Oh dear won't the home solar Fans be annoyed!!

A house with solar creates a high voltage on the mains that damages appliances in neighboring houses.



Cheaper electricity—the eternal dream!
AMM 17.07.19.

http://morningmail.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/power-e1594923966120.jpg

It has been edging forward for some time. Especially after the ‘really great deals’ that lured the masses to uptake solar installations.

Be independent, save wads of money, even sell your generated power back to the energy provider—how sweet it was! As it is the energy provider, no, not you, that sets the price of electricity they now intend to reap your rewards. See how they will do it!

Householders with rooftop solar panels and batteries have reacted with fury to proposals which could see them charged for exporting power to the electricity grid.

Over the past decade, state governments have actively incentivized households to feed their solar into the grid, by offering generous feed-in tariff schemes.

Most have now closed to new entrants. But now, welfare groups and transmission company SA Power Networks have asked the Australian Energy Markets Commission to change market rules to impose a charge on household exporters.

https://morningmail.org/cheaper-electricity-the-eternal-dream/#more-118870



Rooftop solar panel owners could be getting charged fees to sell energy back to the grid
Source: ABC

They argue that under the current system, households without solar could be unfairly burdened with the cost of augmenting power networks to cope with the increase of new panels, which is already placing a strain on the network in states with heavy solar penetration like South Australia.

SA Power Networks spokesman Paul Roberts said the state’s grid is already reaching its capacity to support household solar networks.

“Actual customers themselves are seeing that their inverters are turning off at times because of voltage rising in the network,” Mr Roberts told ABC Radio Adelaide.

“And the renewables industry is getting concerned that networks like ours will have to impose zero limits on new customers so that we can accept those customers, but they won’t be able to export.

“So there needs to be a solution to that.”

Mr Roberts said SAPN’s proposal would likely see $10-$30 added to the annual electricity bill of a solar customer, and would not change the overall amount of money that the company was allowed to charge customers.

He said the current proposal would see existing solar customers excluded from paying, but conceded that could change.

Solar owners furious
The idea has drawn a furious response from many solar panel owners, including Adelaide man Michael Preus.
“People will just disconnect them, and tell them to get stuffed, that’s what I would do,” he said.

Mr Preus said he had installed his household solar PV system to save money and help the environment, but was now questioning his investment.

“We’ll never, ever in our lifetime recoup our investment, the return is just not there.”

But welfare groups including the Australian Council of Social Service and St Vincent de Paul Society are backing the move to charge people who export power.

SA Council of Social Service Chief Executive Ross Womersley said without change, households who cannot afford solar could be unfairly penalised for the cost of maintaining electricity supply.

“Those non-solar households that don’t have the benefits of solar will be left holding the grid and bearing the additional cost,” he said.

SA Power Networks spokesman Paul Roberts likened the charge to proposals to taxing electric vehicles, which are not contributing to petrol excise.

“Governments are really thinking about how are we going to get people who buy electric vehicles to contribute to road funding,” he said.

“And in the same way, I think we should be thinking about that for solar customers.”

The Grattan Institute’s Director of Energy Tony Wood said the problem should have been fixed years ago.

“We should have got this right in the first place,” he said.
“It does seem fair that you should pay for the use of that grid, otherwise the people who are not using solar are effectively subsidising your solar system.
“They’re not doing it deliberately.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/rooftop-solar-owners-could-be-charged-to-sell-energy-to-the-grid/12461748

A few good comments from the bloke in the street


Disgruntled 17/07/2020, 7:12 am
(“It does seem fair that you should pay for the use of that grid, otherwise the people who are not using solar are effectively subsidising your solar system.)

Too high a voltage is as bad as too low a voltage and solar with it’s on and off apparently causes headaches for the electricity system managers. as well as very high costs to overcome.

The high cost of upgrades to the supply infrastructure is one reason for the concern; panel owners get away free here and non-owners pay up with the high cost of the upgrades needed for some of their installations of solar systems.

Some few years ago I had a good talk to a chap who worked in the electrical “poles and wires etc.”area. He told me of one instance where the electrical supply mob would have been better off financially by supplying free electricity to one installation for life than doing the upgrades needed for that particular installation to be able to use solar.

Another instance was where there was a small block “farm” with 2 houses and a shed and 3 free standing panel units were installed. The upgrade cost was not a lot short of 20 grand and guess what; the cost was covered by the system users, not the panel owners; and the panel owners reaped the benefit of cheaper electricity as well as the increased feed back returns. A win win for the panel owners and a lose lose for everyone else.

This obscene situation needs to change and it is time for the panel owners to pull their weight instead of sucking up their benefits from the non panel owners.

The govt at the time should have seen the problems coming before they got so generous and acted accordingly. Hey?; how many times do govts ever get it right before acting? And now panel owners think it is their god given right to get as many subsidies as they possibly can scrounge up!! AND I have heard of a couple instances where some are rumoured to be “working” the system for a good financial advantage.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/rooftop-solar-owners-could-be-charged-to-sell-energy-to-the-grid/12461748

another link to use up a bit of time at.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/03/the-ugly-side-o.html


Bwana Neusi 17/07/2020, 3:03 pm
And may well you be Disgruntled! The utopian dream of unlimited free electricity to replace all those smelly CO2 belching power stations is just round the corner – or so the green dream goes.
SA is first can off the rank to reach a level where solar and wind generation can exceed demand and stuff voltages through the roof, whilst power stations still have to run spinning reserves in case of a downturn.
We have solar panels and we export to the grid and collect a feed in tariff (until the end of this month).
When governments decide to slug us for their poor thinking, we will install batteries and use and save our own power. Simples!


luk1955 17/07/2020, 7:42 am
When solar first came out I argued this to no avail. That it would discriminate against the people least able to afford the solar panels. The solar panels feed electrical spikes into the grid past the generator supply that cannot be filtered out, and this may be causing the high failure rate of modern whitegoods. I am seeing a lot of 3-6 year old whitegoods coming into the scrap area of the retailer I work for, and not all can be due to 3rd world manufacturing standards. And I have noticed a big increase in just the last 3 years.


wal1957 17/07/2020, 11:25 am
“When solar first came out I argued this to no avail. That it would discriminate against the people least able to afford the solar panels.”
I did as well Luk. Alas, all I received in return were blank stares.
It is the same look I get if I bring up the subject of nuclear power when people are so concerned about CO2 emissions.
BTW, they always say ‘carbon’ emissions because they have not a clue what they are talking about.


Neville 17/07/2020, 6:07 pm
Disagree slightly, Wal. They know EXACTLY what they’re talking about; the goal is to catch-up ALL gases that contain carbon in the molecule. Gives the lefties a bigger club to beat people into submission, you see!


Cliff 17/07/2020, 8:52 am
Another ‘run’ to add to Malcolm Turnbull’s ‘score’?


DT 17/07/2020, 10:55 am
Howard Government Minister Mansion did claim that electricity in Australia (and water) is too cheap, and that dams were no damn good and desalination plants are a better alternative.
Renewables transition into poverty for the nation.


Penguinite 17/07/2020, 9:17 am
“people who are not using solar are effectively subsidising your solar system.”
This none believer has been saying that for at least 15 years. How about the irony of a Mr Prius objecting to the idea.


Lorraine 17/07/2020, 10:49 am
As you say , that is the reason I installed solar on my garage roof, you do save a little bit on feed in , but you gain that little bit of “I am not paying to others”

A few more comments

DT 17/07/2020, 11:09 am
Like with wind turbines solar is a not cost effective exercise in futility that would not be considered without taxpayer via government special specific subsidies.

And how many domestic rooftop solar owners complete a cost-benefit analysis, most I believe are convinced by clever sales and marketing.

With a deteriorating performance over the effective working life of up to 25 years, often much less, for example I have read reports on solar panel powered water pumps on cattle stations, solar panels lasting less than 10 years. Therefore there is a replacement cost to consider. There is a funding cost even if the owner pays cash the funds can no longer be invested. Etc.

On the other businesses can write off the costs against taxable income.

Solar can only provide energy for roughly half of every twenty four hours, and best on perfect days between 10 am and 2 pm. So the rating of solar must be based on effective operating periods, not “nameplate” capacity.

Of course a hybrid system of combined solar, batteries and diesel/petrol generator (even add a small wind turbine) will support a small grid, as on King Island in Bass Strait, but the fact is that even with the now world’s highest electricity prices connection to the electricity grid remains the better option when available.

To consider that our world’s largest interconnected electricity grid could maintain essential baseload with wind, solar and batteries is ridiculous.

Diesel or gas fuelled back up generators are necessary, and on the Australian grid example baseload generators in power stations are never using known technology going to be eliminated.



DT 17/07/2020, 11:20 am
Solar Owners in South Australia are furious that they might be charged to sell back to the grid. They are used to getting all the transmission lines and power plants for free.

The awful truth:

Mr Preus said he had installed his household solar PV system to save money and help the environment, but was now questioning his investment.

“We’ll never, ever in our lifetime recoup our investment, the return is just not there.”

“People will just disconnect them, and tell them to get stuffed, that’s what I would do,” he said.

They’ve been sold a lemon: misled into believing the energy the panels made was useful and economic. Instead solar owners without batteries can only provide excess energy no one needs at lunchtime. Lunchtime voltages are surging and their inverters are tripping off anyhow. And they themselves need to be hooked up to the grid to get the electro-juice they want, most hours of the day.

Finally there is some attempt to fix the Soviet-level planning disaster. People are just starting to notice that the poor are paying for the networks to supply the rich.

But the call to charge them comes from welfare groups:

Householders with rooftop solar panels and batteries have reacted with fury to proposals which could see them charged for exporting power to the electricity grid.

But now, welfare groups and transmission company SA Power Networks have asked the Australian Energy Markets Commission to change market rules to impose a charge on household exporters.

They argue that under the current system, households without solar could be unfairly burdened with the cost of augmenting power networks to cope with the increase of new panels,

But those wanting to change the rules have to make a very good case, or the anger and righteous indignance will stop the rule change. To that end, the phrase “free ride” is a good start.

This fee supposedly adds $20 – $30 dollars a year. A pittance compared to the damage bill.

We are already taxed for the grid, look on your electricity bill, you are not just paying for power. Are power generating companies taxed for using the grid? The feed in tariff is less than half of what the power is sold for.

I guess pay per post is not earning you enough to afford PV, Julia.

Nothing like a dyed in the wool hard core Solar Fan Boy splattering his neighbors' appliances with excess voltage leading to premature failure. 

Just think of all that Woke Greeny hypocrisy going to waste. Another impractical Greeny scheme fails.



Energy operator wants to remotely switch off rooftop solar systems amid 'uncontrolled growth'
By Nick Harmsen Posted ThuThursday 30 AprApril 2020 at 4:01pm

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/11123764-16x9-xlarge.jpg
Close up of solar panels.. The AEMO is considering restrictions on rooftop solar power systems.(ABC News: Jake Evans)

Australia's electricity grid operator wants the power to remotely switch off or constrain the output of new rooftop solar systems, as it finds ways to manage South Australia's world-leading levels of "invisible and uncontrolled" solar output.

Key points:
Up to 85 per cent of SA's power demand could be met by solar by 2025
This high reliance poses challenges to the security of the grid
Requirements on new solar systems are being looked at to manage the growth

The recommendation is contained in a new report by the Australian Energy Market Operator, which sets out how it will manage the grid up to 2025.

At times, as much as 75 per cent of Australia's energy is forecast to be provided by wind and solar.

The report shows at certain points last year, 64 per cent of South Australia's power demand was met by rooftop solar alone.

AEMO's forecasts show that figure could grow as high 85 per cent by 2025, with rooftop solar also tipped to dominate supply at times in in Victoria (up to 66 per cent), Queensland (57 per cent) and New South Wales (48 per cent).

But the runaway success of solar power poses serious challenges for the security of the grid, because it operates "behind-the-meter", out of control of the authorities.

To manage the growth, AEMO is looking to impose requirements on new solar systems in South Australia to enable "generation-shedding capabilities" as soon as possible.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/6063896-16x9-xlarge.jpg
By 2025, up to 85 per cent of the state's power demand could be met by solar at certain times.(Infinity Solar)

Other states and territories will be encouraged to adopt a similar approach.

While the use of batteries might help the market operator avoid powering down household rooftop systems, it describes the ability to remotely control panels as an essential "back-stop".

AEMO's managing director Audrey Ziebelman says the study makes clear that the current approaches used to manage the electricity market are becoming less effective as the grid continues its transformation to world-leading levels of renewable generation.

"Australia already has the technical capability to safely operate a power system where three quarters of our energy at times comes from wind and solar energy generation," Ms Ziebelman said.

"However, to do so requires changes in our markets and regulatory requirements, otherwise, AEMO will be required to limit the contribution of these wind and solar resources to 50 or 60 per cent of electricity supply at any point in time, even though they are the lowest cost way of providing electricity."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-30/grid-operator-looks-to-manage-solar-power-output-in-sa/12202004

What a load of crap. Big business once again trying to rip of consumers ... and the dickheads in govt. will let them

Mr Smith rushes in with the Lefties' standard solution to everything - DENY IT ALL!!!!

SA has proved the impractical Greeny schemes are a failure. Wonder how much the freeloader solar owners will be hit with now for supplying useless energy ?


Concerns over plan to switch off household solar panels when grid is unstable
7.30 / By Ange Donnellan Posted Wed 20 May 2020 at 5:22pm, updated Wed 20 May 2020 at 6:24pm

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12267920-16x9-xlarge.jpg
Thanasis Avramis has rooftop solar panels and is not pleased about AEMO's proposal.(ABC News: Carl Saville)

Thanasis Avramis has been an advocate of solar panels since he had them installed in 2008.

Key points:
The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) wants the ability to switch off household solar systems
AEMO says the measure would only be needed in emergencies to stabilise grid
Thanasis Avramis says it would make "Australian families pay for the mistakes of others"

He is not happy with a new proposal from authorities to switch off or constrain output from household solar systems as an emergency measure to stabilise the nation's electricity grid.

"In the last 12 years we've probably earned about $9,000 worth of feed-in tariff. That's been a very substantial reduction in the cost of our electricity," Mr Avramis told 7.30.

"The default position has often been to force a solution on Australian families for problems that are the fault of the network as a whole — and the regulator, and the many particular governments at one time or another that have not been able to plan properly."

Australia is leading the world in per capita growth of rooftop solar, with new panels installed about every six and a half minutes.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12267930-4x3-xlarge.jpg
A workman carries a solar panel on a rooftop.. Australia's love for solar panels is sometimes leading to grid instability.(ABC News)

Since 2010, the number of panels across the nation has grown from 100,000 to 2.2 million.

But the proliferation is at times leading to grid instability, prompting the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) to call for the switch-off measure.

AEMO CEO Audrey Zibelman said it would only be used in emergencies if the grid became overwhelmed.

"This is very temporary, very limited and really, what we would say, a last resort control we need if we were worried the system would otherwise go black," Ms Zibelman told 7.30.

"When we have way too much solar there's so little load we can't even manage to keep the balance with the generators, and in that context there's always a risk that the system could fail and will go black."

Changes to affect new solar systems
Households installing solar in the future would be affected by the measure through new inverter standards.

So-called "smart inverters" have software that can be externally controlled.

AEMO said existing panel owners would not be asked to retrofit their systems but they would be caught up in the changes if their inverter needed replacement. The lifespan of an inverter is about 10 years.

"What we're looking at is for people to put in these smart inverters and to have standards in place so we could do it now. We have to take these actions in the next few years. This is not something we can wait on," Ms Zibelman said.

If solar panels were switched off by the electricity distributor, households could still draw electricity from the grid.

"When the inverter operates to disconnect from the power system the solar stops operating. As people are looking at smart integrated systems with batteries, the expectation is that the batteries would serve as a backup," she said.

AEMO said too much solar was an issue when demand for electricity was low.

In South Australia last spring, minimum demand records were repeatedly broken in the middle of the day amid mild sunny conditions, including on November 10 when rooftop solar peaked at 64 per cent of the state's energy needs.

Solar operates "behind the meter" or out of control of the authorities. As the level of solar is unpredictable it poses challenges for frequency and voltage. AEMO said South Australia was particularly at risk if it became disconnected from the national electricity grid.

"We don't have visibility in the sense we don't know it's [solar] going to be there. It makes the operation of the system harder for us," Ms Zibelman told 7.30.

"It's almost like driving without your headlights."

By 2025 renewable energy is predicted to supply up to 75 per cent of the nation's power.

"We wouldn't want a situation where we have these systems create an issue, where we lose the entirety of the power system and it goes black for a long time. I think everyone would agree that's not an outcome we would want," Ms Zibelman said.

"Rooftop solar is such an important part of the system now we need to make sure it works."

The proposed changes could prompt some people to go off-grid, says Thanasis Avramis.(ABC News)
Energy analyst Bruce Mountain said solar helped keep prices down.

Read a bit more here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-20/concerns-over-plan-to-switch-off-household-solar-panels/12267162

Setanta wrote on Jul 18^th, 2020 at 12:22am:

We are already taxed for the grid, look on your electricity bill, you are not just paying for power. Are power generating companies taxed for using the grid? The feed in tariff is less than half of what the power is sold for. I guess pay per post is not earning you enough to afford PV, Julia.

$5 per post is a good earner.

It is looking pretty bleak for all those solar Fan Boys freeloading now that WA is also going to chop off home solar freeloaders.



Authorities look to control household rooftop solar power systems to stabilize the grid
By Daniel Mercer Posted Sun 8 Dec 2019 at 6:21am, updated Mon 9 Decr 2019 at 1:00am

The body that runs WA's main electricity market wants the ability to remotely dump excess solar power from households — cutting the bill rebates people receive — to safeguard the grid from surging levels of renewable energy and avoid rolling power cuts.

Key points:
Too much solar power in WA is threatening the stability of the electricity grid
The market operator wants the ability to control households' solar power input
The alternative is potentially rolling power cuts to avoid the grid overloading

Audrey Zibelman, the chief executive of the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), said so-called smart inverters would be crucial to ensuring the rise of rooftop solar did not overwhelm the stability of the power network.

The call has been backed by the WA Government and Energy Minister Bill Johnston said having a better insight into and control over the output from rooftop solar was vital.

It comes following warnings from AEMO that WA's biggest power system — the wholesale electricity market — risked becoming unstable within a few years because of the runaway take-up of solar panels.

Ms Zibelman said the switch to renewable energy by growing numbers of households and businesses was unlikely to stop and it was incumbent on authorities to ensure the transition was managed carefully.

A key part of this process was smart inverters, which would enable AEMO to "spill" excess power generated from rooftop solar panels at times when the network was coming under stress.

It is understood the devices have been progressively rolled out thanks to an industry agreement in 2017, but Ms Zibelman said their integration should be fast-tracked.

At the moment, households can freely export any surplus power produced from their solar panels into the grid, with state-owned power provider Synergy paying a minimum subsidy of 7.1 cents per unit.

But AEMO has warned such uncontrolled input of solar power placed great stress on the coal- and gas-fired power stations responsible for keeping the grid stable.

Problem arises from solar's success
Ms Zibelman said the arrangement was not a problem back when there were relatively small numbers of solar panels on the system.

But she said it had become a significant liability for the security of the electricity system now that almost one in three homes on WA's south-west grid had solar panels.

There are almost 300,000 households in the network with photovoltaic (PV) cells, which have a combined capacity of more than 1,000 megawatts.

By comparison, the biggest generator on the system is the 854MW Muja coal-fired power station at Collie in the state's South West.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/10937900-4x3-large.jpg
The Muja power station is contracted to buy coal from Premier until 2030.. The biggest generator on the system is the Muja coal-fired power station.(ABC News: Eliza Borrello)

"When you had maybe 1 or 2 per cent of the population putting on rooftop solar, we don't really worry if there are solar units there or not," Ms Zibelman said.

"But when you have as many as we have, we need to be able to see it.

"We need to be able to anticipate how that solar is going to respond, and where it's going to respond, so we can be ready as a real-time system."

When high solar output meets low demand
Central to the technical challenge posed by solar is its effect on demand from the grid during the middle of the day.

These challenges tended to be most acute when high levels of solar output coincided with low levels of demand — typically on mild, sunny days in spring or autumn when people were not using their air conditioners.

In such circumstances, AEMO has warned solar was hollowing out demand from the grid to such an extent that base-load generators such as coal-fired plants were struggling to operate safely.

Authorities were managing the situation by requiring base-load generators responsible for the stability of the grid to scale back or even switch off production, but AEMO said this was increasingly a risk to the security of the system.

AEMO warned allowing demand from the grid to fall below 700MW could trigger widescale blackouts by 2022.

Rolling power cuts to keep system stable
Alternatively, AEMO warned it may have resort to "load shedding" — or rolling power restrictions across entire areas — to avoid production from solar panels overwhelming the grid.

Ms Zibelman said batteries, including large-scale storage facilities, would help balance the system in the future, but AEMO needed other short-term options at its disposal.

Read on here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-08/authorities-look-to-control-house-rooftop-solar-power-in-wa/11773436

As soon as batteries get a little cheaper the gov. and the energy companies can all go fuq themselves. I'll be totally off grid and they can cut the line to my house altogether.

This was always on the cards, one cant keep having more power being back fed into the network without smacking the network up.

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:51am:

This was always on the cards, one cant keep having more power being back fed into the network without smacking the network up.

There needs to be a way to absorb then reuse that power.
One way is batteries but a better way to store
more power is to pump water uphill to a reservoir
and then release the energy through turbines
when needed.

All that money tied up in useless stuff on your roof that you are now going to be charged for because you are upsetting the network.

What is urgently needed is HUGE Hydrogen Energy Storage to sop up the excess energy. Come on the Hydrogen Energy Revolution and make Australia fuel independent.



WA Parliament microgrid report fails to address how to fix our solar power network
By Daniel Mercer Posted Thu 20 Feb 2020 at 6:40pm, updated Thu 20 Feb 2020 at 8:29pm

Solar households are paid 7.1 cents per unit of electricity they pump back into the grid.(ABC News: Jerry Rickard)

In the debate about creating the renewable electricity system, actions as well as words are often driven by what feels right, or even what feels good.

People like renewable energy, for the most part, and images of wind turbines and sun-kissed solar panels play well to the public.

So, the report by a West Australian Parliamentary committee into "micro-grids and associated technologies" — ostensibly renewable energy and how best to integrate it — taps into that wellspring of excitement.

The report outlines the need for better planning to ensure the proliferation of solar panels across people's homes in WA is properly harnessed to the net benefit of the system and, by extension, household electricity bills.

Where the report falls short is in dealing with the hardest part of electricity reform: pricing.

At some stage, this or another government will have to face up to the need to fix electricity prices.

For years now, politicians on all sides have known the tariff structure which underpins much of the electricity market is fundamentally broken and must be fixed if the right investments are to be made and the system is to be secured.

The reason for this is largely to do with the rampant popularity of rooftop solar, which accounts for more than 1200MW of capacity and is easily the biggest single source of generation in the system.

Solar is now such a large part of the energy mix in WA that it is causing problems only a few people envisaged a decade ago.

Solar upsets the grid's stability
At the heart of the challenge is the way in which solar output swells in an uncontrolled way during the middle of the day, often displacing other generators such as gas- and coal-fired power plants.

On mild days when solar efficiency is particularly high and demand might be low, solar power can force a significant share of the power generation offline.

That might sound good, and in so many ways it is.

Synergy's $657 million loss
But where the situation becomes problematic is when there is a sharp change in generation, like when clouds blot out a mass of solar panels in Perth at once, or demand changes rapidly — an industrial customer going offline suddenly, for example.

In these circumstances, the so-called firming services provided by conventional power plants, and which keep the system on an even keel, can be stretched thin.

That's when the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), which runs the wholesale market in WA and is responsible for keeping the lights on, begins to worry.

While the uptake of solar might have initially been driven by generous state and federal incentives, it is now being helped by a mismatch in electricity prices.

Put simply, the way we use electricity in a solar world has changed but the tariff system has not.

The way we pay for electricity in WA — and therefore the way electricity providers recover their costs — is based on how much we draw from the grid.

The usage charge still represents the lion's share of what households are supposed to pay every year in their power bills.

But, of course, households with solar often use much less power from the grid.

They still cost just as much to service, but they're paying a fraction compared with households that don't or can't have solar on their roofs.

What's more, the major remaining incentive scheme — the renewable energy buyback scheme administered by state-owned providers Synergy and Horizon Power — is amplifying many of these effects.

Under the scheme, households are paid a flat rate of 7.1 cents for every unit of electricity they pump back into the grid.

This excess energy is worth very little in the middle of the day — some in the energy industry would say nothing — and arguably a small fortune later in the day when it is actually needed.

Yet the payment stays the same around the clock.

The report recommends further trials of different electricity tariffs, and points to Horizon's efforts to test charging customers mobile-phone-style bills as an example, but those are unlikely to reveal anything not already known.

Battery projects left in regulatory limbo
The report also talks about the need to overhaul and bring into the 21st century electricity rules and regulations that have been left behind by the rapid advance of technology.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/11210352-4x3-xlarge.jpg
An aerial photo of batteries and solar panels in a dry landscape. Integrated solar and battery farms have been adopted in other states, such as the Gannawarra farm in Kerang, Victoria.(Supplied: Edify Energy.)

Read on for more bad news here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-20/law-reform-for-micro-grids-could-revolutionise-electricity-bills/11985388

You know, I was looking at ways for the grid to soak up excess produced energy so how about this? The energy companies run cryptocurrency farms and hydrogen and oxygen production with the excess? They could keep the baseload turning over and when there is excess pour it onto things that can be turned up and down with ease that produce money. Energy sinks that make money. Any other ideas for things that can make money from excess energy that can be ramped up and down quickly?

The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet.

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:20pm:

The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet.

If I got 2c kWh I'd crunch cryptocurrency myself instead.

Setanta wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:29pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 9:20pm: The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet. If I got 2c kWh I'd crunch cryptocurrency myself instead.

Crypto is all well and good but it comes down to number crunching.

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:40pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 9:29pm: Johnnie wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 9:20pm: The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet. If I got 2c kWh I'd crunch cryptocurrency myself instead. Crypto is all well and good but it comes down to number crunching.

It comes down to power costs. If I was getting nothing for my power I may as well use that power on running ASICs that used that power mining crypto.

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:20pm:

The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet.

What good of the planet? Cobalt mining by children? Silica dust? Rare earths mining destroying agricultural land? 

And they still need huge amounts of steel, copper, cement. And of course you have to run back up generators all the time for when the Weather Dependent Renewables don't work hard enough.

lee wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:51pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 9:20pm: The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet. What good of the planet? Cobalt mining by children? Silica dust? Rare earths mining destroying agricultural land?  And they still need huge amounts of steel, copper, cement. And of course you have to run back up generators all the time for when the Weather Dependent Renewables don't work hard enough.

Nothing wrong with some backup gas fired generators with huge wind powered generators and solar panels as the primary source of power, all for nuclear power grunt though.

The ultimate kick in the teeth when the Solar Fan boy/girl has trouble with the white elephant sitting on their roof and then finds the crooks who "installed" it have disappeared along with the now useless "warranty"!!!!




What to do if your solar company goes out of business
Alison Potter Last updated: 11 October 2018

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ger_Devlin/publication/252592087/figure/fig1/AS:393152780357641@1470746335954/Fig-1-Schematic-example-of-a-solar-Photovoltaic-system-13.png
Schematic example of a solar Photovoltaic system

Thousands of solar systems in Australia have been left stranded by solar companies that have been wound up.
sunset reflected on solar panels.

Are you stranded with a faulty solar PV system that should still be under warranty but the solar company has been wound up?

There may be hundreds of thousands of solar systems across Australia 'orphaned' in this way. We advise how best to avoid this, and what to do if you're in this situation.

On this page:
The problem of disappearing solar companies
What to do if your solar company goes bust
Why we all pay when solar companies go out of business
How to avoid a dodgy solar company

The problem of disappearing solar companies.
CHOICE Help, the consumer advisory service for our members, hears from a lot of solar owners with various issues but at least 10% of these involve companies that have liquidated, leaving the member with a faulty system and little recourse.

In a CHOICE survey of more than 1000 solar owners, 30% reported they had a problem with the solar company and four percent reported they had a problem getting warranties honoured.

Fair Trading NSW confirmed that in the last financial year they've had 29 complaints about liquidated or deregistered solar companies and 245 complaints about refunds, repairs and warranties in the solar industry.

The boom-and-bust nature of the solar industry, often due to the prevailing government policy, has led to many honest and not-so-honest companies going under.

Markus Lambert, general manager of solar and energy at LG, has been compiling a list of ASIC notices of companies with 'solar' in their name that are in liquidation or proposed deregistration since 2011.

"It's currently at 610," he says, "and we check every four to six weeks and add 10 to 12 companies every time."

Lambert estimates that there could be approximately 600,000 solar PV systems 'orphaned' this way, out of the approximately 1.9 million installed in Australia. That's about 31%.

Finn Peacock, a chartered electrical engineer and solar energy expert, has watched companies rise and fall in the industry for more than 10 years and says many genuinely run out of cash.

"Solar is hard on cash flow and margins can be slim. One big commercial job that goes bad or is not paid for can kill a company."

What to do if your solar company goes bust.

Read on and be depressed and wondering what to do with your that big white elephant on your roof here

https://www.choice.com.au/home-improvement/energy-saving/solar/articles/what-to-do-if-your-solar-company-goes-out-of-business

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 10:07pm:

Nothing wrong with some backup gas fired generators with huge wind powered generators and solar panels as the primary source of power, all for nuclear power grunt though.

Renewables can not become the primary source of power. They not efficient enough.

People confuse the nameplate capacity with the capacity factor. The capacity factor for solar is about 18%-20%. For wind up to about 35%. The capacity factor is a percentage of nameplate capacity. It tells us what the derived power may be.

But even if we build to 3-5 times installed capacity, it won't give us stability of supply. And those back generators have to be kept running, at reduced capacity, anyway.

They can be useful in small communities where there is no manufacturing.

Consider Coober Pedy -

"EDL has been operating the plant, a mix of wind, solar, batteries, flywheels, diesel and resistors, since 2017 – and it says that the average share of renewables in the town’s electricity supply since then has been 70 per cent.

Even more impressively, for more than half the time it has been running at 100 per cent renewables, with the longest uninterrupted period of 100 per cent renewables being 81 hours, achieved in December last year. And it has been running at 99.9 per cent reliability."

https://reneweconomy.com.au/coober-pedy-powered-by-100-per-cent-renewables-most-of-the-time-80275/

So less than 3.5 continually days since 2017. And they still need the diesel generator.

Alice Springs has a solar system which failed spectacularly when a cloud blew over!!

wonder if they have any lifts in Alice Springs ?  Wonder how the solar panels work in the moonlight ?

Now if they had an Hydrogen Energy Storage System to sop up all the surplus energy this would never have happened.


Can the Northern Territory cope with a transition to 50% renewables?
By Felicity James Posted Thursday 12 December 2019 at 7:13am, updated Thursday 12 December 2019 at 7:43pm

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/11781986-3x2-xlarge.jpg
Solar panels at the Uterne solar power station near Alice Springs. The Alice Springs power system was unable to cope with a minor cloud over the Uterne solar farm.(Supplied: Epuron)

It was a minor weather event the Alice Springs power system should have been able to cope with — an afternoon cloud drifted by causing a drop in output from the Uterne solar farm and rooftop solar.

Key points:
The Utilities Commission warns NT systems are not robust enough for renewables target
The territory could still achieve its renewables target with careful planning, according to Grattan Institute
A solar industry group says the sacking of NT utilities bosses was not necessary

Instead, the predictable event had been "unforeseen" by operators and a cascade of system and procedural failures caused a "system black" on October 13, according to a Northern Territory Utilities Commission investigation into the incident.

The outage affected 12,000 customers for up to 10 hours, including the hospital, vulnerable elderly people and those on life support, and remote communities such as Haasts Bluff almost 230 kilometres away.

The cloud itself was not the problem though, according to the NT Utilities Commission.

"The system should be able to cope with it, it didn't," Commissioner Lyndon Rowe told the ABC.

"We should be able to design systems that can withstand clouds — clouds are not unusual events."

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/8511572-3x2-xlarge.jpg
Looking down from Anzac Hill across the Alice Springs downtown area. The mass power outage on October 13 was Alice Springs' second mass power outage in as many weeks.(ABC News: Neda Vanovac)

Alice Springs has in the past led the way with renewable energy research and development in the NT — when the NT Government set its 50 per cent renewables by 2030 target two years ago, industry pushed for the town to become a "solar hub".

But Commissioner Rowe said there were lessons to be learnt from the most recent Alice Springs incident, about what happens when solar integration is not managed properly.

What went wrong?
Among the basic failures, the generators were not functioning properly at the Owen Springs power station before the system black, but there were no alarms to alert operators to this fact.

A new battery energy storage system — a positive addition according to the Commissioner — started functioning properly but then failed because it had the wrong settings.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/9282958-3x2-xlarge.jpg
Workmen on a truck with a Territory Generation banner. Territory Generation is facing pressure to permanently reopen and restaff the Ron Goodin Power Station.(Supplied: Territory Generation)

Not enough work had been done to learn how to integrate the battery technology into the system.

"This illustrates the need for good coordination across the system," Commissioner Rowe said.

Don't be kept in the dark, read on here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-12/alice-springs-blackout/11781970

How the Greenies want to sabotage the power supply to shut down ALL industry in Australia and return it to a backward primitive ghetto the like of which you would find in darkest Africa today.

Renewable rubbish only works about 3 days a week.

They definitely need an Hydrogen Energy Storage System which would store huge amounts of surplus energy ready for any emergency.

The silly little battery is useless as it is flat in a matter of seconds!!!

Yet another Greeny failure.




Shine comes off solar from Alice Springs failure
Chris McLennan DECEMBER 10 2019 - 9:00AM

https://nnimgt-a.akamaihd.net/transform/v1/crop/frm/39XqhrgY6riNnQBs6VEtc8R/c2dce8ac-8cab-4489-837c-1c55b7e7101c.jpg/r180_0_960_440_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
A passing cloud at Uterne Solar Station at Alice Springs has placed the NT's reliance on solar under question.

The NT's claim to be home to one of the world's leading solar energy resources lost some of its shine yesterday.

All because of a cloud.

One of the many factors which caused the nine hour blackout in Alice Springs in October was such a cloud.

"The output of Uterne solar station was relatively constant at around 3.3 MW until 1:43 PM. At 1:43 PM a cloud passed over the station and station output became highly variable with reductions in output to as low as 0.5 MW," the report found.

In the blink of an eye, the almost four megawatts of power supplied from the Uterne Solar Farm into the local grid became a fraction of that.

Combined with the many folks who happily connect their roof-top solar to the grid in return for free power and even power credits, the cloud caught local power providers napping.

So much so that investigators have recommended power companies in this part of the world buy a cloud forecasting service so they can at least see the power dip coming.

That is if we continue to rely ever more heavily on solar for baseload power.

The NT Government gave the Utilities Commission the job of finding what went wrong that day in Alice Springs.

When you combined 40 degree temperatures with power cuts of eight hours, it makes for hot under the collar voters in central Australia.

The investigators made it clear solar wasn't solely to blame.

Even the battery hooked up the network did what it could but was only designed to be used for seconds, not hours.

Trying to untangle the jargon used by the investigators it is clear there was a stuff up.

The transfer of the baseload power from the Ron Goodin Power Station to the new Owen Springs Power Station was going too fast with far too little co-ordination.

https://nnimgt-a.akamaihd.net/transform/v1/crop/frm/39XqhrgY6riNnQBs6VEtc8R/cccb5b90-c611-4df6-98f3-f4bc57cfb3f0.jpg/r33_26_328_420_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
Owen Springs provides power from a combination of gas and diesel generators. Picture: Territory Generation.

But the Alice Springs blackout has also highlighted out future trust in solar might be shortsighted.

Again in its report, the Utilities Commission said "the sudden unforeseen (by those managing the system) reduction in solar generation due to cloud which precipitated the system black is not considered a root cause of the system black, as a power system should be designed as far as practical to be sufficiently robust to withstand this"

"However, it is further evidence that the current systems (including Darwin/Katherine and Tennant Creek) may not be agile and robust enough to support an early transition towards the Territory Governments 50 per cent renewables by 2030 target."

https://nnimgt-a.akamaihd.net/transform/v1/crop/frm/39XqhrgY6riNnQBs6VEtc8R/7b1f8b29-4861-4c3f-a170-3efd5d84f1cf.jpg/r0_129_829_595_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
Ron Goodin Power Station is mostly gas powered.

Don't be under a cloud read on here

https://www.katherinetimes.com.au/story/6534032/shine-comes-off-solar-from-alice-springs-failure/

Strewth Julia, anyone with solar panels will tell you they are good value, even with the dismal 1 cent feed in bonus, i have had mine for 10yrs and they have paid for themselves 3 times over, i can run my AC for 4hrs per day when the sun is shining for zero dollars or emissions, i am crafty with my solar and only vacuum or do the washing etc when the sun is shining.

Right now there are a lot of solar and wind farms putting out mega megawatts of clean energy, if they were not viable they wouldn't be there. 1 windy mill puts out power enough to feed 13,000 houses every year.

Cobalt and silica you say,, black lung disease and a choking planet!

Johnnie wrote on Jul 31^st, 2020 at 12:29pm:

Strewth Julia, anyone with solar panels will tell you they are good value, even with the dismal 1 cent feed in bonus, i have had mine for 10yrs and they have paid for themselves 3 times over, i can run my AC for 4hrs per day when the sun is shining for zero dollars or emissions, i am crafty with my solar and only vacuum or do the washing etc when the sun is shining.

Strewth. Who new solar panels were "green" after manufacture and until they expire? ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Jul 31^st, 2020 at 12:36pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jul 31st, 2020 at 12:29pm: Strewth Julia, anyone with solar panels will tell you they are good value, even with the dismal 1 cent feed in bonus, i have had mine for 10yrs and they have paid for themselves 3 times over, i can run my AC for 4hrs per day when the sun is shining for zero dollars or emissions, i am crafty with my solar and only vacuum or do the washing etc when the sun is shining. Strewth. Who new solar panels were "green" after manufacture and until they expire? ;D ;D ;D ;D

After 20yrs plus and many megawatts of free clean energy, kind of puts your argument sus.

Johnnie wrote on Jul 31^st, 2020 at 12:50pm:

After 20yrs plus and many megawatts of free clean energy, kind of puts your argument sus.

Nope. Perhaps you can give us the CO2 emissions amongst others used in the manufacture of your "green" solar panels.

BTW- Have you really had your panels installed for 20 years?

JD, you are fortunate that you can exploit your system so effectively.

I assume you are home during the day to be able to use the main energy time during midday.

That is unless you have battery storage.

For people who are at work during the day they can't use the midday power UNLESS they have about $20.000.00 worth of batteries to store the energy.

In an area where there is dust the solar panels quickly lose power until the dust is cleaned off. This is a major problem for those farms in desert areas.

Someone once posted you need 7 Tesla Lithium Ion batteries to be able to charge a Tesla car overnight.

One very dodgy aspect of having those batteries installed close to your house is the EVER PRESENT risk of them catching fire if a fault develops in one or more of the individual cells.

Would do wonders for your insurance claim. Especially if it was rejected for having such a dangerous installation so close to your house.

JD, you could have one of those electric car thingos and charge it with your solar panels. Very cheap travel for short distances.

A freak hail storm works wonders for a solar panel installation. Lets the air into them.

And isn't it annoying when there is a week of overcast rainy weather. Thank heavens for the reliable coal fired power mains.

Do the solar Fan Boys and Girls feel guilty about costing all the non solar homes big money ?  And damaging their neighbors appliances with excessive voltage their solar panels are putting on the mains ?  Of course not.

Just like Greenies don't care about the hundreds of birds wind farms kill.



Solar subsidy death spiral: $2 billion in Australia, rising 50% pa as electricity prices rocket
h/t Pat and Dave B. February 20th, 2019

https://s3.amazonaws.com/jo.nova/photo/man-made/renewables/solar/solar-panels-ulleo-m.jpg
Solar Panels cost more than people realize.

A few Australians are just beginning to realize that they are paying for their neighbor’s solar panel. As news spreads, the shine of good-citizen-solar is going to tarnish fast, but it is going to take a concerted campaign to spread the word.

In one corner are 2 million households which have solar PV and thought they paid for it themselves. In the other corner are 7.5 million households which have exorbitant electricity bills. And in every corner and all across the spectrum is mass confusion thanks to the mass media.

The fog of advertisements disguised as “news” means if you ask a dumb-enough-question 70% of Australians will say they want the government to set a high RET target to make electricity cheaper. It’s almost like 2 out of 3 people think we need the government to force us to buy cheap stuff, because everyone would buy the “expensive” planet killing volts if we only had the choice. Duh.

That’s $200 per household (and the rest!) added to the electricity bill in 2019
This is just the direct SRES (Small Renewable Energy Scheme) cost. It doesn’t cover the burden of stabilizing the grid, of covering the cost of baseload power sitting around waiting for when solar users need it.

Unreliable power makes the whole system less efficient, costs go up and all the cheap electricity generators have to charge higher prices too (at least, the ones it doesn’t drive out of business). Then there are the price spikes — so wild they make these subsidies look cheap.

Households’ $2bn hit for solar roof panel subsidies
Perry Williams, The Australian

Households will pay nearly $2 billion for rooftop solar installation subsidies this year, costing every home nearly $200 and threatening to derail Scott Morrison’s pledge to cut power bills.

The cost of the federal Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme (SRES) and state-based rebates combined is forecast to rise by 45 per cent from $1.2bn last year to $1.74bn this year.

However, analysis of the cost of small-scale technology certificates, which are handed to consumers installing solar panels and then bought back by electricity ­retailers, shows a soaring cost for all power users.

How’s this for confusion?
Energy companies say the subsidy is 15% of the bill, but the Minister says it is just 3%. We don’t even know what the cost is. Therein lies a free-market disaster. How is anyone supposed to make sensible decisions?

Origin Energy ­revealed last year that the government’s SRES and state-based solar feed-in tariffs accounted for up to 15 per cent of bill charges.

Mr Taylor, the Energy Minister, said the cost of small-scale technology certificates — created to increase the incentive to install rooftop solar — was just 3 per cent of an average household bill.

Big energy blames big government and big government blames the big energy companies and in a way they’re both right. The big energy companies are playing the market for profits, but big government is screwing the people for power — selling “green electrons” at the election to win seats.

The Liberals are tossing away their best proven election winning advantage. They won’t win votes by aiming for the empty dead centre. The killer comments and lines are left on the cutting room floor.

They can’t show what fools the Labor Green candidates are while they try to be better managed fools themselves.

Just call it quits on the Solar PV subsidy — save householders $200 this year, and even more the year after that.

But read the comments at The Australian. Even at the most informed masthead in the nation many people have no clue.

Sawdust
I pay 28c per kWh for electricity I use from the grid. I get 11c per kWh for electricity my solar panels feed into the grid. Tell me again how I am costing other users money?

The only clever thing about renewable energy is the way the true cost is hidden.



http://joannenova.com.au/2019/02/solar-subsidy-death-spiral-2-billion-in-australia-rising-50-pa-as-electricity-prices-go-crazy/

SA is reaping the rewards of its foolish Greeny foolhardiness. Is the sun setting on all those futile home solar systems wrecking the power network ?



Solar Owners worried Big Brother AEMO wants to turn off their panels at noon in emergencies
May 22nd, 2020

Last November at lunchtime 64% of the entire generation of South Australia was coming from across thousands of small generators that the Grid Managers had no control of, and that clouds could wipe out. This is the junk conglomerate infrastructure that billions of dollars in forced subsidies have created.

The AEMO (Australian Energy Market Operator) has no control over the vagaries of two-thirds of the electricity generation. Audrey Zibelmen has described it as “”It’s almost like driving without your headlights.” She wants new panels to get “smart inverters” which means they can be dumb servants — controlled by the AEMO, just in case there is an emergency — lest the state suffer another System Black. They also want old panels to get the new style inverters when the next replacement is due.

Who could have seen that coming (only anyone with an engineering degree).

Poor solar home owners are feeling pretty miffed. They didn’t realize their panels were never economic, a burden on the grid, and they’ve been riding on the backs of fellow Australians for years. And after reading this ABC story (below), they still won’t know. So it’s a complete surprise to them that the green electrons they produce are expensive and unwanted, and so useless — worse than useless — the Energy Market Operator wants to have the power to turn them off at their peak time of day.

Craig Kelly M.P. has a much better plan. He thinks if China can cancel our barley because of alleged subsidies that don’t exist, we ought to axe the subsidies that do exist for the Chinese solar panels and save that $1.7billion dollars a year which hapless Australian electricity consumers are forced to cover installation costs of.

Concerns over plan to switch off household solar panels when grid is unstable
Ange Donnellan ABC

Thanasis Avramis has been an advocate of solar panels since he had them installed in 2008.   “In the last 12 years we’ve probably earned about $9,000 worth of feed-in tariff. That’s been a very substantial reduction in the cost of our electricity,” Mr Avramis told 7.30.

Thanasis is not happy and blames the regulator and the network. He says it would make “Australian families pay for the mistakes of others”. Which would be not much different to his solar panels where Australian families pay for him to get cheaper electricity.

Since 2010, the number of panels across the nation has grown from 100,000 to 2.2 million.

But the proliferation is at times leading to grid instability, prompting the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) to call for the switch-off measure.

AEMO CEO Audrey Zibelman said it would only be used in emergencies

When we have way too much solar there’s so little load we can’t even manage to keep the balance with the generators, and in that context there’s always a risk that the system could fail and will go black.”

ABC advertising writers (called journalists) manage to find a quasi industry spokesman to say exactly what the ABC staff want to hear — including his own big conspiracy theory:

Energy analyst Bruce Mountain said solar helped keep prices down.

When Australia had only 100,000 solar panels wholesale prices were $35 per megawatt hour. Now that we have two million, we pay $80. That’s not the kind of “down” most people are thinking of.

He is worried that once the ability to switch off solar systems is added, there could be pressure to externally control them more regularly.

“The threat lies not with the market operator, but the control mechanisms that they establish may well be taken advantage of by other forces who want to throttle back rooftop solar to look after their own commercial interests,” he told 7.30.

Bruce Mountain is director of the Victoria Energy Policy Centre (VEPC). He is in a sense, a de facto employee of The Victorian Government, an entity that benefits from renewables propaganda.

All those new “smart inverters” — add them to the bill for solar power.

Handy questions journalists could’ve asked
Is there any country around the world which has a high penetration of intermittent renewables and cheap electricity? Name them…
If renewables are so cheap, why is China secretly building more coal power plants?
Australian electricity wholesale costs were around $30 per MWh for years on the national grid, then we added 2 million solar panels. Shouldn’t the prices have gone down?

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/solar-owners-worried-big-brother-aemo-wants-to-turn-off-their-panels-at-noon-in-emergencies/

Being charged to send power to the grid for other's (like freeloaders) to use.

Gotta be the biggest dumbest SCAM out there.  ;D ;D ;D

juliar wrote on Jul 17^th, 2020 at 7:40pm:

Oh dear won't the home solar Fans be annoyed!! A house with solar creates a high voltage on the mains that damages appliances in neighboring houses.

Typical brain dead LNP propaganda. FYI All of the PV inverters cut out above a certain voltage so any mains over voltage is most likely a consequence of your privatization racket :(

Jasin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 9:09am:

Being charged to send power to the grid for other's (like freeloaders) to use. Gotta be the biggest dumbest SCAM out there.  ;D ;D ;D

The scam is where is the difference between the feed in rate and the retail rate going to ??? Which scumbags are getting it and to do what ?? Maybe socko can enlighten us ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

The scam is where is the difference between the feed in rate and the retail rate going to ???

Maybe the fossil fuel companies to keep the generators going as backup.  ;)

lee wrote on Aug 8^th, 2020 at 2:13pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8th, 2020 at 1:58pm: The scam is where is the difference between the feed in rate and the retail rate going to ??? Maybe the fossil fuel companies to keep the generators going as backup.  ;)

So the fossil fool industry is being subsidized by renewables. Who would have thought of that :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8^th, 2020 at 5:02pm:

lee wrote on Aug 8th, 2020 at 2:13pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8th, 2020 at 1:58pm: The scam is where is the difference between the feed in rate and the retail rate going to ??? Maybe the fossil fuel companies to keep the generators going as backup.  ;) So the fossil fool industry is being subsidized by renewables. Who would have thought of that :D LOL

;D Good turn back.

I believe the retailers get it. They sell the power to us and pay the feed in tariff. Different retailers pay different feed in tariffs. I believe, based on last I looked, AGL pay the highest, up to 20c/kWh, but I would not go with them/support them because of their fracking.

I'm currently with Red Energy, Snowy scheme. I'm a shareholder in Enova and they are installing a community battery but their feed in is not good. I'll just see how things go balancing FIT and renewable/carbon policy. We produce more than we use and it's winter, yet to see how it goes as days get longer.

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8^th, 2020 at 5:02pm:

So the fossil fool industry is being subsidized by renewables. Who would have thought of that Cheesy LOL

Ah you thought the fossil fuel generators provided backup to Weather Dependent Power supply out of the kindness of their hearts??  You know for when the sun don't shine or when the wind don't blow or blows too hard. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

However the Weather Dependent Power people get paid whether they are producing or not. ;)

Two weeks of winter patchy solar results on the last 90 day bill. With govt handouts yo keep the economy ticking over, this has cost us $0. You go tradies, I might have some more work for you. I'm going to have an awning built on over the northern aspect of the house with another four panels as the shading. This will shade the kitchen and the sleepout and reduce heat of direct sunlight into the house and produce an additional potential 1.2kWh.

Edit: To be totally honest, the last bill was "estimated" and may be a reasonable part of the reduction since the installation of the smart meter as it was $50 more than usual. Even taking that into consideration you can see the benefits. With patchy cloud today it produced 15.3kWh and our usage averages 9. As days get longer and the sun gets higher this is going to improve greatly. There is a big gum tree that shades both banks of panels between 8 and 10 am in the neighbours yard when I would expect output to be maximised. I'm looking at having it trimmed.

---

All those nasty selfish Solar Fans causing chaos in the network and costing decent people heaps. Shame on them!!!

juliar wrote on Aug 10^th, 2020 at 8:03pm:

All those nasty selfish Solar Fans causing chaos in the network and costing decent people heaps. Shame on them!!!

I haven't heard of any chaos in the NSW energy system, can you enlighten us? In the meantime, I'm enjoying my roof sucking up the solar radiation and offsetting the 18c@kWh I pay at night with an 11c@kWh FIT during the day, it's also an extra layer of insulation for the coming summer along with the solar hot water system. It's just unfortunate my roof is not bigger. Perhaps you can get yourself some with your pay per post and jobkeeper money.

Nothing like a Solar Fan believing in the ever more. Thy are so selfish without a care about the problems they are causing in the electric network.

juliar wrote on Aug 10^th, 2020 at 8:36pm:

Nothing like a Solar Fan believing in the ever more. Thy are so selfish without a care about the problems they are causing in the electric network.

So no evidence of chaos in the NSW network?

It is there but the Solar Fans just look the other way.

Of course the actual technical things that are occurring would be beyond the grasp of the Solar Fans. And they just don't know or care.

Batteries: Another green scam
By Viv Forbes March 29, 2017

Every day, some green energy promoter or a battery salesman tells us how green energy with battery backup will supply Australia's future electricity needs.

A battery stores energy.  Energy can be stored using lead acid, nickel-cadmium, lithium, molten salt, pumped hydro, hydrogen, flywheels, compressed air, or some other smart gizmo.  But not one battery produces new energy – they simply store and discharge energy produced by other means.  They all deliver less energy than they consume.  Moreover, to manufacture, charge, use, and dispose of batteries consumes energy and resources.

The idea of producing reliable grid power from intermittent green energy backed up by batteries looks possible in green doodle-diagrams, but it would be absurdly inefficient and expensive.

Solar works a six-hour day
Consider a solar panel rated to collect, say, 100 units of energy per day at full capacity, in full mid-day sunlight, with a clean panel, properly aligned to face the sun.

No solar energy arrives overnight, and only minimal amounts arrive during the three hours after dawn or before dusk.  That means that solar energy can be collected for only about six hours per day, providing it is not cloudy, raining, or snowing.  No amount of research or regulation will change this.  The solar energy union works only a six-hour day and takes quite a few sickies.  So instead of feeding 100 units of energy per day into the grid, at best, the panel supplies just 25 units.

Can the addition of batteries give us 24/7 power from solar?

To deliver 100 units of energy in 24 hours will require an extra 75 units of energy to be collected, stored, and delivered by the batteries every sunny day.  This will require another three solar units devoted solely to recharging batteries in just six sunny hours.

Cloudy and wet days are what really expose the problems of solar plus batteries.  (This is why isolated green power systems must have a diesel generator in the shed.)

To insure against, say, seven days of cloudy weather would require a solar-battery system capable of collecting and storing 700 units of energy while still delivering 100 units to consumers every day.  However, if several consecutive weeks of sunny weather then occur, this bloated system is capable of delivering seven times more power than needed, causing power prices to plunge, driving reliable generators out of business, and wasting the life of solar panels producing unwanted electricity.

Solar energy obviously does best in sunny equatorial deserts, but that is not where most people live.  And the huge Desertec Solar Power Dream for the northern Sahara has failed.

The report card on wind energy is different but equally depressing.
When Australia had reliable, predictable coal-gas-hydro power in every state, the need for heavy interstate transmission was minimal.  But green power will require robust and costly interstate transmission facilities to send large amounts of power at short notice from sunny coal-rich Queensland to cloudy Victoria, windless South Australia, or droughted Tasmania.

Playing Snakes and Ladders with Australia's electricity supply
We are told that wind and solar plus pumped water storage will provide adequate grid power.  Unfortunately, those huge hydro-pumps need steady continuous power – something not provided by intermittent green energy.  So are politicians planning to install huge chemical batteries or diesel motors to steadily recharge the elevated water storages in order to get back less energy than was consumed by the pumps?

Both wind and solar are unpredictable, unreliable, intermittent, and weather-dependent energy sources.  They require large collection areas with a cobweb of access roads and transmission lines.  Their output can change suddenly and cannot be managed easily to meet demand fluctuations.  They need flexible backup power able to swing in quickly to maintain stability and supply.

Gas provides the easiest back-up for green energy, but gas exploration is banned in many areas of NSW, SAust, and the whole of gas-rich Victoria.  Canny residents of the green states are now investing in diesel generators.

The perfect solar battery
Mother Earth has already given us the perfect solar battery for long-term storage of energy.  It is called "coal."  Solar power from sunlight is converted by photosynthesis into wood, and thence into coal for high-density long-term solar energy storage.  The downside to this system is that it has tied up large quantities of carbon that is therefore unavailable to the natural world.  The upside is that releasing the energy from coal also releases life-giving CO2 back into the biosphere, where it belongs.

Our growing energy crisis was caused by political interference.  Australian politicians have not learned last century's lessons of central planning in the comrade societies.

Read on about the futility of renewables.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/03/batteries_another_green_scam.html

Quote:

“Governments are really thinking about how are we going to get people who buy electric vehicles to contribute to road funding,”

Wink Wink - hey

Thought this was the funniest one. As if petrol tax does anything for road funding.

Dnarever wrote on Aug 11^th, 2020 at 11:49pm:

Thought this was the funniest one. As if petrol tax does anything for road funding.

Yes it just goes into the general pool and the states get funded out of the general pool. You have heard of the Grants Commission?

The owners of dead end dud unsafe electric cars will be hit with a distance tax, a pollution tax, and much higher recharge costs.

Not to mention much higher insurance costs as it is more widely recognized how dangerous these battery powered things really are.

Hydrogen powered tow trucks will be pulling these abandoned obsolescent piles of electric junk into scrap yards everywhere.


https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ixr91.J5AUCo/v0/800x-1.jpg

Julia keeps his whining going no matter the cost to his reputation. There has been no problems with QLD. NSW, VIC with solar power. We are far from what WA and SA experience because we are so interconnected, it's a huge land mass and power is sent to where it's needed. The problem for SA and WA is interconnectedness. In the mean time, I'm producing 2x the power I use. At the same time I have install LED lighting everywhere and use less power than 12 months ago.

I pay $30 a month for Electricity.
It's much like a Phone Plan. :D

Jasin wrote on Aug 21^st, 2020 at 7:17am:

I pay $30 a month for Electricity. It's much like a Phone Plan. :D

I'm guessing my next bill will be similar. Last quarterly bill was $147 with a few weeks of solar. I'm yet to find out if the power fed back will pay for fixed connection fees etc. Not sure how that works at this stage. Whether it's only electricity or if it's off the whole bill. Anyone out there with solar that has info, I'm all ears.

Setanta wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2020 at 8:54pm:

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2020 at 7:17am: I pay $30 a month for Electricity. It's much like a Phone Plan. :D I'm guessing my next bill will be similar. Last quarterly bill was $147 with a few weeks of solar. I'm yet to find out if the power fed back will pay for fixed connection fees etc. Not sure how that works at this stage. Whether it's only electricity or if it's off the whole bill. Anyone out there with solar that has info, I'm all ears.

Solar's really good. Our power bills are negligible.
If yours is a new system it will be much better than ours
Almost any shading will reduce the output greatly.

It needs no maintenance.
Keep a very casual eye on the inverter. It is fails you won't know till the next bill.
I saw mine had failed about 3 weeks from the end of a 5 year warranty !
Had I first noticed that 5 weeks later there would have been no warranty claim.

Solar's great.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2020 at 2:53am:

Setanta wrote on Aug 22nd, 2020 at 8:54pm: Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2020 at 7:17am: I pay $30 a month for Electricity. It's much like a Phone Plan. :D I'm guessing my next bill will be similar. Last quarterly bill was $147 with a few weeks of solar. I'm yet to find out if the power fed back will pay for fixed connection fees etc. Not sure how that works at this stage. Whether it's only electricity or if it's off the whole bill. Anyone out there with solar that has info, I'm all ears. Solar's really good. Our power bills are negligible. If yours is a new system it will be much better than ours Almost any shading will reduce the output greatly. It needs no maintenance. Keep a very casual eye on the inverter. It is fails you won't know till the next bill. I saw mine had failed about 3 weeks from the end of a 5 year warranty ! Had I first noticed that 5 weeks later there would have been no warranty claim. Solar's great.

I'm guessing the novelty will wear off but I'm watching the output every day. The next quarterly bill should do me as it's a winter/spring bill and the first quarter on full solar. I'll be interested to see if connection fees are reduced/paid for or if we are just credited for electricity. I don't know how it works at this stage. On a positive note, today has been the first day we have doubled our daily average usage. Our average usage is 9kWh@day and we generated 19kWh.

Expect Juliar crying any minute now.

The Solar Fan Boys and Girls are living in an illusion of thinking how wonderful they are.

The TRUTH is there are now so many home solars it is affecting the integrity of the primary power network with uncontrolled excessive power during a few hours at midday and causing excessive voltage on the mains which damages home appliances.

The power companies will no longer pay for this useless excess power and they need the facility to disconnect home solars from the mains as required to protect the integrity of the network.

Of course the technical explanation for this is way above the heads of the Solar Fans.

The future solution will be big hydrogen energy storage systems to store the excess energy of both solar and wind as required.

These hydrogen energy systems will be very big and will store days of energy.

Compare this to the silly white elephant battery in SA which stores only seconds of energy.

Of course the Solar Fans will sneer and mock and knock as they try to hide their lack of understanding.

Now to totally lose the Solar Fans in a view of the FUTURE:-

https://i.postimg.cc/FsVXKcDZ/south-australias-hydrogen-action-plan-online-4.png
The future Hydrogen system

And read all about it as it happens in South Australia here

https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-unveils-plans-for-100-renewable-hydrogen-economy-58723/

juliar wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2020 at 10:31pm:

The Solar Fan Boys and Girls are living in an illusion of thinking how wonderful they are. The TRUTH is there are now so many home solars it is affecting the integrity of the primary power network with uncontrolled excessive power during a few hours at midday and causing excessive voltage on the mains which damages home appliances. The power companies will no longer pay for this useless excess power and they need the facility to disconnect home solars from the mains as required to protect the integrity of the network. Of course the technical explanation for this is way above the heads of the Solar Fans. The future solution will be big hydrogen energy storage systems to store the excess energy of both solar and wind as required. These hydrogen energy systems will be very big and will store days of energy. Compare this to the silly white elephant battery in SA which stores only seconds of energy. Of course the Solar Fans will sneer and mock and knock as they try to hide their lack of understanding. Now to totally lose the Solar Fans in a view of the FUTURE:- https://i.postimg.cc/FsVXKcDZ/south-australias-hydrogen-action-plan-online-4.png The future Hydrogen system And read all about it as it happens in South Australia here https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-unveils-plans-for-100-renewable-hydrogen-economy-58723/

If you look on the left hand side of that pic you posted Juliar, what energy source do you see making hydrogen? The dreaded renewables?

Oh Setty, have you been living in a cave.

Of course the otherwise useless renewable stuff is used to drive the electrolyzers to generate Hydrogen.

The hydrogen electrolyzers don't mind unreliable erratic renewable power.

juliar wrote on Aug 28^th, 2020 at 2:40am:

Oh Setty, have you been living in a cave. Of course the otherwise useless renewable stuff is used to drive the electrolyzers to generate Hydrogen. The hydrogen electrolyzers don't mind unreliable erratic renewable power.

Sounds like you're in favour of renewables then.

Now BH don't step into the renewable quick sand.

Hydrogen production by electrolysis will save otherwise useless renewable stuff by using the erratic unreliable "energy" from renewables to generate hydrogen, the future of energy in Australia.

https://i1.wp.com/www.omanobserver.om/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1338690.jpg
Australia's future hydrogen economy

Hydrogen will be exported to Japan and South Korea as ammonia which is easy to transport.


One does wonder sometimes where the water will come from in any remote area.

Cool, soi since we want to generate hydrogen without carbon dioxide production, you are indeed favouring renewables.


Damn socialist greeny juliar.

BH I am so glad you are convinced.

And just in case.....

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0f/19/cd/0f19cd27f3e6fd7dc7246086ff4b80b2.png

If I can return it, do you know why theres a frequent need to urinate in hyperglycaemia?

Well Doctor,

According to Dr Google:-

When blood glucose levels (also called blood sugar levels) are too high, it's called hyperglycemia.

Signs & Symptoms of Hyperglycemia
The symptoms of hyperglycemia are similar to those that happen when someone is diagnosed with diabetes, such as:

Frequent urination: The kidneys respond to high levels of glucose in the bloodstream by flushing out the extra glucose in urine (pee). A child with diabetes who has hyperglycemia may need to pee more often and in larger volumes.

Extreme thirst: Kids with hyperglycemia who lose a lot of fluid from urinating often become very thirsty and may drink a lot in an attempt to prevent dehydration.

Weight loss despite increased appetite: Without enough insulin to help the body use glucose, the body breaks down muscle and stored fat in an attempt to provide fuel to hungry cells.

Fatigue: Because the body can't use glucose for energy properly, kids with hyperglycemia may be unusually tired.

https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/hyperglycemia.html



Why does diabetes make me urinate more often?

ANSWER:-
Normally your body reabsorbs glucose as it passes through your kidneys, but when diabetes raises your blood sugar, your kidneys may not be able to bring it all back in. This causes the body to make more urine. Because you're urinating so much, you can get thirsty. When you drink more, you'll also urinate more.

Why does diabetes make me urinate more often?

ANSWER:-
Normally your body reabsorbs glucose as it passes through your kidneys, but when diabetes raises your blood sugar, your kidneys may not be able to bring it all back in. This causes the body to make more urine. Because you're urinating so much, you can get thirsty. When you drink more, you'll also urinate more.






If this was a 2 mark question you'd get 1/2 markl. Why does the body make more urine

When there's extra sugar in the blood, the body siphons fluid from tissues in the body to help remove it. The excess sugar is filtered by the kidneys, which pulls water with it into the urine, leading to polyuria.

Excessive thirst and increased urination are common diabetes signs and symptoms. When you have diabetes, excess glucose — a type of sugar — builds up in your blood. Your kidneys are forced to work overtime to filter and absorb the excess glucose.

When your kidneys can't keep up, the excess glucose is excreted into your urine, dragging along fluids from your tissues, which makes you dehydrated. This will usually leave you feeling thirsty. As you drink more fluids to quench your thirst, you'll urinate even more.

...

---

While home solar is becoming a dead end solar farms are still going strong for a few hours a day.


NT solar export project to create 'thousands of jobs'
27/08/2020

Technology Editor at the Australian David Swan says a new renewable energy project by Sun Cable will “create thousands of jobs and potentially create billions of dollars worth of investment in the economy”.

Sun Cable’s billion-dollar venture, backed by two of Australia’s richest people, Mike Cannon-Brookes and Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest, will build a 10-gigawatt solar array in the Northern Territory and send power to Singapore via an undersea cable.

“The work is already started and they reckon they will get it finished by 2023,” Mr Swan told Sky News.

“That one is going to absolutely huge and I think they are the sorts of projects that we should get behind.”

Forward Slash is presented by The Australian in partnership with IBM.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6184836250001


https://i.postimg.cc/fbWtFx1W/2-1.png

https://construction-property.com/australia-to-sell-solar-power-to-singapore-via-undersea-cables/

Would members be so kind as to take a peek at their power bill and post...


Service to property charge  - cents@day
Peak Power    -  cents@kWh
Shoulder       -  cents@kWh
Off Peak        -  cents@kWh
Controlled load   -  cents@kWh
And if they have solar the FiT - cents@kWh

I'm guessing this will be different in different states but I'm trying to get a picture of what people pay/what are reasonable costs.

Here is my current power...

Electricity Charges Charges based on actual read
Your Plan Time of Use Solar (Ref:C1) NMI 44071984209
From 08 July 2020 to 17 July 2020 (10 days)
Total Solar* 700623323:1 0 65 65 -11.100 $7.22 Cr
Total Peak 700623323:2 0 11 11 33.800 $3.72
Total Shoulder 700623323:3 0 7 7 32.000 $2.24
Total Off Peak 700623323:4 0 26 26 18.900 $4.91
Total CL1 700623323:5 0 16 16 13.100 $2.10
Service to Property Charge 10 days $1.430 /day $14.30

Got our first power bill with solar feed back through the entire period covering 46 days  = $12.49. Solar FIT for that period $79.32.

I'm happy. :)

$8.35 of the $12.49 was GST.

My power bills have been $0 for the past 6 months and will continue to be $0 for about the next 12 months thanks to our WA State government's $300 "EAP Boost Payment" and now another $600 per household from the Bell Resources litigation payout. 8-)

Oh, where's juliar? Haven't seen him for ages. I'm missing my daily "entertainment".  ;D ::)

Carl D wrote on Nov 19^th, 2020 at 4:34pm:

My power bills have been $0 for the past 6 months and will continue to be $0 for about the next 12 months thanks to our WA State government's $300 "EAP Boost Payment" and now another $600 per household from the Bell Resources litigation payout. 8-) Oh, where's juliar? Haven't seen him for ages. I'm missing my daily "entertainment".  ;D ::)

Lucky lad! The lowest of those, the $300 would see mine at zero for 12 months.

I don't know, maybe he got the boot from the LNPCo paid per post pool when the subsidies were cut. I won't miss him and I'm sure that won't be a minority of one view.

Setanta wrote on Nov 19^th, 2020 at 4:12pm:

Got our first power bill with solar feed back through the entire period covering 46 days  = $12.49. Solar FIT for that period $79.32. I'm happy. :) $8.35 of the $12.49 was GST.

who are you with?

My last bill came in at $30 .. but only after I swapped to Energy Australia. I thing EA gave me $50 discount on that bill because I was a new customer. Even without that, it would still have been much better than when I was with Origin.

When I was with origin, my bill pre-solar were $600- $700, and then after I got the panels they dropped to $280 - $300 ... origin were ripping me off the wankers

John Smith wrote on Nov 19^th, 2020 at 4:57pm:

Setanta wrote on Nov 19th, 2020 at 4:12pm: Got our first power bill with solar feed back through the entire period covering 46 days  = $12.49. Solar FIT for that period $79.32. I'm happy. :) $8.35 of the $12.49 was GST. who are you with? My last bill came in at $30 .. but only after I swapped to Energy Australia. I thing EA gave me $50 discount on that bill because I was a new customer. Even without that, it would still have been much better than when I was with Origin. When I was with origin, my bill pre-solar were $600- $700, and then after I got the panels they dropped to $280 - $300 ... origin were ripping me off the wankers

We were with Red and the fit was 11.1ckWh(better than now- 10c) and I wasn't unhappy with them but I changed to another Au owned company that offsets carbon, small I think. Energy Locals.

It's the first bill with them so I'll see how they go.

Johnnie wrote on Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:20pm:

The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet.

Agreed.

We already have a system here, which is battery-backed. The house runs off PV during the day, while the inverter also charges the battery. Depnding on the time of year, the battery is usually charged by midday or earlier.

Then, the battery runs the house through most of the night.

Next time we do such a system, it will be better-sized so that:

1) There is more battery, so that the house is almost entirely self-sufficient,

2) The excess is entirely consumed (both to charge the additional battery/batteries, AND power the HWS via an appliance relay or similar.

Ideally, we'd want to consume every watt of electricity we produce, and (almost) never tap the grid for any.

On the stuff linked above - esp. this bit
Quote:

The reason for this is largely to do with the rampant popularity of rooftop solar, which accounts for more than 1200MW of capacity and is easily the biggest single source of generation in the system.

There's an argument that the existing "players" within the system (Generators, Transmitters and Retailers are trying to protect a business model now being threatened by "alternatives".

Fact is, they "gold plated" the Poles and Wires over many years, and charged all tht to the consumer. Prices rose. Home solar became viable, and people adopted it. Retail electricity prices rose. More people took up solar. Prices rose (again). And they continue.

People will continue to move away from the grid, as solar and - particularly battery - tech. gets cheaper.

Those who remain wholly and solely grid-connected will continue to pay more and more, to make up the revenue shortfall createde when people go "off grid' (or vastly reduce theur reliance on it).

There will come a tipping point, where the business  model of the current operators will, shall we say, be "challenged".

Not before time, frankly.