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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> which mosques are 'Islamist'? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1493888183 Message started by freediver on May 4^th, 2017 at 6:56pm

Title: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 4^th, 2017 at 6:56pm

Looks like this was getting lost in the other thread:

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2017 at 7:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 7:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 4:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Gandalf - so do you agree with Marine Le Pen?

Le Pen called for:

the closure of all "Islamist" mosques in France,

the expulsion of hate preachers and

the reinstatement of French borders.

People on the French security services' watch list for radicalization should also be expelled from France and

have their French citizenship revoked, she said.

You'd think that Gandalf would have an opinion on this -
but no - he runs away.

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

On the face of it, these seem fairly sensible policies. But of course like all populists, she is light on the details.

How would you go about identifying which Mosques to close down Gandalf?

Bobby. wrote on May 3^rd, 2017 at 7:17pm:

FD

Quote:

How would you go about identifying which Mosques to close down Gandalf?

Hi FD,
Gandalf will never answer that.

In any case - according to the Polls - Le Pen will lose.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 4^th, 2017 at 7:54pm

Ideally [imo], we should be trying to identify the mosques which DO NOT teach ISLAM to moslems.

Shouldn't we ??

And we should shut down every other mosque.

.

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Sir Bobby on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 4^th, 2017 at 9:07pm

Bobby. wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

gandalf doesn't want to attack [in argument, on this forum] those who do not believe as gandalf believes.

That goes against gandalf's religious principles.

gandalf is a peaceful moslem.

gandalf follows a peaceful version of ISLAM.

gandalf = = a moslem Robinson Crusoe
- Yadda

Its true!

:)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Baronvonrort on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm

What is an Islamist is that some politically correct term for a FunDaMental muslim?

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:23pm

So much for Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Association.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 4^th, 2017 at 11:11pm

Bobby. wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

You mean like Freediver does? How interesting, Bobby. You have evidence to support this or will we see more obfuscation from you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 5^th, 2017 at 12:07am

Auggie wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

So much for Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Association.

augcaesarustus,

Plots to murder [murder those who do not believe as you believe],       and plots to overthrow a lawful state [and replace it with a violent and vicious religious tyranny],
are not legitimised [in Australian law] by your rights to freedom of speech and freedom of association !!!

If you believe that such rights are legitimised in Australian law, then, imo, you are a person who needs to be permanently removed from our Australian society.

.

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.

Moslems,       religious bigots,       'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

Moslems demanding their 'human right' to exercise the 'freedom of religion' of the moslem.

THE RIGHT OF THE MOSLEM [which is set out within ISLAMIC law!], to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

.

IMAGE...

"Behead those who insult ISLAM"

Islamic Protest - IN AUSTRALIA - on the streets of Sydney from Hyde Park to George Streets, September 15, 2012.

.

Watch good 'Aussie' moslems,    practicing ISLAM    behind closed doors.....

------------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia -------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 5^th, 2017 at 12:13am

Yadda wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 12:07am:

Auggie wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

So much for Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Association.

And those types of criminal plots are being hatched within Australian mosques too.

IMAGE...

Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar outside Parramatta police headquarters

Quote:

Farhad Mohammed gave 'Islamic State salute' before killing Curtis Cheng, court told

By police reporter Jessica Kidd

Updated May 01, 201

The court also heard the teenager was found with a bloodied handwritten note in which he declared he would put "terror in the hearts" of non-believers.

"Your nights will turn into nightmares. Your days into hell," he wrote.

"Know that you are all being watched 24/7 while you are asleep, awake, planning.

"By the will of Allah I have come here today to put terror in your hearts.

"And soon the mujahideen will do the same, by the will of Allah."

Raban Alou, 19,
Talal Alameddine, 24,
Mustafa Dirani, 23,
and Milad Atai, 21,
are all accused of helping Mohammed carry out the fatal attack.

The court also heard the accused men allegedly took surveillance photographs of Australian Defence Force personnel getting off a bus and shared them on the encrypted messaging service What's App.

The court heard Alou allegedly replied: "May Allah curse them all and destroy them into pieces."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-01/teen-who-shot-curtis-cheng-gave-islamic-state-salute-court-told/8487276

go to, and view the ABC article above, for ref's to the Parramatta mosque.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 5^th, 2017 at 1:02am

Let's ask Y.

Y, do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Moslem?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 5^th, 2017 at 9:56am

Karnal wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 1:02am:

Let's ask Y.

Y, do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Moslem?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Excoriate me K.

Do your worst.

But in answer to your inquiry,
whenever i 'use....porkies',
i usually terminate my comments with the phrase; /sarc off

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by issuevoter on May 5^th, 2017 at 10:12am

Which ones? The ones in which the congregation believes Mohamed was the messenger of God, and that the Koran in infallible. Especially the nasty bits that require the faithful to kill the unfaithful.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 5^th, 2017 at 12:53pm

Yadda wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

Karnal wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 1:02am:

Let's ask Y.

Y, do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Moslem?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Excoriate me K.

Do your worst.

But in answer to your inquiry,
whenever i 'use....porkies',
i usually terminate my comments with the phrase; /sarc off

Sorry, Y, was that a no?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by jeez on May 5^th, 2017 at 2:18pm

"We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances under which they come" When that twerp said "we" he meant the politicians, the majority of Australians want immigration stopped altogether because we are being overrun by a cult.
We are always going to governed by either liberal or labor and they are all in bed with each other and to sh1t scared to offend the offending religion and the stinking baggage they carry, self serving pricks, if anyone gets in there way like Pauline they simply put her in jail.
This country is on its way to rack and ruin.
Multiculturalism, when did we get to vote on that.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 5^th, 2017 at 3:06pm

We never got a vote on it.
bwian thinks we did but we know bwian is a delusional liar.
Hawke stated he wouldn't not give us a vote on it because he knew it would get voted down.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:52am

Brian Ross wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 11:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

You mean like Freediver does? How interesting, Bobby. You have evidence to support this or will we see more obfuscation from you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian what did you mean when you said we have no right or even ability to criticise other nations or religions?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 7^th, 2017 at 9:46am

LOL bwian is a xenophile he has a love of others... he doesn't love us though. He suffers from a deep and unrelenting cultural cringe and hatred of those who do not share his ideas... :D :D :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 7^th, 2017 at 1:36pm

He likes to project it too. He recently claimed the British Empire broke apart because we were embarrassed about being an empire.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 7^th, 2017 at 2:55pm

Yes he has displayed his Anglophobic beliefs many times in the past.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 7^th, 2017 at 4:58pm

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 1:36pm:

He likes to project it too. He recently claimed the British Empire broke apart because we were embarrassed about being an empire.

Did I, FD? Would you care to quote back to us, in context, exactly what I said, versus what you have just claimed I said? Tsk, tsk, erecting strawman arguments again? How unbecoming of you, FD. ::) ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The only way you could possibly know this is if you have visited every single Mosque in Australia on a Friday. Have you done that Baron?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Baronvonrort on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The muslim author Tarek Fatah said it, are you saying Tarek Fatah is full of crap?

Tarek Fatah is a well known author been a muslim all his life. :)

Quote:

Around the world,every Friday at every mosque,Islamic clerics read an invocation before the formal congregation, praying to Allah to grant victory to Muslims over 'Qawm el-Kafiroon' i.e., Vhristians,Jews,Hindus,atheists and all non muslims.
facebook.com/tarekfatah/posts/10156866174070012

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The only way you could possibly know this is if you have visited every single Mosque in Australia on a Friday. Have you done that Baron?

Have you ever seen this happen at a Mosque Gandalf?

How do you tell which Mosques should be shut down? Would you be in favour of shutting down mosques that do as Baron suggested?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 12^th, 2017 at 6:33pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 7:30pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 6:58pm:

Gandalf I would appreciate your views on what this Imam says in this video.

He says books like Sahih Al Bukhari should be banned, I see why the sunni Australians have a problem with him, he also says Palestine in Jewish land.

memri.org/tv/australian-shiite-imam-mohammad-tawhidi-we-did-not-come-australia-have-burqas-running-around-don

All I can say is Holy Shi-ite I see why he has gone into hiding after listening to that.

Gandalf- do you agree with this Imam that Palestine is jewish land?

No. Apparently he thinks its ok to drive people off the land they have owned and lived on for many generations - because of what happened 2000 years ago. I'd say the Aborigines in Australia have a pretty good case against us Europeans using that logic wouldn't you say Baron?

Still, I'm glad he criticised the sunnah (Bukhari). Although I disagree that all of Bukhari should be banned - there are some beautiful sayings promoting peace, tolerance and understanding. But it is high time muslims started weeding out the passages that so clearly contradict the message of the Quran.

Should they also weed out chapter 9 Gandalf?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 8^th, 2017 at 12:55am

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:52am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 11:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

You mean like Freediver does? How interesting, Bobby. You have evidence to support this or will we see more obfuscation from you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian what did you mean when you said we have no right or even ability to criticise other nations or religions?

Ah, misquoting again, hey, FD? Nothing new under the sun as far as you're concerned, is there?

Why not quote what I actually said, instead of what you believe I said? Might make a change. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 8^th, 2017 at 11:23am

Karnal wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 12:53pm:

Yadda wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

Karnal wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 1:02am:

Let's ask Y.

Y, do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Moslem?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Excoriate me K.

Do your worst.

But in answer to your inquiry,
whenever i 'use....porkies',
i usually terminate my comments with the phrase; /sarc off

Sorry, Y, was that a no?

There you go, FD, you're joined by Y, who also wants to include porkies in his campaign against the Muselman.

Great minds think alike, no?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 8^th, 2017 at 1:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 12:55am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:52am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 11:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

You mean like Freediver does? How interesting, Bobby. You have evidence to support this or will we see more obfuscation from you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian what did you mean when you said we have no right or even ability to criticise other nations or religions?

Oh dearie dearie me bwian, tsk tsk tsk....
YOU misquote reinterpret and mindread all the time bwian... are you being a total hypocrite again?
If you don't want to be thought a liar as well bwian you better start posting actual quotes to back yourself up too eh. You cant be trusted to actually post the truth. :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 2:51pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:23pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

Quote:

Around the world,every Friday at every mosque,Islamic clerics read an invocation before the formal congregation, praying to Allah to grant victory to Muslims over 'Qawm el-Kafiroon' i.e., Vhristians,Jews,Hindus,atheists and all non muslims.
facebook.com/tarekfatah/posts/10156866174070012

Baron,

Does that mean that moslems are actually, striving against us disbelievers [in the name of Allah] ?

Q.
And what do you imagine that the moslems are going to do to us, if we try to resist their striving against us ?

Or, God forbid, what do you imagine that the moslems are going to do to us, if;
'Allah to grants victory to Muslims over 'Qawm el-Kafiroon' ?

What do the victorious moslems usually do, with their defeated [mortal] enemies ?

Syria ?

Iraq ?

Yemen ?

Saudi ?

Turkey ? [Armenians]

I've heard that the moslems always let the women and the little children live.

"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful."
Koran 1.1

Who said ~~that Allah~~ that SATAN was a cruel and deceitful god ?

Google;
what are the 99 names of allah, deceiver

.

With the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob......

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

Deuteronomy 7:12
Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

1 Kings 8:23
And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:

Job 12:16
With him.....the deceived and the deceiver are his.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 3:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 12:55am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:52am:

Brian what did you mean when you said we have no right or even ability to criticise other nations or religions?

Ah, misquoting again, hey, FD? Nothing new under the sun as far as you're concerned, is there?

Brian_Ross said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379197632/34#34

Quote:

I make no excuses for those [ISLAMIC jurisdiction] nations and their laws, BV.

I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments.

It is terrible but I also recognise

I have no right or ability to criticise them.

I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by greggerypeccary on May 8^th, 2017 at 3:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 8^th, 2017 at 4:56pm

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 3:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 12:55am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:52am:

Brian what did you mean when you said we have no right or even ability to criticise other ations or religions?

Ah, misquoting again, hey, FD? Nothing new under the sun as far as you're concerned, is there?

Brian_Ross said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379197632/34#34

Quote:

I wonder why FD has not done this, Yadda? Thank you for finding my quote for me. Do you see the difference between what I said and what FD has said, I said? Considerable difference in the personal pronoun there, now isn't there, Yadda? I wonder why FD chose to misquote me? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 6:39pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 4:56pm:

Brian_Ross,

Q.
If you know that ISLAMIC law mandates the hatred of disbelievers,
and if you know that ISLAMIC law mandates fighting against disbelievers, because, disbelievers do not believe as moslems believe, then please explain;
WHAT CAUSES YOU TO BE POLITICALLY IMPOTENT, HERE IN AUSTRALIA?
WHAT CAUSES YOU TO BE UNABLE TO CRITICISE MOSLEMS, HERE IN AUSTRALIA, WHEN MOSLEMS [HERE IN AUSTRALIA] [BEHIND CLOSED DOORS] CAN BE SEEN TO BE BLATANTLY PROMOTING VIOLENCE AND HATRED AGAINST THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE AS THEY [MOSLEMS] BELIEVE ? watch the YT below

Clerics teach that, for every moslem, the Koran is a guide for the virtuous and proper behaviour of the believer.

And the Koran encourages veiled hatred and hostility, towards those who do not believe as moslems believe.

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

.

Brian_Ross said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379197632/34#34

Quote:

.

Brian_Ross says.....

Quote:

"I am tolerant of most things, except intolerance....."

......BUT, [on this forum] Brian_Ross IS WHOLLY TOLERANT OF ISLAM AND OF ISLAM's FOLLOWERS.

Watch good 'Aussie' moslems, practicing ISLAM behind closed doors.....

------------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia -------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 8^th, 2017 at 6:48pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Such a shame that you've lapsed into Islamophobia again, Yadda. Tsk, tsk. My opinion is my opinion, nothing more. Something that FD appears, like you, unable to understand. Shame really. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:07pm

Johnnie wrote on May 5^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Based on your comment, I"m going to assume that you're a White Australian with British heritage. You're forgetting that the British Empire was diverse and that people who lived in the Empire were free to travel and sojourn in Britain.

Britain has never been white.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:08pm

Yes, and the Torah also calls to kill apostates. Welcome to tribal religion.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Such a shame that you've lapsed into Islamophobia again, Yadda. Tsk, tsk.

My opinion is my opinion,

nothing more. Something that FD appears, like you, unable to understand. Shame really. ::)

Its a pity though, that anyone who expresses an differing opinion [about ISLAM] to the one that you express, is always denigrated as being an ISLAMOPHOBE.

Brian_Ross,

What a deceitful and intolerant person, you really are! Quack, quack.

By the evidence of your statements on this forum,
you are tolerant of those who willingly follow a philosophy which promotes hatred and vicious murder,
but when someone like myself criticises what this evil philosophy and its followers are doing,
we are the ones who are accused of being intolerant.

ISLAMIC law allows [i.e. makes it lawful for] moslem men to marry 9 a year old girl,
even in Australia.

And moslems want Sharia law to be imposed in those nations where moslems live.

Proof ?
peruse the content of this page.....
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

.

Quote:

Australia a Muslim nation
October 08, 2006

AUSTRALIA is a Muslim nation, the head of Prime Minister John Howard's Muslim advisory board says.

Dr Ameer Ali says most Australians practise Muslim values but the Muslim community is being alienated and disadvantaged by Islamophobia.
Dr Ali said multiculturalism was Australia's destiny but Muslims, as latecomers, were being disadvantaged.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20545617-1702,00.html

the link is old, but the article is kosher

Q.
Why do we allow these people to live among us ?

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:19pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Yes, and the Torah also calls to kill apostates. Welcome to tribal religion.

More correctly......

The Torah calls for the death of covenant breakers, and oath breakers, LIVING WITHIN THE NATION OF ISRAEL [or, among the 'congregation' that is 'Israel'].

n.b.
If an Israelite physically left the nation of Israel, and went 'into the world', no one there could know that he was once an Israelite or a covenant breaker.

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 34:6
And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

Deuteronomy 7:12
Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

1 Kings 8:23
And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:

Nehemiah 1:5
And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

Psalms 25:10
All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

Daniel 9:4
And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:19pm

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Q.
Why do we allow these people to live among us ?

Q. Why do we allow YOU to live among us?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:20pm

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:19pm:

What about those polytheists?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:28pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:19pm:

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Q.
Why do we allow these people to live among us ?

Q. Why do we allow YOU to live among us?

Why are people like myself, allowed to live among us ?

Hmmmm.

I don't know!!!

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1421662838/392#392

Quote:

60+ years on this planet.

Never been to goal.

I have never been charged with, nor convicted of, any criminal offence.

Never a drink driving conviction.

Never an illicit drug possession/use conviction.

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

-------- >

IMAGE...

Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar outside Parramatta police headquarters

QUESTION;
What 'set off' Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar on that fateful day, to decide to murder Australian Curtis Cheng in Parramatta, NSW ???

ANSWER;
ONLY ALLAH KNOWS!

n.b.
ISLAMIC culture encouraged Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, to murder Australian Curtis Cheng.

Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar was inspired by ISLAM's imperative, which urged him TO KILL THE ENEMIES OF ALLAH.

< ------------

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Q.
Why do we allow these people to live among us ?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:33pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:20pm:

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:19pm:

What about those polytheists?

Torah

God's laws in the Old Testament principally mandate that those who follow him, make a distinction [discriminate] between the good and the wicked.

And 'discriminate' between good persons and wicked persons.

And reject and censure what is wicked and evil.

But the ancient Hebrews - HAD NO SANCTION FROM THEIR GOD TO MURDER THOSE WHO WERE NOT HEBREWS - because they were not Hebrews.

AGAIN, the law of the ancient Hebrews [given by their God],
.....prohibited the ancient Hebrews from murdering anyone because they were not Hebrews.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:28pm:

Why are people like myself, allowed to live among us ?

Hmmmm.

I don't know!!!

Because of your intolerance. You condemn other persons as being intolerant but you're also being intolerant. So, should we kick you out?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 9:34pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:28pm:

Why are people like myself, allowed to live among us ?

Hmmmm.

I don't know!!!

Because of your intolerance. You condemn other persons as being intolerant but you're also being intolerant.

So, should we kick you out?

I want to separate myself, from latent wanna-be criminals and latent wanna-be homicidal maniacs.

Yeah, i'm a very, very 'intolerant' person.

/sarc off

Watch good 'Aussie' moslems, practicing ISLAM behind closed doors.....

------------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia -------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

.

YOUTUBE #2,

What Normal Muslims Think - And Europe Fails to Understand -------- > goto 41 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIK8bfeLXSw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIK8bfeLXSw

.

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Fight against, Allah's enemies.....
"Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76

Fight against, Allah's enemies.....
"Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day ask thee for no exemption from fighting...And Allah knoweth well those who do their duty."
Koran 9.44

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111

.

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Jeremiah 15:19
Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

.....if we return, to God.

Repent.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 9:42pm

So, most Muslims are criminals and homicidal maniacs?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 8^th, 2017 at 9:53pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 9:42pm:

So, most Muslims are criminals and homicidal maniacs?

I'll save you the effort of reading Y's next post.

Moslem == a follower of Islam.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:16pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist.

Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

augcaesarustus,

Don't pay any attention to Karnal.

I can speak for myself.

My arguments against such criticism and against your 'reasoning', are made, plainly, here....

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1493888149/0#0

and here....

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1493888183/30#30

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 8^th, 2017 at 11:51pm

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Such a shame that you've lapsed into Islamophobia again, Yadda. Tsk, tsk.

My opinion is my opinion,

nothing more. Something that FD appears, like you, unable to understand. Shame really. ::)

Its a pity though, that anyone who expresses an differing opinion [about ISLAM] to the one that you express, is always denigrated as being an ISLAMOPHOBE.

What is your motivation for your bigotry towards Muslims, Yadda?

If we look closely we can see the fear in your posts. You fear their religion. You express that fear through bigotry, bigotry directed towards innocent, moderate, well assimilated Muslims who have done you, personally, no harm. You fear their lifestyle choices, their dress, their beliefs. Tsk, tsk, Yadda, if you feel that describing the basis of that fear correct - "Islamophobia" - denigrates you, then all I can suggest is that perhaps you need to change your arguments. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 9^th, 2017 at 6:53am

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Such a shame that you've lapsed into Islamophobia again, Yadda. Tsk, tsk.

My opinion is my opinion,

nothing more. Something that FD appears, like you, unable to understand. Shame really. ::)

Its a pity though, that anyone who expresses an differing opinion [about ISLAM] to the one that you express, is always denigrated as being an ISLAMOPHOBE.

What is your motivation for your bigotry towards Muslims, Yadda?

If we look closely we can see the fear in your posts. You fear their religion. You express that fear through bigotry, bigotry directed towards innocent, moderate, well assimilated Muslims who have done you, personally, no harm. You fear their lifestyle choices, their dress, their beliefs.

Dictionary;
phobia = = an extreme or irrational fear of something.

"ISLAM, is peace."

"Yadda is an ISLAMOPHOBE."
- apologists for ISLAM, on OzPol

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

.

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

.

IMAGE...

"Behead those who insult ISLAM"

Islamic Protest - IN AUSTRALIA - on the streets of Sydney from Hyde Park to George Streets, September 15, 2012.

n.b. .....NOT WORSHIPING ALLAH, IS 'INSULTING' ISLAM. .....SO OFF WITH YOUR HEAD !

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1482184211/5#5

Quote:

Moslems are dangerous people.

Moslems are a danger to everyone who is not a moslem.

.....that is simply the nature of the beast.

.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:09pm:

Ah yes, "All Muslims are terrorists, ~~and all terrorists are Muslims~~".

TRUE!

.

IMAGE.....

Melbourne atrocity, committed by a 'Greek' person claiming that
"Muslim faith is the correct faith according to the whole world.....And I am not guilty."

.

Quote:

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC religious scholar, Sayyid Qutb

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 9^th, 2017 at 7:23am

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

Yadda wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Such a shame that you've lapsed into Islamophobia again, Yadda. Tsk, tsk.

My opinion is my opinion,

nothing more. Something that FD appears, like you, unable to understand. Shame really. ::)

Its a pity though, that anyone who expresses an differing opinion [about ISLAM] to the one that you express, is always denigrated as being an ISLAMOPHOBE.

Dictionary;
phobia = = an extreme or irrational fear of something.

"ISLAM, is peace."

"Yadda is an ISLAMOPHOBE."
- apologists for ISLAM, on OzPol

.

IMAGE....

'But that is their culture.
.....I have no right to judge them.'

Q.
In a 'cosmopolitan world', should every culture we 'encounter' really be inviolate, and free from all moral scrutiny ?

.

IMAGE....

Political Correctness is being used as a weapon,
which is always unleashed against, and aimed at, LIGHT AND TRUTH.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 9^th, 2017 at 5:34pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I am so wounded, Yadda. I really am. Tsk, tsk, that I should ask you to treat people different to you with tolerance and without hatred or bigotry. How shameful of me, hey? Why don't I just hang my head in shame for asking you to be decent and fair towards Muslims who have committed no crimes, who are lawful, who are assimilated and who only major difference to you is that they worship a different religion. I am just so ashamed, I really am.

Yadda, your criticism would be true if I had not attempted to point out the flaws in your arguments. If I had not pointed out the bigotry, the Islamophobia that you project towards Muslims. To you, these are just labels but they describe what you post. You would only be happy I fear if you wore a black uniform and pushed Muslims onto a train of cattle cars bound for a camp with the words, "Arbeit macht Frei" over the gates. ::) ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 9^th, 2017 at 6:06pm

Yadda, you can quote scripture until you're blue in the face. What matters is what people do, not what they believe.

Your beliefs and values are actually just as extreme as a so-called Islamist. You are intolerant of those people.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 9^th, 2017 at 6:38pm

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 6:06pm:

"ISLAM, is peace."

"Yadda is an       intolerant          ISLAMOPHOBE."
- apologists for ISLAM, on OzPol

Uh-huh.

I have a dream......

If only,       ...we could remove everyone who thinks like Yadda.

If only,       ...we could snap our fingers, and everyone like Yadda could disappear.

Suddenly, there would be no more hostility towards moslems, and ISLAM.

......anywhere in the world.

There would be real hope,       for World Peace,       at last.

/sarc off

.

Look at the results of these public opinion polls, taken among many moslem groups/communities.....

In those anonymous polls, large portions of moslem populations [who are living within the Western nations],
are       willing    to reveal what hatred they feel, towards their non-moslem neighbours,
and we get a sense of          the true intentions,       of those moslems, towards their non-moslem neighbours.

And their [moslems] insistence and intention, that       ISLAMIC law       eventually be imposed upon those secular nations can be seen.

------- >

peruse the content of this page.....
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

Q.
Why do we allow these people to live among us ?

------- >

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

-------- >

IMAGE...

Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar outside Parramatta police headquarters

QUESTION;
What 'set off' Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar on that fateful day, to decide to murder Australian Curtis Cheng in Parramatta, NSW ???

ANSWER;
ONLY ALLAH KNOWS!

n.b.
ISLAMIC culture encouraged Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, to murder Australian Curtis Cheng.

Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar was inspired by ISLAM's imperative, which urged him TO KILL THE ENEMIES OF ALLAH.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by issuevoter on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Aussie on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:53pm

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

'Behead' them.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:59pm

Aussie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:53pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

'Behead' them.

Ban them.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 9^th, 2017 at 10:07pm

issuevoter wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

Who is this Ali who is great?

Who are these "Muzlims"?

I think you mean "Allahu Akbar" and "Muslims"... ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 10^th, 2017 at 12:44am

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

augcaesarustus,

Ok, how about this?

If you are willing to agree that ISLAM is a murderous and intolerant death cult,
i'll agree, that i'm intolerant...... of a murderous and intolerant death cult.

In a sane world, 'discrimination' would NOT be a 'dirty' word.

It never used to be!

Dictionary;
discrimination = =
1 the action of discriminating against people.
2 recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. good judgement or taste.

Dictionary;
discriminating = = having or showing good taste or judgement.

"There are only two races in the world, the decent and the indecent."
Victor Frankl - Nazi Holocaust survivor

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 10^th, 2017 at 12:56am

And apologists, Y. You're intolerant of us too.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am

Strange that Bwian can hold an opinion yet not be a bigot but others who do are bigots according to him. Strange that those who disagree with him re Islam are all Islamaphobes too.
Oh dear bwian... tsk, tsk, tsk.... are you a bigot too? ;D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 10^th, 2017 at 11:24am

which mosques are 'Islamist'?

Every mosque in Australia       is an advocate for the 'religion' of ISLAM, and an advocate for what    mainstream       ISLAMIC religious doctrines teach.

Mainstream ISLAMIC religious doctrines teach that Allah hates    everyone    who [rejects ISLAM and] is not a moslem.

And, mainstream ISLAMIC religious doctrines teach that all good moslems too, must hate    everyone    who [rejects ISLAM and] is not a moslem.

.

A few ongoing examples, of what we [non-moslems] are inadvertently[???] encouraging,    when 'we' ['liberals' and the political leftists] choose to be tolerant of ISLAM, and, choose to be tolerant of the followers of ISLAM [i.e. moslems].

This is what we should expect,    when we give free reign, to the intent,    of moslems who live among us.

--------- >

Quote:

By Robert Spencer on May 08, 2017 03:21 pm

Survey shows large percentages of Muslim men approve of honor killing, wife-beating, marital rape

Honor killing, wife-beating, marital rape, polygamy — all justified in Islamic texts and teachings, and all approved of by large numbers of the Muslims surveyed here.

What is surprising is that these percentages are so low, given the approval in Islamic texts for all these practices.

Apparently many Egyptian and Moroccan men know to tell pollsters what they want to hear......

Google

.

Quote:

By Robert Spencer on May 08, 2017 12:12 pm

NY State Education Department promoted lesson plan teaching students to sympathize with Islamic jihad suicide bombers !!!!!!!

No one particularly cared about this.

>>>>>>>>>
But imagine what the outcry would have been if the New York State Education Department had promoted a lesson plan teaching students to oppose jihad terror and discussing its ideological roots in Islamic texts and teachings.
<<<<<<<<<

“N.Y. promoted, covered up lesson plan teaching students to sympathize with Islamic suicide.....

Google

.

Quote:

By Christine Williams on May 08, 2017 08:14 am

Canadian senate passes bill that removes right to revoke citizenship from terrorists

For many Canadians the most troubling change is the non revoking of Canadian citizenship even if the individual is convicted of terrorism.

The interests of [moslems] have been prioritized over the well-being of Canadians, all in the name of political correctness and multiculturalism at any cost.

In 2015, the jihadist who masterminded the plot to.....

Google

.

Former Obama DHS official, the spectical of [Egyptian] moslems murdering [Egyptian] Christians, is 'par for the course' people.

i.e.
'Nothing to see here. Move on! Move on!' !!!!!!

-------- >

Quote:

By Robert Spencer on May 08, 2017 07:54 am

Former Obama DHS official on Islamic State slaughtering Egyptian Christians: “how what goes around comes around”

Mohamed Elibiary, who believes that the U.S. is an Islamic country and that the return of the caliphate is “inevitable,” was part of Obama’s Homeland Security Advisory Council.

There have been questions about Mohamed Elibiary’s true allegiances for years.

For quite some time, his Twitter profile incorporated the pro-Muslim Brotherhood hand signal, “R4BIA.”

And years ago, he was one of the speakers at a December 2004 conference in Dallas titled “A Tribute to the Great Islamic Visionary.”

The visionary in question was none other than the founding father of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Ayatollah Khomeini.

.....Elibiary still got his appointment to the DHS Advisory Council, and was later promoted.

Mohamed Elibiary rose as far as he has without ever being properly vetted because government and law enforcement officials, as well as the media, are so avid to find a moderate Muslim who will stand against Islamic jihad terrorism that they will accept virtually anyone’s claim to be just that, no questions asked.

"A former Obama administration official [Mohamed Elibiary] at the Department of Homeland Security said Sunday that when it comes to the Islamic State slaughtering Egyptian Christians, “what goes around, comes around.”

In a tweet posted Sunday, Mohamed Elibiary, who formerly served as senior member of the DHS’ Homeland Security Advisory Council, stated, “Reading ISIS’s latest mag ‘otherizing’ Egypt’s Copts. Subhanallah how what goes around comes around. Coptic ldrs did same to MB Egyptians.”"

Google

i.e.
Mohamed Elibiary is claiming, that the downfall of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, was aided by Egyptian Copts.

So, when moslems in Egypt, in revenge, murder Egyptian Copts [in terror attacks], that is 'sweet' for him. !!!!!

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:58pm

issuevoter wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

People have to stop murdering people full stop.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by AugCaesarustus on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Yadda on May 10^th, 2017 at 5:56pm

Auggie wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

The post above;

Proving why both, ignorance in some men, and, malice in other men, can be so, so dangerous!!!!

"I don't know! And i don't care!"
- who said that ? .....was it some Aussie ? :)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 11^th, 2017 at 10:02pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 12:55am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:52am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 11:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote:

Gandalf has a life outside this forum.

Gandalf refuses to explain his beliefs.

Anytime there's a hard question he runs away.

You mean like Freediver does? How interesting, Bobby. You have evidence to support this or will we see more obfuscation from you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian what did you mean when you said we have no right or even ability to criticise other nations or religions?

Apparently Brian is trying to backpedal by claiming he has a different set of rights to everyone else. But he can't explain how that works.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379233325/1747#1747

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by issuevoter on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:35am

Brian Ross wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 10:07pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

Who is this Ali who is great?

Who are these "Muzlims"?

I think you mean "Allahu Akbar" and "Muslims"... ::)

I am not going to dignify their superstitions or their name. I'll leave the appeasement of Islam to people like you. Check this out your Doctorship.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39885745

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:26pm

issuevoter wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 10:07pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

Who is this Ali who is great?

Who are these "Muzlims"?

I think you mean "Allahu Akbar" and "Muslims"... ::)

I am not going to dignify their superstitions or their name. I'll leave the appeasement of Islam to people like you. Check this out your Doctorship.

I do not appease. I believe in treating people fairly, not on the basis of prejudice or a phobia about their beliefs. Their religion has a proper name. You should use it. Or do you call Jews, "Kikes"?

Quote:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39885745

Well, as we know that MEMRI is rather biased in what it reports and how it translates things, I take it with a pinch of salt. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 12^th, 2017 at 7:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:26pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 10:07pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

Who is this Ali who is great?

Who are these "Muzlims"?

I think you mean "Allahu Akbar" and "Muslims"... ::)

I am not going to dignify their superstitions or their name. I'll leave the appeasement of Islam to people like you. Check this out your Doctorship.

I do not appease.

All you do is appease. You do nothing else.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm

Auggie wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

So no-one who has read the Koran would support the death penalty for apostasy?

Grendel wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am:

If you made your disagreement part of your religion Brian would have no right or even ability to criticise you. While you are at it, might as well throw in a bit of rape and pillage just to prove you mean it.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 12^th, 2017 at 10:02pm

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Auggie wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

So no-one who has read the Koran would support the death penalty for apostasy?

Grendel wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am:

Good question, FD. Would anyone who has read the Koran support the death penalty for apostasy?

Luckily, we have the answer to this question. Remember? It's in your Pew Survey.

Now if you could just quote this statistic - by nation - we'll have an exact answer.

Thanks, FD.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 13^th, 2017 at 9:58am

Quote:

Liar liar pants on fire bwian.
You apologise bwian.
You don't treat people fairly, you libel, slander and name call... "racist, Xenophobe, Islamaphobe, Hansonite...." etc...
Surely you are not a bigoted, lying hypocrite bwian. ;D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 13^th, 2017 at 11:50am

Karnal wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 10:02pm:

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Auggie wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

So no-one who has read the Koran would support the death penalty for apostasy?

Grendel wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 13^th, 2017 at 12:05pm

Grendel wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am:

Here's Bwian (esp from 1.33)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBOiOqDon1I

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 15^th, 2017 at 6:25pm

Frank wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 11:50am:

Karnal wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 10:02pm:

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Auggie wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

So no-one who has read the Koran would support the death penalty for apostasy?

Grendel wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

Thanks, Frank.

Here you go, FD. Looks like the majority of those who have read the Koran don't support the death penalty for apostasy after all.

Now what have we learned here, leftards?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm

Frank wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 7:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:26pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 6:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 10:07pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:23pm:

Auggie wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Ok, how about this? I'll meet you halfway.

I'll agree that Islam is an intolerant religion, if you agree that you are being intolerant.

Tolerance, intolerance, no one has to meet anyone halfway. The Muzlims have to stop murdering people because they are not Muzlims. Its that simple. Ali Akbah!

Who is this Ali who is great?

Who are these "Muzlims"?

I think you mean "Allahu Akbar" and "Muslims"... ::)

I am not going to dignify their superstitions or their name. I'll leave the appeasement of Islam to people like you. Check this out your Doctorship.

I do not appease.

All you do is appease. You do nothing else.

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:37pm

Karnal wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 6:25pm:

Frank wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 11:50am:

Karnal wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 10:02pm:

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Auggie wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Auggie wrote on May 8^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Yadda is an extremist. Even the Literalist of the most Literalist doesn't interpret the Quran the way he does.

What about the ones holding up signs saying behead those who insult the prophet?

I bet you anything that those people haven't even read the quran. I doubt they'd have the intellectual capacity to read any book properly. Most likely the person was just told to do it and that's it.

So no-one who has read the Koran would support the death penalty for apostasy?

Grendel wrote on May 10^th, 2017 at 9:51am:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

Thanks, Frank.

Here you go, FD. Looks like the majority of those who have read the Koran don't support the death penalty for apostasy after all.

Now what have we learned here, leftards?

Well, the majority seems to support it in very populous Muslim countries. Although not indonesia, they are still keen to jail guys who say it's OK for Muslims to take non-Muslims as friends despite what the Koran says.
So Muslims - and I think they are all Islamists if they believe in Islam - do not have to kill everyone to intimidate everyone.

And there are lots and lots of extra-judicial hackings-to-death of apostates in various Islamist countries.

This just in:
Mr. Mohamed Al-Dosogy, an activist who tried to dump Islam for atheism, is in trouble in Sudan where authorities ordered his arrest for apostasy which attracts death penalty.

Article 126 of Sudan’s 1991 Penal Code imposes the death penalty on offenders found guilty of apostasy.

The section defined apostasy as a crime that is committed by any Muslim who advocates for the renunciation of the creed of Islam or publicly renounces his or her faith.http://www.nan.ng/headlines/activist-faces-death-for-dumping-islam/

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 17^th, 2017 at 1:19am

FD?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:44pm

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

All Muslims, Soren. All Muslims, be they good, bad or indifferent. You indiscriminately pick on them all. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 17^th, 2017 at 8:50pm

Looks like FD won't say, Frank. Why do you think he took the Pew Survey off the Wiki?

Same reason you edited your post above, do you think?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:05pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

All Muslims, Soren. All Muslims, be they good, bad or indifferent. You indiscriminately pick on them all. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ::)

How do I pick on them? By being critical of what they believe?

Am I "unfair", on the same account, to communists, nazis, scientologists, maoists, progressives, you?

Disagreeing with is now 'picking on', Brian? When did this shift happen?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:28pm

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

All Muslims, Soren. All Muslims, be they good, bad or indifferent. You indiscriminately pick on them all. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ::)

How do I pick on them? By being critical of what they believe?

Nope, by being critical of them, personally, Soren.

It is also the way you are critical of their beliefs. Tell me, do you treat Christian beliefs in the same way? How about Jewish beliefs? Hindu beliefs? Shinto beliefs? I have seen any criticism from you of that at all. Gee, it's almost as if you pick on the Muslims because you are afraid of them, right? ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:50pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

All Muslims, Soren. All Muslims, be they good, bad or indifferent. You indiscriminately pick on them all. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ::)

How do I pick on them? By being critical of what they believe?

Are you going to weep now?? Critical of them personally? Name one Muslims I should not have been critical of, Brian.

I do not pick on Muslims. I am critical of Islam because Islam is by far the worst ideology on your list and it has had by far the worst effect on the world and people.

Accepting Islam and being a Muslim is a conscious decision. Your decisions and adherence to ideology are not above criticism, Brian. Choose something better. There are plenty of better things than Islam.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Sprintcyclist on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:55pm

which mosques are 'Islamist'?

100% of them.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 17^th, 2017 at 10:05pm

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

All Muslims, Soren. All Muslims, be they good, bad or indifferent. You indiscriminately pick on them all. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ::)

How do I pick on them? By being critical of what they believe?

Well, Soren, tell me, do you enjoy it when your personal beliefs are continually criticised and you feel persecuted? How about it when you're beliefs are referred to as what they are, "Islamophobia"? Does that fill you with joy? I have many personal friends who are Muslim. They don't deserve the level of criticism that you direct towards their beliefs, any more than Christians or Jews or Hindus or members of any other religion deserve to be persecuted by someone who is as ignorant as you have been shown to be on numerous occasions. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 17^th, 2017 at 10:05pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 9:55pm:

which mosques are 'Islamist'?

100% of them.

Evidence, Sprint. Otherwise I'll just assume you're trolling. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 18^th, 2017 at 8:13pm

Brian how do you think we should decide which mosques to close?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 18^th, 2017 at 10:32pm

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Brian how do you think we should decide which mosques to close?

How do you decide which tinted races to ban?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 19^th, 2017 at 9:33am

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Frank wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

All I do is ask you to treat Muslims fairly, Soren. That you appear unable to do so indicates what about you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Name one Muslim I have treated unfairly, Brian. (Criticising Islam and its teachings is not unfair treatment)

All Muslims, Soren. All Muslims, be they good, bad or indifferent. You indiscriminately pick on them all. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ::)

Really bwian.... even for a lying hypocrite like you that's a very very long stretch.... got no proof have you ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just tossing out libel left right and centre as ususal.
How about all the nonsense you spouted about one nation and its members bwian.... wait... wait... sorry not past tense you still spout it bwian even after 20 years you still spout it even after you've been proven wrong on countless occasions... tsk, tsk tsk bwian oh dearie dearie me... :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 19^th, 2017 at 9:35am

Karnal wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 10:32pm:

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Brian how do you think we should decide which mosques to close?

How do you decide which tinted races to ban?

Islam isn't a race Karnal, but just in case I missed something which "tint" are Muslism? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 19^th, 2017 at 11:29am

Grendel wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 9:35am:

Karnal wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 10:32pm:

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Brian how do you think we should decide which mosques to close?

How do you decide which tinted races to ban?

Islam isn't a race Karnal, but just in case I missed something which "tint" are Muslism? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Don't tell Frank that, Grendel. Correlation not causation, innit.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:54pm

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Brian how do you think we should decide which mosques to close?

How about listening to what the Imam is saying, FD? How about listening to what the members are saying? Or is that too hard for you?

I'm sure you have your own ideas, FD. You always do, don't you?

How about you put them before us and we can check to see how Islamophobic/Racist/Xenophobic they are, OK? ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 19^th, 2017 at 7:32pm

Quote:

How about listening to what the Imam is saying, FD? How about listening to what the members are saying? Or is that too hard for you?

You are a genius Brian. Let's give it a go. Gandalf, how do you tell which mosques should be shut down for being Islamist?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 19^th, 2017 at 8:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

This is predicatably stupid, Brian. Are you not critical of ANY religious, political, ethical belief system or ideology?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 19^th, 2017 at 8:36pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 7:32pm:

Quote:

How about listening to what the Imam is saying, FD? How about listening to what the members are saying? Or is that too hard for you?

You are a genius Brian. Let's give it a go. Gandalf, how do you tell which mosques should be shut down for being Islamist?

I don't think it would be terribly difficult to ascertain if any particular mosques are of an 'Islamist' slant. Islamists aren't usually known for their subtlety or attempts to conceal their agenda. Once you identify them, monitor them - and if they are deemed to be inciting violence, close them.

Of course, as we all know, actual terrorists and/or purveyors of violent Islamist ideology are invariably found outside any established, official "mosques". As any terrorist expert will tell you, attendance at one of these established, official mosques makes you less likely to be an extremist.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:46am

Frank wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 8:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

This is predicatably stupid, Brian. Are you not critical of ANY religious, political, ethical belief system or ideology?

Of course I am critical, Soren. It is the method I use where we differ. I don't treat other's beliefs with utter contempt in the way you Muslims. I engage in a Socratic dialogue to discover exactly what they are talking about before I criticise them, Soren. You should try it, it might be a revelation to you. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 20^th, 2017 at 8:35am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 7:32pm:

Quote:

How about listening to what the Imam is saying, FD? How about listening to what the members are saying? Or is that too hard for you?

You are a genius Brian. Let's give it a go. Gandalf, how do you tell which mosques should be shut down for being Islamist?

How do you identify and monitor them?

What is an "Islamist" slant? Reading from the Koran?

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The only way you could possibly know this is if you have visited every single Mosque in Australia on a Friday. Have you done that Baron?

Have you ever seen this happen at a Mosque Gandalf?

How do you tell which Mosques should be shut down? Would you be in favour of shutting down mosques that do as Baron suggested?

Gandalf would this identify a mosque as Islamist?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 20^th, 2017 at 10:29am

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 8:35am:

What is an "Islamist" slant? Reading from the Koran?

Hizb ut Tahrir is a good example of an "Islamist" slant - yet they are an unusual breed of Islamist in that they have renounced violence. So clearly being "Islamist" itself isn't justification enough to shut them down.

And you're right - authorities can't simply start gatecrashing Mosque sermons on suspicion that they are inciting violence. But there are other things you can do - monitor what they publish, watch their facebook page, and of course follow up on any leads on actual illegal activity. Basically whatever the authorities did to shut down that Brisbane Islamic "bookstore" that was fronting as an ISIS recruitment agency. That would be a good case study.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 20^th, 2017 at 10:41am

Grendel wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 9:35am:

Karnal wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 10:32pm:

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Brian how do you think we should decide which mosques to close?

How do you decide which tinted races to ban?

Islam isn't a race Karnal, but just in case I missed something which "tint" are Muslims? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 20^th, 2017 at 10:45am

Brian Ross wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:46am:

Frank wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 8:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

This is predicatably stupid, Brian. Are you not critical of ANY religious, political, ethical belief system or ideology?

It might be a revelation to you too bwian... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lying hypocrites such as yourself should not throw stones bwian :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 20^th, 2017 at 10:52am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 7:32pm:

Quote:

How about listening to what the Imam is saying, FD? How about listening to what the members are saying? Or is that too hard for you?

You are a genius Brian. Let's give it a go. Gandalf, how do you tell which mosques should be shut down for being Islamist?

Mosques eh....
Should we then to avoid pedantic lies by omission talk about Islamic groups, Imams, Bookstores and Prayer rooms?

I recall several of those and a particular Wahhabist Prayer Room that have fomented radicalism and violence. :D
Oh and Curtis Cheng's murder seems to have been organised through members of the Parramatta mosque.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:40pm

So whats your solution Grendel? Do you support bans? Under what circumstances? I'm interested to know - I don't think I've ever heard your opinion on the matter.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 20^th, 2017 at 1:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:40pm:

So whats your solution Grendel? Do you support bans? Under what circumstances? I'm interested to know - I don't think I've ever heard your opinion on the matter.

Don't waste Grendel's time.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 8:35am:

What is an "Islamist" slant? Reading from the Koran?

Perhaps it was something to do with fronting as an ISIS recruitment agency. Short of that, how do you decide which mosques to shut down? I can't tell whether you think HuT ideology would suffice.

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 8:35am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The only way you could possibly know this is if you have visited every single Mosque in Australia on a Friday. Have you done that Baron?

Have you ever seen this happen at a Mosque Gandalf?

How do you tell which Mosques should be shut down? Would you be in favour of shutting down mosques that do as Baron suggested?

Gandalf would this identify a mosque as Islamist?

Gandalf?

I am also curious about your logic about the 'only way' to know what happens in all the mosques. For example, can I safely say that they all talk about Muhammad Pubah without visiting every one?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:57pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:40pm:

So whats your solution Grendel? Do you support bans? Under what circumstances? I'm interested to know - I don't think I've ever heard your opinion on the matter.

Well the best most complete and effective solution would to have no Muslims here.

Care to argue where that would be wrong?

Discussed it with bwian already, he has no solution, his all involve after the fact measures...

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 20^th, 2017 at 6:36pm

Grendel wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:57pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:40pm:

So whats your solution Grendel? Do you support bans? Under what circumstances? I'm interested to know - I don't think I've ever heard your opinion on the matter.

Well the best most complete and effective solution would to have no Muslims here.

Don't beat around the bush grendel - are you advocating a complete ban - including mass deportation of the ones that are here?

Quote:

Care to argue where that would be wrong?

Lets be more clear on what you are actually proposing before we argue the merits of it shall we? What exactly is your proposal in terms of your sentiment "the best most complete and effective solution would to have no Muslims here."? Specifics please.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am

You asked me for a solution.
I gave you one.
So now stop crapping on and bleating.
Would it work? If not why not? ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:12pm

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am:

Would it work? If not why not?

I agree, "not having muslims here" would indeed remove the muslim threat to Australia. Just like "not having men here" would remove the rape threat in an instant.

But it is not a "solution". Its a fantasy with no appreciation of the reality on the ground. Namely, there are half a million muslims in Australia, how do you propose we magically "not have" them here anymore? Kill them? Deport them? How do you propose deporting half a million Australian residents g?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:12pm:

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am:

Would it work? If not why not?

I agree, "not having muslims here" would indeed remove the muslim threat to Australia. Just like "not having men here" would remove the rape threat in an instant.

But it is not a "solution". Its a fantasy with no appreciation of the reality on the ground. Namely, there are half a million muslims in Australia, how do you propose we magically "not have" them here anymore? Kill them? Deport them? How do you propose deporting half a million Australian residents g?

How do you propose we identify and close the Islamist mosques?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:33pm

posts# 95 and 98 FD

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:34pm

You mean the example of the Islamic bookstore fronting as a recruitment agency for ISIS?

Is that your answer to how we identify and close Islamist mosques Gandalf?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:36pm

How about you read all of what I said.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 22^nd, 2017 at 3:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:12pm:

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am:

Would it work? If not why not?

I agree, "not having muslims here" would indeed remove the muslim threat to Australia. Just like "not having men here" would remove the rape threat in an instant.

But it is not a "solution".

YES IT IS YOU JUST AGREED THAT IT WAS>>>>

Its a fantasy with no appreciation of the reality on the ground.

No it is a solution... you agree remember...

Namely, there are half a million muslims in Australia, how do you propose we magically "not have" them here anymore?

Deportation.

Kill them? Deport them? How do you propose deporting half a million Australian residents g?

Same way you deport 1... You can kill them if you like NAZI. BTW you asked for a solution. I presented one. You agreed to it... good, because it is correct. You didn't ask me for the nuts and bolts of how to actually achieve it and I don't expect that I could post the complete perfect solution here either. But we could do my solution and threaten with yours and see just how many remain after the fact.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 22^nd, 2017 at 4:25pm

Grendel wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 3:23pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:12pm:

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am:

Would it work? If not why not?

I agree, "not having muslims here" would indeed remove the muslim threat to Australia. Just like "not having men here" would remove the rape threat in an instant.

But it is not a "solution".

YES IT IS YOU JUST AGREED THAT IT WAS>>>>

Its a fantasy with no appreciation of the reality on the ground.

No it is a solution... you agree remember...

Namely, there are half a million muslims in Australia, how do you propose we magically "not have" them here anymore?

Deportation.

Kill them? Deport them? How do you propose deporting half a million Australian residents g?

Same way you deport 1... You can kill them if you like NAZI. BTW you asked for a solution. I presented one. You agreed to it... good, because it is correct. You didn't ask me for the nuts and bolts of how to actually achieve it and I don't expect that I could post the complete perfect solution here either. But we could do my solution and threaten with yours and see just how many remain after the fact.

Thanks for kinda answering g.

However it is not a solution without the "nuts and bolts of how to actually achieve it". And you don't attempt to present them because you can't. It is impossible and ridiculous - and I think you know that. Ergo, its not a solution.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 22^nd, 2017 at 6:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 4:25pm:

Grendel wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 3:23pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:12pm:

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am:

Would it work? If not why not?

I agree, "not having muslims here" would indeed remove the muslim threat to Australia. Just like "not having men here" would remove the rape threat in an instant.

But it is not a "solution".

YES IT IS YOU JUST AGREED THAT IT WAS>>>>

Its a fantasy with no appreciation of the reality on the ground.

No it is a solution... you agree remember...

Namely, there are half a million muslims in Australia, how do you propose we magically "not have" them here anymore?

Deportation.

Kill them? Deport them? How do you propose deporting half a million Australian residents g?

Same way you deport 1... You can kill them if you like NAZI. BTW you asked for a solution. I presented one. You agreed to it... good, because it is correct. You didn't ask me for the nuts and bolts of how to actually achieve it and I don't expect that I could post the complete perfect solution here either. But we could do my solution and threaten with yours and see just how many remain after the fact.

Oh I can present them.
It is THE Solution... YOU ADMITTED IT WAS...
Now stop being disingenous like bwian is all the time.
I suggest instead of trying to make it all my responsibility being a MUSLIM... YOU should come up with a viable nuts and bolts method of reaching that SOLUTION we both agree will work.
I await your constructive input for a change. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 22^nd, 2017 at 7:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:36pm:

How about you read all of what I said.

I did. You still haven't answered the question. It is quite an astonishing thing to see a Muslim proposing the closing down of Mosques, then leaving it totally up in the air how we go about selecting mosques for closure.

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 8:35am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The only way you could possibly know this is if you have visited every single Mosque in Australia on a Friday. Have you done that Baron?

Have you ever seen this happen at a Mosque Gandalf?

How do you tell which Mosques should be shut down? Would you be in favour of shutting down mosques that do as Baron suggested?

Gandalf would this identify a mosque as Islamist?

Gandalf are you familiar with this prayer?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 22^nd, 2017 at 8:18pm

freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 7:05pm:

I did.

Clearly you didn't.

Go back and read it again. Perhaps you can quote it in your next reply (in its entirety) and we can go through it together, and you can explain to me what part of the answer you don't understand.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 22^nd, 2017 at 8:41pm

I have tried going through it with you several times already. No success so far.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 23^rd, 2017 at 7:58am

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Perhaps it was something to do with fronting as an ISIS recruitment agency. Short of that, how do you decide which mosques to shut down?

Short of what? Conducting illegal activity?

I've never suggested it should be anything "longer" than illegal activity. Of course you can't ban Hizb ut Tahrir when they renounce violence. I assume though that calling followers to go forth and behead the infidel wherever they find them (for example) is illegal - and should be banned wherever it occurs. How the police find out about this sort of incitement is the question.

I suspect your goal here is to attempt to entrap me attacking free speech - yes?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:01am

freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 7:05pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 8:35am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 7:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 4^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

All mosques start Friday prayer with Imams asking Allah to give muslims victory over the Qawm al-Kafirun (Non Muslims).

;D Where do you come up with this crap Baron?

The only way you could possibly know this is if you have visited every single Mosque in Australia on a Friday. Have you done that Baron?

Have you ever seen this happen at a Mosque Gandalf?

How do you tell which Mosques should be shut down? Would you be in favour of shutting down mosques that do as Baron suggested?

Gandalf would this identify a mosque as Islamist?

Gandalf are you familiar with this prayer?

What if they do this Gandalf? It is not illegal to call for victory over the infidel, as far as I can tell.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:27am

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:01am:

What if they do this Gandalf? It is not illegal to call for victory over the infidel, as far as I can tell.

Is it inciting violence?

Also, I've never heard this at any mosque I've attended.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

An Islamist mosque has produced terrorists already. The 'normal' ones, not yet.

This is what they are handing out in a 'normal' mosque:

‘Living in a society in which people have accepted Western lifestyle as their way of life brings immorality at every step. Modesty, shame and honour have no place in Western civilisation.’”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/809876/manchester-attack-didsbuy-mosque-leaflet-attack-terror-salman-abedi

When handed out by a 'normal' mosque this is 'out of context'.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

As was stated by the Mosque, the pamphlet was not an official one from the Mosque itself. Further, I have a question, Soren - do you support Freedom of Speech for everybody but Muslims? Are they denied the same rights that you claim for yourself? Tsk, tsk. Bloody typical of Islamphobes/Xenophobes/Racists. One rule for them, one rule for us, hey? ::) ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:36pm

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

Why the pre-occupation with honour and shame? Why not virtue and truth?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

What is the 'official' Muslim position on anything, Brian?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:52pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

Why the pre-occupation with honour and shame? Why not virtue and truth?

Tribal versus individual values.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 28^th, 2017 at 7:08pm

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

What is the 'official' Muslim position on anything, Brian?

In this case, it is what the Mosque determines. Soren. The Mosque has determined that was not an official Mosque publication. Why do you find it so hard to accept a non-hierarchical religion? Do you feel the need to bow and scrape to the Pope? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 28^th, 2017 at 8:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

What is the 'official' Muslim position on anything, Brian?

It wasn't the mosque, just some random Muslima who has been to the mosque. The leaflet WAS in the official mosque handout pack.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 29^th, 2017 at 7:12pm

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 8:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

What is the 'official' Muslim position on anything, Brian?

It wasn't the mosque, just some random Muslima who has been to the mosque. The leaflet WAS in the official mosque handout pack.

So, you're holding the Mosque, the entire religion of Islam responsible for what some "random Muslims" slipped into the "official Mosque handout pack"? Really? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 7:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 8:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

What is the 'official' Muslim position on anything, Brian?

It wasn't the mosque, just some random Muslima who has been to the mosque. The leaflet WAS in the official mosque handout pack.

So, you're holding the Mosque, the entire religion of Islam responsible for what some "random Muslims" slipped into the "official Mosque handout pack"? Really? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Yes, I do.

I am not buying the crap about nobody taking responsibility for Islam teeming with crazy murderers quoting the Koran as they kill, maim, rape and pillage.

I most certainly do hold Islam responsible for all the murderous inhumanity committed in its name. And I do hold all the Muslims responsible for the state of Islam today.

Yes, I do.

Who else could be responsible for the way Islam is today but Muslims?? YOU????

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

[
Yes, I do.

I am not buying the crap about nobody taking responsibility for Islam teeming with crazy murderers quoting the Koran as they kill, maim, rape and pillage.

I most certainly do hold Islam responsible for all the murderous inhumanity committed in its name. And I do hold all the Muslims responsible for the state of Islam today.

Yes, I do.

Who else could be responsible for the way Islam is today but Muslims?? YOU????

Nope, how about you, Soren?

In reality, Muslims are responsible only for their own interpretations of the Koran and Mohammed's teachings. You however, appear to believe that Islam should be organised like something else, in fact, like Christianity, with it's hierarchical structure, where each believer believes what they are told to believe. Tsk, tsk. ::)

If a Muslim chooses to believe what someone else suggests they should believe, that is their own choice, not the choice of a Mosque or a Church. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 30^th, 2017 at 8:20am

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

You've got it completely backwards Brian. Christianity has no inherent structure. Islam does. Muhammad and the rightly guided Caliphs were military, religious and political leaders. The only reason it does not look like this today is because, out of necessity, non-Muslims broke that structure in an attempt to impose civilisation on Muslims.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 30^th, 2017 at 10:50am

Brian Ross wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 7:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 8:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 5:31pm:

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Not directly. There are other bits in the Koran that are far more direct.

What is the difference between an Islamist mosque and a 'normal' one?

What is the 'official' Muslim position on anything, Brian?

It wasn't the mosque, just some random Muslima who has been to the mosque. The leaflet WAS in the official mosque handout pack.

So, you're holding the Mosque, the entire religion of Islam responsible for what some "random Muslims" slipped into the "official Mosque handout pack"? Really? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Really bwian you go beyond stupidity sometimes. You think any organisation, or church or mosque would allow unsourced, unchecked material to be included in their "official handout pack"? Really? :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 30^th, 2017 at 10:53am

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

Bwian has spoken everyone...
Islam is not an organised religion, it has no real meaning because individuals can interpret it as whatever they wish there is no substance to Islam, nothing to see her folks move along.... :D :D :D :D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 30^th, 2017 at 11:07am

Oh Bwian...

Islam is not organised like Christianity, wow really. But to say it has no organisation, or hierachy is just a tad disingenuous isn't it.

There are many concepts of teachers in Islam. Islam does not have an explicit hierarchy, thus the concepts and names for spiritual teachers and secular functions are often mixed and easily confused. A list of terms used in various Islamic traditions follows:

The Marja is a label used by the Shia community, meaning source to follow.
The most respected of the Marjas are entitled Allamah. This Persian name for Teacher is also used by some Sunnis to denote a teacher of extraordinary respect.
Ulema/Ulama is the title that indicates that the teacher has come to awareness of the consensus, the ijma, of the Umma. Umma is the universal community of all the followers of God as understood by the Muslim community (cf. Sangha, Ecclesia)
Mufti is a someone who interprets or expounds Islamic law (Sharia and fiqh)
Muhaddith is someone who has profound knowledge of the Haddith, and teaches by Narration, or storytelling.
Mullah is often the title of the teachers at the Madrasahs, Islamic schools. Mullah is a teacher in regard of being respected as a vicar and guardian of Qur'an and the Islamic traditions.
The Shia believe that an Imam can lead mankind in all aspects of life. The Imam is appointed by God. Muhammad informed that the number of Caliphs after him will be 12. The majority of the Muslim world are awaiting the 12th Imam: The Mahdi, either as a first time appearance or as a reappearance after a long occultation. The Mahdi is the greatest teacher, the Messiah of the Islamic World, and the Maitreya of Buddhism.
Mawlawi is a Persian word for teacher meaning Master.
Sheikh is an Arabic honorific term that literally means Elder. It is a long historic debate in many cultures whether the elder in itself denotes the role and status of a teacher.
Ayatollah is a high ranking title given to Shi'a clerics.
Mujaddid is someone is sent by God to aid the Umma and revive Islam at the beginning of every century .
Marabout is a spiritual teacher of Islam as it is taught in the West Africa and Maghreb, The word comes from the Berber concept of Saint. The "marabout" is known as "Sayyed" (سيد) to the Arabic speaking Maghribians teachers of Islam teach scholars

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 30^th, 2017 at 11:24am

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 8:20am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

That's right, FD - non-Muslims like the Ottoman caliphs.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 30^th, 2017 at 1:03pm

The catholic church has "no inherent structure"? k

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 30^th, 2017 at 3:12pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 1:03pm:

The catholic church has "no inherent structure"? k

The Catholic Church is highly organised.
But then it is only 1 of many Christian Churches.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 30^th, 2017 at 4:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 1:03pm:

The catholic church has "no inherent structure"? k

Oh, I know. Neither does the Anglican church.

God save the queen, no?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:43pm

Can you point out where this structure is based on something Jesus said or did?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

So Islam is the ultimate fragmentation and atomisation of society, each Muslims making up unique and individual interpretations of life, the universe and everything and they do not form, in any way, a community of views, ethics, standards, there is zero shared understanding of anything, Islam is the ultimate fragmented individualism. Islam is the ultimate consumer religion - individual, autonomous 'choice' is GOD. Margaret Thatcher, eat your heart out - Muslims knew 1400 years ago that there is no such thing as society, only 'CHOICE'.

I have a very low opinion of you, Yawning Jihadi, but with this crap you prove yourself EVEN stupider than I could imagine. I wouldn't expect anyone over about 20 to be so ignorant, unaware, uneducated and stupid. Either that or you are saying mad things because you want to say mad things.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:54pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Can you point out where this structure is based on something Jesus said or did?

No, and thats not what you said either - nor did Brian.

Brian's point is valid - catholic beliefs are very much influenced by what the church hierarchy believes. This is because of the structure - which you just denied existed.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 30^th, 2017 at 7:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Can you point out where this structure is based on something Jesus said or did?

Your Islamic beliefs are a mass of self-contradictory idiocies. That is the case even if there are other sets of self-contradictory beliefs. You shouldn't be hiding your stupidity behind other people's stupidity. Or are you saying that Islam is nothing but a silly emulation of silliness that went before it?

Is Islam an improvement or not? If yes, how? How is Islam better than anything else?

Don't tell us how Islam is as stupid as everyone else. What's the point of your converting to Islam in that case and arguing the hind leg off a donkey here, day in day out, about Islam???

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:18pm

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

Muslims appear to know that they have a choice - which you have alluded to, Soren. It is though, their choice, not the choice (in theory at least) of anybody else around them, according to Mohammed's teachings. Either accept Allah or you don't. Simples really.

Everything else that exists within Islam today, stems from that choice and of course from Mohammed's illiteracy and because of that, a lack of record keeping. Instead we have interpretation, interpretation provided by those who are learned in the ways of the Koran and the Hadiths - the Imam or the Mullah. Whether a believer believes what those tell them about the Koran and the Hadiths is another matter of choice, Soren.

In Christianity, you have no choice, your beliefs are determined for you, they are written down like Mohammed's were, long after the events which surrounded, according to the Church, Jesus Christ. Those events, those beliefs have been interpreted and reinterpreted time and time again. The Church has made no secret that it has modified it's beliefs to suit the occasion. It has held theological conferences where it created the official line(s).

Effectively there isn't much difference but what has resulted is a strict hierarchy in one and a much more fluid hierarchy in the other. Beliefs are not as strict generally in Islam as they are in Christianity. ::)

Quote:

I have a very low opinion of you, Yawning Jihadi, but with this crap you prove yourself EVEN stupider than I could imagine. I wouldn't expect anyone over about 20 to be so ignorant, unaware, uneducated and stupid. Either that or you are saying mad things because you want to say mad things.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Frank on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:42pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

You are a prize idiot.

You would have us believe that the people who end every sentence with 'Insh'allah' are the ones with freedom and the ones who have given us freedom of conscience an universal human rights are the ones with no freedom of conscience and though.

You are stupid, you are ignorant, you are laughable, Brian.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 30^th, 2017 at 10:38pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

Nope, how about you, Soren?

In reality, Muslims are responsible only for their own interpretations of the Koran and Mohammed's teachings. Wow bwian... in reality every individual of every religion it is the same.
You however, appear to believe that Islam should be organised like something else, in fact, like Christianity, with it's hierarchical structure, where each believer believes what they are told to believe. Tsk, tsk. ::)

If a Muslim chooses to believe what someone else suggests they should believe, that is their own choice, not the choice of a Mosque or a Church. ::)
Good grief... time for you to take a long holiday... every sane individual has the same choice no matter their religion bwian.

Muslims appear to know that they have a choice - which you have alluded to, Soren. It is though, their choice, not the choice (in theory at least) of anybody else around them, according to Mohammed's teachings. Either accept Allah or you don't. Simples really. Well some texts in the koran would dispute that freedom bwian. As for free will and the freedom to choose... we all have that bwian, not just Muslims.

Everything else that exists within Islam today, stems from that choice and of course from Mohammed's illiteracy and because of that, a lack of record keeping. Instead we have interpretation, interpretation provided by those who are learned in the ways of the Koran and the Hadiths - the Imam or the Mullah. Oh, you mean the authorised hierachy... Whether a believer believes what those tell them about the Koran and the Hadiths is another matter of choice, Soren. yes bwian choice that every human has in every religion, culture or creed.

In Christianity, you have no choice, WRONG BWIAN WRONG... your beliefs are determined for you, they are written down like Mohammed's were, long after the events which surrounded, according to the Church, Jesus Christ. Those events, those beliefs have been interpreted and reinterpreted time and time again. The Church has made no secret that it has modified it's beliefs to suit the occasion. It has held theological conferences where it created the official line(s).

Effectively there isn't much difference but what has resulted is a strict hierarchy in one and a much more fluid hierarchy in the other. Beliefs are not as strict generally in Islam as they are in Christianity. ::)
I think you will find the religion that has a death penalty for apostasy is much stricter bwian.

Quote:

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:56am

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Appears that Soren is stumped so he's reverted to ad hominem argument rather than admit that he is wrong on this. Tsk, tsk, I really don't understand why you bother, Soren. I really don't. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:27am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Can you point out where this structure is based on something Jesus said or did?

What did I actually say Gandalf?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 31^st, 2017 at 9:48am

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:56am:

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

No bwian he's not... YOU ARE A PRIZED IDIOT.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 31^st, 2017 at 10:18am

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:27am:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Can you point out where this structure is based on something Jesus said or did?

What did I actually say Gandalf?

Tell him, G.

FD's forgotten.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 11:03am

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:27am:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

Can you point out where this structure is based on something Jesus said or did?

What did I actually say Gandalf?

"Christianity has no inherent structure"

You'll notice the distinct absense of anything about 'what Jesus said or did'.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 11:08am

And before FD chimes in with 'oh but by 'inherent' I meant what Jesus said or did' - Christianity is far more 'inherently' about institutions and doctrine that was written decades and centuries after Jesus.

The Pope, for example - is obviously an "inherent" institution of catholicism, which as far as I'm aware is based on nothing Jesus "said or did".

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:12pm

Quote:

inherent
ɪnˈhɪər(ə)nt,ɪnˈhɛr(ə)nt/
adjective
adjective: inherent

existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
"any form of mountaineering has its inherent dangers"
synonyms: intrinsic, innate, immanent, built-in, inborn, ingrained, deep-rooted; More
essential, fundamental, basic, implicit, structural, characteristic, organic;
inseparable, permanent, indelible, ineradicable, ineffaceable, inexpungible;
natural, instinctive, instinctual, congenital, native;
rareconnate, connatural
"his belief in the inherent goodness of man"
antonyms: acquired, alien
      Law
      vested in (someone) as a right or privilege.
      Linguistics
      (of an adjective) having the same meaning in both attributive and predicative uses.

Personally I think the only thing inherent about Christianity is Jesus and his teachings.

There are many forms/structures of church within Christianity. The Organisational hierarchy also differs from church to church...
So fd may have you there on a technicality G.... I haven't really been following the sidetracks with much enthusiasm.

Have we decided if we can tell which mosques are 'Islamist' yet? ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 11:08am:

Christianity is, by definition, what Jesus said and did.

Gandalf you still haven't given us an explanation of how you would identify Islamist mosques for closure by the government.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:56pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:42pm:

Christianity is, by definition, what Jesus said and did.

So catholicism is not part of christianity then?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 31^st, 2017 at 1:06pm

No more so than an individual who identifies themselves as Christian is part of Christianity. Christianity is a doctrine, a religion, not a small state inside Italy. It is defined entirely by what Jesus said and did.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm

Quote:

It is defined entirely by what Jesus said and did.

Well thats simply not true. There's the Old Testament to start with.

And besides, a religion is not just a doctrine, it has to include how its adherents and leaders actually practice their religion. And that clearly involves a great deal more than what you narrowly define as 'doctrine'.And Brian was absolutely right - 'christianity' indeed does has structure, and it has a great bearing on dictating what large numbers of its adherents believe.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm

Quote:

Well thats simply not true. There's the Old Testament to start with.

Do you know why that is included in the Bible Gandalf? I can give you a hint if you'd like, but you can probably figure it out yourself.

Quote:

And besides, a religion is not just a doctrine, it has to include how its adherents and leaders actually practice their religion.

Would you say Islam is defined by how people corrupt it? ISIS for example? Or are they just following Muhammad's actual example? How about your fellow reformer Aug?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 3:35pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm:

Do you know why that is included in the Bible Gandalf?

Is this a trick question?

Are you going to somehow explain to me how a part of Christian doctrine written before Jesus was born is all about 'what Jesus said and did'?

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm:

Would you say Islam is defined by how people corrupt it? ISIS for example? Or are they just following Muhammad's actual example? How about your fellow reformer Aug?

Absolutely FD.

Islam, to turn a phrase, is quite the 'broad church'.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm:

Quote:

It is defined entirely by what Jesus said and did.

Well thats simply not true. There's the Old Testament to start with.

Oh dear just how many times have we been over this with you Muslims and Converts and atheists?

And besides, a religion is not just a doctrine, it has to include how its adherents and leaders actually practice their religion. And that clearly involves a great deal more than what you narrowly define as 'doctrine'.And Brian was absolutely right - 'christianity' indeed does has structure, and it has a great bearing on dictating what large numbers of its adherents believe.
bwian wasn't right.... he's an idiot. Churches/organised Religions... have structure even Islam does and I already showed that..

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:50pm

Grendel wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Churches/organised Religions... have structure

Ah. Seems I'm not the one you should be trying to convince G.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:50pm:

Grendel wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Churches/organised Religions... have structure

Ah. Seems I'm not the one you should be trying to convince G.

Well you did say bwian was right.... and he's not. You have some work to do it would seem.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm:

Do you know why that is included in the Bible Gandalf?

Is this a trick question?

Are you going to somehow explain to me how a part of Christian doctrine written before Jesus was born is all about 'what Jesus said and did'?

It's because Jesus said he was part of that tradition, or something along those lines. Not because the Catholic church decided the Bible needed a bit of padding with an eye for an eye.

You can be a Christian without ever attending church. You can have churches that abandon Christian doctrine or are attended by non-Christians. Hence, Christianity is defined some other way. Ask any Christian. They will be happy to tell you all about Jesus.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:57pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:48pm:

It's because Jesus said he was part of that tradition

Yes, but that tradition is certainly not "what Jesus said and did". Exodus's statement of monotheism is a central part of Christian doctrine - as is the 10 commandments.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 31^st, 2017 at 8:30pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 12:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 11:08am:

Christianity is, by definition, what Jesus said and did..

Ah. You've been reading Moses, Sprint and Y's posts, haven't you?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on May 31^st, 2017 at 8:38pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm:

Do you know why that is included in the Bible Gandalf?

Is this a trick question?

Are you going to somehow explain to me how a part of Christian doctrine written before Jesus was born is all about 'what Jesus said and did'?

Sounds like you've missed the Nicean Creed, FD. This defines exactly what it means to be a Christian.

Unlike your Muselman, they're quite strict about it. You?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by moses on May 31^st, 2017 at 8:44pm

A wise bloke once said: Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing,

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Brian Ross on May 31^st, 2017 at 9:37pm

moses wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 8:44pm:

A wise bloke once said: Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing,

I'd suggest beware of those being scribed, Moses. They get upset when it's read back to them. ::)

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 8:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:48pm:

It's because Jesus said he was part of that tradition

Yes, but that tradition is certainly not "what Jesus said and did". Exodus's statement of monotheism is a central part of Christian doctrine - as is the 10 commandments.

So you think Jesus would have had to recite the entire old testament rather than just referring to it, in order for it to be part of his religion?

In any case, what structure is there in the OT? The only one I am aware of is a temple, which no longer exists and as far as I know is never built to the old specs.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 12:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm:

Do you know why that is included in the Bible Gandalf?

Would you say Islam is defined by how people corrupt it? ISIS for example? Or are they just following Muhammad's actual example? How about your fellow reformer Aug?

Absolutely FD.

Islam, to turn a phrase, is quite the 'broad church'.

So broad in fact.... it comprises of Warring "churches". :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 1:03pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 6:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 2:37pm:

Do you know why that is included in the Bible Gandalf?

Is this a trick question?

Are you going to somehow explain to me how a part of Christian doctrine written before Jesus was born is all about 'what Jesus said and did'?

It's because Jesus said he was part of that tradition, or something along those lines. Not because the Catholic church decided the Bible needed a bit of padding with an eye for an eye.
CHRIST REFUTED "an eye for an eye" A PARTICULARLY JEWISH MINDSET.
You can be a Christian without ever attending church. You can have churches that abandon Christian doctrine or are attended by non-Christians. Hence, Christianity is defined some other way. Ask any Christian. They will be happy to tell you all about Jesus.

Briefly... A Christian is a person who has received a Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings. A Christian is someone who accepts Christ as his/her saviour.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 1:30pm

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 8:48am:

So you think Jesus would have had to recite the entire old testament rather than just referring to it, in order for it to be part of his religion?

That would be the minimum I would think - if the label "what Jesus did and said" is to legitimately apply. There are many things in the OT that are critical to Christian doctrine that are not what "Jesus said and did" - the original sin, statement of monotheism and the revealing of the 10 commandments etc.

Quote:

In any case, what structure is there in the OT? The only one I am aware of is a temple, which no longer exists and as far as I know is never built to the old specs.

This is not the structure debate FD. This is the "Christianity is defined entirely by what Jesus said and did" debate.

As for the (more relevant) structure debate, I refer to the 'structures' in the Catholic church - the hierarchy which rather rigidly passes down rulings and official stances of "the catholic church" - and which I (and Brian) would argue makes many catholics - perhaps not all, but many - to feel compelled to incorporate those rulings and stances in their catholic beliefs. A similar process happens with other Christian denominations - albeit less rigidly.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 2:22pm

Puhlease don't quote or used the Dr of Divinity as a reference or backup, you just end up proving you are ignorant like him or shoot yourself in the foot.

Why talk about "structure"? The Structure of the OT is a book of books divided by chapter and verse. Some books are grouped together like the Pentateuch.

All Christian churches as I pointed out have different structure and organisational hierarchy.

As Islam does and as I have clearly already shown.

So can we now get back to discussing How to Identify which Mosques are Islamist? Today for example they are stating in the media that the threat is only a Sunni Muslim one.
Do you see that as the truth?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 4:55pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 1:06pm:

Christianity ... is defined entirely by what Jesus said and did.

Not at all. Christianity is defined by a belief and faith in Christ, the "Son" of God.

Some churches, such as Hillsong, rarely even preach from the Bible. They aim to kindle the "Holy Spirit" in adherents. What Jesus said and did is neither here nor there: devotion, or a love of Christ, is the aim. This is sought through baptism, prayer, laying of hands, speaking in tongues, etc. Christ is a deity to be worshipped, and rarely an example to be followed.

And this is the sort of "idolatry" that Islam came to overturn.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 5:19pm

Hillsong is more money-making cult than church.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 7:40pm

Quote:

The reason these are so important to Christianity is because they are consistent with Jesus' teachings. The bits that are inconsistent - all the rules, mostly - are less important.

Jesus was not a lawyer in the sense Muhammad was. He was a wandering hippy preaching love and fogiveness. You are applying an Islamic standard that is at odds with how he did his thing. Muhammad was pretty much the opposite of Jesus on this, but you expect the same.

Quote:

This is not the structure debate FD. This is the "Christianity is defined entirely by what Jesus said and did" debate.

I am arguing there is no inherent structure because Christianity is defined by what Jesus said and did. You are arguing there is an inherent structure because the religion is defined by, for example, what the Catholic church decided to do. If you now agree with me that there is no inherent structure, the definition of Christianity loses interest.

Quote:

As for the (more relevant) structure debate, I refer to the 'structures' in the Catholic church - the hierarchy which rather rigidly passes down rulings and official stances of "the catholic church" - and which I (and Brian) would argue makes many catholics - perhaps not all, but many - to feel compelled to incorporate those rulings and stances in their catholic beliefs. A similar process happens with other Christian denominations - albeit less rigidly.

The Catholoic church has an inherent structure defined by whatever makes catholicism. Christianity itself lacks such an inherent structure. Jesus himself did not (apparently) make any effort at all to even write down or preserve his teachings, other than getting people to understand what he was saying by acting in a way that is consistent with his message.

Quote:

Not at all. Christianity is defined by a belief and faith in Christ, the "Son" of God.

Where does that come from Karnal?

Quote:

What Jesus said and did is neither here nor there: devotion, or a love of Christ, is the aim.

How can you be devoted to something or love something without knowing what it is?

Quote:

Christ is a deity to be worshipped, and rarely an example to be followed.

Then by any meaningful definition, they are parting from the religion.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 7:56pm

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 7:40pm:

The Catholoic church has an inherent structure defined by whatever makes catholicism. Christianity itself lacks such an inherent structure.

Ah.

So your argument now is that Catholicism is not Christianity? What about Anglicanism? Presbyterianism? I'm sure if we do enough peeling we can reduce "Christianity" to quite literally nothing at all. Except of course for some vague meaningless notion of "what Jesus said and did".

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 7:58pm

Quote:

So your argument now is that Catholicism is not Christianity?

Do I need to draw a Venn diagram for you Gandalf?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 8:01pm

It was a serious question FD. Your counter to my argument about the 'structure' in catholicism equating to structure in christianity - seems to be to draw a distinction between christianity and catholicism.

If you actually do believe there is a distinction I'm very interested to hear you expand on it.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 8:08pm

Have another go FD.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by freediver on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 8:12pm

Seriously? You deleted my post? I apologise if it caused offense. It was a mathematical construct, not a pair of breasts.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by gandalf on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 8:49pm

So do you think Catholicism is not Christianity?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Karnal on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 9:55pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 5:19pm:

Hillsong is more money-making cult than church.

Apologist.

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 11:18am

Yet an apology from me is nowhere to be seen... :D
Karnal.... you need to be more than just the site cuckoo...

I know more about Hillsong than you... I used to work across from it I know people who were members of it.

Do you know anything about anything? Seems to me you know very little, I keep having to correct you. Not that you post anything sensible that needs to be corrected very often. :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 11:20am

Too difficult to answer is it?
One more time then...

Grendel wrote on Jun 1^st, 2017 at 2:22pm:

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by moses on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 3:24pm

Quote:

And this is the sort of "idolatry" that Islam came to overturn.

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring men to sit down to urinate because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring putting on your pants right leg first because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to take off your pants left leg fist, because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is putting on your right shoe first because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

is taking off your left shoe first because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is when eating, sit with either both knees on the ground or one knee raised or both knees raised, because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to eat with three fingers if possible, because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to: After eating one should lick his fingers, because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to sit and drink, because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to Drink in 3 breaths removing the utensil from the mouth after each sip, because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry"

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to sleep on the right hand side because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to sleep with the right palm under the right cheek because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to keep the knees slightly bent when sleeping because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

When going to the toilet Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to Enter with the left foot because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

* To sit and urinate. One should never urinate whilst Standing.

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to leave the toilet with the right foot because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Is the sunnah of the prophet requiring you to Stroke your penis like milking an animal to secrete all urine because some deformed psychopath did it 1400 years ago "idolatry" ?

Title: Re: which mosques are 'Islamist'?
Post by Grendel on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 5:24pm

Quote:

Idolatry

Idolatry literally means the worship of an "idol", also known as a cult image, in the form of a physical image, such as a statue or icon. In Abrahamic religions, namely Christianity, Islam and Judaism, idolatry connotes the worship of something or someone other than God as if it were God.