Quote:

Justice Department sides with court ruling ObamaCare invalid.. The Department of Justice (DOJ) on Monday announced that it is siding with a district court ruling that found the Affordable Care Act unconstitutional. The move is an escalation of the Trump administration's legal battle against the health care law. The DOJ previously argued in court that the law's pre-existing condition protections should be struck down. Now, the administration argues the entire law should be invalidated. U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor ruled in December that the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate is unconstitutional and that the rest of law is therefore invalid. The DOJ said Monday that it agrees the decision should stand as the case works its way through the appeals process in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit. "The Department of Justice has determined that the district court’s judgment should be affirmed," the department said in a short letter to the appeals court.

---

Gee! That's great news. Now, Dr. Blankeshipp will be able to get that second summer place out in the Hamptons.

I wonder if many GOP politicians secretly want universal healthcare in the USA because the demise of Obamacare will only bring it closer.

MMmmm

More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery!

Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 8:50am:

MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay.

Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies.

When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes!

A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue.

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 11:00pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue.

And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care.

Violet Crumble wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 8:40am:

I wonder if many GOP politicians secretly want universal healthcare in the USA because the demise of Obamacare will only bring it closer.

No, dear, they want it because it's cheaper than the state paying top dollar for hospitals, Medicare and beefed-up medication prices.

Even Mr Trump wondered why they don't just implement a public health insurance scheme - after 3 years of campaigning against one.

Still, he also campaigned for Obama to release his uni grades. While he did that, of course, he had his fixer Cohen negotiating with Mr Trump's school and university to get Mr Trump's own grades, in his words, "buried".

DRAIN THE SWAMP, no?

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue. And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care.

Only if government doesn't replace Insurance companies by paying ruinous charges and passing it on to the public in higher taxes.

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 11:10pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:04pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue. And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care. Only if government doesn't replace Insurance companies by paying ruinous charges and passing it on to the public in higher taxes.

I agree, the US situation, much like their problem with guns, is uniquely problematic because of their leaders love of the "free market" (aka, lining their own pockets at the cost of the people).

Without regulating the industry first to rid it of the exorbitant price gouging, it would be an expensive solution to have publicly funded healthcare as it is.

Just like all industries with a powerful lobby, it's the people that always suffer.

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 11:10pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:04pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue. And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care. Only if government doesn't replace Insurance companies by paying ruinous charges and passing it on to the public in higher taxes.

True, but you already have that. If the US had a national health system - like most developed countries - it would be far cheaper.

It's a mystery to the rest of us why you don't do just that.

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 11:00pm:

Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes!

The USA already spends more on healthcare than the rest of the world with worse outcomes.

The Democrats must be loving this. An early Xmas present from Mr. Trump.

Mechanic,

Can you explain how Obamacare is unconstitutional? Which section of the Constitution does the law violate?

Please quote the Section and clause and offer your interpretation of it.

I look forward to your explanation.

Auggie wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 9:33am:

Mechanic, Can you explain how Obamacare is unconstitutional? Which section of the Constitution does the law violate? Please quote the Section and clause and offer your interpretation of it. I look forward to your explanation.

Good luck with that.  When things get too hard he just abandons threads.

..


Why a Judge Ruled Obamacare Unconstitutional....



Source:      The Heritage Foundation      
Quote:

...........In 2012, in NFIB v. Sebelius, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the individual mandate by the narrowest of margins when Chief Justice John Roberts, providing the deciding vote, devised a novel theory construing the penalty associated with violating the individual mandate as a tax that Congress has the power to levy under the Constitution. Texas argues that once the penalty is reduced to $0, it can no longer be considered a legitimate tax, and that therefore the individual mandate would no longer have a constitutional leg to stand on. Moreover, Texas argues, in upholding the individual mandate, the Supreme Court appeared to rely on the argument that Congress considered the individual mandate to be a central—indeed, indispensable—component of Obamacare that is not “severable” from the rest of its provisions, and that without it, the rest of the law should be invalidated. A group of 17 states led by California are defending the law, arguing that even a tax of $0 is still a tax, and that it was never Congress’ intent to get rid of the rest of Obamacare when it repealed the financial penalty associated with the individual mandates as part of last year’s tax bill. In granting the plaintiffs’ motion, O’Connor stated, showing his agreement with Texas’ argument:     [quote]The [Tax Cuts and Jobs Act] eliminated that [individual mandate] tax. The Supreme Court’s reasoning in NFIB—buttressed by other binding precedent and plain text—thus compels the conclusion that the individual mandate may no longer be upheld under the tax power. And because the individual mandate continues to mandate the purchase of health insurance, it remains unsustainable under the Interstate Commerce Clause—as the Supreme Court already held.     Finally, Congress stated many times unequivocally—through enacted text signed by the president—that the individual mandate is “essential” to the ACA. And this essentiality, the [Affordable Care Act’s] text makes clear, means the mandate must work ‘together with the other provisions’ for the Act to function as intended. All nine justices to review the [Affordable Care Act] acknowledged this text and Congress’s manifest intent to establish the individual mandate as the [Affordable Care Act’s] ‘essential’ provision. The current and previous administrations have recognized that, too. Because rewriting the ACA without its ‘essential’ feature is beyond the power of an Article III court, the Court thus adheres to Congress’s textually expressed intent and binding Supreme Court precedent to find the individual mandate is inseverable from the [Affordable Care Act’s] remaining provisions.........

(Follow this link to see the entire article)


[/quote]

For a different slant (no, not the Chinese version ya racists).....

Also See:   Congress's Worst Nightmare: Obamacare May Be Unconstitutional



..

The US is virtually a third world dump that does all it can to screw its own people.

It's screwing it's own people that's for sure ...



Quote:

In the US, the very same blood test can cost $19 at one clinic and $522 at another clinic just blocks away -- and nobody knows the difference until they get a bill weeks later. Journalist Jeanne Pinder says it doesn't have to be this way. She's built a platform that crowdsources the true costs of medical procedures and makes the data public, revealing the secrets of health care pricing. Learn how knowing what stuff costs in advance could make us healthier, save us money -- and help fix a broken system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjeZ8r7yWOk


The website.


Quote:

Finding out what health care costs can seem impossible. We’re here to help. Rising health care costs are one of the biggest problems we face as a nation. We’re journalists working to bring transparency to the system by telling people what stuff costs. Find prices, research issues, and share your prices on our site.

https://clearhealthcosts.com/

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 11:14pm:

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:10pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:04pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue. And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care. Only if government doesn't replace Insurance companies by paying ruinous charges and passing it on to the public in higher taxes. I agree, the US situation, much like their problem with guns, is uniquely problematic because of their leaders love of the "free market" (aka, lining their own pockets at the cost of the people). Without regulating the industry first to rid it of the exorbitant price gouging, it would be an expensive solution to have publicly funded healthcare as it is. Just like all industries with a powerful lobby, it's the people that always suffer.

Sorry but you don't actually understand the problem! Just an hour after my last post here we received a call from my brother to take our Father to the Emergency Room. His Hernia was allowing his small intestine to bulge through a weakness in the abdominal wall. We spent the next six hours at the Hospital and they were able to avoid surgery by massaging it back in place. At this point surgery is an elective choice rather than a necessity and that affects what is covered by Insurance. If the condition recurs it becomes necessary and Insurance will pay more of the cost. I have no problem with the Medical Personnel receiving just compensation for their knowledge and skills and even a modest fee for using a small part of the building they work in. Charging thousands for the time we spent there is the problem. Socializing it would destroy incentives, not make it better! 

I once had the opportunity to participate in a medical insurance pool. It charged much less than a regular insurance premium but covered expenses much better. It had a small overhead and almost every dollar collected was used to pay claims. It worked so well we actually had free coverage for months until a surplus was brought down. The difference was that no multistory building existed with the name of an Insurance Company and no non-medical Staff receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries. No gopher farm of clerical employees whose job it is to approve or deny claim payments. Medical care is a business and business is good because claims are payed by those with deep pockets with an Army of  paper pushers.   

If you want the best medical care in the world, come to the USA. If you have Cancer your best chance for a cure or at least long term survival anywhere in the world is M.D. Anderson in Houston Texas. Many of the Worlds leaders and Elites come here because it is their best chance!

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 11:12pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:14pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:10pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:04pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue. And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care. Only if government doesn't replace Insurance companies by paying ruinous charges and passing it on to the public in higher taxes. I agree, the US situation, much like their problem with guns, is uniquely problematic because of their leaders love of the "free market" (aka, lining their own pockets at the cost of the people). Without regulating the industry first to rid it of the exorbitant price gouging, it would be an expensive solution to have publicly funded healthcare as it is. Just like all industries with a powerful lobby, it's the people that always suffer. Sorry but you don't actually understand the problem! Just an hour after my last post here we received a call from my brother to take our Father to the Emergency Room. His Hernia was allowing his small intestine to bulge through a weakness in the abdominal wall. We spent the next six hours at the Hospital and they were able to avoid surgery by massaging it back in place. At this point surgery is an elective choice rather than a necessity and that affects what is covered by Insurance. If the condition recurs it becomes necessary and Insurance will pay more of the cost. I have no problem with the Medical Personnel receiving just compensation for their knowledge and skills and even a modest fee for using a small part of the building they work in. Charging thousands for the time we spent there is the problem. Socializing it would destroy incentives, not make it better!  I once had the opportunity to participate in a medical insurance pool. It charged much less than a regular insurance premium but covered expenses much better. It had a small overhead and almost every dollar collected was used to pay claims. It worked so well we actually had free coverage for months until a surplus was brought down. The difference was that no multistory building existed with the name of an Insurance Company and no non-medical Staff receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries. No gopher farm of clerical employees whose job it is to approve or deny claim payments. Medical care is a business and business is good because claims are payed by those with deep pockets with an Army of  paper pushers.    If you want the best medical care in the world, come to the USA. If you have Cancer your best chance for a cure or at least long term survival anywhere in the world is M.D. Anderson in Houston Texas. Many of the Worlds leaders and Elites come here because it is their best chance!

I've heard US health treatment can be great great, but I'm curious. Why would state coverage make it worse?

Panther wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 10:50am:

.. Why a Judge Ruled Obamacare Unconstitutional.... Source:      The Heritage Foundation       Quote: ...........In 2012, in NFIB v. Sebelius, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the individual mandate by the narrowest of margins when Chief Justice John Roberts, providing the deciding vote, devised a novel theory construing the penalty associated with violating the individual mandate as a tax that Congress has the power to levy under the Constitution. Texas argues that once the penalty is reduced to $0, it can no longer be considered a legitimate tax, and that therefore the individual mandate would no longer have a constitutional leg to stand on. Moreover, Texas argues, in upholding the individual mandate, the Supreme Court appeared to rely on the argument that Congress considered the individual mandate to be a central—indeed, indispensable—component of Obamacare that is not “severable” from the rest of its provisions, and that without it, the rest of the law should be invalidated. A group of 17 states led by California are defending the law, arguing that even a tax of $0 is still a tax, and that it was never Congress’ intent to get rid of the rest of Obamacare when it repealed the financial penalty associated with the individual mandates as part of last year’s tax bill. In granting the plaintiffs’ motion, O’Connor stated, showing his agreement with Texas’ argument:     [quote]The [Tax Cuts and Jobs Act] eliminated that [individual mandate] tax. The Supreme Court’s reasoning in NFIB—buttressed by other binding precedent and plain text—thus compels the conclusion that the individual mandate may no longer be upheld under the tax power. And because the individual mandate continues to mandate the purchase of health insurance, it remains unsustainable under the Interstate Commerce Clause—as the Supreme Court already held.     Finally, Congress stated many times unequivocally—through enacted text signed by the president—that the individual mandate is “essential” to the ACA. And this essentiality, the [Affordable Care Act’s] text makes clear, means the mandate must work ‘together with the other provisions’ for the Act to function as intended. All nine justices to review the [Affordable Care Act] acknowledged this text and Congress’s manifest intent to establish the individual mandate as the [Affordable Care Act’s] ‘essential’ provision. The current and previous administrations have recognized that, too. Because rewriting the ACA without its ‘essential’ feature is beyond the power of an Article III court, the Court thus adheres to Congress’s textually expressed intent and binding Supreme Court precedent to find the individual mandate is inseverable from the [Affordable Care Act’s] remaining provisions......... (Follow this link to see the entire article)

For a different slant (no, not the Chinese version ya racists).....

Also See:   Congress's Worst Nightmare: Obamacare May Be Unconstitutional



..[/quote]

I'd hardly call this article an adequate explanation of the constitutionality of the law. It doesn't even mention the Constitution at all.

Again, Pather, if you love your beloved Constitution, quote the Section and Clause of the Constitution which you believe the Act violates and offer your explanation as to why you believe it so.

Mortdooley wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 11:12pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:14pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:10pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:04pm: Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm: Redmond Neck wrote on Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:50am: MMmmm More families having to declare bankruptcy or sell their houses to pay for major surgery! Great country the old USA !  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I agree with your point but a persons home is protected from seizure for debt in this country no matter how poor and indebted one may be. As long as they keep up mortgage payments they will continue to have their home. The rest of their lives can be ruined but a modest attempt to pay medical bills will keep the bastards at bay. Obamacare is really about forcing the general population to support a massive insurance industry not the actual people who give Medical care. I pay six or seven thousand dollars a year for medical coverage that has an ever higher deductible even though I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years. The deductible collected for treatment is just about all a clinic gets to keep after giving most of the rest to Insurance companies. When your customers have deep pockets you charge what the market will bear! Government furnished health insurance isn't the answer because we all pay for that with higher taxes! A friend felt ill last year and went to a local hospital. It was a Friday and Doctors didn't examine him until the following Monday. He was declared fit to return home that Monday and released. Insurance doesn't want to pay for the weekend because his Doctor didn't see him. The Hospital wants over $64,000 for a three night stay with three meals and a bed, it is called observation. Where can you find a Hotel that charges $21,000 per night with unlimited room service and a private nurse? The answer isn't government supported health care, it is taking away power from the Insurance Industry to drive up costs for their benefit and then ride to the rescue. And the best way to go that, that has been shown to work all over the world, is to do away with insurance companies and the primary financer of health care. Only if government doesn't replace Insurance companies by paying ruinous charges and passing it on to the public in higher taxes. I agree, the US situation, much like their problem with guns, is uniquely problematic because of their leaders love of the "free market" (aka, lining their own pockets at the cost of the people). Without regulating the industry first to rid it of the exorbitant price gouging, it would be an expensive solution to have publicly funded healthcare as it is. Just like all industries with a powerful lobby, it's the people that always suffer. Sorry but you don't actually understand the problem! Just an hour after my last post here we received a call from my brother to take our Father to the Emergency Room. His Hernia was allowing his small intestine to bulge through a weakness in the abdominal wall. We spent the next six hours at the Hospital and they were able to avoid surgery by massaging it back in place. At this point surgery is an elective choice rather than a necessity and that affects what is covered by Insurance. If the condition recurs it becomes necessary and Insurance will pay more of the cost. I have no problem with the Medical Personnel receiving just compensation for their knowledge and skills and even a modest fee for using a small part of the building they work in. Charging thousands for the time we spent there is the problem. Socializing it would destroy incentives, not make it better!  I once had the opportunity to participate in a medical insurance pool. It charged much less than a regular insurance premium but covered expenses much better. It had a small overhead and almost every dollar collected was used to pay claims. It worked so well we actually had free coverage for months until a surplus was brought down. The difference was that no multistory building existed with the name of an Insurance Company and no non-medical Staff receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries. No gopher farm of clerical employees whose job it is to approve or deny claim payments. Medical care is a business and business is good because claims are payed by those with deep pockets with an Army of  paper pushers.    If you want the best medical care in the world, come to the USA. If you have Cancer your best chance for a cure or at least long term survival anywhere in the world is M.D. Anderson in Houston Texas. Many of the Worlds leaders and Elites come here because it is their best chance!

The point that you're making simply shows that there is a cost to every system.

In your case, you seem to be stating that socialising healthcare would reduce incentives. Let's say that I agree with you and that it does. Which, as a society, should we prioritise? Reducing incentives in order to ensure universal coverage, or increasing incentives at the expense of universal coverage??

Auggie wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 11:14am:

Panther wrote on Mar 30th, 2019 at 10:50am: .. Why a Judge Ruled Obamacare Unconstitutional.... Source:      The Heritage Foundation       Quote: ...........In 2012, in NFIB v. Sebelius, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the individual mandate by the narrowest of margins when Chief Justice John Roberts, providing the deciding vote, devised a novel theory construing the penalty associated with violating the individual mandate as a tax that Congress has the power to levy under the Constitution. Texas argues that once the penalty is reduced to $0, it can no longer be considered a legitimate tax, and that therefore the individual mandate would no longer have a constitutional leg to stand on. Moreover, Texas argues, in upholding the individual mandate, the Supreme Court appeared to rely on the argument that Congress considered the individual mandate to be a central—indeed, indispensable—component of Obamacare that is not “severable” from the rest of its provisions, and that without it, the rest of the law should be invalidated. A group of 17 states led by California are defending the law, arguing that even a tax of $0 is still a tax, and that it was never Congress’ intent to get rid of the rest of Obamacare when it repealed the financial penalty associated with the individual mandates as part of last year’s tax bill. In granting the plaintiffs’ motion, O’Connor stated, showing his agreement with Texas’ argument:     [quote]The [Tax Cuts and Jobs Act] eliminated that [individual mandate] tax. The Supreme Court’s reasoning in NFIB—buttressed by other binding precedent and plain text—thus compels the conclusion that the individual mandate may no longer be upheld under the tax power. And because the individual mandate continues to mandate the purchase of health insurance, it remains unsustainable under the Interstate Commerce Clause—as the Supreme Court already held.     Finally, Congress stated many times unequivocally—through enacted text signed by the president—that the individual mandate is “essential” to the ACA. And this essentiality, the [Affordable Care Act’s] text makes clear, means the mandate must work ‘together with the other provisions’ for the Act to function as intended. All nine justices to review the [Affordable Care Act] acknowledged this text and Congress’s manifest intent to establish the individual mandate as the [Affordable Care Act’s] ‘essential’ provision. The current and previous administrations have recognized that, too. Because rewriting the ACA without its ‘essential’ feature is beyond the power of an Article III court, the Court thus adheres to Congress’s textually expressed intent and binding Supreme Court precedent to find the individual mandate is inseverable from the [Affordable Care Act’s] remaining provisions......... (Follow this link to see the entire article) For a different slant (no, not the Chinese version ya racists)..... Also See:   Congress's Worst Nightmare: Obamacare May Be Unconstitutional ..

I'd hardly call this article an adequate explanation of the constitutionality of the law. It doesn't even mention the Constitution at all.

Again, Pather, if you love your beloved Constitution, quote the Section and Clause of the Constitution which you believe the Act violates and offer your explanation as to why you believe it so. [/quote]


Funny thing is that it only became unconstitutional in 2016 or 2017 due to changes made to a definition in legislation.

i.e it is a politically motivated and engineered unconstitutionality.

The mandate to require all Americans to have health insurance is clearly unconstitutional! You can not require Citizens to buy something because they live and breathe. To the best of my knowledge all owners of motor vehicles are required to carry some level of liability insurance if that vehicle is used on the public roads. If you do not own a Motor Vehicle used on public roads then no insurance is required. Since you are alive Obamacare mandated that everyone pay for health insurance so there is enough money to cover expenses for those receiving care. The Supreme Court declared it a tax. Anyone with a shred of honesty knows insurance premiums are not taxes.

If you really want to screw something up let the Government run it! I doubt the people who provide actual medical service get even one tenth of the cost to the public. Probably even less if you take into account their medical premiums!

Mortdooley wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 12:02am:

The mandate to require all Americans to have health insurance is clearly unconstitutional! You can not require Citizens to buy something because they live and breathe

Yes, you can. The Government is given the power to regulate trade and commerce between the States. There is no limit on this power to 'regulate' trade and commerce. The government has the power to set conditions on trade and commerce. This is a clear power.


Mortdooley wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 12:02am:

The Supreme Court declared it a tax. Anyone with a shred of honesty knows insurance premiums are not taxes.

It's not only a tax, it's a condition for purchasing something; i.e. regulation.

Auggie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 6:42pm:

Mortdooley wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 12:02am: The mandate to require all Americans to have health insurance is clearly unconstitutional! You can not require Citizens to buy something because they live and breathe Yes, you can. The Government is given the power to regulate trade and commerce between the States. There is no limit on this power to 'regulate' trade and commerce. The government has the power to set conditions on trade and commerce. This is a clear power. Mortdooley wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 12:02am: The Supreme Court declared it a tax. Anyone with a shred of honesty knows insurance premiums are not taxes. It's not only a tax, it's a condition for purchasing something; i.e. regulation.

Actually the problem was that it was a tax that had a rate of Zero. The constitutional problem isn't that it is a tax but that a tax of zero isn't really a tax.

How is it an insurance premium - no sorry wrong.

When Australia had a fixed price on carbon plenty were very determined to call it a tax, here we have a very similar situation I would think it would be a tax for the very same reason as the carbon price was a tax.