5 Badass Muslim Women Who Have Led Feminist Movements Around the World

I once was at the United Nations for a conference when one of the white attendees got up and declared that she was organizing a conference on abuse against Muslim and Arab women (they’re not the same thing, but who cares?).

She went on and on about how there is no platform for them to talk about the violence they experience — she felt it is was important that she organize something around it.

After the event, I made my way to her. I introduced myself and told her I was interested in learning about the conference and the speakers she has lined up.

I asked her if she had reached out to any women-run organizations in the Middle East or the Muslim world. Her answer was simple: “No, I’m not aware of any. I don’t think they’re mobilized enough.”

I wish I was speechless but, when you grow up watching TV and seeing people who don’t look like you constantly speaking about your experiences, it becomes the norm.

I casually threw some names out to her but she didn’t bother to write them down. I didn’t bother to follow up with her.

This was never meant for us, and we didn’t need her conference to uplift our voices (or the voices of those who don’t look like us but still speak for us).

This conversation led me to delving deeper into the women who mobilize everyday to create change in their communities. The ones who sometimes go unrecognized by Western feminists because they do not fit the oppressed weak image of a Muslim woman.

So now, let me share with you women who were amazing at leading movements, mobilized, and led change in their spaces.

I share this with you to extend to you an invitation into the worlds in which we already operate in. they have existed for centuries, working tirelessly, to find justice in the most courageous of ways.

1. Hind Makki

What started as a personal frustration at the limited spaces for women to pray at mosques, Hind Makki started a Tumblr and Facebook page documenting the differences spaces provided for women in mosques across the world.

This conversation has been happening for years, where Muslim women were growing frustrated at how tiny, unclean, and inaccessible the rooms and spaces provided for women mosque-goers are. 

Her idea was to show the disparity between sections and sometimes, the beauty of some spaces who get it right. This project receives hundreds of submissions from around the world of women sending in their mosque experiences.

Hind started the project in 2012 after her friend was nearly kicked out of her mosque after being berated for daring to pray in the male prayer area because the designated women’s section was a hot, moldy basement.

“It is my optimistic belief that as more people see photos of the spaces women must pray in, and hear our stories, we will gain more male allies who will collaborate with us to improve the situation,” Hind states on her Tumblr.

Read more about Hind’s movement and project here.

2. Hidayet Tuksal

Turkish feminist theologist, Hidayet Tuksal, offers a unique and empowered perspective in today’s polarized Turkey.

Prompted by the misogyny of her male colleagues in school, Tuksal began to study Islamic theology as a way to combat the religious sexist speech and to liberate the religious text from the readings of the male gaze.

Tuksal has faced harsh criticism from both the left wing feminists and the right. Wearing a headscarf in a time where ultra-secular Turkey had banned it in universities and public offices, Tuksal was a walking paradox.

In a country where you are either a headscarf-wearing, docile, ultra-orthodox Muslim woman or a staunch secular opposing the headscarf, Tuksal created a public space for an alternative.

A space for women who found themselves in Islam and were liberated in its text and practices.

“There is no single feminism, just as there is no single Islam,” Tuskal stated in an interview.

“Given this diversity, I can say I feel close to feminism based on the common denominator of rejecting and fighting mentalities that view the male as the essential human being and secondarize the female”.

3. Asma Lamrabet

A physician by profession, Moroccan feminist Asma worked as a doctor in Central America where she was exposed to Liberation Theology that helped her revisit understandings of liberation in her religion, Islam.

Liberation Theology is derived from the practice inspired in Christian movements in Latin America that prioritize the liberation and justice for the oppressed and derives religious understanding from this foundation.

Lamrabet focuses on discussing certain practices, such as the hijab, through a Western colonialist context. She also looks at the ways the Quran has been historically interpreted to uphold patriarchy due to cultural and political realities of certain times. 

Lamrabet places emphasis on the violent history of Western colonialism and imperialism as a factor in the current gender and socio-political inequity found in many parts of the Muslim world.

In her rejection of Western feminism, Lamrabet states a belief that all women are in the same struggle against hegemonic patriarchy without any historical or geographical context. She attempts to dispel the idea that women are all unified unanimously in a struggle against patriarchy.

She states, “Concepts such as colonization, racism or slavery, are all absent in the hegemonic feminist thought, and as south feminists or “marginalized” feminists, we must have our own experience that allows us to develop our own strategy of resistance and mobilization.”

She considers herself a ‘third-way’ feminist. She describes a third way feminist as one that rejects the two sides presented currently in the mainstream understanding of gender practices: Western feminism and religious conservatism.

Her third-way belief finds her liberation through the rereading of the religious text away from patriarchal and Western influenced understandings of Islam.

Lamrabet has written five books about Islamic feminism and they are absolutely powerful, recommended reads!

4. Zainah Anwar

A Malaysian feminist, Zainah founded a civil society organization called Sisters In Islam (SIS) in Malaysia, that focused on Islamic law pertaining to women rights and Family Law in Malaysia.

Through SIS, Zainah and other Malaysian activists attempt to bring multiple visions to life. This includes creating a framework of gender rights in Islam that encompasses diverse experiences of women.

This work is joined with their long term goal of advocating, through research and public outreach, the public’s mindset around gender equality in Islam. Through public awareness, SIS hopes to be able to reform local laws to make them more gender equitable and empowering.

According to Anwar, the organization started with a question: “If God is just, if Islam is just, why do laws and policies made in the name of Islam create injustice?”

Through this question, SIS was able to bring together academics, lawyers, theologists, and activists to look into Islamic Family Law and the Quran and see what it really says about certain issues such as domestic violence, polygamy, and obedience.

Through the rereading of the text and placing it in socio-political contexts, SIS is attempting to change public perception and reform laws through constitutional grounds.

You can read a more in depth conversation with Zainah through her interview with Muslima.

5. Amina Wadud

Born into a Methodist family, Amina Wadud converted to Islam in the early 1970’s.

Holding a doctorate in Islamic Studies and Arabic from the University of Michigan, Wadud spent some time delving deeper into Islamic studies in Cairo where she studied at the historical Islamic Al Azhar University.

From there, Wadud dedicated her time in lifting the voices of women through her strong stance that patriarchy actually takes someone out of the fold of Islam.

Meaning that if you believe that men are superior to women, you are therefore contradicting the message of the Quran which advocates the equality of both men and women and directly violates the idea that we are equal under the superiority of Allah.

Through this lens, Wadud strips any patriarchal approach to Islam by taking the initiative to deliver Friday sermons to mixed congregations (a job traditionally given to men) to leading the prayers of mixed congregations.

Wadud pushes the comfort of what was never challenged, forcing everyone to have a conversation and ask themselves: what did the Quran really say? What did Prophet Muhammed actually advocate for?

This curiosity opens us up to new questions and, through this, Wadud believes we are able to come to the essence of a text that patriarchy has corrupted.

Wadud talks extensively about this process in her book, “Qurʼan and woman rereading the sacred text from a woman’s perspective.”

***

I share these great women with you in hopes that you will push yourself to explore the diverse activist history of Muslim women.

Do all these women agree with each other? Probably not. Do all Muslim women support them? I don’t think so.

What we can say is that they open up spaces for themselves and others to explore their own understandings of their faith and provide them with tools for liberation.

Every Muslim woman has a unique relationship with her religion, herself, and her womanhood and they should all be recognized and uplifted.

Any liberation that relies on the oppression of others or causes injustice must be recognized as such. These women acknowledge this and advocate courageously in order to live out this truth.



Hadiya Abdelrahman is an Everyday Feminism Reporting Fellow. Hadiya graduated from Rutgers University with a double major in Women and Gender studies and Middle Eastern Studies. Hadiya currently works with refugees and asylees in NYC. When she’s not at work, Hadiya writes angry rants and poetry. She enjoys writing about topics that focus on refugees, intersectional feminism, and state violence against people of color.


http://everydayfeminism.com/2017/07/badass-muslim-feminists/?utm_content=bufferd26b3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I hope they have their life insurance policies in order.

how many clits among the five women?

Thanks, Mother. How many of them blame Islam?

Karnal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 11:05pm:

Thanks, Mother. How many of them blame Islam?

Er... all of them.

You know what would impress me, if just one of them studied science instead of some backward sky fairy superstitious horse sh1t from hundreds of years ago, you couldn't get any greater waste of time than to believe in a horse sh1t fairy story and pretend it is real.

They like every other religious idiot, they are irrelevant.


Try again when they reject superstition for science, then I will be impressed.

You left out Yassmin.

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 12:22pm:

You left out Yassmin.

  :)

---

Dumb title for a topic...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LF92cTLpKaE/hqdefault.jpg

SCHOOLGIRL SHOT!!!

Benazir Bhutto

http://www.aryzauq.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Benazir_Bhutto_46.jpg

Assassinated!!!

The Killing of Farkhundah

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/asia/100000004108808/the-killing-of-farkhunda.html

Jeanie.

Put back in her bottle.

---

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 8:43pm:

Jeanie. Put back in her bottle.

Jeanie did anything her master said, she was from Bagdad, its what they do.

Johnnie wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 9:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 8:43pm: Jeanie. Put back in her bottle. Jeanie did anything her master said, she was from Bagdad, its what they do.

Well yes, but she drew the line at dating Major Healey and staying away from the base when Major Nelson had a new secretary.

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Johnnie wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:55pm: Karnal wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 8:43pm: Jeanie. Put back in her bottle. Jeanie did anything her master said, she was from Bagdad, its what they do. Well yes, but she drew the line at dating Major Healey and staying away from the base when Major Nelson had a new secretary.

I liked Jeanies sister, she was the wild one.

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 8:43pm:

Jeanie. Put back in her bottle.

Interesting, isn't it? How the usual suspects who bemoan women's rights when overlooked by Muslim men use those women's rights to suppress women's rights?

Anyone would think they would support and encourage these women .. be pleased of their existence even.

Alas, it's not what they want to talk about, is it.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/0aed536229ab30f76656f2380d8a47e4/tumblr_mpn82p4CMH1suchdko1_400.gif

Grendel wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 7:15pm:

The Killing of Farkhundah https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/asia/100000004108808/the-killing-of-farkhunda.html

mothra wrote on Aug 7^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 8:43pm: Jeanie. Put back in her bottle. Interesting, isn't it? How the usual suspects who bemoan women's rights when overlooked by Muslim men use those women's rights to suppress women's rights? Anyone would think they would support and encourage these women .. be pleased of their existence even. Alas, it's not what they want to talk about, is it. http://25.media.tumblr.com/0aed536229ab30f76656f2380d8a47e4/tumblr_mpn82p4CMH1suchdko1_400.gif

Now now, Mother, as an advocate of women's rights, FD has been most vocal in his support:


freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 12:22pm:

You left out Yassmin.

I think the original badass Muslim woman is that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime.

Wassup Karnal, you and your prog mates seem to not want to address reality.


Grendel wrote on Aug 7^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

Grendel wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 7:15pm: The Killing of Farkhundah https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/asia/100000004108808/the-killing-of-farkhunda.html

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

I think the original badass Muslim woman is that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime.

Pathetic, leftards, just pathetic.

Where do they get this lame BS spin from?

Australia's first female Muslim MP wants to change 18C race laws to include religion - so it is illegal to insult followers of Islam

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4356680/Muslim-MP-Anne-Aly-wants-Islam-insults-race-laws.html

Australia's first female federal Muslim MP Anne Aly wants racial discrimination laws broadened so it is illegal to insult followers of Islam.

The Egyptian-born politician's call comes only days after a motion was passed in Canada calling on the federal government to 'condemn Islamophobia'.

While Australia's Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull wants to remove the words 'insult', 'offend' and 'humiliate' from section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, Labor wants to go the opposite way.

Labor's Dr Aly, a counter-terrorism expert before she was elected to parliament in 2016, has argued there is 'scope to reassess' extending section 18C so the definition of race 'extends to religion'.

'I find it a little bit strange that someone can call you a "dirty Arab" and that be covered under the bill, but if they called you a dirty Muslim, you're not covered [under 18C],' she told The Australian.

'There's scope there. I'd like to see that discussion happen because I think we have definitely seen an increase in anti-Islamic rhetoric.'

Islamic activists have also been outspoken critics of the Turnbull Government's plans to amend the Racial Discrimination Act so people are only covered by 18C if they 'harass' or 'intimidate' someone on the basis of their race.

Islamist psychologist Hanan Dover described the government as 's****' on her Facebook page and praised Dr Aly as a 'federal minister' even though she's in opposition and doesn't even hold a shadow frontbench position.

'When you're a bad*** federal minister like Anne Aly asking the PM Malcolm Turnbull an important and very simple and question on 18C Racial Discrimination Act and he couldn't answer it, this is the look you give,' she said with an image of her in parliament.

Ms Dover is also campaigning to stop Somali-born Islam critic Ayaan Hirsi Ali from touring Australian next month and has previously represented accused terror suspects.

Dr Aly's call to amend racial discrimination laws to include religion comes a week after Victoria's Multicultural Affairs Minister Robin Scott threatened to strengthen state laws that already curb the right to criticise religion.

'We will review Victoria's Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 to consider ways to strengthen legislative protections, should the federal coalition be successful with their amendments,' he said.

Religious vilification laws potentially threaten secular values and open the door to blasphemy cases if they are legally exploited by religious groups.

Labor, the Greens and some crossbench senators including Nick Xenophon have indicated they will defeat the government's proposed changes to 18C in the Senate.

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime.

You have to give credit to FD - to be able to create even more spin from the spin of a Daily Mail article.

Here is how this sinister non-practicing muslim apparently attempts to reintroduce blasphemy as a crime:


Quote:

“Radicalisation and issues like this don’t get created in a vacuum,” she told The New Daily on Tuesday night. “Where you have a society that enables people to say and do things, to act in ways that targets certain groups, that alienates certain groups, [it has an impact]. “And I’m not just talking here about things that might affect minority groups. I’m also talking about your radical Muslim preacher standing up and making derogatory remarks about Jews and Christians.”

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2017/03/21/anne-aly-18c-racial-discrimination-act/

Never mind that offences under 18c are not criminal offences, and therefore any proposal to broaden 18c has nothing to do with making anything a "crime".

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:14pm: that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime. You have to give credit to FD - to be able to create even more spin from the spin of a Daily Mail article. Here is how this sinister non-practicing muslim apparently attempts to reintroduce blasphemy as a crime: Quote: “Radicalisation and issues like this don’t get created in a vacuum,” she told The New Daily on Tuesday night. “Where you have a society that enables people to say and do things, to act in ways that targets certain groups, that alienates certain groups, [it has an impact]. “And I’m not just talking here about things that might affect minority groups. I’m also talking about your radical Muslim preacher standing up and making derogatory remarks about Jews and Christians.” http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2017/03/21/anne-aly-18c-racial-discrimination-act/ Never mind that offences under 18c are not criminal offences, and therefore any proposal to broaden 18c has nothing to do with making anything a "crime".

FD forgot to mention that bit, G. An easy mishtake to make.

Quote:

The Act as it stands Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act says: It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if: (a) the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and (b) the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person or of some or all of the people in the group.

Is the immense portion of the qur'an which disseminates hatred and murder of the kaffir/unbeliever in breach of 18c?

moses wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Quote: The Act as it stands Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act says: It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if: (a) the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and (b) the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person or of some or all of the people in the group. Is the immense portion of the qur'an which disseminates hatred and murder of the kaffir/unbeliever in breach of 18c?

Hard to say, Moses. Is the doubly immense proportion of the Old Testament in breach of 18C?

Awwwwwww


The Turnbull government has not renewed Muslim activist Yassmin Abdel-Magied’s position as a board member of the Council of Australian-Arab relations.

---

karnal wrote:


Quote:

Hard to say, Moses. Is the doubly immense proportion of the Old Testament in breach of 18C?

You'll have to ask the the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaims, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

As they were the people living here 3,500 years ago http://www.differentspirit.org/articles/images/promised_land2.jpg

However the qur'an preaches hatred of the present day unbeliever in a world wide context in the present tense.

Unbelievers are being murdered by muslims today 2017 because of the hate speech in the qur'an

Two very different scenarios.

But then again the muzzie and the apologists will try any smokesceen in the book to protect the islamic terrorist of the 21st century, won't they?

Gordon wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 4:04pm:

Awwwwwww The Turnbull government has not renewed Muslim activist Yassmin Abdel-Magied’s position as a board member of the Council of Australian-Arab relations.

Good photo, Gordon. Doing a rendition of Mammy, is she?

moses wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 4:10pm:

karnal wrote: Quote: Hard to say, Moses. Is the doubly immense proportion of the Old Testament in breach of 18C? You'll have to ask the the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaims, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites, and the Jebusites. As they were the people living here 3,500 years ago http://www.differentspirit.org/articles/images/promised_land2.jpg However the qur'an preaches hatred of the present day unbeliever in a world wide context in the present tense. Unbelievers are being murdered by muslims today 2017 because of the hate speech in the qur'an Two very different scenarios. But then again the muzzie and the apologists will try any smokesceen in the book to protect the islamic terrorist of the 21st century, won't they?

Yes, Moses, but I asked which proportion of the Old Testament breaches 18C. The Old Testament has the same tense as the Koran. Its commands (laws) are in the present and future tense.

The command to beat scolding women? The command to burn sorcerers and witches? The command to stone blasphemers? Adulterers? Hommers?

I'd say it'd be in breach of vilification laws at the very least. You?

Karnal wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 4:12pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 4:04pm: Awwwwwww The Turnbull government has not renewed Muslim activist Yassmin Abdel-Magied’s position as a board member of the Council of Australian-Arab relations. Good photo, Gordon. Doing a rendition of Mammy, is she?

Hey that's borderline racist. Tsk tsk tsk.

I like this one

---

Still, the Islamophobes use a thread talking about the great achievements of Muslim women who are striving to represent women's rights to hang poo on Muslim women they don't like.

I don't know about my sisters, but i feel empowered.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:14pm: that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime. You have to give credit to FD - to be able to create even more spin from the spin of a Daily Mail article. Here is how this sinister non-practicing muslim apparently attempts to reintroduce blasphemy as a crime: Quote: “Radicalisation and issues like this don’t get created in a vacuum,” she told The New Daily on Tuesday night. “Where you have a society that enables people to say and do things, to act in ways that targets certain groups, that alienates certain groups, [it has an impact]. “And I’m not just talking here about things that might affect minority groups. I’m also talking about your radical Muslim preacher standing up and making derogatory remarks about Jews and Christians.” http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2017/03/21/anne-aly-18c-racial-discrimination-act/ Never mind that offences under 18c are not criminal offences, and therefore any proposal to broaden 18c has nothing to do with making anything a "crime".

Oh no. Not a society that enables people to say things. No wonder these badass Muslim women are trying to put a stop to it.


mothra wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 4:31pm:

Still, the Islamophobes use a thread talking about the great achievements of Muslim women who are striving to represent women's rights to hang poo on Muslim women they don't like. I don't know about my sisters, but i feel empowered.

I thought we were talking about badass Muslim women. It's cool to be a Muslim, don't you know?

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 2:07pm: freediver wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:14pm: that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime. You have to give credit to FD - to be able to create even more spin from the spin of a Daily Mail article. Here is how this sinister non-practicing muslim apparently attempts to reintroduce blasphemy as a crime: Quote: “Radicalisation and issues like this don’t get created in a vacuum,” she told The New Daily on Tuesday night. “Where you have a society that enables people to say and do things, to act in ways that targets certain groups, that alienates certain groups, [it has an impact]. “And I’m not just talking here about things that might affect minority groups. I’m also talking about your radical Muslim preacher standing up and making derogatory remarks about Jews and Christians.” http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2017/03/21/anne-aly-18c-racial-discrimination-act/ Never mind that offences under 18c are not criminal offences, and therefore any proposal to broaden 18c has nothing to do with making anything a "crime". Oh no. Not a society that enables people to say things. No wonder these badass Muslim women are trying to put a stop to it.

She's your badarse Muslim woman, FD, you put her on the list. Are you saying you'd like to enable people to say things about Jews and Christians?

That's a question. You get to answer first.

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 10:35am:

You know what would impress me, if just one of them studied science instead of some backward sky fairy superstitious horse sh1t from hundreds of years ago, you couldn't get any greater waste of time than to believe in a horse sh1t fairy story and pretend it is real. They like every other religious idiot, they are irrelevant. Try again when they reject superstition for science, then I will be impressed.

x2

I note Mothra has successfully ignored everything I posted that was factual.
Well done Mothra.
Typical Prog...   :D

Grendel wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 9:47am:

I note Mothra has successfully ignored everything I posted that was factual. Well done Mothra. Typical Prog...   :D

You ignored everything that i posted that was factual.

You just couldn't bring yourself to accept and acknowledge feminist Muslim campaigners so you tried to derai the thread with horror stories.

As i previously said, i would have thought critics of Islam as it presents would encourage reform and expression of women's rights ... but you only want to drown these women out and tell them they are irrelevant to your narrative.

I honestly see no difference to the misogyny you present to the misogyny you claim to condemn.

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 2:07pm: freediver wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:14pm: that Labor MP who wants to broaden 18c as a way of reintroducing blasphemy as a crime. You have to give credit to FD - to be able to create even more spin from the spin of a Daily Mail article. Here is how this sinister non-practicing muslim apparently attempts to reintroduce blasphemy as a crime: Quote: “Radicalisation and issues like this don’t get created in a vacuum,” she told The New Daily on Tuesday night. “Where you have a society that enables people to say and do things, to act in ways that targets certain groups, that alienates certain groups, [it has an impact]. “And I’m not just talking here about things that might affect minority groups. I’m also talking about your radical Muslim preacher standing up and making derogatory remarks about Jews and Christians.” http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2017/03/21/anne-aly-18c-racial-discrimination-act/ Never mind that offences under 18c are not criminal offences, and therefore any proposal to broaden 18c has nothing to do with making anything a "crime". Oh no. Not a society that enables people to say things. No wonder these badass Muslim women are trying to put a stop to it.

So why not just criticise her for what you perceive as an attack on free speech - why all the patently untrue BS about attempts to criminalise speech and introducing blasphemy laws?

Not sure what distinction you are trying to make Gandalf. If you make it illegal to criticise a religion, that is a reintroduction of blasphemy laws.

unlawful, not illegal - there is a difference, and that difference means that it is not introducing anything criminal - like you falsely claimed:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/2014-04-30/alan-tudge-incorrect-on-racial-disrcimination-act/5378960

Also, Dr Aly never advocated 18c should include criticising a religion, she suggested it should be extended to vilifying someone on the basis of their religious beliefs - there's quite a difference, and that is not in any way shape or form calling for blasphemy laws. And in this she makes two compelling points: 1. religion is already included, in the case of sikhs and jews - why not muslims? and 2. you can't, according to 18c as it currently stands, call someone a "dirty arab", but you can call someone a "dirty muslim" - even though both can undoubtedly be classed racial vilification.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 2:49pm:

unlawful, not illegal - there is a difference, and that difference means that it is not introducing anything criminal - like you falsely claimed: http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/2014-04-30/alan-tudge-incorrect-on-racial-disrcimination-act/5378960 Also, Dr Aly never advocated 18c should include criticising a religion, she suggested it should be extended to vilifying someone on the basis of their religious beliefs - there's quite a difference, and that is not in any way shape or form calling for blasphemy laws. And in this she makes two compelling points: 1. religion is already included, in the case of sikhs and jews - why not muslims? and 2. you can't, according to 18c as it currently stands, call someone a "dirty arab", but you can call someone a "dirty muslim" - even though both can undoubtedly be classed racial vilification.

Yes, G, but FD's talking about the part where Dr Aly wants to reintroduce beheading for all those who insult the prophet.

You need to listen to what Muslims themselves say.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 2:49pm:

unlawful, not illegal - there is a difference, and that difference means that it is not introducing anything criminal - like you falsely claimed: http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/2014-04-30/alan-tudge-incorrect-on-racial-disrcimination-act/5378960 Also, Dr Aly never advocated 18c should include criticising a religion, she suggested it should be extended to vilifying someone on the basis of their religious beliefs - there's quite a difference, and that is not in any way shape or form calling for blasphemy laws. And in this she makes two compelling points: 1. religion is already included, in the case of sikhs and jews - why not muslims? and 2. you can't, according to 18c as it currently stands, call someone a "dirty arab", but you can call someone a "dirty muslim" - even though both can undoubtedly be classed racial vilification.

We definitely need something in there for when religious lunatics over-react to valid criticism.


Wouldn't you say?

---

That image is incitement to violence IMO, and those idiots should have the book thrown at them - as I have argued many times.

karnal Reply #32 - Yesterday at 4:20pm


Quote:

The command to beat scolding women? The command to burn sorcerers and witches? The command to stone blasphemers? Adulterers? Hommers? I'd say it'd be in breach of vilification laws at the very least. You?

Vilification against who?


Quote:

Deuteronomy 18:9-14  “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, ...

Deuteronomy is totally specific, it refers to the ancient people of the promised land only, it has absolutely nothing to do with today or modern people, it is out dated.(the antithesis of the qur'an which says to kill all non muslims and corrupt muslims wherever they may be)

Then we have


Quote:

Leviticus 20:27  “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

The content of Leviticus relates directly to Exodus, providing evidence that the same hand penned both books.

Leviticus is a covenant between Y.H.W.H. and the Hebrews only. It is mosaic law, not commandments (there is a difference).

Leviticus has absolutely nothing to do with any other people, it relates distinctly to archaic Jews (with archaic being the pertinent word).

It is obvious to everyone that the behaviour of the modern Jew is proof that mosaic law is not set in stone.

Can you show how mosaic law is meant for all times?

So in view of the antiquity and the now non existence of mosaic law in practice.

I would say 18c does not apply

Now to get to the muslims terrorists you desperately try to protect.

Precisely because of the hated and murder imparted in the qur'an, muslims divide the world into two parts, dar al-Islam literally the house or region of submission,those lands under  muslim  government and  dar  al-Harb  the house or region of war, those lands where muslims are  in  the  minority.  For  muslims  peace  will  be achieved when the whole world is dar al-Islam. Until that time there will be conflict in dar al-Harb.

The majority of the qur'an is devoted to the hatred and slaughter of the kafir / unbeliever.

There is no time limit.

There are no land boundaries / borders.

The qur'an is pure hate speech directed against unbelievers today 2017.

I'd say it most probably is in breech of 18c.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 2:49pm:

unlawful, not illegal - there is a difference

Thanks Gandalf, we need another internet lawyer.


Quote:

Also, Dr Aly never advocated 18c should include criticising a religion, she suggested it should be extended to vilifying someone on the basis of their religious beliefs - there's quite a difference, and that is not in any way shape or form calling for blasphemy laws.

Ah, so it should be illegal to claim that only an idiot would believe the Koran? Doesn't sound like introducing blasphemy legislation at all, does it?


Quote:

And in this she makes two compelling points: 1. religion is already included, in the case of sikhs and jews - why not muslims?

Because in the case of Sikhs and Jews, it is included because the religious grouping is conflatable with the racial one. The same is not true with proselytising religions. I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before. Plenty of people identify as Jewish on racial grounds. The holocaust for example targeted racial, not religious Jews.


Quote:

2. you can't, according to 18c as it currently stands, call someone a "dirty arab", but you can call someone a "dirty muslim" - even though both can undoubtedly be classed racial vilification.

Islam is not a race Gandalf. This has also been explained to you.


Quote:

That image is incitement to violence IMO, and those idiots should have the book thrown at them - as I have argued many times.

Should it also be illegal to read out chapter 9 of the Koran?

moses wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

karnal Reply #32 - Yesterday at 4:20pm Quote: The command to beat scolding women? The command to burn sorcerers and witches? The command to stone blasphemers? Adulterers? Hommers? I'd say it'd be in breach of vilification laws at the very least. You? Vilification against who? [quote]Deuteronomy 18:9-14  “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, ...

Deuteronomy is totally specific, it refers to the ancient people of the promised land only, it has absolutely nothing to do with today or modern people, it is out dated.(the antithesis of the qur'an which says to kill all non muslims and corrupt muslims wherever they may be)

Then we have


Quote:

Leviticus 20:27  “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

The content of Leviticus relates directly to Exodus, providing evidence that the same hand penned both books.

Leviticus is a covenant between Y.H.W.H. and the Hebrews only. It is mosaic law, not commandments (there is a difference).

Leviticus has absolutely nothing to do with any other people, it relates distinctly to archaic Jews (with archaic being the pertinent word).

It is obvious to everyone that the behaviour of the modern Jew is proof that mosaic law is not set in stone.

Can you show how mosaic law is meant for all times?

So in view of the antiquity and the now non existence of mosaic law in practice.

I would say 18c does not apply

Now to get to the muslims terrorists you desperately try to protect.

Precisely because of the hated and murder imparted in the qur'an, muslims divide the world into two parts, dar al-Islam literally the house or region of submission,those lands under  muslim  government and  dar  al-Harb  the house or region of war, those lands where muslims are  in  the  minority.  For  muslims  peace  will  be achieved when the whole world is dar al-Islam. Until that time there will be conflict in dar al-Harb.

The majority of the qur'an is devoted to the hatred and slaughter of the kafir / unbeliever.

There is no time limit.

There are no land boundaries / borders.

The qur'an is pure hate speech directed against unbelievers today 2017.

I'd say it most probably is in breech of 18c.[/quote]

That's not what the Rabbis say, Moses. They tell people to follow those laws.

Don't tell me you haven't heard this?

mothra wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 11:31am:

Grendel wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:47am: I note Mothra has successfully ignored everything I posted that was factual. Well done Mothra. Typical Prog...   :D You ignored everything that i posted that was factual. No I didn't. You just couldn't bring yourself to accept and acknowledge feminist Muslim campaigners so you tried to derai the thread with horror stories. You couldn't bring yourself to address reality. As i previously said, i would have thought critics of Islam as it presents would encourage reform and expression of women's rights ... but you only want to drown these women out and tell them they are irrelevant to your narrative. Liar liar pants on fire.  I actually worry about their safety. I honestly see no difference to the misogyny you present to the misogyny you claim to condemn.

Well I'm not a misogynist so there you go your argument fell over before the first hurdle.
Name calling doesn't make you right Mothra.
It just makes you consistent. :D :D :D :D :D

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

Because in the case of Sikhs and Jews, it is included because the religious grouping is conflatable with the racial one. The same is not true with proselytising religions. I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before.

By "explain" you mean you've prattled on with your completely incoherent and contradictory non-explanations of what is and what isn't race. I think you were up to insisting on the one hand racism can't possibly involve made up races like "muslim" - but it can totally involve made up races like 'sand niigger'.

But what has been explained to you, and which you even agreed with, is that anti-muslim bigotry can and does involve racism. No one is seriously going to argue - except possibly you - that picking out a tinted skin woman on the street who is wearing a hijab and yanking off her hijab and calling her "dirty muslim" for no other reason than their appearance - is anything other than racist.

Quote:

By "explain" you mean you've prattled on with your completely incoherent and contradictory non-explanations of what is and what isn't race. I think you were up to insisting on the one hand racism can't possibly involve made up races like "muslim" - but it can totally involve made up races like 'sand niigger'.

Not sure what is so complicated about it Gandalf. A religion is something you believe in. Race is something you are born with. Much as you hate the Jews, you cannot deny that the word Jew is used with both meanings. Suck it up princess, the Jews got one over on you. But at least they won't tell you to convert or die.


Quote:

But what has been explained to you, and which you even agreed with, is that anti-muslim bigotry can and does involve racism.

Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it?


Quote:

No one is seriously going to argue - except possibly you - that picking out a tinted skin woman on the street who is wearing a hijab and yanking off her hijab and calling her "dirty muslim" for no other reason than their appearance - is anything other than racist.

If some school kids pick on a classmate because he appears to be obese, or a red head, or a cripple, or gay, or emo, is that also racist? I know you desperately want to cloak Islam in some kind of flame shield, but at the end of the day it is a book of lies that you choose to believe in, and you cannot stop people criticising you for making that choice, no matter how loudly you cry wacist, or Islamophobe. Or how bad your womens' asses are.

Yes, G, are fatties, redheads, cripples, gays or emos a race? You tell us that.

Until then, FD's not racist, okay?

Grendel wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 8:05pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 11:31am: Grendel wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:47am: I note Mothra has successfully ignored everything I posted that was factual. Well done Mothra. Typical Prog...   :D You ignored everything that i posted that was factual. No I didn't. You just couldn't bring yourself to accept and acknowledge feminist Muslim campaigners so you tried to derai the thread with horror stories. You couldn't bring yourself to address reality. As i previously said, i would have thought critics of Islam as it presents would encourage reform and expression of women's rights ... but you only want to drown these women out and tell them they are irrelevant to your narrative. Liar liar pants on fire.  I actually worry about their safety. I honestly see no difference to the misogyny you present to the misogyny you claim to condemn. Well I'm not a misogynist so there you go your argument fell over before the first hurdle.

There you go, Mother. FD's not racist, and Grendel's not a misogynist.

Let's all leave it at that.

Grendel's not irritable either, Karnal. Although he was cross when he said that.

No I'm not irritable.

No matter how many lies you make up or how irritating YOU try to be.

Like I said Mother of all LIARS...

I'm not a misogynist so there you go your argument fell over before the first hurdle.
Name calling doesn't make you right Mothra.
It just makes you consistent.

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it?

I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:16pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it?

Not at all. Muslims are a retarded, part-Negroid subhuman interbreed, who squat down to piss and play with their dicks afterwards.

As FD says, a plausible theory. And he'll fight to the death for your right to say it.

Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh!

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:16pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it?

The gist of it is that Islam is not a race.

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:56pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm: freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it? The gist of it is that Islam is not a race.

That's right - they're an inbred sub-race.

You're not racist, FD. Some of your best friends are Muslims, no?

Grendel wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 12:15pm:

No I'm not irritable. No matter how many lies you make up or how irritating YOU try to be. Like I said Mother of all LIARS... I'm not a misogynist so there you go your argument fell over before the first hurdle. Name calling doesn't make you right Mothra. It just makes you consistent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-GFZ4bdSiQ

You keep proving me right Mothra...  gee thanks.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Grendel wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

You keep proving me right Mothra...  gee thanks. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm good ... but i'm not that good.

Actually good doesn't come into it when people refer to you.
Certainly not when I do.

Good for nothing maybe... :D

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:35pm:

Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh!

Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins.


Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity.


Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :)

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 11:34am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:35pm: Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh! Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins. Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity. Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :)

Hate them.

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:15pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:34am: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:35pm: Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh! Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins. Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity. Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :) Hate them.

Hate

Despise

Loathe

Deride

Spurn

Scorn


You get the gist.  :) :)

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:34am: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:35pm: Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh! Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins. Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity. Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :) Hate them. Hate Despise Loathe Deride Spurn Scorn You get the gist.  :) :)

In the nicest possible way, of course.

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:56pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm: freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it? The gist of it is that Islam is not a race.

No, actually I'm genuinely interested in this question FD - do you think its ever possible for the slur "dirty muslim" to be racist?

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 11:34am:

Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :)

Indeed bigol - and by "hatred of the stupid", that is in a very literal sense in the case of moses - who argues that the muslim race subspecies population have all become intellectually disabled due to inbreeding. And in Frank's case, he argues that the level of fanaticism in a muslim has a direct correlation to their level of tintedness (the darker, the more rabid - of course).

But as you say, nothing to do with racism.

Quote:

that is in a very literal sense in the case of moses - who argues that the muslim race subspecies population have all become intellectually disabled due to inbreeding.

Health studies show that close to half of all muslims in the world are inbred: In Pakistan, 70% of all marriages are between first cousins (so-called "consanguinity") and in Turkey the amount is between 25-30% (Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 More stillbirths among immigrants"

Statistical research on Arabic countries shows that up to 34% of all marriages in Algiers are consanguine (blood related), 46% in Bahrain, 33% in Egypt, 80% in Nubia (southern area in Egypt), 60% in Iraq, 64% in Jordan, 64% in Kuwait, 42% in Lebanon, 48% in Libya, 47%in Mauritania, 54% in Qatar, 67% in Saudi Arabia, 63% in Sudan, 40% in Syria, 39% in Tunisia, 54% in the United Arabic Emirates and 45% in Yemen (Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs.).

A large part of inbred muslims are born from parents who are themselves inbred - which increase the risks of negative mental and physical consequenses greatly.

Low intelligence
Research has shown that children of consanguineous marriages have lower intelligence than children of non-related parents. Research shows that the IQ is 10-16 points lower in children born from related parents and that abilities related to social behavior develops slower in inbred babies:

The risk of having an IQ lower than 70 goes up 400% from 1.2% in children from normal parents to 6.2% in inbred children: "The data indicate that the risk for mental retardation in matings of normal parents increases from 0.012 with random matings to 0.062 for first-cousin parentage." (Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, 1978 Effect of inbreeding on IQ and mental retardation").

Mental and physical diseases and death
The risk of stillbirth doubles when parents are first cousins (Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 More stillbirths among immigrants). One study analyzed the risk of perinatal death (the child dies during its own birth), infant death (child dies while still infant) and autosomal recessive disorders (serious and often deadly genetic diseases such as cystic fibrosis and spinal muscular atrophy)

Evidence indicates that inbred people has a higher risk of developing mental disorders: "The clinical observations indicated that depression is very high in some communities where the consanguinity of marriages is also high." (Indian Journal of Psychiatry, 2009 "Relationship between consanguinity and depression in a south Indian population".

Another study focused on the relationship between intermarriage and schizophrenia: "The closer the blood relative, the more likely was there to be a schizophrenic illness." (American Psychiatric Press, 1982 The role of genetic factors  in the ethiology of the schizophrenic disorders).

Implications for muslim inbreeding:
The consequences for offspring of consanguineous marriages are clear: Death, low intelligence, mental retardation, pyhsical handicaps and diseases.

Limited social skills and understanding, limited ability to manage education and work procedures and painful treatment procedures. The negative cognitive consequences also influence the executive functions. The impairment of concentration and emotional control most often leads to anti-social behavior.

Low intelligence directly limits a muslims ability to understand, appreciate and produce knowledge.

Source1

Source2

Source3

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:33pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:34am: Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :) Indeed bigol - and by "hatred of the stupid", that is in a very literal sense in the case of moses - who argues that the muslim race subspecies population have all become intellectually disabled due to inbreeding. And in Frank's case, he argues that the level of fanaticism in a muslim has a direct correlation to their level of tintedness (the darker, the more rabid - of course). But as you say, nothing to do with racism.

But since it is MY hatred it stands as I explained it. I want all religion wipe off the face of the earth and completely banned for human existence.  :) :)


If you believe in the tooth fairy or whatever made up story that floats your boat, then you cannot claim any intellectual standing, no matter how well you know the subject matter.


Every nut bag religion require the complete suspension of rational thought, which is why you get so many fkken retards doing what they do, it is an activity for the gullible and the incredibly stupid.

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:00pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:32pm: Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:34am: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:35pm: Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh! Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins. Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity. Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :) Hate them. Hate Despise Loathe Deride Spurn Scorn You get the gist.  :) :) In the nicest possible way, of course.

No, not really


I have zero tolerance for stupid people, you may have noticed this yourself.

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:50pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:00pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:32pm: Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:34am: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:35pm: Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh! Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins. Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity. Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :) Hate them. Hate Despise Loathe Deride Spurn Scorn You get the gist.  :) :) In the nicest possible way, of course. No, not really I have zero tolerance for stupid people, you may have noticed this yourself.

You might have noticed that wise people aren't constantly calling out people's stupidity and idiocy. The more you learn in life, the more you realise how little you know.

The more you hate others, the more you hate yourself.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:56pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm: freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it? The gist of it is that Islam is not a race. No, actually I'm genuinely interested in this question FD - do you think its ever possible for the slur "dirty muslim" to be racist?

Only to the extent that it is possible to say one thing and mean another.


BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:47pm:

But since it is MY hatred it stands as I explained it. I want all religion wipe off the face of the earth and completely banned for human existence.  :) :)

How would you achieve this?

Islam is NOT a race, people of all races can be Muslims...

SO NO confusing Islam or Muslims with a race or racial stereotypes is incorrect.

Now if I understand what FD has said and what you have said Gandalf why are you and others making this into something it needs not be. :D

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

The more you hate others, the more you hate yourself.

;D ;D

The more others hate you, the more you are hated by others.
The more others are hated by you, the more you hate others.

The more you utter, kameel, the more others see you as a bloody fool.
The more you are yourself the les we take you seriously.
Dialectical materialism, innit, you sad old paki fool.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 10:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:44pm: The more you hate others, the more you hate yourself. ;D ;D The more others hate you, the more you are hated by others. The more others are hated by you, the more you hate others. The more you utter, kameel, the more others see you as a bloody fool. The more you are yourself the les we take you seriously. Dialectical materialism, innit, you sad old paki fool.

It is indeed. Keep drinking, dear boy. In vino veritas, eh?

And just remember how much we all love you, dear.

karnal=Dope innit :)

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:26pm: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:56pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm: freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it? The gist of it is that Islam is not a race. No, actually I'm genuinely interested in this question FD - do you think its ever possible for the slur "dirty muslim" to be racist? Only to the extent that it is possible to say one thing and mean another. BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:47pm: But since it is MY hatred it stands as I explained it. I want all religion wipe off the face of the earth and completely banned for human existence.  :) :) How would you achieve this?

You do realise at times, what a person wants and what a person can achieve isn't the same thing, doesn't stop them from wanting it though.


It would most certainly make the world a better place.

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:50pm: Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:00pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:32pm: Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:34am: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:35pm: Thats fine karnal - see as long as you include the word "muslim" in your hate speech, - it cannot ever be racist. Sorry, wacist. What a loophole eh! Hating mussie is no different to hating christians, neither are a race, but they are gullible delusional cretins. Some people just hate the stupid and anyone and I mean anyone who believes in a glorified fkken tooth fairy needs to be hated for their stupidity. Racism or phobia has nothing to do with it, it just a hatred of the stupid.  :) :) Hate them. Hate Despise Loathe Deride Spurn Scorn You get the gist.  :) :) In the nicest possible way, of course. No, not really I have zero tolerance for stupid people, you may have noticed this yourself. You might have noticed that wise people aren't constantly calling out people's stupidity and idiocy. The more you learn in life, the more you realise how little you know. The more you hate others, the more you hate yourself.

Does believing in a myth / story / delusion as real, makes a person wise does it?

I do know that all religion is based on a fallacy, the universe does not exist because of a fkken fairy tale, and there in no evidence that would ever support this idiocy.

But if that changes and god is proven to be a scientific valid theory, then Im more than happy to apologise and wear the wrath of this entity. I doubt Ill be in too much trouble after Im dead.  ;D ;D


Hate is easy and doesn't take up too much of my time and everyone knows where I stand.  :) :)

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:26pm: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:56pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm: freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it? The gist of it is that Islam is not a race. No, actually I'm genuinely interested in this question FD - do you think its ever possible for the slur "dirty muslim" to be racist? Only to the extent that it is possible to say one thing and mean another.

I see, so you think that people can only be racist if they "mean" to be racist?

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 11:20pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 10:13pm: Karnal wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:44pm: The more you hate others, the more you hate yourself. ;D ;D The more others hate you, the more you are hated by others. The more others are hated by you, the more you hate others. The more you utter, kameel, the more others see you as a bloody fool. The more you are yourself the les we take you seriously. Dialectical materialism, innit, you sad old paki fool. It is indeed. Keep drinking, dear boy. In vino veritas, eh? And just remember how much we all love you, dear.

Yet you remain a sad paki fool.
Cheers.

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2017 at 10:03am:

freediver wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:16pm: BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:47pm: But since it is MY hatred it stands as I explained it. I want all religion wipe off the face of the earth and completely banned for human existence.  :) :) How would you achieve this? You do realise at times, what a person wants and what a person can achieve isn't the same thing, doesn't stop them from wanting it though. It would most certainly make the world a better place.

Then consider this as me asking what you want. How would you achieve this?


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

freediver wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:16pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:26pm: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:56pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm: freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:52pm: Sure. It is possible to hate Arabs and Muslims. It is possible to be a black lesbian. But being black and being a lesbian are not the same thing. Get it? I think I understand FD - you're saying that the bigot who attacks a tinted person in a hijab or a long beard can only be racist if he says "dirty arab" - and can never ever be racist if he says "dirty muslim". Is that the gist of it? The gist of it is that Islam is not a race. No, actually I'm genuinely interested in this question FD - do you think its ever possible for the slur "dirty muslim" to be racist? Only to the extent that it is possible to say one thing and mean another. I see, so you think that people can only be racist if they "mean" to be racist?

I think you'll find that Islam's critics tend not to mince their words the way you and other Muslims do Gandalf. It should not be some inconceivable mystery to you why people are hostile to Islam.

freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 11:36am:

I think you'll find that Islam's critics tend not to mince their words the way you and other Muslims do Gandalf.

I agree FD, genuine critics of Islam the religion tend to refrain from slurs like "dirty muslim", and declaring that 100% of the male muslim population are so mentally retarded through inbreeding that they squat to pee. And for good reason, saying those things are widely seen as racist.

But I'm curious FD, when you say "the way you and other Muslims do", you are obviously referring to the fact that you believe I'm an anti-semite racist. In any case, you've certainly rabbitted on enough about how my racism is expressed through mealy mouthed 'word mincing', like referring to the Banu Qurayza as "warriors" etc. So apparently racists *DO* mince words right? If thats the case, why would it be so hard to accept that someone can be racist against tinted asians under the guise of being an "Islam critic".


Quote:

it should not be some inconceivable mystery to you why people are hostile to Islam.

Is it inconceivable to you that all this (justified) hostility towards Islam over recent years has emboldened actual racists and given them a good excuse to attack a particular type of tinted people - not because they have a legitimate hostility towards Islam, but because they hate tinted people - because they are racist?   

Quote:

But I'm curious FD, when you say "the way you and other Muslims do", you are obviously referring to the fact that you believe I'm an anti-semite racist. In any case, you've certainly rabbitted on enough about how my racism is expressed through mealy mouthed 'word mincing', like referring to the Banu Qurayza as "warriors" etc.

There are plenty of examples Gandalf. But yes, the mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews is a classic, as are your efforts to put a positive, politically correct spin on your racist propaganda.


Quote:

So apparently racists *DO* mince words right?

Muslims do, because Islam is just as much a political movement as a religious one. Islam's strategy is to not confront people with the horrible truth about Islam, but to conceal it until it is too late.


Quote:

why would it be so hard to accept that someone can be racist against tinted asians under the guise of being an "Islam critic".

It's theoretically possible, but such people generally can't be bothered disguising what they think, the way Muslims do. If you suspect one here, feel free to point them out. I see this accusation made quite often, but it is usually just more hysterical victimhood mongering from Muslims and their apologists who will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid addressing what Islam's critics actually say. Far easier to cover your ears and scream racist, antifa style.


Quote:

Is it inconceivable to you that all this (justified) hostility towards Islam over recent years has emboldened actual racists and given them a good excuse to attack a particular type of tinted people - not because they have a legitimate hostility towards Islam, but because they hate tinted people - because they are racist?

   

There are plenty of racists jumping on the bandwagon. You can spot them by the swastikas tattooed on their forehead.

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 11:32am:

There are plenty of racists jumping on the bandwagon. You can spot them by the swastikas tattooed on their forehead.

So would a nazi singling out a tinted woman with a hijab and shouting "filthy muslim scum" meet your criteria of 'racism'?

He would be a racist, by virtue of being a Nazi. But if he chooses vanilla over chocolate that choice is not racist. Nor does it mean that he has no legitimate reason to despise Islam, or that his criticism is based on racism. He may well think she is scum by virtue of being a Muslim and everything that stands for. But it is your made up example, so you can make up whatever you want.

Why they extraordinary efforts to boil everything down to simplistic hysteria about racism?

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 4:52pm:

Why they extraordinary efforts to boil everything down to simplistic hysteria about racism?

Gosh FD, hysteria about racism? Some might think that screeching months and years on end about how "racist" it is to suggest that the mass execution of members of a 7th century tribe for breaking a treaty might be deemed justified by the standards and culture of the time - is a pretty good example of "simplistic hysteria about racism".

But what this is about is your stubborn refusal to acknowledge what is evident to blind Freddy: that mealy mouthed racists, who absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist,  have latched on to the anti-Islam bandwagon to feed their racism, with their favourite rejoinder "Islam is not a race"  merely being the latest incantation of the old "I'm not racist but..." excuse.

And the fact that you are the most hysterical whiner about racism - sorry wacism - here, when it concerns muslims and/or their apologists attacking jews, is just an interesting aside.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 5:10pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 4:52pm: Why they extraordinary efforts to boil everything down to simplistic hysteria about racism? Gosh FD, hysteria about racism? Some might think that screeching months and years on end about how "racist" it is to suggest that the mass execution of members of a 7th century tribe for breaking a treaty might be deemed justified by the standards and culture of the time - is a pretty good example of "simplistic hysteria about racism". But what this is about is your stubborn refusal to acknowledge what is evident to blind Freddy: that mealy mouthed racists, who absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist,  have latched on to the anti-Islam bandwagon to feed their racism, with their favourite rejoinder "Islam is not a race"  merely being the latest incantation of the old "I'm not racist but..." excuse. And the fact that you are the most hysterical whiner about racism - sorry wacism - here, when it concerns muslims and/or their apologists attacking jews, is just an interesting aside.

I asked you to point these people out Gandalf. So far they are a figment of your imagination.

And I called you out on your racism because you are a textbook case of mealy mouthed racism, and you are right here on this forum. You described them over a span of years variously as a mindless collective a treacherous warrior Jews, all in efforts to justify Muhammad's genocide. But when your own words are presented to you you reject them because (again, in your own words) it 'sounds' racist. You absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, but when all else failed, you fell back on racism because your religion compels you to come up with any excuse you can find to justify mass murder.

My 5 badass ex muslim women who leftists will never support because the morally bankrupt leftists support the bearded nutjobs who preach Islam.

1. Wafa Sultan

2.Maryam Namazie

3. Aayan Hirsi Ali

4. Taslima Nasrin

5.Rita Panahi- twitter.com/RitaPanahi

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 5:18pm:

I asked you to point these people out Gandalf. So far they are a figment of your imagination.

Sure, FD - one good example is constantly broad-stroking the entire muslim population as a monolithic hive mind of sinister conspirators out to deceive everyone, and branding individual's utterances with offensive slurs like "typical muslim response" and "thats what I'd expect a muslim to say" etc . More specific examples include singling out muslims as the only people who are mealy mouthed and "mince words" when being racist - obviously much worse and more sinister than regular non-muslim racism. Another one is taking a response you only ever heard from one muslim, that you consider representative of the "typical muslim" tricky, sinister double speak, and attributing it to "muslims" en masse. Oh, and nearly forgot - another example is stating as fact with no evidence whatsoever that government Islamic school funds went to terrorists - and then seemingly having no clue as to why the defense "well where else would it have gone?" and "lets see the receipts" is idiotic, bigoted - and yes racist.



freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 5:18pm:

You described them over a span of years variously as a mindless collective a treacherous warrior Jews,

 
Like a "typical muslim" I guess.

And as usual this is rubbish. 1. I described the arab tribes of the 7th century - of which the banu qurayza were but one as a "mindless collective" - in the sense that there was no real concept of the individual in society - everyone was subordinated to the tribe. This point I made abundantly clear in the original quote that you will always conveniently edit out when you requote it. and 2. as I have told you a hundred times at least - "treacherous jew" was your term, not mine. And I even made the point that the term would be racist and I would never say it.