polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 10:31am:This must be part of the healthy marketplace of religious debate in Indonesia that apparently doesn't exist :)
I must say it surprising hearing the head of Indonesia's (and the world's) largest muslim organization so openly uttering such 'blasphemy' in a country where everyone apparently self-censors and only Islamic extremists are free to say whatever they want.
As for his thesis, sounds a bit too much like victim blaming to me. There are no jihadists in New Zealand, no Islamic terrorist threat, nor any emnity among the muslim community towards non-muslims that I am aware of. Personally I think that Islamophobia and neo-nazi threats are a "thing" in and of themselves, that don't need to be explained solely by Islamic militarism.
I agree though with his overall sentiment that muslims need to expunge any supremacist doctrine that foster emnity and hostility towards non-muslims from Islamic teachings.
Thats kinda stating the bleeding obvious though. |
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gandalf,
And what realistic chance ? ....that moslems themselves, will agree, 'to expunge any supremacist doctrine that foster emnity and hostility towards non-muslims from Islamic teachings.' ???Given that [to the followers of ISLAM]
the Koran must remain, as being viewed, as a sacrosanct, immutable, inerrant, document.
The words; 'snowflake' and 'chance in hell', come to mind.
Because we must understand, that ISLAM's most important foundation text, the Koran, is inerrant, being attributed [by all followers of ISLAM]
as coming straight from Allah's holy lips !!
.
"
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29
"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger,
even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22
"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends,
such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23
"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51
"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216
"O ye who believe!
Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111
"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are
hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29
"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4
