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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> The Islamic Way http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516565029 Message started by issuevoter on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am

Title: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:00pm

As I always respond to statements about Gods: Prove it. And also I ask, how can you know what anyone has in their mind when they speak of God . . . fill out a questionnaire?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:38pm

AugCaesarustus wrote Reply #1 - Today at 10:22am

Quote:

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

Well as sure the sun rises between two sides of the head of the devil (or satan), they just keep trying to put islam up there with the founders of monotheism.

allah is a pagan moon god:

muhammad proclaimed: 'There is no god but allah,' he was not designating a new god. Pagan Arabs already worshipped a moon god called allah, in pre islamic times.

muhammad himself worshiped this pagan moon god.

The pre-islam moon god allah was regarded as the lord of the Ka'ba.

The moon god religion of the pre islamic Arabs, believed that caves, springs, and large stones were inhabited by spirits, capable of talking. .

Pre-islamic pagan Arabs prayed several times a day while bowing towards K'abah, the "house of allah" in Mecca that houses a meteorite - a rock from space -, visited it once a year, and walked around it several times during their visit, they kissed the black stone. (muhammad would have practiced all these as well, in his pre-islam pagan moon god days)

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of allah” in pagan Arabia? Yes they were. "The Quraysh tribe into which Mohammad was born was particularly devoted to allah, the moon god, and especially to allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and allah." ... "The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah."

"Was the Kaaba the "house of the moon god"? YES!

Today 2018 what do muslims do to worship their moon god allah?

muslims pray bowing towards the K'abah in Mecca five times a day.

About two million muslims visit Mecca every year and walk around the K'abah, muslims still kiss the black stone.

The muslim "holy" month of ramadan starts at the sighting of a new crescent moon.

Perched atop mosques (and on most muslims flags) across the world is the crescent moon, the symbol of the moon god allah whom muhammad already worshipped and chose as the reinvented god of islam.

Are al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat the daughters of allah taught in the qur'an?

Yes verses 53.19: So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza? 53.20: And Manat, the third - the other one?

muslims believe in talking rocks, trees and flying donkies.

So there is no divergence from pagan moon god practices.

allah is a reinvented moon god.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:25pm

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:38pm:

allah is a pagan moon god:

Yes, you've espoused this nonsense before. And like before, it is complete nonsense.

No religious scholar agrees with you.

Unless you can quote me a well-known religious scholar who supports your claim.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:50pm

Here's a couple for starters.here or here or here or here or here, the net is full of archeological historical and religious proof that islams' allah is the pagan moon god allah with the added attributes of hatred and evil.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:54pm

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:50pm:

Not valid sources, Moses. You're going to have to do better than that.

Anti-Islamic sites are hardly 'academic'.

Keep espousing your bullshit theories.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:15pm

Oh dear if they show the evidence which refutes islam, they're anti islam.

Gee you forgot islamophobic.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:19pm

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:15pm:

Oh dear if they show the evidence which refutes islam, they're anti islam.

Gee you forgot islamophobic.

You have yet to show any 'evidence'.

Just conspiracy theories.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:33pm

All right we're only going in circles.

I've shown the indisputable samenesses of islam and pagan moon god rituals. (kissing the black stone, praying towards Mecca, worshipping the daughters of the moon god allah, using the cresent moon symbol, walking around the black stone many times, running between hills, believing in talking rocks and trees, pilgrimage to Mecca etc.)

Tell me why did muhammad say the Jews and Christians had corrupted their books because they never mentioned allah?

Tell me why did muhammad lie and accuse Christians of associating partners with allah, when they were clearly talking about Y.H.W.H.?

Tell me why isn't allah mentioned in the writing of the Jews and Christians (except in muslim controlled countries where it would mean instant death not to say allah is god)?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:51pm

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:33pm:

Tell me why did muhammad say the Jews and Christians had corrupted their books because they never mentioned allah?

Wrong. Muhammad said that Jews and Christians did worship God, but that their scriptures had been corrupted to turn away from God toward other things.

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:33pm:

Tell me why did muhammad lie and accuse Christians of associating partners with allah, when they were clearly talking about Y.H.W.H.?

Even Jews at the time didn't refer God as YHWH. They either referred to Him as Adonai or Elohim, not Yahweh. YHHW was considered to be the meaning of 'I am what I am'.

Allah is a unique contraction of Al-Ilah, which means God; i.e. the supreme God of the universe.

According to Wikipedia:

"The word "Allah" was used by Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews in Arabia before the lifetime of Muhammad and is the translation of the phrase "The God" as used in their Greek scriptures to mean God.[9] It was also used by pre-Muslim Arab monotheists known as hanifs."[10]

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:56pm

Those who claim that Allah is a pagan deity, most notably the moon god, often base their claims on the fact that a symbol of the crescent moon adorns the tops of many mosques and is widely used as a symbol of Islam. It is in fact true that before the coming of Islam many "gods" and idols were worshipped in the Middle East, but the name of the moon god was Sîn, not Allah, and he was not particularly popular in Arabia, the birthplace of Islam. The most prominent idol in Mecca was a god called Hubal, and there is no proof that he was a moon god. It is sometimes claimed that there is a temple to the moon god at Hazor in Palestine. This is based on a representation there of a supplicant wearing a crescent-like pendant. It is not clear, however, that the pendant symbolizes a moon god, and in any case this is not an Arab religious site but an ancient Canaanite site, which was destroyed by Joshua in about 1250 BC. ... If the ancient Arabs worshipped hundreds of idols, then no doubt the moon god Sîn was included, for even the Hebrews were prone to worship the sun and the moon and the stars, but there is no clear evidence that moon-worship was prominent among the Arabs in any way or that the crescent was used as the symbol of a moon god, and Allah was certainly not the moon god's name.[32]

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 3:45pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That, is a filthy moslem lie.

But of course, moslems would love for Christians [and Jews] to worship Allah, as being the God of the bible.

He isn't.

Google;
a different god allah

Google;
allah another god

.

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

No, i don't believe in sef-defence augcaesarustus.

I believe in slaughtering everyone who will not bow down and worship Allah.

Coz, i'm a moslem.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1509883266/40#40

Quote:

ISLAM's foundational religious texts, have plainly been interpreted by moslem scholars to indicate,
that those who have embraced ISLAM,
have embraced enmity, and hatred, and hostility and warfare and murder, towards those who reject ISLAM.

[quote]

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past.

They are not dead letters.

They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA

Google

Google;
we are pledging to wage war against all mankind, al-Tabari

[/quote]

augcaesarustus,

IMO, you are a deceiver and, an agent provocateur.

You have nothing of worth to contribute here.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 4:02pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

IMAGE.....

ISLAM is not a religion - in any traditional sense

------- >

IMAGE...

THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST, 2006, IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 4:15pm

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:50pm:

Mmm, all Bible sites, Moses. Gee, perhaps they are scared like all Islamophobes are, of Muslims and Islam? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 3:45pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Google

Google;
we are pledging to wage war against all mankind, al-Tabari

augcaesarustus,

IMO, you are a deceiver and, an agent provocateur.

You have nothing of worth to contribute here.

[/quote]

Those who claim that Allah is a pagan deity, most notably the moon god, often base their claims on the fact that a symbol of the crescent moon adorns the tops of many mosques and is widely used as a symbol of Islam. It is in fact true that before the coming of Islam many "gods" and idols were worshipped in the Middle East, but the name of the moon god was Sîn, not Allah, and he was not particularly popular in Arabia, the birthplace of Islam. The most prominent idol in Mecca was a god called Hubal, and there is no proof that he was a moon god. It is sometimes claimed that there is a temple to the moon god at Hazor in Palestine. This is based on a representation there of a supplicant wearing a crescent-like pendant. It is not clear, however, that the pendant symbolizes a moon god, and in any case this is not an Arab religious site but an ancient Canaanite site, which was destroyed by Joshua in about 1250 BC. ... If the ancient Arabs worshipped hundreds of idols, then no doubt the moon god Sîn was included, for even the Hebrews were prone to worship the sun and the moon and the stars, but there is no clear evidence that moon-worship was prominent among the Arabs in any way or that the crescent was used as the symbol of a moon god, and Allah was certainly not the moon god's name.[32]

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:21pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 3:45pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1516565029/1#1 date=1516580570]

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That, is a filthy moslem lie.

It's the same nonsense as 'Mohammed is the final prophet of god'. The illiterate warlord declares himself the last word on what's in god's mind. Gussie, you have to be equally illiterate and bent on world domination to believe such nonsense.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:25pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

Mohammed was a 'man for all seasons'.

And when it served his purposes, Mohammed was willing to worship pagan Gods and pagan idols.

Authentic, authoritative, ISLAMIC history, attests to that fact.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1392474751/5#5

Mohammed was a liar, and deceiver [because lies and deceit, 'served' him].

Mohammed was a liar, and deceiver, .....just as ALL of Mohammed's followers today, are also inherent liars, and deceivers,
who are all destined for the hot place.

".....just as ALL of his followers today, are also inherent liars, and deceivers,"

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516142236/28#28

.

Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It is impossible for some people to believe, what the bible reveals.
.....because, there is something evil, - INSIDE THEIR HEARTS - which they refuse to let go of.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:28pm

Frank wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:21pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 3:45pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1516565029/1#1 date=1516580570]

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That, is a filthy moslem lie.

Well, that's how the theology goes, Frank.

You know the Muslims do it to themselves as well. They shouldn't say Allah, but God in English.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:29pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:25pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

The ravings of a mad-man.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:54pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

No he isn't.

A person need only compare what Allah and Mohammed reputedly say on differing issues, in the Koran and Hadith,
....with what the God of the Holy Bible has said, on those exact same issues.

If Yahweh is Allah, .....then Yahweh has had a personality transplant!

----- >

FOR EXAMPLE, on keeping oaths, keeping our word, and honouring our verbal agreements.

If we give someone an undertaking to do something, or to behave in a certain way, will we keep to the [verbal] agreement that we have made ?

ALLAH;

"Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise."
Koran 66:2

"The Prophet said, "If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath."."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.067.427
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.078.618
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.709
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.710
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.712
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.715

Coz, Mohammed was a covenant breaker, and a liar, just like his god.

"expiate my oath", means an obligation to Allah of penance [Kaffara], e.g. fasting for three days, or to clothe or feed poor people.

Allah and Mohammed above.

+++

From the Jewish O.T. Bible;

Numbers 30:2
If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Allah, and Yahweh....

Chalk and cheese!

Psalms 15:1
LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.

see also....
Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295407319/0#0

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:00pm

Allah, is a very real 'god'.
....he exists, as an entity.

But he is not Yahweh!

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:19pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Not according to Gandalf. According to him they were slaughtered for being a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. Muhammad killed 800 of them in one day. As far as I can tell they did not kill any Muslims and any fighting they actually did was in self defence when the Muslims attacked them. Muhammad decided who the "warriors" were by inspecting their genitals.

Even Muhammad warned them to convert or suffer that fate.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your spineless apologetics.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Lisa Jones on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:35pm

Frank wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:21pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 3:45pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1516565029/1#1 date=1516580570]

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That, is a filthy moslem lie.

Exactly!

"Allah" refers to Muhammad's interpretation of who and what HE THINKS is God.

Muhammad...that revolting pedophile who ordered his followers to kill those who don't or won't believe what he says. And who has defiled the holy notion of Heaven by turning it into some vile brothel where virgins are on offer to be used by his male followers men who have killed and have died in the process.

Talk about megalomanic male dominant driven insanity!

He's just a bloody nutter like Hitler!

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:57pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:21pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 3:45pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1516565029/1#1 date=1516580570]

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That, is a filthy moslem lie.

Well, that's how the theology goes, Frank.

You know the Muslims do it to themselves as well. They shouldn't say Allah, but God in English.

You make no sense, Gussie, once again. You are alluding to things only you are aware of - if aware is not too strong a word.

Have another go. Have two. Call a friend like Karnal or gweggy or Bwian.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 2:34pm

Quote:

Allah is a unique contraction of Al-Ilah, which means God; i.e. the supreme God of the universe.

qur'an 53:11 The heart did not lie [about] what it saw.

qur'an 53:12 So will you dispute with him over what he saw?

qur'an 53:13 And he certainly saw him in another descent

qur'an 53:14 At the Lote Tree of the Utmost Boundary -

qur'an 53:15 Near it is the Garden of Refuge -

qur'an 53:16 When there covered the Lote Tree that which covered [it].

qur'an 53:17 The sight [of the Prophet] did not swerve, nor did it transgress [its limit].

qur'an 53:18 He certainly saw of the greatest signs of his Lord.

qur'an 53.19: So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?

qur'an 53.20: And Manat, the third - the other one?

muhammad certainly saw allahs' three daughters al-Lat al-'Uzza and Manat in allahs' paradise.

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of allah” in pagan Arabia? Yes they were. "The Quraysh tribe into which Mohammad was born was particularly devoted to allah, the moon god, and especially to allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and allah." ... "The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah."

Then we have:

muslims pray bowing towards the K'abah in Mecca five times a day. (a protraction of the pagan moon god ritual)

About two million muslims visit Mecca every year and walk around the K'abah, muslims still kiss the black stone. (a protraction of the pagan moon god ritual)

The muslim "holy" month of ramadan starts at the sighting of a new crescent moon. (a protraction of the pagan moon god ritual)

Perched atop mosques (and on most muslims flags) across the world is the crescent moon, the symbol of the moon god allah whom muhammad already worshipped and chose as the reinvented god of islam. (a protraction of the pagan moon god ritual)

But the apologists bend over backwards to give the death cult of islam some sort of unique link to the god of the Jews and Christians.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 7:03pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:00pm:

Allah, is a very real 'god'.
....he exists, as an entity.

But he is not Yahweh!

Yahweh was actually a pagan god who became the 'sole' god of the universe. Allah or God in Islam is the same God. The Quran continually refers to Himself (God) as delivering the scriptures to the Jews and Christians. It's all in there. No secret.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 7:04pm

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:19pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Where's your evidence that he massacred 800 Jews?? Sources?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 7:05pm

moses wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 2:34pm:

Quote:

Allah is a unique contraction of Al-Ilah, which means God; i.e. the supreme God of the universe.

Again, the Moon God was called Sin, not Allah. Do some reading.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 7:04pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:19pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Where's your evidence that he massacred 800 Jews?? Sources?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Ibn Ishaq describes the killing of the Banu Qurayza men as follows:

Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, "Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!" This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, "By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken." Then he went to the men and said, "God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel." Then he sat down and his head was struck off.[48][49][61]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#Hadith_literature

According to Meir J. Kister all male members of the tribe who reached puberty were beheaded,[22] Ibn Kathir says those who did not reach adolescence were taken prisoners instead of being killed.[2] This is also mentioned in the Sunni hadith collection Abu Dawud:

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4390

According to Mubrakpuri, Peters, Stillman, Guillaume and Inamdar, Islamic tradition says that the angel Gabriel and Muhammad spoke to one another before the attack.[1][14][15][16][17] This is also mentioned in the Sunni hadith collection Sahih Bukhari:

When Allah's Apostle returned on the day (of the battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench), he put down his arms and took a bath. Then Gabriel whose head was covered with dust, came to him saying, "You have put down your arms! By Allah, I have not put down my arms yet." Allah's Apostle said, "Where (to go now)?" Gabriel said, "This way," pointing towards the tribe of Bani Quraiza. So Allah's Apostle went out towards them .

Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:68

The event is also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:57:66, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:57:66, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:68, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:59:443, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:59:44, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:280 and many others.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 7:03pm:

Yahweh was actually a pagan god who became the 'sole' god of the universe.

Allah or God in Islam is the same God.

The Quran continually refers to Himself (God) as delivering the scriptures to the Jews and Christians.

It's all in there.

No secret.

Oh i know augcaesarustus ! :P :D

Allah was such a very clever God.

Authoritative ISLAMIC texts, themselves, clearly state that 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)', were protected by Allah, and that they were also venerated by Mohammed.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

And there's more!

------- >

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/2#2

Quote:

The inerrant Koran???

Contrary evidence is apparent.

EXAMPLE #3

The Koran states that Allah gave the gospel scripture, to Jesus.

The 'inerrant' Koran states it, so it must be true!

/sarc off

Dictionary;
gospel = = the record of Christ’s life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament.

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah."
Koran 5.46
Koran 5.110

"Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;..."
Koran 57.27

And moslems claim that the contents of the Koran are the direct words of Allah, and thereby, moslems know that the Koran is inerrant.

Allah is such a clever god, to give the gospel to Jesus. ;D

Any reasonable and sane person knows, that 'the Gospel' [which is an account of Jesus life and ministry] refers to N.T. scripture which was compiled after Jesus death and resurrection.

Although everyone knows, that ISLAMIC religious texts [Koran] and doctrines, claim that 1/ Jesus did not die, and that 2/ Jesus was never resurrected.

QUESTION;
When exactly, does ISLAM suggest that Allah 'bestowed on him [Jesus] the Gospel',
....to Jesus ???

;D

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 8:57am

Highly recommended by Yadda.....

ISLAM explained, plain and simple....

Three things you (probably) don't know about islam 9 min 29 mb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Letting those people live would've been seen as weak, and so Muhammad ordered them to be killed. If Muhammad had let them live, what's not to say that they would've attacked the Muslims at another time???

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims; they promised not to support the enemy of Muhammad but did anyway.

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other. A treaty might've lasted for a few months, but only to ensure that the opposing army would rebuild. It was about revenge, and tribal honour. Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Also, there are countless examples in the Torah of whether Yahweh orders his followers to indiscriminately slaughter men, women and children just because of a historical grudge against the Jews. But, for some reason you seem to accept this but not a situation in which Muhammad had a reason to perform the acts he did.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:26am

Yadda wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Although everyone knows, that ISLAMIC religious texts [Koran] and doctrines, claim that 1/ Jesus did not die, and that 2/ Jesus was never resurrected.

You believe it's scientifically possible for a man to be resurrected from the dead?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:33am

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:26am:

Yadda wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Although everyone knows, that ISLAMIC religious texts [Koran] and doctrines, claim that 1/ Jesus did not die, and that 2/ Jesus was never resurrected.

You believe it's scientifically possible for a man to be resurrected from the dead?

augcaesarustus,

I don't know if it is, or could be,       'scientifically possible'       for a man to be resurrected from the dead.

And i'm not affirming that.

What i am affirming, is that i've seen and experienced many things that i wouldn't even attempt to explain. [because i wouldn't know how to explain them]

What we see, and feel in this world, appears to be real.

But imo, this 'reality', which we experience, is a very intricate 'construct'.

I wouldn't even try to convince another person of that 'belief'.

Just to be clear,       I'm not on any prescribed medications, and i do not take 'recreational' or psychotropic drugs.

:)

p.s.
Do i believe that Jesus was scourged [beaten], crucified and died,    and that after 3 days and 3 nights, he was resurrected back to life.

Absolutely!

[edit]

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:08pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

augcaesarustus,

I don't know if it is, or could be, 'scientifically possible' for a man to be resurrected from the dead.

And i'm not affirming that.

Yes, you are. And the NT affirms that. It is making a scientific claim.

Yadda wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

What i am affirming, is that i've seen and experienced many things that i wouldn't even attempt to explain. [because i wouldn't know how to explain them]

What we see, and feel in this world, appears to be real.

But imo, this 'reality', which we experience, is a very intricate 'construct'.

I wouldn't even try to convince another person of that 'belief'.

I'm sure that if you try hard enough, you can explain it.

Yadda wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

Just to be clear, I'm not on any prescribed medications, and i do not take 'recreational' or psychotropic drugs.

Smiley

You don't have to be on any prescribed medications or drugs to be crazy, you know?

Yadda wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

You know that this was written before the Gospels were written? Paul the Apostle wrote 7 letters to different communities BEFORE the Gospels were written.

It all begins on the Road to Damascus where Paul had a vision of Christ. This vision then informed the rest of Christian theology. If Paul had seen and spoken with Jesus Christ then obviously he had died and then risen from the dead?? Right?? In fact, Paul was the second founder of Christianity; if it weren't for him, Christianity wouldn't have become so widespread.

So, Jesus dying and resurrecting from the dead? That was Paul's idea! We don't know what the earlier followers of Christ believed in; but it's most likely that they believed in the Jewish concept of the Messiah - a descendant of King David who would be born in the 'flesh' to rule over Israel.

Paul developed the idea of the 'Cosmic Christ' but this was not in accordance with the beliefs and practices of the early Christian community.

Therefore, Yadda, you are not a Christian, but a Pauline because you follow Paul's theology and beliefs.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Are you conceding that the massacre happened? I ask because when I discuss this with Gandalf I can spend dozens of pages pulling apart his various excuses as he rapidly switches from one to the other, eventually falling back on saying it doesn't matter anyway because the massacre did not actually happen. Then a while later he'll trot out the same excuses again.

By whose standard does refraining from committing genocide make a leader weak? To me it implies several weaknesses - greed, lust for power, lack of any sort of compassion, terrible leadership, diplomacy and negotiation skills etc. Unless of course you count killing everyone who gets in your way as a leadership skill...

Also, please quote the relevant parts from this alleged treaty that compels something from the Jews, but permits Muhammad to commit genocide against them, and also permits Muhammad to preach anti-Jewish propaganda in their own town, including threatening them with massacre if they do not acknowledge him as their prophet - which, according to Muhammad, they already knew.

Also, what support did they offer the enemy? The only actual support I am aware of is support they gave to Muhammad.

Also, can you explain the relevance of the Torah? Would you kill a Jew today because of it? I am not aware of any passages in the Torah that justify slaughter because of historical grudges against Jews.

They were not all out to get each other. These different religious and cultural groups had co-existed for a long time on the Arabian peninsula. Muhamamd was the only leader who killed everyone who refused to worship him as a political necessity.

You are right in one respect though - a lot of people were out to get Muhammad. He had spent several years murdering Meccan traders and stealing their goods. But your efforts to turn this into a moral excuse for Muhamamd's genocide is nothing short of absurd.

Why are you so keen to blindly parrot what is obviously misleading Islamic propaganda? And where did you actually get this from? When Gandalf sprouts this gibberish he is always afraid to give his actual sources.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 2:21pm

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

The massacre happened. The question is motive. Did Muhammad slaughter those people because they 'disbelieved' as you claim, or because they were a potential threat to the Muslim community? Can you be so sure that if Muhammad had live and let live, that those who surrendered wouldn't have sought revenge on the Muslim community? If you were the leader of a community and there was a continual threat looming down on you, don't you think that if you were savvy, you'd eliminate that threat as soon as possible, or would you wait until they built up strength??

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

By whose standard does refraining from committing genocide make a leader weak? To me it implies several weaknesses - greed, lust for power, lack of any sort of compassion, terrible leadership, diplomacy and negotiation skills etc. Unless of course you count killing everyone who gets in your way as a leadership skill...

As stated above, it's weak leadership when you know that there are threats surrounding you, and you don't take action to eliminate those threats. As I've stated before, Muhammad engaged in pre-emptive warfare, which means you act your enemies based on a 'perceived' threat. His goal was to unite the Arabian peninsula. Do you think other tribal societies were going to let him just walk into their territory and do it??

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

Also, please quote the relevant parts from this alleged treaty that compels something from the Jews, but permits Muhammad to commit genocide against them, and also permits Muhammad to preach anti-Jewish propaganda in their own town, including threatening them with massacre if they do not acknowledge him as their prophet - which, according to Muhammad, they already knew.

The details of the treaty don't matter. The fact that an enemy has broken a treaty is enough to warrant a pre-emptive strike.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

They were not all out to get each other. These different religious and cultural groups had co-existed for a long time on the Arabian peninsula. Muhamamd was the only leader who killed everyone who refused to worship him as a political necessity.

Muhammad wanted to build an empire, which involves killing and blood. The Arabian peninsula was extremely tribal, and Muhammad wanted to create a centralised political entity in the Arabian peninsula. He succeeded in doing so. Sure, were there still tribal elements.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

You are right in one respect though - a lot of people were out to get Muhammad. He had spent several years murdering Meccan traders and stealing their goods. But your efforts to turn this into a moral excuse for Muhamamd's genocide is nothing short of absurd.

I never said anything about moral. Of course it was immoral what he did, but the Prophets of the Tanakh also committed many immoral acts. That's what tribalism was.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

Also, can you explain the relevance of the Torah? Would you kill a Jew today because of it? I am not aware of any passages in the Torah that justify slaughter because of historical grudges against Jews.

1 Samuel 15 New International Version (NIV)

The Lord Rejects Saul as King

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Long story short: Saul didn't do what Yahweh commanded, and then Yahweh reprimanded him for not slaughtering everything.

If you're argument is that this is not part of the Torah: here is another one, which talks about Moses:

"And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp; and Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle; and Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him; but all the women-children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."[147]

So, in this example, in the Torah, Moses commands the massacre of women and children because they worshiped another god.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 2:23pm

Also, you'll notice that Moses commands his men to take the 'women-children' for themselves, i.e. take them as sex slaves.

Not much different from Muhammad, don't you think?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 3:56pm

AugCaesarustus wrote Reply #37 - Today at 12:08pm

Quote:

So, Jesus dying and resurrecting from the dead? That was Paul's idea!

Which qur'an did you get that out of auggie?

It holds about as much water as your claim that allah isn't muhammads' revamped moon god.

Christian doctrine says different:

Mary Magdalene
John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
John20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Mary The Mother Of James, Salome, And Joanna
Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Matthew28:10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Simon and others
Luke 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luke 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The Disciples - Thomas Absent
John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
John 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.
John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

All Of The Disciples
John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Seven Disciples At The Sea Of Galilee
John 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
John 21:2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.

A Mountain In Galilee
Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Over Five Hundred People
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.).

James
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

Summary
The Bible says that Jesus made a number of appearances after His death. They were to a number of different people over a forty-day period. The Bible specifically says that on Easter Sunday Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, the women that came to Jesus tomb, (Mary the Mother of James, Salome, and Joanna), Peter, and two disciples on the Emmaus road. He also appeared to the remainder of the Twelve Disciples with Thomas absent. Later he appeared to them with Thomas present. There was also an appearance to seven disciples on the Sea of Galilee. On another occasion he appeared to over five hundred people at the same time. There is also an appearance to James. Finally Jesus appeared to Saul of Tarsus - the man who became the Apostle Paul. These appearances convinced His disciples, beyond any doubt, that He had risen from the dead.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 4:47pm

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Which qur'an did you get that out of auggie?

It holds about as much water as your claim that allah isn't muhammads' revamped moon god.

No, there is scholarly consensus that Paul wrote 7 letters BEFORE the Gospels. Because Paul wrote first, which was based on his experience on the road to damascus, therefore the Gospels reflected Paul's teachings.

Pretty simple, hey?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 4:59pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 12:08pm:

It all begins on the Road to Damascus where Paul had a vision of Christ. This vision then informed the rest of Christian theology. If Paul had seen and spoken with Jesus Christ then obviously he had died and then risen from the dead?? Right?? In fact, Paul was the second founder of Christianity; if it weren't for him, Christianity wouldn't have become so widespread.

So, Jesus dying and resurrecting from the dead? That was Paul's idea! We don't know what the earlier followers of Christ believed in; but it's most likely that they believed in the Jewish concept of the Messiah - a descendant of King David who would be born in the 'flesh' to rule over Israel.

Paul developed the idea of the 'Cosmic Christ' but this was not in accordance with the beliefs and practices of the early Christian community.

Therefore, Yadda, you are not a Christian, but a Pauline because you follow Paul's theology and beliefs.

That "If" is the basis of the notion of Jesus as a kind of superhuman. Peter would have been aware of the susceptibility of the ignorant to such stories, and also their enthusiasm for magical powers of the old pagan deities. Once Jesus had been executed, Peter was left with a hard sell; the ideas of a deadman. It is probable that all of the superhuman capabilities were Peter's invention.

All of the God happenings of Biblical times still clung to today, the burning bush, the manufacture of the Ten Coms, Gabriel speaking to Moe, and even down to the book of Morman, are all cases of someone asking, "Would I lie to you?" Well, some may have been white lies, but a lie is lie.

I understand people with no education or knowledge of the world, and living in mud huts, believing this stuff, but its time to man-up and face reality. Otherwise:

"Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird . . . It's a plane.

NO!!!! Its superpig!!! And he's flying, folks!"

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:56pm

AugCaesarustus wrote:

Quote:

this site says differently:

GROWTH OF THE EARLY CHURCH, 30 TO 47 CE

The Crucifixion Through the First Missionary Journey

Since the date of Jesus' crucifixion in 30 CE is already established, this is the first entry.

30, April 7 - The Crucifixion.

30, April 9 to May 19 - The Resurrection and Resurrection Appearances.

the first appearances of the resurrected Christ were in the year 30 from April 9 to May 19.

People were converting to Christianity in droves, all based on a verifiable risen saviour.

When word came that these followers of Jesus had spread into Syria, Saul requested permission to go to Damascus.

The High Priest granted him letters to take to the synagogues of Syria.

There is no way known that incident of Saul / Paul seeing the bright light on his way to Damascus happened before the church had spread massively.

Most likely the first dramatic growth of the church happened in the first 12 months after the Resurrection.

Then it spreads to Syria Saul / Paul seeks permission to go and persecute them this is at least 1 year after the Crucifixion Resurrection and Resurrection Appearances.

You got is all wrong auggie.

For your Hypothesis to be correct Saul /Paul had to be chasing non existent Christians if he was to be the new founder.

The Church was already well and truly up and running the Resurrection Appearances were the rock the new faith was based on, Saul / Paul was a late edition, converting on one of his trips of maltreatment against a rapidly spreading church.

It's simple logic people rapidly spreading the faith based on confirmable Resurrection Appearances, Saul/Paul heading out on a kill the Christians mission, confronted by a bright light which says it's the spirit of Christ. Saul/Paul converts.

There's no way he started the risen saviour doctrine.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:24pm

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

the first appearances of the resurrected Christ were in the year 30 from April 9 to May 19.

I doubt it very much. There's no historical or other biblical evidence to support this claim.

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

People were converting to Christianity in droves, all based on a verifiable risen saviour.

No, they weren't actually. The early Christians were a small group confined to the original apostles.

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

There is no way known that incident of Saul / Paul seeing the bright light on his way to Damascus happened before the church had spread massively.

We know that's the case because Paul is the first to write about it. No one else wrote about it. There's no indication in the Epistles that other people had propagated this doctrine.

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

Most likely the first dramatic growth of the church happened in the first 12 months after the Resurrection.

The resurrection was told AFTER THE FACT.

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

The Church was already well and truly up and running the Resurrection Appearances were the rock the new faith was based on, Saul / Paul was a late edition, converting on one of his trips of maltreatment against a rapidly spreading church.

It's simple logic people rapidly spreading the faith based on confirmable Resurrection Appearances, Saul/Paul heading out on a kill the Christians mission, confronted by a bright light which says it's the spirit of Christ. Saul/Paul converts.

There's no way he started the risen saviour doctrine.

Incorrect, the early Christians were more Jewish in their doctrine. They had no concept of the Cosmic Christ or a Spiritual Body; this is truly Pauline theology. Scholars will support this.

No one knew about christianity until Paul started writing. The Gospels came later and tell a mix of Jewish and Pauline theology, mixed together.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:44pm

So your saying that the biblical accounts are all lies.

Quote:

The Bible says that Jesus made a number of appearances after His death. They were to a number of different people over a forty-day period. The Bible specifically says that on Easter Sunday Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, the women that came to Jesus tomb, (Mary the Mother of James, Salome, and Joanna), Peter, and two disciples on the Emmaus road. He also appeared to the remainder of the Twelve Disciples with Thomas absent. Later he appeared to them with Thomas present. There was also an appearance to seven disciples on the Sea of Galilee. On another occasion he appeared to over five hundred people at the same time. There is also an appearance to James. Finally Jesus appeared to Saul of Tarsus - the man who became the Apostle Paul. These appearances convinced His disciples, beyond any doubt, that He had risen from the dead.

According to you these accounts are false as they simply had no idea about the resurrection of Christ?

Is this your argument, the N.T. was deliberately falsified, there were no resurrection appearances in the first 40 days after the death of Christ?

I don't think there are many Christians who will agree with this hypothesis.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:55pm

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:44pm:

So your saying that the biblical accounts are all lies.

Quote:

You're quoting the Gospels, which I explained were written AFTER Paul's theology had been developed. The Gospels were written by communities of the respective disciples. In order to give themselves as much legitimacy as Paul, they incorporated the resurrection and appearance story in their Gospels. They didn't want Paul to usurp their privileged position.

I never said the NT was falsified, I am saying that it reflects the theology of Paul. Sure, many Christians will disagree, doesn't mean they're right.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 7:10pm

But why do the gospels distinctly say the resurrection appearances were in the first 40 days just before the ascension?

You're just going to use a lame excuse*they didn't want to give Paul his due*?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm

Quote:

It does not really matter whether Muhammad was motivated by a cynical quest for money and power of if he really believed and angel told him to commit genocide. The outcome for the Jews is the same. The content of the Quran is the same. What Muslims believe is the same. Gandalf is still trotting out the mindless collective of treacherous Jews defense. I am not sure why you appear to think that feeling threatened is a justification for Genocide. It's like you would excuse Hitler so long as he really believed what he wrote in Mein Kampf.

Is there some hidden point here you are going to surprise us with?

Quote:

As stated above, it's weak leadership when you know that there are threats surrounding you, and you don't take action to eliminate those threats.

There are all sorts of actions he could have taken. Like refraining from murdering innocent people in order to steal from them. Again, I am not sure why you think feeling threatened justifies genocide.

Quote:

As I've stated before, Muhammad engaged in pre-emptive warfare, which means you act your enemies based on a 'perceived' threat. His goal was to unite the Arabian peninsula.

Again, so what?

Quote:

The details of the treaty don't matter.

Sure they do. What if it never existed in a form that would actually pass for a treaty by any rational standard? What if it was Muhammad who violated it first?

Quote:

Muhammad wanted to build an empire, which involves killing and blood.

Again, what is your point?

Quote:

I never said anything about moral.

So again, what is your point?

Quote:

Of course it was immoral what he did, but the Prophets of the Tanakh also committed many immoral acts.

What is your point?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:20am

More of the Islamic Way in the news today:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42808342

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 7:43am

important additional below [edit],
in Reply #36
[only for bible lovers]

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516565029/36#36

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 10:04am

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

Genocide is never justified. My point is that Muhammad behaved as the leader of a community. Did he exceed proportion? Yes, in many cases he did. It's also true that he protected his community.

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person. If we were talking about him as a historical character in much the same way as we talk about Napoleon or Julius Caesar, then nobody would care. It's because he's the leader of a religion that brings him under so much scrutiny.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

Can you provide a comparable example within a tribal society where genocide wasn't the end game?

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

Again, so what?

So, when you look at it from this context, he did what any other conquerer of his time did. What makes him more of a target of scrutiny than any other person???

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

Sure they do. What if it never existed in a form that would actually pass for a treaty by any rational standard? What if it was Muhammad who violated it first?

The treaty was that both sides would not engage in hostilities or support the enemy. Muhammad, according to the relevant literature didn't break those treaties; the enemy did. Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

Again, what is your point?

Which means again, why are you giving him so much scrutiny compared to any other person of his time??

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

What is your point?

My point is that you're quite willing to gloss over the actions of Moses and his massacres, but pay special attention and scrutiny to Muhammad's actions when on the grand scale of things, they amount to pretty much the same. Moses was a warmongering tribal leader who order the slaughter of thousands, women and children alike.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

Sure. We should not have to explain to religious leaders that genocide is a bad thing. The 'average person' is a low bar to set, yet even there Muhamamd comes up short.

Quote:

If we were talking about him as a historical character in much the same way as we talk about Napoleon or Julius Caesar, then nobody would care. It's because he's the leader of a religion that brings him under so much scrutiny.

Can you provide a comparable example within a tribal society where genocide wasn't the end game?

Sure. Pre-Muhamamd Arabia. Is someone telling you that these tribes intended to wipe each other out, and just needed Muhammad's help to get it done? Or, stick your finger on a map, and pick a random year in history.

Quote:

The treaty was

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

Quote:

Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

There is nothing in the Jewish literature, or any other religious text I am aware of, that comes close to chapter 9 of the Koran in terms of promoting violence.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

Sure. We should not have to explain to religious leaders that genocide is a bad thing. The 'average person' is a low bar to set, yet even there Muhamamd comes up short.

Of course. That goes without saying.

[quote]If we were talking about him as a historical character in much the same way as we talk about Napoleon or Julius Caesar, then nobody would care. It's because he's the leader of a religion that brings him under so much scrutiny.

Sure. Hitler gets scrutiny because we still have Nazis sprouting his nonsense. We have 1.5 billion Muslims sprouting Muhamnamd's nonsense. Western civilisation was nearly completely destroyed because of Muhammad. Genghis gets little attention, despite the scale of what he did, because no-one is defending him. Civilisation recovered from Ghenghis in a way it did not from Muhammad, because Ghenghis did not impose his barbarity via a religion.

I never said that no person or idea is above scrutiny. What I’m saying is that Islam was founded in a tribal society as was Judaism. In fact, I’d say that Arabia was more tribal than Judea.

Quote:

Can you provide a comparable example within a tribal society where genocide wasn't the end game?

The treaty was

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

Quote:

Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:35pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Look, I take your point. Muhammad is not what I would expect from a Prophet of God. Maybe he was evil. The point is that he has 1 billion adherents. We’re stuck with Islam, whether we like it or not. People are very sensitive about religion; if we have to engage in historical revisionism about a man who lived 1400 years in order to live harmoniously with them, then I don’t think it’s a huge price to pay.

I totally get what you’re doing and you’re right for the most part about Islam and Muhammad. It’s also true that you’re efforts won’t reap anything.

Still a blatant bare faced deceiver, imo.

Promoting both 1/ defeatism and 2/ 'compromise' with a group pf people, a community, who will continue to deceive us, and lie to us, until the very moment that they hold a sword to our collective throats.

"We’re stuck with Islam, whether we like it or not."

"in order to live harmoniously with them"

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN A MOSLEM, augcaesarustus.

.

Highly recommended by Yadda.....

ISLAM explained, plain and simple....

Three things you (probably) don't know about islam 9 min 29 mb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 7:15pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

augcaesarustus,

IMO, in a sane world, people like yourself would be shipped off to somewhere like Somalia, or Egypt, or Pakistan,

where you could compromise with the local moslems, to your hearts content,

"in order to live harmoniously with them".

Where you could put your own opinions and your own advice to the test.

.

As far as i know, this 'Aussie' moslem, now resides in Lebanon.

------ >

IMAGE.....

< -------- This person, Sheik Feiz Mohammed, is a deceitful sack of $#@!.

He is a moslem.

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric

January 18, 2007

SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).

"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

......Sheik Feiz - who just two weeks ago said he felt like an "alien" in his own country - leads about 4000 followers through his Global Islamic Youth Centre in Sydney's southwest.
He also accused Australian authorities of being over-zealous in their approach to clerics like him.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

NOW LISTEN TO THE EXACT SAME MOSLEM AS HE SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - WHO HAVE BECOME AWARE OF HIS PREVIOUS STATEMENTS

Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood;

Quote:

"The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"...

"I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said. "We denounce that.

This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-were-misunderstood.html

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 8:32pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

The treaty was

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

Quote:

Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:05pm

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

Quote:

Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

There is nothing in the Jewish literature, or any other religious text I am aware of, that comes close to chapter 9 of the Koran in terms of promoting violence.[/quote]

Look, I take your point. Muhammad is not what I would expect from a Prophet of God. Maybe he was evil. The point is that he has 1 billion adherents. We’re stuck with Islam, whether we like it or not. People are very sensitive about religion; if we have to engage in historical revisionism about a man who lived 1400 years in order to live harmoniously with them, then I don’t think it’s a huge price to pay.

I totally get what you’re doing and you’re right for the most part about Islam and Muhammad. It’s also true that you’re efforts won’t reap anything. [/quote]

Why not?[/quote]

Can you imagine trying to convince 1.8 billion Muslims that they’ve been lied all their life and that their religion is based on a warmongering, sadistic, sexual predator?

Good luck with that.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:07pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Ok, so there’s one viable solution.

We build a wall around the Islamic world. They leave us alone and we leave them alone. We don’t take them in and they don’t take us in.

All existing Muslims in the west stay.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:10pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

[quote]Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:11pm

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

[quote]Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

I can give you common sense. The Jews would not have signed up to such a one sided treaty that allowed Muhammad to threaten them with massacre if they do not convert to Islam. By any reasonable standard that is a declaration of war by Muhammad- the end of a treaty. Remember, they were the third of three large tribes to fall victim to this non-existent treaty. Obviously it is hard for me to prove anything regarding a treaty that does not actually exist. It is another lie Muslims like to tell, like Gandalf's invention of a mindless collective.

[quote]My point is that you're quite willing to gloss over the actions of Moses and his massacres, but pay special attention and scrutiny to Muhammad's actions when on the grand scale of things, they amount to pretty much the same. Moses was a warmongering tribal leader who order the slaughter of thousands, women and children alike.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:13pm

And what are you here for?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 10:26pm

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:13pm:

And what are you here for?

I’m here to learn and debate.

My advice to is, to give up trying to convince Gandalf about how evil Islam is. You’ll never convince him no matter what.

Second, join the Australian Liberty Alliance - they support a ten-year moratorium on resident visas from OIC countries. Put your activism to good use.

Btw, is Gandalf a convert or was he born a Muslim?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 8:05am

That's a very simplistic view. I tend to take Kuhn's perspective on changing views - the big changes ultimately rely on death. You can change the whole world's opinion without changing anyone's mind.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 11:05am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 8:05am:

That's a very simplistic view. I tend to take Kuhn's perspective on changing views - the big changes ultimately rely on death. You can change the whole world's opinion without changing anyone's mind.

Well, that's very interesting. Of course, provided that the majority of the world are not the ones whose minds you are trying to change.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 1:28pm

It's a very interesting book. You should read it.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 12:29pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Augie you never explained where you got all this from.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 2:10pm

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Quote:

I think the point you're trying to make here is that Muhammad is a so-called Prophet and should have standards higher than the average person.

What treaty? You have been talking about it for several posts now, and I am still waiting on an answer.

Quote:

Can you provide evidence that Muhammad unilaterally broke treaties??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:38pm

freediver wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Augie you never explained where you got all this from.

It is my opinion.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:43pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Augie you never explained where you got all this from.

It is my opinion.

You're not supposed to express one of those, Augie.

Google: taqiyya.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:13am

Auggie wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Augie you never explained where you got all this from.

It is my opinion.

Are you saying you just happened to make up the same lies as Gandalf, Abu etc? Does your opinion have any basis in fact?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 3:21pm

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:13am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:22am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:03am:

Kill those who don't believe in the Muzlim god. Just like Mombai and so many other places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42766623

You know the 'Muslim' God is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God???

That's what Muhammad said, just before he slaughtered them

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

You don't believe in self-defence??

Auggie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Augie you never explained where you got all this from.

It is my opinion.

Are you saying you just happened to make up the same lies as Gandalf, Abu etc? Does your opinion have any basis in fact?

Now, now, no need to speak like a jellyfish.

It is not based on fact. It is an opinion.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 9:29pm

Doesn't sound like FD's too fond of your opinion, Augie.

Should we ask FD for his?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 10:59pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

It is my opinion.

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:13am:

Are you saying you just happened to make up the same lies as Gandalf, Abu etc?

Does your opinion have any basis in fact?

Auggie wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 3:21pm:

It is not based on fact.

It is an opinion.

To have opinion without knowledge, may put us in the position of being the devils advocate.

Any fool can have an opinion.

And an opinion expressed with ill-reasoning and without any substantiating proofs, is a worthless opinion.

And it seems to me, that many of the opinions we see expressed in public online forums, are worthless opinions [i.e. often they appear to be ill-informed opinions].

Whenever i have criticised ISLAM, or criticised the beliefs and/or actions of moslems, i have almost always tried to provided clear and substantiating evidences [to link the actions of those moslems, to ISLAM and its doctrines], to explain and justify my views [opinions].

That often does take some space.

In criticising ISLAM/moslems on public forums i have often suffered disparagement and castigation.

But not many have challenged the evidences [nor the reasoning] that i present, in support of my 'opinions'.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by mortdooley on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:41am

Islam is incompatible with modern civilization! What more is there to say on the subject. Reject Islam everywhere you find it!

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 10:38am

And . . . when there are no infidels within reach, they kill each other.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42850624

Islam should be quarantined, and fed ammunition.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

Maybe because it's common sense??

After all, we're trying to observe a person's behaviour according to human nature, which we all understand.

The fact may be that Muhammad was a warmongering, misogynistic, sadistic mad-man who wanted to conquer the world. There's also enough evidence to show that he wasn't any of those things. Karen Armstrong and other authors have written about Muhammad and violence in religion; and whilst I haven't read those books, they provide ample justifications for why Muhammad behaved the way he did.

Perhaps you should read those books to gain a better perspective.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:49pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

The fact may be that Muhammad was a warmongering, misogynistic, sadistic mad-man who wanted to conquer the world. There's also enough evidence to show that he wasn't any of those things.

Karen Armstrong and other authors have written about Muhammad and violence in religion; and whilst I haven't read those books, they provide ample justifications for why Muhammad behaved the way he did.

Perhaps you should read those books to gain a better perspective.

Karen Armstrong is a well recognised apologist for moslems and ISLAM.

AugCaesarustus,

But you yourself, choose to ignore the 'perspective' about Mohammed, that is freely and plainly offered, 1/ in the Koran, 2/ in the Hadith ?

And you also choose to ignore the 'perspective' of authoritative ISLAMIC scholars who offer an interpretation of those ISLAMIC foundational texts.

Why is that AugCaesarustus ?

Do you judge that the 'opinions' of respected and authoritative ISLAMIC scholars, are worth so little ?

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1509883266/40#40

Quote:

Google

Google;
we are pledging to wage war against all mankind, al-Tabari

[/quote]

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:58pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:49pm:

And you also choose to ignore the 'perspective' of authoritative ISLAMIC scholars who offer an interpretation of those ISLAMIC foundational texts.

Why is that AugCaesarustus ?

Do you judge that the 'opinions' of respected and authoritative ISLAMIC scholars, are worth so little ?

There are also Islamic scholars who have differing points of view, so who's interpretation is to be supreme above all else?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 5:35pm

QUESTION;

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:58pm:

There are also Islamic scholars who have differing points of view,

so who's interpretation is to be supreme above all else?

ANSWER; [easy, peasy.....]

How about, being guided by what Allah and Mohammed said ?

.

WHAT ALLAH SAID.....

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

.

WHAT ALLAH SAID.....

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah [Mohammed] a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."
Koran 33.021

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Agatha on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:43pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:58pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:49pm:

There are also Islamic scholars who have differing points of view, so who's interpretation is to be supreme above all else?

Why do you have to believe any of them?

What is the palatable interpretation of Mohammed's life? I don't think there is any. Harvey Weinstein is a saint by comparison. Mohammed would have no future in showbiz, that's for sure.

But nobody dares draw the parallel.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:58am

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

FD, do you have an opinion?

I'm curious. I'm keen to know what you think.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:19am

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

What books? And why would I read a book recommended to me by someone who lies and then mistakes those lies for an "opinion"? None of your claims are common sense. They are statements about historical events that you simply cannot back up.

Did you get these "opinions" in a book written by Karen Armstrong? Did she give you the idea of telling lies about Muhammad and justifying them by trying to pass them off as just an "opinion"?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 12:55pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:19am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

First of all, I’m not lying about anything. I may be mistaken but I’m not lying.

I got these opinions from my own brain. Is that so hard to believe?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm

You say you are not lying. You also say you invented these claims yourself:

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

You can't have it both ways.

You obviously got them from somewhere, as they are the same lies we see from Muslims here on a regular basis. Or at least, we used to see them, till people figured them out. And you were happy enough to rattle them off without a second thought. So, where did you actually get them from?

And what book do you think I should read? If you got these claims straight from a book, why are you afraid to say so?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:20pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm:

I didn’t get these claims from any book. I said earlier I hadn’t read them.

As I said, I thought up these ideas on my own whim; I didn’t get them from anywhere except my brain.

A lie is defined as an intentional false statement. I am not making a false statement intentionally.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:55pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm:

You don't read, FD. Why are you afraid to express an opinion?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm:

So you are intentionally making "made up" statements about historical facts that you just thought up on a whim, but you think this is different from making "false" statements?

And they just happened to be the same lies that Gandalf, Abu, Falah etc trot out?

How is this any different from telling blatant lies and trying to disguise them as opinion?

Do you often recommend people read books that you have not read yourself?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:17pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm:

FD, why are you afraid to express an opinion?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:32pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

So you are intentionally making "made up" statements about historical facts that you just thought up on a whim, but you think this is different from making "false" statements?

You said the word 'lie', which indicates sinister intent. I have no such sinister intent.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

And they just happened to be the same lies that Gandalf, Abu, Falah etc trot out?

They're not the same lies. They think it was self-defense; I think it was pre-emptive warfare. How do you ensure that your community is safe? By eliminating the opposition or any potential threat. Now, I don't agree with this strategy but it's not unique to Muhammad.

Do you think that Muhammad was a bad leader for the Muslims??

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

How is this any different from telling blatant lies and trying to disguise them as opinion?

Because I don't believe something else to be the truth but am deliberately not telling you the truth. You think they're lies, but for many people it's sheer common-sense if you know anything about history.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Do you often recommend people read books that you have not read yourself?

Do you often accuse people who have a different opinion from you as liars??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:52pm

Earth to Augie, this is what I am talking about:

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

These are not opinions. They are lies about matters of historical fact.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:10pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:17pm:

FD, why are you afraid to express an opinion?

Karnal, why are you afraid to condemn the    very apparent    evil of ISLAM ?

Karnal,

With all of the evidence that is 'in the world', and which is before our eyes,       1/ why aren't you able to 'process' the 'belief' [within yourself],       that all those who self identify as followers of ISLAM, have been seduced and enthralled       by a vicious and deceitful death cult,       and 2/ that followers of ISLAM ought to be confined to those nations which are already moslem majority jurisdictions, and 3/ prohibited from migrating to non-moslem majority nations ?

Dictionary;
enthrall = = capture the fascinated attention of. enslave.

When i say evidence 'in the world', i refer to the contents of the Koran, the Hadith,
and all of the instances [which we see] of moslems justifying their shocking and horrific crimes and atrocities [against those who don't believe as they believe],
as being [crimes and atrocities] allowed by their religion.

Just a single example, of that perverse conviction, which moslems adhere to....

------ >

Spokesmen for ISLAM will tell anyone who will listen;

THAT IT IS WRONG, AND THAT IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW,    TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Here is a moslem in the UK explaining, who the innocent people are.

---------- >

Please watch this YT...
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

Quote:

YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE

"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."

"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:46pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:32pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

So you are intentionally making "made up" statements about historical facts that you just thought up on a whim, but you think this is different from making "false" statements?

You said the word 'lie', which indicates sinister intent. I have no such sinister intent.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

And they just happened to be the same lies that Gandalf, Abu, Falah etc trot out?

How is this any different from telling blatant lies and trying to disguise them as opinion?

Do you often recommend people read books that you have not read yourself?

Do you often accuse people who have a different opinion from you as liars??

No, Augie, sometimes he accuses them of being jellyfish.

The irony is, of course, that FD never reads or references his own arguments. His essays are renowned for referencing his own distorted renditions of something G or Abu once said.

FD lives in a surreal echo chamber, where he attempts to convince himself of his own argument by quoting himself. The more you point this out, the more he digs in. The more compelling your arguments are, the more warped his own arguments become. When he can't defend his position any longer, he simply accuses you of lying - or evading.

Which is most cunning because FD evades each and every question you put to him.

Ultimately, FD argues with himself. He understands your point of view all too well because he used to argue it himself. Everything you're saying here, FD once preached. Read his 2007 posts.

FD is one of the only posters here who refuses to rule out lying. He has argued that they are a useful tactic to confront Muslims and their apologists with. His aim is to put them on the defensive, and draw out a quote he can use for months-long interrogations. He's still interrogating Brian about something he said a few years ago.

FD will pretend to support your right to express an opinion, but he is dead against you having that opinion. When FD talks of freedom of speech, he is solely defending his own right to distort your views.

For FD, freedom of speech is about the right to lie and evade. The "right to be a bigot" is the only aspect of free speech he now defends. FD stands up only for the right to "criticise" and "condemn" Islam and its apologists. He consistently refuses to answer whether he also supports the right to defend Islam; Allah knows he does not support the right to promote it.

Whenever he is asked about his own views on the most fundamental aspect of Western liberalism - the right to intellectual and religious freedom, FD runs.

FD is that most postmodern of Eurocentrists. The aim is to eradicate liberalism and replace it with a studious, rigidly dogmatic groupthink. FD, like others in the "cultural warrior" vein, believes in the use of hegemonic tactics that reverse logic and turn freedom on its head. In this, FD is supported by people like Miranda Divine, Andrew Bolt, and that arch-tactician, Steve Bannon. All use lies (or "alternative facts") to advance their cause, and all run from the truth when confronted.

For these types, truth is merely transactional in the interests of power, and it has always been this way. Donald Trump, of course, has argued just this. Science, legal truths and principles, basic facts - all are up for grabs. This is just the way it works.

And yes, this is of course true - FD recently mentioned Kuhn on this point. But rather than uphold the Western project of aspiring to truth, the ideologue disregards it, at times actively avoiding it - far better to continue with a lie than back down and acknowledge reality.

FD is not interested in your opinions. FD asks you questions to ridicule and make you concede to his.

Remember, as FD once said, sometimes a question is just a question. What sound does a jellyfish make?

That's a question.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:17pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

Prove to me that Muhammad massacred these people because they didn't pose a threat?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:20pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:17pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

Prove to me that Muhammad massacred these people because they didn't pose a threat?

Why? I agree with you that they posed a threat. Let's try again.

Earth to Augie, this is what I am talking about:

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

These are not opinions. They are lies about matters of historical fact.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:25pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN A MOSLEM, augcaesarustus.

So, Yadda, what is the alternative? Wall off the Islamic world from the rest of us and let them kill each other?

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

But if they cease, then stop fighting them....

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

These are marching orders: it is specific - referring to a specific group of people, not disbelievers, forever and ever amen.
Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

And the Torah prescribes the death penalty for cursing one's parents - DEAD.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:26pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:20pm:

Why? I agree with you that they posed a threat.

So, if they posed a threat, then that's the end of the argument.

Q.E.D.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:28pm

Do you agree that these claims of your are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:20pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:17pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

Prove to me that Muhammad massacred these people because they didn't pose a threat?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:31pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:28pm:

Do you agree that these claims of your are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

You just conceded that the Jews were a threat to Muhammad and his community.

End of the argument.

Q.E.D.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:37pm

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

Do you agree that these claims of yours are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:40pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:37pm:

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

All of these claims indicate the Jews were a threat, a point to which you've conceded.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:37pm:

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

I'm happy to talk about his genocide if you like and his motives. Are you willing to move on from trying to call me out as a liar?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:01pm

Karnal,

FD has logged off.

Have anything to say during the impending silence?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:09pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:37pm:

All of these claims indicate the Jews were a threat, a point to which you've conceded.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:37pm:

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

I'm happy to talk about his genocide if you like and his motives. Are you willing to move on from trying to call me out as a liar?

The fact that they were a political or even military threat does not mean you are not lying about them. They were a political threat because Muhamamad equated political alliance with conversion. They were a military threat from the day Muhammad threatened to massacre Jews if they did not convert, and started killing and robbing their allies from Mecca.

One more time for the slow:

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

Do you agree that these claims of yours are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Why is it that these lies, that you claim to have concocted yourself, are the same ones we have been fed by Muslims over the years, which they also refused to reveal the source for?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:25pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Ok, so you think the Jews would've been content living under a centralized state established by Muhammad? You don't think that if the Jews had said to Muhammad: "OK, we'll be happy to live under your governance, but if you could left us worship God and retain our practices" that Muhammad would've said no?

If it were possible to have allegiance to Muhammad's state and retain your own beliefs then this would've been acceptable. Problem was that they were all tribes and wouldn't have accepted the idea of an empire or centralized state. You think the Gauls just accepted Roman dominance over their lands without fighting? If Vercingetorix had just said: "All right Caesar, we'll live under your rule but let us worship our pagan gods and retain our practices," you don't think the Romans would've accepted that rathern than spilling blood beforehand???

Conversion was a matter of allegiance. The idea of being a Jew but being loyal to an Islamic State was not known in Arab world. Tribes don't work the same way we do in nation-states. It was the same in Torah: being loyal to the pagan gods and being a loyal to the Jews was impossible.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

I'm not defending his genocide, nor any other genocide. If you perceive something to be a threat, what's the best way to get rid of that rid of that threat? Back in tribal societies, it was through massacring.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Do you agree that these claims of yours are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

They are my opinion. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:34pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

Karnal,

FD has logged off.

Have anything to say during the impending silence?

Sometimes a question is just a question.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 9:34pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN A MOSLEM, augcaesarustus.

So, Yadda, what is the alternative?

Wall off the Islamic world from the rest of us and let them kill each other?

AugCaesarustus,

Not 'wall the ISLAMIC world off from the rest of us'.

Rather, our laws should prohibit any person who self identifies as a follower of ISLAM from living in our open and free society.

[....for the reasons i have previously stated.
1/ Being a follower of ISLAM, and 2/ living in a free and open society, are totally incompatible paths, and, mutually exclusive paths. ]

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

And the Torah prescribes the death penalty for cursing one's parents - DEAD.

Yes it does.

AugCaesarustus,

ISLAMIC law, or Torah law.

If i must choose one, i know which of those two laws i would choose to live under.

IMAGE....

.

A small snippet from Torah law....

Exodus 21:12
He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee.
14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed:
19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.
20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

.

Fundamental ISLAMIC values......

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith."
Koran 5.101, 102

.

Fundamental Christian and Jewish values......

Quote:

"When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.

To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself.

One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed."

- Theodore Dalrymple
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/

Dictionary;
probity = = honesty and decency.

The scripture which supports such values....

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 9:48pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN A MOSLEM, augcaesarustus.

So, Yadda, what is the alternative?

Wall off the Islamic world from the rest of us and let them kill each other?

AugCaesarustus,

Being obviously so well versed in ISLAM's ways,       you would surely know already, that moslems have been slaughtering each other,
since two minutes after Mohammed died.

Nature of the beast, AugCaesarustus,       ...the nature of the beast.

AugCaesarustus,

QUESTION;
What right have we got [as ignorant and presumptuous infidels],          to judge, or to interfere, with what moslems do to each other,
within the confines of their own ISLAMIC culture, i ask !          :D

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 8:51am

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

Do you agree that these claims of yours are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

They are my opinion. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

They are lies regarding matters of historical facts. Are you saying you fabricated these "opinions" entirely on your own and just happened to come up with the same ones as other Muslims have trotted out here?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

What is the difference between a fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality and a lie?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:33am

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 8:51am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Why are you so desperate to find a way to defend Muhammad's genocide, even though to claim to disapprove?

Do you agree that these claims of yours are lies about historical facts, not merely matters of opinion?

They are my opinion. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

They are lies regarding matters of historical facts. Are you saying you fabricated these "opinions" entirely on your own and just happened to come up with the same ones as other Muslims have trotted out here?

What sound does a jellyfish make?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

What is the difference between a fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality and a lie?

Something tells me you know the answer to this.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:59am

Quote:

What is the difference between a fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality and a lie?

Something tells me you know the answer to this.

Yes I know the answer, but I would be interested to hear your opinion on the matter, as it obviously differs from that of normal people.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:16am

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:59am:

Quote:

What is the difference between a fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality and a lie?

Something tells me you know the answer to this.

Yes I know the answer, but I would be interested to hear your opinion on the matter, as it obviously differs from that of normal people.

You've already heard my opinion, and I have stated it.

Why are you so hell-bent on trying to call me out as a liar? Is it because you know you're wrong???

You know, FD, if I had a bit more computer savvy, I'd hack into the OzPol server and take over OzPol myself (crossing the cyber Rubicon as it were), and have you dethroned from your position as Supreme Leader. Your reign of tyranny must end.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:45am

No you haven't. But feel free to quote your previous answer if you think it exists.

What is the difference between a lie and a fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 11:53am

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:45am:

A lie is sinister in intention. An opinion is personal belief.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm

During the invasion of Iraq by Bush and Blair, a friend of mine in the US said, "You'll hear every kind of opinion on this, and everyone of them is based on some kind of lie."

Where religion is ostensibly concerned with a creator of the universe, it is opinion, belief, and lie all rolled into one.

The aboriginal Dreamtime is as big a lie as the divine right of kings.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:29pm

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:59am:

Quote:

What is the difference between a fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality and a lie?

Something tells me you know the answer to this.

Yes I know the answer.

Ah.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:48pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm:

So, that means that what FD is saying is also a lie??

I'm willing to admit that I'm telling lies, if FD is willing to admit that he is also telling lies?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:20pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:48pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm:

So, that means that what FD is saying is also a lie??

I'm willing to admit that I'm telling lies, if FD is willing to admit that he is also telling lies?

Ask FD if he believes in the use of lies in his campaign against Muslims and the tinted races. Ask him that, Augie.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:38pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Yeah, well issue, when some king has his sword at your throat, you can tell him all about it.       :P

That he has no divine right, to run you through.       ;)          ;D

I'm sure that will save you.          /sarc off

Wisdom word's.....

Proverbs 8:14
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
.....
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:40pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:38pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Do you fear the LORD?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:47pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:38pm:

Yeah, well issue, when some king has his sword at your throat, you can tell him all about it.       :P

That he has no divine right, to run you through.       ;)          ;D

I'm sure that will save you.          /sarc off

n.b.
There are lots of people alive today, who believe that THEY, themselves, enjoy a sovereign's prerogative, to do, just exactly what they wish to do!

They fancy, themselves as being defacto 'kings' and 'queens'.

This world, circa 2018, is a dangerous place.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:58pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:40pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:38pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Do you fear the LORD?

Yes i do.

But not nearly, as perfectly as i should. !!!!!

I'm a flawed human being.

I live in this world, and i am subject to all of the distractions, and the temptations, that any other human being suffers here.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Psalms 78:38
But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.

Psalms 63:1
O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;
2 To see thy power and thy glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:32pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Yes i do.

But not nearly, as perfectly as i should.

Are you referring to the way you, perhaps rather uncharitably, spend your days hurling vitriol and demonizing muslims?

...or is it that you don't demonize them enough?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:32pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Yes i do.

But not nearly, as perfectly as i should.

Are you referring to the way you, perhaps rather uncharitably, spend your days hurling vitriol and demonizing muslims?

...or is it that you don't demonize them enough?

gandalf,

QUESTION;
Are you a follower of a philosophy/'religion' called ISLAM ?

A simple YES, or, NO, will suffice.

And what is my sin, my 'error' gandalf ?

To try to shame murderers and wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

Psalms 15:1
LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

.

gandalf,

Mainstream ISLAMIC religious texts, call on the followers of ISLAM, to fight and kill those who stand apart from, and reject ISLAM.

And ISLAM calls on its followers to fight and to kill 'disbelievers', because, 'disbelievers' don't believe what the followers of ISLAM believe.

Every moslem in Australia, is a moslem.

By definition, every moslem is a follower of ISLAM.

And every follower of ISLAM, is a supporter of what ISLAM and ISLAMIC law, endorses, promotes, encourages,
and is a supporter of prohibiting, what ISLAM and ISLAMIC law prohibits.

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"
- Yadda

QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

.

ARGUMENT;
There is an identifiable group of people, who do, facilitate, enable, encourage and commit acts of terror,
as an endorsed cultural modality.

They are called moslems.

They are the followers, of ISLAM.

WAKE UP PEOPLE !

.

The precepts of ISLAM require moslems to fight and to kill persons who reject ISLAM.

And ISLAM calls on moslems to fight, and to destroy and to kill Allah's enemies.

Killing the disbeliever [to the moslem], is performing 'good works' for his faith.

Killing the disbeliever, is what all of the religious precepts of ISLAM direct him to do.

All moslems are taught, by ISLAM's precepts, to be combatants, against Allah's enemies.

To fight, to kill, those who 'disbelieve'.

.

Spokesmen for ISLAM will tell anyone who will listen;

THAT IT IS WRONG, AND THAT IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW, TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Here is a moslem in the UK explaining, who the innocent people are.

---------- >

Please watch this YT...
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

Quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:05pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:32pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Yes i do.

But not nearly, as perfectly as i should.

Are you referring to the way you, perhaps rather uncharitably, spend your days hurling vitriol and demonizing muslims?

...or is it that you don't demonize them enough?

And a question gandalf;

Why is 'Aussie' moslem, Ali Kadri, barefacedly, lying to his fellow Australians about ISLAMIC teachings ?

IMAGE.....

Ali Kadri - Islamic Council of Queensland vice-president,
features in The Mosque Next Door on SBS.

Quote:

"There's no underlying religious text or reasons why [moslems] go out and kill people......"

- Ali Kadri
------- >
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/we-wont-stop-terrorist-attacks-by-blaming-islam/3259588/

.

WHAT ALLAH SAYS.....

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

.

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:12pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm:

And what is my sin, my 'error' gandalf ?

To try to shame murderers and wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

Your sin, your error - if it really needs to be spelled out for you - is to smear the entire muslim population as murderers and wanna-be murderers in the first place.

Why am I even answering you? You're just going to "respond" with your usual montage of quranic quotes and incriminating photos. carry on.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm:

And what is my sin, my 'error' gandalf ?

To try to shame murderers and wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:05pm:

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

You deny the authenticity of this Hadith, even though Sahih Bukhari is considered authentic within in Sunni Islam?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm:

And what is my sin, my 'error' gandalf ?

To try to shame murderers and wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

My omission and mistake gandalf.

I apologise.

I meant to say;

To try to shame murderers and latent wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

IMAGE.....

ISLAM is a ONE party, TOTALITARIAN SYSTEM

As that words in that image state gandalf,

ISLAM is NOT a religion.

Yet ISLAM does cloak itself, indeed VEILS itself, behind the word 'RELIGION'.

In truth, ISLAM is a violent [and very secular and 'worldly'] expression of political fascism.

Violent Koranic verses [and there are many of them!!!], are all about directing raw, violent political power.

And ISLAM is, ...a system of laws.

ARGUMENT;

ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION [ .....well, not in any traditional sense of what the word 'religion' means].

e.g.
ISLAM IS NOT ABOUT THE PASSIVE PRACTICE OF - WORSHIPPING - A SUPREME BEING.

ISLAM is about establishing raw, violent political power over every human being on this planet.

And the 'righteous' means of establishing that violent political power over every human being on this planet, is accomplished by the 'vehicles' of political deceit and political violence.

e.g.

Quote:

Pakistani cleric: 'We want Islamic law for all Pakistan and then the world.

We would like to do this by preaching.

But if not then we would use force.'

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/12/pakistani-cleric-we-want-islamic-law-for-all-pakistan-and-then-the-world-we-would-like-to-do-this-by.html

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 7:19am

Auggie wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 11:53am:

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:45am:

A lie is sinister in intention. An opinion is personal belief.

And where does a "fabricated opinion regarding matters of historical fact that has no basis in reality" fit into that?

Are you saying that your lie is not a lie because your intentions are good?

Auggie wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:48pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 1:25pm:

So, that means that what FD is saying is also a lie??

I'm willing to admit that I'm telling lies, if FD is willing to admit that he is also telling lies?

Which ones were lies?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:32am

Auggie wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm:

And what is my sin, my 'error' gandalf ?

To try to shame murderers and wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:05pm:

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

You deny the authenticity of this Hadith, even though Sahih Bukhari is considered authentic within in Sunni Islam?

Yes.

And besides, even if this 200 year old oral chinese whisper could somehow be deemed as authentic (God knows how) - if you actually read the hadith fully, it says 'so and so said the prophet said...' - thus you could argue the hadith is 'sahih' in the sense that Bukhari is accurately reporting the claim - but he has no way of verifying whether or not the claim is true - and indeed is not even attempting to do so.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:32am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:56pm:

And what is my sin, my 'error' gandalf ?

To try to shame murderers and wanna-be murderers, with the truth ?

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:05pm:

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

You deny the authenticity of this Hadith, even though Sahih Bukhari is considered authentic within in Sunni Islam?

Ok, but you understand that most Muslims don’t deny the veracity of this Hadith?

Second, aren’t you now just cherry-picking? Choosing to belief one piece of authentic scripture over another?? Is this the ‘anything goes’ approach you’re talking about??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:43pm

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Well, that’s fine so long as he’s consistent. He can be a Qurani but then he has to solely reject the entire Hadith. It’s either: sola Quran, or the Quran and the entire authentic Hadith. Any thing in between is ‘anything goes.’

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 3:32pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Yes i do.

But not nearly, as perfectly as i should.

Are you referring to the way you, perhaps rather uncharitably, spend your days hurling vitriol and demonizing muslims?

...or is it that you don't demonize them enough?

IMAGE.....

The influence of fundamental Christian and Jewish values, WRIT LARGE......

Quote:

“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small.

In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better.

When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.

To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself.

One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed.

A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.

I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

- Theodore Dalrymple
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/repost-quote-of-the-century/

Dictionary;
probity = = honesty and decency.

.

A question gandalf;

Why is 'Aussie' moslem, Ali Kadri, barefacedly, lying to his fellow Australians about ISLAMIC teachings ?

ISLAMIC teachings from Koran cited here ----- >
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516565029/127#127

IMAGE.....

Ali Kadri - Islamic Council of Queensland vice-president,
features in The Mosque Next Door on SBS.

Quote:

"There's no underlying religious text or reasons why [moslems] go out and kill people......"

- Ali Kadri
------- >
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/we-wont-stop-terrorist-attacks-by-blaming-islam/3259588/

.

"ISLAM ES PAZ"

IMAGE.....

~~And pigs might fly - in Barcelona~~.

Everyone knows that true ISLAM, is a religion of peace.

/sarc off

Quote:

When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.

To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself.

- Theodore Dalrymple

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:02pm

Yadda, can you post the one where a Muslim says that ‘Australia is a Muslim country’.

I find that quite funny.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:12pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

Yadda, can you post the one where a Muslim says that ‘Australia is a Muslim country’.

I find that quite funny.

augcaesarustus,

That news report, "Australia is Muslim nation, Ali says", is quoted in my post here.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516142236/2#2

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:13pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Incorrect, hermeneutics is not encoursged in Sunni Islam.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:15pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:12pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

Yadda, can you post the one where a Muslim says that ‘Australia is a Muslim country’.

I find that quite funny.

augcaesarustus,

That news report, "Australia is Muslim nation, Ali says", is quoted in my post here.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516142236/2#2

Thank you. It’s one of the most absurd claims I’ve ever heard.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:15pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Incorrect, hermeneutics is not encoursged in Sunni Islam.

What do you think all those Islamic scholars do?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:15pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Incorrect, hermeneutics is not encoursged in Sunni Islam.

What do you think all those Islamic scholars do?

Apologetics.

That's what they always do. The 'golden age' of Muslim translation of the ancients was nothing but selective translations of what supported Islam.

And all those translations were done by conquered Christians and Jews. Intellectually, Islam is negligible, like Leninism, Stalinism, Hitlerism and the rest of them, because it's first principles are openly against free enquiry.

Oppression and demanding blind submission are at the very heart of Islam.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:48pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

I guess he is consistent in his agenda - trying to paint Islam in a positive light for a non-Muslim audience. It doesn't always work out that way, like with the mindless collective of treacherous Jews thing. But he usually cottons on eventually and stops pulling out those lines. The way I see it, if you reinterpret bits of the Quran to have the opposite of the intended meaning, then you are picking and choosing which bits of the Quran are true also.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:19pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:15pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Incorrect, hermeneutics is not encoursged in Sunni Islam.

What do you think all those Islamic scholars do?

Sit around and play with their dicks all day.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:53pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:19pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:15pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Incorrect, hermeneutics is not encoursged in Sunni Islam.

What do you think all those Islamic scholars do?

Sit around and play with their dicks all day.

After they've squatted down to pee, eh?

You're getting it, Augie.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:53pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:19pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:15pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

Incorrect, hermeneutics is not encoursged in Sunni Islam.

What do you think all those Islamic scholars do?

Sit around and play with their dicks all day.

After they've squatted down to pee, eh?

You're getting it, Augie.

And long after going to the toilet.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:15pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Would you like to compare what people ‘believe’ as opposed to what’s in scripture?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Actually, scrap that. Allow me to show some backbone for once in my spineless life.

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy. Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted. And yes, some of this can be attributed to the zealous tone taken in the Quran.

I believe such Muslims are apostates. There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues, what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion. What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds. I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:42pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Now you’re being an apologist as opposed to a reformer. You’re claiming that Islam doesn’t teach slaying infidels and offensive jihad and that it never did. This is utterly false. Islam imposed universal obligations on all Muslims to support the establishment of the caliphate and an Islamic state.

What a reformer does (and what I expect you and Gandalf to do) is to acknowledge that Islam is a totalitarian, militant and absolutist religion but that these aspects are wrong and are no longer applicable. This is what a real reformer does.

If you want to show spine, show it by acknowledging that Islam teaches the slaying of infidels but that you don’t supoort this idea.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:48pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy.

Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted.

I believe such Muslims are apostates.

How can your view be the correct view, for the moslem, Karnal,
when Allah, in the inerrant Koran, plainly says exactly the opposite ?

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. [NOT IN THE KORAN]

Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues,

what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion.

[TRUE KARNAL ------- > http://thereligionofpeace.com/ ]

What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds.

I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

No Karnal,

This quote, much better, speaks of you, and of yours......

Of those who turn away from truth.....

Quote:

- Theodore Dalrymple

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:30am

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam. It's incompatible with slaying infidels, and every Muslim I've ever met says the same. Jihad is a spiritual struggle, as every schoolboy knows.

Those who slay infidels are the apostates. They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed. Don't listen to me. Read the Quran. Read every other spiritual text you can get your hands on.

But most importantly, find a spiritual practice you can live with. All else - killing infidels or apostates or merely spending your days here blaming others for your woes - is false religion.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:31am

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:30am:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Your LIES are so easy to disprove K.

"Those who slay infidels are the apostates.
....Don't listen to me.
Read the Quran."
- Karnal

.

WHAT ALLAH SAID.....

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111

"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
Koran 4.49

"Those who believed and left their homes and strove for the cause of allah, and those who took them in and helped them - these are the believers in truth. For them is pardon, and bountiful provision."
Koran 8.74

"Unless ye go forth, he will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For allah hath power over all things"
Koran 9.39

"Those who leave their homes in the cause of allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will allah bestow verily a goodly provision: Truly allah is he who bestows the best provision"
Koran 22.58

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #004.052.065
hadith/bukhari #004.052.080

n.b.
......"He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #001.002.025

.

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.053

"The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is! Were it not for some men amongst the believers who dislike to be left behind me and whom I cannot provide with means of conveyance, I would certainly never remain behind any Sariya' (army-unit) setting out in Allah's Cause. By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.054

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.072

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:07pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Apostates from Islam, or from your religion? Aren't you just doing Augie's trick of redefining their religion for them?

Quote:

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam. It's incompatible with slaying infidels

How so?

Quote:

Those who slay infidels are the apostates.

Was Muhammad an apostate?

Quote:

They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed.

Was Muhammad deluded about the true meaning of Muhammad?

Quote:

Don't listen to me.

Thanks for the advice.

Quote:

Read the Quran.

The Quran says to slaughter the infidel.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm

K, now you're just virtue-signalling and equivocating.

Let's say for hypothetical sake I was a committed Nazi from birth; my family are Nazis, I read Nazi material and my whole identity was Nazism. But, I shunned violence, and militarism because I found those things abhorrent.

Imagine I come on here and say: "Nazism is a peaceful ideology." Most people, including yourself would laugh at me. But, let's say you decide to go along with it, and debate me.

Your argument would quote Mein Kampf and all the verses in it that support the Nazi ideology. For e.g. the idea of Labensraum, and Hitler's view on Slavs, Karnal says: "Look at what Hitler said about Slavs; he said they were inferior and the lowest of society. What do you say to that?" As a committed Nazi, I respond: "Well, Hitler was talking about 'cultural' inferiority; he wasn't referring to them being sub-human...." You see now, how I'm interpreting Hitler's views to reconcile my identity?

Let's talk another example: what Hitler did (imagine the Sunnah of Hitler). Karnal says: "Hitler invaded Poland and France and wanted to conquer Europe, so he was warmonger who committed aggressive warfare." I then respond: "Well, actually no, the rest of Europe was threatening Germany; they wouldn't eventually have accepted German dominance in Europe despite appeasement, and they did nothing about Soviet Communism in the East. Hitler was also protecting German minorities in those countries. He was engaging in self-defence. IN FACT, AFTER HITLER CONQUERED PARIS, THE FRENCH SURRENDERED AND HITLER CREATED VICHY FRANCE, GIVING THE FRENCH AUTONOMY. Is this the action of an offensive warmonger? Wouldn't Germany have just conquered all of France if he were a warmonger? The French ceased and Hitler gave them their own State."

Let's have another example: the Holocaust. Karnal says: "The Nazis enslaved people and exterminated them. This isn't the action of a benevolent conqueror?" Caesar replies: "Well, they were enemies of the state. Their internment was only designed to be temporary. Did people die? Sure, but they weren't innocent because they wouldn't have ever accepted the Nazi ideology and the supremacy of a German-dominated Europe. If they simply became Nazi converts and accepted Hitler's supremacy, maybe they Hitler would've shown mercy." You see where this line of thinking is similar to the Muslim apologists?

Now, you might argue: "Well Caesar, Hitler isn't a Prophet; God didn't dictate Mein Kampf to Hitler, and therefore the comparison is not valid". To which I respond: "No, K, I believe that Hitler was inspired by superior thinking and rationale and that he was smarter than the average human..... His views would've made a better world; if only people had just accepted his ideology and a German-dominated Europe."

You see the similarities??

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:01pm

Karnal said....

Quote:

They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed.

freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:07pm:

Was Muhammad deluded about the true meaning of Muhammad?

LOL !

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm:

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:34pm

Karnal wrote: Reply #156 - Today at 2:30am

Quote:

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam. It's incompatible with slaying infidels,

Bulldust.

Quote:

The Shahadah is the first of the Five Pillars of Islam.

Shahadah:

"There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."

This is the basic statement of the Islamic faith: anyone who cannot recite this wholeheartedly is not a Muslim.

When a Muslim recites this they proclaim:
•That Allah is the only God, and that Muhammad is his prophet
•That they personally accept this as true
•That they will obey all the commitments of Islam in their life

If there is no god but allah and muhammad is his prophet, they are bound to follow the commands of allah given to muhammad in the qur'an.

The qur'an is cited by muslim terrorists as the cause and motivation for islamic terrorism on a global scale.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 4:29pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm:

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

Islam is also an expansionist political movement, Karnal. Nazism is also a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. Karnal just agrees himself.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 5:29pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Is it? The extent of Islam's spiritualism is Submit and er... that's it!!!

It is a simple performative religion, as you would expect from anything that means Submission. It;'s entire claim on you is to DISPLAY, outwardly, your conformity.

There is no communing with your soul, your god, your conscience, there is no doubt, questions and wrestling with meaning - just ACT submissive and that's it.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:13pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm:

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

Islam is an expansionist, militant movement. That's how it spread through most of western civilisation. As the Quran says, fighting is ordained for Muslims.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 9:30am

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Would you like to compare what people ‘believe’ as opposed to what’s in scripture?

Yes lets do that. Its what I've been spending most of my time doing here. FD for one completely rejects the idea that there is any discrepancy between muslim's belief that apostates must be killed and what Islamic texts say. Ditto for pretty much every barbaric/violent belief that muslims hold. Not for peaceful/tolerant beliefs though, muslims are wrong when they believe those things you see.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 11:40am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Would you like to compare what people ‘believe’ as opposed to what’s in scripture?

Really? So the Hadith which prescribes death for a person who leaves Islam is a discrepancy?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 12:22pm

Quote:

Ditto for pretty much every barbaric/violent belief that muslims hold.

Are you referring to your belief that Muhammad was justified in committing genocide because they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 2:10pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 11:40am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Would you like to compare what people ‘believe’ as opposed to what’s in scripture?

Really? So the Hadith which prescribes death for a person who leaves Islam is a discrepancy?

I call it bullshit - a piece of bullshit that directly contradicts the Quran (2:256 as well as 18:29)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 11:40am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Would you like to compare what people ‘believe’ as opposed to what’s in scripture?

Really? So the Hadith which prescribes death for a person who leaves Islam is a discrepancy?

I call it bullshit - a piece of bullshit that directly contradicts the Quran (2:256 as well as 18:29)

Ok, so let's break this down.

Surah 2 (Al-Baqara) was the first Surah revealed to Muhammad after moving to Medina so it's quite early on in the piece. That verse is superseded by later verses in Surah 5 and 9, which are the last verses of the Quran. Second, Surah 18 is a Meccan verse, so it doesn't apply.

Q.E.D.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:48pm

Doesn't apply to what?

You seem to assume that I take for granted whatever conclusions you are making about the timeline-determines-legitimacy of the Quran. Needless to say I don't.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:48pm:

Doesn't apply to what?

You seem to assume that I take for granted whatever conclusions you are making about the timeline-determines-legitimacy of the Quran. Needless to say I don't.

Islamic practice has something known as 'abrogation'. Surely, you've heard of it?

It states that the later verses supersede the earlier verses.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 5:47pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:48pm:

Doesn't apply to what?

You seem to assume that I take for granted whatever conclusions you are making about the timeline-determines-legitimacy of the Quran. Needless to say I don't.

Islamic practice has something known as 'abrogation'. Surely, you've heard of it?

It states that the later verses supersede the earlier verses.

Its all feeble-minded bullsh1t anyway.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 7:18pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:48pm:

Doesn't apply to what?

You seem to assume that I take for granted whatever conclusions you are making about the timeline-determines-legitimacy of the Quran. Needless to say I don't.

Islamic practice has something known as 'abrogation'. Surely, you've heard of it?

No it doesn't.

I've dealt with this misnomer plenty of times - including when you've been around. You should have noticed.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 7:19pm

I don't recall it.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 7:47pm

you don''t recall many things FD. Usually you just make up crap and pretend you recalled it.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 8:26pm

Gandalf would it be fair to say that your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme has no Quranic backing, other than a compulsion to support Muhammad's genocide?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 9:10pm

Well, yes, all very interesting, but The Islamic Way is personified in Salah Abdeslam. He is utterly convinced that the attack in Paris was justified, and unfortunately, he is not alone. He also, like Gandalf, believes that Mohamed is the messenger of God. He claims he is not affraid. Brave guy, now that he is protected by the laws of the people he hates. That is also, The Islamic Way, use our laws against us.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5501971/paris-attack-suspect-salah-abdeslam-terror-trial-latest-news/

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by gandalf on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:30am

Gosh Issue, are you actually saying that a terrorist thinks that terrorism is justified??

Stop the press!

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 12:42pm

Gandalf where did you get your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme from? The Quran?

Does this count as me calling out barbaric/violent beliefs that Muslims hold as having no Quranic basis?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Gosh Issue, are you actually saying that a terrorist thinks that terrorism is justified??

Stop the press!

Salah a terrorist? Not according to him. He's a Muzlim doing the work the Prophet and Allah commands. But by calling him a terrorist, you can hope to disassociate yourself with him, at least in public.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 9:08pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 12:42pm:

Gandalf where did you get your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme from?

Oh, that's easy, FD.

G got it from you.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 9:35pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Gosh Issue, are you actually saying that a terrorist thinks that terrorism is justified??

Stop the press!

By the Koran.

Don't leave out the crucial point about the authority of the justification, deceiver.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 12:09am

Frank wrote on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Gosh Issue, are you actually saying that a terrorist thinks that terrorism is justified??

Stop the press!

By the Koran.

Don't leave out the crucial point about the authority of the justification, deceiver.

Ah yes, but on what authority do you use to justify ripping the burqas off the ladies' faces and exposing them, once and for all, as the villain?

Oh, that's right. You're a Lacanian, no?

Just think, they would have got away with it if it wasn't for those miserable kids.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 12:09am:

Frank wrote on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Gosh Issue, are you actually saying that a terrorist thinks that terrorism is justified??

Stop the press!

By the Koran.

Don't leave out the crucial point about the authority of the justification, deceiver.

How many people have been killed by Muslim terrorists because of what the Koran and Islam teach?

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Oh, that's right. You're a Paki.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:38pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Both are religiously motivated, Soren. Both are the same because they misinterpret the messages of their religion to justify their (your) persecution. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Both are religiously motivated, Soren. Both are the same because they misinterpret the messages of their religion to justify their (your) persecution. Tsk, tsk. ::)

;D ;D ;D ;D

So murder is like ripping off a niqab in your universe, Bwian.

And you are reinforcing your status as the idiotic spineless apologist bar none for proposing that niqabs get ripped off for religious reasons. You assert without a shred of evidence, you silly old woman. You think sounding all mumsy and smelling of cat piss and tut-tutting carries some sort of intellectual authority. You are pathetic, Bwian. Stupid, spineless and pathetic.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:17pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Both are religiously motivated, Soren. Both are the same because they misinterpret the messages of their religion to justify their (your) persecution. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Gosh, Soren, I really do think it's time you ran along back to your little kiddies' playground. It is obvious you don't or won't understand the rules in the big kids' playground. Tsk, tsk, I wonder who left the gate open and let you out? Was it that naughty girlfriend of yours, Karnal? ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:30pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Both are religiously motivated, Soren. Both are the same because they misinterpret the messages of their religion to justify their (your) persecution. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian you appear to be conceding that Islam does indeed inspire Muslims to murder people. That sounds an aweful lot like criticism of Islam. Do you have the right to say these things?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:34pm

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Both are religiously motivated, Soren. Both are the same because they misinterpret the messages of their religion to justify their (your) persecution. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian you appear to be conceding that Islam does indeed inspire Muslims to murder people. That sounds an aweful lot like criticism of Islam. Do you have the right to say these things?

As much as Christianity does, FD. Do you concede that there are Christian Terrorists, inspired by Christianity to murder people?

Or are all Christians innocent of such crimes?

If so, then most Muslims are also innocent of being Terrorists.

Choice is yours... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:39pm

Most Muslims are not terrorists Brian. They just excuse terrorism, like Gandalf with his mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme.

Have you suddenly developed the right to criticise Islam? Or have you always been able to get away with hinting at criticism of Islam if you carefully wrap it in criticism of Christianity?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 9:11pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 12:09am:

Frank wrote on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Gosh Issue, are you actually saying that a terrorist thinks that terrorism is justified??

Stop the press!

By the Koran.

Don't leave out the crucial point about the authority of the justification, deceiver.

How many people have been killed by Muslim terrorists because of what the Koran and Islam teach?

Now that's a good question. How many people have been killed in Australia by ladies in burqas because of what the Koran and Islam teach?

I can't find the precise number on Google. What's your count, dear boy?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 9:14pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

How many niqabs and hijabs have been torn off? Give us the stats and also explain why you equate religiously motivated murders with unmasking someone on the street.

Both are religiously motivated, Soren. Both are the same because they misinterpret the messages of their religion to justify their (your) persecution. Tsk, tsk. ::)

;D ;D ;D ;D

So murder is like ripping off a niqab in your universe, Bwian.

No no, that was your idea, remember? How many have had their burqas ripped off? How many have been killed by...?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 9:16pm

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:39pm:

Most Muslims are not terrorists Brian.

Thank you, Freediver. Now, how about Christian Terrorists? Do they exist or not? I note you failed to answer that question. I wonder why? Choice is yours... ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 9:17pm

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:39pm:

Most Muslims are not terrorists Brian. They just excuse terrorism, like Gandalf with his mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme.

Good point, FD, I remember now. G introduced the word meme.

You introduced the mindless collective of treacherous Jews with no individuality whatsoever, etc, etc, so unfair.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 10:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 9:16pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:39pm:

Most Muslims are not terrorists Brian.

Thank you, Freediver. Now, how about Christian Terrorists? Do they exist or not? I note you failed to answer that question. I wonder why? Choice is yours... ::)

No, they don't exist.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 10:41pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 10:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 9:16pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 7:39pm:

Most Muslims are not terrorists Brian.

Thank you, Freediver. Now, how about Christian Terrorists? Do they exist or not? I note you failed to answer that question. I wonder why? Choice is yours... ::)

No, they don't exist.

Tell it to the perpetrators, Soren. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Oh, and not all Christians are white, either...

::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 11:06pm

Nah, not Christians.

Tsk, tsk, Bwian. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:33am

Not all facists are Christian either eh bwian...

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:37am

oh and bwian....
How many people in those photos cry GOD IS GREAT whilst killing people etc, etc, etc.... oh right that's the ISLAMIC WAY. :D :D :D :D :D ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 11:31am

I’d like to remind some people that the peaceful majority don’t matter. What matters is the organised and militant minority. The biggest threat to global peaceful and security at the moment is Islamism (yes I’m changing terms here). There is a rising and significant minority of Muslims who support the Islamist project and this is an issue. Islamists are found among conservative Muslims primarily.

Of course, Muslims have the right to be islamists just as white people have the right to be national socialists. They are not the enemy but they’re not the solution either.

The other point is that yes there are terrorist who are inspired by Christianity but there needs to be a distinction: they are not a threat to world peace and security at the moment.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 11:51am

Grendel wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:33am:

Not all facists are Christian either eh bwian...

Gott mit uns, nein?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:00pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 11:31am:

I’d like to remind some people that the peaceful majority don’t matter. What matters is the organised and militant minority. The biggest threat to global peaceful and security at the moment is Islamism (yes I’m changing terms here). There is a rising and significant minority of Muslims who support the Islamist project and this is an issue. Islamists are found among conservative Muslims primarily.

Of course, Muslims have the right to be islamists just as white people have the right to be national socialists. They are not the enemy but they’re not the solution either.

The other point is that yes there are terrorist who are inspired by Christianity but there needs to be a distinction: they are not a threat to world peace and security at the moment.

augcaesarustus,

Can you give us some examples of how Christianity [specifically] has inspired terrorists ?

There are many contrary indications contained in Christian scripture....

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

Proverbs 22:24
Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.

Proverbs 28:7
Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father.

Romans 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord

1 Peter 2:13
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
.....
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:12pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 11:06pm:

Nah, not Christians.

According to whom, Soren? You? Tsk, tsk, they believe they are Christians defending the Christian faith. Whom am I to dispute it? ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

From The Bible? Definitely. The Old Testament is full of inspiration like that. Tsk, tsk. Until Christians repudiate and abandon The Old Testament from The Bible, it will continue to inspire Christian Terrorists... ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:20pm

Bwian is just one of those USEFUL IDIOTS everyone talks about... he's a DR of Divinity with no MORAL COMPASS, he's happy to lie and be a hypocrite even when he know's he's wrong.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

The OT is the Hebrew Bible bwian it covers the religious history of the Jews.

Christ wasn't even born then, you find his teachings in the NEW Testament bwian... that's why its called the NEW Testament bwian. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Some DroD you turn out to be. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Have another try Brian. Do you think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:50pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Come on, Brian. Stop obfuscating. I've met you halfway here, I expect you to do the same.

Stop equivocating. FD asked you about the difference between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Muhammad. Nothing to do with the OT.

Please answer the question.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:29pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Why? When he answers my questions, I may deign to answer his, Augie. FD likes to answer questions with questions, rather than answers. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Poor, poor, Soren. Where have I been dishonest? I am sticking to my point - Christians take inspiration from The Old Testament to mount their Terrorist attacks on innocent people. Isn't that what you want to do, Soren? Naughty you. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 12:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Why? When he answers my questions, I may deign to answer his, Augie. FD likes to answer questions with questions, rather than answers. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian are you suggesting you would be capable of giving a straight answer if someone else asked the question?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 2:09pm

freediver wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Why? When he answers my questions, I may deign to answer his, Augie. FD likes to answer questions with questions, rather than answers. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian are you suggesting you would be capable of giving a straight answer if someone else asked the question?

Depends on how the questions were worded, FD. We have seen plenty of ad hominem insults included in the past. We have seen plenty of stupid questions as well. When I see some intelligent, thoughtful questions, which aren't answering a question, instead of answering the question - like you do - I may deign to answer them. Your choice, FD. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 7:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 2:09pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Why? When he answers my questions, I may deign to answer his, Augie. FD likes to answer questions with questions, rather than answers. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Brian are you suggesting you would be capable of giving a straight answer if someone else asked the question?

Depends on how the questions were word, FD. We have seen plenty of ad hominem insults included in the past. We have seen plenty of stupid questions as well. When I see some intelligent, thoughtful questions, which aren't answering a question, instead of answering the question - like you do - I may deign to answer them. Your choice, FD. ::)

You bring up Christianity constantly on the Islam board Brian. Are you saying that despite this, questions about your views on Muhammad vs Jesus our out of bounds?

Is it because a straight answer from you might be interpreted as criticising Islam, which you have no right to do?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

You are lying and/or stupid. You were specifically asked about the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Mohammed. You ignored that and switched to the Old Testament. When pulled up for dishonesty you dig even deeper.

You confirm every charge of lying stupidity that is levelled against you. You are cunning enough to know you are lying and distorting, you are just too thick to do it well and so you get caught out every time and you you keep making it worse every time.

We all get it and see it except you. Tsk, tsk, ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 9:28pm

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

OH, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. I was talking about Christianity - which is far more than just the plain old teachings of Christ, just as Islam is far more than just the plain old teachings of Mohammed. FD decided to try and narrow it down to the teachings of Christ. I attempted to keep to my point. The Old Testament is part of the Christian Holy Writ - The Bible. The Old Testament is where Christians go when they attempt to justify the most heinous of deeds. Tsk, tsk. Time you admitted you follow a religion which is just as, if not more so, violent than Islam, Soren. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:01pm

Brian, the actions of the founders of each religious tradition necessarily inform the practices of its adherents. Sure, Islam is more than Muhammad as Christianity is more than Christ but both religious traditions teach to follow the example of Muhammad and Christ.

Surely, you recognise that Jesus was undoubtedly more pacifistic than Muhammad in his actions.

Muhammad was a spiritual and military leader who established a state on earth. Jesus’ state and overlordship was in heaven and spirit.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:26am

Auggie wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:01pm:

Oh, deari, Augie. Doesn't matter how pacifist the founder is, it is how his message is "reinterpreted" that matters. Christianity was and still remains an extremely violent religion. So is Islam. Mohammed was trying to assert his will against an unwilling populace. Christianity since Christ was doing the same. In the end, both ended up converting peoples en mass by the sword. Should we only be criticising Islam and allow Christianity a free pass on the topic? I don't believe so. What about you, Augie? ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:13am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Why? When he answers my questions, I may deign to answer his, Augie. FD likes to answer questions with questions, rather than answers. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Sure you will bwian.... how many of my questions or responses have you deemed to not answer over the years? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Coward. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:16am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

IDIOT ALERT!!! IDIOT ALERT!!! IDIOT ALERT!!!!
You are so disingenuous bwian... call yourself a Dr of Divinity? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:17am

Grendel wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

oh and bwian....
How many people in those photos cry GOD IS GREAT whilst killing people etc, etc, etc.... oh right that's the ISLAMIC WAY. :D :D :D :D :D ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:17am

Grendel wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:20pm:

Bwian is just one of those USEFUL IDIOTS everyone talks about... he's a DR of Divinity with no MORAL COMPASS, he's happy to lie and be a hypocrite even when he know's he's wrong.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:18am

Grendel wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:20am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:26am:

Auggie wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:01pm:

First, no doubt that Christianity was spread by the sword. The conquistadors in America were an example of this. The question is were they doing so by following the example of Jesus Christ or because they were following the mandate of the Catholic Church?

You cannot draw a straight line from Jesus’ teachings to violence. You can draw a straight line from Muhammad’s teachings to violence.

Second, Christianity was able to move on from its violent tendencies precisely because of its teachings. The abolition of slavery was driven by Christians. It was ultimately Christ’s ‘turn the other cheek’ way of life that changed things.

In Islam, there is no ‘turn the other cheek’. There is no room for interpretation because you can’t interpret God’s word according to islamic theology.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:23am

Second Brian, we need to establish some kind of objectivity as to what each religion teaches. We’re not being intellectually honest if we say that religion means whatever it means to the person because then it’s not religion. For eg I might consider myself a Christian but don’t believe in God, the resurrection of the divinity of Christ bur this belief is fundamentally against the teachings of Christianity.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:20am:

Does it matter? The Church approved of their actions, actively encouraged them, Augie. As far as they were concerned, they were doing what Christ preached to do. We are talking about perceptions, rather than realities. If we examine the Christian Church(es)' history, it is littered with examples of men who believed they were doing Christ's will. ::)

Quote:

You cannot draw a straight line from Jesus’ teachings to violence. You can draw a straight line from Muhammad’s teachings to violence.

Can you? I've been thinking about this a great deal, Augie. I understand there are real difficulties in translating Mohammed's teachings to modern languages because of the lack of accents and the way words are used. I wonder how much of the interpretation of Mohammed's words are based upon misunderstanding of what he intended? Christ has had his words edited and re-edited, many times, which makes it easier to understand what he said (and changed the emphasis). There are whole Testament's missing from The Bible. Heresies were eliminated. How do you know what Christ supposedly said?

Quote:

Second, Christianity was able to move on from its violent tendencies precisely because of its teachings. The abolition of slavery was driven by Christians. It was ultimately Christ’s ‘turn the other cheek’ way of life that changed things.

It has been reinterpreted ITOW, right, Augie? This is one of the major criticism's that Muslims have of Christianity. In part I agree with them but also it make it obvious that Christianity as a movement has made a real effort t change with the times. For all we know, Christ suggested that the "Cheesemakers will inherit the Earth!" ::)

[/quote]
In Islam, there is no ‘turn the other cheek’. There is no room for interpretation because you can’t interpret God’s word according to islamic theology. [/quote]

Isn't too much of that in the history of Christianity, either, Augie. Tsk, tsk. ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:26pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:23am:

Belief is personal, Augie. I'm happy for you to profess those beliefs but some Christians might not. We cannot sit down and objectively determine what a religion teaches when it's believers profess so many differences in what they believe in. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:58pm

Oh come on bwian.... politics and the Church bwian do you honestly think Christ would have approved of the Pope and his followers etc over the ages before reformation etc...

You claim to be a Dr of Divinity but you are the most disingenuous, dishonest TROLL here.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Grendel on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 3:05pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:26pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:23am:

If you don't believe Christ is the Son of God bwian, you aint Christian.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 3:11pm

Reply #228 - Today

Quote:

We are talking about perceptions, rather than realities

Has to be the excuse of the year for islamic terrorism.

Leftards bending over backwards to excuse the reality of today 2018:

Reality today is?:

muslims are the top 24 listed global terrorist organizations

Every single one of them can back up their degeneracy with teachings from the qur'an.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 3:18pm

Grendel wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

You mean to say there are others? ;D

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:04pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

No one is disputing that people have committed acts of terror in the name of Christ, the point is that Christianity was able to self-correct itself because it had the theological basis to do so. There was no anti-slavery movement in the Islamic world. Even though there is the slave verse in the Bible, why do you think the Christian church vehemently argued against slavery, leading to its abolition in the 1830s?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

Come on, Brian. You're smarter than that. We all know what the Bible claims Jesus to have said. Unless you have some old manuscript hidden in the basement we don't know about, all we've got is the New Testament and some other Gospels.

Even if you were to read into the Gnostic Gospels, Christ never preached violence.

And regarding what Muhammad said, nearly all translations of the Quran are exactly the same in meaning and understanding. 4:34 sanctions wife-beating for example.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

Re-interpreting it is one thing, the key point here is that Christianity in of itself provided the impetus for change. Its theology was the key here. Islamic theology doesn't allow for reformation or alteration.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:26pm:

No, there are certain objective truths that religion professes. We cannot talk seriously about religion unless we debate religion as to how adherents see it. It's all good and well for you and me to argue that religion is a 'set of symbols through which we interpret the world' - some post-modernist definition, but for most serious adherents of any religion, the religion is about TRUTH. It makes certain propositions about life and metaphysics. If we adopt the 'anything goes' approach then we can never seriously and realistic debate religion and belief.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

In Islam, there is no ‘turn the other cheek’. There is no room for interpretation because you can’t interpret God’s word according to islamic theology.

Isn't too much of that in the history of Christianity, either, Augie. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes[/quote]

Sure, there isn't too much of that in human history in general. The point is that there is more of it than there is in Islam, and that's the key point.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:04pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

No one is disputing that people have committed acts of terror in the name of Christ, the point is that Christianity was able to self-correct itself because it had the theological basis to do so.

Don't they? Moses does. FD does. Yadda does. Numerous other (at least) nominal Christians in these fora have, Augie. Who am I dispute what they claim? They claim there are no Christian Terrorists yet reality proves otherwise. Thee are numerous examples of such people. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

There was no anti-slavery movement in the Islamic world. Even though there is the slave verse in the Bible, why do you think the Christian church vehemently argued against slavery, leading to its abolition in the 1830s?

There was no anti-Slavery movement amongst Christians either for most of Christianity's history, Augie. Tsk, tsk. Slavery was considered perfectly OK until the Friends decided otherwise.

Quote:

You are falling into the trap that the New Testament is truthful, Augie. What evidence do you have of that? Oh, wait, you have the New Testament. Really? Where has your ability to ascertain a self-fulfilling prophecy? ::)

Quote:

Even if you were to read into the Gnostic Gospels, Christ never preached violence.

The Gnostic Gospels are another source. How about the Gospel of Judas? How about the missing sources we don't know about, mmm? ::)

Quote:

And regarding what Muhammad said, nearly all translations of the Quran are exactly the same in meaning and understanding. 4:34 sanctions wife-beating for example.

Because they all draw upon the same sources, Augie. As I've said, there are many misunderstandings of what Mohammed said when you compare Medieval Arabic to modern Arabic. There are no accents, no puctuation, words have changed in their meaning. How do you know the modern translations are up to scratch, Mmmm?

Quote:

We have seen the interpretation of many things change within the Bible, Augie. Look up the first ecumenical council of the Christian church and see how things changed, drastically. Funny that, hey? ::)

Quote:

We are arguing at cross-purposes here, Augie. I agree, some religious types are quite capable of perceiving the oddest things as "truth", which objectively are false. Look at how the Catholic church treated Galileo simply because he reported what he say through his telescope. Look at how the church treated Copernicus. Look at how the church treats non-Ptolemaic cosmology, Evolution, etc. These scientific facts are treated as falsehoods by many religious types. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

Sure, there isn't too much of that in human history in general. The point is that there is more of it than there is in Islam, and that's the key point.

Islam has varied throughout it's history in how it regards science and medicine, Augie. Just as Christianity has. To many Muslims, if it isn't in the K'ran, it's not valid. If it isn't in The Bible, to many Christians, it does not exist. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:14pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

I don't think they actually believe that, BR. If they did, I would be very surprised.

Of course people have committed terrorist acts in the name of Christ. There is also a question of degree and distinction. Islamist attacks are more numerous in present day than Christian attacks. This is a fact.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

There was no anti-Slavery movement amongst Christians either for most of Christianity's history, Augie. Tsk, tsk. Slavery was considered perfectly OK until the Friends decided otherwise.

The point is that it was Christianity which was able to self-correct and push for the abolition of slavery.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

Do you have any other evidence to prove that Christ was not a peaceful person? If you do, please present your evidence.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

The accents are still limited to the core of the word, BR. For example in Arabic, nearly all words have a 3 letter core. Take D-R-S as an example. D-R-S means to study, and in standard Arabic it's pronounced as Darasa. The accents change the function of word, but the meaning (past tense, etc.). If you add Ma to the front of it, and remove the first 'a' you get madrassa. Another example: K-T-B means to write, pronounced as kataba. What happens when you add ma and change the rest? Maktub, which means library. Very clever, isn't it?

Point is that the accents don't really change the meaning of the words that much. Kill is still kill.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

Last I checked, Christians believe Jesus is the son of God and is divine. That hasn't changed. What has changed is the idea that the Bible fell from the sky in the King James Version. Tsk, tsk.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

Christianity doesn't make the claim that the Bible is the literal Word of God, at least most Christians don't believe that now. They recognise that it written with divine inspiration, which is quite different.

The Quran is deemed to be the exact words God dictated to Muhammad, including every accent and mark. Muhammad even stated that 'he perfected the religion'. The religion is perfect, BR, therefore it is unchangeable. As far as I'm aware, there is no doctrine in Christianity that states that the religion is perfect.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

The scientists and mathematicians in the Islamic world during the Islamic Golden Age were actually inspired by Greek philosophy, particularly neoplatonism. It was Western philosophy which drove the Islamic Golden Age, not the religion itself.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:14pm:

I don't think they actually believe that, BR. If they did, I would be very surprised.

Then be surprised. Read what Moses, et all claim, Augie and get back to us, OK?

Quote:

Of course people have committed terrorist acts in the name of Christ. There is also a question of degree and distinction. Islamist attacks are more numerous in present day than Christian attacks. This is a fact.

No disputing that. However Christian attacks occur far more than you give credit for. In Africa, in India, in Europe, in the USA, Canada, etc. They occur and they are undertaken by Christians, Augie. ::)

Quote:

The point is that it was Christianity which was able to self-correct and push for the abolition of slavery.

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. ::)

Quote:

Do you have any other evidence to prove that Christ was not a peaceful person? If you do, please present your evidence.

How can I when there are severe doubts he existed at all? How can I when the Church controls the only source of information about him? How can I when his PR is so good? Mmmm? ::)

Quote:

However, they change the pronunciation, don't they and when we are talking about a non-literate audience, that chances what the words are heard as. Then you have the non-Arabic speakers. Muslims resist the translation of the Q'ran into more modern Arabic because they fear the words becoming, in their view, distorted.

Quote:

Last I checked, Christians believe Jesus is the son of God and is divine. That hasn't changed. What has changed is the idea that the Bible fell from the sky in the King James Version. Tsk, tsk.

Look up at how the Holy Ghost is treated. Look how Mary is treated. Look how Jesus himself is treated. The interpretations of the Church has markedly changed down the ages, Augie.

Quote:

Most Muslims believe that the Q'ran is divinely inspired, Augie. Many fundamentalist Christians believe that The Bible is divinely inspired, particularly the King James version. I see little difference between the two beliefs.

Quote:

It was still considered to be a part of Islam. Christianity turned it's back on Philosophy and Science for millennium. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

There is no global, transnational organization that currently exists which seeks to establish a totalitarian Christian theocratic state.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

How can I when there are severe doubts he existed at all? How can I when the Church controls the only source of information about him? How can I when his PR is so good? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

So, the answer is no. As far as anyone is aware, there is no historical, religious or otherwise evidence that Jesus Christ, in whatever form he took, was a warmongering bandit.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Look up at how the Holy Ghost is treated. Look how Mary is treated. Look how Jesus himself is treated. The interpretations of the Church has markedly changed down the ages, Augie.

Those propositions have not changed over the centuries Brian.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

First, most Muslims don't believe it's divinely-inspired; they believe it's the literal Word of God. Divine inspiration and the literal Word of God are two different things. When Paul wrote his letters he wasn't dictating the exact words God spoke to him was he? Also, the gospels aren't the dictation of the words of God are they?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

It was still considered to be a part of Islam. Christianity turned it's back on Philosophy and Science for millennium.

The driving force behind that Golden Age was classical Greek philosophy. Sure, we had the dark ages, but we came back, didn't we?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

We are talking about perceptions, rather than realities.

Why are you afraid to talk about the realities Brian? Why do you run in fear every time?

Quote:

Does it matter? The Church approved of their actions, actively encouraged them, Augie.

What did they actually approve Brian? Are you still blaming the church for the flu virus? Would you like to take that back now that you realise how completely idiotic it is?

Quote:

It is only difficult if you are a complete idiot Brian. If you can read and think for yourself, it is quite easy.

Quote:

I wonder how much of the interpretation of Mohammed's words are based upon misunderstanding of what he intended? Christ has had his words edited and re-edited, many times, which makes it easier to understand what he said (and changed the emphasis). There are whole Testament's missing from The Bible. Heresies were eliminated. How do you know what Christ supposedly said?

All we have is the Bible Brian. That is what defines the ideology. This would be true, even if Jesus was entirely fabricated. Again, if you can read, think for yourself, and are not a complete idiot, it is pretty easy to figure out what it says.

Quote:

Isn't too much of that in the history of Christianity, either, Augie. Tsk, tsk.

We cannot sit down and objectively determine what a religion teaches when it's believers profess so many differences in what they believe in.

Yes you can Brian, unless you are a completel idiot, cannot read, and are incapable of thiking for yourself.

Quote:

Don't they? Moses does. FD does. Yadda does.

Again Brian. Read. Think for yourself. If you are not a complete idiot you will figure it out.

Quote:

There was no anti-Slavery movement amongst Christians either for most of Christianity's history, Augie. Tsk, tsk. Slavery was considered perfectly OK until the Friends decided otherwise.

BS. Europe has laregly lacked slavery from pretty close to the time it Christianised. There was a Christian-based anti-slavery movement regarding the new world from the moment Europeans entered the new world in large numbers. Again Brian, read, think for yourself. If you are not a complete idiot it will become obvious. You are doing the same thing with history you accuse religious people of doing with their religions. At some point, the truth has to matter, no matter how desperate you are to apologise for Islam's evil.

Quote:

You are falling into the trap that the New Testament is truthful, Augie.

Then be surprised. Read what Moses, et all claim, Augie and get back to us, OK?

No, don't be surprised. Brian is lying. He does not have a clue. It's just an endless stream of BS, and the moment you question him on it, it turns into a completely different stream of utter BS.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Lord Herbert on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:05pm

;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Lord Herbert on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:05pm

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

There is no global, transnational organization that currently exists which seeks to establish a totalitarian Christian theocratic state.

There is. It's called the Catholic Church, Augie. Look at it's history. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

How can I when there are severe doubts he existed at all? How can I when the Church controls the only source of information about him? How can I when his PR is so good? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

So, the answer is no. As far as anyone is aware, there is no historical, religious or otherwise evidence that Jesus Christ, in whatever form he took, was a warmongering bandit.

Lack of evidence simply suggests that the Church has been very careful in how Christ is interpreted. We do know that the Church deliberately distorted what Christ supposedly said to allow it to encourage Christians to go forth and conquer the world. ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Look up at how the Holy Ghost is treated. Look how Mary is treated. Look how Jesus himself is treated. The interpretations of the Church has markedly changed down the ages, Augie.

Those propositions have not changed over the centuries Brian.

Yes they have. Look at the Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 CE.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

I fail to see the difference, Augie. Both come from God (supposedly). ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

It was still considered to be a part of Islam. Christianity turned it's back on Philosophy and Science for millennium.

The driving force behind that Golden Age was classical Greek philosophy. Sure, we had the dark ages, but we came back, didn't we?

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. ::)

Brian, you just finished saying that Christianity was to blame for bringing the flu to the Americas. But you also say Christians, not Christianity, abolished slavery. Do you always slip in both directions, or is this a special occasion?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

It was still considered to be a part of Islam. Christianity turned it's back on Philosophy and Science for millennium.

The driving force behind that Golden Age was classical Greek philosophy. Sure, we had the dark ages, but we came back, didn't we?

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. ::)

No Brian. Muslims are still in that dark age. Christian Europe recovered from it, despite the best efforts of Muslims to cut them off from the rest of western civilisation and the rest of the world. Oh, and they depopulated the coast of Italy and much of the rest of Europe by raiding it for sex slaves.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:47pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

We are talking about perceptions, rather than realities.

Why are you afraid to talk about the realities Brian? Why do you run in fear every time?

Questions, FD? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

[quote]Does it matter? The Church approved of their actions, actively encouraged them, Augie.

What did they actually approve Brian? Are you still blaming the church for the flu virus? Would you like to take that back now that you realise how completely idiotic it is?[/quote]

Questions, FD? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

[quote]Can you? I've been thinking about this a great deal, Augie. I understand there are real difficulties in translating Mohammed's teachings to modern languages because of the lack of accents and the way words are used.

It is only difficult if you are a complete idiot Brian. If you can read and think for yourself, it is quite easy.[/quote]

Ah, a statement for a change. An insulting one though. Tsk, tsk. We have seen how you interpret his words, FD. ::)

Quote:

[quote]I wonder how much of the interpretation of Mohammed's words are based upon misunderstanding of what he intended? Christ has had his words edited and re-edited, many times, which makes it easier to understand what he said (and changed the emphasis). There are whole Testament's missing from The Bible. Heresies were eliminated. How do you know what Christ supposedly said?

[quote]Isn't too much of that in the history of Christianity, either, Augie. Tsk, tsk.

Again, you just make stuff up Brian. Why do you think Europe's history played out in such a vastly different manner to that of the middle east? Do you know how much forgiveness and turning the other cheek there actually was? How is it you can so conveniently claim to know the unknowable while also insisting that you find the bleeding obvious to be incomprehensible?[/quote]

Forgotten the Thirty Years War, FD? Over thirty million dead and all because some bloke nailed some bits of paper to a church door. Tsk, tsk. Not much forgiveness there... ::)

Quote:

[quote]We cannot sit down and objectively determine what a religion teaches when it's believers profess so many differences in what they believe in.

Yes you can Brian, unless you are a completel idiot, cannot read, and are incapable of thiking for yourself.[/quote]

So, how do you tell what a Christian believes in or a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Hindu or a Jew, FD? You can claim you know what they should believe in but you can't prove they actually believe all that guff, now can you? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

[quote]Don't they? Moses does. FD does. Yadda does.

Again Brian. Read. Think for yourself. If you are not a complete idiot you will figure it out.[/quote]

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Ad hominem arguments, FD? Really? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

[quote]There was no anti-Slavery movement amongst Christians either for most of Christianity's history, Augie. Tsk, tsk. Slavery was considered perfectly OK until the Friends decided otherwise.

[quote]You are falling into the trap that the New Testament is truthful, Augie.

No Brian. Merely that it says what it says, and that is what it teaches. Again, read, think for yourself, and if you are not a complete idiot it will be obvious. It is right there in black and white in the words of Augie that you quoted. The mind boggles at how completely you can misunderstand such a simple question[/quote]

You are condemning me for questioning what The Bible claims, FD. I am thinking for myself. Unlike you, whom appears to accept at face value a heavily edited work created by the Church for it's own purposes. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

[quote]Then be surprised. Read what Moses, et all claim, Augie and get back to us, OK?

No, don't be surprised. Brian is lying. He does not have a clue. It's just an endless stream of BS, and the moment you question him on it, it turns into a completely different stream of utter BS.[/quote]

If I have lied, Augie will discover that, FD. I have no fear because I know I have not lied. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by freediver on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:49pm

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:54pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. ::)

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I have not slipped. You have, FD. Quote back to me where I made that claim, if you can. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Quote:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk, FD. I suggest you do some more research. You might be surprised where most of the Renassiance's learning came from. Look up the Library of Cordoba... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

There is. It's called the Catholic Church, Augie. Look at it's history. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian, as much as I don't like the Catholic Church for various reasons, they do not want a theocratic totalitarian state. The Catholic Church lost that battle a long time ago.

Your comment was completely misguided.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. Roll Eyes

So when they used Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus as inspiration, were they doing so as Christians, or as secular Englishmen?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

The church can't distort what Christ said or did because it's in the Bible. The church didn't develop the idea of the Virgin Mary; they simply read the Bible and drew that conclusion.

Am I missing something here?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

I fail to see the difference, Augie. Both come from God (supposedly). Roll Eyes

There's a clear distinction in that one allows for flexibility in interpretation whilst the other doesn't. Can you guess which one is which?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. Roll Eyes

Not at all.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:59pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

I don't understand your meaning.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 6:20pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

There is. It's called the Catholic Church, Augie. Look at it's history. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Has it? The Catholic Church has a long, long, long, memory. It's library contains works from the early history of writing. It has changed the names of it's departments. The Inquisition still exists, you realise? The Church would leap at the chance to create a theocracy with it in charge. Don't dismiss it quite so readily, is what I'd recommend. ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. Roll Eyes

So when they used Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus as inspiration, were they doing so as Christians, or as secular Englishmen?

A bit of both. This dividing line between secularism and religiousity is a modern one, Augie. ::)

[quote]quote author=Brian_Ross link=1516565029/242#242 date=1518694557]Lack of evidence simply suggests that the Church has been very careful in how Christ is interpreted. We do know that the Church deliberately distorted what Christ supposedly said to allow it to encourage Christians to go forth and conquer the world. Roll Eyes[/quote]

The church can't distort what Christ said or did because it's in the Bible. The church didn't develop the idea of the Virgin Mary; they simply read the Bible and drew that conclusion.

Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Yes. Go and read up on the early church and it's doctrinal development of the "accepted beliefs" about the various characters in The Bible. They changed quite markedly. ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

I fail to see the difference, Augie. Both come from God (supposedly). Roll Eyes

There's a clear distinction in that one allows for flexibility in interpretation whilst the other doesn't. Can you guess which one is which?

Both get their inspiration from the Sky Fairy, right? Both are interpreted by men, right? So, effectively, both are just as subject to what those believe and want their fellow men to believe... ::)

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. Roll Eyes

Not at all.

[/quote]

The Reconquista opened up Moorish libraries to Northern European eyes for the first time, Augie. Without that, the Renaissance would never have happened. ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 6:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

You are lying and you know it. We know it. Old testament. New testament. Notice any difference? (probably not, a bit like Mohammed).

The Law (Submission, if you like) was replaced by Love as the principle of the covenant. Mohammed, being a bit semi-literate like you, didn't get any of that. Went to the Jews to sell them his new prophetship of the Law. They laughed him out of court and he never got over it. He completely misunderstood the Jews and the Christians. "I am the last word and anyone who says otherwise is to be subjugated and labelled an Islamophobe" -
that's what Mo sold to the illiterate Arab hordes. Sounds like you, Aussie and the rest of the mentally handicapped petty little blighters.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:25pm

Frank wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 6:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

You are lying and you know it. We know it. Old testament. New testament. Notice any difference? (probably not, a bit like Mohammed).

If I am lying, Soren, prove I am lying. Demonstrate that I am "knowingly telling an untruth". If you can. Tsk, tsk. No evidence, no proof. How typical of you. How bloody typical. You belong in the little Kiddie's Playground, Soren. Off you trot. ::)

Quote:

The Law (Submission, if you like) was replaced by Love as the principle of the covenant. Mohammed, being a bit semi-literate like you, didn't get any of that. Went to the Jews to sell them his new prophetship of the Law. They laughed him out of court and he never got over it. He completely misunderstood the Jews and the Christians. "I am the last word and anyone who says otherwise is to be subjugated and labelled an Islamophobe" -
that's what Mo sold to the illiterate Arab hordes. Sounds like you, Aussie and the rest of the mentally handicapped petty little blighters.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. Such a silly little child. Run along. I hear your Muma calling you... ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:05pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

I don't understand your meaning.

No speaka da English, eh?

FD knows that one too.

Good show.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:06pm

You're learning, Augie.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 1:14pm

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign to excuse global islamic atrocities?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:00pm

moses wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 1:14pm:

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign to excuse global islamic atrocities?

Do you mean lying about passages from the Koran and pretending the Old Testament is much nicer?

Another good question, Moses. Do you want to have a stab?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 12:07pm

Hatred for the sake of Allah and love for the sake of Allah is called Al Walaa wa al Baraa, a fundamental principle of Islamic ethics and Sharia. A Muslim is to hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves. Allah hates the Kafir, therefore, a Muslim is to act accordingly.

Amount of Text Devoted to the Kafir

The Koran says that the Kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse. The word is usually translated as “unbeliever” but this translation is wrong. The word “unbeliever” is logically and emotionally neutral, whereas, Kafir is the most abusive, prejudiced and hateful word in any language.

Islam devotes a great amount of energy to the Kafir. The majority (64%) of the Koran is devoted to the Kafir, and nearly all of the Sira (81%) deals with Mohammed’s struggle with them. The Hadith (Traditions) devotes 32% of the text to Kafirs1. Overall, the Trilogy devotes 60% of its content to the Kafir.

Hadith 37%
Sira 81%
Koran 64%
Total 60%

But this has got nuffin to do wiv islam.

Currently, 25 organisations are listed as terrorist organisations under the Criminal Code. They are:

•Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 1 November 2008, 29 October 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Murabitun
Listed 5 November 2014, re-listed 2 November 2017

•Al-Qa'ida (AQ)
Listed 21 October 2002, re-listed 1 September 2004, 26 August 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
Listed 26 November 2010, re-listed 26 November 2013 and 26 November 2016.

•Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)
Listed 28 November 2016

•Al-Qa’ida in the Lands of the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Shabaab
Listed 22 August 2009, re-listed 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Ansar al-Islam
Formerly known as Ansar al-Sunna—Listed 27 March 2003, re-listed 27 March 2005, 24 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 9 March 2012 and 3 March 2015

•Boko Haram
Listed 26 June 2014 and re-listed 27 June 2017.

•Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
Listed 9 November 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Hizballah's External Security Organisation (ESO)
Listed 5 June 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 25 May 2007, 16 May 2009, 12 May 2012 and 2 May 2015

•Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012 and 3 March 2015

•Islamic State
Formerly listed as Al-Qa’ida in Iraq—2 March 2005, re-listed 17 Feb 2007, 1 Nov 2008, 29 Oct 2010, 12 July 2013. Formerly listed as Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant on 14 Dec 2013. Listed 11 July 2014 as Islamic State and re-listed 1 July 2017.

•Islamic State East Asia
Listed 8 September 2017

•Islamic State in Libya (IS-Libya)
Listed 28 November 2016

•Islamic State Khorasan Province
2 November 2017

•Islamic State Sinai Province (IS-Sinai)
Listed 28 November 2016.

•Jabhat al-Nusra
Listed 29 June 2013, re-listed 28 June 2016 and amended on 4 November 2016 to include alias Jabhat Fatah al-Sham.

•Jaish-e-Mohammed
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012 and 3 March 2015

•Jamiat ul-Ansar (JuA)
Formerly known as Harakat Ul-Mujahideen—Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 1 November 2008, 29 October 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Jemaah Islamiyah (JI)
Listed 27 October 2002, re-listed 1 September 2004, 26 August 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)
Listed 17 December 2005, re-listed 28 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Lashkar-e Jhangvi
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012 and 3 March 2015

•Lashkar-e-Tayyiba
Listed 9 November 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Listed 3 May 2004, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

At the risk of repeating myself:------ Buuuut they got nuffin to do wiv islam

------islams a religion of peace?

Oh the lies of the groveling leftie.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:53pm

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Cultural appropriation! I think we should alert Pauline! She'll stop this Dane from stealing our language! ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:15pm

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Yes, boys, save your appetite for Mormor's rollmops.

To die for.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:53pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Cultural appropriation! I think we should alert Pauline! She'll stop this Dane from stealing our language! ::) ::)

He's just trying to assimilate, Brian. Please give him a go.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:26pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:53pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Cultural appropriation! I think we should alert Pauline! She'll stop this Dane from stealing our language! ::) ::)

He's just trying to assimilate, Brian. Please give him a go.

Why? ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 5:44pm

Wednesday, 21 February 2018
Muslims burn piles of Pampers nappies and call for a ban because cartoon cat's whiskers printed on them 'look like the Arabic spelling of Meowhamed'

Muslim protests in India are calling for a boycott of Pampers products after claiming to have seen the word 'Mohammed' in the face of a cartoon cat which appears on its nappies. The lines illustrating the whiskers, nose, mouth and left eye of the smiley feline allegedly bear a close resemblance to the Prophet's name when written in Arabic or Urdu.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm?blog_id=67144

There is simply no limit to Islamic offence taking idiocy. They are sick with victimhood and outrage against the world. It's mental.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by issuevoter on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 5:53pm

Meanwhile, in preparing to air their Islamic promotion, SBS reports the murder of 5 women at a church in Dagestan Russia, but fails to report the Muzlim identity of the attacker who shouted the usual alli akbar, which of course gives Muzlims the right to murder for allah. Its the Islamic way, and SBS favours these people.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 9:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:53pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Cultural appropriation! I think we should alert Pauline! She'll stop this Dane from stealing our language! ::) ::)

He's just trying to assimilate, Brian. Please give him a go.

Why? ::)

Because he went to all the trouble of learning our language and buying a plane ticket to come here.

Rich tapestry, innit.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 9:35pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 9:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:53pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Cultural appropriation! I think we should alert Pauline! She'll stop this Dane from stealing our language! ::) ::)

He's just trying to assimilate, Brian. Please give him a go.

Why? ::)

Because he went to all the trouble of learning our language and buying a plane ticket to come here.

Rich tapestry, innit.

Is it? He's proved that he is unassimilable! He should be deported back to Copenhagen! Back to the land of Smorgasbord and Herring! ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 10:14pm

Oh, I know. But he is cute, don't you think? If we didn't have immigrants like the old boy, we'd have to make them up.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by AugCaesarustus on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 10:23am

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 9:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 5:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:53pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

Someone known as a "jellyfish"? ::)

Good question. Who did win 2007's biggest jellyfish award, anyway?

Mmm, let me guess... ::)

The results were never released, right?

Typical.

Stop sucking each other's jelly fishes, you spineless mongs.

Fair dinkum.

Cultural appropriation! I think we should alert Pauline! She'll stop this Dane from stealing our language! ::) ::)

He's just trying to assimilate, Brian. Please give him a go.

Why? ::)

Because he went to all the trouble of learning our language and buying a plane ticket to come here.

Rich tapestry, innit.

Do you uphold the use of telling porkies in your campaign against the Muselman?

Superior culture, innit?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:43am

The old boy doesn't like to answer that one either, Augie.

Google: taqiyya.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:11pm

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm

SWEDISH fast-fashion giant H & M has apologised and pulled a range of children’s socks from its shelves in response to complaints made by members of the Muslim community.

The offending socks bore an image of a Lego figurine holding a jackhammer — but Muslim shoppers claimed when turned upside down, the image appeared to resemble the word “Allah” in Arabic, prompting outrage.

According to The Independent, a company spokesperson said the resemblance was “entirely coincidental” and that no offence or hidden meaning was intended by the desigln.

When turned upside down - these bastards are seeking ways to claim offence. The Muslim community should bugger off.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:25pm

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:11pm:

That's true. It's almost identical.

Ban them.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

What a great way to run a business - tell your customers to "bugger off". What ever happened to, "the customer is always right", Soren? Out the window in your efforts to offend only a section of the customers, hey? How about putting inverted crucifixs on to some products to offend Christians? How about putting some dead cows onto products to offend the Hindus? Yeah, that'll really drum up business, now won't it? Gee, I think H&M are glad you're not in charge of marketing and design. ::) ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Yadda on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 2:13pm

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:11pm:

Many individuals have noticed the same thing about ISLAM, in every place, where the followers of ISLAM are being 'compelled' to 'interface' with a pluralist environment.

ISLAM - The Religion of Perpetual Outrage

"Just a few months ago in Kashmir, faithful Muslims rioted over what they thought was a mosque depicted on underwear sold by street vendors."
https://www.petahtikvah.com/Articles/ReligionofPerpetualOutrage.htm

"That is why it is quite appropriate to speak of the “Religion of Perpetual Outrage.” No matter what you say, or how you say it, a reason for offense can be found."
https://www.aomin.org/aoblog/2007/06/21/the-religion-of-perpetual-outrage/

"So, how do you insult Islam?
The fact that you exist
and are not muslim,
you breathe,
speak truth,
share truth about Muhammed,
draw a cartoon that makes him look foolish. "
http://janmorganmedia.com/2012/09/islam-the-religion-of-perpetual-outrage/

"When we live within your nation, you infidels must accommodate our feelings of how the world must appear to us, and how the world must appear to our perceptions.
Otherwise we will kill you, for offending us."
- We are the innocent, and virtuous people, of Allah,    it is your duty to accommodate us!

n.b.
When non-moslems go to visit, or to live in, a moslem majority nation, non-moslems must obey [and respect !!!] the laws and the customs and the worldview which is predominant within that moslem majority nation.

And LIKEWISE when moslems come to live in a non-moslem majority nation, non-moslems must respect the laws and the customs and the worldview of the moslem.
.......because it would be culturally 'discriminatory' against the moslem and his religion, not to do so.

You know that it is true!       :P

.

IMAGE...

THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST, 2006, IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"

.

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.

Here we see the moslem community in Australia, demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

Moslems,       religious bigots,       'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

Moslems demanding their 'human rights', to exercise the 'freedom of religion' of the moslem.

THE RIGHT OF THE MOSLEM [which is set out within ISLAMIC law!], to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

QUESTION;
How many of those persons who took part in that moslem street protest in Sydney, Australia,       TO INCITE RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY, AND RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE, AND MURDER,       were ever identified, charged and brought before a court of law ? !!

.

IMAGE...

"Behead those who insult ISLAM"

Islamic street protest - IN AUSTRALIA - on the streets of Sydney from Hyde Park to George Streets, September 15, 2012.

.

ARGUMENT;
There is an identifiable group of people, who do, facilitate, enable, encourage and commit acts of terror,
as an endorsed cultural modality.

They are called moslems.

They are the followers, of ISLAM.

WAKE UP PEOPLE !

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

It's concocted outrage and offence, like most of your, Bwian. In Sweden they now have to worry about what BS Muslims will discover when they turn items upside down????

Look at that sock, look at that nappy package - you must be a complete frikken moron to take any of these Muslims complaints seriously. Yet here you are, predictably, taking them seriously.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by moses on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 1:40pm

upside down nappies and socks are bad

suicide bombers what make allah glad

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 4:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

Freud on Man's Soul?

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 4:46pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 4:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

Freud on Man's Soul?

I remember his daughter's treatise on pooh. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

I missed the 'bend over to idiotic muslim claims because that's the future' lecture, Bwian. You, on the other hand, have attended nothing else.
You ridiculous fool.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Frank on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 4:46pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 4:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

Freud on Man's Soul?

I remember his daughter's treatise on pooh. Tsk, tsk. ::)

Because it was about you.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Karnal on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 9:55pm

Frank wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

I missed the 'bend over to idiotic muslim claims because that's the future' lecture, Bwian. You, on the other hand, have attended nothing else.
You ridiculous fool.

Quite offended.

Title: Re: The Islamic Way
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 10:35pm

Frank wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:16pm:

Obviously so do H&M, Soren. Perhaps they like to sell stuff to people? Obviously you failed the marketing section of your course at the University of Baloney, right? ::)

I missed the 'bend over to idiotic muslim claims because that's the future' lecture, Bwian. You, on the other hand, have attended nothing else.
You ridiculous fool.

My store is still standing. I am still selling stuff to customers who I don't go out of my way to offend. Oh, dearie, dearie, me, poor, poor, Soren. Pissed off all your customers? Me, a socialist more profitable than a capitalist, like you. Tsk, tsk. ::) ::)