Quote:

Last night on ABC's The Drum, Ali Kadri, spokesman for the Islamic Council of Queensland and the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, said his community was stuck with the choice of offending allies or siding with critics, and the result had been silence. "We are afraid if we come out with our opinion then the left may abandon us for going against their view As Mr Jaspal wrote for The Conversation: "Most Islamic scholars are in agreement that homosexuality is incompatible with Islamic theology. "They tend to draw on the story of Lot in the Koran [also in the Old Testament] which recounts the destruction of the tribe of Lot allegedly due to their engagement in homosexual acts as 'evidence' for God's condemnation of homosexuality. "Many scholars also cite the Ahadith [statements attributed to the Prophet Muhammed] that are condemnatory of homosexuality." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-31/same-sex-marriage-why-have-muslims-been-so-quiet-in-debate/8860486

The Saudis use beheading to cure homosexuals, Iran hangs homosexuals, the Islamic state throws homosexuals from tall buildings.

All muslims agree the death penalty is called for with homosexuals they only differ on what method is used to execute them.

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 6:58pm:

Quote: Last night on ABC's The Drum, Ali Kadri, spokesman for the Islamic Council of Queensland and the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, said his community was stuck with the choice of offending allies or siding with critics, and the result had been silence. "We are afraid if we come out with our opinion then the left may abandon us for going against their view As Mr Jaspal wrote for The Conversation: "Most Islamic scholars are in agreement that homosexuality is incompatible with Islamic theology. "They tend to draw on the story of Lot in the Koran [also in the Old Testament] which recounts the destruction of the tribe of Lot allegedly due to their engagement in homosexual acts as 'evidence' for God's condemnation of homosexuality. "Many scholars also cite the Ahadith [statements attributed to the Prophet Muhammed] that are condemnatory of homosexuality." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-31/same-sex-marriage-why-have-muslims-been-so-quiet-in-debate/8860486 The Saudis use beheading to cure homosexuals, Iran hangs homosexuals, the Islamic state throws homosexuals from tall buildings. All muslims agree the death penalty is called for with homosexuals they only differ on what method is used to execute them.

Typical Islam playing identity politics. The new political correctness that is sweeping the western world :(.  The leaders should just come out and have an honest debate, rather than be afraid of isolating the left and agreeing with the right.  Anyway, of course the regressive left would be aware that conservative muslims would hate the idea of gay marriage. It shouldn't come as complete shock that the same people they consistently defend for having  crazy medieval views would then not agree to gay marriage.  Although, the regressive left is not exactly of high intellect, as many posters on this forum prove each and every day. So I guess who really knows.

I'm encouraged to see that there is a progressive arm of muslims who want to see gay marriage legalised in Australia. Unfortunately it is a minority within the community, and only goes to show the problems plaguing the muslim world where the majority chooses the teachings of a warlord and some antiquated book as opposed to rational common sense about equality.

Quote:

More than 500 imams in landmark gay marriage protest More than 500 imams have joined forces to protest against David Cameron’s plans for gay marriage in an unprecedented intervention from the British Muslim community. Leaders representing tens of thousands of worshippers at mosques across the country, have signed a joint letter to The Sunday Telegraph accusing the Government of attacking “the cornerstone of family life” It is the first time that Muslim leaders have made a collective intervention on the issue and underlines the strength of feeling among ethnic minority voters. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10066730/More-than-500-imams-in-landmark-gay-marriage-protest.html

The muslim leaders in the UK didn't stay silent on gay marriage.

The first time more than 500 imams get together for a protest was it about death for apostates/blasphemers or Islamic terror or FGM or child brides or was it protesting about gay marriage.

One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common.

Quote:

Last night on ABC's The Drum, Ali Kadri, spokesman for the Islamic Council of Queensland and the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, said his community was stuck with the choice of offending allies or siding with critics, and the result had been silence. "We are afraid if we come out with our opinion then the left may abandon us for going against their view

Demonstrating, not that moslems believe in tolerance,        .....of the worldview of others.

Nor even, in the moslem choosing to truthfully and openly express his real views/opinions,      and thereby necessitating the moslem to make their/an argument, for the positions they 'defend' [in concealment].



But rather, that when confronted with something which he abhors [and, when he has no means-to-power to oppose], the moslem will choose to remain silent.

To conceal his intolerance [and opposition] to the openly stated views/opinions of others.

He is willing to wait for a time, when he may be able to impose his views/opinions upon the 'other'.




.




ALL MOSLEMS CLAIM TO CHERISH THE RIGHT OF FREEDOM OF RELIGION [i.e. THE FREEDOM, TO PRACTICE ISLAM].....

BUT MOSLEMS, THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, ARE SEEN TO DENY, EXACTLY THAT RIGHT OF FREEDOM OF RELIGION, TO OTHERS!

Even in a so-called liberal moslem nation like Malaysia.




Quote:

"Malaysia's Prime Minister: LGBTs, liberalism, and pluralism are enemies of Islam" "Last Malaysian Hindu temple in central Kuala Lumpur condemned, given five days to vacate" "Malaysian temple condemned, temple staff and devotees given 15 minutes to leave" "Malaysian government views LGBT community as a 'spreading problem' to be stopped" "Malaysian deputy prime minister: Islam not compatible with freedom, liberal thought" "Yet another Malaysian non-Muslim house of worship demolished" "Malaysian state holding seminar on "threat of Christianity" " "A message from Malaysia's king: "Muslims need to emulate Prophet Muhammad" "

http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/malaysia/


Q.
But why is it that the views      ABOVE     being expressed        BY MOSLEMS       within a nation like Malaysia, almost never make our nightly TV news reports ????

Gordon wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 7:22pm:

One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common.

yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop.

Gordon wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 7:22pm:

One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common.

I am neither left or right i am Centrist.

Every issue needs to be debated on pros and cons.

Family law recognises same sex couples they have just as many rights as straight couples in defacto relationships, with family law already recognising same sex couples there are no additional legal benefits from same sex couples getting married.

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 6:58pm:

All muslims agree the death penalty is called for with homosexuals they only differ on what method is used to execute them.

I don't. Do you agree that makes you wrong Baron?

Oh look, Baron forgot to quote the bits from his own article that prove him wrong:


Quote:

But the Muslim community's view is not unanimous.

Quote:

In a press release, Muslims for Marriage Equality spokesman Fahad Ali, former peer educator with the AIDS council of NSW, stated: "There is a diversity in belief and opinion on equal marriage within the Muslim community … there is a strong thread of egalitarianism and social justice within the Koran and we think that it is very applicable to the question of same-sex marriage."

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 7:42pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop.

Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building.

Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe?

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 6:58pm:

All muslims agree the death penalty is called for with homosexuals ...

That's complete nonsense.

You lost all credibility, right there.

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 8:55pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:58pm: All muslims agree the death penalty is called for with homosexuals ... That's complete nonsense. You lost all credibility, right there.

Baron had credibility?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 8:07pm:

Oh look, Baron forgot to quote the bits from his own article that prove him wrong: Quote: But the Muslim community's view is not unanimous. [quote]In a press release, Muslims for Marriage Equality spokesman Fahad Ali, former peer educator with the AIDS council of NSW, stated: "There is a diversity in belief and opinion on equal marriage within the Muslim community … there is a strong thread of egalitarianism and social justice within the Koran and we think that it is very applicable to the question of same-sex marriage."

[/quote]
yes, diversity.  3% are for, and 97% against.

It' OK to have a lisp, so long as it is not deliberate, but homosexual sex attracts the death penalty.


abu_rashid wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 7:12pm:

Quote: you don't mind so much that men have sex with each other Since it's a capital offense, I wouldn't say it's treated lightly at all. [quote]but you especially object to them talking in a gay way, having their own culture, and riding round on floats with their arse cheeks hanging out?

Islamically, someone who'd taken it this far would've apostasised and the Islamic ruling for apostasy would now apply to him. Talking is not part of this though, as some people have lisps and other speech impediments which cause them to talk like that. Whether it's hormone related or not, the speech in itself is not forbidden. However, if it's done intentionally to emulate women, then yes it's forbidden.[/quote]


abu_rashid wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2008 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008 at 1:36pm: Questionf for Abu and Malik: What is Islamic law regarding pedophilia and homosexuality? Does it accept higher societal standards or tolerance? Would you support different standards to what Islam teaches you? Can something be wrong or immoral, even if the Koran does not describe it as such? Both are considered illegal practises and are capital offenses under Islamic law. Quote: Would you support different standards to what Islam teaches you? I believe in Islam, so no I don't support different standards. However, since we do not live under an Islamic government, we must live by different laws. The two should not be confused. Islam prohibits vigilantism, and we definitely do not condone attempting to clandestinely implement our law in a non-Islamic state. This is a matter that is often confused and misconstrued in the media. [quote]Can something be wrong or immoral, even if the Koran does not describe it as such?

The Qur'an does not detail every little thing. It is an exposition of all things, but not in minute detail. The Sunnah, collections of recorded speech and eyewitness reocrds of Muhammad's (Pbuh) actions is by far the larger source of material to be used in Islamic jurisprudence.

As I mentioned previously, in case a specific matter is not detailed in the Qur'an or Sunnah, then we have the process of ijtihad to determine it.[/quote]

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 8:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe?

Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite.  I mean look at how you react to FGM in the muslim world, constantly telling us how small the population inflicted is in comparison to the total muslim population, because apparently issues only matter after a certain percentage threshold.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 8:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:07pm: Oh look, Baron forgot to quote the bits from his own article that prove him wrong: Quote: But the Muslim community's view is not unanimous. [quote]In a press release, Muslims for Marriage Equality spokesman Fahad Ali, former peer educator with the AIDS council of NSW, stated: "There is a diversity in belief and opinion on equal marriage within the Muslim community … there is a strong thread of egalitarianism and social justice within the Koran and we think that it is very applicable to the question of same-sex marriage."

yes, diversity.  3% are for, and 97% against.[/quote]

So you agree Baron was wrong then?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:03pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:58pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:07pm: Oh look, Baron forgot to quote the bits from his own article that prove him wrong: Quote: But the Muslim community's view is not unanimous. [quote]In a press release, Muslims for Marriage Equality spokesman Fahad Ali, former peer educator with the AIDS council of NSW, stated: "There is a diversity in belief and opinion on equal marriage within the Muslim community … there is a strong thread of egalitarianism and social justice within the Koran and we think that it is very applicable to the question of same-sex marriage." yes, diversity.  3% are for, and 97% against.

So you agree Baron was wrong then?

[/quote]
On the statement of 'All'?  Yes, definitely.

is that what's important to you? How do you feel about the fact that the majority of the muslim world world doesn't agree with your position on homosexuality, and their belief comes from yet again their understanding of their little antiquated book and the life of their warlord?  Let's not worry about that, let's instead worry that Baron said 'All' rather than 'majority'.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:01pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite.

Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:06pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing?

every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:07pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:06pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing? every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this.

Then surely you can provide an example. Thanks.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:08pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:07pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:06pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing? every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this. Then surely you can provide an example. Thanks.

well we can start with how the entire muslims and feminism thread got started by freediver. You seem to ignore completely the plight of women in the muslim world, but if the women of the western world were under the same you would be going insane right now (And rightfully so).  instead you tell us of how you admire of the very smlal minute community of muslim women who try and pretend that they can be muslim and feminists as one.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:11pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:08pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:07pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:06pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing? every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this. Then surely you can provide an example. Thanks. well we can start with how the entire muslims and feminism thread got started by freediver. You seem to ignore completely the plight of women in the muslim world, but if the women of the western world were under the same you would be going insane right now (And rightfully so).  instead you tell us of how you admire of the very smlal minute community of muslim women who try and pretend that they can be muslim and feminists as one.

I most certainly do not. I write letters; sign petitions; join groups; lobby politicians; disseminate information; speak for these woman on many platforms.

On this particular platform, everyone is over-focussed on hanging poo on Muslims that the only reflection on these women is emotional leverage. What do you want me to do? Join in? Can't, sorry. I'll call you all on it instead.

Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done. I like to talk about those people. I think, considering how much everyone hates everything Muslim on here they would be pleased to know it isn't all the way they think it is.

They're not. You're not.

So you feed the bad and diminish the good. Genius.

Mothra is very active in that thread. She is justifying her inability to respond to the topic by saying it is not fun.


Quote:

Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done.

Stopping the newly resurgent Islamic sex slave industry? How mothra? Writing letters?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:18pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:11pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:08pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:07pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:06pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing? every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this. Then surely you can provide an example. Thanks. well we can start with how the entire muslims and feminism thread got started by freediver. You seem to ignore completely the plight of women in the muslim world, but if the women of the western world were under the same you would be going insane right now (And rightfully so).  instead you tell us of how you admire of the very smlal minute community of muslim women who try and pretend that they can be muslim and feminists as one. I most certainly do not. I write letters; sign petitions; join groups; lobby politicians; disseminate information; speak for these woman on many platforms. On this particular platform, everyone is over-focussed on hanging poo on Muslims that the only reflection on these women is emotional leverage. What do you want me to do? Join in? Can't, sorry. I'll call you all on it instead. Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done. I like to talk about those people. I think, considering how much everyone hates everything Muslim on here they would be pleased to know it isn't all the way they think it is. They're not. You're not. So you feed the bad and diminish the good. Genius.

Oh? Women aren't being stoned to deeath for being raped then? Awesome, when did that change?

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:27pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:18pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:11pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:08pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:07pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:06pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing? every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this. Then surely you can provide an example. Thanks. well we can start with how the entire muslims and feminism thread got started by freediver. You seem to ignore completely the plight of women in the muslim world, but if the women of the western world were under the same you would be going insane right now (And rightfully so).  instead you tell us of how you admire of the very smlal minute community of muslim women who try and pretend that they can be muslim and feminists as one. I most certainly do not. I write letters; sign petitions; join groups; lobby politicians; disseminate information; speak for these woman on many platforms. On this particular platform, everyone is over-focussed on hanging poo on Muslims that the only reflection on these women is emotional leverage. What do you want me to do? Join in? Can't, sorry. I'll call you all on it instead. Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done. I like to talk about those people. I think, considering how much everyone hates everything Muslim on here they would be pleased to know it isn't all the way they think it is. They're not. You're not. So you feed the bad and diminish the good. Genius. Oh? Women aren't being stoned to deeath for being raped then? Awesome, when did that change?

Now where did i say that? Honestly ...  ::)

freediver wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:19pm:

Mothra is very active in that thread. She is justifying her inability to respond to the topic by saying it is not fun. Quote: Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done. Stopping the newly resurgent Islamic sex slave industry? How mothra? Writing letters?

No FD. I said you were not fun. You're not. You're a pathological liar and perhaps the worst pedant i have ever encountered.

And you absolutely never answer questions to allow people to define the incessant questions you ask them ... leaving them either answering as you want or tapdancing like jellyfish.

It's just really, really boring.

I don't want to play with you.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:29pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:27pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:18pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:11pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:08pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:07pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:06pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:01pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:09pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:42pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:22pm: One day Muslims and the hard right will work out they actually have a lot in common. yes, hilarious how the regressive left is physically violent with one group, and all motherly and loving with the other. And yet, both would throw a homosexual off a rooftop. Ummm, i'm pretty sure that most of the people that get violent with Nazis and their ilk would get violent over someone being thrown off a building. Or do you expect them just to tackle random Muslims in the street? Grab a hijab maybe? Oh I'm not so sure. We know that when it comes to regressives, there is one opinion when it comes to the majority, but when it's a minority they quickly stutter and shy away. Don't get me wrong, on most liberal issues that regressives fight for I agree. I just wish they were consistent, but for some reason the colour of someone's skin, or their belief in a certain type of religion, somehow makes regressives react differently.  Look at you for example - I do admire how you fight for women's rights for white folk. But the moment it's about the Muslim population and all of sudden you're all like, 'The niqab is a powerful feminist statement' and what not.  Just a hypocrite. Perhaps you would like to produce the evidence of me ever saying such a thing? every day you write on this forum you demonstrate this. Then surely you can provide an example. Thanks. well we can start with how the entire muslims and feminism thread got started by freediver. You seem to ignore completely the plight of women in the muslim world, but if the women of the western world were under the same you would be going insane right now (And rightfully so).  instead you tell us of how you admire of the very smlal minute community of muslim women who try and pretend that they can be muslim and feminists as one. I most certainly do not. I write letters; sign petitions; join groups; lobby politicians; disseminate information; speak for these woman on many platforms. On this particular platform, everyone is over-focussed on hanging poo on Muslims that the only reflection on these women is emotional leverage. What do you want me to do? Join in? Can't, sorry. I'll call you all on it instead. Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done. I like to talk about those people. I think, considering how much everyone hates everything Muslim on here they would be pleased to know it isn't all the way they think it is. They're not. You're not. So you feed the bad and diminish the good. Genius. Oh? Women aren't being stoned to deeath for being raped then? Awesome, when did that change? Now where did i say that? Honestly ...  ::)

Is this the part of Islam that you love?

And where did i say i loved Islam?

Alevine, you're being very, very silly.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:33pm:

And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly.

I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies.

Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright?

Look, have you been studying FD or something?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:37pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something?

You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:19pm: Mothra is very active in that thread. She is justifying her inability to respond to the topic by saying it is not fun. Quote: Because while you're all frothing at the mouth about everything Muslim, people are getting poo done. Stopping the newly resurgent Islamic sex slave industry? How mothra? Writing letters? No FD. I said you were not fun. You're not. You're a pathological liar and perhaps the worst pedant i have ever encountered. And you absolutely never answer questions to allow people to define the incessant questions you ask them ... leaving them either answering as you want or tapdancing like jellyfish. It's just really, really boring. I don't want to play with you.

Have you written a sternly worded letter to your local MP complaining about ISIS raping women en masse?

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:39pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good?

Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason?

How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though.

How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims.

We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out.

Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:45pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good? Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though. How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims. We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out. Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit.

Muslims kill those sorts of people very day. Some get thrown off tall buildings.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:45pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good? Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though. How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims. We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out. Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit.

Why not ME? Nothing good there?

Ok, what's good about Islam in Pakistan?  What good has Islam brought Pakistani people?

I also hope you're not suggesting a girl being shot for trying to learn and then fleeing to Britain is a good aspect is Islam?  Malala is a reformist, and while I don't know her entire Muslim views, her and attempts to bring awareness about the lack of education of girls in Islam is fantastic. But malala is a  minority in the Islamic world, and because of people like you who don't wish to speak about the actual problems, her fight is being lost to the rise of conservative Islam.  But keep going, tell us how evil we all are for concentrating on the fcked up aspects of Islam.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:59pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:45pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good? Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though. How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims. We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out. Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit. Why not ME? Nothing good there? Ok, what's good about Islam in Pakistan?  What good has Islam brought Pakistani people? I also hope you're not suggesting a girl being shot for trying to learn and then fleeing to Britain is a good aspect is Islam?  Malala is a reformist, and while I don't know her entire Muslim views, her and attempts to bring awareness about the lack of education of girls in Islam is fantastic. But malala is a  minority in the Islamic world, and because of people like you who don't wish to speak about the actual problems, her fight is being lost to the rise of conservative Islam.  But keep going, tell us how evil we all are for concentrating on the fcked up aspects of Islam.

Because Alevine, btw thanks for reminding me that Malala was shot. It's important to bring that up every time her name is mentioned. Muslims did it after all. Probably because the Quran told them to, right?

Anyway ... because you're applying your condemnation to Islam that should rightfully rest with repressive regimes. There's loads of them you know. There's quite alot in the Middle East, largely because it's been fiddled about with so much for so long by the rest of the world. There's just too many millions of perfectly lovely Muslims to think the problems lie there.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:05pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:59pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:45pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good? Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though. How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims. We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out. Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit. Why not ME? Nothing good there? Ok, what's good about Islam in Pakistan?  What good has Islam brought Pakistani people? I also hope you're not suggesting a girl being shot for trying to learn and then fleeing to Britain is a good aspect is Islam?  Malala is a reformist, and while I don't know her entire Muslim views, her and attempts to bring awareness about the lack of education of girls in Islam is fantastic. But malala is a  minority in the Islamic world, and because of people like you who don't wish to speak about the actual problems, her fight is being lost to the rise of conservative Islam.  But keep going, tell us how evil we all are for concentrating on the fcked up aspects of Islam. Because Alevine, btw thanks for reminding me that Malala was shot. It's important to bring that up every time her name is mentioned. Muslims did it after all. Probably because the Quran told them to, right? Anyway ... because you're applying your condemnation to Islam that should rightfully rest with repressive regimes. There's loads of them you know. There's quite alot in the Middle East, largely because it's been fiddled about with so much for so long by the rest of the world. There's just too many millions of perfectly lovely Muslims to think the problems lie there.

Ok and the repressive regimes use what to repress? Oh yes. Islam.  Go figure.  And majority of Muslim people in ME agree with death penalty for apostasy because of ***drum roll*** Islam.  And most are against homosexuality because of *** drum roll*** Islam.

Islam drives behaviour. And so far, the majority of what we witness as a result of people's behaviour, is not very pretty. So what's to blame?

And yes, definitely al qeda takes their instructions from their reading of the Quran. Or do you think their behaviour is driven by a lack of fried chicken in the region or something?  Perhaps it was cleopatra?  Ask karnal.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:11pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:59pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:45pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good? Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though. How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims. We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out. Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit. Why not ME? Nothing good there? Ok, what's good about Islam in Pakistan?  What good has Islam brought Pakistani people? I also hope you're not suggesting a girl being shot for trying to learn and then fleeing to Britain is a good aspect is Islam?  Malala is a reformist, and while I don't know her entire Muslim views, her and attempts to bring awareness about the lack of education of girls in Islam is fantastic. But malala is a  minority in the Islamic world, and because of people like you who don't wish to speak about the actual problems, her fight is being lost to the rise of conservative Islam.  But keep going, tell us how evil we all are for concentrating on the fcked up aspects of Islam. Because Alevine, btw thanks for reminding me that Malala was shot. It's important to bring that up every time her name is mentioned. Muslims did it after all. Probably because the Quran told them to, right? Anyway ... because you're applying your condemnation to Islam that should rightfully rest with repressive regimes. There's loads of them you know. There's quite alot in the Middle East, largely because it's been fiddled about with so much for so long by the rest of the world. There's just too many millions of perfectly lovely Muslims to think the problems lie there. Ok and the repressive regimes use what to repress? Oh yes. Islam.  Go figure.  And majority of Muslim people in ME agree with death penalty for apostasy because of ***drum roll*** Islam.  And most are against homosexuality because of *** drum roll*** Islam. Islam drives behaviour. And so far, the majority of what we witness as a result of people's behaviour, is not very pretty. So what's to blame? And yes, definitely al qeda takes their instructions from their reading of the Quran. Or do you think their behaviour is driven by a lack of fried chicken in the region or something?  Perhaps it was cleopatra?  Ask karnal.

Dunno why you're giving those arseholes legitimacy.

I'll listen to the people i respect tell me about what Islam means to them.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:14pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:11pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:59pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:45pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:35pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm: And where did i say i loved Islam? Alevine, you're being very, very silly. I never said you loved Islam. I asked what parts of Islam you love. You said there are good things - I'd like to know what they are. And more specifically, for feminists, what are the good parts of Islam, in comparison to ... say... a secular life where you don't believe in magical fairies. Thus implying i love parts of Islam, rrrrrrrrrright? Look, have you been studying FD or something? You said that I don't see the good things of being a Muslim. It's a figure of speech, mothra. Geez, are you playing semantics now?  What parts are good? Pick... any country in the Middle East and tel me what parts of wing a Muslim are good? Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though. How about all of the activists, agitators, law-breakers, tradition bending, ethical Muslims in the ME? You know they're pretty awesome people, even though they're Muslims. We don't talk about them though do we. If we try, we get BigOl posting the picture of the woman dying brutally and the rest of you chiming in with all of the worst case scenarios to drown us out. Muslim = Follower of Islam ... innit. Why not ME? Nothing good there? Ok, what's good about Islam in Pakistan?  What good has Islam brought Pakistani people? I also hope you're not suggesting a girl being shot for trying to learn and then fleeing to Britain is a good aspect is Islam?  Malala is a reformist, and while I don't know her entire Muslim views, her and attempts to bring awareness about the lack of education of girls in Islam is fantastic. But malala is a  minority in the Islamic world, and because of people like you who don't wish to speak about the actual problems, her fight is being lost to the rise of conservative Islam.  But keep going, tell us how evil we all are for concentrating on the fcked up aspects of Islam. Because Alevine, btw thanks for reminding me that Malala was shot. It's important to bring that up every time her name is mentioned. Muslims did it after all. Probably because the Quran told them to, right? Anyway ... because you're applying your condemnation to Islam that should rightfully rest with repressive regimes. There's loads of them you know. There's quite alot in the Middle East, largely because it's been fiddled about with so much for so long by the rest of the world. There's just too many millions of perfectly lovely Muslims to think the problems lie there. Ok and the repressive regimes use what to repress? Oh yes. Islam.  Go figure.  And majority of Muslim people in ME agree with death penalty for apostasy because of ***drum roll*** Islam.  And most are against homosexuality because of *** drum roll*** Islam. Islam drives behaviour. And so far, the majority of what we witness as a result of people's behaviour, is not very pretty. So what's to blame? And yes, definitely al qeda takes their instructions from their reading of the Quran. Or do you think their behaviour is driven by a lack of fried chicken in the region or something?  Perhaps it was cleopatra?  Ask karnal. Dunno why you're giving those arseholes legitimacy. I'll listen to the people i respect tell me about what Islam means to them.

And in doing so you continue to stick your head in the sand and contribute to practices that include stoning of women for being raped.

Why are you so afraid to listen to people who perform the act when they tell you why they've performed the act? If al qeda says the Quran told them to do something, why would you think they aren't telling the truth? It's delusional to tell someone they are wrong when they tell you in explicit terms why they do what they do.

Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong.

I like their version better.

Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore.

And my head's not in the sand at all. I'd wager i know considerably more about women's rights in Middle Eastern countries than you.

I would love the chance to discuss them sensibly on here. Alas, this isn't the forum for that.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:21pm:

Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore.

How pretty. If I HAD to choose a version I prefer Gandalf's too. But the problem is it hasn't got the legitimacy in the Muslim world that he holds to it.  And ignoring this, and the versions that are legitimised currently only seeks to continue to problem.  I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:24pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:21pm: Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore. How pretty. I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up.

Same tactics. Again.

It's really boring, Alevine.

Do you have any idea how many women's lives i've campaigned to save? Spare me your self-righteous superiority, because you're more bigoted than me.

Get back to me when you want to talk about those women in other other way than as a pawn in your game.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:22pm:

And my head's not in the sand at all. I'd wager i know considerably more about women's rights in Middle Eastern countries than you. I would love the chance to discuss them sensibly on here. Alas, this isn't the forum for that.

Mothra you may know all about women rights In The Middle East, but the problem is you do little to change it with your constant silence, and attacking people who happen to raise concerns about it.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:28pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:24pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:21pm: Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore. How pretty. I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up. Same tactics. Again. it's really boring, Alevine. Do you have any idea how many women's lives i've campaigned to save? Spare me your self-righteous superiority, because your more bigoted than me. Get back to me when you want to talk about those women in other other way than as a pawn in your game.

How am I bigoted?

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:28pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:22pm: And my head's not in the sand at all. I'd wager i know considerably more about women's rights in Middle Eastern countries than you. I would love the chance to discuss them sensibly on here. Alas, this isn't the forum for that. Mothra you may know all about women rights In The Middle East, but the problem is you do little to change it with your constant silence, and attacking people who happen to raise concerns about it.

You're really not getting it, are you.

You don't want to represent these women. You want to hang poo on Islam and those women are a vehicle for you ... like every other Islamophobe on this forum.

It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:28pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:24pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:21pm: Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore. How pretty. I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up. Same tactics. Again. it's really boring, Alevine. Do you have any idea how many women's lives i've campaigned to save? Spare me your self-righteous superiority, because your more bigoted than me. Get back to me when you want to talk about those women in other other way than as a pawn in your game. How am I bigoted?

This is a gee up, yeah?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:30pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:22pm: And my head's not in the sand at all. I'd wager i know considerably more about women's rights in Middle Eastern countries than you. I would love the chance to discuss them sensibly on here. Alas, this isn't the forum for that. Mothra you may know all about women rights In The Middle East, but the problem is you do little to change it with your constant silence, and attacking people who happen to raise concerns about it. You're really not getting it, are you. You don't want to represent these women. You want to hang poo on Islam and those women are a vehicle for you ... like every other Islamophobe on this forum. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you.

No, I hang poo on Islam because Islam is the vehicle being used against these women and their rights. You're just too conflicted to comprehend. Not sure what you're conflicted about, actually, given you're not Muslim. Is it a skin colour thing, mothra?  If these were white women would you care more?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:31pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:24pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:21pm: Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore. How pretty. I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up. Same tactics. Again. it's really boring, Alevine. Do you have any idea how many women's lives i've campaigned to save? Spare me your self-righteous superiority, because your more bigoted than me. Get back to me when you want to talk about those women in other other way than as a pawn in your game. How am I bigoted? This is a gee up, yeah?

You made the claim, I'd appreciate some sort of explaination.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:33pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:30pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:22pm: And my head's not in the sand at all. I'd wager i know considerably more about women's rights in Middle Eastern countries than you. I would love the chance to discuss them sensibly on here. Alas, this isn't the forum for that. Mothra you may know all about women rights In The Middle East, but the problem is you do little to change it with your constant silence, and attacking people who happen to raise concerns about it. You're really not getting it, are you. You don't want to represent these women. You want to hang poo on Islam and those women are a vehicle for you ... like every other Islamophobe on this forum. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you. No, I hang poo on Islam because Islam is the vehicle being used against these women and their rights. You're just too conflicted to comprehend. Not sure what you're conflicted about, actually, given you're not Muslim. Is it a skin colour thing, mothra?  If these were white women would you care more?

Yet so many who practice Islam neither do those things or condone those things being done. They say none of that is in the Quran.

And other demographics do all of those things .. so you're obviously focusing on the wrong common denominator.

But honestly, try telling you lot that.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:34pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:31pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:24pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:21pm: Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore. How pretty. I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up. Same tactics. Again. it's really boring, Alevine. Do you have any idea how many women's lives i've campaigned to save? Spare me your self-righteous superiority, because your more bigoted than me. Get back to me when you want to talk about those women in other other way than as a pawn in your game. How am I bigoted? This is a gee up, yeah? You made the claim, I'd appreciate some sort of explaination.

You don't consider that just maybe, your opinions on Islam are a little bigoted? Or at least your expressions of those opinions?

For instance, you are being quite bigoted in this thread. Have you not noticed?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:38pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:34pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:31pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:28pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:24pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:21pm: Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore. How pretty. I'm sure the woman being stoned to death after a gang tape appreciates you like the other version better.  Keep ignoring the version she's facing, let's see how many more can be killed and tortured before you wake up. Same tactics. Again. it's really boring, Alevine. Do you have any idea how many women's lives i've campaigned to save? Spare me your self-righteous superiority, because your more bigoted than me. Get back to me when you want to talk about those women in other other way than as a pawn in your game. How am I bigoted? This is a gee up, yeah? You made the claim, I'd appreciate some sort of explaination. You don't consider that just maybe, your opinions on Islam are a little bigoted? Or at least your expressions of those opinions? For instance, you are being quite bigoted in this thread. Have you not noticed?

How so? Example it if you're finding it difficult to explain.

Well, acting surprised that there might be some good things about Islam and requesting examples as evidence was a bit bigoted, wouldn't you say?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:44pm:

Well, acting surprised that there might be some good things about Islam and requesting examples as evidence was a bit bigoted, wouldn't you say?

about the current state of Islam?  I wasn't surprised that there would be some good, as there is some good in everything (even fascism brings together people to a common cause so you can say that's good), I'm surprised you would choose to concentrate on the good when there is so much bad. And speaking of the good, have you got examples that show Malala, for instance, advocates because of the behaviour she learnt through Islam?  Please share.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:49pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:44pm: Well, acting surprised that there might be some good things about Islam and requesting examples as evidence was a bit bigoted, wouldn't you say? about the current state of Islam?  I wasn't surprised that there would be some good, as there is some good in everything (even fascism brings together people to a common cause so you can say that's good), I'm surprised you would choose to concentrate on the good when there is so much bad. And speaking of the good, have you got examples that show Malala, for instance, advocates because of the behaviour she learnt through Islam?  Please share.

Oh good. We've played the card that compares Islam to oppressive systems of government.

Not at all bigoted.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:53pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:49pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:44pm: Well, acting surprised that there might be some good things about Islam and requesting examples as evidence was a bit bigoted, wouldn't you say? about the current state of Islam?  I wasn't surprised that there would be some good, as there is some good in everything (even fascism brings together people to a common cause so you can say that's good), I'm surprised you would choose to concentrate on the good when there is so much bad. And speaking of the good, have you got examples that show Malala, for instance, advocates because of the behaviour she learnt through Islam?  Please share. Oh good. We've played the card that compares Islam to oppressive systems of government. Not at all bigoted.

Did I compare? I simply said there is good in everything, but it doesn't mean the OVERALL thing is good.  Geez, you're really going bonkers today, mothra.

On a side note though, given you've raised it, I don't actually see that much difference between a repressive religion and a repressive political system. I know it is forbidden amongst regressives to talk about repressive religions (at least when it comes to Islam), but none the less the outcome to people is the same.  As demonstrated time and again by  things such as women being stoned to death for being gangraped. Or things like the Sunni vs Shiite butchery.

Examples of me being bigoted, please.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:59pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:53pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:49pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:44pm: Well, acting surprised that there might be some good things about Islam and requesting examples as evidence was a bit bigoted, wouldn't you say? about the current state of Islam?  I wasn't surprised that there would be some good, as there is some good in everything (even fascism brings together people to a common cause so you can say that's good), I'm surprised you would choose to concentrate on the good when there is so much bad. And speaking of the good, have you got examples that show Malala, for instance, advocates because of the behaviour she learnt through Islam?  Please share. Oh good. We've played the card that compares Islam to oppressive systems of government. Not at all bigoted. Did I compare? I simply said there is good in everything, but it doesn't mean the OVERALL thing is good.  Geez, you're really going bonkers today, mothra. On a side note though, given you've raised it, I don't actually see that much difference between a repressive religion and a repressive political system. I know it is forbidden amongst regressives to talk about repressive religions (at least when it comes to Islam), but none the less the outcome to people is the same.  As demonstrated time and again by  things such as women being stoned to death for being gangraped. Or things like the Sunni vs Shiite butchery. Examples of me being bigoted, please.

You're not getting it, Alevine. I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion.

I don't know how many ways i can say it.

Or how many times.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 8:03pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:58pm: All muslims agree the death penalty is called for with homosexuals they only differ on what method is used to execute them. I don't. Do you agree that makes you wrong Baron?

Your views would be in spite of Islamic teaching not because of Islamic teaching.  :)

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 8:07pm:

Oh look, Baron forgot to quote the bits from his own article that prove him wrong: Quote: But the Muslim community's view is not unanimous. [quote]In a press release, Muslims for Marriage Equality spokesman Fahad Ali, former peer educator with the AIDS council of NSW, stated: "There is a diversity in belief and opinion on equal marriage within the Muslim community … there is a strong thread of egalitarianism and social justice within the Koran and we think that it is very applicable to the question of same-sex marriage."

[/quote]

He also said this Gandalf, what did he mean by this?


Quote:

We are afraid if we come out with our opinion then the left may abandon us for going against their view

Why would the left abandon muslims if they were pro gay marriage? :)

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 9:45pm:

Oh. So we're quantifying Muslims by the ME? Any particular reason? How about Pakistan? How about Malala Yousafzai? She seems to practice a very nice form of Islam. So does Gandalf. He's not from the Middle East though.

We could look at muslims in Somalia with Al Shaabab they are similar to al Qaeda and the Islamic state.
Aayan Hirsi Ali comes from there yet for some reason the feminists ignore ex muslim women who were victims of FGM and speak the truth about Islam.

We could look at the muslims in Nigeria with Boko Haram, did they kidnap hundreds of schoolgirls and force them to marry the mujahideen, why are the pseudo feminists silent about Boko haram?

Shirin Ebadi won a Nobel prize why did she flee from Iran when she supported the Islamic revolution in 1979?

As for Malala have you seen the honour killings in Pakistan which is 99% muslim?
She proves the saying those who flee the political, social,economic and moral failures of Islamic countries still come with Islam because they fail to recognise it is Islam that explains these political,social,economic and moral failures

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:04pm:

You're not getting it, Alevine. I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion. I don't know how many ways i can say it. Or how many times.

Sure, all religions are repressive. But not to the same calibre.  Conservative islam is growing, and I'd say that's the one we should prioritise our concern with.  And whether one is or isn't repressed is unfortunately not always up to the person being repressed to decide.  You should read 'on tyranny' by timothy snyder.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:28pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:04pm: You're not getting it, Alevine. I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion. I don't know how many ways i can say it. Or how many times. Sure, all religions are repressive. But not to the same calibre.  Conservative islam is growing, and I'd say that's the one we should prioritise our concern with.  And whether one is or isn't repressed is unfortunately not always up to the person being repressed to decide.  You should read 'on tyranny' by timothy snyder.

Meh. Islamic reform is growing too. In all sorts of interesting places.

When you seek to represent Islam by the worst case scenarios, you negate all that is peaceful too.

If you lot would stop doing that, we could actually discuss the issues.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:51pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:04pm: You're not getting it, Alevine. I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion. I don't know how many ways i can say it. Or how many times. Sure, all religions are repressive. But not to the same calibre.  Conservative islam is growing, and I'd say that's the one we should prioritise our concern with.  And whether one is or isn't repressed is unfortunately not always up to the person being repressed to decide.  You should read 'on tyranny' by timothy snyder. Meh. Islamic reform is growing too. In all sorts of interesting places. When you seek to represent Islam by the worst case scenarios, you negate all that is peaceful too. If you lot would stop doing that, we could actually discuss the issues.

Not at all. I seek to represent islam by the worst case scenarios because they are the common case scenarios.


And the next time a woman is gangraped and then stoned I'll just tell her mothra says, 'meh'.

And you're right, reform is happening in Islam. By 2057, women may be allowed to drive ;)

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:53pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:51pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:04pm: You're not getting it, Alevine. I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion. I don't know how many ways i can say it. Or how many times. Sure, all religions are repressive. But not to the same calibre.  Conservative islam is growing, and I'd say that's the one we should prioritise our concern with.  And whether one is or isn't repressed is unfortunately not always up to the person being repressed to decide.  You should read 'on tyranny' by timothy snyder. Meh. Islamic reform is growing too. In all sorts of interesting places. When you seek to represent Islam by the worst case scenarios, you negate all that is peaceful too. If you lot would stop doing that, we could actually discuss the issues. Not at all. I seek to represent islam by the worst case scenarios because they are the common case scenarios. And the next time a woman is gangraped and then stoned I'll just tell her mothra says, 'meh'.

Same tactics. Can't you try a little harder?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:54pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:53pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:51pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:28pm: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:04pm: You're not getting it, Alevine. I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion. I don't know how many ways i can say it. Or how many times. Sure, all religions are repressive. But not to the same calibre.  Conservative islam is growing, and I'd say that's the one we should prioritise our concern with.  And whether one is or isn't repressed is unfortunately not always up to the person being repressed to decide.  You should read 'on tyranny' by timothy snyder. Meh. Islamic reform is growing too. In all sorts of interesting places. When you seek to represent Islam by the worst case scenarios, you negate all that is peaceful too. If you lot would stop doing that, we could actually discuss the issues. Not at all. I seek to represent islam by the worst case scenarios because they are the common case scenarios. And the next time a woman is gangraped and then stoned I'll just tell her mothra says, 'meh'. Same tactics. Can't you try a little harder?

with you it's become obvious it's kind of pointless given how oblivious you are to the harm you're doing.

You have been studying FD, haven't you.

This is beneath you, Alevine.

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:56pm:

You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine.

Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments. 

I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:05am:

mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:56pm: You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine. Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments.  I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither.

What is my "bonkers" opinion on the "state of Islam" Alevine?

It seems that most of our discussion has been you arguing with me about things you've made up that i've said.

Which is very much like what FD does.

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:09am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:05am: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:56pm: You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine. Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments.  I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither. What is my "bonkers" opinion on the "state of Islam" Alevine? It seems that most of our discussion has been you arguing with me about things you've made up that i've said. Which is very much like what FD does.

Your bonkers opinion is that while there is 'some' bad in islam, there is plenty of good so let's concentrate on the good because apparently that will somehow eradicate the bad.  So each time a woman gets gang raped and stoned to death, I guess by ignoring this and instead thinking about some westernised muslim woman claiming that islam is feminist, behind a burqa she'll claim she wears freely of course, we will make everything a lot better.

Basically you just want some blinkers around your eyes. Not sure why you afford Islam so much patience.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:15am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:09am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:05am: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:56pm: You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine. Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments.  I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither. What is my "bonkers" opinion on the "state of Islam" Alevine? It seems that most of our discussion has been you arguing with me about things you've made up that i've said. Which is very much like what FD does. Your bonkers opinion is that while there is 'some' bad in islam, there is plenty of good so let's concentrate on the good because apparently that will somehow eradicate the bad.  So each time a woman gets gang raped and stoned to death, I guess by ignoring this and instead thinking about some westernised muslim woman claiming that islam is feminist, behind a burqa she'll claim she wears freely of course, we will make everything a lot better. Basically you just want some blinkers around your eyes. Not sure why you afford Islam so much patience.

I never said that. Go back and read what i said again.

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:16am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:15am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:09am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:05am: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:56pm: You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine. Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments.  I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither. What is my "bonkers" opinion on the "state of Islam" Alevine? It seems that most of our discussion has been you arguing with me about things you've made up that i've said. Which is very much like what FD does. Your bonkers opinion is that while there is 'some' bad in islam, there is plenty of good so let's concentrate on the good because apparently that will somehow eradicate the bad.  So each time a woman gets gang raped and stoned to death, I guess by ignoring this and instead thinking about some westernised muslim woman claiming that islam is feminist, behind a burqa she'll claim she wears freely of course, we will make everything a lot better. Basically you just want some blinkers around your eyes. Not sure why you afford Islam so much patience. I never said that. Go back and read what i said again.

You don't need to say it, you demonstrate it with everything else you say.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:20am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:16am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:15am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:09am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:05am: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:56pm: You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine. Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments.  I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither. What is my "bonkers" opinion on the "state of Islam" Alevine? It seems that most of our discussion has been you arguing with me about things you've made up that i've said. Which is very much like what FD does. Your bonkers opinion is that while there is 'some' bad in islam, there is plenty of good so let's concentrate on the good because apparently that will somehow eradicate the bad.  So each time a woman gets gang raped and stoned to death, I guess by ignoring this and instead thinking about some westernised muslim woman claiming that islam is feminist, behind a burqa she'll claim she wears freely of course, we will make everything a lot better. Basically you just want some blinkers around your eyes. Not sure why you afford Islam so much patience. I never said that. Go back and read what i said again. You don't need to say it, you demonstrate it with everything else you say.

Tell me Alevine, at which point tonight in our conversation was there a point in which we could sensibly discuss women's rights in parts of the Middle East?

I spent most of it saying "i didn't say that" and the rest of the time trying to calmly explain to you why i prefer to use the descriptor "repressive regime" over "Muslim".

Do you honestly think there was a point which was conducive to a constructive dialogue?

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:25am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:20am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:16am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:15am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:09am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:05am: mothra wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 11:56pm: You have been studying FD, haven't you. This is beneath you, Alevine. Have you ever considered that perahaps freediver is not the issue? I mean, we jump on this forum, you give us your absolute bonkers opinion on the state of islam, we demonstrate quite easily how you're not thinking adequately about the issues, you then progress to call us islamophobic, bigoted, etc and argue strawman arguments.  I really do wish you would stop calling yourself a feminist and a progressive. You are neither. What is my "bonkers" opinion on the "state of Islam" Alevine? It seems that most of our discussion has been you arguing with me about things you've made up that i've said. Which is very much like what FD does. Your bonkers opinion is that while there is 'some' bad in islam, there is plenty of good so let's concentrate on the good because apparently that will somehow eradicate the bad.  So each time a woman gets gang raped and stoned to death, I guess by ignoring this and instead thinking about some westernised muslim woman claiming that islam is feminist, behind a burqa she'll claim she wears freely of course, we will make everything a lot better. Basically you just want some blinkers around your eyes. Not sure why you afford Islam so much patience. I never said that. Go back and read what i said again. You don't need to say it, you demonstrate it with everything else you say. Tell me Alevine, at which point tonight in our conversation was there a point in which we could sensibly discuss women's rights in parts of the Middle East? I spent most of it saying "i didn't say that" and the rest of the time trying to calmly explain to you why i prefer to use the descriptor "repressive regime" over "Muslim". Do you honestly think there was a point which was conducive to a constructive dialogue?

I don't really think it's possible to have a constructive dialogue with someone who jumps on using words like bigoted, only to then not even explain why they did so.

And I offered to discuss Middle East, it was you who then instead decided to strawman and suggest I don't consider any other part of the world Muslim. So how can we have a discussion at all when you're always on the defensive, and incapable to being constructive?

And you never actually explained why you prefer to use 'repressive regime' over 'Muslim'. instead you berated me again over a strawman because you thought I was comparing islam to fascism (which, to be fair I do quite often, because they aren't too far apart, except I didn't in our discussion nor in this thread).

Anyway, I think if you want to have an honest and constructive dialogue then you need to first change yourself.

A summation worthy of FD himself!

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:35am:

A summation worthy of FD himself!

that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:42am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific.

You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it.

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:44am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it.

Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many bad things which can still have parts that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.   How is that alluding to fascism being islam?

I mean, if we wish to discuss the similarities between Islam and Fascism we definitely can, but with that actual comment there was absolutely no alluding.

You need to stop arguing strawmans.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many bad things which can still have parts that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.   How is that alluding to fascism being islam? I mean, if we wish to discuss the similarities between Islam and Fascism we definitely can, but with that actual comment there was absolutely no alluding. You need to stop arguing strawmans.

I'm quite over it Alevine. It was you that brought it up. It's still the only thing you got right in your summation.

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:50am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many bad things which can still have parts that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.   How is that alluding to fascism being islam? I mean, if we wish to discuss the similarities between Islam and Fascism we definitely can, but with that actual comment there was absolutely no alluding. You need to stop arguing strawmans. I'm quite over it Alevine. It was you that brought it up. It's still the only thing you got right in your summation.

I'd say my summation was spot on and you have a problem admitting when you're wrong.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:51am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:50am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many bad things which can still have parts that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.   How is that alluding to fascism being islam? I mean, if we wish to discuss the similarities between Islam and Fascism we definitely can, but with that actual comment there was absolutely no alluding. You need to stop arguing strawmans. I'm quite over it Alevine. It was you that brought it up. It's still the only thing you got right in your summation. I'd say my summation was spot on and you have a problem admitting when you're wrong.

Yes. You probably would. You've grown accustomed to making stuff up. I've been watching.

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:51am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:50am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many bad things which can still have parts that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.   How is that alluding to fascism being islam? I mean, if we wish to discuss the similarities between Islam and Fascism we definitely can, but with that actual comment there was absolutely no alluding. You need to stop arguing strawmans. I'm quite over it Alevine. It was you that brought it up. It's still the only thing you got right in your summation. I'd say my summation was spot on and you have a problem admitting when you're wrong. Yes. You probably would. You've grown accustomed to making stuff up. I've been watching.

what did I make up, mothra? I mean if you're going to accuse me of things then back it up. Otherwise you're being as hollow as gweggy.

I've called you on each and every thing you've just made up, Alevine. It's all there. I'm not copy and pasting it all in again.

There's everything but the fascism point in your summation, to add to those instances.

mothra wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 1:10am:

I've called you on each and every thing you've just made up, Alevine. It's all there. I'm not copy and pasting it all in again. There's everything but the fascism point in your summation, to add to those instances.

? Mothra, the only other thing in my summation was the fact that it was you that didn' twish to discuss Middle East. Did you want me to pull up the quote?

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many things that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.

Put him in the Wiki, FD.

Karnal wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 3:28am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many things that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.  Put him in the Wiki, FD.

Deliberately changing what I actually wrote now, karnal?  Tsk tsk.  Shows just how dumb you really are. 

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:21pm:

Yet the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better. Like i like the church i grew up in more than Hillsong, although i'm not religious anymore.

Why do you choose to legitimise Islam? And what is your version of it?

Is Gandalf one of those people?

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 11:04pm:

[quote author=alevine link=1504256289/55#55 date=1504270775] I don't think you can say that Islam is a repressive religion because some people use it to repress people any more than you can say of any other religion. There are just too many Muslims that aren't repressed by their interpretation of their religion. I don't know how many ways i can say it. Or how many times.

Islam is a repressive religion because repression and unconditional submission is at its heart. No amount reforming at the edges can erase or change that essential core of Islam. It's rituals demonstrate submission, its teachings and doctrines are suppressive.

Do show us how it liberates people.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 1:17am:

mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:10am: I've called you on each and every thing you've just made up, Alevine. It's all there. I'm not copy and pasting it all in again. There's everything but the fascism point in your summation, to add to those instances. ? Mothra, the only other thing in my summation was the fact that it was you that didn' twish to discuss Middle East. Did you want me to pull up the quote?

Yes please.

Quote:

"We are afraid if we come out with our opinion then the left may abandon us for going against their view http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-31/same-sex-marriage-why-have-muslims-been-so-quiet-in-debate/8860486

Does anyone remember when Gillard,Shorten,Wong,Swan and Plibersek were against same sex marriage?
https://twitter.com/DavidLeyonhjelm/status/903597946733715456

mothra wrote on Sep 1^st, 2017 at 10:21pm:

.....the people who express Islam as i choose to legitimise it          .....say those people have got it all wrong. I like their version better.

You said that;

'Some' moslems don't practise ISLAM, the same way as 'other' moslems do/would [or in a way that 'other' moslems approve of].

And you suggested that you like 'some' other version of ISLAM, which 'some' moslems follow.




And i like blue skies in the morning, better than blue skies at dusk.

/honest!


mothra,

Prove to us that what you said, makes some sense, if you can.



And mothra,

Q.
Does 'the messenger of Allah' in one version of ISLAM, remain the same 'messenger of Allah', for all versions of ISLAM ?




THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2017 at 3:58am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:28am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many things that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.  Put him in the Wiki, FD. Deliberately changing what I actually wrote now, karnal?  Tsk tsk.  Shows just how dumb you really are.

Put him in the Wiki, FD,  we've caught ourselves another Nazi jellyfish.

Karnal wrote on Sep 8^th, 2017 at 3:33am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:58am: Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:28am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many things that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.  Put him in the Wiki, FD. Deliberately changing what I actually wrote now, karnal?  Tsk tsk.  Shows just how dumb you really are.  Put him in the Wiki, FD,  we've caught ourselves another Nazi jellyfish.

Purely dishonest, karnal.  Shameful.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8^th, 2017 at 5:15am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:33am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:58am: Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:28am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:48am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:44am: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:42am: mothra wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 12:35am: A summation worthy of FD himself! that is meant to be insulting somehow? Mothra, what part of my summation was wrong? Be specific. You only got one thing right, Alevine. And that is that you didn't technically compare Islam to fascism. You merely alluded to it. Not at all, I didn't even allude. I simply said there are many things that are good. For instance, fascism in that it brings people together for a common cause.  Put him in the Wiki, FD. Deliberately changing what I actually wrote now, karnal?  Tsk tsk.  Shows just how dumb you really are.  Put him in the Wiki, FD,  we've caught ourselves another Nazi jellyfish. Purely dishonest, karnal.  Shameful.

Get him, FD. Put him in with JS.

Shameful. And he thinks he can blame me!

Typical Nazi apologist.