http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-24/top-water-bureaucrat-offered-confidential-documents-to-lobbyists/8738568


Murray-Darling Basin Plan: Irrigation lobbyists offered access to confidential government documents

he top water bureaucrat in NSW, Gavin Hanlon, has been secretly recorded offering to confidentially share internal government information with irrigation lobbyists — documents he proposed to strip of government logos and share via a special Dropbox account — to assist their lobbying against the contentious Murray-Darling Basin Plan.


One of the cases under investigation by the former Strategic Investigations Unit involved a prominent cotton grower from the NSW and Queensland border at Mungindi, Anthony Barlow.
What is the Murray-Darling Basin Plan again?

The Murray-Darling Basin Plan has remained controversial ever since its introduction back in 2012. So, why is it back on the agenda?

Documents seen by Four Corners show he was pumping water during an embargo in 2015 which had been established to ensure sufficient water flowed down the Barwon-Darling system to replenish Broken Hill's dwindling drinking supply.

The embargo, which ran during the first six months of 2015, was gazetted under NSW law and publicly advertised.

But when questioned by NSW officials, Mr Barlow claimed he had received permission to take the water from the then NSW minister for water, Kevin Humphries.

"We sat in a Barwon-Darling water users meeting at Bourke where the then-minister, Kevin Humphries, stated on three separate occasions, after being questioned directly by the members of the room, is it an event-by-event basis? To which he said, 'Yes, it has to be announced that flow in the river is embargoed,'" Mr Barlow said.

"I thought that would be enough, he was the Minister."

Mr Humphries did not respond to a request for a comment.

In a formal briefing for senior departmental officials, investigators wrote that as many as 1.191 gigalitres — or 1.1 billion litres — may have been pumped on Mr Barlow's property Burren Downs in contravention of NSW law.

Mr Barlow declined to comment.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-24/sa-water-minister-calls-for-inquiry-over-murray-darling-4corners/8739546

And the program showed how billions of litres of water, purchased by taxpayers and earmarked for the environment, was being used on cotton farms in New South Wales.

Mr Hunter called for an urgent COAG meeting to commission a judicial inquiry, saying it was needed to determine how much was known by members of the New South Wales Government.

"The New South Wales Government must answer the allegations made on tonight's Four Corners program," he said.

"If the allegations are correct, that at a very senior level in the public service in New South Wales that people have turned a blind eye to this, then that is very concerning."
What is the Murray-Darling Basin Plan again?

The Murray-Darling Basin Plan has remained controversial ever since its introduction back in 2012. So, why is it back on the agenda?

"There needs to be an independent judicial review — independent of government [and] independent of politics — [with] a senior judicial figure, because this strikes at the very heart of the public service in New South Wales, if the allegations are correct."

Most politicians and their politics are just an opportunity to feather one's nest.
So cotton growers are doing the same thing and in part, crapping on everyone else down river.
Same as people cheating on their taxes. Pinching a grape from the supermarket.

Boo Hoo ... It's human nature to be greedy. 


Just don't be the last to realise ... the system is for gaming. And only idiots don't game it.
The system is collapsing and it's too late to stop it. So pull finger and rip as many people off as you can.

Make it your goal each and every day.

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 7:53am:

Most politicians and their politics are just an opportunity to feather one's nest. So cotton growers are doing the same thing and in part, crapping on everyone else down river. Same as people cheating on their taxes. Pinching a grape from the supermarket. Boo Hoo ... It's human nature to be greedy.  Just don't be the last to realise ... the system is for gaming. And only idiots don't game it. The system is collapsing and it's too late to stop it. So pull finger and rip as many people off as you can. Make it your goal each and every day.

partially correct.
pull your finger out and get on the narrow road to success
BUT you will do much better by contributing , giving first to your customers that you may recieve, developing an awesome reputation as a trustworthy person.

this is the paradox of how to "game the system".

no one owes you sh*t , you have to have faith that by contributing you will get more back.
you have to have faith that there is an abundance of wealth out there.
you have to have faith that the universe will reward you if you learn these principles , apply these principles and stick to the dammed principles every waking moment of every day.
if you go into 'taker mentality", if you ask "what can i get from this  person, from this politician, from this situation"....then you are screwed.
now get out there and make THIS your goal every day

Success is measured by the amount of currency one steals from others.

Contributing is slavery. Why offer your talents when you are underpaid and under valued.

We are in a period of global anarchy. Most people haven't realised this yet and so it's still great pickings available to rip off and feather your nest with ... for the hard times ahead.


Next election. What's up app on your mobile and a dark coin cryptocurrency wallet. Sell your vote to the highest payer. At least then the screwing over is two ways.

if we want to grow cotton.....surely every idiot knows its needs water... a lot of water.....

maybe Penny Wong will explain the MDB plan...

she would have known about cotton and water wouldnt she?.. ::) ::)

Hemp is superior to Cotton. Less water required, less chemical, grows on more marginal land.

It's opposed so some can screw over the majority with more expensive and thirsty cotton.

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 8:26am:

if we want to grow cotton.....surely every idiot knows its needs water... a lot of water..... maybe Penny Wong will explain the MDB plan... she would have known about cotton and water wouldnt she?.. ::) ::)

Cods,
it's about theft of water.

These guys were bypassing the water meters & stealing enough
water to partially fill Sydney harbor.

It looks like they will go to jail now -
4 Corners has got them & even the politicans are involved.

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 8:25am:

Success is measured by the amount of currency one steals from others. Contributing is slavery. Why offer your talents when you are underpaid and under valued. We are in a period of global anarchy. Most people haven't realised this yet and so it's still great pickings available to rip off and feather your nest with ... for the hard times ahead. Next election. What's up app on your mobile and a dark coin cryptocurrency wallet. Sell your vote to the highest payer. At least then the screwing over is two ways.

contributing is how a "superior man" interacts with the world.
he operates with "no need for an outcome".
he draws his sense of satisfaction from within and he never relies on the environment to react to him to give him an outcome. this is how he learns to be non needy and non clingy.
This is how he goes from childhood to adulthood.

a woman can learn to contribute and give without the need for a payback by having a child and a man can do this with his children to some extent.

But a man still needs to be in contribution mode "all the time" if he wants to move up.

its fascinating that the greens are imploding now.
the system of being a taker and living in scarcity will always implode...it has no energy source to drive it.

to the superior man who just contributes for the joy of contributing, who just grinds it out because he is buzzed off of his own power....when such a man looks at the greens he sees children throwing tantrums, being all butt hurt, cowering in the corner, being very fearful and anxious and emotional...its like a small child who is scared of the dark.  if you want to break out of that, then you have to go through the fire , you have to do the hard yards, you have to take action.  thats why the greens attract people who are "stuck in their heads". they need to go have some kids and run some businesses and then they would have some real problems to deal with and they could stop "manufacturing problems"  ;)

Quote:

contributing is how a "superior man" interacts with the world.

Superior is relative. A slave who sings while picking cotton is superior to a slave quietly, planing his suicide.

All this money and poccessions these slaves have hoarded ... soon it will be worthless. When this occurs, will the slaves finally admit they were slaves?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:26am: if we want to grow cotton.....surely every idiot knows its needs water... a lot of water..... maybe Penny Wong will explain the MDB plan... she would have known about cotton and water wouldnt she?.. ::) ::) Cods, it's about theft of water. These guys were bypassing the water meters & stealing enough water to partially fill Sydney harbor. It looks like they will go to jail now - 4 Corners has got them & even the politicans are involved.

I agree bobby  what I am saying is..

who ever came up with the MDB plan   should have known  about the cotton farms..and how much water they would need......

we cant expect to have an industry like growing cotton.....if we are going to deprive them of water in the long run.. its pathetic....

no I dont agree with anyone stealing anything....but at the end of the day... what was their alternative?????????????????.....

when I see how we waste water   .. this doesnt surprise me..

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 8:48am:

Quote: contributing is how a "superior man" interacts with the world. Superior is relative. A slave who sings while picking cotton is superior to a slave quietly, planing his suicide. All this money and poccessions these slaves have hoarded ... soon it will be worthless. When this occurs, will the slaves finally admit they were slaves?

money and possessions ARE already worthless.
its not what you GET, its what you BECOME.

the absolute best thing about achieving material success is that it will train you on the fact that it does NOT bring you any happiness whatsoever.

the great myth of modern society is that "i'll be happy when i get my first million or when i win lotto".

But if your emotional state is telling you that you have to get that to be happy, then you are becoming acclimatised to a state of unhappiness and ingratitiude for what you already have and when you get there, the happiness will be momentary at best.

like that new car you buy, it makes you happy for a week or so , but if you dont train yourself to be grateful all the time and to draw happiness from within, you are screwed.

but you may have to go thru the paradigm to rise above the paradigm.

thats why when i see young dudes chasing women and $$$, i dont discourage them. they have to get that, go thru that, see it doesnt work and then they can become a true man in their prime...learn the joys of passion, creation and contribution.

but if you are a butt hurt complainer who thinks winning gold lotto will make you happy forever...you have not even got to their level yet and probably never will.

i feel genuinely sorry for you.  you are screwed  ;)

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 8:57am:

who ever came up with the MDB plan   should have known  about the cotton farms..and how much water they would need......

the farms have been allocated a set amount of water every year. It's up to them what they grow.
Farms taking what they need is the cause of the problem. 

aquascoot wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:08am:

____ wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:48am: Quote: contributing is how a "superior man" interacts with the world. Superior is relative. A slave who sings while picking cotton is superior to a slave quietly, planing his suicide. All this money and poccessions these slaves have hoarded ... soon it will be worthless. When this occurs, will the slaves finally admit they were slaves? money and possessions ARE already worthless. its not what you GET, its what you BECOME. the absolute best thing about achieving material success is that it will train you on the fact that it does NOT bring you any happiness whatsoever. the great myth of modern society is that "i'll be happy when i get my first million or when i win lotto". But if your emotional state is telling you that you have to get that to be happy, then you are becoming acclimatised to a state of unhappiness and ingratitiude for what you already have and when you get there, the happiness will be momentary at best. like that new car you buy, it makes you happy for a week or so , but if you dont train yourself to be grateful all the time and to draw happiness from within, you are screwed. but you may have to go thru the paradigm to rise above the paradigm. thats why when i see young dudes chasing women and $$$, i dont discourage them. they have to get that, go thru that, see it doesnt work and then they can become a true man in their prime...learn the joys of passion, creation and contribution. but if you are a butt hurt complainer who thinks winning gold lotto will make you happy forever...you have not even got to their level yet and probably never will. i feel genuinely sorry for you.  you are screwed  ;)

So you are after a soap box ... considering everything you have claimed is irrelevant, since it's non factual.

I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling!

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:16am:

I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling!

why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water?

it's ridiculous.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:24am:

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous.

Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes.

3D print your weapons now for the Water Wars coming.
Coal burning climate collapse will lower the water levels further.
Welcome to the new norm ... anarchy.



When people are ready, we must remove the weakest link : trust.
Blockchain water rights, so they can not be manipulated.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:35am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:24am: Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous. Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes.

nah ... we have the mechanical know how to pump water anywhere if we wanted to. The real reason is govt. is waiting for private enterprise to do it, private enterprise won't do it because there's not enough money in it for them. When water costs the same as gas, companies will be tripping over themselves to do it.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:40am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:24am: Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous. Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes. nah ... we have the mechanical know how to pump water anywhere if we wanted to. The real reason is govt. is waiting for private enterprise to do it, private enterprise won't do it because there's not enough money in it for them. When water costs the same as gas, companies will be tripping over themselves to do it.

Baby Boomer destruction ... when will they just die out !

Pumping water from A to B = inflexibility.
When monsoon patterns change and NT dries ... what then. Another baby boomer white elephant?

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:40am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:24am: Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous. Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes. nah ... we have the mechanical know how to pump water anywhere if we wanted to. The real reason is govt. is waiting for private enterprise to do it, private enterprise won't do it because there's not enough money in it for them. When water costs the same as gas, companies will be tripping over themselves to do it.

That water is going to be as expensive as beer by the time it has been pumped from one end of the country to the other.

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:46am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:40am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:24am: Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous. Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes. nah ... we have the mechanical know how to pump water anywhere if we wanted to. The real reason is govt. is waiting for private enterprise to do it, private enterprise won't do it because there's not enough money in it for them. When water costs the same as gas, companies will be tripping over themselves to do it. Baby Boomer destruction ... when will they just die out ! Pumping water from A to B = inflexibility. When monsoon patterns change and NT dries ... what then. Another baby boomer white elephant?

when the tropics stop being the tropics neither you nor I will be here to worry about it. :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:11am:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:57am: who ever came up with the MDB plan   should have known  about the cotton farms..and how much water they would need...... the farms have been allocated a set amount of water every year. It's up to them what they grow. Farms taking what they need is the cause of the problem.

they were growing cotton long before 2012....what do you wan t more Aussie industry going overseas?

this is something someone with a clue should have seen coming  thats what i am saying...

the first fleet brought cottonseed to OZ..

as you have said THE FARMS TAKING WHAT THEY NEED...

exactly....all I know is we have killed one industry after another.. >:( >:(

So you approve of theft, do you codsy?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:13am:

So you approve of theft, do you codsy?

no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all..

how do we expect them to do their job?.. :(

any ideas monk?...

you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(

  I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::)

You have to wonder just how corrupt or incompetent governments and their employees are...  this isn't a difficult problem.

Proper monitoring and regulation isn't rocket science.

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:16am:

I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling!

Frankly cotton growing in the MDB is idiocy of the highest order, just followed by the MIA and all the rice.

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::)

Dear Cods,
you need to watch the 4 Corners show.

There was massive environmental destruction down stream because of these thieves
who have lined their pockets with 10s of millions of dollars
from cotton money.

How come politicans & public servants were helping them out?

Were there any brown paper bags full of cash passed under tables?

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

they were growing cotton long before 2012....what do you wan t more Aussie industry going overseas?

and that is why we have a problem with the murray system. Cotton is the wrong crop for that area.
They're not going to move the farm overseas if they can't grow cotton Cods, they're going to plant something else.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:59am:

____ wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:46am: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:40am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:24am: Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous. Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes. nah ... we have the mechanical know how to pump water anywhere if we wanted to. The real reason is govt. is waiting for private enterprise to do it, private enterprise won't do it because there's not enough money in it for them. When water costs the same as gas, companies will be tripping over themselves to do it. Baby Boomer destruction ... when will they just die out ! Pumping water from A to B = inflexibility. When monsoon patterns change and NT dries ... what then. Another baby boomer white elephant? when the tropics stop being the tropics neither you nor I will be here to worry about it. :D :D :D

Babies being born today have the potential of 500 - 1000 year life spans due to medical advances in the pipeline.

You're wrong again.


The disaster your generation has created will be dumped on the next.

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:56am:

Babies being born today have the potential of 500 - 1000 year life spans due to medical advances in the pipeline.

and you have the potential to one day say something intelligent. Like the 1000 yr old babies , it hasn't happened yet, but the potential is there.

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::)

Sorry but to me it sounds like you think theft is alright. Bit of a rethink codsy.

I just need $10,000 to make my small business a reality, I know, I will hold up a bank!

Except these water THIEVES are depriving people further down the river and the environment. Theft is theft.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:17am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::) Sorry but to me it sounds like you think theft is alright. Bit of a rethink codsy. I just need $10,000 to make my small business a reality, I know, I will hold up a bank! Except these water THIEVES are depriving people further down the river and the environment. Theft is theft.

Latest news ABC -

Sarah Hanson-Young is bringing them before a Senate enquiry.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:23am:

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! Frankly cotton growing in the MDB is idiocy of the highest order, just followed by the MIA and all the rice.

No you are wrong just ask cods!

Let them take all they want and fargue all the people downstream, not to mention the wetlands drying up!

No go for it you cotton picking arseholes steal water not allocated to you and expand your cotton farms.

Well done cods love your attitude!  >:( >:( >:( >:(

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:31am:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:08am: they were growing cotton long before 2012....what do you wan t more Aussie industry going overseas? and that is why we have a problem with the murray system. Cotton is the wrong crop for that area. They're not going to move the farm overseas if they can't grow cotton Cods, they're going to plant something else.

Cattle and sheep?   8-)

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:31am: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:08am: they were growing cotton long before 2012....what do you wan t more Aussie industry going overseas? and that is why we have a problem with the murray system. Cotton is the wrong crop for that area. They're not going to move the farm overseas if they can't grow cotton Cods, they're going to plant something else. Cattle and sheep?   8-)

goats. Why does no one in Australia ever say goats?
it's the most popular meat in the world, but in Australia it almost doesn't exist. :D :D

Oh, I eat goat, feral goat. Delicious! Farmed goat literally stinks!

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:40pm:

Farmed goat literally stinks!

lamb stinks just as bad, yet it seems to be a favourite

Meat’s large water footprint: why raising livestock and poultry for meat is so resource-intensive

Surprise and disbelief. That’s what often follows when people learn about the large water footprint of many meat products.

Common responses include: “Really?” “That can’t be right.” “That’s ridiculous.”

Shock is reasonable after discovering that the global average water footprint – or the total amount of water needed – to produce one pound of beef is 1,799 gallons of water; one pound of pork takes 576 gallons of water. As a comparison, the water footprint of soybeans is 216 gallons; corn is 108 gallons. (Compare more products here [US standard] and here [metric].)

The large water footprints for beef, pork and other meats indicate the large volumes of water used for their production. They also suggest a great use of resources beyond water. The question then becomes, why is raising livestock and poultry for meat so resource-intensive?

The answer is mainly based on the food that livestock eat. Here, the water footprint concept can provide some insight. What the water footprint reveals is the magnitude of water “hidden” in meat as a tally of all the water consumed at the various steps during production. Better understanding meat’s resource intensity necessitates a closer look at two crucial factors.

The first has to do with an animal’s efficiency to turn its food into body mass known as feed conversion ratios (FCR) (i.e., identical units of feed to meat, so feed: meat). The range of FCRs is based on the type of animal, and according to Dr. Robert Lawrence of Johns Hopkins University, the ratios are approximately 7:1 for beef, 5:1 for pork and 2.5:1 for poultry. The larger the animal, the larger the percentage of that animal’s body mass is inedible material like bone, skin and tissue. This is why beef conversion ratios are the highest and it takes exponentially less water and energy inputs to produce grains, beans and vegetables than meat. To be clear, raising a beef cow takes more resources because a typical beef cow in the US eats thousands of pounds of the above-listed corn and soybeans during its lifetime. Of course, the cultivation of field crops that are eventually fed to beef cattle require huge amounts of water, fertilizers, fuel to power farm machinery, land for farm fields and so forth. It all adds up.

The second reason for meat production’s great resource intensity is due to its immense scale. Globally, there is a projected “food animal” population of over 20 billion, more than twice that of the current seven billion humans the planet carries, with the animal count expected to rise along with human population growth. The animal production system expanding rapidly around the world is the industrialized concentrated animal feeding operation (CAFOs) model, the so-called “conventional” (and extremely problematic)  American system developed in over the last 50 years or so. CAFOs are more efficient strictly in terms of more animals produced, faster animal growth and shorter meat-to-market times because huge numbers of animals are combined into one facility where they are fed grains (and growth promoters) before being butchered. The enormous quantity of feed given to large populations of livestock, poultry and even fish – consisting primarily of corn, soy and other grains – can also exact a heavy toll in terms of resources and external pollution because of the industrial production of these crops. So even though there are perceived economic efficiency gains due to scales of production, the sheer size of these operations – including industrially produced crops and their overreliance on fossil fuels and fertilizers – swamps those gains entirely in terms of real, absolute resource-use and pollution

That’s why revealing the virtual water hidden in meat and explaining its resource-intensity matters; acknowledging the potential problems and limits can lay the groundwork for sensible, sustainable ways forward.

Rather than represent meat production in the abstract, this post brings forward the reality that meat eaten by many people every day has a concrete effect on resource use. Not only is meat resource-intensive, but the system of production, as in the CAFO model, also carries substantial environmental and human health problems rarely accounted for in the race to meet meat demand. Why does this matter? Because as the world gets smaller, owing to population growth, higher incomes and wider adoption of technology, there is a greater strain on resources—a process in which meat is implicated.

In the end, people need to eat regardless of resource availability. Considering that meat does eat up vast amounts of resources, it seems that using it wisely (already crucial) will become even more so in the future. That’s why revealing the virtual water hidden in meat and explaining its resource-intensity matters; acknowledging the potential problems and limits can lay the groundwork for sensible, sustainable ways forward. It also suggests that as feeding the world is a primary objective, humanity might be wise to alter our current trajectory of evermore meat produced industrially at any cost.


https://foodtank.com/news/2013/12/why-meat-eats-resources/

Bah, vegetarian seeking attention again!

Where are most beef cattle grown? On broadscale pasture.

Meat is delicious. You have just one short life, don’t deprive yourself of pleasure, like a well cooked steak or stew or pie!

Veges probably take more water to grow.

how much water does it take to grow tofu? :D

Just stating the facts, Monk.

Make of it what you will.

If you don’t state that most of that water is rainfall then you are lying by omission.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:56pm:

how much water does it take to grow tofu? :D

Considerably less. Did you read the article ... it's all in there.

Eat meat, don't eat meat .. but if you want to conserve the MDB, don't suggest running livestock is all.

mothra wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 12:56pm: how much water does it take to grow tofu? :D Considerably less. Did you read the article ... it's all in there. Eat meat, don't eat meat .. but if you want to conserve the MDB, don't suggest running livestock is all.

TBH, the livestock arent the big water users on the MDB.

mothra wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 12:56pm: how much water does it take to grow tofu? :D Considerably less. Did you read the article ... it's all in there. Eat meat, don't eat meat .. but if you want to conserve the MDB, don't suggest running livestock is all.

lets kill all the cows.

(i didn't suggest putting cattle along the MDB)

I eat feral meat or grassfed beef from the Adelaide Hills.

Your article was dishonest. How much water does it take to grow corn? Heaps and none of it can come from rainfall.

What does livestock eat in feedlots before slaughter, Monk?

mothra wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:01pm:

What does livestock eat in feedlots before slaughter, Monk?

a bullet?

Grain. One reason I don’t eat feedlot cattle.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:03pm:

Grain. One reason I don’t eat feedlot cattle.

Nor pigs, sheep or chickens i suppose.

Go you green carnivore.

Now if you could just plug up their arses.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:03pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 1:01pm: What does livestock eat in feedlots before slaughter, Monk? a bullet?

before
bɪˈfɔː/Submit
preposition, conjunction, & adverb
1.
during the period of time preceding (a particular event or time).
"she had to rest before dinner"
synonyms:      prior to, previous to, earlier than, preparatory to, in preparation for, preliminary to, in anticipation of, in expectation of; More
2.
in front of.
"Matilda stood before her, panting"
synonyms:      ahead, in front, in advance, in the lead
"a small party went on before"

Yeah, or all the chemicals and diesel used to grow veges.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 11:13am:

____ wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:56am: Babies being born today have the potential of 500 - 1000 year life spans due to medical advances in the pipeline. and you have the potential to one day say something intelligent. Like the 1000 yr old babies , it hasn't happened yet, but the potential is there.

Unfortunate, all the intelligent stuff said is beyond your comprehension.

mothra wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 1:03pm: mothra wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 1:01pm: What does livestock eat in feedlots before slaughter, Monk? a bullet? before bɪˈfɔː/Submit preposition, conjunction, & adverb 1. during the period of time preceding (a particular event or time). "she had to rest before dinner" synonyms:      prior to, previous to, earlier than, preparatory to, in preparation for, preliminary to, in anticipation of, in expectation of; More 2. in front of. "Matilda stood before her, panting" synonyms:      ahead, in front, in advance, in the lead "a small party went on before"

I know what before means, I was just getting hungry and didn't want to wait for my steak

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 11:13am: ____ wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:56am: Babies being born today have the potential of 500 - 1000 year life spans due to medical advances in the pipeline. and you have the potential to one day say something intelligent. Like the 1000 yr old babies , it hasn't happened yet, but the potential is there. Unfortunate, all the intelligent stuff said is beyond your comprehension.

looks like today isn't going to be that day either. ... but the potential is still there. :D :D

you realise I'm not the only person to read this board, right?

Then there was the cow in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. Shot itself.

Your attention is required in another thread ...


link

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:03pm:

Grain. One reason I don’t eat feedlot cattle.

my boys have a much better life then feedlot cattle i

---

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:29am:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:17am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::) Dear Cods, you need to watch the 4 Corners show. There was massive environmental destruction down stream because of these thieves who have lined their pockets with 10s of millions of dollars from cotton money. How come politicans & public servants were helping them out? Were there any brown paper bags full of cash passed under tables?

bobs what did they expect??? thats what I am saying the MDB plan has always always been controversial...right from the start......they cut back water rights to everyone....the last I heard the MDB was doing really well....thanks to floods I guess....

water shouldnt be for SALE>. its everyones rights  we all die without water....yet some faceless people decide what we will pay and now how much we will get... how would you feel  bobby if the govt cuts your water ration down to maybe a cup a day??>...do you think you may be driven to stealing it as well??????

I do not condone the theft of anything bobby   but I am saying this would have had to stick out like a bulls bum...to someone who had any dealings at all with farming in this country..

and it smacks to me    that it was planned by city people with no idea at all.. >:(

I keep saying it
But no one believes me

Every single politician, lobbyist, and senior public servant is corrupt and criminal
And quite a few of the lower public servants as well

There are criminals and public servants
The only difference is some have been caught and the rest, not yet

I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling!

Heliothis destroyed the early attempts at growing cotton on the Ord

You may not like the next step, but its reality

http://www.abc.net.au/site-archive/rural/content/2011/s3197160.htm

miketrees wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:21pm:

I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! Heliothis destroyed the early attempts at growing cotton on the Ord You may not like the next step, but its reality http://www.abc.net.au/site-archive/rural/content/2011/s3197160.htm

well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??....

is that called stealing industry from NSW by any chance?..

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:24pm:

well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??....

where did mining go?

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:39pm:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:24pm: well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??.... where did mining go?

oh you havent heard    our customers are now shopping elsewhere..and WA is feeling the pinch.

The mines are still there, its just the construction phase has crashed.

The Ord will not steal much from anyone the way things are.

The main crop in the ord is Indian  Sandalwood and the biggest grower is  just hanging on by a thread.

Kununurra would have to become a Chinese province run from China for agriculture to work there, it would need to ship straight to China

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:39pm: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:24pm: well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??.... where did mining go? oh you havent heard    our customers are now shopping elsewhere..and WA is feeling the pinch.

the customers hadn't gone anywhere.

China owns quite a few mines in WA, they are not going anywhere

Valkie wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

I keep saying it But no one believes me Every single politician, lobbyist, and senior public servant is corrupt and criminal And quite a few of the lower public servants as well There are criminals and public servants The only difference is some have been caught and the rest, not yet

Even Cods doesn't believe you -

I believe you - we're run by a pack of useless bloodsucking parasites who
line their pockets with our money -
by fair means & foul.

This is a country full of crooks.

I hope Sarah-Hanson Young nails them to a cross in the senate enquiry.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 6:01pm:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:42pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:39pm: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:24pm: well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??.... where did mining go? oh you havent heard    our customers are now shopping elsewhere..and WA is feeling the pinch. the customers hadn't gone anywhere.

China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall...

miketrees wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

The mines are still there, its just the construction phase has crashed. The Ord will not steal much from anyone the way things are. The main crop in the ord is Indian  Sandalwood and the biggest grower is  just hanging on by a thread. Kununurra would have to become a Chinese province run from China for agriculture to work there, it would need to ship straight to China

Austrochine?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 6:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:01pm: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:42pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:39pm: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:24pm: well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??.... where did mining go? oh you havent heard    our customers are now shopping elsewhere..and WA is feeling the pinch. the customers hadn't gone anywhere. China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall...

I know .... crash the market, then buy cheap. ::)

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:29am: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:17am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::) Dear Cods, you need to watch the 4 Corners show. There was massive environmental destruction down stream because of these thieves who have lined their pockets with 10s of millions of dollars from cotton money. How come politicans & public servants were helping them out? Were there any brown paper bags full of cash passed under tables? bobs what did they expect??? thats what I am saying the MDB plan has always always been controversial...right from the start......they cut back water rights to everyone....the last I heard the MDB was doing really well....thanks to floods I guess.... water shouldnt be for SALE>. its everyones rights  we all die without water....yet some faceless people decide what we will pay and now how much we will get... how would you feel  bobby if the govt cuts your water ration down to maybe a cup a day??>...do you think you may be driven to stealing it as well?????? I do not condone the theft of anything bobby   but I am saying this would have had to stick out like a bulls bum...to someone who had any dealings at all with farming in this country.. and it smacks to me    that it was planned by city people with no idea at all.. >:(

Cods,
The Govt. has allowed & promoted thieves stealing water.

A cup of water cannot be compared to an amount the size of Sydney harbor &
then destroying the environment as well just
to get rich at the cost of everything else.

How greedy can anyone be?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 7:23pm:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:15pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:29am: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:17am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::) Dear Cods, you need to watch the 4 Corners show. There was massive environmental destruction down stream because of these thieves who have lined their pockets with 10s of millions of dollars from cotton money. How come politicans & public servants were helping them out? Were there any brown paper bags full of cash passed under tables? bobs what did they expect??? thats what I am saying the MDB plan has always always been controversial...right from the start......they cut back water rights to everyone....the last I heard the MDB was doing really well....thanks to floods I guess.... water shouldnt be for SALE>. its everyones rights  we all die without water....yet some faceless people decide what we will pay and now how much we will get... how would you feel  bobby if the govt cuts your water ration down to maybe a cup a day??>...do you think you may be driven to stealing it as well?????? I do not condone the theft of anything bobby   but I am saying this would have had to stick out like a bulls bum...to someone who had any dealings at all with farming in this country.. and it smacks to me    that it was planned by city people with no idea at all.. >:( Cods, The Govt. has allowed & promoted thieves stealing water. A cup of water cannot be compared to an amount the size of Sydney harbor & then destroying the environment as well just to get rich at the cost of everything else. How greedy can anyone be?

must be a liberal voter. that's the sort of thing they would do in the name of printed dollar bills  :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 7:32pm:

must be a liberal voter. that's the sort of thing they would do in the name of printed dollar bills  :(

The captain of the ship should resign:

Gladys Berejiklian
Member of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly
Gladys Berejiklian is the 45th Premier of New South Wales and the Leader of the New South Wales Liberal Party, offices which she assumed on 23 January 2017 following the resignation of Mike Baird.


http://www.fairfaxstatic.com.au/content/dam/images/g/t/u/g/i/e/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gtupo3.png/1484968464430.jpg

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:56am:

The disaster your generation has created will be dumped on the next.

That's a little bigoted isn't it? Blaming a whole generation? Bit like blaming all poofs for AIDS or all muslims for ISIS.

must be a liberal voter. that's the sort of thing they would do in the name of printed dollar bills



Someone has to pay the bludgers in society.

Its usually the working people, usually Libs

I used to live in the Riverina.
I can only say that the 'Irrigation' set-up and network is absolutely astounding, impressive and very effective.
Even in a flood, thanks to the 'canals', the water always has somewhere to run and move to ...unlike floods everywhere else that just sit there like a dirty duck-pond.
It is an amazing place of Farming excellence. So much so, that besides so much 'Food Production' work out there - the place is a scenic beauty with all the Rural efforts.
The CSIRO had put forth the idea of $10 billion to reproduce another version of the Riverina in Diamantina/Gulf of Carpentaria area up north in QLD/NT.

Now, as for the Murray/Darling river systems having their water 'pilfered' by anyone and everyone for whatever reason? Well, for starters - you will have Farmers using water to meet their quotas, even if they don't actually 'need' that amount. Because, if they don't - their quota will be less the following year.

When in South Australia - yes, you would be well advised not to mention the 'water issue'  :o It's a very very sore issue and you are just asking for trouble if you don't watch your delivery. Just coming from NSW or QLD in that discussion will have you 'shirt-fronted' in a second  >:(. I kid you not!

Long ago - the 'Water' issue, nearly erupted in 'WAR', regarding some of the 'water Barons' as they were known.
Water is far far more valuable than GOLD! People will get violent over the issue. What you saw on TV/Media is nothing, absolutely nothing!

My only view on the matter is that SOUTH AUSTRALIA will never get the 'justice' on this. They will continue to just get the ...trickle on effect. No way will the Government (regardless of Party) have the Power (enforcement) to stop what is going on.

South Australia is best to just seek an 'alternative route' to the problem.
My advice has always been (right from one of my first topics on this Forum many years ago) - that South Australia, in partnership with the NT, should build their own 'CANAL SYSTEM' running from the areas of the NT that are heavily monsoonal and flood prone - to drain down into South Australia more effectively than what either the Murray or Darling rivers can provide.
The benefit will be to both the NT and SA directly.

Other than that - SA really does need to plant a lot of trees to attract more rainfall. I can say this easy - because the State is almost barren of 'proper Trees' but for a few small spots. ::)

Hi JaSinner,
I remember turning on the tap in Adelaide & brown water coming out - yuck.

miketrees wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

must be a liberal voter. that's the sort of thing they would do in the name of printed dollar bills Someone has to pay the bludgers in society. Its usually the working people, usually Libs

Nonsense - the 50-odd percent of floating voters who kick governments out can't all be non-working people.  Most are the opposite, and have the sense to see what a government is doing for them and the nation.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 7:04pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:58pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:01pm: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:42pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:39pm: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 5:24pm: well they have got to do something now mining has gone out the window mike??.... where did mining go? oh you havent heard    our customers are now shopping elsewhere..and WA is feeling the pinch. the customers hadn't gone anywhere. China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall... I know .... crash the market, then buy cheap. ::)

Now they get to set the price, which, at last report I saw, was below the cost of production.... welcome to the Banana Republic of Austrochine... a subsidiary of China Inc.... and soon to be a happy vassal state....

For those who missed the 4 corners show:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/07/24/4705065.htm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

For those who missed the 4 corners show: http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/07/24/4705065.htm

Jump to 43:20 & have a look at the environmental destruction.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 6:58pm:

China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall...

Strange you mention stockpiling.

Interesting from the 4 Corners show was the fact these water stealers are stockpiling water and then on selling it downstream to other farmers on the Murray Darling.

Apparently at times they are making more out of selling the water they have largely stolen than bothering with growing cotton.

Another name that was interesting to hear as an owner of one of these massive farms with large water storage filled from the MD was Chris Corrigan of the Patrick Stevedores wharfies strikes fame.(1998)

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 26^th, 2017 at 9:18am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:58pm: China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall... Strange you mention stockpiling. Interesting from the 4 Corners show was the fact these water stealers are stockpiling water and then on selling it downstream to other farmers on the Murray Darling. Apparently at times they are making more out of selling the water they have largely stolen than bothering with growing cotton. Another name that was interesting to hear as an owner of one of these massive farms with large water storage filled from the MD was Chris Corrigan of the Patrick Stevedores wharfies strikes fame.(1998)

I  hope Sarah Hanson-Young asks them hard questions in the senate.

They deserve jail.

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 26^th, 2017 at 9:18am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:58pm: China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall... Strange you mention stockpiling. Interesting from the 4 Corners show was the fact these water stealers are stockpiling water and then on selling it downstream to other farmers on the Murray Darling. Apparently at times they are making more out of selling the water they have largely stolen than bothering with growing cotton. Another name that was interesting to hear as an owner of one of these massive farms with large water storage filled from the MD was Chris Corrigan of the Patrick Stevedores wharfies strikes fame.(1998)

;D

Bloody Wharfies! They eat Bikers (Bickies) with their cups of tea.

When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26^th, 2017 at 6:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 11:51pm: For those who missed the 4 corners show: http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/07/24/4705065.htm Jump to 43:20 & have a look at the environmental destruction.

Transcript.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/07/24/4705065.htm

LINTON BESSER: The dying river redgums of the Macquarie Marshes were a wake-up call prompting one of the biggest economic reforms in the country's history - The Murray-Darling Basin plan.

Now after five years and billions of taxpayer dollars there are real questions about whether Australia's fragile inland ecosystem has been saved.

RICHARD KINGSFORD: Look, we all hoped because of the state of the Murray-Darling basin that the basin plan would essentially take this patient, which was essentially in the intensive care unit, out of the intensive care unit and be able to make it walk again but essentially the basin plan is not working the way it was meant to work.

The whole idea of water for the environment was that water would come down these river systems and make its way right down to the end.

You know, it would be there for Aboriginal kids to play in at Wilcannia.

It would be there for the environment down at Menindee lakes.

And we don't know where that water's going? and we don't know what's happening to that water?

It just seems bizarre, and particularly when there are so many major players that are potentially exploiting the system.

LINTON BESSER: The Murray-Darling Basin Plan may not yet have saved the river, but it's made a fortune for the lucky few.

MAL PETERS: There is no question, in my mind, that the majority of Australians supported the expenditure of a huge amount of money, 13 billion dollars, billion dollars, to fix the river.

If the outcome of it is, that we have a very few number of irrigators that have got a huge windfall out of this, I think everybody will be disgusted.

PHILLIP O'CONNOR: Well, it's just whether the people care, Linton, whether they care about the river.

____ wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 9:46am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:40am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:24am: Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:16am: I would have thought the far north of Australia that has a big wet season would be where you would grow cotton not in the dry areas along the Murray Darling! why can we pipe gas around the country, but not water? it's ridiculous. Because gas is a ..... well gas and easy to move around, where as water  is not, at least not through long pipes. nah ... we have the mechanical know how to pump water anywhere if we wanted to. The real reason is govt. is waiting for private enterprise to do it, private enterprise won't do it because there's not enough money in it for them. When water costs the same as gas, companies will be tripping over themselves to do it. Baby Boomer destruction ... when will they just die out ! Pumping water from A to B = inflexibility. When monsoon patterns change and NT dries ... what then. Another baby boomer white elephant?

You have an unhealthy obsession with blaming Baby Boomers for everything.

Do you have an issue with your parents ... I'll bet they were/are Baby Boomers.

Without them you wouldn't be here.

You ungrateful snot.

cods wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::)

What's with you & your anti QLD bent Cods?

You do realise that central & western NSW have been in drought for just as long as any ..... droughts are usually occurring from the nth to sth across states in western areas.

And yes there are properties in QLD milking & probably pinching more water than they should from the MD system ........ Cubbie Station is one of the biggest ....in a good year it can store as much as Sydney Harbour. 500,000 megalitres.

This one station with a licence of 460,000 megalitres is equivalent to all the NSW licenced irrigators down stream in the MD combined.


Quote:

The station was created by amalgamating twelve floodplain properties to give Cubbie a total of fifty-one licences.[3] The station's water storage dams stretch for more than 28 kilometres (17 mi) along the Culgoa River, within the Murray-Darling basin. In an average year the station uses 200,000 megalitres (7,100×106 cu ft) of water, in a good year as much as 500,000 megalitres (18,000×106 cu ft). The water is used to supply 130 square kilometres (50 sq mi) of irrigated cotton and other crops including wheat, which generates a net profit in the range of A$50 million to A$80 million a year.[4][5] The station is licensed to take 460,000 megalitres (16,000×106 cu ft),[3] the equivalent of all irrigation entitlements downstream in north-western NSW.[3] The property has the capacity to grow 200 square kilometres (77 sq mi) of cotton. In 2006, the dams on the property were filled to 1% capacity allowing for only 200 hectares (490 acres) of cotton planting.[6] The station is often derided for its large water usage requirements in a time of extreme drought in Australia and damage to the Murray Darling river system[7] During his term as Minister for the Environment, Malcolm Turnbull did not rule out its possible acquisition by the Australian government.[8][9]

We should not be growing cotton in marginal channel country in Australia ... it's the most water & pesticide reliant crop that can be grown.

It is destroying the MDB river system.

John Smith wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:34pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 12:29pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:31am: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:08am: they were growing cotton long before 2012....what do you wan t more Aussie industry going overseas? and that is why we have a problem with the murray system. Cotton is the wrong crop for that area. They're not going to move the farm overseas if they can't grow cotton Cods, they're going to plant something else. Cattle and sheep?   8-) goats. Why does no one in Australia ever say goats? it's the most popular meat in the world, but in Australia it almost doesn't exist. :D :D

Well yeah they do ... many western stations are harvesting their goats now as a supplemental income. It's been happening for a long time.

First off back in the 80's & 90's they were introducing CASHMERE Billies to the feral herds & rounding them up & shearing them.

Now & for some years they have introduced Boer Goat Billies to make them a meat export product.  :)

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2017 at 10:43am:

Now & for some years they have introduced Boer Goat Billies to make them a meat export product.

it makes sense to me. Like I said, most popular meat in the world. That's one hell of a market for goats.

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2017 at 10:35am:

cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:17am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:13am: So you approve of theft, do you codsy? no pet.. just UNDERSTAND IT    thats all.. how do we expect them to do their job?.. :( any ideas monk?... you know as well as I do  we waste so much water in the country  >:(   I am waiting for Qld to announce the drought   and whine for more money.. ::) ::) What's with you & your anti QLD bent Cods? You do realise that central & western NSW have been in drought for just as long as any ..... droughts are usually occurring from the nth to sth across states in western areas. And yes there are properties in QLD milking & probably pinching more water than they should from the MD system ........ Cubbie Station is one of the biggest ....in a good year it can store as much as Sydney Harbour. 500,000 megalitres. This one station with a licence of 460,000 megalitres is equivalent to all the NSW licenced irrigators down stream in the MD combined. Quote: The station was created by amalgamating twelve floodplain properties to give Cubbie a total of fifty-one licences.[3] The station's water storage dams stretch for more than 28 kilometres (17 mi) along the Culgoa River, within the Murray-Darling basin. In an average year the station uses 200,000 megalitres (7,100×106 cu ft) of water, in a good year as much as 500,000 megalitres (18,000×106 cu ft). The water is used to supply 130 square kilometres (50 sq mi) of irrigated cotton and other crops including wheat, which generates a net profit in the range of A$50 million to A$80 million a year.[4][5] The station is licensed to take 460,000 megalitres (16,000×106 cu ft),[3] the equivalent of all irrigation entitlements downstream in north-western NSW.[3] The property has the capacity to grow 200 square kilometres (77 sq mi) of cotton. In 2006, the dams on the property were filled to 1% capacity allowing for only 200 hectares (490 acres) of cotton planting.[6] The station is often derided for its large water usage requirements in a time of extreme drought in Australia and damage to the Murray Darling river system[7] During his term as Minister for the Environment, Malcolm Turnbull did not rule out its possible acquisition by the Australian government.[8][9] We should not be growing cotton in marginal channel country in Australia ... it's the most water & pesticide reliant crop that can be grown. It is destroying the MDB river system.

It's criminal.

mothra wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 12:56pm: how much water does it take to grow tofu? :D Considerably less. Did you read the article ... it's all in there. Eat meat, don't eat meat .. but if you want to conserve the MDB, don't suggest running livestock is all.

Livestock is a far better & sustainable option in the MDB than water & pesticide reliant cotton.

The fact that cotton growing in marginal dry land areas
has now caused this massive lack of & theft of water has massively compounded the issue.

It has become like the old West in the US .... he with the water rights is God/King. And starving others out is not a problem.

Ever seen the movie "The Big Country"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Country

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 1:00pm:

I eat feral meat or grassfed beef from the Adelaide Hills. Your article was dishonest. How much water does it take to grow corn? Heaps and none of it can come from rainfall.

Rubbish ..... most of the corn grown in Australia is grown dryland without irrigation.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 7:39pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 7:32pm: must be a liberal voter. that's the sort of thing they would do in the name of printed dollar bills  :( The captain of the ship should resign: Gladys Berejiklian Member of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Gladys Berejiklian is the 45th Premier of New South Wales and the Leader of the New South Wales Liberal Party, offices which she assumed on 23 January 2017 following the resignation of Mike Baird. http://www.fairfaxstatic.com.au/content/dam/images/g/t/u/g/i/e/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gtupo3.png/1484968464430.jpg

I wouldn't mind that nose full of second hand furniture ...

I could retire comfortably. ;D

Jasin wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:43pm:

I used to live in the Riverina. I can only say that the 'Irrigation' set-up and network is absolutely astounding, impressive and very effective. Even in a flood, thanks to the 'canals', the water always has somewhere to run and move to ...unlike floods everywhere else that just sit there like a dirty duck-pond. It is an amazing place of Farming excellence. So much so, that besides so much 'Food Production' work out there - the place is a scenic beauty with all the Rural efforts. The CSIRO had put forth the idea of $10 billion to reproduce another version of the Riverina in Diamantina/Gulf of Carpentaria area up north in QLD/NT. Now, as for the Murray/Darling river systems having their water 'pilfered' by anyone and everyone for whatever reason? Well, for starters - you will have Farmers using water to meet their quotas, even if they don't actually 'need' that amount. Because, if they don't - their quota will be less the following year. When in South Australia - yes, you would be well advised not to mention the 'water issue'  :o It's a very very sore issue and you are just asking for trouble if you don't watch your delivery. Just coming from NSW or QLD in that discussion will have you 'shirt-fronted' in a second  >:(. I kid you not! Long ago - the 'Water' issue, nearly erupted in 'WAR', regarding some of the 'water Barons' as they were known. Water is far far more valuable than GOLD! People will get violent over the issue. What you saw on TV/Media is nothing, absolutely nothing! My only view on the matter is that SOUTH AUSTRALIA will never get the 'justice' on this. They will continue to just get the ...trickle on effect. No way will the Government (regardless of Party) have the Power (enforcement) to stop what is going on. South Australia is best to just seek an 'alternative route' to the problem. My advice has always been (right from one of my first topics on this Forum many years ago) - that South Australia, in partnership with the NT, should build their own 'CANAL SYSTEM' running from the areas of the NT that are heavily monsoonal and flood prone - to drain down into South Australia more effectively than what either the Murray or Darling rivers can provide. The benefit will be to both the NT and SA directly. Other than that - SA really does need to plant a lot of trees to attract more rainfall. I can say this easy - because the State is almost barren of 'proper Trees' but for a few small spots. ::)

The Murrumbidgee  & lower MD Irrigation Scheme ... especially when used as flood irrigation on marginal country has caused massive problems with altering natural water tables & salinity destruction of farm land.

So it's not all beer & skittles in that area either.

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 26^th, 2017 at 9:18am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:58pm: China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall... Strange you mention stockpiling. Interesting from the 4 Corners show was the fact these water stealers are stockpiling water and then on selling it downstream to other farmers on the Murray Darling. Apparently at times they are making more out of selling the water they have largely stolen than bothering with growing cotton. Another name that was interesting to hear as an owner of one of these massive farms with large water storage filled from the MD was Chris Corrigan of the Patrick Stevedores wharfies strikes fame.(1998)

Yeah funny that ...... a real Lieberal Party Union bashing hero.

Being involved in water theft?  ;D

And those properties found to be selling water(& stolen water) instead of growing crops should lose their license/ allocation & be prosecuted.

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2017 at 10:43am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 12:34pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 12:29pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:31am: cods wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:08am: they were growing cotton long before 2012....what do you wan t more Aussie industry going overseas? and that is why we have a problem with the murray system. Cotton is the wrong crop for that area. They're not going to move the farm overseas if they can't grow cotton Cods, they're going to plant something else. Cattle and sheep?   8-) goats. Why does no one in Australia ever say goats? it's the most popular meat in the world, but in Australia it almost doesn't exist. :D :D Well yeah they do ... many western stations are harvesting their goats now as a supplemental income. It's been happening for a long time. First off back in the 80's & 90's they were introducing CASHMERE Billies to the feral herds & rounding them up & shearing them. Now & for some years they have introduced Boer Goat Billies to make them a meat export product.  :)

I aint eating nuffink that some dirty muzzo has been porking.

Goats are only good for targets.

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 26th, 2017 at 9:18am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:58pm: China stockpiled mountains of ore so as to gain control of the market and dictate lower prices overall... Strange you mention stockpiling. Interesting from the 4 Corners show was the fact these water stealers are stockpiling water and then on selling it downstream to other farmers on the Murray Darling. Apparently at times they are making more out of selling the water they have largely stolen than bothering with growing cotton. Another name that was interesting to hear as an owner of one of these massive farms with large water storage filled from the MD was Chris Corrigan of the Patrick Stevedores wharfies strikes fame.(1998) Yeah funny that ...... a real Lieberal Party Union bashing hero. Being involved in water theft?  ;D And those properties found to be selling water(& stolen water) instead of growing crops should lose their license/ allocation & be prosecuted.

How come the police haven't already arrested them?

Their crimes were clearly shown, with evidence on Monday night.

miketrees wrote on Jul 26^th, 2017 at 12:13pm:

When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food.

X 1000

Hate all these ABC do gooders types thinking their opinion count. If u dont have skin in the game shut the eff up.

Rider wrote on Jul 30^th, 2017 at 10:10am:

miketrees wrote on Jul 26th, 2017 at 12:13pm: When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food. X 1000 Hate all these ABC do gooders types thinking their opinion count. If u dont have skin in the game shut the eff up.

I want to see the thieves arrested.

Rider wrote on Jul 30^th, 2017 at 10:10am:

miketrees wrote on Jul 26th, 2017 at 12:13pm: When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food. X 1000 Hate all these ABC do gooders types thinking their opinion count. If u dont have skin in the game shut the eff up.

Ask the farmers downstream whether they agree with you bloody morrons that it is OK for a few very large farmers upstream to steal part of their share!!!

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2017 at 10:32am:

Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2017 at 10:10am: miketrees wrote on Jul 26th, 2017 at 12:13pm: When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food. X 1000 Hate all these ABC do gooders types thinking their opinion count. If u dont have skin in the game shut the eff up. I want to see the thieves arrested.

Well u had better pin a badge on and get to it, alternatively mind your own bees wax.

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 30^th, 2017 at 11:02am:

Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2017 at 10:10am: miketrees wrote on Jul 26th, 2017 at 12:13pm: When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food. X 1000 Hate all these ABC do gooders types thinking their opinion count. If u dont have skin in the game shut the eff up. Ask the farmers downstream whether they agree with you bloody morrons that it is OK for a few very large farmers upstream to steal part of their share!!!

Just never enough victims is there? Go cry a river.

Rider wrote on Jul 30^th, 2017 at 6:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30th, 2017 at 10:32am: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2017 at 10:10am: miketrees wrote on Jul 26th, 2017 at 12:13pm: When you city scum get hungry enough, you will be begging the farmers to use the water and grow food. X 1000 Hate all these ABC do gooders types thinking their opinion count. If u dont have skin in the game shut the eff up. I want to see the thieves arrested. Well u had better pin a badge on and get to it, alternatively mind your own bees wax.

Tell me why they haven't been arrested?

4 Corners gave out names & had video evidence.

The court case is served up on a plate.

It appears from reports that the big issue is the 'wink-wink' from a State minister...

Downe at Ye Olde Water Deriver's Meeting:-

"Nah then, lads - yez are all on notice!  There's new rules coming in an' ya can't OFFICIALLY use that water unregulated.... sometimes that means your full allotment can't be used in the current crisis.....

Now I'm jest tellin' yez and I've done me job - what yez do on yer own time is yer own business... clear?"

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 30^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

It appears from reports that the big issue is the 'wink-wink' from a State minister... Downe at Ye Olde Water Deriver's Meeting:- "Nah then, lads - yez are all on notice!  There's new rules coming in an' ya can't OFFICIALLY use that water unregulated.... sometimes that means your full allotment can't be used in the current crisis..... Now I'm jest tellin' yez and I've done me job - what yez do on yer own time is yer own business... clear?"

Ordinary people get arrested every day -

yet these crooks are immune.