhammed slaughtered thousands of people. It was always like that.

Karnal wrote on Mar 8^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:17pm: Muslims can also reject Islam in it's entirety, thanks to the freedoms we have won for them. Brian will be pleased to know that this freedom does not involve getting your head chopped off. Good point, FD. What do Muslims in Malaysia think about such a thing? And how do we know this?

FD?